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View Full Version : Heat are out of the running for amare, bulls are the front runners??



kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 11:23 AM
I cant believe the heat offered this:speechless:



Amar'e Watch Day 2 : The Amar'e Stoudemire trade rumors continue to heat up with the first wave of reactions coming out of Phoenix. Stoudemire held court last night in Philadelphia telling reporters that in his mind it was inevitable that he'd be the guy traded, but said if he was not traded he'd continue to give the team his all. Stoudemire said after meetings with management last week, he felt the decision to make changes was more about economics and financial decisions. Here is where some things stand today:
Miami and New Jersey Are Out: The Miami HEAT and the New Jersey Nets seem to be out of the running for Stoudemire. The HEAT's offer was said to include sending Shawn Marion's ending deal and Michael Beasley along with a future first round draft pick, but the deal would have required Phoenix to send as many as four other players to Miami to make the deal work under the cap. The Suns also did not view Marion or Beasley as guys that can insure home court, taking the HEAT out of the race. The Nets offer was said to include the ending contract of Stromile Swift along with Yi Jianlian, Ryan Anderson and a first round draft pick. Again, not enough talent to insure home court in April for the Suns. Both teams' offers are still on the table according to a source familiar with the talks, meaning should other talks fall through the Suns always have the option of coming back, but the odds the HEAT or Nets land Amar'e looks pretty slim today.

Chicago The Front Runner: The Chicago Bulls might have the pieces for a deal, it now comes down does Chicago really want to make a deal? Sources near the Bulls said they are still not sold that landing Amar'e makes them a better basketball team now or in the future. It seems some of the waffling revolves around Tyrus Thomas who over the past week has averaged better than 15 points per game, and has a double-double or close to it, in his last 7 games. The Bulls' discussions for Stoudemire are said to include Thabo Sefolosha, the ending contracts of Drew Gooden and Cedric Simmons and Thomas. It seems that this may be the deal that gets it done from Phoenix's point of view, but Bulls sources said neither Bulls' GM John Paxson or Vinny Del Negro have agreed that this deal works for the Bulls. The belief is this thing will not get resolved before the All-Star break, and that the Bulls want to "sleep on it" for a few days.

Golden State Pushing Hard: The Golden State Warriors made it known they wanted in on the Stoudemire talks, but sources close to the situation said the Suns have no interest in the pieces the Warriors have to offer. Any deal with Golden State would have involved the Base-Year Compensation deals of either Monta Ellis or Andris Biedrins and that in itself does not create luxury tax breathing room going forward. It does provide some interesting options for the Suns, but the amount of talent other offers brings to Phoenix makes a deal through Golden State highly unlikely, despite the Warriors' desire to get involved. If the Warriors are really putting Biedrins on the market, they may find an interested suitor but considering he's out until after the All-Star break some teams might wants to see him healthy before pulling the trigger on a deal. Expect to hear more about the Warriors in the trade market, but do not expect the Warriors to land Stoudemire.

Detroit In The Mix: The Pistons are in the mix for Stoudemire, their offer is said to be built around the ending contract of Rasheed Wallace and likely Amir Johnson. Much like the Bulls reported offer, this deal does give the Suns what they said they wanted, and that's future flexibility and enough talent to compete for homecourt. Say what you will about Rasheed Wallace the person, Rasheed Wallace the player could bring the grit and toughness defensively the Suns are missing, and Amir Johnson is an exceptional future talent. Terry Porter's familiarity with Wallace certainly would make the transition easier. If the Pistons put a first round draft pick in the mix, that might be the best deal for the Suns' defined goals of flexibility and a first round playoff berth this season. Can the Suns squeeze a little more talent out of the deal remains to be seen. Pistons sources said Joe Dumars is not really engaging in talks about possible deals around the team, but the source said Joe tends not to be chatty when he's working on a deal.

Toronto Doesn't Have The Chips: The Raptors were rumored to have made a pass at the Suns regarding Stoudemire, but league sources said the Raptors simply do not have the chips to make a deal, unless they decided to move Chris Bosh, which sources close to the situation said is not going to happen. The Raptors are being aggressive in trying to find a deal before the February 19th trade deadline, it just does not look like it will be for Stoudemire.

The Suns are not in any hurry to make a deal, according to sources close to the talks. The belief is the Suns will work this thing to the deadline before making a decision, and there is still a strong belief that if the right deal does not present itself, the Suns will hold the line rather than sell off their best asset for less than the value they feel he should return. Keep in mind the Suns played this game with Shawn Marion for the better part of two years as well.

Cavs and Celtics Holding Firm: While some teams are out in the marketplace trying to find a deal that improves their team, both the Celtics and Cavaliers are saying they will not be playing the trade game at the deadline. The Celtics were rumored to have eyes for an additional shooter and were linked to Orlando's J.J. Redick a few weeks ago. Since those rumors broke the Celtics have been mostly quiet on the trade front and this week indicated to reporters that they would not be making a deal before the trade deadline. The Cavaliers, who just lost Sasha Pavlovic for 4 to 6 weeks to a high ankle sprain will not be looking at deals involving the ending contract of Wally Szczerbiak. In fact Wally may move into the starting lineup while Sasha is out. The Cavaliers are saying that while they have offers and options in the trade market, team chemistry and continuity matter more than roster tweaks. A Cavs sources said that LeBron James made it clear to management a few weeks ago that he wanted to see this team kept intact, and with all the hype surrounding James' pending free agency in the Summer of 2010 don't be surprised if he's calling the shots on personnel going forward.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11508

JordansBulls
02-10-2009, 11:26 AM
Well if the Suns didn't accept that, then I know we need to offer more to get Amare.

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 11:30 AM
Its hard for me to believe that pat would offer beasley and a future pick:(.
There is aslo a rumor that the bulls might be going for nash instead :confused:




Well if the Suns didn't accept that, then I know we need to offer more to get Amare.

J$mo0th_3o5
02-10-2009, 11:36 AM
Man what more do they want:speechless: Can't believe Pat offered that:pity: Thank God it didn't happened.

jayl1377
02-10-2009, 11:39 AM
Its hard for me to believe that pat would offer beasley and a future pick:(.
There is aslo a rumor that the bulls might be going for nash instead :confused:

i hope we dont touch nash

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Tell me about it, I mean that is the most attractive offer but I dont want to give up on beasley yet. I think amare will be going to Detroit or Chicago??




Man what more do they want:speechless: Can't believe Pat offered that:pity: Thank God it didn't happened.

Grand Master B
02-10-2009, 11:43 AM
Chicago front office cracks me up! once AGAIN they are going to do nothing....... and regret it!

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 11:47 AM
The only thing that paxson has ever done right was drafting rose and that was a no brainer, but if the bulls are smart they would fire pax before he trades Rose. Just like he did with brand,chandler ect.....





Chicago front office cracks me up! once AGAIN they are going to do nothing....... and regret it!

Wade_County
02-10-2009, 11:48 AM
Im willing to bet that Amare is a Sun come Feb 19th.

jrodmesche
02-10-2009, 11:51 AM
how did the suns not exept a great trade like that geez

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 11:55 AM
I tell you what, all the players that played for the bulls were great when playing but when it comes down to coaching, brodcasters, executive and making decisions they suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






how did the suns not exept a great trade like that geez

stuckeyballer3
02-10-2009, 11:55 AM
I really disagree that chicago are front runners. There is no way phx is looking at the chicago offer as a serious one! Like it says at the top the detroit deal is the best for phx. Rasheed is a perfect fit for the suns and amir coming off the bench, thats a hell of a lot better then having gooden, thomas, and that other no name lol. The fact of the matter is does detroit want amare, i belive if detroit wants him he'll be suited up in piston blue:)

J$mo0th_3o5
02-10-2009, 11:56 AM
how did the suns not exept a great trade like that geez

Yep but good thing they didn't. I don't want to give up Beasley.

Fear_GAS_OLDier
02-10-2009, 12:12 PM
idk why the heat would take marion back, he just doesnt fit their style anymore

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Why does the article keep saying the suns want home court, shouldn't they worry about making the playoffs?

Fear_GAS_OLDier
02-10-2009, 12:12 PM
but the marion beasley deal is better then the hinrich gooden/thomas deal

Fear_GAS_OLDier
02-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Why does the article keep saying the suns want home court, shouldn't they worry about making the playoffs?

agreed!

SouljahPhil...
02-10-2009, 12:14 PM
I think the detroit deal is best for the suns...I'll ask detroit for 2 first rounders plus amir.,affalo and sheed...

chicagowhitesox
02-10-2009, 12:21 PM
The only thing that paxson has ever done right was drafting rose and that was a no brainer, but if the bulls are smart they would fire pax before he trades Rose. Just like he did with brand,chandler ect.....

but chandler sucks. all he does is catch alley oops from chris paul.

Draco
02-10-2009, 12:25 PM
The only thing that paxson has ever done right was drafting rose and that was a no brainer, but if the bulls are smart they would fire pax before he trades Rose. Just like he did with brand,chandler ect.....

Paxson didn't trade Brand. I'm pretty sure you have no clue about the organization's history or Paxson. hell.. if you find it hard to believe that Riles would trade Beasley for Amare then you probably have no clue about the Heat.

jayl1377
02-10-2009, 12:27 PM
i'd hate to give up Tyrus for Amare...I'd rather see Hinrich/Gordon + Gooden + Simmons + Lottery Protected First Rounder for Amare + Barbosa

gocubs2118
02-10-2009, 12:28 PM
I really disagree that chicago are front runners. There is no way phx is looking at the chicago offer as a serious one! Like it says at the top the detroit deal is the best for phx. Rasheed is a perfect fit for the suns and amir coming off the bench, thats a hell of a lot better then having gooden, thomas, and that other no name lol. The fact of the matter is does detroit want amare, i belive if detroit wants him he'll be suited up in piston blue:)

No offense but the Pistons offer sucks. The Bulls offer blows them out of the water especially if they include both Noah and Thomas.

jayl1377
02-10-2009, 12:29 PM
No offense but the Pistons offer sucks. The Bulls offer blows them out of the water especially if they include both Noah and Thomas.

yea it does suck lol...the suns get zero youth out of the deal which is what they want.

MJ-BULLS
02-10-2009, 12:35 PM
i dont think that detroit will land amare, if someone was to land him it should be the bulls,

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 12:40 PM
First of all homie, I was raised in chicago and I saw all 6 bulls championship in chicago I went out in the streets when they won thier first ring....When you were in diapers I was following bird,magic,and Jordan career. Sorry I messed up on brand so kill me, it was krause WOW...Point is anyone in that organazation sucks and continue with paxson, Krause kept the core of jordan pippen and phil but they had drama in between pippen wanted to leave at one point, and phil was done with krause. Now let me tell you that if you sit there and support paxson than your the one that dont know crap because paxson is afraid to pull any such big deal because he is a puss they only thing that he has done right was drafting rose.....And for the record I DID NOT WANT RILEY TO TRADE BEASLEY, ITS LIKE TRADING ROSE FOR NASH! Right now rose has only been in the league for half of a season and nash is one of the greatest pg even at his age.....Amare is been in the league since HS and has had knee surgery yeah' he 26 but beasley is 20 with lots of pontential...NEXT TIME DONT COME AT ME LIKE IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT????





Paxson didn't trade Brand. I'm pretty sure you have no clue about the organization's history or Paxson. hell.. if you find it hard to believe that Riles would trade Beasley for Amare then you probably have no clue about the Heat.

jeffvdone
02-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Why the hell is Danny Ferry not going to do anything this trade deadline?!?!?! Is he smoking to much dope to realize they got their butts handed to them by the lakers? Im not saying trade for Amare but trade for SOMEONE!!!!!!!

Bulls4Lyfe
02-10-2009, 12:43 PM
i find it hard to believe that riley offered beasley, marion, and a 1st for amare. what team is going to offer a better deal than that? huge expiring contract with player that they know can fit their team in Marion, young stud in Beasley, and a draft pick??

jayl1377
02-10-2009, 12:46 PM
i find it hard to believe that riley offered beasley, marion, and a 1st for amare. what team is going to offer a better deal than that? huge expiring contract with player that they know can fit their team in Marion, young stud in Beasley, and a draft pick??

they dont want marion back even for his expriring...he was cancerious there and thats why they dealt him the first time

Bulls4Lyfe
02-10-2009, 12:54 PM
they dont want marion back even for his expriring...he was cancerious there and thats why they dealt him the first time

I really don't think he was a cancer on the suns team. heck, they were in FIRST place when they traded him last year..look where they are now. ricky davis is a cancer, shawn marion not so much. maybe marion wanted a little bit more recognition, but I'm not sure he would be fine for 1/2 a season more in Phx.

That being said, I would rather the Heat pursue the Marion/Banks for JO/Moon or 1st rounder trade. we free up more cap space for 2010 by getting rid of banks and get an inside presence without giving up any of our young talent (Cook, Beasley, Chalmers)

IRUAM #21
02-10-2009, 01:01 PM
Thank god Miami didnt do this, it would have been a huge mistake.

rrude
02-10-2009, 01:03 PM
Why does the article keep saying the suns want home court, shouldn't they worry about making the playoffs?

Yeah there's a lot of BS in that report. PHX wouldn't jump all over Beasley? Amare is a whiner, doesn't seem to like defense and fades in big games.

As far as the Bulls go, all we heard last 2 or so years was, they are the front runners for Garnett, they are the front runners for Gasol. And it was all BS. They are afraid to make mistakes. Personally I think they just need to shake it up there, but as you can probably tell, I am not a big Amare supporter.

The Suns are fooling themselves if they making a blockbuster trade is going to stabilize the team and get them further in the playoffs. Trading Amare is move that looks past this year. There's no move PHX can make to get themselves in contention for a title.

Draco
02-10-2009, 01:14 PM
First of all homie, I was raised in chicago and I saw all 6 bulls championship in chicago I went out in the streets when they won thier first ring....When you were in diapers I was following bird,magic,and Jordan career. Sorry I messed up on brand so kill me, it was krause WOW...

Well home slice, if you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have been criticised. I too have seen all 6 championships right here in Chicago but I also knew who traded Brand... :rolleyes:



Point is anyone in that organazation sucks and continue with paxson, Krause kept the core of jordan pippen and phil but they had drama in between pippen wanted to leave at one point, and phil was done with krause. Now let me tell you that if you sit there and support paxson than your the one that dont know crap because paxson is afraid to pull any such big deal because he is a puss they only thing that he has done right was drafting rose.....

I'd like to respond but you didn't make a single point that was worth a damn in those two run on sentences.


And for the record I DID NOT WANT RILEY TO TRADE BEASLEY, ITS LIKE TRADING ROSE FOR NASH! Right now rose has only been in the league for half of a season and nash is one of the greatest pg even at his age.....Amare is been in the league since HS and has had knee surgery yeah' he 26 but beasley is 20 with lots of pontential...NEXT TIME DONT COME AT ME LIKE IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT????[/B]

Are you frothing at the mouth when you're typing this drivel? That's the image that comes to mind.

Turtle55
02-10-2009, 01:15 PM
Stating Chicago has a deal that Phoenix would be ready to accept is hard to believe. I'm not totally shocked that they like Thomas better than Beasley just because Thomas fits their specific style better. Beasley is an amazing talent but he is a half court player that has questionable but improving defense. If Pax turns down a deal for Amar'e because of Thomas then I will officially give up on him. The only way I would turn down an Amar'e deal is if I have a Bosh deal set up.

DLeeicious
02-10-2009, 01:19 PM
Stating Chicago has a deal that Phoenix would be ready to accept is hard to believe. I'm not totally shocked that they like Thomas better than Beasley just because Thomas fits their specific style better. Beasley is an amazing talent but he is a half court player that has questionable but improving defense. If Pax turns down a deal for Amar'e because of Thomas then I will officially give up on him. The only way I would turn down an Amar'e deal is if I have a Bosh deal set up.

I'm confused. You say it's hard to believe that Chicago has a deal that Phoenix would accept then you give reasons why they would like Tyrus? You are kind of contradicting yourself there...

Bulls4Lyfe
02-10-2009, 01:41 PM
IF any team had the option of Michael Beasley or Tyrus Thomas and took Thomas, that would be absurd. The Heat's supposed package is better than anything the Bulls will probably offer.

DaSox_05
02-10-2009, 01:44 PM
What the hell is Paxson waiting for? Tyrus, Gooden, Safalosa, Simmons and a First round pick for Amare I would do that in a heart beat. Get off your azz Paxson and pull the trigger!

ATX
02-10-2009, 01:44 PM
Thank god Miami didnt do this, it would have been a huge mistake.

Agreed!

mrblisterdundee
02-10-2009, 01:46 PM
The Heat don't have many pieces to trade with unless Phoenix wants Marion back. The Bulls on the other hand have three talented small forwards to sweeten any deal.

MarioVI
02-10-2009, 01:51 PM
This might be the best deal that could be done. It gives Pheonix a slew of expiring deals along with talent to compete, specially if the big money player in this deal would play, If not they could release him and save those 20 mil off the cap. D'antoni gets his boy back to play along with duhon, chandler, danilo, plus they do not disturb their 2010 master plan. Atlanta on the other hand rolls the dice on a move that could put them with the top teams in the east. That move would allow horford and smith to move back to their more natural positions, 3 and 4. Rondo vs bibby, johnson vs allen, pierce vs smith, Kg vs horford, perk vs the big daddy; that would be an interesting series for sure, plus the two benches that have pretty much nothing.
oh and back to Pheonix, they dont give up on their future building around Amare.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=150~3263~3475~2016~3278~2797~2 772~509~2782~592~614&teams=18~18~21~18~21~21~21~21~21~18~1&te=&cash=

bigvdebo86
02-10-2009, 01:59 PM
lets go pistons make the damn deal

G-Menfan4lyfe
02-10-2009, 02:01 PM
This might be the best deal that could be done. It gives Pheonix a slew of expiring deals along with talent to compete, specially if the big money player in this deal would play, If not they could release him and save those 20 mil off the cap. D'antoni gets his boy back to play along with duhon, chandler, danilo, plus they do not disturb their 2010 master plan. Atlanta on the other hand rolls the dice on a move that could put them with the top teams in the east. That move would allow horford and smith to move back to their more natural positions, 3 and 4. Rondo vs bibby, johnson vs allen, pierce vs smith, Kg vs horford, perk vs the big daddy; that would be an interesting series for sure, plus the two benches that have pretty much nothing.
oh and back to Pheonix, they dont give up on their future building around Amare.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=150~3263~3475~2016~3278~2797~2 772~509~2782~592~614&teams=18~18~21~18~21~21~21~21~21~18~1&te=&cash=

The Knicks kind of get raped in that deal considering they give up nate and d. lee for basically only nash in return. Bad trade IMO

MarioVI
02-10-2009, 02:05 PM
Well I forgot to write that it would be a best deal for the Suns. It would only happen if D'Antoni thinks he can get something out Pachulia, since he is european big man, and if he can convince Donnie that Nash could be that good in his system. Plus maybe a couple of draft picks could sweeten the deal. Something like two second rounders, one each from Atlanta and Pheonix, and a future lottery protected first from Atlanta

JordansBulls
02-10-2009, 02:12 PM
What the hell is Paxson waiting for? Tyrus, Gooden, Safalosa, Simmons and a First round pick for Amare I would do that in a heart beat. Get off your azz Paxson and pull the trigger!

Throw in Deng as well and give us back Barnes.

wtfhendry
02-10-2009, 02:38 PM
i just dont see how rasheed helps the suns like a tyrus gooden will
i mean they would basically be giving up young for old , i mean they wana free up cap but they wanna get talent back most trades in past work like this young for expiring pless upside and guys who can potenitally be equal to the player they traded away this is why the bulls have the best shot and i think pax comes out of his shell where hes made everyone untouchable and pulls the trigger for amare realizing reinsdorf is getting fed up with the teams past inconsistency

what54!?
02-10-2009, 02:44 PM
Glad the heat didn't do this trade but a little shocked the suns turned this offer down. If I could choose between beasley and 1st or thomas and whoever I'm taking beasley and the first. No offense to bulls fans but beasley is just a talent with lots of upside.

lakerboy
02-10-2009, 02:54 PM
Paxson has tons of chips to assemble a good team. He doesn't have the balls to do so!!! Trade TT for Amare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wtfhendry
02-10-2009, 02:56 PM
yes of course beasly would be of more value to the suns then amare i dont think theese reports were true i mean why would the heat even trade beasly for amare beasly has potenial yet to be seen, i bet this never even took place it was prolly more a lines of haslem and marion and fillers and draft picks the heat are gonna end up trading for jermaine oneal

DaNtHeMaN628
02-10-2009, 03:21 PM
hoopsworld is not the most reliable source in the world.

ink
02-10-2009, 03:21 PM
hoopsworld is not the most reliable source in the world.

:clap::clap::clap:

JordansBulls
02-10-2009, 03:24 PM
Paxson has tons of chips to assemble a good team. He doesn't have the balls to do so!!! Trade TT for Amare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sure hope he pulls the trigger this time.

Chronz
02-10-2009, 03:37 PM
What do you mean you cant believe they offered that? Thats a very good deal, cant believe Suns wont take it.

Gup
02-10-2009, 03:38 PM
Did anyone see the Suns game last night?

something needs to be changed

ink
02-10-2009, 03:39 PM
What do you mean you cant believe they offered that? Thats a very good deal, cant believe Suns wont take it.

The Heat's offer is outstanding -- Marion, Beasley and a first rounder. Seems a bit too good to be true. Do the Suns want Marion back? Would they flip him in a three team deal?

LayZbone
02-10-2009, 03:45 PM
What do you mean you cant believe they offered that? Thats a very good deal, cant believe Suns wont take it.

What, in your opinion, are the pros and cons of that deal for the Heat? Just curious.

np6526
02-10-2009, 03:45 PM
they should trade Shaq for Marion. Then trade J-Rich for Diaw and Raja Bell....then BOOM....oh wait?

Rumored Trade: GM Steve Kerr to the unemployment line for a jar of pickles.

Big Zo
02-10-2009, 03:52 PM
If this rumor is true, (which I highly doubt) the Suns would have *** raped the Heat in that trade and Pat Riley would have probably been high or drunk when he offered it.

shortlunatic
02-10-2009, 03:55 PM
Well if the Suns didn't accept that, then I know we need to offer more to get Amare.

Not true because in order for the suns to get marion beasly and a 1st rounder they have to give up more players. With the Bulls they get gooden, sefolosha, thomas, first rounder for just amare ya dig?? Thats why I think Detroit needs to offer more because they only give one prospect unlike chi which gives two


I really disagree that chicago are front runners. There is no way phx is looking at the chicago offer as a serious one! Like it says at the top the detroit deal is the best for phx. Rasheed is a perfect fit for the suns and amir coming off the bench, thats a hell of a lot better then having gooden, thomas, and that other no name lol. The fact of the matter is does detroit want amare, i belive if detroit wants him he'll be suited up in piston blue:)

People like you make me mad becase you have no idea what your talking about. Thats why GMs dont listen to fans. Ayone who has watched the Bulls knows Sefolosha will be a solid SG/SF, he jus doesnt get good minutes because we have to many guards. I really like him, but if it is what it takes to get Amare then it needs to be done.


I'm confused. You say it's hard to believe that Chicago has a deal that Phoenix would accept then you give reasons why they would like Tyrus? You are kind of contradicting yourself there...

Not really, like him i agree thomas wil be good, but Chicago NEEDS Amare, we cant wait for thomas and even if we do, i dont think hell be a great low post player, just a good player who will be sick at cutting to the basket and getting easy dunks and layups


they should trade Shaq for Marion. Then trade J-Rich for Diaw and Raja Bell....then BOOM....oh wait?

Rumored Trade: GM Steve Kerr to the unemployment line for a jar of pickles.

lol

what54!?
02-10-2009, 04:00 PM
Lakers are the best team in the league right now. They are going to win the championship. Mark my words. Enjoy KB24!!! It is beautiful!!!
:pity: what does that have to do with the topic here....

gocubs2118
02-10-2009, 04:02 PM
The Heat's offer is outstanding -- Marion, Beasley and a first rounder. Seems a bit too good to be true. Do the Suns want Marion back? Would they flip him in a three team deal?

Marion would only be there for 2 months. The whole reason why they want him is so they can clear some cap room for next year.

ink
02-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Marion would only be there for 2 months. The whole reason why they want him is so they can clear some cap room for next year.

So that reinforces the attractiveness of the Heat deal.

gcoll
02-10-2009, 04:08 PM
If Kerr rejected Marion + Beasley......he needs to be fired.

Marion helps with our perimeter D, and brings back a friendly face (briefly). And then you also get the potential of Beasley.

NYMetros
02-10-2009, 04:10 PM
That trade would have been great for the Suns.

what54!?
02-10-2009, 04:11 PM
I don't think this is true. It just doesn't make sense to pass down a offer that good. A young talent, huge expiring contract, and a future 1st.

shortlunatic
02-10-2009, 04:17 PM
I don't think this is true. It just doesn't make sense to pass down a offer that good. A young talent, huge expiring contract, and a future 1st.

Because nobody state what you would have to give up yet. In order for that trade to work it says it may have involved up to four other players, so it could be two players at the least. You guys are not looking at the whoe picture you are just thinking marion, beasly, 1st rounder for amare

-Juice-
02-10-2009, 04:23 PM
How would the Suns not accept an offer for Beasley and a 1st? OMG Kerr is so stupid. Beasley would be the future of the Suns.

Draco
02-10-2009, 04:25 PM
If the rumors are true then apparently Beasley is a sexier name to fans than GM's...

LayZbone
02-10-2009, 04:26 PM
Because nobody state what you would have to give up yet. In order for that trade to work it says it may have involved up to four other players, so it could be two players at the least. You guys are not looking at the whoe picture you are just thinking marion, beasly, 1st rounder for amare

Marion
Beasley
J. Anthony (filler)
Diawara (filler)

for

Amare
Barnes
Dragic (filler)
Lopez (filler)

That gives the Suns cap relief, the Heat some SF compensation w/ Barnes....and the Suns would still have an incredible top 7: Shaq, Beasley, Marion, Hill, J-rich, Barbosa, Nash

Chronz
02-10-2009, 04:26 PM
What, in your opinion, are the pros and cons of that deal for the Heat? Just curious.
Remember the only way the deal works is if the Suns add Leandro Barbosa, or a few other players who could be usefull so its not just Amare for Beasley/Marion.

The only major downside is that you lose the potential pairing of Beasley and Bosh/Boozer, but you get the star Miami needs alongside Wade NOW, instantly makes this team better.

Amare is a much better player than hes showed this year, which is scary considering hes still All-Star good. Hes the perfect compliment to any slashers game, he can hit the outside shot better than just about every bigman outside of Dirk. Thing is what do you do with Haslem? If you play Amare at Center then your gonna get overwhelmed by every bigman, then again you already are.

Im not saying its a sure fire trade but its definitely worth considering. I guess it comes down to whether you want to wait to see if you can sign anyone in the offseason and just develop the role players this year, or if you want to make a run at the finals now.

Big Zo
02-10-2009, 04:30 PM
If the rumors are true then apparently Beasley is a sexier name to fans than GM's...

Nah, apparently Steve Kerr is just ********.

Ansy
02-10-2009, 04:32 PM
What, in your opinion, are the pros and cons of that deal for the Heat? Just curious.

Pros:

Can probably reload on rollplayers over the summer and will be back in the championship hunt as early as next year. A good title run next year makes it very likely that Wade stays in 2010.

Two superstars who are the same age and entering their prime. You would contend until Wade retires.

Amare is a sure thing, a proven playoff performer. Heat would be a very dangerous mid-seed even this year.

Wade is injury prone and he be forced to retire young, like Isiah Thomas (another stud who relentlessly drove to the hole). Contending ASAP when you have one of the two best players in the league should be a priority. Additionally, Riles is old and wants another ring for the Heat before he retires. He doesn't want to sit around and hope Beasley turns into a dominant scorer when one of the best bigmen in the game is available.

Cons:

Risk of Amare leaving in 2010.

Risk Beasley becomes better than Amare.

Amare's a max player whereas Beasley's a rookie contract. Those cap space concerns could deny the Heat a good free agent later.


Personally, I think it would be worth it for the Heat. Wade + Amare > LeBron + Ilgauskus. You're one piece away from a championship with that core.

Lakers4ItAll
02-10-2009, 04:33 PM
Wade n Amare would be sick

king4day
02-10-2009, 04:40 PM
If Kerr rejected Marion + Beasley......he needs to be fired.

Marion helps with our perimeter D, and brings back a friendly face (briefly). And then you also get the potential of Beasley.

He would have to give up I believe Lopez and Dragic to make the money work. That's his concern. I'd like to think he could work it out where the Heat would buy them out and we'd resign them

LayZbone
02-10-2009, 04:41 PM
Remember the only way the deal works is if the Suns add Leandro Barbosa, or a few other players who could be usefull so its not just Amare for Beasley/Marion.

The only major downside is that you lose the potential pairing of Beasley and Bosh/Boozer, but you get the star Miami needs alongside Wade NOW, instantly makes this team better.

Amare is a much better player than hes showed this year, which is scary considering hes still All-Star good. Hes the perfect compliment to any slashers game, he can hit the outside shot better than just about every bigman outside of Dirk. Thing is what do you do with Haslem? If you play Amare at Center then your gonna get overwhelmed by every bigman, then again you already are.

Im not saying its a sure fire trade but its definitely worth considering. I guess it comes down to whether you want to wait to see if you can sign anyone in the offseason and just develop the role players this year, or if you want to make a run at the finals now.


Pros:

Can probably reload on rollplayers over the summer and will be back in the championship hunt as early as next year. A good title run next year makes it very likely that Wade stays in 2010.

Two superstars who are the same age and entering their prime. You would contend until Wade retires.

Amare is a sure thing, a proven playoff performer. Heat would be a very dangerous mid-seed even this year.

Wade is injury prone and he be forced to retire young, like Isiah Thomas (another stud who relentlessly drove to the hole). Contending ASAP when you have one of the two best players in the league should be a priority. Additionally, Riles is old and wants another ring for the Heat before he retires. He doesn't want to sit around and hope Beasley turns into a dominant scorer when one of the best bigmen in the game is available.

Cons:

Risk of Amare leaving in 2010.

Risk Beasley becomes better than Amare.

Amare's a max player whereas Beasley's a rookie contract. Those cap space concerns could deny the Heat a good free agent later.


Personally, I think it would be worth it for the Heat. Wade + Amare > LeBron + Ilgauskus. You're one piece away from a championship with that core.

thanks guys. my main concern would be how thin the rest our team would be outside of Wade+Amare, with some help from Haslem, Chalmers and Cook. I'm not sure if that's enough to compete with deep, balanced teams like CLE, ORL and BOS.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 04:50 PM
The reason Beasley and Marion for Amare was rejected was for the fact tyrus has been playing alot better as of now and his stock is high,and Beasley might be "the name" but what I have heard is that a lot of scouts like Tyrus's athleticism over Beasley's potential,and not against the fact that Tyrus could be as good or better than Amare that's why he was drafted so high a few years back.Given with that the suns supposedly don't want Marion and they would receive more from the bulls with Thabo having a very good upside and having him for a longer period of time,with Marion only for the season pared with the fact they don't even wan't him back.

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 04:54 PM
^ Beasley will be way better than TT will ever be
enough said..

Draco
02-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Depends what you're looking for; Beasley can't touch Tyrus' defensive abilities.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 04:56 PM
yes that maybe,but the value of Beasley "right now" is not as high as Tyrus,and its about now not later.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 04:59 PM
Exactly why they want Tyrus,because of his defensive abilities.

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 05:02 PM
Depends what you're looking for; Beasley can't touch Tyrus' defensive abilities.

Beasly is better than Tyrus, way better. I know you want Amare, but you can't come close to what the Heat offer was, unless you send Deng and Tyrus.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:04 PM
Beasly is better than Tyrus, way better. I know you want Amare, but you can't come close to what the Heat offer was, unless you send Deng and Tyrus.

Yes this is true but as I stated Beasley's defense at this point is sub-par to Tyrus,and Tyrus is scoring about as much as Beasley recently,so like I said its about now,not later.

wtfhendry
02-10-2009, 05:04 PM
i just read read that kerr rejected beasly in the daily herald lol he said he completely like tyrus thomas more and feels that there is slim chance beasly fits into the suns system one team eliminated from trade speculations 20 more to go............ heat out

Draco
02-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Beasly is better than Tyrus, way better. I know you want Amare, but you can't come close to what the Heat offer was, unless you send Deng and Tyrus.

I'm actually neutral on the Amare trade. I'm not sold on Amare being the best long term fit to go with Rose. He's 6 years older, plays no defense and has had knee surgery. TT's 2 years old than Rose, plays excellent defense and has no health risks. That said, I'd be happy if the Bull's got him... or if they didn't. I'd be happy either way because I'm one of the few Bull's fans who thinks Paxson knows what he's doing.

As far as the Beasley/TT comparisons.. I'll repeat, Beasley can't touch TT's defense and there's no reason for me to believe that Beasley ever will. He's not that type of player.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:08 PM
i just read read that kerr rejected beasly in the daily herald lol he said he completely like tyrus thomas more and feels that there is slim chance beasly fits into the suns system one team eliminated from trade speculations 20 more to go............ heat out

That's what I'm saying! Beasley is good but dose not fit them,mostly defensively by them wanting a more defensive style,and Tyrus Thomas brings that,with upside "lots of it",So the Heat have been eliminated.

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 05:10 PM
I really disagree that chicago are front runners. There is no way phx is looking at the chicago offer as a serious one! Like it says at the top the detroit deal is the best for phx. Rasheed is a perfect fit for the suns and amir coming off the bench, thats a hell of a lot better then having gooden, thomas, and that other no name lol. The fact of the matter is does detroit want amare, i belive if detroit wants him he'll be suited up in piston blue:)
no he will be a bull by next week

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:12 PM
no he will be a bull by next week

I agree,all things are pointing to it.

kjsunsfan7
02-10-2009, 05:13 PM
suns better not trade him to the bulls, unless we get gordon or kirk, with thomas, but Sarver the cheap a*s wants to save money so he prob. would make a bad trade, if he wants those sell outs he can't keep going cheap, we want a championship, atleast the playoffs this year, were sitting at the 9th spot right now...if it was colangelo he would have done the deal I want, amare for beidrins and ellis, or amare for jackson and filler like marrow or even crawford depending what he makes cus jackson makes around 7 mil. sarvers(part/mostly owner) needs to start spending otherwise these phx fans will just start watching the games from our hd tvs and save 50 on tickets 9 on beer, and 6.50 on nachos.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:14 PM
You can say there being cheap but,the stocks did just crash 400 points! Meaning that really only large market teams I.E. New York,Chicago can afford the Huge deals,but let me make it clear,every one is suffering!

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm actually neutral on the Amare trade. I'm not sold on Amare being the best long term fit to go with Rose. He's 6 years older, plays no defense and has had knee surgery. TT's 2 years old than Rose, plays excellent defense and has no health risks. That said, I'd be happy if the Bull's got him... or if they didn't. I'd be happy either way because I'm one of the few Bull's fans who thinks Paxson knows what he's doing.

As far as the Beasley/TT comparisons.. I'll repeat, Beasley can't touch TT's defense and there's no reason for me to believe that Beasley ever will. He's not that type of player.
TT is 2 years older and is in his 3rd year

give Beasley some time to improve in his defense, unlike Amare the Heat staff are teaching him and he's learning so let's look back 3 years from now or even 2 years from now and see how his defense has improve

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 05:42 PM
I'm actually neutral on the Amare trade. I'm not sold on Amare being the best long term fit to go with Rose. He's 6 years older, plays no defense and has had knee surgery. TT's 2 years old than Rose, plays excellent defense and has no health risks. That said, I'd be happy if the Bull's got him... or if they didn't. I'd be happy either way because I'm one of the few Bull's fans who thinks Paxson knows what he's doing.

As far as the Beasley/TT comparisons.. I'll repeat, Beasley can't touch TT's defense and there's no reason for me to believe that Beasley ever will. He's not that type of player.

What makes him so good on D? He is a good weak side help defender and can get blocks. Dirk just lit him up like a christmas tree and had 44 points. Scola had 18 rebounds and 13 points. D west went off for 24, Bosh and Brags went off on him. He is not as good as you say.

Beasley has a chance to be a Franchise type player, TT will not be a franchise type player ever.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:46 PM
TT is 2 years older and is in his 3rd year

give Beasley some time to improve in his defense, unlike Amare the Heat staff are teaching him and he's learning so let's look back 3 years from now or even 2 years from now and see how his defense has improve

But like I said to the suns its about now,not 3 years down the road,they just don't feel Beasley will do the same things Tyrus will plain and simple.

gocubs2118
02-10-2009, 05:50 PM
What makes him so good on D? He is a good weak side help defender and can get blocks. Dirk just lit him up like a christmas tree and had 44 points. Scola had 18 rebounds and 13 points. D west went off for 24, Bosh and Brags went off on him. He is not as good as you say.

Beasley has a chance to be a Franchise type player, TT will not be a franchise type player ever.

Tyrus wasn't guarding Dirk, Noah was.

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 05:50 PM
But like I said to the suns its about now,not 3 years down the road,they just don't feel Beasley will do the same things Tyrus will plain and simple.

Then why isn't the Tyrus deal done? They don't want him, maybe if they get Deng with him, but not a deal centered around just TT.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:51 PM
What makes him so good on D? He is a good weak side help defender and can get blocks. Dirk just lit him up like a christmas tree and had 44 points. Scola had 18 rebounds and 13 points. D west went off for 24, Bosh and Brags went off on him. He is not as good as you say.

Beasley has a chance to be a Franchise type player, TT will not be a franchise type player ever.

Tyrus Thomas if used correctly could be a great if not franchise player same thing with Beasley and also Tyrus is only like 23,which means he still has what 13 years left??,that's why the Bulls where so hesitant to trade him for Gasol and even now for Amare.

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 05:51 PM
Tyrus wasn't guarding Dirk, Noah was.

TT guards the C spot for you guys? If he is such a good defender, shouldn't he be guarding the elite PF's, or the other teams best big?

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 05:51 PM
But like I said to the suns its about now,not 3 years down the road,they just don't feel Beasley will do the same things Tyrus will plain and simple.

lol they must be ******** then, and if they think TT will make them better and get them to the playoffs or getting pass the 1st round then they are living in a fantasy world :)

but I'm glad the trade didn't go down because losing Beasley will be one of the biggest mistakes the Heat franchise would of done, like trading Caron Butler away
but at least it got us a championship

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:53 PM
Then why isn't the Tyrus deal done? They don't want him, maybe if they get Deng with him, but not a deal centered around just TT.

The deal isn't done because Amare is in the all-star game in Phoenix,and they want him to play in it.
At least thats what has been said.

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 05:53 PM
Tyrus Thomas if used correctly could be a great if not franchise player same thing with Beasley and also Tyrus is only like 23,which means he still has what 13 years left??,that's why the Bulls where so hesitant to trade him for Gasol and even now for Amare.

That is why they are so hesitant to win.

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 05:53 PM
The deal isn't done because Amare is in the all-star game in Phoenix,and they want him to play in it.
At least thats what has been said.

Ohh, I see. Thanks Pax.

shortlunatic
02-10-2009, 05:54 PM
What makes him so good on D? He is a good weak side help defender and can get blocks. Dirk just lit him up like a christmas tree and had 44 points. Scola had 18 rebounds and 13 points. D west went off for 24, Bosh and Brags went off on him. He is not as good as you say.

Beasley has a chance to be a Franchise type player, TT will not be a franchise type player ever.


Good point, but u still dont take into account everything else. You make it sound like its as simple as trading for either TT, or Beasly and its not. The Suns dont want Marion, The probably dont want to risk their all-star for just one possible talent, and they probably dont want to shed any more than one extra player in the trade. With the bulls they get the possibilty of Sefolosha as being at least a solid player, they get goodens expiring, and they dont have to give up anymore than Amare. The only way I think Heat really tops the bulls one is if you know for sure that Beasley will be a franchise player. With that said, I've been saying all along, I think the Pistons are the biggest competition for the Bulls. Paxson really needs to come through.

gocubs2118
02-10-2009, 05:54 PM
TT guards the C spot for you guys? If he is such a good defender, shouldn't he be guarding the elite PF's, or the other teams best big?

The part of the game I was watching, Noah was guarding him but I guess I could be wrong. Either way, Dirk is one hell of a player and could do that on anyone.

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 05:54 PM
Tyrus Thomas if used correctly could be a great if not franchise player same thing with Beasley and also Tyrus is only like 23,which means he still has what 13 years left??,that's why the Bulls where so hesitant to trade him for Gasol and even now for Amare.

I see him as a good starter not a great player or a franchise player

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 05:58 PM
That is why they are so hesitant to win.

No,its that The belief is that Tyrus could be a player like Amare with better defensive skills.That's what he is beginning to show,but..he's not there yet that's why there are finally looking to trade,for the present,you can say there getting tired as the fans of waiting.

shortlunatic
02-10-2009, 05:58 PM
lol they must be ******** then, and if they think TT will make them better and get them to the playoffs or getting pass the 1st round then they are living in a fantasy world :)

but I'm glad the trade didn't go down because losing Beasley will be one of the biggest mistakes the Heat franchise would of done, like trading Caron Butler away
but at least it got us a championship


I dont think its ******** its just the way you play basketball. If Kerr thinks Thomas will fit best in his system over beasley you have to wait and find out what kind of game he has planned.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 06:00 PM
I see him as a good starter not a great player or a franchise player

That's probably what ends up happening but..the potential is there,that's why he was drafted so high even though he played no high school basketball only one year of college at LSU as a walk-on.

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:10 PM
TT guards the C spot for you guys? If he is such a good defender, shouldn't he be guarding the elite PF's, or the other teams best big?

Actually Thomas WAS guarding Dirk for about half of the game, contrary to what the other poster said. The first quarter Thomas was used on Dirk and he held him to something like 1-10 shooting. In the second quarter Tyrus was also on him for part of the time but Noah was also used. At the start of the 3rd Tyrus was on him but was switched to the center position because Vinny decided to run a small lineup. Nocioni ended up guarding Dirk and was BURNED badly and by the time Vinny decided to put Tyrus back on him, Dirk was in a ridiculous zone where he just couldn't miss, and how many players in the NBA can guard a 7 footer with a fadeaway jumper when he's on? None..

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 06:11 PM
Actually Thomas WAS guarding Dirk for about half of the game, contrary to what the other poster said. The first quarter Thomas was used on Dirk and he held him to something like 1-10 shooting. In the second quarter Tyrus was also on him for part of the time but Noah was also used. At the start of the 3rd Tyrus was on him but was switched to the center position because Vinny decided to run a small lineup. Nocioni ended up guarding Dirk and was BURNED badly and by the time Vinny decided to put Tyrus back on him, Dirk was in a ridiculous zone where he just couldn't miss, and how many players in the NBA can guard a 7 footer with a fadeaway jumper when he's on? None..

Mark Blount

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:19 PM
I believe Kerr may like Thomas more than Beasley right now because he believes that Tyrus's impact on the team now may allow them to be a legitimate playoff threat. My thinking is that Kerr may actually want to keep Shaq and the rest of the team this year. By getting rid of Amare and acquiring Thomas they get a great help defender who can also knock down shots, finish in the lane, and shoot at a nice clip from the free-throw line. Tyrus doesn't have the post moves or offensive IQ like Amare, but he would be perfect next to Shaq. This also allows J-Rich to be a bigger part of the offense without having to worry about getting Stoudemire touches. At the same time the Suns get a very good scoring/rebounding vet in Gooden off the bench and also a great defender with length in Thabo, who could be used in a defensive role off the bench against the likes of Kobe, Roy, Ginobili, McGrady, JR Smith, etc.

This trade allows the roles of Nash, J-Rich, and Shaq to increase. If Tyrus can average something like 13ppg, 8rpg, and 2-3 bpg it would work out very well. At the same time Gooden could be an offensive force off the bench for the team and Barbosa's role could also expand. This trade also makes the Suns much better defensively, and of course gets them under the luxury tax.

In the end I do agree that Beasley's upside is higher than that of Thomas. Beasley could realistically average 25 and 10, while Thomas is probably going to top out at around 18 and 10 but he will always be a better defender because he has better height, length, and athleticism.

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:24 PM
Mark Blount

Hahaha, right. Even if Mark Blount was as great as you're making him sound he still has 3 inches and 30 pounds over Tyrus, so he should be better against a 7 footer.

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 06:25 PM
Hahaha, right. Even if Mark Blount was as great as you're making him sound he still has 3 inches and 30 pounds over Tyrus, so he should be better against a 7 footer.

ummm I was joking........



I believe Kerr may like Thomas more than Beasley right now because he believes that Tyrus's impact on the team now may allow them to be a legitimate playoff threat. My thinking is that Kerr may actually want to keep Shaq and the rest of the team this year. By getting rid of Amare and acquiring Thomas they get a great help defender who can also knock down shots, finish in the lane, and shoot at a nice clip from the free-throw line. Tyrus doesn't have the post moves or offensive IQ like Amare, but he would be perfect next to Shaq. This also allows J-Rich to be a bigger part of the offense without having to worry about getting Stoudemire touches. At the same time the Suns get a very good scoring/rebounding vet in Gooden off the bench and also a great defender with length in Thabo, who could be used in a defensive role off the bench against the likes of Kobe, Roy, Ginobili, McGrady, JR Smith, etc.

This trade allows the roles of Nash, J-Rich, and Shaq to increase. If Tyrus can average something like 13ppg, 8rpg, and 2-3 bpg it would work out very well. At the same time Gooden could be an offensive force off the bench for the team and Barbosa's role could also expand. This trade also makes the Suns much better defensively, and of course gets them under the luxury tax.

In the end I do agree that Beasley's upside is higher than that of Thomas. Beasley could realistically average 25 and 10, while Thomas is probably going to top out at around 18 and 10 but he will always be a better defender because he has better height, length, and athleticism.

:laugh2:
now I know your a bulls fan

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:26 PM
ummm I was joking........

Well Blount gets playing time on your team, or did and he's pretty terrible so I figured he had to be doing something.

Not like I pay much attention to he or the Heat anyway.

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Well Blount gets playing time on your team, or did and he's pretty terrible so I figured he had to be doing something.

Not like I pay much attention to he or the Heat anyway.

:pity:
I was joking lol
there's nothing more to be said

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:28 PM
ummm I was joking........




:laugh2:
now I know your a bulls fan

What did I say that is so ridiculous?

Keep in mind I was saying that KERR may feel that way, not that I do. Do I believe Tyrus makes them a threat or anything? No, but nothing I said about his, Gooden's, or Thabo's game was out of line or homeristic

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:29 PM
:pity:
I was joking lol
there's nothing more to be said

My bad

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 06:31 PM
What did I say that is so ridiculous?

That the Suns would be a threat with TT, Beasley is more of a compliment to Shaq's game than TT. Beasly is a better shooter.

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:32 PM
That the Suns would be a threat with TT, Beasley is more of a compliment to Shaq's game than TT. Beasly is a better shooter.

I didn't say that the Suns would be a threat. I said KERR may feel that way.

Why is Beasley such a better compliment? Offensively sure, but the Suns aren't in need of offense. Tyrus could still give them plenty of offense and defensively he's a MUCH better fit next to Shaq.

MiamiHeat
02-10-2009, 06:33 PM
Beasley >>>>>> Thomas

/thread

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:35 PM
Beasley >>>>>> Thomas

/thread

Duh..

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 06:38 PM
I didn't say that the Suns would be a threat. I said KERR may feel that way.

Why is Beasley such a better compliment? Offensively sure, but the Suns aren't in need of offense. Tyrus could still give them plenty of offense and defensively he's a MUCH better fit next to Shaq.

People think they Need D. They need a system that the players buy into, they have good to great players at every position, they need a better coach. Some people act as if Beasley is scared to play D. We have only seen Beasly play for a half a year, he will be better than TT by the start of next season, if he isn't already.

ink
02-10-2009, 06:39 PM
I believe Kerr may like Thomas more than Beasley right now because he believes that Tyrus's impact on the team now may allow them to be a legitimate playoff threat. My thinking is that Kerr may actually want to keep Shaq and the rest of the team this year. By getting rid of Amare and acquiring Thomas they get a great help defender who can also knock down shots, finish in the lane, and shoot at a nice clip from the free-throw line. Tyrus doesn't have the post moves or offensive IQ like Amare, but he would be perfect next to Shaq. This also allows J-Rich to be a bigger part of the offense without having to worry about getting Stoudemire touches. At the same time the Suns get a very good scoring/rebounding vet in Gooden off the bench and also a great defender with length in Thabo, who could be used in a defensive role off the bench against the likes of Kobe, Roy, Ginobili, McGrady, JR Smith, etc.

This trade allows the roles of Nash, J-Rich, and Shaq to increase. If Tyrus can average something like 13ppg, 8rpg, and 2-3 bpg it would work out very well. At the same time Gooden could be an offensive force off the bench for the team and Barbosa's role could also expand. This trade also makes the Suns much better defensively, and of course gets them under the luxury tax.

In the end I do agree that Beasley's upside is higher than that of Thomas. Beasley could realistically average 25 and 10, while Thomas is probably going to top out at around 18 and 10 but he will always be a better defender because he has better height, length, and athleticism.

Good post. Nicely laid out.

klvanzu
02-10-2009, 06:41 PM
People think they Need D. They need a system that the players buy into, they have good to great players at every position, they need a better coach. Some people act as if Beasley is scared to play D. We have only seen Beasly play for a half a year, he will be better than TT by the start of next season, if he isn't already.

If you honestly feel that Beasley will be as good of a defensive player by next year, more power to you. But, I don't see how it's possibly when Tyrus has better size, athleticism, and instincts.

markie8002000
02-10-2009, 06:54 PM
http://paspn.net/default.asp?p=12&stId=8142766

http://phoenix.fanster.com/2009/02/10/amare-on-his-way-to-detroit/

Draco
02-10-2009, 07:00 PM
If you honestly feel that Beasley will be as good of a defensive player by next year, more power to you. But, I don't see how it's possibly when Tyrus has better size, athleticism, and instincts.

And Beasley has no power in his game.. he's a finesse player.

Red222
02-10-2009, 07:11 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1711~1981~3030~3032~2166~1727&teams=21~21~21~21~4~4&te=&cash=

+ 2 1st (2009,2011)

Mr Wonderful
02-10-2009, 07:14 PM
The only thing that paxson has ever done right was drafting rose and that was a no brainer, but if the bulls are smart they would fire pax before he trades Rose. Just like he did with brand,chandler ect.....

:laugh2: It was Krause that traded Brand. :shush:

HiphopRelated
02-10-2009, 07:59 PM
Tyrus Thomas if used correctly could be a great if not franchise player same thing with Beasley and also Tyrus is only like 23,which means he still has what 13 years left??,that's why the Bulls where so hesitant to trade him for Gasol and even now for Amare.
Tyrus CAN never dream of approaching the talent Beasley has...the hell??

If Miami really wants the deal, they could look @ sending Marion to Portland and LaFrentz to Phoenix and pick up a couple other pieces from Portland.

lol @ believing ANY GM..even Kerr values Tyrus Thomas anywhere near as much as Beasley. The PROBLEM is Marion if Miami really offered that.

HiphopRelated
02-10-2009, 08:03 PM
There's just no way Kerr can accept Marion back after how he was traded.

markie8002000
02-10-2009, 08:05 PM
http://paspn.net/default.asp?p=12&stId=8142766

http://phoenix.fanster.com/2009/02/10/amare-on-his-way-to-detroit/



These are sites from what some people are reporting about Amare going to the Pistons.

MegaFauna
02-10-2009, 08:16 PM
I could go either way on the Bulls getting Amare. I'm not completely sold on him, he's on a team with two MVP's and other solid players like J-Rich, Hill, Barbosa, and what is this team doing? Struggling for a playoff birth? How do I know that Amare and his soft defense is going to make the Bulls any better of a team?

haze442200
02-10-2009, 08:19 PM
The only thing that paxson has ever done right was drafting rose and that was a no brainer, but if the bulls are smart they would fire pax before he trades Rose. Just like he did with brand,chandler ect.....

Jerry Krause traded Elton Brand, not John Paxson.

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 08:20 PM
I corrected myself smarty:rolleyes:Read the hole thread before comment:shush::moon:




:laugh2: It was Krause that traded Brand. :shush:

kntresistheheat
02-10-2009, 08:22 PM
Same goes to you:rolleyes: Read people, I did a mistake and I corrected myself.....Its funny you guys come in here trying to act like you know everything and try to correct people without reading the thread.




Jerry Krause traded Elton Brand, not John Paxson.

MJ-BULLS
02-10-2009, 08:23 PM
These are sites from what some people are reporting about Amare going to the Pistons.

makes no sense him going to detroit

ink
02-10-2009, 08:25 PM
makes no sense him going to detroit

Makes a ton of sense when you consider that Porter was coaching there just last season and knows the players well. Porter would know the players coming back to the Suns in any deal.

D_Rose1118
02-10-2009, 08:26 PM
Makes a ton of sense when you consider that Porter was coaching there just last season and knows the players well.

well VDN was with the suns last year so amare should be pretty well known here in the chi

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 08:28 PM
man who the heck wants Amir Johnson? and Rasheed Wallace I heard the Pistons chances of getting him are like 5% if the Bulls and every other team drops out and even then,the Suns would not trade him,the Piston rumors are totally over done!

D_Rose1118
02-10-2009, 08:30 PM
man who the heck wants Amir Johnson? and Rasheed Wallace I heard the Pistons chances of getting him are like 5% if the Bulls and every other team drops out and even then,the Suns would not trade him,the Piston rumors are totally over done!


where did you here that?


i hope you are right

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 08:30 PM
From very many people I know sources,don't belive me,but how do you think I know all this about this scouting stuff,inside information!

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 08:31 PM
Tyrus CAN never dream of approaching the talent Beasley has...the hell??

If Miami really wants the deal, they could look @ sending Marion to Portland and LaFrentz to Phoenix and pick up a couple other pieces from Portland.

lol @ believing ANY GM..even Kerr values Tyrus Thomas anywhere near as much as Beasley. The PROBLEM is Marion if Miami really offered that.
Why would phoenix want raef lafrentz? and tyrus is a much better defensive player, the last I checked the suns wanted defense

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 08:32 PM
I just can't name the sources becuase it against like a unwritten rule.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 08:36 PM
Why would phoenix want raef lafrentz? and tyrus is a much better defensive player, the last I checked the suns wanted defense

Yes Portland does want to trade Raef LaFrentz but,the snag in that is the Suns want LaMarcus Aldridge and Bayless also which the Trailblazer won't do.

D_Rose1118
02-10-2009, 08:37 PM
portlands deal really scares me

Red222
02-10-2009, 08:38 PM
Is Chicago in the lead aaron?

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 08:38 PM
portlands deal really scares me
I don't see it happening

D_Rose1118
02-10-2009, 08:39 PM
me neither but if portland gives in we have no shot at STAT

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 08:45 PM
Is Chicago in the lead aaron?

Pretty Much,for now...its that the fact if portland does do that and trade Bayless ,LaMarcus and Lafrentz,they would be in the lead,but for now the Bulls are its pretty much up to Paxson and Vinny to agree that its best and by after the all-star break the Bulls should have him.But thats if John pulls the trigger contingent on if they agree its best for the team.

Lakers4ItAll
02-10-2009, 08:49 PM
Because of his contract coming off the books


Why would phoenix want raef lafrentz? and tyrus is a much better defensive player, the last I checked the suns wanted defense

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 08:55 PM
Because of his contract coming off the books

Exactly,he's the one of the highest contract at $12 Mil that will be a free agent other than Marbury at $20 Mil,and he has value.

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Pretty Much,for now...its that the fact if portland does do that and trade Bayless ,LaMarcus and Lafrentz,they would be in the lead,but for now the Bulls are its pretty much up to Paxson and Vinny to agree that its best and by after the all-star break the Bulls should have him.But thats if John pulls the trigger contingent on if they agree its best for the team.

It wont happen. Marion is a bigger expiring. Miami will get him, I don't see them taking the bulls deal

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 09:01 PM
It wont happen. Marion is a bigger expiring. Miami will get him, I don't see them taking the bulls deal

You don't see it,We'll the suns are supposedly done talking with the Heat because the Heat and Pat Riley want an answer now.

harm0n1x
02-10-2009, 09:05 PM
Damn.. as much as I was against the Cavs making a move, I still expected one. Even the hype of another big name player makes you think. Oh well, :)

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 09:06 PM
Suns don't want Marion

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Suns don't want Marion

That too because I mean,trade a player one year and get him back the next? the Suns don't want him and seeming no one else does either.

GarlicStench
02-10-2009, 09:15 PM
The warriors are offering the best talent. Sephalosha? WTF? Come on they can do better than that.

b_rad23
02-10-2009, 09:23 PM
The issue was accomodating both Amare and Marion, not whether they liked Marion. As you can see, a swap of those two would keep that issue dead and buried.

It definitely wasn't a big enough issue to be a dealbreaker as the expiring contract would take president over the actual player and still give them a pretty damn good one for this year.

Nikeman
02-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Suns are dumb...

Beasley is a future superstar, I am glad they rejected it.

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 09:30 PM
Why would the suns want Marion? They can get a younger, cheaper version in tyrus,plus gooden and a draft pick. Plus they just traded him

Nikeman
02-10-2009, 09:34 PM
Why would the suns want Marion? They can get a younger, cheaper version in tyrus,plus gooden and a draft pick. Plus they just traded him

17 mill expiring contract??

When playing with Nash is when he excelled?

Beasley>Tyrus

Marion>Gooden

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 09:35 PM
The warriors are offering the best talent. Sephalosha? WTF? Come on they can do better than that.

Yeah you may see it that way but,the Bulls and Heat are offering the best,also the one player the suns may want from the Warriors,Andris Biedrins is injured and that's about all they would be willing to offer,you could say Randolph,but people are saying that they want to keep him.

aaron0l
02-10-2009, 09:37 PM
17 mill expiring contract??

When playing with Nash is when he excelled?

Beasley>Tyrus

Marion>Gooden

I remind you..They Prefer Thomas on all levels and besides Marion could be making 100 mil and they pretty much still wouldn't want him.

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 09:40 PM
The warriors are offering the best talent. Sephalosha? WTF? Come on they can do better than that. suns wouldn't trade within division

chicagocubsfan
02-10-2009, 09:46 PM
17 mill expiring contract??

When playing with Nash is when he excelled?

Beasley>Tyrus

Marion>Gooden beasley off> tyrus tyrus d>beasly suns want D next to shaq

Nikeman
02-10-2009, 09:49 PM
beasley off> tyrus tyrus d>beasly suns want D next to shaq

Beasley is three years younger than Tyrus I believe, don't quote me, and has much more potential to be a superstar

shortlunatic
02-10-2009, 10:55 PM
The warriors are offering the best talent. Sephalosha? WTF? Come on they can do better than that.

The Warriors are already out because they only have talent with big contarcts to offer...thats what I heard


Beasley is three years younger than Tyrus I believe, don't quote me, and has much more potential to be a superstar

Agreed Beasly will most likely be better than Thomas, but they dont want Marion, and if they did this trade it would have involved a couple other players making it more complicated. The bulls would be simple with sefolosha, thomas, gooden, simmons, picks for Amare

Gibby23
02-10-2009, 11:28 PM
Miami can S & T Zo if the Suns don't want Marion. The suns can just Buy him out after the deal. Pat is a smart GM.

theimortalone
02-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Miami can S & T Zo if the Suns don't want Marion. The suns can just Buy him out after the deal. Pat is a smart GM.

:confused: WTF?

Cubs Man 5
02-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Tyrus Thomas is playing out of his mind right now, and his value is sky high. Noah is also playing very well..

We've missed out on Garnett in 06, Kobe 07, and Gasol last year.. If Paxson doesn't get this done...

Mr. Pistols
02-11-2009, 05:04 PM
Chi-town should just keep there youngins!

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:08 PM
Amare is undersized for his position.

He also refuses to play any other position besides PF.

He is an ego maniac.

I just don't see this guy as being very good.

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:11 PM
I were a Bulls fan I would want TT instead of Amare.

I suppose Amare has better stats, but TT is younger.

Hoopsadvocate
02-11-2009, 05:12 PM
Amare is undersized for his position.

He also refuses to play any other position besides PF.

He is an ego maniac.

I just don't see this guy as being very good.

How is 6-10 undersized for a pf???

And didn't he play C for them before shaq and hes still listed as a pf-c so yeah.......

ATX
02-11-2009, 05:14 PM
Chi-town should just keep there youngins!

Chicago would be idiots not to take the supposed Phx deal. I'll give you that Tyrus has been playing exceptional as of late, but that squad as constucted ain't winning any titles.

xxdc2tegxx
02-11-2009, 05:19 PM
Amare is undersized for his position.

He also refuses to play any other position besides PF.

He is an ego maniac.

I just don't see this guy as being very good.

and what relevance does this have at all????

he's still a top 4 PF in the league and would compliment perfectly with rose....

ATX
02-11-2009, 05:21 PM
and what relevance does this have at all????

he's still a top 4 PF in the league and would compliment perfectly with rose....

I agree

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:30 PM
and what relevance does this have at all????

he's still a top 4 PF in the league and would compliment perfectly with rose....

It seems like TT is just starting to 'get it'.

Isn't TT a nice compliment to Rose already?

cubsbears1225
02-11-2009, 05:31 PM
i think Tyrus is for real now! Why trade him now????

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:32 PM
How is 6-10 undersized for a pf???

And didn't he play C for them before shaq and hes still listed as a pf-c so yeah.......

Well he looks undersized whenever he goes up against Gasol or Bynum.

1 thing is for sure, the Lakers don't need that guy.

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:33 PM
We will take TT off your hands though :)

Hoopsadvocate
02-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Well he looks undersized whenever he goes up against Gasol or Bynum.

1 thing is for sure, the Lakers don't need that guy.

Ohhhhhh im sorry i thought i read undersized at his position not undersized as a Lakers opponent at the position my B ....

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:41 PM
I have nailed Amare for lieing about his height.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Amare-Stoudemire-Shawn-Marion-Photograph-C10208578.jpeg

Shawn Marion is listed at 6-7 and they are the same height in that picture.

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:43 PM
http://www.bs-leiden.nl/ImagesUpload/StoudemireAndShaq.jpg

Shaq is a good 5 inches taller than Amare

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:44 PM
Amare would be a good SF but he refuses to play there and lies about his height.

Kakaroach
02-11-2009, 05:52 PM
There is no way that Tyrus Thomas is better than Amare. I would say that the Bulls will try to get Amare, but Portland will get him because they have everything the Suns want. Expiring contract: Raef Lafrentz. Young Players: LaMarcus Aldridge and Jerryd Bayless. They might throw in a draft pick too.

king4day
02-11-2009, 05:56 PM
I have nailed Amare for lieing about his height.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Amare-Stoudemire-Shawn-Marion-Photograph-C10208578.jpeg

Shawn Marion is listed at 6-7 and they are the same height in that picture.


http://www.bs-leiden.nl/ImagesUpload/StoudemireAndShaq.jpg

Shaq is a good 5 inches taller than Amare

What are those images supposed to prove? They aren't standing right next to each other, nor do we know if their knees are bent.

Living Legend
02-11-2009, 05:56 PM
There is no way that Tyrus Thomas is better than Amare. I would say that the Bulls will try to get Amare, but Portland will get him because they have everything the Suns want. Expiring contract: Raef Lafrentz. Young Players: LaMarcus Aldridge and Jerryd Bayless. They might throw in a draft pick too.

If the Suns get LaMarcus Aldrige for Amare then I will poop my pants.

LaMarcus is a much better player.

Kakaroach
02-11-2009, 06:00 PM
If the Suns get LaMarcus Aldrige for Amare then I will poop my pants.

LaMarcus is a much better player. Lmao if you think Aldridge is better than Amare, you must be insane. Aldridge is inconsistent and is not a superstar in the NBA nor will he ever be.

Ni55anpat
02-11-2009, 06:17 PM
wow - people dont know ****!

shortlunatic
02-11-2009, 07:20 PM
It seems like TT is just starting to 'get it'.

Isn't TT a nice compliment to Rose already?

He is but hes not the low post player we need. I wanna keep him, but if we have to give him up for amre then it has to be done. We need a good finisher inside for rose and amare is most likely it

IversonIsKrazy
02-11-2009, 11:56 PM
OMG! Matrix, Beasley & A FIRST ROUND PICK. amazed. and they turn it down. GOOD JOB STEVE KERR, UR REALLY THE BEST GM!

well, the most evened trade would be Bosh for Amare. thas not going to happen. I dont understand why phoenix would want to accept the bulls trade, u got the inconsistency of TT, no name Selfosha, and average GOoden. I would say the most attractive trade for phoenix besides the HEAT which they turned down kuz their f*cked, would be the pistons. Sheed + Amir for Amare would be pretty good. Sheed would help out suns defence SOO much, w/o doubt IMO, Pistons are the front-runners. If the pistons add a 1st round pick, or offer Sheed + Amir on the day of the dealine, Amare is going to be a piston.

PG: Stuckey/Bynum
SG: AI/Rip
SF: Tay/Afflalo
PF: Amare/Dyess
C: Kwame/Max

The General
02-12-2009, 12:08 AM
OMG! Matrix, Beasley & A FIRST ROUND PICK. amazed. and they turn it down. GOOD JOB STEVE KERR, UR REALLY THE BEST GM!

well, the most evened trade would be Bosh for Amare. thas not going to happen. I dont understand why phoenix would want to accept the bulls trade, u got the inconsistency of TT, no name Selfosha, and average GOoden. I would say the most attractive trade for phoenix besides the HEAT which they turned down kuz their f*cked, would be the pistons. Sheed + Amir for Amare would be pretty good. Sheed would help out suns defence SOO much, w/o doubt IMO, Pistons are the front-runners. If the pistons add a 1st round pick, or offer Sheed + Amir on the day of the dealine, Amare is going to be a piston.

PG: Stuckey/Bynum
SG: AI/Rip
SF: Tay/Afflalo
PF: Amare/Dyess
C: Kwame/Max

your not really comparing amir johnson to TT are you?

zambo4president
02-12-2009, 12:10 AM
Come on Pax your blind if you think we dont need him!

zambo4president
02-12-2009, 12:12 AM
OMG! Matrix, Beasley & A FIRST ROUND PICK. amazed. and they turn it down. GOOD JOB STEVE KERR, UR REALLY THE BEST GM!

well, the most evened trade would be Bosh for Amare. thas not going to happen. I dont understand why phoenix would want to accept the bulls trade, u got the inconsistency of TT, no name Selfosha, and average GOoden. I would say the most attractive trade for phoenix besides the HEAT which they turned down kuz their f*cked, would be the pistons. Sheed + Amir for Amare would be pretty good. Sheed would help out suns defence SOO much, w/o doubt IMO, Pistons are the front-runners. If the pistons add a 1st round pick, or offer Sheed + Amir on the day of the dealine, Amare is going to be a piston.

PG: Stuckey/Bynum
SG: AI/Rip
SF: Tay/Afflalo
PF: Amare/Dyess
C: Kwame/Max

Well for one Sheed is retiring after this season and two Amir Johnson is about average at best in this league TT was a lottery pick for a reason.

shortlunatic
02-12-2009, 12:13 AM
OMG! Matrix, Beasley & A FIRST ROUND PICK. amazed. and they turn it down. GOOD JOB STEVE KERR, UR REALLY THE BEST GM!

well, the most evened trade would be Bosh for Amare. thas not going to happen. I dont understand why phoenix would want to accept the bulls trade, u got the inconsistency of TT, no name Selfosha, and average GOoden. I would say the most attractive trade for phoenix besides the HEAT which they turned down kuz their f*cked, would be the pistons. Sheed + Amir for Amare would be pretty good. Sheed would help out suns defence SOO much, w/o doubt IMO, Pistons are the front-runners. If the pistons add a 1st round pick, or offer Sheed + Amir on the day of the dealine, Amare is going to be a piston.

PG: Stuckey/Bynum
SG: AI/Rip
SF: Tay/Afflalo
PF: Amare/Dyess
C: Kwame/Max



TT's only 22, he has plenty of time to be consistent, as yesterday he pulled down his 7th double double in the past 8 games. You also a havent heard that Kerr finds Thomas more interesting than Beasley, regardless if he is or nt, Kerr believes so. The Bulls were like 3-11 without Gooden one third of the way thru the season, regardless he has a good expiring contract. You have probably never seen Sefolosha play a single game. You dont sound like you are in any position to be saying what will or wont happen

theimortalone
02-12-2009, 12:13 AM
Lmao if you think Aldridge is better than Amare, you must be insane. Aldridge is inconsistent and is not a superstar in the NBA nor will he ever be.

Sure he will! Once Steve feeds him the ball like crazy! :D

GSW fan
02-12-2009, 12:20 AM
y would the suns want marion back? cmon now

Sox Appeal
02-12-2009, 12:21 AM
Well for one Sheed is retiring after this season and two Amir Johnson is about average at best in this league TT was a lottery pick for a reason.

I think you're wrong about that..

As for the Amare trade, I personally believe it will come down to either the Pistons or Bulls making the deal for him. Both teams have several young players to offer, and the always attractive expiring contract. In the end though, I see him ending up in Chicago. John Paxson has failed to the pull the trigger on a countless number of potential trades (Gasol, KG, Kobe, I mean you can't trade Luol Deng for Kobe Bryant..) and I think Paxson realizes that he HAS to make some type of shake-up to the Bulls roster, and adding Amare would do that in a big way.

Theanswer76
02-12-2009, 12:26 AM
Whens the trade deadline?

Sox Appeal
02-12-2009, 12:27 AM
Whens the trade deadline?

February 19th.

shortlunatic
02-12-2009, 12:28 AM
I think you're wrong about that..

As for the Amare trade, I personally believe it will come down to either the Pistons or Bulls making the deal for him. Both teams have several young players to offer, and the always attractive expiring contract. In the end though, I see him ending up in Chicago. John Paxson has failed to the pull the trigger on a countless number of potential trades (Gasol, KG, Kobe, I mean you can't trade Luol Deng for Kobe Bryant..) and I think Paxson realizes that he HAS to make some type of shake-up to the Bulls roster, and adding Amare would do that in a big way.


I completely agree. I have said all along that the Bulls biggest threat would be the Pistons, but Tryus is really coming throu with all these double doubles hes been getting. And now after his 7th in his last 8, I'm pretty sure its enought convince Kerr he is gonna get exactly what he is looking for in Thomas, more than he would get outta Amir Johnson or Rasheed. N i dont think the Kobe trade was as close to being made as most ppl think

Theanswer76
02-12-2009, 12:29 AM
February 19th.

Thanks, hopefully Detroit can land this trade! Joey D!

shortlunatic
02-12-2009, 12:35 AM
Thanks, hopefully Detroit can land this trade! Joey D!

hopefully they cant lol