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View Full Version : Jim Boeheim sets record with 31st 20 win season, passing Dean Smith



Wrigleyboy25
02-24-2009, 11:59 PM
NEW YORK -- Jim Boeheim got the win that put him all alone on a special list. Syracuse got the victory that keeps it in the mix.

Jonny Flynn scored 21 points and the Orange shot a season-high 65 percent from the field in an 87-58 victory over St. John's on Tuesday night, a win that gave Boeheim his record 31st 20-win season.

Boeheim entered the game tied with former North Carolina coach Dean Smith for the Division I record for 20-win seasons.

"I remember thinking when I started coaching that Adolph Rupp had 876 wins and I thought that's 20 wins a year for 40 years and I'm only going to last 10," said the Hall of Fame coach who picked up win No. 791 in his 33rd season as a head coach. "At least I've lasted more than 10."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290552599

Chest Rockwell
02-25-2009, 12:10 AM
Hell of a coach. He doesn't always get the big recruits, but he makes it work.

Wake's Fastball
02-25-2009, 12:25 AM
Pretty friggin impressive. It's one thing to get that many wins. It's another when they consistently come in bunches like that.

YankeePride13
02-25-2009, 09:54 AM
I'm sorry, but I think he's the most overrated coach in NCAA history...

Someone said he doesn't always get the big recruits and still wins....Tell me, who's fault is it that he doesn't get the big recruits???? His.

You have a great program in the Big East, yet you can't recruit more more MDAA??

With the exception of his 2003 National Championship (where he finally got a top player in the country in Carmelo), his teams ALWAYS disappoint...

They start ranked high, yet seem to struggle to make the tournament. When they are ranked high, they get knocked out early.

Let's look at the past 20 years of postseason play...

1 National Championship
1 Loss in Title Game
6 Sweet 16's

and the dominating conclusion to his seasons....

Either failed to make the tournament (one year due to NCAA violations), lost in 1st or 2nd round:

12 times in 20 years...And he's failed to reach the 2nd round of the NCAA's in the past 4 seasons...Twice missing the tournament.

Name me another "great" coach with that type of postseason failure...

He's good, not great.

Wrigleyboy25
02-25-2009, 12:42 PM
^He's actually been to three title games, not 2. So you are wrong there.

The crap you speak of is from the past couple of years where they were snubbed once, and the last team out last year.

You can't dismiss his championship. Don't be stupid. He won that because he also had guys like McNamara and Warrick.

He's one of the greatest college coaches of all time, and he is in the hall of fame.

Wake's Fastball
02-25-2009, 01:14 PM
Yeah, he's still one of the best. Between him, Dixon, Calhoun, Pitino, Jay Wright and Keno Davis (hehe) the Big East may be the most coaching-rich conference in the nation.

YankeePride13
02-25-2009, 01:22 PM
^He's actually been to three title games, not 2. So you are wrong there.

The crap you speak of is from the past couple of years where they were snubbed once, and the last team out last year.

You can't dismiss his championship. Don't be stupid. He won that because he also had guys like McNamara and Warrick.

He's one of the greatest college coaches of all time, and he is in the hall of fame.

Past 20 years, only 2 national title games...That's where I was pulling the information from.

I'm not dismissing the National Championship, it's a fantastic feat...I mean, it's hard to coach one of the greatest programs in the country for 33 years and not luck your way into one...I think we all know that no Carmelo = no National Championship...

Look the guy is a Hall of Famer...33 years at the same program, 20 win seasons and all, he's a good coach.

My argument is simply that he's very overrated and not in the same league as Dean Smith, Coach K, Roy Williams, Adolph Rupp, John Wooden, etc.

YankeePride13
02-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Yeah, he's still one of the best. Between him, Dixon, Calhoun, Pitino, Jay Wright and Keno Davis (hehe) the Big East may be the most coaching-rich conference in the nation.

I think Calhoun's far and above the best out of that bunch...

Dixon I don't think is that good of an x's and o's coach. He's one hell of a recruiter.

Wake's Fastball
02-25-2009, 01:30 PM
Past 20 years, only 2 national title games...That's where I was pulling the information from.

I'm not dismissing the National Championship, it's a fantastic feat...I mean, it's hard to coach one of the greatest programs in the country for 33 years and not luck your way into one...I think we all know that no Carmelo = no National Championship...

Look the guy is a Hall of Famer...33 years at the same program, 20 win seasons and all, he's a good coach.

My argument is simply that he's very overrated and not in the same league as Dean Smith, Coach K, Roy Williams, Adolph Rupp, John Wooden, etc.

You can argue about the benefits he gets from being at Syracuse, but 31 20-win seasons out of 33 (with one of the misses being a 19-win season) is stellar when playing in the Big East. He's racked up 25 NCAA appearances, and he hasn't missed playing in either than or the NIT (sans the 92-93 ban) since he started coaching the Orange in 1976. His resume is as good as most anyone else.


I think Calhoun's far and above the best out of that bunch...

Dixon I don't think is that good of an x's and o's coach. He's one hell of a recruiter.

Calhoun's brilliant for sure. I'm honestly convinced Dixon's one of the best in the country though.

Padres Son
02-25-2009, 03:56 PM
I'm sorry, but I think he's the most overrated coach in NCAA history...

Someone said he doesn't always get the big recruits and still wins....Tell me, who's fault is it that he doesn't get the big recruits???? His.

You have a great program in the Big East, yet you can't recruit more more MDAA??

With the exception of his 2003 National Championship (where he finally got a top player in the country in Carmelo), his teams ALWAYS disappoint...

They start ranked high, yet seem to struggle to make the tournament. When they are ranked high, they get knocked out early.

Let's look at the past 20 years of postseason play...

1 National Championship
1 Loss in Title Game
6 Sweet 16's

and the dominating conclusion to his seasons....

Either failed to make the tournament (one year due to NCAA violations), lost in 1st or 2nd round:

12 times in 20 years...And he's failed to reach the 2nd round of the NCAA's in the past 4 seasons...Twice missing the tournament.

Name me another "great" coach with that type of postseason failure...

He's good, not great.You can't be serious. The guy is very obviously one of the best to ever coach. His teams have made it to AT LEAST the Sweet Sixteen in:

1977
1979
1980
1984
1987
1989
1990
1994
1996
1998
2000
2003
2004

Yeah, you're right, he sucks in the post season.


I'm not dismissing the National Championship, it's a fantastic feat...I mean, it's hard to coach one of the greatest programs in the country for 33 years and not luck your way into one...I think we all know that no Carmelo = no National Championship...
Without a doubt, this is the dumbest thing I have ever read on PSD. By far.

YankeePride13
02-25-2009, 04:23 PM
dude, 13 Sweet 16's in 33 years at a great program is not that good. At all.

The point is he's being compared to Dean Smith, Coach K, Bob Knight, and hell even Roy Williams who has coached for 12 fewer seasons and he's not in the same league. Period. Hell, I'm going to argue he's not even the most accomplished coach in the Big East right now...We'll also look at Jim Calhoun's numbers...

Let's look at the accomplishments...I give facts buddy....

Dean Smith
Years - 36
National Titles - 2
Final Fours - 11
Sweet 16's - 22

Coach K
Years - 29
National Titles - 3
Final Fours - 10
Sweet 16's - 17

Bob Knight
Years (IU) - 29
National Titles - 3
Final Fours - 5
Sweet 16's - 14

Roy Williams
Years - 21
National Titles - 1
Final Fours - 6
Sweet 16's - 12

Jim Calhoun
Years - 23
National Titles - 2
Final Fours - 2
Sweet 16's - 11


Now we look at ole Jimmy...

Years - 33
National Titles - 1
Final Fours - 3
Sweet 16's - 13

So let's see he has less National Titles, Final Fours, and Sweet 16's than the entire list (with the exception of Calhoun, who has two fewer, yet coached 10 years fewer at UCONN).

Now you want to put him in the category of these coaching greats of the modern era???

Wrigleyboy25
02-25-2009, 05:02 PM
Past 20 years, only 2 national title games...That's where I was pulling the information from.
Why, because it is the most convenient way for you to frame your ridiculous argument?


I'm not dismissing the National Championship, it's a fantastic feat...I mean, it's hard to coach one of the greatest programs in the country for 33 years and not luck your way into one...

This is the dumbest crap I've ever read.

Padres Son
02-25-2009, 05:20 PM
dude, 13 Sweet 16's in 33 years at a great program is not that good. At all.:laugh: C'mon man... that's better than once every three years he's got his team in the Sweet 16. That's not that good? This is Syracuse... yes there's a good history there, but they're not UNC, Duke, Indiana, or Kentucky.


The point is he's being compared to Dean Smith, Coach K, Bob Knight, and hell even Roy Williams who has coached for 12 fewer seasons and he's not in the same league. Period. Hell, I'm going to argue he's not even the most accomplished coach in the Big East right now...We'll also look at Jim Calhoun's numbers...Yeah, he's being mentioned amongst the great coaches, as he should be. Who is saying he's BETTER than Dean Smith or Coach K? Let me know.


So let's see he has less National Titles, Final Fours, and Sweet 16's than the entire list (with the exception of Calhoun, who has two fewer, yet coached 10 years fewer at UCONN).

Now you want to put him in the category of these coaching greats of the modern era???Yes, I would put him in that category. I didn't argue that he's better than any of them. Simply that he belongs amongst the greats.

You have said that he's the most overrated coach in NCAA history (no hyperbole there :rolleyes:) and that he was lucky to win a national championship. I strongly disagree with both of those statements.

YankeePride13
02-26-2009, 09:32 AM
It's obvious the two people above me are Syracuse fans (or alum, or both)...

I don't blame you for the argument, if you said the same about Dean Smith or Roy Williams, I'd jump on you also.

What I'm saying is that he does not belong in that discussion with Smith, Bob Knight, etc..

My argument for this is lack of postseason success. Honestly, all those 20 win seasons mean crap if you can't get your team out of the 2nd round of the NCAA's on a consistent basis.

Every great coach he's being mentioned with had the ability to do that, Jimmy does not. And he yet again has a team this year that has underachieved and will fight simply to make the NCAA's.

It's become pretty obvious that in the past 5 years teams like UCONN, Georgetown (who are rebuilding this year and will be phenomenal next season), Marquette, Louisville have really left Syracuse behind...

Like I said, he's a good coach, he's a hall of famer because of his regular season resume....

He's not in the discussion with Dean, Bobby, Coach K and the other great coaches of this era.

acousticmike80
02-26-2009, 01:57 PM
I don't know that anyone said he was as good or better?

I think the point is that he has been a very good coach for many years. Even if he is not a top 5 or 10 coach, he has been a constant success at the D1 Level.

I am not a SU fan, but the guy is a good coach. He has some unique approaches, but his program has been pretty consistent.

Do I think he is a Dean Smith, Bobby Knight or Coach K? No, of course not.....but he is one of the better coaches of this era.

Mr. October
02-26-2009, 09:08 PM
It's obvious the two people above me are Syracuse fans (or alum, or both)...

I don't blame you for the argument, if you said the same about Dean Smith or Roy Williams, I'd jump on you also.

What I'm saying is that he does not belong in that discussion with Smith, Bob Knight, etc..

My argument for this is lack of postseason success. Honestly, all those 20 win seasons mean crap if you can't get your team out of the 2nd round of the NCAA's on a consistent basis.

Every great coach he's being mentioned with had the ability to do that, Jimmy does not. And he yet again has a team this year that has underachieved and will fight simply to make the NCAA's.

It's become pretty obvious that in the past 5 years teams like UCONN, Georgetown (who are rebuilding this year and will be phenomenal next season), Marquette, Louisville have really left Syracuse behind...

Like I said, he's a good coach, he's a hall of famer because of his regular season resume....

He's not in the discussion with Dean, Bobby, Coach K and the other great coaches of this era.

You understand you're comparing him with the cream of the crop coaches. Just to be mentioned in that the way he is does not make you overrated at all. His consistency has been fantastic, as people have said, he doesn't get the best recruits all the time, which is not his fault because people go to school for other reasons that basketball, as Syracuse is a nice city but has its issues (cold, crime).

thegreatone08
02-26-2009, 10:31 PM
No way he is overrated. Is he in the same league as Roy Williams, Coach K, Dean Smith, and so on, no but there are tons of schools that would love to have him as their coach.

Him, Gary Williams and Petino aren't in the same league as the others but they are as good as it gets with the exception of Tobacco Road.

And you say he doesn't get good recruits? Then he must do a hell of a coachin job to have the resume he does. Same with Gary Williams. He found some diamonds in the rough the year they won the Championship with Wilcox and Juan Dixon. But both get the most out of the "weak talent" they recruit.

Padres Son
02-27-2009, 12:09 PM
It's obvious the two people above me are Syracuse fans (or alum, or both)... Wrong. Maybe this is strange to you, but I can respect players and coaches even if they're not on the team I root for.


I don't blame you for the argument, if you said the same about Dean Smith or Roy Williams, I'd jump on you also.Because you're a homer and you think the college basketball world revolves around UNC-Duke.


My argument for this is lack of postseason success. Honestly, all those 20 win seasons mean crap if you can't get your team out of the 2nd round of the NCAA's on a consistent basis.He has 13 times... better than a sweet 16 every 3 years. 13 sweet sixteen's in 33 years... he gets them there 40% of the time. If you think that's an easy feat, you must be new to college basketball.


Every great coach he's being mentioned with had the ability to do that, Jimmy does not. And he yet again has a team this year that has underachieved and will fight simply to make the NCAA's.Underachieved according to YOUR expectations. They're 20-8 and they have a winning record in the strongest conference in college basketball.


It's become pretty obvious that in the past 5 years teams like UCONN, Georgetown (who are rebuilding this year and will be phenomenal next season), Marquette, Louisville have really left Syracuse behind...That's absolutely ridiculous. College bball is a game of ebb and flow... Boeheim has produced great teams for 33 years!!!


Like I said, he's a good coach, he's a hall of famer because of his regular season resume....

He's not in the discussion with Dean, Bobby, Coach K and the other great coaches of this era.You're wrong. He belongs in the company with the all-time greats.

YankeePride13
02-27-2009, 04:38 PM
You're wrong. He belongs in the company with the all-time greats.

You're the only one in this thread that seems to think so....Everyone else seems to agree he's not in that discussion, yet still a good coach...

Yes, 39% is good....But let's take a look at the percentages of the coaches you say he belongs with....

Dean Smith - 61%
Bob Knight - 48%
Roy Williams - 57%
Coach K - 59%
Jim Calhoun - 48%

Once again, he falls well below these other coaches...

Should we do final fours??

Dean Smith - 31%
Bob Knight - 17%
Roy Williams - 29%
Coach K - 34%
Jim Calhoun - 8.7%

Ole Jimmy...9%

With the exception of Calhoun, he's not even close!!!


Again, he's a good coach....he's not an all time great...The numbers don't lie.

Padres Son
02-27-2009, 05:57 PM
You're the only one in this thread that seems to think so....Everyone else seems to agree he's not in that discussion, yet still a good coach...

Yes, 39% is good....But let's take a look at the percentages of the coaches you say he belongs with....

Dean Smith - 61%
Bob Knight - 48%
Roy Williams - 57%
Coach K - 59%
Jim Calhoun - 48%

Once again, he falls well below these other coaches...

Should we do final fours??

Dean Smith - 31%
Bob Knight - 17%
Roy Williams - 29%
Coach K - 34%
Jim Calhoun - 8.7%

Ole Jimmy...9%

With the exception of Calhoun, he's not even close!!!


Again, he's a good coach....he's not an all time great...The numbers don't lie.What is your definition of "in the discussion"? Because you keep saying it like "in the discussion" means that he is equal to or better than Dean Smith, Kryzewski, Roy Williams, etc.

To me "in the discussion" of all-time greatest NCAA coaches means that, for instance, you and your buddies are having a discussion about who are the greatest coaches in NCAA history... people start throwing out names. Obviously you're going to hear names like Wooden, Rupp, Knight, Calhoun, Kryzewski, Smith, and Williams. You don't think the name Boeheim is going to come up? You don't think he "belongs in the discussion"? Because that's how I would define "belongs in the discussion". I'd also bring up names like Lefty Driesell, John Thompson, Pete Carril, and Gary Williams and their numbers don't even come close to Boeheim's.

If you want start a thread called "who's the greatest coach in NCAA history", I'm not coming in there to argue that it's Jim Boeheim. But if you want to talk about all-time great NCAA basketball coaches, Jim Boeheim, without a doubt, unequivocally, absolutely, 100% BELONGS IN THE DISCUSSION.

sdweston757
03-01-2009, 08:38 PM
I dont think he belongs in the discussion either to be honest with you

the man provided the numbers and it makes sense to me. Boeheim is an above average coach that has great winning numbers because of the length of time he has been coaching at that above average level.

YankeePride13
03-02-2009, 08:22 PM
Sorry man, but if me and my buddies are having a discussion about the greatest coaches in NCAA history, Jim Boeheim is not getting brought up. He's simply not on that level.