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More shats!
02-21-2009, 01:08 AM
I think we should go after him in the offseason, Doug Smith said BC will look at him in the summer so there might be something there. He is a 20 ppg scorer and I really like to get him so he could be our Ginobilli, a guy that comes off the bench (Because I don’t want a small dude like BG guarding the SG in the NBA) and scores 16-20 points every night, brings hustle and if BC really wants to play run and gun I think he be a really nice fit.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/

Draco
02-21-2009, 01:22 AM
You'd be in the same position as the Bull's. You might not want a 6'1" SG in the starting line-up but since he's the best SG on the team you have to put him there. Or it would be that the coach ends up playing BG more minutes than your token taller SG.

If Bosh is really one foot out the door then Colangelo obviously doesn't have the luxury of time to build through the draft. Targetting a FA like BG is the only card I see Colangelo being able to play to possibly convince Bosh to change his mind.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

That's the rub.. you'll have to overpay him to pry him away from Chicago. If you get him, he'll be expensive.

LD V2.0
02-21-2009, 01:24 AM
The team could certainly use a guy like Ben Gordon at the 2 spot. Personally I still hope they take a run at Artest.

More shats!
02-21-2009, 01:25 AM
You'd be in the same position as the Bull's. You might not want a 6'1" SG in the starting line-up but since he's the best SG on the team you have to put him there. Or it would be that the coach ends up playing BG more minutes than your token taller SG.

If Bosh is really one foot out the door then Colangelo obviously doesn't have the luxury of time to build through the draft. Targetting a FA like BG is the only card I see Colangelo being able to play to possibly convince Bosh to change his mind.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

That's the rub.. you'll have to overpay him to pry him away from Chicago. If you get him, he'll be expensive.

How High you think Chicago is willing to go to keep him?You guys fail to resign him last year after he rejected your offer.

Since you are here can you give us a scouting report on him?

More shats!
02-21-2009, 01:29 AM
The team could certainly use a guy like Ben Gordon at the 2 spot. Personally I still hope they take a run at Artest.

+1

I would relly like Artest and he likes Toronto but not sure how realistic he is considering BC is high on Character guys.Ben Gordon seems to be more realistic considering we are week at the wing and he is a pretty good scorer..

nads83
02-21-2009, 01:43 AM
more shooters?

More shats!
02-21-2009, 01:46 AM
more shooters?

Ben Gordon can slash! He gets to the line 4-5 times a game and that would be second to Bosh on the Raps who gets 8-9 a game.Not bad if you ask me.

Draco
02-21-2009, 02:12 AM
How High you think Chicago is willing to go to keep him?You guys fail to resign him last year after he rejected your offer.

Since you are here can you give us a scouting report on him?

I know Paxson intends to negiotiate a deal and BG is willing to consider it. It's anyone's guess whether they come together.

I'm not the best person to give a scouting report on Gordon. I have a vicseral feeling about him as a player. He works hard and he's a winner. There are a lot of bogus concerns about him being greedy, a ball hog, a chucker, streaky, and selfish. None of that is true to my estimation. There are valid concerns about him being somewhat of a one dimensional player. I'm willing to bet that he's hitting below average for the SG position in assists and rebounds. But's that's due to his height. He's a hard worker, really active on the floor and intelligent. He's a capable passer but he's got a scorers mentality and racking up assists isn't his game. When he's handling the ball he's primarily looking to score. However.. again, he's not a ball hog. For example, he was hot in the 3rd quarter in tonights game against the Nuggets. He had something like 15 points that quarter. In the forth, he was spotting up in the corners for a 3 or just making himself available for a pass while being content to let Rose or Hinrich run the offense.. His defense is a little below average and I've seen Jose Barea torch him on blow by's.. (but then, that particular game I think he might have had a career night as he was torching all the Bull's players). He doesn't have the best handle for a guard. It seems like he dribbles off his foot too often but he's really not a liability for that. He's capable of running a fast break and effectively finishing it.

I'll paraphrase one of our broadcasters (stacey king) on this point; he's excellent playing off the ball and probably better at that than when he's trying to create his own shot. Another one of our broadcasters (kendall gill) described his ability to score as something of a rare commodity in the league comparable to what Kobe or Lebron can do. That's might be a bit of an exaggeration since he averages around 20 points rather 28. The problem is that because BG is 6'1" he can be overwhelmed by taller players. He's also double teamed quite a bit if other Bull's players aren't stepping up and hitting their shots. Open jumpers are pretty much automatic. He's also capable of making incredibly tough shots. He'll put up the occassional wild shot but this isn't a big deal to me. If you're a scorer, you're going to do that. Just the same as if your specialty is blocking shots, there are times when you're going to get dunked on.

More shats!
02-21-2009, 02:29 AM
I know Paxson intends to negiotiate a deal and BG is willing to consider it. It's anyone's guess whether they come together.

I'm not the best person to give a scouting report on Gordon. I have a vicseral feeling about him as a player. He works hard and he's a winner. There are a lot of bogus concerns about him being greedy, a ball hog, a chucker, streaky, and selfish. None of that is true to my estimation. There are valid concerns about him being somewhat of a one dimensional player. I'm willing to bet that he's hitting below average for the SG position in assists and rebounds. But's that's due to his height. He's a hard worker and really active on the floor. He's a capable passer but he's got a scorers mentality and racking up assists isn't his game. When he's handling the ball he's primarily looking to score. However.. again, he's not a ball hog. For example, he was hot in the 3rd quarter in tonights game against the Nuggets. He had something like 15 points that quarter. In the forth, he was spotting up in the corners for a 3, and content to let Rose or Hinrich run the offense.. His defense is a little below average and I've seen Jose Barea torch him on blow by's.. (but then, that particular game I think he might have had a career night as he was torching all the Bull's players). He doesn't have the best handle for a guard. It seems like he dribbles off his foot too often but he's really not a liability for that.

I'll paraphrase one of our broadcasters (stacey king) on this point; he's excellent playing off the ball and probably better at that than when he's trying to create his own shot. Another one of our broadcasters (kendall gill) described his ability to score as something of a rare commodity in the league comparable to what Kobe or Lebron can do. That's might be a bit of an exaggeration since he averages around 20 points rather 28. The problem is that because BG is 6'1" he can be overwhelmed by taller players. He's also double teamed quite a bit if other Bull's players aren't stepping up and hitting their shots. Open jumpers are pretty much automatic. He's also capable of making incredibly tough shots. He'll put up the occassional wild shot but this isn't a big deal to me. If you're a scorer, you're going to do that. Just the same as if your specialty is blocking shots, there are times when you're going to get dunked on.


Those bold parts are big concerns for me Greedy,Ball hog,Chuker,Streaky,Selfish,6'1?(Isnt he 6'3?),Drible ball of his foot?,One dimensional player? that is pretty bad.He seems like a Fred Jones on Steroids by reading all that.You are scaring me off that is not good at all.He has some things we need like 20ppg but if those concerns are true(You said they are not true) but if they are or even half of them i am not sure 20ppg can make up for all of that specialy at over 10 mill.

Kaze
02-21-2009, 02:31 AM
well i wouldnt mind a ben gordon on this team, hes relatively young enough to become a core piece, hes instant offense, gives you another ball handler, can make plays off the ball, but the thing that worries me is his size, volume shooter, and price tag...

Draco
02-21-2009, 02:33 AM
Those bold parts are big concerns for me Greedy,Ball hog,Chuker,Streaky,Selfish,6'1?(Isnt he 6'3?),Drible ball of his foot?,One dimensional player? that is pretty bad.He seems like a Fred Jones on Steroids by reading all that.You are scaring me off that is not good at all.He has some things we need like 20ppg but if those concerns are true(You said they are not true) but if they are or even half of them i am not sure 20ppg can make up for all of that specialy at over 10 mill.

Yeah, BG's not perfect.. but he's a winner, I still want him back. :D

More shats!
02-21-2009, 02:37 AM
Yeah, BG's not perfect.. but he's a winner, I still want him back. :D

Winner is the key there we need players on the Raps that want to win relly bad

Last one is Ben Gordon a Clutch player and can he be a go to guy?

WaterBoy24
02-21-2009, 02:54 AM
Off season aquisition....Artest...but first we need head coach..

Draco
02-21-2009, 03:00 AM
Winner is the key there we need players on the Raps that want to win relly bad

Last one is Ben Gordon a Clutch player and can he be a go to guy?

Hard to say, people have different expectations. Gordon's shooting is clutch but he's not a franchise level talent one-on-one player.

Here's an interesting article that might help you form your own opinion.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-12-bulls-chicagofeb12,0,624645.story

Bob_at_york
02-21-2009, 10:41 AM
this thread is amazing. If the Raptors got Ben then I can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

raptor fan
02-21-2009, 10:58 AM
i dont think he is the right fit for our team. he and calderon wont match up well defensively with the backcourts on other teams. i would rather spend the money elsewhere

kanersen
02-21-2009, 12:01 PM
oh god pls no

ramz.n
02-21-2009, 12:04 PM
The team could certainly use a guy like Ben Gordon at the 2 spot. Personally I still hope they take a run at Artest.

thats what im hoping for..Artest at around 8-10 m and than BG..but i don't know how much BG will command ..he did turn down a huge offer similar to Deng..but Deng eventually took the deal..BG..i have no clue how much it would take to sign him..but if its 8m+ he better be a starter..because that's a pricey player off the bench.

ramz.n
02-21-2009, 12:05 PM
i dont think he is the right fit for our team. he and calderon wont match up well defensively with the backcourts on other teams. i would rather spend the money elsewhere


Gordon is a good defender..hes just undersized.

B2B
02-21-2009, 12:15 PM
Gordon is a good defender..hes just undersized.

Gordon + Ukic > Gordon + Calderon

ramz.n
02-21-2009, 12:18 PM
Gordon + Ukic > Gordon + Calderon

Ukic does look for other players more..Calderon is such a coaches pet:p..if you notice when Jay says throw the ball in for bosh...every single play he would come up the court he would eye bosh down and force it in instead of hitting any cutting players or open players?? and whats with him forcing players either left or right...can't he play man to man..our players just keep getting broken down leading to easy baskets because of that.

B2B
02-21-2009, 12:37 PM
Ukic does look for other players more..Calderon is such a coaches pet:p..if you notice when Jay says throw the ball in for bosh...every single play he would come up the court he would eye bosh down and force it in instead of hitting any cutting players or open players?? and whats with him forcing players either left or right...can't he play man to man..our players just keep getting broken down leading to easy baskets because of that.

That's because Bosh gets mad at him if he gets post position & doesn't pass him the ball.

Ukic is a better defender than most give him credit for. He does a better job of staying infront of his man & fighting through screens than the rest of our perimeter defenders at point.

Forcing players certain directions r a part of defensive strategy but works only if forced into help or traps.

6th man
02-21-2009, 01:18 PM
We need guys that want to get out and run, and he should be a pass first PG. Gordon can play some PG, but he is a SG stuck in a PG body.

codes238
02-21-2009, 01:38 PM
this thread is amazing. If the Raptors got Ben then I can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

you have no idea what youre talking about honestly!
any time you have a chance to give an 8-10 million dollar multi-year contract to an undersized, one-dimensional shooting guard youdd be crazy not to do it!

ink
02-21-2009, 01:41 PM
this thread is amazing. If the raptors got ben then i can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

+1

nads83
02-21-2009, 02:36 PM
if we are indeed a run and gun team the obvious thing to do would be to re-sign marion and move bosh, who doesnt fit into this type of system, for someone who does. amare may not be available now considering PHX's shift back to an uptempo style. we kind of dropped the ball on that one if indeed PHX was willing to trade him for bosh.

greg_ory_2005
02-21-2009, 02:44 PM
this thread is amazing. If the Raptors got Ben then I can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

True.

GodsSon
02-21-2009, 02:51 PM
if we could get him for the MLE i would do it...although he may be undersized, he's a very good scorer and would definitely provide some good firepower off the bench...would you rather have Gordon or Kapono as the main scoring threat on your second unit?

yungballah15
02-21-2009, 02:54 PM
i been saying raptors should try and go after him he might be undersized but hes still getting his shoot up on bigger defenders i would give him 8-10 m he will be pretty good with jose on the fast break since jose loves to look for shooters and he can create for other people a little to

More shats!
02-21-2009, 03:20 PM
this thread is amazing. If the Raptors got Ben then I can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

Not sure what is so bad about the thread BOB?.We are in a position that we have to look at every scenario and I made the thread because Doug Smith said BC was going to look at Ben Gordon this summer, if I din't have that fact there would be no Ben Gordon? Thread.

7777777
02-21-2009, 03:43 PM
I think we shoud go after him in the offseason,Doug Smith said BC will look at him in the summer so there might be something there.He is a 20 ppg scorer and i relly like to get him so he could be our Ginobili in a way a guy that comes off the bench(Because i dont want a small dude like BG guarding the SG in the NBA) and scores 16-20 points every night,brings hustle and if BC relly wants to play run and gun i think he be a relly nice fit.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/

In order to sign him, you'd have to let Marion expire not resign him. First, I'd rather have Marion. Second, if you keep Marion, you can also sign an MLE player. So you choose, B. Gordon alone, or Marion plus MLE. Pretty easy choice if you ask me...

clehmun
02-21-2009, 04:20 PM
ben gordon's not the answer IMO.
we already have a PG who's a liability on defense, and it's already hard to win with that.
you add another undersized defensive liability to that backcourt, and it doesn't look promising.

i would love ben gordon coming off the bench as instant spark off the bench. and that's the role i see he's going to have to be in if his team were to win a championship.
but right now, he's going to be too expensive to play that role.

The_905
02-21-2009, 04:55 PM
Instead of going out and over paying for gordon this offseason i say we save the money for artest and draft curry who imo will be the next gordon..

kenzo400
02-21-2009, 09:02 PM
You'd be in the same position as the Bull's. You might not want a 6'1" SG in the starting line-up but since he's the best SG on the team you have to put him there. Or it would be that the coach ends up playing BG more minutes than your token taller SG.

If Bosh is really one foot out the door then Colangelo obviously doesn't have the luxury of time to build through the draft. Targetting a FA like BG is the only card I see Colangelo being able to play to possibly convince Bosh to change his mind.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

That's the rub.. you'll have to overpay him to pry him away from Chicago. If you get him, he'll be expensive.

Ben Gordon is 6"3 not 6"1.


I think this would be a good decision if we can get him for around 8-10 million. He might be undersized but he is a great player and i don't think he is a defensive liability just because of his size. He is pretty quick and plays solid defense. We could have a solid team next year if we get a high draft pick (which is looking good with all our loses now) and sign a guy like Ben Gordon.

Draco
02-21-2009, 09:05 PM
Ben Gordon is 6"3 not 6"1.

Ben Gordon is 6'1" not 6'3"

kenzo400
02-21-2009, 09:09 PM
Ben Gordon is 6'1" not 6'3"

Here is his nba profile. It clearly says 6"3

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/index.html

Draco
02-21-2009, 09:14 PM
Here is his nba profile. It clearly says 6"3

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/index.html

Derrick Rose is 6'3".. the next time you get a chance to watch the Bull's try to compare their height.

AFlagRules
02-21-2009, 09:19 PM
I highly doubt BC will go after Ben Gordon...

He sucks..

kenzo400
02-21-2009, 09:21 PM
Derrick Rose is 6'3".. the next time you get a chance to watch the Bull's try to compare their height.

Lol, it clearly says 6"3 on his nba profile. I don't know why they would lie and i seriously doubt they made a mistake.

carruthers32
02-21-2009, 09:23 PM
I think we shoud go after him in the offseason,Doug Smith said BC will look at him in the summer so there might be something there.He is a 20 ppg scorer and i relly like to get him so he could be our Ginobili in a way a guy that comes off the bench(Because i dont want a small dude like BG guarding the SG in the NBA) and scores 16-20 points every night,brings hustle and if BC relly wants to play run and gun i think he be a relly nice fit.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/

No way in hell he signs with us if we offer him a 6th man role!

Draco
02-21-2009, 09:24 PM
I highly doubt BC will go after Ben Gordon...

He sucks..


Lol, it clearly says 6"3 on his nba profile. I don't know why they would lie and i seriously doubt they made a mistake.

I can't decide between the posts.. which amuses me to most.

Ok guys, you win.. BG is 6'3", he sucks and BC will not think about going after him in FA. Oh, and Bosh is also staying in Tor.

B2theRY
02-21-2009, 09:30 PM
maybe its time to trade for bosh and get back 3-4 players plus picks :P

Member29
02-21-2009, 10:59 PM
What I can't understand about our fans is we're "frontin" on BG when Ap is our STARTING SG. Not only that but if not BG who else is realistically an option at SG for TO.
Ben Gordon like any if not every NBA player has his strengths and weaknesses, I'd sign him in a heartbeat because his strengths are what the Raps sorely lacks. The dude's averaging 20+ points this season, who in their right minds would say the Raps couldn't use him.

WaterBoy24
02-21-2009, 11:02 PM
The guy is useless...he doesent do nothing else...but hogggg the ball and shoot..we have 2 bad contracts...kapano and banks...why have another one...no thanks:mad:

ChitownbullsBG7
02-21-2009, 11:07 PM
he is 6'1.

And i said that he will most likely end up in Toronto because yall will get desperate to bring somebody in and BG7 will be the only thing out there for yall.

But i dont see him being a good fit unless yall run.

Draco
02-21-2009, 11:22 PM
BG is Paxson's player to sign or lose. How much more does Colangelo really have to to offer that he can't find in Chicago?

KJK
02-21-2009, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the input from the Chi Town guys! BG is a solid player, but I don't think he's what we need here at the SG spot. Personally, I don't want him here because he's undersized and a bit of a liability on D, which we have enough of. The guy can definitely fill it up though.

3lite-Raps
02-22-2009, 12:34 AM
i can seriously seeing the raptors getting the first overall pick next year in the draft. Then the draft Blake Griffin. Make some off season moves such as let Parker become free agent and voskuhl also graham and they get the money off delfino... Resign marion for prob like 10m 3 years and ron artest 10m too. and sign a backup sf or draft one in the second round to backup marion. Then are lineup would look pretty scary..

C- Blake Griffin (i know hes a pf)/ Andrea Bargnani/ Nathan Jawai
PF- Chris Bosh/ Kris Humphries/ Patrick O'Bryant
SF- Shawn Marion/ (2nd round pick selection or free agent signing
SG- Ron Artest/ Jason Kapono
PG- Jose Calderon/ Marcus Banks/ Roko Ukic

that looks pretty ELITE, i say even competitor for the title...

and also i would try to move kapono on draft day for anything we can get thats not a badd contract

WHAT DO YOU GUYS/GIRLS THINK??

Kyben36
02-22-2009, 01:17 AM
You guys are *** hole. we talk about Bosh and you guys get pissed but when you guys talk about BG we arnt suposed to. This is some realy big BS.



























Hey, Im just Kidding. You guys can have him if you can afford him.

Halladay
02-22-2009, 02:03 AM
Gordon makes no sense for this team IMO. We need more defensive players which is why O'neal then Marion were brought in. Someone like Artest seems much more logical.

kenzo400
03-12-2009, 04:26 PM
he is 6'1.

And i said that he will most likely end up in Toronto because yall will get desperate to bring somebody in and BG7 will be the only thing out there for yall.

But i dont see him being a good fit unless yall run.

Unless you can prove that the nba made a mistake he is 6'3

MaHaRaJaH
03-13-2009, 12:19 AM
He's kind of a one-way player no?
regardless, if we end up in any situation where we end up trading bosh away, i gotta say that's alot of wasted time and money.

hawkaveli
03-13-2009, 05:36 PM
HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
no BG that guy is undersized at the 2 he can't play D proper he aint a proper PG. Screw him he's a better Juan Dixon that ain't gonna help us at all. If anything he's a 6th man that plays combo but can't do it as a starter and wont help the raptors at all. He wants too much money cuz the fruits head's too big and he aint even that good screw him

BALLER R
03-13-2009, 11:41 PM
i can seriously seeing the raptors getting the first overall pick next year in the draft. Then the draft Blake Griffin. Make some off season moves such as let Parker become free agent and voskuhl also graham and they get the money off delfino... Resign marion for prob like 10m 3 years and ron artest 10m too. and sign a backup sf or draft one in the second round to backup marion. Then are lineup would look pretty scary..

C- Blake Griffin (i know hes a pf)/ Andrea Bargnani/ Nathan Jawai
PF- Chris Bosh/ Kris Humphries/ Patrick O'Bryant
SF- Shawn Marion/ (2nd round pick selection or free agent signing
SG- Ron Artest/ Jason Kapono
PG- Jose Calderon/ Marcus Banks/ Roko Ukic

that looks pretty ELITE, i say even competitor for the title...

and also i would try to move kapono on draft day for anything we can get thats not a badd contract

WHAT DO YOU GUYS/GIRLS THINK??

add a little more bench depth and andrea starts over blake...pretty good team

aman_13
03-14-2009, 10:06 PM
i can seriously seeing the raptors getting the first overall pick next year in the draft. Then the draft Blake Griffin. Make some off season moves such as let Parker become free agent and voskuhl also graham and they get the money off delfino... Resign marion for prob like 10m 3 years and ron artest 10m too. and sign a backup sf or draft one in the second round to backup marion. Then are lineup would look pretty scary..

C- Blake Griffin (i know hes a pf)/ Andrea Bargnani/ Nathan Jawai
PF- Chris Bosh/ Kris Humphries/ Patrick O'Bryant
SF- Shawn Marion/ (2nd round pick selection or free agent signing
SG- Ron Artest/ Jason Kapono
PG- Jose Calderon/ Marcus Banks/ Roko Ukic

that looks pretty ELITE, i say even competitor for the title...

and also i would try to move kapono on draft day for anything we can get thats not a badd contract

WHAT DO YOU GUYS/GIRLS THINK??

The team looks good, but i am concerned with the depth behind the wing positions. It would be pretty cool to get another number 1 pick. I mean we been through a lot of downs this year and maybe the basketball gods can help us again.

dirtybird
03-14-2009, 11:17 PM
I think we shoud go after him in the offseason,Doug Smith said BC will look at him in the summer so there might be something there.He is a 20 ppg scorer and i relly like to get him so he could be our Ginobili in a way a guy that comes off the bench(Because i dont want a small dude like BG guarding the SG in the NBA) and scores 16-20 points every night,brings hustle and if BC relly wants to play run and gun i think he be a relly nice fit.

How much is going to take to sign him?8-10 mill more or less?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon/

That backcourt would get killed nightly on defense. I figure he'll get something like $7-8M/yr. If I were the Raps, I would much rather target Marvin Williams or even Childress than Gordon. They're both excellent defenders. Gordon has a lot to be desired on that end of the court.

kantarok
03-15-2009, 08:43 AM
forget about gordon
we should get ron artest and van gundy and use
the pick on a shooting guard
and we will have a chance to go somewhere
and i dont care about artests attitude, we need him

td0tsfinest
03-15-2009, 12:29 PM
scoring is not a problem for our team. At least I don't think so, our problem is defense.

You add Gordon, you have the weakest backcourt, unless he's really down to come off the bench. Which I highly doubt it, he thinks he can start so he's going to look for a team where he can start.

raptor25rs
03-30-2009, 01:34 PM
If BC can get Gordon, that would be great, we definitely could use another legitimate scoring option

AFlagRules
03-30-2009, 02:38 PM
Ben Gordon plays no defense. We don't need him.

BBadger1989
03-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Pass on Gordon... His D is way to weak... People have said it before and it for sure the move the Raps need to make and that is to try and sign Artest.

Frank Costanza
03-30-2009, 03:15 PM
ben was licking shats at the acc on sunday

pebloemer
03-30-2009, 03:27 PM
i can seriously seeing the raptors getting the first overall pick next year in the draft. Then the draft Blake Griffin. Make some off season moves such as let Parker become free agent and voskuhl also graham and they get the money off delfino... Resign marion for prob like 10m 3 years and ron artest 10m too. and sign a backup sf or draft one in the second round to backup marion. Then are lineup would look pretty scary..

C- Blake Griffin (i know hes a pf)/ Andrea Bargnani/ Nathan Jawai
PF- Chris Bosh/ Kris Humphries/ Patrick O'Bryant
SF- Shawn Marion/ (2nd round pick selection or free agent signing
SG- Ron Artest/ Jason Kapono
PG- Jose Calderon/ Marcus Banks/ Roko Ukic

that looks pretty ELITE, i say even competitor for the title...

and also i would try to move kapono on draft day for anything we can get thats not a badd contract

WHAT DO YOU GUYS/GIRLS THINK??

Got an inside connection with the gods of chance? Currently, the team is 8th last in the league. That would leave the team with a 2.8% chance of getting the first overall pick... What information are you looking at that you can seriously see that happen?

mike_noodles
03-30-2009, 03:44 PM
I would pass on signing Ben Gordon, you would have to renounce the rights to all of our own free agents to be able to sign him and I really don't see how Gordon and a handful of scrubs make our team any better. If he were to come as part of a Bosh deal, I wouldn't mind having him.

mike_noodles
03-30-2009, 03:50 PM
i can seriously seeing the raptors getting the first overall pick next year in the draft. Then the draft Blake Griffin. Make some off season moves such as let Parker become free agent and voskuhl also graham and they get the money off delfino... Resign marion for prob like 10m 3 years and ron artest 10m too. and sign a backup sf or draft one in the second round to backup marion. Then are lineup would look pretty scary..

C- Blake Griffin (i know hes a pf)/ Andrea Bargnani/ Nathan Jawai
PF- Chris Bosh/ Kris Humphries/ Patrick O'Bryant
SF- Shawn Marion/ (2nd round pick selection or free agent signing
SG- Ron Artest/ Jason Kapono
PG- Jose Calderon/ Marcus Banks/ Roko Ukic

that looks pretty ELITE, i say even competitor for the title...

and also i would try to move kapono on draft day for anything we can get thats not a badd contract

WHAT DO YOU GUYS/GIRLS THINK??

I'm pretty sure that the only way the Raps have $10m to spend on Artest is if they renounce the rights to Shawn Marion and why the **** would you pay Ron-Ron $10m per???

GodsSon
03-30-2009, 09:58 PM
I would pass on signing Ben Gordon, you would have to renounce the rights to all of our own free agents to be able to sign him and I really don't see how Gordon and a handful of scrubs make our team any better. If he were to come as part of a Bosh deal, I wouldn't mind having him.

not unless he agrees to sign for the MLE :) lol

Raptor-54
03-30-2009, 10:08 PM
gorden will be a great pick up

Bulls_fan90
03-31-2009, 12:48 AM
Winner is the key there we need players on the Raps that want to win relly bad

Last one is Ben Gordon a Clutch player and can he be a go to guy?

He is clutch. When he gets going he's one of the best players (offensively) in the league. To put it simply some nights you'll love what he brings (can easily go off for 30-50pts) other nights you'll hate him (bad shot selection/turnovers). And yes he can be the go to guy, he's one of the best shooters in the league.

Member29
03-31-2009, 10:13 AM
Those of you who right him off bec he's 6'3 are ...... I'll refrain from my comment. As a long time Bulls fan, and someone who actually watches every Bull game on the internet or my dish, which ever is showing it, I can tell you he is not a great defender but a good one despite his size. Andddddd most importantly, the guy actually works very hard on defense unlike many other NBA stars who have the size and strength to do better but don't try. He does get posted up sometimes and beaten off the dribble sometimes but please tell me who in the NBA doesn't? He's undersize but far from lazy on defense, you guys should get a SG next year like Parker and Kapono who have the size and strength but flat out suck. I'd rather take an undersize SG who works his *** off on D and gets beaten sometimes but still puts up 20+ ppg. AND he's a winner, say what u want about his game, the guys has BALLS and he's a flat out competitor. Hey let's not go after him and end up with Delfino's 8ppg and inconsistency or Parker's 11ppg and ageing bones or Jason Kapono anyone? Who else is out there guys? Please tell me your plan for filling the SG spot next year, I'd love to hear it.

LD V2.0
03-31-2009, 10:25 AM
Monta Ellis and Leandro Barbosa are both 6'3" and it doesn't seem to slow them down...Neither are good defenders though.

Rapthug
03-31-2009, 11:19 AM
I can see BG as a guy we'd have a real love/relationship with. The guy is a flat out shooter that can light it up with the best of them. On D, I don't think we would see much of a drop off. We really overrate AP's defensive abilities.

I wouldn't mind if it happens but I'd be concerned at what cost.

AFlagRules
03-31-2009, 11:45 AM
That 3lite-Raps guy is an even bigger joker than that Wise guy.

1. 2.8% of getting #1..hmm...
2. Starting Blake Griffin over Andrea Bargnani is comical to say the least :).
3. Ron Artest ANNNNND Shawn Marion..With what money?

mike_noodles
03-31-2009, 11:46 AM
Please tell me your plan for filling the SG spot next year, I'd love to hear it.

Hopefully James Harden.

SpeedyRecovery
03-31-2009, 12:04 PM
Hopefully James Harden.

Ya James would be our best and most probable pick. :smoking:

katman
03-31-2009, 12:29 PM
Based ~ 8th, more likely Henderson. Like him better anyways, play defense.

Member29
03-31-2009, 12:40 PM
Hopefully James Harden.

I think Harden is going to be a bust. He's not athletic, quick and strong enough to be an elite player in the NBA. He payed college ball in a weak conference and looked good against mediocre opposition. I'd still draft him because he's going to have a place on anyteam (he doesn't flat out suck or anything), but he's not going to be better than Ben Gordon.

hades
03-31-2009, 02:45 PM
this thread is amazing. If the Raptors got Ben then I can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

31995 posts.

ill take your word for it.

HoopsMachine
04-21-2009, 05:58 AM
After watching the wildly entertaining Game 2 of Boston vs. Chicago and seeing Gordon make big shot after big shot in his duel with Allen I can say he is definitely a player that would give us that coveted go-to scorer on the perimeter. His height is obviously a disadvantage but he is still a solid defender. If we bring Parker back next season we can have him play point on offense and guard the 2 on defense.

Shaolin
04-21-2009, 07:33 AM
^ yes.

Would have liked to see the Bulls win that one though - I hate the closeups on KG spouting crap to the opposing team. Toughness my *****...that's no-class.

LD V2.0
04-21-2009, 11:17 PM
this thread is amazing. If the Raptors got Ben then I can guarntee you that a year from now most of the people on here would be ripping him and saying his contract has sunk the team.

He's better than Crawford. At least he plays more within the concept of "team". I'm interested in how much you think he's going to get and that's not asking you what you think he's worth.

Bob_at_york
04-22-2009, 12:07 AM
He's better than Crawford. At least he plays more within the concept of "team". I'm interested in how much you think he's going to get and that's not asking you what you think he's worth.

5 years starting at 8.5 (approx)

LD V2.0
04-22-2009, 12:24 AM
So the same deal Jose got? That's not outrageous and its a contract that would not be too difficult to move down the road.

akesh99
04-22-2009, 12:39 AM
I think an offensive tandem of Bosh and Gordon would be pretty scary! We need a quick wing player who can create his own shot and Gordon is exactly that. Yes he is undersized, but his scoring upside is too great for me to pass on. If we let Marion walk and bring in some less expensive options at the 3 like Josh Childress or Marvin Williams I think we could potentially be a top 5 team in the east.

GodsSon
04-22-2009, 12:54 AM
Well Graham will be on the outs for sure, and the 3.4 mil we save on that could be used on Delfino, since it seems BC is intent on bringing him back...AP will most likely be brought back, and i hope Marion will...supposing those 3 transactions do take place, all we would really have left is the MLE, and unfortunately, i dont see Gordon accepting that to come here

Bob_at_york
04-22-2009, 07:22 AM
So the same deal Jose got? That's not outrageous and its a contract that would not be too difficult to move down the road.

In this economy and with the production I expect from Gordon, i think it would be tough to move.

katman
04-22-2009, 08:31 AM
Well Graham will be on the outs for sure, and the 3.4 mil we save on that could be used on Delfino, since it seems BC is intent on bringing him back...AP will most likely be brought back, and i hope Marion will...supposing those 3 transactions do take place, all we would really have left is the MLE, and unfortunately, i dont see Gordon accepting that to come here

I don't think thats how it works. If you have cap space more than the MLE, you don't get the MLE. The MLE is for when you are over the cap on July 1st with committed salaries and cap holds.

Our cap space is the amount we have to sign a free agent. Because Delfino is restricted we can resign him if we go over the cap but he has a cap hold on us.

LD V2.0
04-22-2009, 10:22 AM
In this economy and with the production I expect from Gordon, i think it would be tough to move.

Well I think he would come in a little less than that and I believe he would be a perfect fit for the team, should they draft a forward.

kanersen
04-22-2009, 10:50 AM
not sure whats up with all the recent ben gordon love
i for one have always thought he is the wrong fit on this team
yes he is a good iso player, but the phrase 'ball movement' seems lost on him
thats not what we need, thats not what fits in with the flow of this team
not to mention the backcourt defence of calderon and BG is not one i'd care to see through a full season

GodsSon
04-22-2009, 11:45 AM
I don't think thats how it works. If you have cap space more than the MLE, you don't get the MLE. The MLE is for when you are over the cap on July 1st with committed salaries and cap holds.

Our cap space is the amount we have to sign a free agent. Because Delfino is restricted we can resign him if we go over the cap but he has a cap hold on us.

yes, but i expect us to be over the cap...and im pretty sure BC said he would exercise the MLE in his press conference.

LD V2.0
04-22-2009, 12:03 PM
not sure whats up with all the recent ben gordon love
i for one have always thought he is the wrong fit on this team
yes he is a good iso player, but the phrase 'ball movement' seems lost on him
thats not what we need, thats not what fits in with the flow of this team
not to mention the backcourt defence of calderon and BG is not one i'd care to see through a full season

They're not going to find the perfect player. They need a guard who can break guys down. Gordon plays some PG, he fits within the team concept.

kanersen
04-22-2009, 02:58 PM
i disagree LD
i'm not denying that BG can break people down, he can do that quite well

but the team concept i see here is ball movement...and ball movement and BG don't go hand in hand
dude is a black hole on offence....he does alot of things well offensively, but ball movement is not one of them

The Wise 1
04-22-2009, 04:29 PM
After watching the wildly entertaining Game 2 of Boston vs. Chicago and seeing Gordon make big shot after big shot in his duel with Allen I can say he is definitely a player that would give us that coveted go-to scorer on the perimeter. His height is obviously a disadvantage but he is still a solid defender. If we bring Parker back next season we can have him play point on offense and guard the 2 on defense.

That was the main reason why I didnt think Gordon would be a good fit with the Raps. With the emergence of AP being able to play the 1, maybe we could have BG come off the bench and then bring him in and have AP play the point. Only problem with that is is another year or 2 after that when Parker is gone, we will have to find another 1 that can guard 2's.


i disagree LD
i'm not denying that BG can break people down, he can do that quite well

but the team concept i see here is ball movement...and ball movement and BG don't go hand in hand
dude is a black hole on offence....he does alot of things well offensively, but ball movement is not one of them

But really, how many go to scorers who might be actually available are known for ball movement? Im guessing if there are some, they would be known for there shooting ability and not there ability to get into the lane.

LD V2.0
04-22-2009, 07:23 PM
i disagree LD
i'm not denying that BG can break people down, he can do that quite well

but the team concept i see here is ball movement...and ball movement and BG don't go hand in hand
dude is a black hole on offence....he does alot of things well offensively, but ball movement is not one of them

Everyone agrees that the team needs a guy at the two or three who can break guys down and create his own shots. The reason people are known for being able to do such a thing is because they do such a thing. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We're not talking about a player who shoots it every time the ball comes to him. He didn't take anymore shots per game than Chris Bosh did this season and I don't see you criticizing him.

ramz.n
04-22-2009, 11:30 PM
i disagree LD
i'm not denying that BG can break people down, he can do that quite well

but the team concept i see here is ball movement...and ball movement and BG don't go hand in hand
dude is a black hole on offence....he does alot of things well offensively, but ball movement is not one of them

well when u say hes a black hole..i dont see that as a bad thing...with him sucking other players to him bosh and bargnani wont get double teamed as much..and jose has a better chance of breaking his man and getting to the basket..all we really need is a consistent knock down shooter who will keep the defense honest..a guy who can play defense..a guy who can create his own shot and a guy to get the double team away from CB4 (BG).

kanersen
04-23-2009, 02:33 AM
That was the main reason why I didnt think Gordon would be a good fit with the Raps. With the emergence of AP being able to play the 1, maybe we could have BG come off the bench and then bring him in and have AP play the point. Only problem with that is is another year or 2 after that when Parker is gone, we will have to find another 1 that can guard 2's.



But really, how many go to scorers who might be actually available are known for ball movement? Im guessing if there are some, they would be known for there shooting ability and not there ability to get into the lane.

i agree that elite 1on1 scorers tend to have the ball in their hands more often then the norm, but BG's penchant for excessive ball control is alarming

i mean i wouldn't mind as much if he drove or created on the drive predominantly, but his individual forays more then not consist of a variety of offbalance/step back jumpers or leaning pullup jumpers in the paint after penetrating the first wave of defence

granted when he's on he hits both of those consistantly, to the point where it feels like he can't miss...but its rather aggravating to watch when those shots are not falling

i'd rather have an elite creator that can work without the ball predominantly in his hand

leandro barbosa has as much creativity as BG, and he doesn't have to iso every time he gets the ball in his hands to do so
i guess the same can be said for 2's such as nate robinson, brandon roy, von wafer to just name some ontop of my head
all of whom have as much iso breakdown and penetration skills as BG without making it seem like sometimes a string of offensive possesions feel like 1 vs 5

kanersen
04-23-2009, 02:47 AM
Everyone agrees that the team needs a guy at the two or three who can break guys down and create his own shots. The reason people are known for being able to do such a thing is because they do such a thing. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We're not talking about a player who shoots it every time the ball comes to him. He didn't take anymore shots per game than Chris Bosh did this season and I don't see you criticizing him.


just to be fair, i've given my fair share of criticism of bosh on this forum for alot of things including his shot selection

also, i'd also like to say that its my opinion (which is not necessarily fact) that i feel a hell of alot safer watching bosh in alot of his iso plays compared to the some of the stretches of iso plays that BG runs.

Even when bosh is bullheaded and iso's in the high/low post on multiple consecutive posessions, he has fewer defenders to beat or put up with mostly due to him operating behind opposing enemy guards...as well as having the range to draw clumsier front court players far enough where its uncomfortable for them, thus leaving him at an advantage to either drive from the highpost to the bucket or shoot over them


when BG gets bullheaded he has to not only beat guards who are used to defending on the perimeter, but also the next wave of big men guarding the paint if he splits the initial defence of the guards

the result is a mix of long range off the dribble iso jumpshots if he can't penetrate the guards, or pullup leaner jumpshots if he does penetrate the guards but is comfronted by bigmen coming in the lane to contest the shot

mjt20mik
04-23-2009, 03:43 AM
+1

I would relly like Artest and he likes Toronto but not sure how realistic he is considering BC is high on Character guys.Ben Gordon seems to be more realistic considering we are week at the wing and he is a pretty good scorer..

BC also wants Toughness. Artest = toughness.

HoopsMachine
04-23-2009, 05:33 AM
just to be fair, i've given my fair share of criticism of bosh on this forum for alot of things including his shot selection

also, i'd also like to say that its my opinion (which is not necessarily fact) that i feel a hell of alot safer watching bosh in alot of his iso plays compared to the some of the stretches of iso plays that BG runs.

Even when bosh is bullheaded and iso's in the high/low post on multiple consecutive posessions, he has fewer defenders to beat or put up with mostly due to him operating behind opposing enemy guards...as well as having the range to draw clumsier front court players far enough where its uncomfortable for them, thus leaving him at an advantage to either drive from the highpost to the bucket or shoot over them


when BG gets bullheaded he has to not only beat guards who are used to defending on the perimeter, but also the next wave of big men guarding the paint if he splits the initial defence of the guards

the result is a mix of long range off the dribble iso jumpshots if he can't penetrate the guards, or pullup leaner jumpshots if he does penetrate the guards but is comfronted by bigmen coming in the lane to contest the shot

You pretend like those help defenders are guarding no one else. Last time I checked we had some pretty good shooters that could space the floor. Also you illustrate the point that no one on this team can do which is drawing doubles on the perimeter.

LD V2.0
04-23-2009, 12:21 PM
The team needs a guy who can break defenses down. If you(kanersen) disagree with that point then fine. However if you agree with it then you can't have it both ways. If the team finds a big time scoring guard he's going to be taking 15 shots a game.

greg_ory_2005
04-23-2009, 05:16 PM
The team needs a guy who can break defenses down. If you(kanersen) disagree with that point then fine. However if you agree with it then you can't have it both ways. If the team finds a big time scoring guard he's going to be taking 15 shots a game.

Agreed.

nearyG
04-23-2009, 05:39 PM
I like the idea of both artest and gordon...or prince and gordon...

maybe sign and trade marion for gordon...try and clear some space and sign artest

they would both make an immediate impact...bens a guy who makes big shots, creates his own shot, drives to the basket and can break down a defense...artest on the other hand is the best perimeter defender in the league and can also create on his own and get to the basket...oh and these guys can both get to the line...they do a lot that we lack...this scenario is very possible...if you can get rid of kapono or banks...we will have approximately 23 million freed up + the mid level exception (approx. 5 mill) that would probably cover an entry level contract of a 1st and 2nd round pick...ben gordon will probably command about what he's getting paid now with the bulls (8-10 million a season) while artest will probably be the big winner this summer getting between 9.5-11.5 mill a season ...althought these moves would cap us out...they would drastically change the outlook of the team...its possible we may even have enough money to re-sign rasho and delfino to add to the depth of the roster...

think of:

C Bargs/Rasho
PF Bosh/Hump
SF Artest/Delfino/Kapono(get rid of him for a pick if possible)
SG Gordon/Tyreke Evans(9th pick)/Delfino
PG Calderon/Roko/AJ Price(2nd round pick)

Inactive: O'Bryant, Jawai, Banks (try to move or buyout)

td0tsfinest
04-23-2009, 05:43 PM
ben gordon is a scorer, thats what he does. But, IMO, i don't think the raptors need another scorer. Bosh and Bargnani have been averaging over 40+ pts a game for majority of the season.
We really need to focus on our defense. Bring in guys that can shut down perimeter players and help contain some of the best players in this league.

ramz.n
04-23-2009, 05:55 PM
ben gordon is a scorer, thats what he does. But, IMO, i don't think the raptors need another scorer. Bosh and Bargnani have been averaging over 40+ pts a game for majority of the season.
We really need to focus on our defense. Bring in guys that can shut down perimeter players and help contain some of the best players in this league.

doesn't the name Artest kind of address that as well as being able to score on offense???

td0tsfinest
04-23-2009, 06:22 PM
doesn't the name Artest kind of address that as well as being able to score on offense???

I though this was a ben gordon thread?

Ben Gordon believes he's a starter in this league and if you actually have BG start, we might just have one of the weakest back-court defensively. Yeah Jose is healthy now but he's still far from being a great defender.

JimmyRome
04-23-2009, 06:29 PM
Two words!

Stephan Curry!!!

greg_ory_2005
04-23-2009, 06:43 PM
ben gordon is a scorer, thats what he does. But, IMO, i don't think the raptors need another scorer. Bosh and Bargnani have been averaging over 40+ pts a game for majority of the season.
We really need to focus on our defense. Bring in guys that can shut down perimeter players and help contain some of the best players in this league.

Yes, both CB and Bargs are good scorers. But Bosh has shown his inability to hit shots at crunch time or in clutch situations this year, something Gordon would help us with tremendously.

WaterBoy24
04-23-2009, 06:57 PM
No Ben Gordon...we don't need that...

td0tsfinest
04-23-2009, 08:18 PM
Yes, both CB and Bargs are good scorers. But Bosh has shown his inability to hit shots at crunch time or in clutch situations this year, something Gordon would help us with tremendously.

I have to disagree man. Ben Gordon is a good player but the way this team is built right now, I rather look for someone else.

kenzo400
04-23-2009, 10:52 PM
Yes both Andrea and Bosh can score but we don't have a single other player who can put up good numbers. Shawn Marion while he is a great defender, is very streaky in his scoring. Ben Gordon would be an excellent addition to the team and lets be realistic it's not like we can get much better in the free agency. Dwayne Wade isn't going to come to Toronto.

kenzo400
04-23-2009, 11:02 PM
BG is Paxson's player to sign or lose. How much more does Colangelo really have to to offer that he can't find in Chicago?

There were a lot of rumours of Chicago not wanting to sign Ben Gordon, which is why they made the trade for Salmons. He does virtually everything that Ben Gordon does. Plus he only makes about 6 million. I don't know if these is any truth to this, but Paxson has been known to be a cheap ***.

kanersen
04-24-2009, 01:37 AM
The team needs a guy who can break defenses down. If you(kanersen) disagree with that point then fine. However if you agree with it then you can't have it both ways. If the team finds a big time scoring guard he's going to be taking 15 shots a game.

i agree we need help breaking players down opposing defences on the perimeter

i just think Ben Gordon is the wrong kind of help

kanersen
04-24-2009, 01:38 AM
You pretend like those help defenders are guarding no one else. Last time I checked we had some pretty good shooters that could space the floor. Also you illustrate the point that no one on this team can do which is drawing doubles on the perimeter.

defenders are quick to help when BG has the ball quite simply because he just doesn't pass nearly enough when he's on an iso

kanersen
04-24-2009, 10:20 AM
whats the use of drawing doubles when you rarely pass to the open man^

Glenfidish
04-24-2009, 11:16 AM
1. Do not sighn Ben Gordon.
2. We need to address the Sg or Sf defender status first.
3. If Marion leaves then we need to go after a top 5 defender in this league.
4. Here they are in order. 1.Artest 2. Bowen 3. Caron Butler 4. Raja Bell 5. Tyshun Prince
5. The best choice and chance to Land= Ron Artest
6. He will come with the same price tag as Marion.
7. But comes with more tools to the workplace.

Its funny when i hear people and the Media talk about how artest would be to risky to bring here. He comes with a baggage. Let me tell you what baggage this guy comes with. He is a fierce competitor who will mix it up with anyone and from time to time wil get t'd up. He is a guy who will throw gasoline in the locker room and light it up when needed. And that is whats risky? Last time i checked thats the recipe to success physically and mentaly. Thats what this locker room needs a guy like that who will get in bosh and Bargnani mojo and let them know how it is the old school way. I would pull the trigger in a heart beat although houston will put up a fight in the $$$$. But guess what we have more.

Lastly you use our 9th pick+ Humpries 2 second rounders and some cash and you move up into the top 5 picks.. Therefore landing you the all star shooting guard who will be the future of this team in De MarDerozan.. This is the steal by far of the draft. He withought a doubt will be the next kobe or wade.. He is under the radar at the moment but after training camp i think he will qickly move up that latter and pass Harden. Second best choice is James Harden who is not explosive like demar. Please colangelo get De Mar and this team will be sick.

Line up
1. Jose/Veteran point guard/Ukic
2.DeRozan/Parker/Kapono
3.Artest/Delfino
4.Bosh/Mensa Bonsu/Veteran banger on the boards
5.Bargnani/Chandler if you go over the cap
Suit and tie=Banks,Jawai

dtmagnet
04-24-2009, 11:53 AM
A couple of problems with the above post, firstly I would say Battier is the best guard/forward defender in the league but you're right Artest is right up there. I would say out of Shawn Marion and Ron Artest the better chance of signing and better choice to sign is Shawn Marion. I also beleive Artest will cost more than Marion, and will be harder to pry away from a successful team in Houston. Also if you are concerned about Ben Gordon being a defensive liability then what do you think Derozan will be, he also may not be ready to come out of the draft and be a starter immediately.

Glenfidish
04-24-2009, 12:20 PM
I agree with you that Marion is the better shot that we have of the two at sighning. However we should have an alternative option and that should be artest if Marion walks. And if Colangelo is serious about winning now to retain Bosh we go after Artest regardless of what it cost. Do you really think we cant be a winning team with the Big three alongside artest and a solid sg? Colangelo could sell it to him!

As for De Mar Derozan would you not agree more upside than any off those other players being thrown out there who we both know would not take us to the promise land? Ex. Gordon, Jackson, who everelse..

I think if you resighn Marion or artest Bosh would not mind a De Mar, besides Bosh is still extremely young and so Andrea and calderon. It takes time. But if he works out could be one of those rookie of the years who know.

What do you think of my reserves like chandler any shot at getting him?

td0tsfinest
04-24-2009, 12:26 PM
Line up
1. Jose/Veteran point guard/Ukic
2.DeRozan/Parker/Kapono
3.Artest/Delfino
4.Bosh/Mensa Bonsu/Veteran banger on the boards
5.Bargnani/Chandler if you go over the cap
Suit and tie=Banks,Jawai

Are we talking about Tyson Chandler or some next chandler? And if it is Tyson, how do you expect to get him.

raptor25rs
04-24-2009, 12:43 PM
1. Do not sighn Ben Gordon.
2. We need to address the Sg or Sf defender status first.
3. If Marion leaves then we need to go after a top 5 defender in this league.
4. Here they are in order. 1.Artest 2. Bowen 3. Caron Butler 4. Raja Bell 5. Tyshun Prince
5. The best choice and chance to Land= Ron Artest
6. He will come with the same price tag as Marion.
7. But comes with more tools to the workplace.

Its funny when i hear people and the Media talk about how artest would be to risky to bring here. He comes with a baggage. Let me tell you what baggage this guy comes with. He is a fierce competitor who will mix it up with anyone and from time to time wil get t'd up. He is a guy who will throw gasoline in the locker room and light it up when needed. And that is whats risky? Last time i checked thats the recipe to success physically and mentaly. Thats what this locker room needs a guy like that who will get in bosh and Bargnani mojo and let them know how it is the old school way. I would pull the trigger in a heart beat although houston will put up a fight in the $$$$. But guess what we have more.

Lastly you use our 9th pick+ Humpries 2 second rounders and some cash and you move up into the top 5 picks.. Therefore landing you the all star shooting guard who will be the future of this team in De MarDerozan.. This is the steal by far of the draft. He withought a doubt will be the next kobe or wade.. He is under the radar at the moment but after training camp i think he will qickly move up that latter and pass Harden. Second best choice is James Harden who is not explosive like demar. Please colangelo get De Mar and this team will be sick.

Line up
1. Jose/Veteran point guard/Ukic
2.DeRozan/Parker/Kapono
3.Artest/Delfino
4.Bosh/Mensa Bonsu/Veteran banger on the boards
5.Bargnani/Chandler if you go over the cap
Suit and tie=Banks,Jawai


If Artest and Marion both wanted to be in a raptors uni next season I would pick Artest, just because he's also a good reliable scoring threat, plus he brings a toughness that the raps haven't had since Oakley

Glenfidish
04-24-2009, 04:22 PM
Thanks for the response. Thats what im trying to get at. Artest brings more tools and overall package than Marion. His toughness is second to none and everything else i posted. But its his on court and off court that recipe that is what we all have been talking about on the fan 590 that this team lacks.. Personally I go as far as 12 million if needed to get him on a 4 year..

And yes it was tyson Chandler i was talking about going after. Have you seen him in these playoffs, chicago should never have let him go. You ask me how we would get him.. That would be the one of those moves that yes would put you over the cap, but that colangelo promised would be done if needed to be a true contender. Lets see if he has the true power from mls as stated to pull that off..

greg_ory_2005
04-24-2009, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the response. Thats what im trying to get at. Artest brings more tools and overall package than Marion. His toughness is second to none and everything else i posted. But its his on court and off court that recipe that is what we all have been talking about on the fan 590 that this team lacks.. Personally I go as far as 12 million if needed to get him on a 4 year..

And yes it was tyson Chandler i was talking about going after. Have you seen him in these playoffs, chicago should never have let him go. You ask me how we would get him.. That would be the one of those moves that yes would put you over the cap, but that colangelo promised would be done if needed to be a true contender. Lets see if he has the true power from mls as stated to pull that off..

Who do you expect to give up to get Chandler?

ramz.n
04-24-2009, 07:14 PM
1. Do not sighn Ben Gordon.
2. We need to address the Sg or Sf defender status first.
3. If Marion leaves then we need to go after a top 5 defender in this league.
4. Here they are in order. 1.Artest 2. Bowen 3. Caron Butler 4. Raja Bell 5. Tyshun Prince
5. The best choice and chance to Land= Ron Artest
6. He will come with the same price tag as Marion.
7. But comes with more tools to the workplace.

Its funny when i hear people and the Media talk about how artest would be to risky to bring here. He comes with a baggage. Let me tell you what baggage this guy comes with. He is a fierce competitor who will mix it up with anyone and from time to time wil get t'd up. He is a guy who will throw gasoline in the locker room and light it up when needed. And that is whats risky? Last time i checked thats the recipe to success physically and mentaly. Thats what this locker room needs a guy like that who will get in bosh and Bargnani mojo and let them know how it is the old school way. I would pull the trigger in a heart beat although houston will put up a fight in the $$$$. But guess what we have more.

Lastly you use our 9th pick+ Humpries 2 second rounders and some cash and you move up into the top 5 picks.. Therefore landing you the all star shooting guard who will be the future of this team in De MarDerozan.. This is the steal by far of the draft. He withought a doubt will be the next kobe or wade.. He is under the radar at the moment but after training camp i think he will qickly move up that latter and pass Harden. Second best choice is James Harden who is not explosive like demar. Please colangelo get De Mar and this team will be sick.

Line up
1. Jose/Veteran point guard/Ukic
2.DeRozan/Parker/Kapono
3.Artest/Delfino
4.Bosh/Mensa Bonsu/Veteran banger on the boards
5.Bargnani/Chandler if you go over the cap
Suit and tie=Banks,Jawai


A couple of problems with the above post, firstly I would say Battier is the best guard/forward defender in the league but you're right Artest is right up there. I would say out of Shawn Marion and Ron Artest the better chance of signing and better choice to sign is Shawn Marion. I also beleive Artest will cost more than Marion, and will be harder to pry away from a successful team in Houston. Also if you are concerned about Ben Gordon being a defensive liability then what do you think Derozan will be, he also may not be ready to come out of the draft and be a starter immediately.

i would put Ronnie Brewer up there in that class now..he played great defense on kobe and is underrated.

Glenfidish
04-24-2009, 07:46 PM
good scouting report ramz he should be up there as well slipped by me.. But I guess we can all agree those guys are needed for a championship run.. They may not stop the opossing teams superstar guard but they will definately contain and hold there fort. Thats all you need with a team like the raptors.. Are guys can flat out score.

What do you guys think about sending kapono to new orleans and getting back Tyson chandlet. They save about 4.5/5 million next year and we get an awesome back up center to Andrea or vice versa.. New Orleans needs to desperately get rid of big contracts..

Member29
04-26-2009, 10:10 PM
Anyone see Ben Gordon Cluch shot after cluch shot after clutch shot. One of the commentators described him as one of the top scorers in the league and one of the toughest guards in the game right now. It's still beyond me why ppl in this forum would rather have Delfino, Von Wafer and Josh Childress for rxample as our starting SG next year. If we can trade for a better SG than Ben Gordon then I'm all for that but if he's available as a FA and we can sign him at a reasonable price, why not?

GodsSon
04-26-2009, 11:13 PM
^ unfortunately those same clutch performances are raising his overall value exponentially...reducing our chance at getting him at the same time

LD V2.0
04-26-2009, 11:38 PM
Ben Gordon being clutch isn't a new revelation. Its been well known since he entered the league.

Moving on, here is a little refresher of the past year:

Oct. 2008

For the second straight year, Gordon enters the season in search of a new contract. Unable to negotiate a long-term deal with Chicago last summer after rejecting the Bulls' offer of $58 million over six years, the shooting guard signed a one-year, $6.4 million qualifying offer that will make him an unrestricted free agent next summer. At that time, the Bulls may be able to parlay a sign-and-trade with another team; until then, Gordon appears stuck in Chicago because his contract status makes him virtually untradable.
SI.com (http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1147815/index.htm)

Consider these facts:

- Half the league needed to take a loan this year to make it through the season. Its because of the poor economy. Teams are losing money.
- The league salary cap is going down.
- Ben Gordon tried to leverage a deal last off-season and failed, as posted in the above clip. He failed to get what he wanted and failed even more so in not realizing what he wanted was unrealistic.

I seriously think his value is no larger than it was last off-season. He was at his max then and he won't even get that this off-season.

GodsSon
04-26-2009, 11:43 PM
^ like i've said before, I want Gordon...but if we re-sign Marion, AP, bring back Delfino plus our draft pick then all we can offer him is the MLE...and im not so sure that would be enough to get him, even amidst the economic downturn.

LD V2.0
04-26-2009, 11:49 PM
No but if Marion walks they will have enough to make Gordon a competitive offer above the MLE.

Sn1ch_Turna
04-27-2009, 10:33 AM
No but if Marion walks they will have enough to make Gordon a competitive offer above the MLE.

why let marion walk without a S/T ... theres no guarentee we're gonna land Gordon, id say its too risky to just let marion walk for nothing.

GodsSon
04-27-2009, 11:24 AM
why let marion walk without a S/T ... theres no guarentee we're gonna land Gordon, id say its too risky to just let marion walk for nothing.

+1...if we get Gordon at the cost of letting Marion walk for nothing, then I would say BG isnt worth it...now the two of them together is a different story, and hope it happens; but for that to take place, MLSE is going to have to cross luxury tax territory (which they've said they would do in the past).

katman
04-27-2009, 01:29 PM
why let marion walk without a S/T ... theres no guarentee we're gonna land Gordon, id say its too risky to just let marion walk for nothing.

Either, you take Marion or S&T him away. In which case the players coming back eat up your cap room and all you can offer Gordon is an MLE. Or, you renounce Marion's rights gain back the cap flexibility and offer Gordon a competitive contract. You cannot do both.

LD V2.0
04-27-2009, 01:34 PM
why let marion walk without a S/T ... theres no guarentee we're gonna land Gordon, id say its too risky to just let marion walk for nothing.

Most free agents leave without a sign and trade. I'm not sure where I said let Marion leave?

dtmagnet
04-27-2009, 04:27 PM
Doing a S+T is useless if you don't get something you want, otherwise you just let the guy walk.

LD V2.0
04-27-2009, 05:55 PM
I think its more along the lines of the players wanting to go to the team in question and that team being willing to give up something of worth in return that's not going to serve a dead weight on the salary cap...You know, like Kapono and Banks are for the Raptors.

Sn1ch_Turna
04-28-2009, 10:01 AM
Most free agents leave without a sign and trade. I'm not sure where I said let Marion leave?

Yeah if marion decides to walk (which i think he will be advised NOT to do) then hes going to take a huge pay cut probably around the MLE on a playoff team. If he doesnt use his position on the raps, to get a S/T done then hes obviously gonna get a lot less on the free market, and the raps will essentially have to fill spots thru UFA's or overpay RFA's. IMO its in the best interest for both parties to S/T if re-signing him doesnt work...

Raptor Analyst
04-28-2009, 12:11 PM
Do you really think Ben Gordon would come to Toronto to come off the bench. I dont think so.

katman
04-28-2009, 12:12 PM
Genrally a S&T is used when a player wants a max deal, not when a player is going to have their salary significantly drop like Marions. Really don't expect a S&T to happen with Marion.

Not only that, we shouldn't wait around until he decides what deal he wants either, determine if he's going to re-signs or not. It makes a big difference if you go into free agency with cap room or are limited to the MLE and the bi-annual exception. If this lingers too long you might have money with no one good to spend it on.

GodsSon
04-28-2009, 06:13 PM
Do you really think Ben Gordon would come to Toronto to come off the bench. I dont think so.

Thats the thing, he wouldnt be coming off the bench...he'd be our starting 2, with AP at back-up duties.

LD V2.0
04-28-2009, 11:19 PM
I agree. Why on Earth would Ben Gordon come off the bench in Toronto? The only guy on his level at the guard positions is Jose Calderon, everyone else is in the dust.

1-800-STFU
04-28-2009, 11:36 PM
The offense stops when his hands get on the ball, he is a amazing shotmaker but damn the guy just chucks, doesn't know when to pass, and doesn't play great D.

kidfury
04-29-2009, 07:41 AM
The offense stops when his hands get on the ball, he is a amazing shotmaker but damn the guy just chucks, doesn't know when to pass, and doesn't play great D.

I don't know if the offense complete stops 100% of the time cuz he does pass but he also sometimes forgets about his team mates. Atm I'm not confident with Bosh having the final shot in a close game, Gordon could be great but from what I've seen of him he gets tunnel vision sometimes and completely has his mindset on throwing up a shot not even considering passing the ball. If he were to come to the Raps, I'm sure many of us watching the games would be jumping off of the couch cheering for him sometimes and other times cursing him. MLE or possibly slightly more then I think he'd be worth signing.

Glenfidish
04-29-2009, 11:50 AM
I say no to Ben Gordan! If it seems shady thats cause it is. Too many people on this forum already with mixed emotions about him.. Thats cause he is not that piece of a bigger puzzle that will get you to the finals..

And as for he is what we need, not true.. What we need is a sg at 6"5" to 6"6" that will musle his way into the paint at any time.. Who will rebound and average 5-7 boards every night. And at Sf we need another 6"5"-6"7" hard nose defender that will bump you around when needed.

My picks remain the same.S&t Marion if he wants to go for Artest or Battier+Scola That would be the SF position at 6"6"

And draft DeRozan,Tyreke,harden at sg also 6"6"

Remeber that the nba is always evolving! Gone are the days of the 6"3-6"4 sg.. There bigger and meaner then ever before. Look at lebron and anthony that is the new anotomy of sg and sf.

kenzo400
04-29-2009, 01:05 PM
Ben Gordon can slash! He gets to the line 4-5 times a game and that would be second to Bosh on the Raps who gets 8-9 a game.Not bad if you ask me.

Gordon is not a slasher at all. I calculated the average free throws he tries a game, it is 4.5. So he gets to the line 2 and a half times a night. Now for someone who plays close to 40 minutes, it would be weird if they didn't get this many free throws at least.

LD V2.0
04-29-2009, 02:17 PM
Gordon is not a slasher at all. I calculated the average free throws he tries a game, it is 4.5. So he gets to the line 2 and a half times a night. Now for someone who plays close to 40 minutes, it would be weird if they didn't get this many free throws at least.

Actually its 4.7, the best on his team, and that's better than anyone else on the Raptors team not named Chris Bosh. If he were 0.1% better he would be in the top 40 of the league. In the playoffs, the games that matter, this year he's averaging 7.4 attempts and that places him 8th in the league.

He plays 36min/game.

ESPN.com Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaftpct&qual=true&sort=fta&league=nba&split=0&season=2009&seasontype=3&avg=pg&pos=all)

1-800-STFU
04-29-2009, 05:25 PM
I don't know if the offense complete stops 100% of the time cuz he does pass but he also sometimes forgets about his team mates. Atm I'm not confident with Bosh having the final shot in a close game, Gordon could be great but from what I've seen of him he gets tunnel vision sometimes and completely has his mindset on throwing up a shot not even considering passing the ball. If he were to come to the Raps, I'm sure many of us watching the games would be jumping off of the couch cheering for him sometimes and other times cursing him. MLE or possibly slightly more then I think he'd be worth signing.

Yep, all completely true.

When he gets the ball in the last 2 mins, he is taking the shot. There is nothing you can do about that.

You may not want him to, there might be 3 guys on him, there might be someone under the basket wide open but damnit, he's taking the shot.

LD V2.0
04-29-2009, 05:32 PM
This team has shown they need that. They have few, if any, who can take over a game in the crunch. Guys who you can count on. I mean seriously, you say the team needs a guy who can break down defenses but then you say you don't want to see him shoot the ball. Last time I checked they league only had one Tony Parker.

kenzo400
04-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Actually its 4.7, the best on his team, and that's better than anyone else on the Raptors team not named Chris Bosh. If he were 0.1% better he would be in the top 40 of the league. In the playoffs, the games that matter, this year he's averaging 7.4 attempts and that places him 8th in the league.

He plays 36min/game.

ESPN.com Stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaftpct&qual=true&sort=fta&league=nba&split=0&season=2009&seasontype=3&avg=pg&pos=all)

Oh, 4.7 huge difference there. Plus he has the ball more than anybody else on that team. I think Derrick Rose is more of a slasher than him, but he is a rookie and doesn't take as many shots.

carruthers32
04-30-2009, 11:33 PM
i say resign Marion and get our SG in the draft (Henderson, Derozan?).

LD V2.0
05-01-2009, 12:13 AM
Oh, 4.7 huge difference there. Plus he has the ball more than anybody else on that team. I think Derrick Rose is more of a slasher than him, but he is a rookie and doesn't take as many shots.

Actually its a huge difference when comparing him to other guys around the league. At 4.7 he's barely hovering outside the top 40. That's big. If you're going to get into the details you should get them right, I mean I'm sure you didn't pick 4.5 from your brain...I know I have a hard time spitting out FT stats from opposing teams anyway. If you did then I tip my hat to you, very close but wrong.

kenzo400
05-03-2009, 02:39 AM
Actually its a huge difference when comparing him to other guys around the league. At 4.7 he's barely hovering outside the top 40. That's big. If you're going to get into the details you should get them right, I mean I'm sure you didn't pick 4.5 from your brain...I know I have a hard time spitting out FT stats from opposing teams anyway. If you did then I tip my hat to you, very close but wrong.

Yeah but just because he averages 4.7 free throws a game, it doesn't mean he is a slasher. Although i do think we should try and sign him. I mean lets be realistic, how many other 20 point scorers can we hope to sign this offseason?

More shats!
05-03-2009, 08:57 AM
15 free throw attempts last night by Ben Gordon and in 7 games he made 49 of his 56 free throws.


Top 6 in Raptors Playoff History:


1. Vince Carter - 16 (Gm 2 vs. New York 2000)

2. Vince Carter - 14 (Gm 4 vs. New York 2001)

3. Chris Bosh - 13 (Gm 1 vs. Orlando 2008)

4. Vince Carter - 11 (Gm 3 vs. New York 2001)

5. Antonio Davis - 11 (Gm 5 vs. Detroit 2002)

6. Chris Bosh - 11 (Gm 2 vs. Orlando 2008)


Those 15 free throws last night by Ben Gordon would rank second in Raptors playoff History and the dude did it on an injured hamstring.

SpeedyRecovery
05-03-2009, 09:18 AM
i say resign Marion and get our SG in the draft (Henderson, Derozan?).

agreed

GodsSon
05-03-2009, 11:36 AM
Now that the Bulls-Celtics series is over and seeing how BG had a very good string of games, how much do you think he'll want this offseason? how much do you think he's worth? and finally, how much do you think he'll get?

aman_13
05-03-2009, 12:30 PM
- He would probably want 10 million
- I think he is worth 8 million
- I think he is going to get 8 million
I like him, and i know there are some Bulls fans that like and some that hate him, but he is one of the best scorers in the league and most people will agree with that.

Chicagofaithful
05-03-2009, 05:24 PM
Chicago offered him 10 million a year and he turned it down... so to leave the city i think it would have to be at least 12 million. And i think he originally asked for 13 million a year. He can score at will, but he doesnt realize he needs to catch and shoot and let the offense come to him and not try and create himself. against the celtics when we won he averaged 18 pts, when we lost he averaged 25 pts... thats my point he tries to do too much himself and he's too short and not a good enough dribbler to do so...

kanersen
05-04-2009, 12:13 AM
^^didn't gordon say he regretted not taking the 10 mill a year contract after the bulls pulled the offer from the table?

no way would i want to spend 12 mill a year on gordon, i wouldn't even want to spend 10 million a year on him

not giving into gordon's demands was probably the wisest contractual move paxson has ever made, after paying above market value to retain hinrich and deng

Glenfidish
05-07-2009, 10:38 AM
Now that the Bulls-Celtics series is over and seeing how BG had a very good string of games, how much do you think he'll want this offseason? how much do you think he's worth? and finally, how much do you think he'll get?

Considering his decision making process with 2 minutes in a game and shooting from within the stands id say about 0!

Careless and selfish individual! Took shots that only miracles could bail him out. Instead of going with the easier option in a future hall of famer when his career is done Rose.

Poseysucks
05-09-2009, 10:36 PM
"Gordon is a good defender..hes just undersized."

HAHAHAHAHA! As a Bulls fan I found this hilarious!

If you're going to pay BG big bucks believe me it's not for his defense!

IversonIsKrazy
05-09-2009, 11:25 PM
no way! BG7 is a SUPER SELFISH PLAYER! if we were to send an offer to a player who we'll probally not get, i hope thats Ron Artest.

Draco
05-09-2009, 11:34 PM
no way! BG7 is a SUPER SELFISH PLAYER! if we were to send an offer to a player who we'll probally not get, i hope thats Ron Artest.

Based on what? :rolleyes:

Bluerapoileagle
05-10-2009, 10:25 AM
I think it would be great if they got Gordan. I was watching him in the playofffs and he's a great young player, he's gonna be a star one day. Of course, you could also get one in the draft (I hoping for Curry) but I think Gordon should be at the top of BC's list of free agents.

Ovratd1up
05-10-2009, 08:04 PM
no way! BG7 is a SUPER SELFISH PLAYER! if we were to send an offer to a player who we'll probally not get, i hope thats Ron Artest.

lol Allen Iverson. You probably think AI would be a perfect fir for Toronto though, don't you?