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View Full Version : Reasons why you dont trade JO.



B2theRY
02-11-2009, 12:34 PM
here are my reasons why you dont trade O'Neal.

1) Starting to pick up his game.

2) $23M off the books in 2010

3) By keeping him you arent giving a team more cap space to potentionally steal bosh from us.

4) You hope this is just an off year with all these injuries and next season a year together of bosh, calderon, JO, Bargnani & Possibly Joey G playing the way he is playing maybe the raps would be in better position to compete next season and they will still have money to spend this off-season.

5) I believe next season his value would be even higer due to the fact at seasons end his contract expires if he plays well enough the team can sign him for less money without going against their cap. (so if the raps kept him maybe we can get him back for $7million or so)


I dont know those are just off the top of my head feel free to add any of your own... remember this is why I WOULDNT trade him. So dont post why you would.

Bob_at_york
02-11-2009, 12:57 PM
First, I am not voting in the poll because there is no option that fits my opinion.

here are my reasons why you dont trade O'Neal.

1) Starting to pick up his game.
That is a reason to trade him. It is always good to "Sell high".


2) $23M off the books in 2010
I am starting to wonder if that matters. I think that when we have to compete with 15 other teams for free agents we are going to lose. But this summer we would only have to compete with 3-5 teams. I like our chances.


3) By keeping him you arent giving a team more cap space to potentionally steal bosh from us.
If he decides to take less money somewhere else then we can't do anything about it, we need to field the best team we can to prove that Toronto is the best choice for him.


4) You hope this is just an off year with all these injuries and next season a year together of bosh, calderon, JO, Bargnani & Possibly Joey G playing the way he is playing maybe the raps would be in better position to compete next season and they will still have money to spend this off-season.
I have never liked the idea of having three starting bigs for two starting spots. It is nice in theory but it hasn't worked and I don't see it working next year.


5) I believe next season his value would be even higer due to the fact at seasons end his contract expires if he plays well enough the team can sign him for less money without going against their cap. (so if the raps kept him maybe we can get him back for $7million or so)
His trade value MIGHT be higher a year from now, I can't dispute that.



I dont know those are just off the top of my head feel free to add any of your own... remember this is why I WOULDNT trade him. So dont post why you would.
Sorry, I just read this part now, I didn't mean to do it.

killersweet
02-11-2009, 01:00 PM
I canít vote on this poll, cuz there isnít an option that states why I would trade him.

RapToronto95
02-11-2009, 01:08 PM
add:

6) He brings toughness to the team. Something Bosh, Bargnani, and Graham should be learning from him!

B2theRY
02-11-2009, 01:28 PM
I canít vote on this poll, cuz there isnít an option that states why I would trade him.

thats the point.. its why wouldnt you trade him
there must be reasons why you wouldnt?

B2theRY
02-11-2009, 01:29 PM
if bosh wants to leave trade his *** and keep JO tell him we want to sign him for lesser money when his contract is up.

Bricklayer
02-11-2009, 02:05 PM
You can't honestly compete in the playoffs if your 2 big men(Bosh,Bargs) don't like to do the dirty work. That's the main reason I'd like to keep J.O, but potential injuries remain concerns for me with Oneal.

ramz.n
02-11-2009, 02:08 PM
i agree with bob, who completely destroyed this thread leaving me with nothing else to say..he stole every single pt i was going to address.

Bob_at_york
02-11-2009, 02:15 PM
if bosh wants to leave trade his *** and keep JO tell him we want to sign him for lesser money when his contract is up.

What makes you think he will stay here with us and not sign with a different contender?

I will add something to your list (see I am playing along): JO's would be very valuable for our team in the playoffs when there are more "play-ons" and less fouls called overall.

killersweet
02-11-2009, 02:43 PM
thats the point.. its why wouldnt you trade him
there must be reasons why you wouldnt?

I want him traded big time. But ur only option for that is trade him cuz raptors suck? Thatís not the reason I want him traded.
The reason I wouldnít want him traded have been covered already in the thread!

B2theRY
02-11-2009, 02:50 PM
What makes you think he will stay here with us and not sign with a different contender?

I will add something to your list (see I am playing along): JO's would be very valuable for our team in the playoffs when there are more "play-ons" and less fouls called overall.

worst case he leaves and you get $23M in caproom..I think you would also get a good feel from him if he wants to stay..


you guys are all so negative :P

Bob_at_york
02-11-2009, 03:01 PM
worst case he leaves and you get $23M in caproom..I think you would also get a good feel from him if he wants to stay..


you guys are all so negative :P

I am not being negative. I think that Bosh and Bargs are good enough as our starting frontcourt. Most people would call me an optimist.

bartron_44
02-11-2009, 03:04 PM
7)DEFENSE- when was the last time a raptor had 9 blocks? Camby maybe? Kinda goes with 6), but he never said D :)

Bob_at_york
02-11-2009, 03:10 PM
7)DEFENSE- when was the last time a raptor had 9 blocks? Camby maybe? Kinda goes with 6), but he never said D :)

Keon Clark not Camby.

Mile High Champ
02-11-2009, 03:11 PM
Bosh and Bargs are both face up to the basket players. JO on the other hand plays with his back to the basket. Now from what I have seen with great teams, its difficult to win many games when both your PF and C are 10 feet from the basket at all times. JO looks for the high percentage shots downlow, something Bosh and Bargs sometimes fail to realize at all in the closing minutes of a game. Now JO yes does miss some easy shots but at least he is getting to the basket when the teams needs him to. JO is the raptor that provides the toughness, the defensive intensity (other than Graham) and the desire to be a go to guy late in games provided he gets the touches. He seems to be the only one of our three bigs that cares about playing defense and being a force in the paint for us on defense. His willingness to put the team ahead of himself is something that this team needs. He plays hard every game and I love the fact he is always willing to take a charge. No other raptor is even interested in jumping in front of a guy to prevent an easy basket other than JO. JO is very much apart of this team now and for the next year. I see no reason to trade him.

raptor25rs
02-11-2009, 03:27 PM
my only question is, can he stay healthy?

Mile High Champ
02-11-2009, 03:30 PM
my only question is, can he stay healthy?

yes he can..

argo
02-11-2009, 03:32 PM
trade anyone if it makes the team better short and long term.
going through another year with his contract tying up money that could be better spread around is the only thing that concerns me. i don't think the organization can afford it.

Mile High Champ
02-11-2009, 03:38 PM
By the way, that has to be one of the dumbest polls I have ever seen, Can a mod change that so it at least makes sense and resembles somewhat intelligent options for users to select.

HoopsMachine
02-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Well I would have to wait to see what teams will offer. So far the Marion + Banks deal is the only tangible trade that has surfaced, and I don't support that trade. The deadline is a week from tomorrow so Im sure we will see reports of a few offers thrown around.

dillon8928
02-11-2009, 04:11 PM
Hey theres one word the raptors cant do without him "rebound!"

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 12:25 PM
You know what? If that was Jermaine OíNealís last game as a Raptor Ė and while I have nothing concrete to base it on, I believe it was Ė he went out giving them just what he was supposed to.

Link: http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

raptor fan
02-12-2009, 12:28 PM
i think we have to trade him unless we want next season to turn out like this season with 23M attached to one player. we'd have the same depth problems, seeing how we'd have to replace parker, moon, voshuhl, and graham with limited cap space. our team has enough depth problems as it is, imagine how bad it would be next season.

Gup
02-12-2009, 12:48 PM
trade him

SuperDayv
02-12-2009, 01:19 PM
Whatever you want to say about O'Neal you've got to admit that he doesn't take any plays off. He treats every game and even play like it were his last and leaves it all out on the floor. Even though it didn't work out, he brought a toughness to this team we haven't had since Charles Oakley really, and I'm still sad to see him go. If he goes.

kanersen
02-12-2009, 02:17 PM
i would not trade mr swaggerman unless it made sense
ie: not involving marcus banks

magikmc
02-12-2009, 02:35 PM
I WOULDN"T trade him this year, and i WOULD trade him at the deadline NEXT year.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 02:39 PM
I WOULDN"T trade him this year, and i WOULD trade him at the deadline NEXT year.

and what do you with Bargnani until then?

magikmc
02-12-2009, 02:45 PM
and what do you with Bargnani until then?

Start him. O'neal off the bench. Make sure you don't have Bargs playing SF at any point during a game. Play CB4 at the 3 if you have to. When Bargs is on the bench, O'neal C Chris PF. When O'neal is on the bench, Bargs C, Bosh PF. When CB4 is on the bench, take your pick PF C. If you feel the need to put all 3 on the floor use CB4 at SF. Play the hot hand at the end of games. Like i said if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and we're playing for the lottery. If it does, then great. Bargnani is in our future, so his development is more important than keeping O'neal happy. Plus O'neal seems to be classy so i doubt he'll make noise.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 02:51 PM
Start him. O'neal off the bench. Make sure you don't have Bargs playing SF at any point during a game. Play CB4 at the 3 if you have to. When Bargs is on the bench, O'neal C Chris PF. When O'neal is on the bench, Bargs C, Bosh PF. When CB4 is on the bench, take your pick PF C. If you feel the need to put all 3 on the floor use CB4 at SF. Play the hot hand at the end of games. Like i said if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and we're playing for the lottery. If it does, then great. Bargnani is in our future, so his development is more important than keeping O'neal happy. Plus O'neal seems to be classy so i doubt he'll make noise.

I hate doing this because you are right, JO has been a class act, but I wonder if it is just that, an ACT. JO is happy starting. He doesn't want to come off the bench. When he came off the bench earlier this year, I think the only reason he was happy was because he thought he was being traded to Miami. I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that JO's pride would get in the way of him coming off the bench for 20 games in a row.

magikmc
02-12-2009, 03:10 PM
I hate doing this because you are right, JO has been a class act, but I wonder if it is just that, an ACT. JO is happy starting. He doesn't want to come off the bench. When he came off the bench earlier this year, I think the only reason he was happy was because he thought he was being traded to Miami. I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that JO's pride would get in the way of him coming off the bench for 20 games in a row.

You may be right too, who knows. Even if that is the case though, he can always be traded in the off-season if he is unhappy. We would still get good value for him, we just may not get as many suitors as at the deadline because in the off-season "everyone" thinks they have a shot to win. That being said, we don't know whats going to happen in the offseason. We may be talking about trading Bosh, and we might need O'neal to start for us next year. We might get a good draft pick and look at J.O. as expendable. We could trade Bosh and O'neal next year. There are a ton of scenarios. I just don't think we should trade O'neal just for the sake of trading him when its highly plausable we get better value by waiting.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 03:43 PM
You may be right too, who knows. Even if that is the case though, he can always be traded in the off-season if he is unhappy. We would still get good value for him, we just may not get as many suitors as at the deadline because in the off-season "everyone" thinks they have a shot to win. That being said, we don't know whats going to happen in the offseason. We may be talking about trading Bosh, and we might need O'neal to start for us next year. We might get a good draft pick and look at J.O. as expendable. We could trade Bosh and O'neal next year. There are a ton of scenarios. I just don't think we should trade O'neal just for the sake of trading him when its highly plausable we get better value by waiting.

see the thing is, I don't think we will get better value if we wait, especially if the "3 BIGS" isn't working this year. I am afraid that if we don't trade JO then the season will end in total disappointment and Bosh will want to leave because of it.

blujaysrock
02-12-2009, 05:07 PM
With the way JO is playing as of late firs 9 blocks then 6 last night, I wouldn't trade him, maybe next year but not this year, not really worth it.

Jonathan2323
02-12-2009, 05:09 PM
With the way JO is playing as of late firs 9 blocks then 6 last night, I wouldn't trade him, maybe next year but not this year, not really worth it.

you trade him this year to get a free agent next year and try to keep Bosh happy. Bosh and JO just dont work well together.

blujaysrock
02-12-2009, 05:14 PM
you trade him this year to get a free agent next year and try to keep Bosh happy. Bosh and JO just dont work well together.

IF Bosh wants to leave he's going to leave IMO. It's not going to matter who we put beside him, even with Marion we wouldn't have much coming off the books this year anyways, considering we're like 12M over the cap

cb4#1fan
02-12-2009, 06:01 PM
i would not trade oneal this year maybe the off season.Remember this guy is coming out from a big injury last season.let him find his game back then make your decission in the off season.whats there to lose raps are not going to the playoffs.

magikmc
02-12-2009, 08:24 PM
see the thing is, I don't think we will get better value if we wait, especially if the "3 BIGS" isn't working this year. I am afraid that if we don't trade JO then the season will end in total disappointment and Bosh will want to leave because of it.

Sorry bro, but i don't think Bosh is coming back. Just my opinion, but i can't see it. Also, i don't think J.O.'s trade value can go down at all next season. What are you worried about? The major attraction to him as a trading chip is his expiring contract. If he's traded this year it doesn't help a team that's trying to get under the luxury tax, next year his salary would come off at the END of the season, so you don't have to worry about that issue with him. At least 10 teams are expected to clear cap space for 2010, and J.O. would have the biggest expiring contract in the league. Thats a big bargaining chip, and I can guarentee we will have trade partners even if he's not playing (just look at Lafrentz).

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 08:29 PM
Sorry bro, but i don't think Bosh is coming back. Just my opinion, but i can't see it. Also, i don't think J.O.'s trade value can go down at all next season. What are you worried about? The major attraction to him as a trading chip is his expiring contract. If he's traded this year it doesn't help a team that's trying to get under the luxury tax, next year his salary would come off at the END of the season, so you don't have to worry about that issue with him. At least 10 teams are expected to clear cap space for 2010, and J.O. would have the biggest expiring contract in the league. Thats a big bargaining chip, and I can guarentee we will have trade partners even if he's not playing (just look at Lafrentz).
What is the point of trading JO if Bosh isn't coming back. Should trade Bosh then and try to keep JO. I know that JO's worth as an expiring will go up next year but a lot of teams will have expirings, if he is horribly injured next season then he won't be worth anything on the court. Right now he has on the court value and long-term value for the other team.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 08:31 PM
IF Bosh wants to leave he's going to leave IMO. It's not going to matter who we put beside him, even with Marion we wouldn't have much coming off the books this year anyways, considering we're like 12M over the cap

So you don't think anything that happens over the next year matters? If the Raptors win two championships over the next two seasons than Bosh is still going to leave? I disagree. I think that if we surround him with a good enough team then he will be happy here. It won't be easy to surround him with that good a team but we should try.

B2theRY
02-12-2009, 08:34 PM
my only question is, can he stay healthy?

bosh hasnt stayed healthy either.

B2theRY
02-12-2009, 08:35 PM
By the way, that has to be one of the dumbest polls I have ever seen, Can a mod change that so it at least makes sense and resembles somewhat intelligent options for users to select.

thank you.

magikmc
02-12-2009, 08:38 PM
What is the point of trading JO if Bosh isn't coming back. Should trade Bosh then and try to keep JO. I know that JO's worth as an expiring will go up next year but a lot of teams will have expirings, if he is horribly injured next season then he won't be worth anything on the court. Right now he has on the court value and long-term value for the other team.

Put it this way, we agree to disagree...:clap:

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 08:46 PM
bosh hasnt stayed healthy either.

Big age difference in my mind. There is more wear and tear on JO from over the years.

B2theRY
02-12-2009, 08:48 PM
i dont think BC wants banks.. I think he believes JO is better than marion and will improve the heat and that he should get something of value for O'Neal who brings a lot more to the game than a marion who can leave at seasons end... lets not forget he gave up TJ, Rasho and a 1st to get ONeal I doubt he will take less for him in a trade several months later.

B2theRY
02-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Big age difference in my mind. There is more wear and tear on JO from over the years.

if bosh is having knee problems now they arent going to get better the older he gets.

I've been pleased with Oneal whenever he plays and stays healthy.. if they dont trade him you just limit his minutes the rest of the season and get him into next season healthy and ready to go.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2009, 09:12 PM
if bosh is having knee problems now they arent going to get better the older he gets.
that could be true but JO's would still be worse.


I've been pleased with Oneal whenever he plays and stays healthy.. if they dont trade him you just limit his minutes the rest of the season and get him into next season healthy and ready to go.
I have said this 100 times, what makes you so convinced that JO would be fine with limited minutes off of the bench and how would that help his trade value?

B2theRY
02-13-2009, 12:09 AM
limit his minutes if they are out of the playoffs to keep him healthy going into next season i do not think he will care.

lorenz00
02-13-2009, 01:08 AM
i my self is a JO fan and i think he needs to stay with the raptors... why? what are the raptors lucking out of? toughness and stuff.... the only raptors (beside oneil) that has toughness is joeyG ... everyone is soft like bargani... my point is we need to build around tough guys... member the pistons? bad boys? im sure u guys do, they compete with MJ and the bulls because of their toughness.... if i put untouchables with the toronto raptors it has to be JO,JoeyG and Parker(sometimes showing toughness) Maybe Calderon) everyone else i would consider available i know i didn't mention bosh to the untouchables because i dont think he's a good championship leader... but his a great player but i think his like Andre iguadala.. not good enough franchise player...(not Clutch) all my point is raptors need toughness to compete for the championship .... they have to be Mean!!! and i mean it!

raptor fan
02-13-2009, 11:41 AM
i my self is a JO fan and i think he needs to stay with the raptors... why? what are the raptors lucking out of? toughness and stuff.... the only raptors (beside oneil) that has toughness is joeyG ... everyone is soft like bargani... my point is we need to build around tough guys... member the pistons? bad boys? im sure u guys do, they compete with MJ and the bulls because of their toughness.... if i put untouchables with the toronto raptors it has to be JO,JoeyG and Parker(sometimes showing toughness) Maybe Calderon) everyone else i would consider available i know i didn't mention bosh to the untouchables because i dont think he's a good championship leader... but his a great player but i think his like Andre iguadala.. not good enough franchise player...(not Clutch) all my point is raptors need toughness to compete for the championship .... they have to be Mean!!! and i mean it!

i understand what he brings to the table, and dont get me wrong, i love his mentality as a player but at 23M next season, he completely eliminates any chance of the raptors improving next season. we'd only have limited cap space to fill a number of holes on our team. we wouldn't be making a strong case to chris or any free agent in 2010 to come to toronto.