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More shats!
02-26-2009, 03:03 PM
2. Shawn Marion, Raptors
Marion is a super-talented forward who can score, defend and rebound. But he turns 31 in May and has seen his production slip the past two years. Even if he starts putting up big numbers in Toronto, how much will a team be willing to spend on him given his age and reputation for being difficult? The Raptors seem to be his best chance of landing more than a midlevel deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=09FreeAgents-090226

Good article go check it out.

Frank Costanza
02-26-2009, 03:09 PM
liking the fact that most teams prolly wouldnt outbid us

Bob_at_york
02-26-2009, 03:19 PM
makes you wonder... if we aren't attached to both Marion and Parker could we let their rights go and use the cap space to sign two of the guys. They claim a lot of them would probably be had for the MLE, we could pay them 8 mil each probably if we ditch the existing guys rights.

More shats!
02-26-2009, 03:28 PM
makes you wonder... if we aren't attached to both Marion and Parker could we let their rights go and use the cap space to sign two of the guys. They claim a lot of them would probably be had for the MLE, we could pay them 8 mil each probably if we ditch the existing guys rights.

That is a big risk to take and you lose the MLE and the rights to make sign and trades with them if you do it.I rather sign all of our guys or look to make sign and trade with them.

CB4real
02-26-2009, 03:30 PM
we have a lot of potential to turn this ship around with almost 25 mill in the offseason to use, if the cap stays fixed. That's enough to do some dammage. If you get Marion for under 10 mill, then you have 15 mill to spend on a Gordon, Iverson, Artest, or any combo of 2 or 3 bench players, Charlie V, Desmond Mason or even Davis from Boston. That's a big upgrade from this year.

Bob_at_york
02-26-2009, 03:31 PM
That is a big risk to take and you lose the MLE and the rights to make sign and trades with them if you do it.I rather sign all of our guys or look to make sign and trade with them.

Yes, it is a risk but I am unsure how losing the MLE would be a factor. If we have the MLE and so do 16 playoff teams, which team do you think PLAYER A is going to choose?

More shats!
02-26-2009, 03:41 PM
Yes, it is a risk but I am unsure how losing the MLE would be a factor. If we have the MLE and so do 16 playoff teams, which team do you think PLAYER A is going to choose?

Not every team uses or have the MLE every year, we made the Playoffs last year and BC dint use or have MLE(Cant remember).The MLE is a good thing to have and a lot of good players could be had with the MLE.You say Player A may choose the playoffs team over us, but wining is not everything for players maybe Player A wants more playing time to go along with the money you never know, and how many teams use the MLE last year?I dont think a lot did.

I dont see how giving away the rights of Marion and Parker to take a big risk is a good thing.You keep them or do sign and trades with them to get value back.

Macedonian
02-26-2009, 03:44 PM
1. Ben Gordon
2. Shawn Marion

Are we capable (with our cap space) to sign both players?

snow22
02-26-2009, 03:46 PM
1. Ben Gordon
2. Shawn Marion

Are we capable (with our cap space) to sign both players?

we would be sick if we could

deaner
02-26-2009, 03:50 PM
frank has a feeling this summer is going to be good to the raps. Frank is glad we have lots of expiring money at a point when most teams will be trying to shed for the new cap and financial state. Frank thinks we can pick up 3 solid players with the 17m. 17 is going to be more like 27m in value frank thinks.

KJK
02-26-2009, 03:52 PM
I think I'm the only one that has no desire to sign BG this summer.

JermanJaysFan
02-26-2009, 03:54 PM
I think I'm the only one that has no desire to sign BG this summer.

I wouldn't say "no desire", but I am wary.

C_Mund
02-26-2009, 03:55 PM
No you're not. I hate watching Gordon play.

Bob_at_york
02-26-2009, 04:05 PM
1. Ben Gordon
2. Shawn Marion

Are we capable (with our cap space) to sign both players?

No, probably not.

More shats!
02-26-2009, 04:07 PM
frank has a feeling this summer is going to be good to the raps. Frank is glad we have lots of expiring money at a point when most teams will be trying to shed for the new cap and financial state. Frank thinks we can pick up 3 solid players with the 17m. 17 is going to be more like 27m in value frank thinks.

Why is Deaner speaking for Frank?

Bob_at_york
02-26-2009, 04:07 PM
Not every team uses or have the MLE every year, we made the Playoffs last year and BC dint use or have MLE(Cant remember).The MLE is a good thing to have and a lot of good players could be had with the MLE.You say Player A may choose the playoffs team over us, but wining is not everything for players maybe Player A wants more playing time to go along with the money you never know, and how many teams use the MLE last year?I dont think a lot did.

I dont see how giving away the rights of Marion and Parker to take a big risk is a good thing.You keep them or do sign and trades with them to get value back.
I am not sure if anything would come from a S&T when guys like Artest, AI and Bibby could be available for the MLE. Also with so few teams wanting to spend the market will dictate that a lot of the guys on that list could get the MLE. IF that is all they can get... are you telling me that there isn't a team in the league who would pay the MLE for AI?

LD V2.0
02-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Wow, maybe I've overestimated his dollar value. The Raptors the only team to bid over the MLE? That's good news to me.

More shats!
02-26-2009, 04:23 PM
I am not sure if anything would come from a S&T when guys like Artest, AI and Bibby could be available for the MLE. Also with so few teams wanting to spend the market will dictate that a lot of the guys on that list could get the MLE. IF that is all they can get... are you telling me that there isn't a team in the league who would pay the MLE for AI?


AI has taken a big hit in the past couple of years i could see a veteran team like the Spurs or Celtics or any other team that has championship aspirations going after him but i dont see BC even offering AI a contract.So AI does not have any saying in what we are going to do this summer.

So let me get this straight,You want to give away the rights of our Staring Shooting Guard and Staring Small Foward because you assume some of those guys in the article can be had by the MLE?Because of that you want to give 8mill per year to 2 players you dint name?.You are forgetting that teams can work sign and trades with them and they could make even more money.We could actualy be the team on the reciving end of the sign and trade of one of those guys and we dont have to give up our assets to sign them.

Bob_at_york
02-26-2009, 04:25 PM
Wow, maybe I've overestimated his dollar value. The Raptors the only team to bid over the MLE? That's good news to me.
I am with you. I didn't think teams would be this thifty. The amount of guys he was predicting would go for the MLE is amazing. If you break it down I think it goes like this:

Hawks - Have cap space but also have Marvin and Bibby to re-sign. They could go after a FA PG or maybe AI?
Detroit - Will let AI go. Could be players for FA pgs and for big men. Both of which we aren't really looking for. Probably Boozer.
Memphis - They probably will get a FA pg. Maybe a big man too like Boozer. Matrix if they want to run.
OKC - Big men. They probably want big men. That is assuming they spend ANY money.

That leaves a lot of free agent swingman available. Now Hedo will probably re-sign with the Magic but the Bulls don't want Ben back. One of the lakers guys will be available.

Frank Costanza
02-26-2009, 04:42 PM
frank has a feeling this summer is going to be good to the raps. Frank is glad we have lots of expiring money at a point when most teams will be trying to shed for the new cap and financial state. Frank thinks we can pick up 3 solid players with the 17m. 17 is going to be more like 27m in value frank thinks.

Frank didnt authorize deaner to say any of those comments but deaner knows frank well and you all prolly do know that frank does belive the summer will be good for the raps and that the money we have will be spent on big name guys, and that with most teams waiting for 2010 we can take advantage of this summer,

deaner was mistaken in that frank doesnt think we net 3 big guys, 1 big guy, 1 middle teir and one as jack armstong says "dude" to bring grit to the bench

RaptorsFanatic
02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
Why does Frank type like that? Cant you type normally...lol...without using your name as the subject of the sentence. It sounds like your 2 years old...no offense home boy.

thecure
02-26-2009, 05:19 PM
If the Raps can't keep Marion... There will be serious repercussions.
For the good...He hates a half court offense, Toronto is one of the few teams "running" and with the space to sign him.
The bad...Already talkin' smack about the weather...he's only been here a couple of cold days...not very professional...not like Bosh, the ultimate pro...wonder how a kid from Texas really feels about T-Dot the chilly?
I really believe that Marion is the only UFA that truly helps the Raps progress.

More shats!
02-26-2009, 05:26 PM
4. Anderson Varejao, Cavs (PO)
Varejao is another player who is quite likely to opt out. The relationship between Cavs GM Danny Ferry and Varejao's agent, Dan Fegan, is rocky. I think Fegan will try to get him moved to a team that's willing to pay him more.

Varageo would be the perfect first big off the bench and is probably going to take the full MLE.He is not a risk because you now what you are going to get from him hustle,rebounding and good defence.He is a option to look at.

mjt20mik
02-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Sign Marion for a two year - 8 mill per year deal
Sign AP for a year - 3 mill
Sign Joey G for a 1 year player option on the second - 4 mill a year
Sign Hill for a year - 2 mill
Sign Rasho for a year - 2 mill

Total 19 Million

Roster:

Bargnani / Rasho / O'Bryant
Bosh / Hump / Jawai
Marion / Hill / Joey
Parker / Kapono
Calderon / Ukic

Edit: I guess we could also place an offer to Delfino..

WaterBoy24
02-26-2009, 06:35 PM
No love for gordon...the guy is a hogg...no thanks.
His 6'1..and all he does is shoot the ball...nothing else...
Now Ron Artest is a different story..I go after him with Shawn Marion.

mjt20mik
02-26-2009, 06:40 PM
I heard this guys has a player option next season. We should try and grab him. He could be our X-Factor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXwkkZyi9k

LMFAO

Famous Quotes:

"I'll be Jackin' Jackin' my whole entire career!"

"You miss 100% of the shots you take"

More shats!
02-26-2009, 07:48 PM
I heard this guys has a player option next season. We should try and grab him. He could be our X-Factor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXwkkZyi9k

LMFAO

Famous Quotes:

"I'll be Jackin' Jackin' my whole entire career!"

"You miss 100% of the shots you take"

"I'l be a terror in the NBA for at least the next 5 years"

Mike beign Mike, got to love it.

The Wise 1
02-26-2009, 08:35 PM
Sign Marion for a two year - 8 mill per year deal
Sign AP for a year - 3 mill
Sign Joey G for a 1 year player option on the second - 4 mill a year
Sign Hill for a year - 2 mill
Sign Rasho for a year - 2 mill

Total 19 Million

Roster:

Bargnani / Rasho / O'Bryant
Bosh / Hump / Jawai
Marion / Hill / Joey
Parker / Kapono
Calderon / Ukic

Edit: I guess we could also place an offer to Delfino..

So you basically want to go into next season with the same team? I still dont think this team is good enough to win a round.

I still think a front court of Andrea and Chris are to soft to be together. If Chris isnt happy and really does want out, maybe we can find a team that will be under the cap and we can trade him straight up for a young 2 or 3 that can score. Maybe Bosh for Jeff Green. Then with the money saved we would be able to get Chandler for free, somewhat like Camby last year.

Chandler
Andrea
Green
Marion
Jose

Its not ideal but Marion and Green both have 3 point range and Marion can guard the 2's. Theres a lot of if's in there but I would rather see something like that than go into next season with the same core and same team.

VinceIsASally
02-26-2009, 09:06 PM
These are the realistic guys I would look at to strengthen our team next year:

Big Men:
Drew Gooden, Zaza Pachulia, Joe Smith, Brandon Bass

Wings:
AP, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, Grant Hill

PG:
Bobby Jackson

We are not getting AI or Artest. There is no one on this team to keep these guy's in check and without any other vets to keep them in line, these guy's could be detriments to the team. We would have to vastly overpay to get one of them anyways. Marion is the only wing player who would be impactful, for the right price. Re-signing AP at 3mil per is a must but he needs to come off the bench. Really, this team needs to solidify the SG position with a top tier player and were good to go. Kapono absolutely has to go.

Bargnani/Gooden or Pachulia/O'Bryant
Bosh/Joe Smith or Brandon Bass/Hump
Marion/Joey G
All-Star SG?/AP/Banks
Calderon/Jackson/Ukic

Pretty solid rotation with great depth. Just need to get rid of Kapono and somehow get that elite level SG. Easier said then done of course. Rip Hamilton and caron Butler are the two I see as realistic and have the potential to make us player's in the East. Again, not exactly sure how to get them but that's for BC to figure out.

GodsSon
02-26-2009, 09:18 PM
just drop everything and make a push for Kobe, then Marion and AP re-sign for the vet-minimum, and Aminu can be our 3 off the bench lol :)...in all seriousness though, I wouldnt mind signing Gordon, for all of his deficiencies (height, defence) the man can flat out fill the bucket and would be instant offence off the bench, which is something we currently do not have.

On a side note, notice the fg's for one game in that Mike James vid? 5-25 with 15 points...man thats terrible:pity:

TheHip
02-26-2009, 09:28 PM
Im also not feeling the Gordon, I would much rather spend money on marion... other than him, i really dont like a whole lot of what i see on the market...

I cant lie that if we could get marion and AI on the same team, i would... that would be some quality fast break opertunities. And AI can creat his own shot which everyone here says that we need. I think that if we can somehow get marion back and sign AI we would be a contender in the east.

Bargs
Bosh
Marion
AI
Calderon

a little weak on d maybe... but would be a dynamic offense.
probably not going to happen though... i would just like to see it.

RAPTORS.RAPTORS
02-26-2009, 10:26 PM
Im also not feeling the Gordon, I would much rather spend money on marion... other than him, i really dont like a whole lot of what i see on the market...

I cant lie that if we could get marion and AI on the same team, i would... that would be some quality fast break opertunities. And AI can creat his own shot which everyone here says that we need. I think that if we can somehow get marion back and sign AI we would be a contender in the east.

Bargs
Bosh
Marion
AI
Calderon

a little weak on d maybe... but would be a dynamic offense.
probably not going to happen though... i would just like to see it.

ew no terrible defensive team and ai playing shooting guard....

i would like to see us re sign marion and get an artest or gordon

artest- gritty good defender

gordon- good shooter, good overall

imagine this line

bargnani
bosh
marion
artest or gordon
calderon

WOAH!@1

7777777
02-26-2009, 11:46 PM
Can't stand Ben Gordon's game - volume shooter without great percentages, no defense and undersized. Not a great fit for a team that wants to run (it starts with getting stops...). AI's not the answer either.

I wonder if you could split the MLE between Von Wafer and Antonio McDyess. Wafer's a great defender, and McDyess would be reliable off the bench. Maybe $4M for Wafer and $2M for McDyess...probably not enough, but this is the right direction.

250 to 416
02-26-2009, 11:48 PM
1. Ben Gordon
2. Shawn Marion

Are we capable (with our cap space) to sign both players?

we have $24,408,858 to sign both but we loose Parker,Graham,Voskuhl Delfino&Garbaiosa come off the books to.

ramz.n
02-27-2009, 12:55 AM
Can't stand Ben Gordon's game - volume shooter without great percentages, no defense and undersized. Not a great fit for a team that wants to run (it starts with getting stops...). AI's not the answer either.

I wonder if you could split the MLE between Von Wafer and Antonio McDyess. Wafer's a great defender, and McDyess would be reliable off the bench. Maybe $4M for Wafer and $2M for McDyess...probably not enough, but this is the right direction.

hes the type of guy who would excel in a fast tempo game...so if anything he would fit well at the sg position...hes not a great defender..but hes not as bad as you might think, hes just undersized.

koreancabbage
02-27-2009, 01:17 AM
ew no terrible defensive team and ai playing shooting guard....

i would like to see us re sign marion and get an artest or gordon

artest- gritty good defender

gordon- good shooter, good overall

imagine this line

bargnani
bosh
marion
artest or gordon
calderon

WOAH!@1

WHAT? if you get Gordon, what's the difference b/w him and AI? at least you know iverson will get you steals, assists and can flat out score.

Iverson >>> Gordon

Artest would be good but is he really an uptempo type of guy? i dun think guy is known for decision making on the fly or even know for being a good finisher. I know, you bring him in for defense and all.

hey maybe it works with Artest. just speculating.

ramz.n
02-27-2009, 10:09 AM
WHAT? if you get Gordon, what's the difference b/w him and AI? at least you know iverson will get you steals, assists and can flat out score.

Iverson >>> Gordon

Artest would be good but is he really an uptempo type of guy? i dun think guy is known for decision making on the fly or even know for being a good finisher. I know, you bring him in for defense and all.

hey maybe it works with Artest. just speculating.

but AI is aging quickly and is at the end of his prime

age wise..

AI>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gordon

bartron_44
02-27-2009, 11:01 AM
I don't think AI's ego has deflated enough for us to sign him. If you are going to go after a Piston, I would go after RIP. He is a team player, has exellent size to play SG, or SF. At his age i don't think we will have to overpay for him either. I would also love to see McDyess or Maxiell in a raps uni next year too, as they are both excellent rebounders..who come from winning franchises who are familiar with what it takes in the playoffs.

HoopsDrive
02-27-2009, 11:12 AM
If you want to gun and run you don't need stoppers. Look at the Suns, they don't stop the opposition on possessions, they want you to score ASAP so they can get back to running and gunning. If your aim is for a high octane offense all you need are guys that can run the break, are athletic and have great endurance and stamina to withstand huge amounts of running through the court.

Gordon can run the break, shoot from anywhere on the floor and get to the basket easily. He may be undersized and not regarded as a defender but if you're aiming for a run and gun offense you don't really need that. If you watched the Rockets-Cavs game yesterday on the Score, you may have noticed how bad Artest was on the few breaks that the Rockets got. He fumbled the ball twice (although one was because he rolled his ankle on Wallce) while slashing to the basket.

If you want a truly effective run and gun Gordon is the man to go after. If you want an average run and gun with someone who can take defensive assignments for the team, Artest is the man.

Mile High Champ
02-27-2009, 11:27 AM
I am beyond happy what Marion has done with this team so far. He should be one of the more sought after players this year and I do hope BC does whatever he can to keep him..

wyze
02-27-2009, 11:57 AM
I have to agree with Mile High....I didn't see it at first but Marion is the kind of guy that is giving us that Veteran pressence and isn't afraid to talk. I love that, and it was something that the raps have been missing for a longtime.
I also agree that we have to do what we can to resign him. I would also like to see us hold on to Delfino....and possibly sign Charlie V.
I think if we can bring him back...(and I know I'm going to get alot of flack for this one) but it also give us the option to say "hey Bosh, if you don't want to resign then that is fine." We can look at trading him then for a more than quality 2 and some. Right now I still don't see Bosh resigning with us, And I don't see us doing enough in the offseason to keep him happy. This is a preperation move that I hope won't cause to much of a disruption in the chemistry of the team.

As for Gordon...I don't like him. Seem to be a very much me first player. I agree with anyone who says that he is undersized. We are already undersized at the PF position, and anyone that says different most not watch a Raptors game.
I lilke that Marion goes inside and allows Barg to make the decision of shooting or driving, but now think if we have two slashers in the middle...at the SG and the PF.... again if we can find one that is going to sign for Cheap and we can keep Bosh then we would be contenders without question....and enters Delfino.....


Barg/o' Bryant(for now)
Bosh/Charlie V
Marion/?
Delfino/Parker
Calderon/Ukic

and lets not forget that Ukic is 6'5...small for the number 2....but for sure bigger than Gordon....

thoughts?

pebloemer
02-27-2009, 01:24 PM
I have to agree with Mile High....I didn't see it at first but Marion is the kind of guy that is giving us that Veteran pressence and isn't afraid to talk. I love that, and it was something that the raps have been missing for a longtime.
I also agree that we have to do what we can to resign him. I would also like to see us hold on to Delfino....and possibly sign Charlie V.
I think if we can bring him back...(and I know I'm going to get alot of flack for this one) but it also give us the option to say "hey Bosh, if you don't want to resign then that is fine." We can look at trading him then for a more than quality 2 and some. Right now I still don't see Bosh resigning with us, And I don't see us doing enough in the offseason to keep him happy. This is a preperation move that I hope won't cause to much of a disruption in the chemistry of the team.

As for Gordon...I don't like him. Seem to be a very much me first player. I agree with anyone who says that he is undersized. We are already undersized at the PF position, and anyone that says different most not watch a Raptors game.
I lilke that Marion goes inside and allows Barg to make the decision of shooting or driving, but now think if we have two slashers in the middle...at the SG and the PF.... again if we can find one that is going to sign for Cheap and we can keep Bosh then we would be contenders without question....and enters Delfino.....


Barg/o' Bryant(for now)
Bosh/Charlie V
Marion/?
Delfino/Parker
Calderon/Ukic

and lets not forget that Ukic is 6'5...small for the number 2....but for sure bigger than Gordon....

thoughts?

Charlie V has been playing great for the Bucks this year. I don't see them letting him go. If he is available he would be a great fit IMO.

wyze
02-27-2009, 02:18 PM
yeah I agree on that, but again if he is avail....we need to jump on that right quick....but again...the number two spot is the biggest question other than replacing bosh if/when he leaves

RapToronto95
02-27-2009, 02:50 PM
Why is Deaner speaking for Frank?

deaner = frank !!:speechless:

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

RapToronto95
02-27-2009, 02:52 PM
and im also not in favour of gordon. Isn't he just another shooter? Albeit a good one, but we really need a driving guard.

RapToronto95
02-27-2009, 03:00 PM
What do you guys think about signing Lamar Odom instead of Marion in the offseason?

I mean Marion is great and all but Odom can also provide the same things Marion does, such as rebounding and some size. He may not be as good a defensive player than Marion, but he does handle the ball really well and can initiate offense for himself and for others, something the raps could use.

LD V2.0
02-27-2009, 03:26 PM
What do you guys think about signing Lamar Odom instead of Marion in the offseason?

I mean Marion is great and all but Odom can also provide the same things Marion does, such as rebounding and some size. He may not be as good a defensive player than Marion, but he does handle the ball really well and can initiate offense for himself and for others, something the raps could use.

Odom doesn't provide intensity and he's a chronic choker.

7777777
02-27-2009, 03:41 PM
If you want to gun and run you don't need stoppers. Look at the Suns, they don't stop the opposition on possessions, they want you to score ASAP so they can get back to running and gunning. If your aim is for a high octane offense all you need are guys that can run the break, are athletic and have great endurance and stamina to withstand huge amounts of running through the court.

Gordon can run the break, shoot from anywhere on the floor and get to the basket easily. He may be undersized and not regarded as a defender but if you're aiming for a run and gun offense you don't really need that. If you watched the Rockets-Cavs game yesterday on the Score, you may have noticed how bad Artest was on the few breaks that the Rockets got. He fumbled the ball twice (although one was because he rolled his ankle on Wallce) while slashing to the basket.

If you want a truly effective run and gun Gordon is the man to go after. If you want an average run and gun with someone who can take defensive assignments for the team, Artest is the man.

Absolutely wrong, no offense. The Suns might have allowed lots of points, but it's only because their fast style gave the opponent lots of extra possessions. They were always in the top 5 in fewest points allowed per 100 possessions, which is the real stat of likelihood of getting stops.

Shawn Marion, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, were great defenders they relied on to get stops, rebounds, then transition into a break out.

80's lakers, 00's suns, the key to any fast break is getting a stop. After all, it's hard to run form an out-of-bounds play after your opponent scores...

Ben Gordon is an undersized combo-guard. The only value he'd have to a contender is coming of the bench to run half-court sets, getting to the basket. If we were to acquire him, it would be at the expense of Marion, and we'd have to start him, due a lack of depth. No thanks...

Macedonian
02-27-2009, 03:42 PM
and im also not in favour of gordon. Isn't he just another shooter?Is there any better SG among the unrestricted free agents? I don't think so!

Here's the list of the UFAs:
Ben Gordon, Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd, Mike Bibby, Rasheed Wallace, Allen Iverson, Ron Artest, Trevor Ariza, Antonio McDyess, Chris Wilcox, Drew Gooden, Anthony Parker, Zaza Pachulia, Brandon Bass, Wally Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, Stephon Marbury, Grant Hill, Stromile Swift, Robert Swift, Rasho Nesterovic, Keith Bogans, Bobby Jackson, Damon Jones, Desmond Mason, Chris Mihm, Jason Collins, Jarron Collins...

Gordon is not a great option, but I can't see anyone better!

7777777
02-27-2009, 03:46 PM
If you want to gun and run you don't need stoppers. Look at the Suns, they don't stop the opposition on possessions, they want you to score ASAP so they can get back to running and gunning. If your aim is for a high octane offense all you need are guys that can run the break, are athletic and have great endurance and stamina to withstand huge amounts of running through the court.

Gordon can run the break, shoot from anywhere on the floor and get to the basket easily. He may be undersized and not regarded as a defender but if you're aiming for a run and gun offense you don't really need that. If you watched the Rockets-Cavs game yesterday on the Score, you may have noticed how bad Artest was on the few breaks that the Rockets got. He fumbled the ball twice (although one was because he rolled his ankle on Wallce) while slashing to the basket.

If you want a truly effective run and gun Gordon is the man to go after. If you want an average run and gun with someone who can take defensive assignments for the team, Artest is the man.

Also, want to point out that I've never advocated picking up Artest. I don't think he can stay focussed, and you're right about his inability to run the break.

But, if you bring up the Rockets-Cavs game, which I did watch, you'd notice Von Wafer. Runs the break brilliantly, hits shots in transition, and most importantly, he started a ton of run outs with his defense on Mo Williams.

7777777
02-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Is there any better SG among the unrestricted free agents? I don't think so!

Here's the list of the UFAs:
Ben Gordon, Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd, Mike Bibby, Rasheed Wallace, Allen Iverson, Ron Artest, Trevor Ariza, Antonio McDyess, Chris Wilcox, Drew Gooden, Anthony Parker, Zaza Pachulia, Brandon Bass, Wally Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, Stephon Marbury, Grant Hill, Stromile Swift, Robert Swift, Rasho Nesterovic, Keith Bogans, Bobby Jackson, Damon Jones, Desmond Mason, Chris Mihm, Jason Collins, Jarron Collins...

Gordon is not a great option, but I can't see anyone better!

Then go through the draft or with this economy, make a pitch at a restricted free agent (V. Wafer or C.J. Watson could be great fits...). But whatever you do, don't make a big splash for a guy who doesn't fit your system. You'll never get rid of them (see C. Maggette and E. Brand...).

pebloemer
02-27-2009, 04:27 PM
Then go through the draft or with this economy, make a pitch at a restricted free agent (V. Wafer or C.J. Watson could be great fits...). But whatever you do, don't make a big splash for a guy who doesn't fit your system. You'll never get rid of them (see C. Maggette and E. Brand...).

Agreed that the Raptor's should pounced and spend their money on a guy if they think he is the wrong guy. Just because someone is the best SG available, doesn't mean he is the right guy to go after. I'd prefer sign a small contract to Parker, save the money I'd spend on Gordon and maybe look for someone in 2010 that is a better fit.

Master P
02-27-2009, 04:27 PM
trevor ariza can play

HoopsDrive
02-27-2009, 05:33 PM
Absolutely wrong, no offense. The Suns might have allowed lots of points, but it's only because their fast style gave the opponent lots of extra possessions. They were always in the top 5 in fewest points allowed per 100 possessions, which is the real stat of likelihood of getting stops.

Shawn Marion, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, were great defenders they relied on to get stops, rebounds, then transition into a break out.

80's lakers, 00's suns, the key to any fast break is getting a stop. After all, it's hard to run form an out-of-bounds play after your opponent scores...

Ben Gordon is an undersized combo-guard. The only value he'd have to a contender is coming of the bench to run half-court sets, getting to the basket. If we were to acquire him, it would be at the expense of Marion, and we'd have to start him, due a lack of depth. No thanks...

I don't know about being in the top 5 in fewest points allowed per 100 possessions, check this out:


Def: 107.8 (15)
Points allowed per 100 possessions February 4th last year, before the trade for Shaq.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/02/09/week15/index.html

Def: 110.8 (19)
Points allowed per 100 possessions February 9th this year, before the firing of Terry Porter and change to the run and gun offense.

http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/20080204.html

When they had the lineup of Marion, Amare, Nash and Barbosa before the trade for Shaq happened last season, they were only 15th in the league in points allowed per 100 possessions. By this time this year, with Porter's defensive minded schemes still running, the Suns are a bit worse at 19th.

The Suns were never adept at making stops, they relied on an extremely fast and efficient offense and forced their opponents to keep pace with them. The reason they scored so much was a combination of run and gun offense, forcing opponents to shoot quickly by pressing them and of course, efficient defensive rebounding which they had in Amare and Marion and still have in Shaq and Amare.

That is why I'm saying that if BC is aiming for a true run and gun offense he should definitely try and sign Gordon to the team as he fits into the system that BC is truly aiming for.

RAPTORS.RAPTORS
02-27-2009, 06:06 PM
What do you guys think about signing Lamar Odom instead of Marion in the offseason?

I mean Marion is great and all but Odom can also provide the same things Marion does, such as rebounding and some size. He may not be as good a defensive player than Marion, but he does handle the ball really well and can initiate offense for himself and for others, something the raps could use.

if marion doesnt want to resign i think he would be a good fit and a bit cheaper

lorenz00
02-27-2009, 08:20 PM
good list of FA in 2009 i hope we could snatch couple of good players to fit in with bosh