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toisdabest81
02-11-2009, 08:20 PM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

sox04rR
02-11-2009, 08:23 PM
dude i agree with you how its soooooo annoying... like verrrrrryyyyyy annooying...... but you are going to get insulted so many time for this post. you need good hand eye cornadtion but it does not mean that it will go out of the ball park like all those names you mentioned. They could be lazy fly balls to the left feilder...

NYYankeesWin#27
02-11-2009, 08:28 PM
ya there is no way this era ends ever but it better 2 try 2 stop it

ruckus16969
02-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Ortiz??

CubsGirl
02-11-2009, 08:30 PM
Because then high school and college athletes will start using steroids in order to try and gain the upper hand or keep up with their competition, and it will **** up their physical development for the rest of their lives.

philab
02-11-2009, 08:34 PM
^^^ Exactly.

Plus, allowing steroids would be eliminating players' choice to use or not. To compete, even those that are against steroids would be forced to use just to stay employed. What a horrible situation to put good, law-abiding people into.

Finally, steroids are illegal. The law of MLB is not above the law of the US. It's a horrible idea.

07MVPPatBurrell
02-11-2009, 08:35 PM
no way they just allow it. seriously ??

Drawantz
02-11-2009, 08:37 PM
The entire allure of professional sports is supposed to be that any kid can dream of being one. It isn't fair to them to believe that they have to use potentially harmful chemicals in order to achieve that dream.

MooseWithFleas
02-11-2009, 09:09 PM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

+1000000

Post of the year candidate.

toisdabest81
02-11-2009, 09:10 PM
^^^ Exactly.

Plus, allowing steroids would be eliminating players' choice to use or not. To compete, even those that are against steroids would be forced to use just to stay employed. What a horrible situation to put good, law-abiding people into.

Finally, steroids are illegal. The law of MLB is not above the law of the US. It's a horrible idea.

I do kind of agree but look at players like Howard, Manny, Pujols. No steroid talks and they are 3 of the best hitters in all of baseball. And pitchers, look at Hamels, Santana, Hoffman, Rivera. Four of the best two now, and two ever, never once been mentioned with steroids. As far as I know.

toisdabest81
02-11-2009, 09:11 PM
Because then high school and college athletes will start using steroids in order to try and gain the upper hand or keep up with their competition, and it will **** up their physical development for the rest of their lives.

They already do.

tsb77
02-11-2009, 09:20 PM
^^^ Exactly.

Plus, allowing steroids would be eliminating players' choice to use or not. To compete, even those that are against steroids would be forced to use just to stay employed. What a horrible situation to put good, law-abiding people into.

Finally, steroids are illegal. The law of MLB is not above the law of the US. It's a horrible idea.

Exactly

theuuord
02-11-2009, 09:21 PM
they already do.

got it!

theuuord
02-11-2009, 09:23 PM
Finally, steroids are illegal. The law of MLB is not above the law of the US. It's a horrible idea.

Hitting someone with a thrown baseball at 90 miles per hour on the street is illegal, too.

MooseWithFleas
02-11-2009, 09:29 PM
^^^ :laugh2:

McPeak92
02-11-2009, 10:10 PM
so then players that did it the right way like Cole Hamels get ****ed and people who juiced get rewarded?

NYMetros
02-11-2009, 10:13 PM
Anybody see what Roy Oswalt said about this?


A-Rod's numbers shouldn't count for anything," Oswalt said in a phone interview with MLB.com. "I feel like he cheated me out of the game."

"It does bother me," Oswalt said. "Especially for the guys that went out there and did it on talent. We're always going to have a cloud on us, and that's not fair at all.

"The ones that have come out and admitted it, and are proven guilty, [their numbers] should not count. I've been cheated out of the game," Oswalt continued. "This is my ninth year, and I've done nothing to enhance my performance, other than work my butt off to get guys out. These guys [who took PEDs] have all the talent in the world. All-Star talent. And they put times two on it. (...)

"The few times we played them, when he got hits, it could have cost me a game," Oswalt said. "It could have cost me money in my contract. He cheated me out of the game and I take it personally, because I've never done [PEDs], haven't done it, and they're cheating me out of the game."

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/02/11/roy-oswalt-wants-a-rods-stats-gone/

McPeak92
02-11-2009, 10:18 PM
^^ its a true statement, people dont look at the business side of things everyone just cares about the records. when incentives dont get reached because there going against players that roided up thats not right. and when players reach certain incentives because they juiced up. its stealing from the owners.

theuuord
02-11-2009, 10:22 PM
^^ its a true statement, people dont look at the business side of things everyone just cares about the records. when incentives dont get reached because there going against players that roided up thats not right. and when players reach certain incentives because they juiced up. its stealing from the owners.

oh no, those poor multibillionaire owners.
when those players who reach those incentives bring in massive fan revenue to increase profit, is that stealing from the owners?

please.

performance-enhancing drugs brought the sport back after the strike in 1994. Whether or not you want to believe it.

mnrlgry
02-11-2009, 10:34 PM
Allow it? They should release those 104 names, the system they have in place is good right now but those stupid reporters and MLB people trying to cover up the era just need to get over it and out everyone.

N.Z's #1 Dodger
02-11-2009, 10:35 PM
Anybody see what Roy Oswalt said about this?



http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/02/11/roy-oswalt-wants-a-rods-stats-gone/

Awesome. Seems PSD is full of people who like to cast this as the "steriod era" and forgive and move on, with the words "everyone was doing it".

Not everyone was doing it, and if I wasn't, and excelled like a Jeff Kent, or Roy Oswalt, I'd be pissed off having to compare my stats against tainted athletes. It's not fair.

theuuord
02-11-2009, 10:40 PM
Awesome. Seems PSD is full of people who like to cast this as the "steriod era" and forgive and move on, with the words "everyone was doing it".

Not everyone was doing it, and if I wasn't, and excelled like a Jeff Kent, or Roy Oswalt, I'd be pissed off having to compare my stats against tainted athletes. It's not fair.

ooh, how about this.

Instead of calling... say, 1991-2003 the "steroid era"

can we call

1846-2009 (and beyond) "the cheating era"?

mdlr52192
02-11-2009, 10:44 PM
Look, allowing steroids in the mlb makes it seem like no one can cheat now because its leagal, but then you are encouraging players to ****** up their bodies, and thats not a good message to send through the college players, high school players, and even little league players.

theuuord
02-11-2009, 10:47 PM
Look, allowing steroids in the mlb makes it seem like no one can cheat now because its leagal, but then you are encouraging players to ****** up their bodies, and thats not a good message to send through the college players, high school players, and even little league players.

Would you say that drinking alcohol is a good message to send to high school kids?
What about smoking cigarettes?
Because Budweiser and Marlboro both have massive ad revenue in MLB. Yet no one seems to care that Budweiser ads are placed EVERYWHERE in MLB....

Could we stop pretending that steroids are some miracle drug that simultaneously a) make you an amazing baseball player overnight and b) kill you?
Because neither is true.

mnrlgry
02-11-2009, 10:50 PM
Would you say that drinking alcohol is a good message to send to high school kids?
What about smoking cigarettes?
Because Budweiser and Marlboro both have massive ad revenue in MLB. Yet no one seems to care that Budweiser ads are placed EVERYWHERE in MLB....

Could we stop pretending that steroids are some miracle drug that simultaneously a) make you an amazing baseball player overnight and b) kill you?
Because neither is true.

I'll give you Budweiser, but I don't think I've ever seen a Marlboro ad anywhere on a ballpark and as you know it's illegal to have TV or radio ads for cigarettes now.

And no, drinking in moderation is not bad.

Steroids can kill you as well. Cancer and heart disease are just some of the side effects.

philab
02-11-2009, 10:52 PM
Hitting someone with a thrown baseball at 90 miles per hour on the street is illegal, too.

Not necessarily -- but nice try.

Hitting someone intentionally is generally illegal on the street. And there are a few other circumstances in which it could be unintentional but still illegal. But what's NOT true is the following statement: every instance in which a person gets hit by a baseball thrown by another is a result of someone acting illegally.

And, in baseball, hitting someone intentionally with a 90 MPH baseball is illegal given that it's outside the scope of the game. A "plunk" is within the scope of the game, however, so it is legal. It's a question of consent . . . When players voluntarily partake in the game, they consent to those things within the scope of the game (which may or may not be illegal given other circumstances). Consent is a legal doctrine, so baseball's rules are not taking precedence over the government's.


With steroids, this argument cannot be made. Steroids are illegal, whether you're a baseball player or not. MLB's rules are not supreme to those of the government.

EDIT: not an IBB, but a plunk

philab
02-11-2009, 10:57 PM
I do kind of agree but look at players like Howard, Manny, Pujols. No steroid talks and they are 3 of the best hitters in all of baseball. And pitchers, look at Hamels, Santana, Hoffman, Rivera. Four of the best two now, and two ever, never once been mentioned with steroids. As far as I know.

First, we have no way of knowing for sure that any of those guys aren't/weren't on steroids. I'd like to believe they aren't, but who knows.

Second, there's always going to be exceptions -- players that are good without using.

Third, it's less a question of results and more one of perception. The perception is that steroids enhance your performance. Thus, it is reasonable to say that players will feel compelled to use steroids because they feel the users have a competitive advantage.

Finally, if all those players are clean, that goes a long way to affirming our collective hope that baseball is more or less clean these days. If that's true, clean players are playing against clean players and the best are rightfully deemed so (and not competing against users).

CubsGirl
02-11-2009, 10:59 PM
They already do.
Good to see you comprehend my point :rolleyes:

cambovenzi
02-11-2009, 10:59 PM
allow it? is that a bad a joke or something?
its illegal and gives an unfair edge to users.

R. Johnson#3
02-11-2009, 11:07 PM
It's just not natural. I mean I'd still watch baseball if steroids were allowed but it would just be weird knowing 95% of players would be on them.

theuuord
02-11-2009, 11:11 PM
I'll give you Budweiser, but I don't think I've ever seen a Marlboro ad anywhere on a ballpark and as you know it's illegal to have TV or radio ads for cigarettes now.

And no, drinking in moderation is not bad.

Steroids can kill you as well. Cancer and heart disease are just some of the side effects.


Are you really going to say "drinking in moderation is not bad" and then follow up with "steroids can kill you"?

Ever think that maybe - just maybe - steroids in moderation is not bad, either?

Not to mention all the players who chew tobacco, which is infinitely more dangerous for you than steroids...



By the way, pretty much every case of death occurring within the scope of steroids was when someone abused steroids in conjunction with multiple drugs.

theuuord
02-11-2009, 11:13 PM
It's just not natural. I mean I'd still watch baseball if steroids were allowed but it would just be weird knowing 95% of players would be on them.

What is "natural"?

Is a cup of coffee "natural"? It's intended to cause a chemical imbalance.
Is a cortisone shot "natural"? Because players get them all the time.

Is taking ritalin for ADD "natural"? because that's what a lot of players allege they were caught for.

torrance
02-11-2009, 11:36 PM
I've gone back and forth on this argument for years. My general thinking was if it was safe, I'd have no problem with it.

For those that are serious about this argument, take the time to read this link. At the very least, it may open you up to the possibility that the lines we draw with our arguments are not always so clear.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=4116522&page=1

toisdabest81
02-11-2009, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=theuuord;8341688]Would you say that drinking alcohol is a good message to send to high school kids?
What about smoking cigarettes?
Because Budweiser and Marlboro both have massive ad revenue in MLB. Yet no one seems to care that Budweiser ads are placed EVERYWHERE in MLB....

[B]Could we stop pretending that steroids are some miracle drug that simultaneously a) make you an amazing baseball player overnight and b) kill you?
Because neither is true.[B][QUOTE]

Thank you...I hate to break it to Oswalt, but Arod would take him yard on or off roids. And if cycled correctly and not overused, steroids will not harm you.

mnrlgry
02-12-2009, 12:35 AM
Are you really going to say "drinking in moderation is not bad" and then follow up with "steroids can kill you"?

Ever think that maybe - just maybe - steroids in moderation is not bad, either?

Not to mention all the players who chew tobacco, which is infinitely more dangerous for you than steroids...



By the way, pretty much every case of death occurring within the scope of steroids was when someone abused steroids in conjunction with multiple drugs.

Anabolic steroids have been proven to cause cancer even in small doses, the risk just increases exponentially with higher doses. Having a beer or glass of wine with dinner won't give you liver disease or qualify you as an alocholic.

I didn't say chewing tobacco was smart, why do you bring it up even? The difference between chewing tobacco and steroids is that steroids are illegal and performance enhancing.

Long term steroid abuse death statistics are not available largely because the abuse phenomenon has not been around long enough for any long term studies to have been conducted.

Steroids have been *PROVEN* to cause the heart to enlarge, HDL (good) cholestoral is lowered and LDL (bad) is raised leading to high blood pressure, it has been proven that hormone glands are sometimes permemantly shut down even after steroid use, they cause liver and bone cancers, they can inhibit skeletal growth in some children, they can cause permenant impotency, they block the body from absorbing calcium and can lead to osteoporosis and they've been shwon to have adverse psychological effects.

If you're trying to say that steroids aren't that bad when abused for muscle growth, then you're kidding yourself.

wtfhendry
02-12-2009, 12:51 AM
so this guy above me says pujols has cancer and a enlarged heart i was feeling the same way thanks for clearing that up

Matt-the-great
02-12-2009, 12:52 AM
ortiz?

Mrphilly
02-12-2009, 01:07 AM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

So...because you are too lazy to change the channel when something that annoys you shows up on the screen, you think the solution is to allow steroids. You think steroids is illegal because they make you stronger. steroids will kill you in the long run. Steroids is an unfair advantage and if you legalize it, you are putting the clean players at a disadvantage. Now they may feel real "pressure" to use them to keep up with their peers.

What about the kids, not that its legal u will have HS kids on roids and dying before they are 40.

I think u should just change the channel when the steroids coverage comes on. Also, remind me never to play cards or monopoly with you since you are a great supporter of cheating!!!!


Legalize Crack, weed and murder!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:

sguglie2
02-12-2009, 01:08 AM
where did Ortiz's name come from? Just because a bunch of loud mouth Yankee fans are embarassed that another one of their own tested positive and try to throw Ortiz under the bus too doesn't mean he tested positive for steroids

torrance
02-12-2009, 01:09 AM
Anabolic steroids have been proven to cause cancer even in small doses, the risk just increases exponentially with higher doses. Having a beer or glass of wine with dinner won't give you liver disease or qualify you as an alocholic.

I didn't say chewing tobacco was smart, why do you bring it up even? The difference between chewing tobacco and steroids is that steroids are illegal and performance enhancing.

Long term steroid abuse death statistics are not available largely because the abuse phenomenon has not been around long enough for any long term studies to have been conducted.

Steroids have been *PROVEN* to cause the heart to enlarge, HDL (good) cholestoral is lowered and LDL (bad) is raised leading to high blood pressure, it has been proven that hormone glands are sometimes permemantly shut down even after steroid use, they cause liver and bone cancers, they can inhibit skeletal growth in some children, they can cause permenant impotency, they block the body from absorbing calcium and can lead to osteoporosis and they've been shwon to have adverse psychological effects.

If you're trying to say that steroids aren't that bad when abused for muscle growth, then you're kidding yourself.

Look, I can CAPITALIZE the word PROOF too, but you're not supplying anything substantial.

Why not do a little research and read different viewpoints on the matter. Look, I have no use for steroids in my life, but it doesn't mean I willing to listen blindly to superficial reporters that don't do their homework.

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

Red_Sox_89
02-12-2009, 01:27 AM
That has to be the stupidest solution I've ever heard in my life ever... in my life. Ever

theuuord
02-12-2009, 01:39 AM
So...because you are too lazy to change the channel when something that annoys you shows up on the screen, you think the solution is to allow steroids. You think steroids is illegal because they make you stronger. steroids will kill you in the long run. Steroids is an unfair advantage and if you legalize it, you are putting the clean players at a disadvantage. Now they may feel real "pressure" to use them to keep up with their peers.

What about the kids, not that its legal u will have HS kids on roids and dying before they are 40.

I think u should just change the channel when the steroids coverage comes on. Also, remind me never to play cards or monopoly with you since you are a great supporter of cheating!!!!


Legalize Crack, weed and murder!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:

How about you substitute crack, weed and murder with cigarettes, alcohol, and ritalin?

Not so crazy now, huh?

By the way, pretty much everything you said in your first paragraph isn't true. But keep eating up the lies the media-driven frenzy feeds you.

rotanixot
02-12-2009, 01:40 AM
implement blood testing.

theuuord
02-12-2009, 01:43 AM
implement blood testing.

Union would NEVER allow it.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 01:49 AM
While I agree in priciple to ur argument, especially with using juice properly and intelligently, u just cant do that. U cant allow something that is illegal in law, and trust me i think its stupid and if people knew how similar suff from fitness stores were and didnt haVE an unmovable stance on this argument because they dislikethe players, they would have a diff outlook. and it was not against the rules when most of these guys took them. That random testing was to see if they should draw a line in the sand, and that was 5 years ago? Now if its prescribed by doctors for health reasons, that should be a diff story...:D

theuuord
02-12-2009, 01:54 AM
While I agree in priciple to ur argument, especially with using juice properly and intelligently, u just cant do that. U cant allow something that is illegal in law, and trust me i think its stupid and if people knew how similar suff from fitness stores were and didnt haVE an unmovable stance on this argument because they dislikethe players, they would have a diff outlook. and it was not against the rules when most of these guys took them. That random testing was to see if they should draw a line in the sand, and that was 5 years ago? Now if its prescribed by doctors for health reasons, that should be a diff story...:D

this is the thing that i think is so crazy. That people allow the law to dictate their opinions, rather than questioning the principles of the law itself.
For instance, anyone who has researched marijuana knows that it's a million times less harmful than cigarettes. (I'm being hyperbolic. deal with it.) But, whenever we talk about decriminalization, the health risks are always brought up. It's not because it's actually risky, it's because the law has subconsciously put different drugs into categories of "good" and "bad" when it is far from that cut and dry.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 01:57 AM
Look, I can CAPITALIZE the word PROOF too, but you're not supplying anything substantial.

Why not do a little research and read different viewpoints on the matter. Look, I have no use for steroids in my life, but it doesn't mean I willing to listen blindly to superficial reporters that don't do their homework.

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/
And there are no difinitive proven facts on steroids and long term health issues in a technical sense, just like any supplement including juice has no PROVEN physical affects on the human body. It has to do with supps not being regulated by the fda, and there are no case studies of anyone in an advanced age that has prolonged use of steroids. (and dont mentio arnold, because he has never released his body to be tested for this reason, and u r all assuming ) All the 60 yr olds today didnt use juice. JUst thought I would give You some facts about something I actually have working, and everyday knwledge of. Not that I completely disagree with u, just the facts. And anything, any medicine is going to have adverse affects on the body with prolonged use. Thats why with every medicine with realistic possibilities, ie not terminal people, there is a recommended dosage and period to stop taking it. Doctors prescribe juice, so it is not a death dealer. But like I stated below, most people already have their minds made up without a lot of hard facts, and they already have biase and mallase behind them so they wont listen.

BeantownBill
02-12-2009, 01:59 AM
Sure, let them use, who the **** cares, right? Don't tell me that players using in this so-called 'era' have a right to hold any of these records they're breaking, though. You honestly think it's fair, when in a day and age where players already have shorter fences, a huge advantage in technology in terms of both training and gear used, and the advances we've made in building a stronger, healthier body WITHOUT performance enhancing drugs that these spoiled, pampered babies should be allowed to break and hold the records that real men set, without the benefits today's players enjoy? If you think that no amount of logic or knowledge can help you realize what's right and what's wrong in sports today.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 02:01 AM
this is the thing that i think is so crazy. That people allow the law to dictate their opinions, rather than questioning the principles of the law itself.
For instance, anyone who has researched marijuana knows that it's a million times less harmful than cigarettes. (I'm being hyperbolic. deal with it.) But, whenever we talk about decriminalization, the health risks are always brought up. It's not because it's actually risky, it's because the law has subconsciously put different drugs into categories of "good" and "bad" when it is far from that cut and dry.
nah u dont get it partner, I agree. But I cant allow my employees to use crack because I dont care, because its illegal. Its just that simple. Plus MLB would lose a ton of money to uptight parents being mad that they actually have to instill right and wrong in their kids, and a proffessional althlete wont do that for them.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 02:04 AM
Sure, let them use, who the **** cares, right? Don't tell me that players using in this so-called 'era' have a right to hold any of these records they're breaking, though. You honestly think it's fair, when in a day and age where players already have shorter fences, a huge advantage in technology in terms of both training and gear used, and the advances we've made in building a stronger, healthier body WITHOUT performance enhancing drugs that these spoiled, pampered babies should be allowed to break and hold the records that real men set, without the benefits today's players enjoy? If you think that no amount of logic or knowledge can help you realize what's right and what's wrong in sports today.

I bet if it was someone in boston that u liked, u would have a diff outlook, and keep in mind this was not banned in baseball TILL A COUPLE YEARS AGO. name one of the names on the list that has a proof positive test from 2004-2009?

BeantownBill
02-12-2009, 02:10 AM
I bet if it was someone in boston that u liked, u would have a diff outlook, and keep in mind this was not banned in baseball TILL A COUPLE YEARS AGO. name one of the names on the list that has a proof positive test from 2004-2009?


You'd lose that bet. Try to follow along, won't you? This point of view has nothing to do with what team I follow. This is about showing respect to the men who played the game when it was still a game, not the business it is today. Back when the players held jobs during the offseason to make ends meet. When center field fences were 500+ feet from home plate. Don't be a moron and read my screen name, then assume this is a Boston-New York thing. It isn't. The players hitting all these home runs don't deserve to hold HR records, they don't deserve to go into the hall based on the fact that they hit a pantload of HRs, they deserve to play, be judged on what they did and HOW they went about doing it, and then go quietly into history. Instead, they choose to whine, pule, and cry about how 'everyone else did it, so it's okay for me too' Well, that may be true if you're talking about playing and earning your fat new contract. But if you want to go into the record books as the new Home Run king, then do it honestly the way the men who came before you did, or shut the hell up. Problem solved.

tymonic1
02-12-2009, 02:12 AM
steroids suck

BeantownBill
02-12-2009, 02:18 AM
I bet if it was someone in boston that u liked, u would have a diff outlook, and keep in mind this was not banned in baseball TILL A COUPLE YEARS AGO. name one of the names on the list that has a proof positive test from 2004-2009?

How old are you, anyway? You do realize baseball was being played before, say .. 1980, right? I don't give a **** who was on what list at what time. I honestly do not. I don't care if they played for the Yankees, or the Red Sox, or the ****ing St. Paul Pioneers. If they used anabolic steroids to give them an edge and boost their power numbers, they should be recognized as such (however you choose, an asterisk or a footnote in the books denoting the 'steroid era') and call it what it is. I also do not care if it was banned or not banned, legal or not legal, the fact is they provided the players who chose to use it with added power, and that is wrong. The Babe didn't use steroids. He hit the ball a lot farther and set records without these enhancements. How is it right to measure what he did compared to today's spoiled athlete? Do they not have enough of an advantage that they need this too? Give me a ****ing break.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 02:24 AM
You'd lose that bet. Try to follow along, won't you? This point of view has nothing to do with what team I follow. This is about showing respect to the men who played the game when it was still a game, not the business it is today. Back when the players held jobs during the offseason to make ends meet. When center field fences were 500+ feet from home plate. Don't be a moron and read my screen name, then assume this is a Boston-New York thing. It isn't. The players hitting all these home runs don't deserve to hold HR records, they don't deserve to go into the hall based on the fact that they hit a pantload of HRs, they deserve to play, be judged on what they did and HOW they went about doing it, and then go quietly into history. Instead, they choose to whine, pule, and cry about how 'everyone else did it, so it's okay for me too' Well, that may be true if you're talking about playing and earning your fat new contract. But if you want to go into the record books as the new Home Run king, then do it honestly the way the men who came before you did, or shut the hell up. Problem solved.
Hey, no need to be rude and childish man, I was bringin the other side of the argument. Like i said, people have already invested personal angry feelings behind their stance, and are impossible to talk to, so they act really rude to other people. Nice arggument dude. I guess u win by getting angry. whatever, no point in talkin sports to someone thats rude and gets mad if u disagree.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 02:26 AM
and u still ignore the FACT, that it was not banned when all these guys were really using.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 02:29 AM
How old are you, anyway? You do realize baseball was being played before, say .. 1980, right? I don't give a **** who was on what list at what time. I honestly do not. I don't care if they played for the Yankees, or the Red Sox, or the ****ing St. Paul Pioneers. If they used anabolic steroids to give them an edge and boost their power numbers, they should be recognized as such (however you choose, an asterisk or a footnote in the books denoting the 'steroid era') and call it what it is. I also do not care if it was banned or not banned, legal or not legal, the fact is they provided the players who chose to use it with added power, and that is wrong. The Babe didn't use steroids. He hit the ball a lot farther and set records without these enhancements. How is it right to measure what he did compared to today's spoiled athlete? Do they not have enough of an advantage that they need this too? Give me a ****ing break.
and I hope u know, players have been using amphetamines in the games as early as the '40s right?
BUt all those guys were true gamers, man's men right? They played the game hard nosed, and there was no drug testing so who knows who used it so history will just ignore the subject and people like u can think ur argument has no holes. And they didnt juice then because there was no juice, not because their men of the highest calibur. Ruth wAS A CHAIN SMOKING alcoholic. Mantle was not any better, just to name two. Guys like this you really think would not juice if it were there to heal them(especiazlly ruth), because they were men of high moral fiber? Right. NOw i cant wait for ur rebuttle, which will be insult laced, have refusale to listen to the other sides argument, and a bunch of pent up anger.

gcoll
02-12-2009, 02:58 AM
Ortiz??

He's good friends with Tejada.....he's got a big head....hits lots of home runs.

Let's put it this way. If it came out tomorrow that Ortiz was on roids, would you be surprised? I wouldn't be.


Because then high school and college athletes will start using steroids in order to try and gain the upper hand or keep up with their competition
High school athletes already roid up.

About the point of the thread. No. It gives an upper hand to those who are more willing to do drugs. That's not a good policy.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 03:04 AM
He's good friends with Tejada.....he's got a big head....hits lots of home runs.

Let's put it this way. If it came out tomorrow that Ortiz was on roids, would you be surprised? I wouldn't be.


High school athletes already roid up.

About the point of the thread. No. It gives an upper hand to those who are more willing to do drugs. That's not a good policy.

[I] see ur point, but its all relative. working out gives an edge over those that dont want to sepnd an extra 3 hours in the room a day, and eating a perfectly balance macronutrient rich diet gives a disadvantage to guys that take their kids to Mc donalds. IF its legal, then its a matter of simantics. They have the choice to keep up. I am not about to get in a pissing contestwith u so dont get all reved up, im just playing devils advocate. Anything thats legal can be an advantage over someone that does not want to take advantage of it.
ps, did Ortiz really test pos, or was someone being really irresonsible and assuming? Yeah he has a big head, but he is also tall and fat.

coltsncardsfan
02-12-2009, 03:51 AM
How old are you, anyway? You do realize baseball was being played before, say .. 1980, right? I don't give a **** who was on what list at what time. I honestly do not. I don't care if they played for the Yankees, or the Red Sox, or the ****ing St. Paul Pioneers. If they used anabolic steroids to give them an edge and boost their power numbers, they should be recognized as such (however you choose, an asterisk or a footnote in the books denoting the 'steroid era') and call it what it is. I also do not care if it was banned or not banned, legal or not legal, the fact is they provided the players who chose to use it with added power, and that is wrong. The Babe didn't use steroids. He hit the ball a lot farther and set records without these enhancements. How is it right to measure what he did compared to today's spoiled athlete? Do they not have enough of an advantage that they need this too? Give me a ****ing break.

The Babe wasn't on the juice, so he didn't have an advantage? When Ruth played there was like 8 teams. Outside of getting injured during the game, pitchers almost always threw complete games racking up like 400+ innings per season. Many different pitches have been invented (or at least mastered) since he played, and he never faced a lot of the best talent simply because they were not white.

Today pitchers see one pitcher for about 2 ABs, another for his third (usually with different pitches, different delivery, or even a different side of the rubber)and again someone new in the 9th. Often seeing a certain pitcher only a few times during the season, while attempting to find a way to adjust to someone new every game, and sometimes every at bat.

So let's recap, just so I understand correctly. Ruth, while facing limited competion and seeing the same tired, rag-arm, two-pitch pitchers day in, and day out, never had any advantages?

bigmac8675
02-12-2009, 05:20 AM
Seriously MLB and these jury's should just let it be.... all this steroid scandalous nonsense is really turning me off of baseball. Plus isn't this steroid era what brought baseball back into the spotlight from a dark time post strike?

toisdabest81
02-12-2009, 08:08 AM
So...because you are too lazy to change the channel when something that annoys you shows up on the screen, you think the solution is to allow steroids. You think steroids is illegal because they make you stronger. steroids will kill you in the long run. Steroids is an unfair advantage and if you legalize it, you are putting the clean players at a disadvantage. Now they may feel real "pressure" to use them to keep up with their peers.

What about the kids, not that its legal u will have HS kids on roids and dying before they are 40.

I think u should just change the channel when the steroids coverage comes on. Also, remind me never to play cards or monopoly with you since you are a great supporter of cheating!!!!


Legalize Crack, weed and murder!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:




How can you even compare? Weed and Crack make you high and not act yourself there hurting other people, and well, murder, is murder. Steroids arent even close to as bad.

toisdabest81
02-12-2009, 08:14 AM
Also for you that say about giving a bad outlook to college and high school athletes. The MLB does not have to tell anyone that it is legal. They dont have to go out on the internet or news and be like HEY!! Yall can use it now!!!

They can keep it below the radar.

And for the 1000th time. If taken in a cycle in moderation, steroids are not harmful. And weed, crack, heroin etc is 1000x different cause when your are high you actions change possibly hurting other people. Steroids does not have this affect.

PS-Roid rage happens only if greatly abused.

fishfan79
02-12-2009, 08:19 AM
illegal in the country cant be allowed in a sport

Ramlaen
02-12-2009, 09:08 AM
Exactly, you can't say allow it in a sport when the federal government has declared them illegal. If you do the government will start another investigation and cause more problems.

DJYankee
02-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

The reason I wouldn't allow it because of the records. All these players from the past did it clean. Now if you let the people who taken steroids break them then your disrespecting the game.

theuuord
02-12-2009, 10:54 AM
The reason I wouldn't allow it because of the records. All these players from the past did it clean. Now if you let the people who taken steroids break them then your disrespecting the game.

Who did it clean?
Not Ruth, he corked his bat (and was known for breaking rules whenever he wanted).
Not Aaron, he used amphetamines.
Not Mays, he used liquid meth.

We could go down this list a long time. Your so-called "pure" sport is not as clean as you like to pretend.

theuuord
02-12-2009, 10:55 AM
illegal in the country cant be allowed in a sport

Then charge them on a federal level, not on the baseball field. If Kobe Bryant would have been charged for that rape case in Colorado and went to jail, he would have been punished. But his records wouldn't be taken away.

theuuord
02-12-2009, 10:57 AM
You'd lose that bet. Try to follow along, won't you? This point of view has nothing to do with what team I follow. This is about showing respect to the men who played the game when it was still a game, not the business it is today. Back when the players held jobs during the offseason to make ends meet. When center field fences were 500+ feet from home plate. Don't be a moron and read my screen name, then assume this is a Boston-New York thing. It isn't. The players hitting all these home runs don't deserve to hold HR records, they don't deserve to go into the hall based on the fact that they hit a pantload of HRs, they deserve to play, be judged on what they did and HOW they went about doing it, and then go quietly into history. Instead, they choose to whine, pule, and cry about how 'everyone else did it, so it's okay for me too' Well, that may be true if you're talking about playing and earning your fat new contract. But if you want to go into the record books as the new Home Run king, then do it honestly the way the men who came before you did, or shut the hell up. Problem solved.

What men did it honestly?

Again, not Ruth. Not Aaron. Not Mays. Not Frank Robinson. Definitely not Mantle.

Stop acting like baseball is a sacred sport when in fact it's bred cheating since its inception.

awesomeovie8
02-12-2009, 11:01 AM
Also for you that say about giving a bad outlook to college and high school athletes. The MLB does not have to tell anyone that it is legal. They dont have to go out on the internet or news and be like HEY!! Yall can use it now!!!

They can keep it below the radar.

And for the 1000th time. If taken in a cycle in moderation, steroids are not harmful. And weed, crack, heroin etc is 1000x different cause when your are high you actions change possibly hurting other people. Steroids does not have this affect.

PS-Roid rage happens only if greatly abused.

I highly doubt your a doctor, and steroids are for *******

awesomeovie8
02-12-2009, 11:03 AM
Then charge them on a federal level, not on the baseball field. If Kobe Bryant would have been charged for that rape case in Colorado and went to jail, he would have been punished. But his records wouldn't be taken away.

worst example ever, unless rape gives you some kind of super power, if not you are a moron

toisdabest81
02-12-2009, 11:18 AM
I highly doubt your a doctor, and steroids are for *******

I'm not a doctor. But I do work at a gym where alot of steroids are taken, and with interest I did research. IF abused the body gets used to it, causing withdrawl when stopped. Causing other problems. If cycled the body never gets used to it and can still work normally with the standard amounts of testosterone, rather than increased. That is one neg affect of abusing roids.

toisdabest81
02-12-2009, 11:20 AM
worst example ever, unless rape gives you some kind of super power, if not you are a moron

Steroids doesnt give you super powers either. The only thing it does, is helps you get jacked faster than w/o them.

We are not talking about body builders. Body builders can only reach that size with steroids. It is physically impossible without them. But like ARod, Bonds, Giambi, etc. They could have reached that size and strength on their own with just MORE work. It makes their lives easier, it doesnt make them this superman that alot of people percieve it to do.

Look at people like, Pujols, Howard, and other athletes like Terrell Owens, Urlacher, Ray lewis, Dwight Freeney, LeBron James, Dwight Howard. None of them tested positive for any type of banned substance and I'd be willing to bet, Arod, Bonds, Giambi, Palmeiro, etc is NOT stronger than any of them. Football players off the practice field are obligated and ordered by their team to lift, lift, lift and get big and strong. Baseball players aren't. These steroids are NOT making them into super heroes just helping them reach their potential quicker. If these players lifted as much as the football players they would be just as big then some of the players on steroids.

My point is, the amount of steroids these players are taking and cycle they are on, and the types of steroids, is not making them gods compared to players off steroids. These players off can get just as strong with just more work.

BLooDShoT_GrK
02-12-2009, 11:37 AM
Finally, steroids are illegal. The law of MLB is not above the law of the US. It's a horrible idea.

thats the key to it all right there nothing supercedes federal law so forget that

awesomeovie8
02-12-2009, 11:45 AM
Steroids doesnt give you super powers either. The only thing it does, is helps you get jacked faster than w/o them.

We are not talking about body builders. Body builders can only reach that size with steroids. It is physically impossible without them. But like ARod, Bonds, Giambi, etc. They could have reached that size and strength on their own with just MORE work. It makes their lives easier, it doesnt make them this superman that alot of people percieve it to do.

Look at people like, Pujols, Howard, and other athletes like Terrell Owens, Urlacher, Ray lewis, Dwight Freeney, LeBron James, Dwight Howard. None of them tested positive for any type of banned substance and I'd be willing to bet, Arod, Bonds, Giambi, Palmeiro, etc is NOT stronger than any of them. Football players off the practice field are obligated and ordered by their team to lift, lift, lift and get big and strong. Baseball players aren't. These steroids are NOT making them into super heroes just helping them reach their potential quicker. If these players lifted as much as the football players they would be just as big then some of the players on steroids.

My point is, the amount of steroids these players are taking and cycle they are on, and the types of steroids, is not making them gods compared to players off steroids. These players off can get just as strong with just more work.

The clear supposedly helped more than just muscles, and these players would never be able to get that strong on their own. South Park said it best: "steroids are for big fat *******"
Also I would love to see research that steroids doesnt hurt if used only a little, and supposedly it makes your jaunt shrink. Which supports the theory the bigger the muscles the smaller the penis.
Also the fact that some of these freakish people dont need steroids proves the point that they are something special. They are the ones that should have the chance to break the records. I dont want everyone to be like them.

mattd24
02-12-2009, 12:03 PM
If you can play, you can play - steroids won't make a hobo turn into a superstar...

Continue testing, make all results public and put a star next to every player that tests positive - but i don't think they should keep fighting this steroids battle because it's impossible to control.

I've always said - the biggest problem baseball faces is not steroids - but payroll...i'd rather every player be juiced and have every team competitive than have a clean game where 10 teams (teams like pittsburgh and florida) are already out of it before the season starts because they dont have the payroll...

theuuord
02-12-2009, 01:42 PM
worst example ever, unless rape gives you some kind of super power, if not you are a moron

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. First of all, you're assuming that steroids give you some superhuman abilities. Ask Alex Sanchez about that, who was the first guy to ever get caught with steroids and had like eight career home runs. Secondly, if your beef with steroids is that they're illegal, then to strip them from their baseball records is completely unrelated. If you're mad they broke the law (which was your argument) and think that lawbreakers should be removed from baseball, you've got a long list of players - Hall of Famers and otherwise - to remove.

The myth about steroids is completely overblown in America. It's this media-driven frenzy to automatically associate steroids with Incredible Hulk-like abilities, which is the furthest thing from the truth. It's not like you just inject a syringe full of steroids and then you can hit 500 home runs (again, ask Alex Sanchez about that). All steroids do is give you the ability to work out for longer - so you still have to put the work in.
Whether or not steroids should be legal is a major debate in and of itself.

theuuord
02-12-2009, 01:44 PM
If you can play, you can play - steroids won't make a hobo turn into a superstar...

Continue testing, make all results public and put a star next to every player that tests positive - but i don't think they should keep fighting this steroids battle because it's impossible to control.

I've always said - the biggest problem baseball faces is not steroids - but payroll...i'd rather every player be juiced and have every team competitive than have a clean game where 10 teams (teams like pittsburgh and florida) are already out of it before the season starts because they dont have the payroll...

Again, if you put an asterisk next to every player's name that cheated in the history of baseball to gain an unfair advantage, you'll end up with more asterisks than vowels. (again. I'm being hyperbolic. deal.)

toisdabest81
02-12-2009, 02:38 PM
The clear supposedly helped more than just muscles, and these players would never be able to get that strong on their own. South Park said it best: "steroids are for big fat *******"
Also I would love to see research that steroids doesnt hurt if used only a little, and supposedly it makes your jaunt shrink. Which supports the theory the bigger the muscles the smaller the penis.
Also the fact that some of these freakish people dont need steroids proves the point that they are something special. They are the ones that should have the chance to break the records. I dont want everyone to be like them.

Steroids does not make your penis smallers it makes your balls smaller. Actually a big difference.

awesomeovie8
02-12-2009, 04:59 PM
you know from experience? Colbert said it best, "Ladies, you need a man with a big sack"

StryderSox
02-12-2009, 06:47 PM
All you Americans ask yourself this.......If Michael Phelps tested positive for steroids instead of for pot what would have happenned to all those gold medals??????

So what makes you believe that baseball players deserve to be treated any differently than any other athlete????

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 08:13 PM
The Babe wasn't on the juice, so he didn't have an advantage? When Ruth played there was like 8 teams. Outside of getting injured during the game, pitchers almost always threw complete games racking up like 400+ innings per season. Many different pitches have been invented (or at least mastered) since he played, and he never faced a lot of the best talent simply because they were not white.

Today pitchers see one pitcher for about 2 ABs, another for his third (usually with different pitches, different delivery, or even a different side of the rubber)and again someone new in the 9th. Often seeing a certain pitcher only a few times during the season, while attempting to find a way to adjust to someone new every game, and sometimes every at bat.

So let's recap, just so I understand correctly. Ruth, while facing limited competion and seeing the same tired, rag-arm, two-pitch pitchers day in, and day out, never had any advantages?
Good points. I never thought too much about the color barrier excluding talent and the amount of times hitters saw a pitcher compaired to now.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 08:15 PM
All you Americans ask yourself this.......If Michael Phelps tested positive for steroids instead of for pot what would have happenned to all those gold medals??????

So what makes you believe that baseball players deserve to be treated any differently than any other athlete????

The BIG difference is, that juice has been banned in the olympics for years and years. Baseball did not ban it till a couple years ago, thus it was technically NOT against the rules, it was just taboo. That is a diffinitive difference there. In one it has been illegal, in the other it was not.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 08:20 PM
You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. First of all, you're assuming that steroids give you some superhuman abilities. Ask Alex Sanchez about that, who was the first guy to ever get caught with steroids and had like eight career home runs. Secondly, if your beef with steroids is that they're illegal, then to strip them from their baseball records is completely unrelated. If you're mad they broke the law (which was your argument) and think that lawbreakers should be removed from baseball, you've got a long list of players - Hall of Famers and otherwise - to remove.

The myth about steroids is completely overblown in America. It's this media-driven frenzy to automatically associate steroids with Incredible Hulk-like abilities, which is the furthest thing from the truth. It's not like you just inject a syringe full of steroids and then you can hit 500 home runs (again, ask Alex Sanchez about that). All steroids do is give you the ability to work out for longer - so you still have to put the work in.
Whether or not steroids should be legal is a major debate in and of itself.

I agree big time. Steroids have been made by the media to be some superhuman, off the charts thing. People in sports, every sport and every era look for an edge, and to say they didnt juice so they have the true records is bull because A) juice was not banned in ball, and B) there was no juice in 1940. Like i said yesterday, people ignore the fact that amphetamines were used over 60 years ago.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 08:22 PM
The reason I wouldn't allow it because of the records. All these players from the past did it clean. Now if you let the people who taken steroids break them then your disrespecting the game.
there was no creatine, any test boosting supps, glocosamine for joint support, recovery aids , etc that still are not on the banned list, and were not around years ago, does that not affect the records?

Mr. October
02-12-2009, 08:41 PM
I agree big time. Steroids have been made by the media to be some superhuman, off the charts thing. People in sports, every sport and every era look for an edge, and to say they didnt juice so they have the true records is bull because A) juice was not banned in ball, and B) there was no juice in 1940. Like i said yesterday, people ignore the fact that amphetamines were used over 60 years ago.

Exactly. PEDs don't make you play better initially, but allow you to stay healthy during the course of the season by keeping the muscles strong throughout the long season.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm not a doctor. But I do work at a gym where alot of steroids are taken, and with interest I did research. IF abused the body gets used to it, causing withdrawl when stopped. Causing other problems. If cycled the body never gets used to it and can still work normally with the standard amounts of testosterone, rather than increased. That is one neg affect of abusing roids.

I also am nutritionist and personal trainer of 8 years, with dozens and dozens of courses involving excercise science, nutrition, supplementation, kinesiology, etc. Yeah there are adverse affects, mostly with over use and prolonged use, not so much with proper use and off cycle. BUT ANY MEDICINE has adverse affects. Any of them do. So im tired of hearing about how roids are bad. People just listen to the media spin things. ITs so stupid.

Pitty'09
02-12-2009, 10:57 PM
If you can play, you can play - steroids won't make a hobo turn into a superstar...
Continue testing, make all results public and put a star next to every player that tests positive - but i don't think they should keep fighting this steroids battle because it's impossible to control.

I've always said - the biggest problem baseball faces is not steroids - but payroll...i'd rather every player be juiced and have every team competitive than have a clean game where 10 teams (teams like pittsburgh and florida) are already out of it before the season starts because they dont have the payroll...
Yeah, but they will turn a hoe into a housewife...

coltsncardsfan
02-12-2009, 11:24 PM
You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. First of all, you're assuming that steroids give you some superhuman abilities. Ask Alex Sanchez about that, who was the first guy to ever get caught with steroids and had like eight career home runs. Secondly, if your beef with steroids is that they're illegal, then to strip them from their baseball records is completely unrelated. If you're mad they broke the law (which was your argument) and think that lawbreakers should be removed from baseball, you've got a long list of players - Hall of Famers and otherwise - to remove.

The myth about steroids is completely overblown in America. It's this media-driven frenzy to automatically associate steroids with Incredible Hulk-like abilities, which is the furthest thing from the truth. It's not like you just inject a syringe full of steroids and then you can hit 500 home runs (again, ask Alex Sanchez about that). All steroids do is give you the ability to work out for longer - so you still have to put the work in.
Whether or not steroids should be legal is a major debate in and of itself.

Exactly. Take a look at all of the people that have actually tested positve, most didn't have a very exciting career. Yet whenever a true superstar's name is linked to PEDs everyone acts like the only reason that person had the success that he had is becuase of the drugs. A skinny McGwire hit 49 homeruns as a rookie, and A-Rod was (and still is by those who understand the game) widely considered the best player in the game. Yet as soon as a player's name is linked to roids, people seem to act like that the only reason for the player's success was because he had some miracle advantage. Yet we conveniently forget about all of those who have been caught that roids did not help.

Frank Costanza
02-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

couldnt agree more, frank tries to make this arguement many times no one listens im glad there is a thread with ppl who understand you cant be jacked and automatically hit the ball out of the park

jaysfan4ever
02-13-2009, 10:11 AM
couldnt agree more, frank tries to make this arguement many times no one listens im glad there is a thread with ppl who understand you cant be jacked and automatically hit the ball out of the park

Tell that to Frank Thomas, the dude swings with one arm and still hits it out of the park. I know this is an extreme example, but if guys start using steroids, you're gonna start seeing a lot of Frank Thomas-type hitters, who get by almost solely by muscling the ball out of the ballpark. The emphasis should be on skill level and not on bodybuilding.

NHock1120
02-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Bud Selig needs to get the sand out of his va-jayjay and when someone gets tested positive, kick them out of baseball. Period.

jaysfan4ever
02-13-2009, 10:31 AM
Exactly. Take a look at all of the people that have actually tested positve, most didn't have a very exciting career. Yet whenever a true superstar's name is linked to PEDs everyone acts like the only reason that person had the success that he had is becuase of the drugs. A skinny McGwire hit 49 homeruns as a rookie, and A-Rod was (and still is by those who understand the game) widely considered the best player in the game. Yet as soon as a player's name is linked to roids, people seem to act like that the only reason for the player's success was because he had some miracle advantage. Yet we conveniently forget about all of those who have been caught that roids did not help.

1st argument: How do we know when the guilty player started using PEDs? We don't, so how can we assume they've been clean for the rest of their career if there is evidence that they have used steroids for part of their career?

2nd argument: Yes, you do need a lot of skill to be a superstar at the major league level. BUT you can't compare a clean player's stats to a steroid-user's stats, because the steroid-user clearly has an advantage, strength-wise, which was gained by breaking an MLB law. These players were rewarded for breaking a MLB law by gaining an unfair competitive advantage, and hitting an extra X amount of HRs, because of the steroid use. Baseball should be considered a game that rewards players who do follow its rules, and punishes players who don't. In this way, baseball has integrity, and is not played by a bunch of cheaters, because cheating isn't tolerated, and should certainly not be accepted as something that just happens. When players get rewarded for breaking the rules, it sends a terrible message to the players. It basically comes down to a simple lack of respect to the integrity of the game of baseball on the part of many players. Like they've been given millions of dollars to do what they love, playing a game for gods sakes! All that the game of baseball asks for in return is that its players respect the need for integrity in the game of baseball. It's really sad that the players have gotten this greedy.

As for whether steroids have a place in baseball, I would say no, because players should not have to go beyond their natural boundaries to achieve maximum success in baseball. Regardless of whether it will or will not have a place in baseball in the future, we do know that it HAS NOT UP UNTIL THIS POINT, and has been a form of cheating, and cheating should NEVER be condoned in sports.

jaysfan4ever
02-13-2009, 10:38 AM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

Granted IF steroids are allowed, taking steroids would not be a form of cheating. But the fact remains that taking steroids was a form of cheating at the time, so the players DID cheat, and cheaters have to be punished in sports.

theuuord
02-13-2009, 11:38 AM
Granted IF steroids are allowed, taking steroids would not be a form of cheating. But the fact remains that taking steroids was a form of cheating at the time, so the players DID cheat, and cheaters have to be punished in sports.

See, this is the ridiculous part that everyone seems to believe is true.
It's not.

No, it wasn't.

So no, they didn't.

And no, they shouldn't.

sguglie2
02-13-2009, 11:51 PM
selig sent around a memo in 97 that said steroids are illegal. Just because they didn't test for it doesn't make it legal. Doesn't matter if it doesn't help you or if it turns you into Bruce Banner it's illegal. Stop pushing this lie that steroids were legal before 2004, they weren't. THey don't piss test every tom dick and harry for heroin either but that doesn't make it ok to use in baseball. ARod is a disgrace and hes never getting into cooperstown regardless of what "people who understand the game" think.

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-14-2009, 12:23 AM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

Philly has now dropped even lower in my eyes...leave it to a Philly fan to make an absurd, immoral thread like this one.

LET THEM USE IT....ARE YOU ****IN NUTS!?!?!

The game would be ruined...everyone would be walking around like Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire...everyone would be juiced...highschool kids....college kids....professional athletes.

When do the little leaguers start juicing?

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

If roids were allowed...so many people would start using them...it would be ridiculous.

Who cares about the integrity of the game.......People would be walking around...looking like monsters.

I dont want to live in a world like that.

BBall
02-14-2009, 01:01 AM
Move the fences to 600'. Let them juice and call it the BIG Leagues.

coltsncardsfan
02-14-2009, 01:51 AM
selig sent around a memo in 97 that said steroids are illegal. Just because they didn't test for it doesn't make it legal. Doesn't matter if it doesn't help you or if it turns you into Bruce Banner it's illegal. Stop pushing this lie that steroids were legal before 2004, they weren't. THey don't piss test every tom dick and harry for heroin either but that doesn't make it ok to use in baseball. ARod is a disgrace and hes never getting into cooperstown regardless of what "people who understand the game" think.


You are probably right, he won't get in. That's okay because every year people don't get in because the voters don't see them as worthy and then years later (when that same player is the best player on the ballot) suddenly they become "HOF material" Either they are Hall of Fame worthy or they are not. So I agree, he probably won't get in and by the time he is on the ballot most players likely won't care whether they make it or not. Players will eventually see a HOF induction as a political joke.

smashmouth
02-14-2009, 02:29 AM
MLB does allow steroids...cant really say they dont..104 were found guilty using roids and yet they are still playing...They are just trying to make it look like they are trying to take steroids out of the game but behind the smoke screen they arent doing anything

jbizzie10
02-14-2009, 02:55 AM
i use to agree with the argument that it takes alot more than roids to hit homeruns but the bigger picture is that if there are two athletes with almost equal abilities. one of the players starts juicing gains an advantage and gets a bigger contract and makes the all star team. is that fair to the other athlete? no its not and u cant say that it is. you can not reward someone for breaking the law.but baseball has to make a fair system and stop goin after just the people who are in line to break records.

RISE UP
02-14-2009, 02:57 AM
In some ways I agree. I'm tired of the -- Us Weekly of sports gossip. But where does it end? Is genetic manipulation ok? Robotic limbs? It sounds far fetched, but a one up always leads to another one up.

Havoc Wreaker
02-14-2009, 03:59 AM
Philly has now dropped even lower in my eyes...leave it to a Philly fan to make an absurd, immoral thread like this one.

LET THEM USE IT....ARE YOU ****IN NUTS!?!?!

The game would be ruined...everyone would be walking around like Barry Bonds and Mark Mcguire...everyone would be juiced...highschool kids....college kids....professional athletes.

When do the little leaguers start juicing?

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

If roids were allowed...so many people would start using them...it would be ridiculous.

Who cares about the integrity of the game.......People would be walking around...looking like monsters.

I dont want to live in a world like that.

So you believe if Cocaine and Heroin were legal everyone would be walking around high?

Im not saying I agree with the thread starter...Im saying your logic is ridiculous

thefeckcampaign
02-14-2009, 09:35 AM
They already do.They already do heroin, steal, cheat on test, and bring guns to school too. :rolleyes: ;)

thefeckcampaign
02-14-2009, 09:38 AM
So you believe if Cocaine and Heroin were legal everyone would be walking around high?

Im not saying I agree with the thread starter...Im saying your logic is ridiculousI will agree that the risk of getting caught is part of the deterrent for sure.

mike_noodles
02-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

You sir, are an idiot. The whole point is, either everyone takes them, or nobody does. When players take steroids they get a serious advantage over those who don't. Imagine if everyone took them, do you think Aaron could've tacked on some extra HRs, you bet your *** he could. Or if Fred McGriff would've taken them, he would have got to 600 HRs. That's the point, these guys who took them have inflated stats due to the drug.

philab
02-14-2009, 10:25 AM
So you believe if Cocaine and Heroin were legal everyone would be walking around high?

Im not saying I agree with the thread starter...Im saying your logic is ridiculous


If there was a perception that cocaine and heroin helped you make money -- or even more appropriately, that not using cocaine and heroin would cost you money -- then yeah, most people would be walking around high.


I understand your point, and it's a good one, but there's a big difference with steroids in baseball -- players' livelihoods are on the line. Even those players who under other circumstances wouldn't use would feel compelled to use because of a fear of being disadvantaged. Suddenly the health-conscious, law-abiding Frank Thomases (or whoever) of the world are effectively forced to do something that they're completely against -- something potentially harmful too.

theuuord
02-14-2009, 03:08 PM
Imagine if everyone took them, do you think Aaron could've tacked on some extra HRs, you bet your *** he could.

He did.

jbizzie10
02-14-2009, 07:12 PM
you cant honestly believe that hank aaron took steriods?!? lol thats the funniest thing i have heard in a while! i hope you believe that LOL

theuuord
02-14-2009, 08:22 PM
you cant honestly believe that hank aaron took steriods?!? lol thats the funniest thing i have heard in a while! i hope you believe that LOL

No, but I believe he took amphetamines, since he admitted to it.

jbizzie10
02-14-2009, 08:30 PM
yeah even so thats not steriods lol amphetamines increase motivation and energy they make you feel stronger. thats Not steroids lol so you cant say that hank aaron did steriods thats two total different drugs

bloodhawk
02-14-2009, 08:37 PM
the little league WS would not be the same anymore See This (http://i39.tinypic.com/oro49d.jpg)

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-14-2009, 08:59 PM
^^ see what Im talking about...little leaguers are juicing now...do you want to live in a world like that?

theuuord
02-15-2009, 02:24 AM
yeah even so thats not steriods lol amphetamines increase motivation and energy they make you feel stronger. thats Not steroids lol so you cant say that hank aaron did steriods thats two total different drugs

who said Hank Aaron did steroids? I said he did performance-enhancing drugs, which is true. Taking those drugs undoubtedly added to his home run total.

vigilantex69
02-15-2009, 02:45 AM
Are you serious? Is this a legitimate post? You people that stand behind these players are the reason why this **** seems ok! I have never and I will NEVER support a player that EVER used a PED. Call me old fashioned but I would give anything to get to see the days of Mantle, Gerhig, Ted Williams. It just makes me sick to see their records destroyed because of some overzealous punks who ALL they want to do is make millions of dollars. They could care less about their city, their fans, and for many of them even the US! To hell with them! BRING BACK OLD BASEBALL!

IRUAM #21
02-15-2009, 02:48 AM
the little league WS would not be the same anymore See This (http://i39.tinypic.com/oro49d.jpg)

:speechless:

Mr. October
02-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Are you serious? Is this a legitimate post? You people that stand behind these players are the reason why this **** seems ok! I have never and I will NEVER support a player that EVER used a PED. Call me old fashioned but I would give anything to get to see the days of Mantle, Gerhig, Ted Williams. It just makes me sick to see their records destroyed because of some overzealous punks who ALL they want to do is make millions of dollars. They could care less about their city, their fans, and for many of them even the US! To hell with them! BRING BACK OLD BASEBALL!

Who says those guys were clean? Sure baseball seemed much better back in the good ole days but thats because the media coverage wasn't what it is today. Those players could have been on PEDs and we would never know it unless one of them came out and said so.

The bottom line is baseball is at an all time high because of steroids. The sport has become relevent for good and bad. It's entertaining and we want more.

theuuord
02-15-2009, 08:46 PM
Are you serious? Is this a legitimate post? You people that stand behind these players are the reason why this **** seems ok! I have never and I will NEVER support a player that EVER used a PED. Call me old fashioned but I would give anything to get to see the days of Mantle, Gerhig, Ted Williams. It just makes me sick to see their records destroyed because of some overzealous punks who ALL they want to do is make millions of dollars. They could care less about their city, their fans, and for many of them even the US! To hell with them! BRING BACK OLD BASEBALL!

People have cheated since the dawn of baseball, period. There is no such thing as "old" baseball. The game has never been pure. Stop wishing for days that you never lived through and never existed.

philab
02-15-2009, 09:26 PM
The bottom line is baseball is at an all time high because of steroids. The sport has become relevent for good and bad. It's entertaining and we want more.

I can't really agree with that.

How do you reconcile such a statement with the fact that baseball only reached this level of popularity AFTER the steroids "crackdown"?


Truthfully, I have no real clue why baseball has seen such a popularity boom recently (especially in less than prosperous economic times). I would have to guess the parity is a factor, along with no Yankees championships in seven years. The Red Sox 2004 championship might also be a factor, with all the "fans" and interest it generated.

And part of me thinks people actually enjoy games that aren't routinely "slugfests." High-scoring games don't allow the tension to build up -- either because the lead is changing back and forth or because it's a blowout. There's something to be said for great pitching performances, especially when they come from both sides. It's a whole different kind of excitement.

Whatever the reason for the popularity, I don't think steroids has much to do with it.

thawv
02-15-2009, 10:06 PM
Okay, I know I'm probably going to be called 10000x different insults for saying this. But I am so sick and tired of hearing all this news about steroids. Started with Giambi being all over the news, then Sheffield and Palmeiro, then Mcgwire, then more recently, Clemens and always Bonds. And now Ortiz, A-Rod and Tejada. Who the **** cares!!!!! They all know the risk of taking them, and it does not affect anyone else. Just let them use them at their own discretion. And everyone says oh its cheating etc etc. Well its not cheating if anyone can do it. Also may I add, it takes ALOT more than being jacked to be good at baseball. Good hand eye cooridination, and the knowledge of the game is not helped by steroids. I know this might sound dumb but it's soooo annoying to turn on the TV and hear about all these trials and allegations of lying under oath and perjury. Just let it alone already! People are going to take them no matter what. No matter the consequences or anything, they are still going to be used and eventually they are going to find a way to get away with it.

And from a health aspect. If you cycle them correctly steroids aren't going to hurt you.

The only problem with allowing it is that it's against the law. Baseball couldn't allow it even if everybody involved wanted to and all agreed to it.

theuuord
02-15-2009, 10:10 PM
I can't really agree with that.

How do you reconcile such a statement with the fact that baseball only reached this level of popularity AFTER the steroids "crackdown"?

What are you talking about? Baseball really got its popularity back in 1998, during the home run chase and the Yankees dominance (not to mention like fifty other amazing things that happened in baseball that year). That was the year baseball really came back from the strike. It hasn't looked back, either.

Pitty'09
02-15-2009, 11:08 PM
yeah even so thats not steriods lol amphetamines increase motivation and energy they make you feel stronger. thats Not steroids lol so you cant say that hank aaron did steriods thats two total different drugs
Ur killin me dude, and ur also killin ur own argument. Classic case of haterism on the players that either took, or r alleged to take juice. He hates them so its wrong. Aaron admitts to taking something that is illegal gives u juice and makes u fell strong(completely not like juice right?), but he justifies it with...nothing. god its irritating to listen to people debate a subject that they have no intention of listening or rationalizing what so ever.

Pitty'09
02-15-2009, 11:13 PM
Bud Selig needs to get the sand out of his va-jayjay and when someone gets tested positive, kick them out of baseball. Period.
wow. how Oprah-ish that was. I would really, really edit this if I was u. this is a sports site dawg.:pity:

philab
02-15-2009, 11:24 PM
What are you talking about? Baseball really got its popularity back in 1998, during the home run chase and the Yankees dominance (not to mention like fifty other amazing things that happened in baseball that year). That was the year baseball really came back from the strike. It hasn't looked back, either.

In 1998, baseball got it's popularity BACK from after the strike, yes.

And yes, baseball hasn't looked back.

However, the last 2-3 seasons have seen even further growth in baseball, well past the 1998 or even 1993 (and how ever long before that) days.


And even if you want to claim 1998 was the "rebirth," the steroids scandal (2003-2004) should have made baseball's popularity wane. Instead, the sport has continued to grow since then.


Way too much is being made of the "steroids era." On one hand, we've got people screaming that the integrity of the game has been compromised. On the other, there's those practically glorifying the era, claiming it was good for baseball, blah blah blah.

Those who used steroids cheated. People have always cheated in baseball. Steroids did pose some much more serious problems than amphetamines and cocaine (certainly not the Black Sox scandal, though) -- in perception, politically, and for policy reasons -- but certainly not insurmountable problems. MLB finally got around to cracking down on steroids and baseball is better for it. Players will continue to cheat, but at least MLB isn't turning a blind eye anymore (at least to PEDs). So whatever. It's just a sport -- take it for what it is.

jbizzie10
02-16-2009, 12:03 AM
Ur killin me dude, and ur also killin ur own argument. Classic case of haterism on the players that either took, or r alleged to take juice. He hates them so its wrong. Aaron admitts to taking something that is illegal gives u juice and makes u fell strong(completely not like juice right?), but he justifies it with...nothing. god its irritating to listen to people debate a subject that they have no intention of listening or rationalizing what so ever.

My comment was in reaction to another poster saying that hank aaron did steriods! which he responded and said that well he did amphetamines and i responded that wasnt the same drug and there were differences! i wasnt justifying anything that hank aaron did! i dont HATE any player that has took or is alleged of taking juice. i think that baseball caused the problem be overlooking its usage and allowing it to be available. i dont blame the players! what is more annoying is someone who rips someone's statement before they know what its about! my friend thats what is irritating and ignorant:mad:

theuuord
02-16-2009, 12:13 AM
My comment was in reaction to another poster saying that hank aaron did steriods! which he responded and said that well he did amphetamines and i responded that wasnt the same drug and there were differences! i wasnt justifying anything that hank aaron did! i dont HATE any player that has took or is alleged of taking juice. i think that baseball caused the problem be overlooking its usage and allowing it to be available. i dont blame the players! what is more annoying is someone who rips someone's statement before they know what its about! my friend thats what is irritating and ignorant:mad:

Which is what you did.
You were incorrectly assuming that I said Hank Aaron did steroids. Which I never did. Or even insinuated.

jbizzie10
02-16-2009, 12:21 AM
You sir, are an idiot. The whole point is, either everyone takes them, or nobody does. When players take steroids they get a serious advantage over those who don't. Imagine if everyone took them, do you think Aaron could've tacked on some extra HRs, you bet your *** he could. Or if Fred McGriff would've taken them, he would have got to 600 HRs. That's the point, these guys who took them have inflated stats due to the drug.

then u responded "he did" so actually you did say that! LOL

theuuord
02-16-2009, 12:50 AM
then u responded "he did" so actually you did say that! LOL

no.
the quote was
"do you think Aaron could've tacked on some extra HRs, you bet your *** he could."

which he did.

jbizzie10
02-16-2009, 12:58 AM
thats why when i ask u about him taking steriods u started your whole amphetamine argument! LOL keep dancing around your comments.

SeoulBeatz
02-16-2009, 01:09 AM
yeah... its wrong, but this **** is getting old.

im so sick of Sportscenter consisting of: Steroids, The Big Three, The Patriots, T.O, and all the other ******** that i could care less about. Give everyone a fair amount of press for once

theuuord
02-16-2009, 01:11 AM
thats why when i ask u about him taking steriods u started your whole amphetamine argument! LOL keep dancing around your comments.

Uhhhh because he did take amphetamines, and never has had any evidence to say he took steroids.

I'm failing to understand your point.

jbizzie10
02-16-2009, 01:45 AM
my point is that you said something and then went back and said u didnt. amphetamines are not steriods! saying that hank aaron did steriods is ridicolous! you have no basis besides that he admitted to taking amphetamines. but if u knew anything about the two u would know that they are not the same!

jbizzie10
02-16-2009, 01:48 AM
no.
the quote was
"do you think Aaron could've tacked on some extra HRs, you bet your *** he could."

which he did.

he did? tack on extra home runs by using steriods? thats my point

jbizzie10
02-16-2009, 02:03 AM
and FYI hank aaron admitted to trying amphedamines once and he said that it made him feel bad and he never done it again.

theuuord
02-16-2009, 09:42 AM
my point is that you said something and then went back and said u didnt. amphetamines are not steriods! saying that hank aaron did steriods is ridicolous! you have no basis besides that he admitted to taking amphetamines. but if u knew anything about the two u would know that they are not the same!

lol, what do you know about the two?

and I don't mean "what has the media told you about the two?"

what do you ACTUALLY know about the two?

bloodhawk
02-16-2009, 12:47 PM
amphetamines are really used more for neurological advantages...like for better concentration, energy levels, etc...it's basically for ADHD and the like

anabolic steroids basically is external testosterone...it's speeds up protein synthesis which helps you bulk up faster....

2 different classes of drugs and two different uses for them...

jbizzie10
02-17-2009, 02:15 AM
amphetamines are really used more for neurological advantages...like for better concentration, energy levels, etc...it's basically for ADHD and the like

anabolic steroids basically is external testosterone...it's speeds up protein synthesis which helps you bulk up faster....

2 different classes of drugs and two different uses for them...

looks like he nailed it :clap:

theuuord
02-17-2009, 02:40 AM
amphetamines are really used more for neurological advantages...like for better concentration, energy levels, etc...it's basically for ADHD and the like

anabolic steroids basically is external testosterone...it's speeds up protein synthesis which helps you bulk up faster....

2 different classes of drugs and two different uses for them...

AS only help you bulk up faster if you actually do the weight training required for them. If not they don't add on any muscle or strength, just dead weight.

amphetamines are essentially speed, and much different from AS in that they require no extra work to achieve their effect.

leiasgoldbikini
02-17-2009, 10:48 AM
AS only help you bulk up faster if you actually do the weight training required for them. If not they don't add on any muscle or strength, just dead weight.

amphetamines are essentially speed, and much different from AS in that they require no extra work to achieve their effect.

So you are saying that.... because you have to work out to get results from steroid use that they are somehow legitimate?

bloodhawk
02-17-2009, 02:07 PM
So you are saying that.... because you have to work out to get results from steroid use that they are somehow legitimate?

yes you have to work out to get bigger...lets put it this way...amphetamines releases neuro-chemicals help you focus more than the average human and to keep you energy levels up for longer periods of time increasing motivation...

steroids is basically external testoterone...it let's your body heal and build up faster (not better)...so if you use both, you bulk up faster, your muscle reaction are quicker, etc...

but your body sort of tends to cut corners when you build muscle w/ steroids than than if you do it naturally, that's why Steroid users are more prone to injuries, but since they are on the substance, they heal much faster...but once they are off....

getting back to your original question...steroids aren't magic dust which you sprinkle on yourself and magically you become cut-up and huge...it's like protein shakes (except w/ way more side effects)...to benefit from it, you need to work out...otherwise you're shooting hormones up for nothing...and excess hormones could send you into roid rage...

leiasgoldbikini
02-17-2009, 02:13 PM
yes you have to work out to get bigger...lets put it this way...amphetamines releases neuro-chemicals help you focus more than the average human and to keep you energy levels up for longer periods of time increasing motivation...

steroids is basically external testoterone...it let's your body heal and build up faster (not better)...so if you use both, you bulk up faster, your muscle reaction are quicker, etc...

but your body sort of tends to cut corners when you build muscle w/ steroids than than if you do it naturally, that's why Steroid users are more prone to injuries, but since they are on the substance, they heal much faster...but once they are off....

getting back to your original question...steroids aren't magic dust which you sprinkle on yourself and magically you become cut-up and huge...it's like protein shakes (except w/ way more side effects)...to benefit from it, you need to work out...otherwise you're shooting hormones up for nothing...and excess hormones could send you into roid rage...

I'm just asking, if because you still have to put work in, does that make steroid use legitimate in your opinion?

bloodhawk
02-17-2009, 02:30 PM
I'm just asking, if because you still have to put work in, does that make steroid use legitimate in your opinion?

no it shouldn't be...this is why

steroids and amphetamines moderated really well by experts may be beneficial, assuming the other aspects like nutrition and the like are well in balance...

but the kids who take this stuff watch these guys don't have experts training them, they don't have the blood work and the necessary level checks for it...they take and assume that's it..and these are the kids we hear going on roid rages and stuff

and not to mention we are dealing with hormones here...remember how women used to take external estrogen for menopause?...they first said it was the greatest thing...now it's been shown that it increases their risk for breast cancer...

studies have shown steroids have lead to premature MIs (heart attacks), strokes, liver problems, kidney problems, psych issues..

so no...in addition, it shrinks your manhood...that should be enough for most of you to stay off--

theuuord
02-17-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm just asking, if because you still have to put work in, does that make steroid use legitimate in your opinion?

This question isn't really possible for me to answer because I think the whole idea of "legitimacy" in sports has been overblown to the point of absurdity. If you are to believe the standard of legitimacy that has been set by any average fan, then the sport has never been "legitimate" - cheating is (and always has been) as natural in baseball as taking the first pitch in an at-bat.

The steroids "controversy" is just an overblown concept created by the media to tarnish legacies (specifically Bonds's) and sell papers. Anyone who has done research on steroids KNOWS that they are far from some miracle drug that you just pop in and become Hulk-like. (Just ask Alex Sanchez.) That's another point that most people seem to completely ignore in the whole steroids debate.