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View Full Version : Oneal 27MP, 6-9FG, 13P, 1RB, 1BLK in Debut Loss to Wolves



Talick
02-19-2009, 12:45 AM
He's not playing great minutes yet.
http://www.nba.com/games/20090218/MINMIA/boxscore.html
Disappointing loss to T-Wolves.

JermanJaysFan
02-19-2009, 01:00 AM
Not impressive numbers overall, besides the great shooting, but from a brief skim of the Heat's game thread, they didn't seem to depressed about it. Sounds like they got soundly beat all around, so while they could have used more boards out of him, its not like anyone else was pulling their weight in that department. They seemed to feel that he brought an interior "presence", even though he wasn't hitting the boards, which is a feeling that I think we got familiar with when JO was here.

JermanJaysFan
02-19-2009, 01:01 AM
And a Moon note: 1 solitary rebound in 5 minutes of play.

muninade
02-19-2009, 01:31 AM
i do not c marion being the Guy we needed. i know its his first game and no chris, but i expected at bit higher.

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 01:45 AM
i said it before, i'll say it again. its not marion. calderon is too concerned with not turning the ball over and the raps in general arent used to slashing and cutting to the basket, which is why they didnt find marion at all tonight. all the shots he put up ( the limited touches he got at least) were mostly created off his own dribble. not because someone found him leaking out on a break or posting up. calderon also missed at LEAST 3 easy lobs to marion. its gotta be depressing for shawn to come here fired up and see that the 'uptempo offense' isnt what he thought it was going to be. MAYBE bc shoulda kept TJ..

ChongInc.
02-19-2009, 03:27 AM
[QUOTE=jsumadchat;8427776]i said it before, i'll say it again. its not marion. calderon is too concerned with not turning the ball over and the raps in general arent used to slashing and cutting to the basket, which is why they didnt find marion at all tonight. all the shots he put up ( the limited touches he got at least) were mostly created off his own dribble. not because someone found him leaking out on a break or posting up. calderon also missed at LEAST 3 easy lobs to marion. its gotta be depressing for shawn to come here fired up and see that the 'uptempo offense' isnt what he thought it was going to be. MAYBE bc shoulda kept TJ..[/QUOTE

With calderon there is no question that he will become a star in the next few years... you can not say the same about ford.

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 03:36 AM
im sorry.... i forgot to add that i would take calderon over TJ anyday... i think jose is a much better all around PG than TJ. but in this type of system TJ is a much better fit, that is a FACT. thats all im saying. so dont get me wrong, i would rather have jose.... but thats with any other team, running a half-court set, not the crappy run-and-gun play we try to reinforce here.

ChongInc.
02-19-2009, 03:39 AM
[QUOTE=jsumadchat;8427776]i said it before, i'll say it again. its not marion. calderon is too concerned with not turning the ball over and the raps in general arent used to slashing and cutting to the basket, which is why they didnt find marion at all tonight. all the shots he put up ( the limited touches he got at least) were mostly created off his own dribble. not because someone found him leaking out on a break or posting up. calderon also missed at LEAST 3 easy lobs to marion. its gotta be depressing for shawn to come here fired up and see that the 'uptempo offense' isnt what he thought it was going to be. MAYBE bc shoulda kept TJ..[/QUOTE

With calderon there is no question that he will become a star in the next few years... you can not say the same about ford.

we are asking calderon to learn a whole new type of ball. he'll get it... trust.

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 03:44 AM
[QUOTE=ChongInc.;8428699]

we are asking calderon to learn a whole new type of ball. he'll get it... trust.

personally i dont think thats it. hes been in toronto for 3 years now. what type of new ball is he trying to learn? he's actually been here longer than BC, so why would he be struggling to integrate this into his offensive mindset? it just doesnt make sense to me.

ChongInc.
02-19-2009, 03:47 AM
im sorry.... i forgot to add that i would take calderon over TJ anyday... i think jose is a much better all around PG than TJ. but in this type of system TJ is a much better fit, that is a FACT. thats all im saying. so dont get me wrong, i would rather have jose.... but thats with any other team, running a half-court set, not the crappy run-and-gun play we try to reinforce here.

so your saying... if you were colangelo, and your making a full commitment to the run-n-gun game for the long term... you would trade jose for ford?

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 03:53 AM
no not now. i think any possible development of TJ's game has been decreased by going to indiana. i was speaking in reference to the end of last season where BC was really saddled with the option of signing calderon to a HUGE extension and trading away TJ, or keeping TJ and possibly signing jose to a much smaller deal. i doubt jose would have left the team. but even if he had, TJ would be a much better fit for the raptors. but if you're asking me development-wise for the future as an all-around PG, no, i would keep jose. but run-n-gun, TJ anyday. what about you?

ink
02-19-2009, 03:57 AM
TJ is a borderline talent who had a great college career and has flashes of brilliance in the NBA. But because of injury issues and the desire of GMs to build a solid team, he will always struggle between backup and starter, or starter and backup. Take your pick. That doesn't make Jose the best PG in the world. It just makes him more reliable.

In all truth, neither is the best PG for the Raptors. The problem is that Chris Paul, DWill and Steve Nash are already signed to contracts. ;)

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 03:58 AM
TJ is a borderline talent who had a great college career and has flashes of brilliance in the NBA. But because of injury issues and the desire of GMs to build a solid team, he will always struggle between backup and starter, or starter and backup. Take your pick. That doesn't make Jose the best PG in the world. It just makes him more reliable.

In all truth, neither is the best PG for the Raptors. The problem is that Chris Paul, DWill and Steve Nash are already signed to contracts. ;)

lol in an ideal world i guess...

ChongInc.
02-19-2009, 04:06 AM
[QUOTE=ChongInc.;8428768]

personally i don't think that's it. hes been in toronto for 3 years now. what type of new ball is he trying to learn? he's actually been here longer than BC, so why would he be struggling to integrate this into his offensive mindset? it just doesn't make sense to me.

right now hes a star half court point guard. his fast break, risk taking, run-n-gun play making is below average. you can see the improvement already though. hes getting up the court at an impressing speed, and taking it to the basket. hes just too worried to turn it over that he doesn't do anything with it. he is doing everything right and he has all the skills. he just needs to push the envelope and take some risks, and he will be an All-Star.
hes sooo close, i cant wait.

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 04:12 AM
i don't want you to think im hating on him because im not. i also feel he's really close. maybe this whole risk-taking will be like his jumper. it started out TERRIBLY but now its a consistent part of his game. lol

ChongInc.
02-19-2009, 04:22 AM
no not now. i think any possible development of TJ's game has been decreased by going to indiana. i was speaking in reference to the end of last season where BC was really saddled with the option of signing calderon to a HUGE extension and trading away TJ, or keeping TJ and possibly signing jose to a much smaller deal. i doubt jose would have left the team. but even if he had, TJ would be a much better fit for the raptors. but if you're asking me development-wise for the future as an all-around PG, no, i would keep jose. but run-n-gun, TJ anyday. what about you?

so your saying you would make the trade?

i think jose is more motivated, a better leader, smarter, stronger, hits big shots, perfect from the freethrow stripe. i would never trade jose for ford ever.

ChongInc.
02-19-2009, 04:24 AM
TJ is a borderline talent who had a great college career and has flashes of brilliance in the NBA. But because of injury issues and the desire of GMs to build a solid team, he will always struggle between backup and starter, or starter and backup. Take your pick. That doesn't make Jose the best PG in the world. It just makes him more reliable.

In all truth, neither is the best PG for the Raptors. The problem is that Chris Paul, DWill and Steve Nash are already signed to contracts. ;)

very true

jsumadchat
02-19-2009, 04:37 AM
so your saying you would make the trade?

i think jose is more motivated, a better leader, smarter, stronger, hits big shots, perfect from the freethrow stripe. i would never trade jose for ford ever.

no i would not make the trade.... my point is that BC shoulda never let TJ go. im pretty sure he coulda kept both players and i think at this stage of his career, jose plays better off the bench anyway... just look at how roko schooled tony parker last week. he beat him by attacking the basket and keeping TP moving. jose doesnt do that kind of thing.

ink
02-19-2009, 04:57 AM
I'm glad the TJ-Jose controversy is over. We need to move on to bigger things. And isn't this thread about JO's debut with Miami?