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View Full Version : Where does calzaghe rank among the greats



ULT WARRIOR408
02-05-2009, 08:12 PM
Joe calzaghe just retired he leaves the sport of boxing with a few super middleweight titles & a light heavyweight title plus his record is 46-0 now i must admit im not a big fan of the guy but he's up there as one of the greatest ever pound for pound in my book. What due ya'll think?

2009mvp
02-06-2009, 01:03 AM
(I love these kinds of arguments!!)


Q: Where does Calzaghe rank among the greats?
A: He doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that he's retiring undefeated. He beat everyone they put in front of him, there's no taking that away from him. Problem is, he's never had that career defining fight. He's never fought a big-time fighter in the prime of their career. His biggest fights? An undefeated yet unproven Jeff Lacy. He beat a solid fighter in Kessler, but hardly that career-defining fight. Then comes the biggest names on his resume, Jones and Hopkins. He fought a 39 year old Roy Jones last year, who for the most part was done. Not impressed. The biggest fight of his career was against a 43 year old Bernard Hopkins where he fought to a disputed split-decision win. Solid win, but again, B-Hop was far from his prime and it could be argued he won that fight on points. Yes, Calzaghe goes down as one of the greatest British fighters ever, but he's not amongst the greatest ever.

Think about it, where does Calzaghe rank among the best of his generation? In my opinion, I'd put these guys ahead of Joe:
-Mayweather
-Hopkins
-Pacquiao
-Jones Jr.
-Lewis
-Holyfield
-De La Hoya
-Mosley

It's objective, of course, but these guys have beaten great fighters in their primes. Heck, if you go by that criteria alone you could include guys like Winky Wright and Felix Trinidad. They've had the career defining fight that Calzaghe never had. Again, don't get me wrong, 46-0 with a 70% KO rate is nothing to sneeze at. It's a hell of an accomplishment, but the fact remains that he never fought the best at their best. Hypothetically:
-a prime RJ Jr. fighting at light-heavyweight KO's Calzaghe easily
-a prime Hopkins KO's him or takes an easy decision
-a prime Mosley handles Calzaghe easily

He takes and wins just one of those fights and you start to look at his career in a totally different light.

I actually read an article yesterday comparing Calzaghe to another retired undefeated champion, Rocky Marciano. (I don't claim the following ideas as my own. I'm paraphrasing since I can't seem to find the original article) Marciano was a great champion, yes, but when people say he's the greatest of all time it's an insult to the Ray Robinsons, the Ali's and the Louis' of the world. The biggest names on his resume were Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore. Louis was 37 in that fight, had fought 71 pro fights before that, and not the same fighter since he lost the fight to Charles. Archie Moore fought something crazy like his 150th+ fight against Marciano, and Charles too was well on his way to his 100th fight when he fought Rocky. All great fighters, but all well outside their primes. Compare him to guys like Ali who fought in probably the greatest era for heavyweights ever and Marciano's resume just doesn't stack up. Same goes for Calzaghe. Fought two great fighters, both of whom were at the tail-end of their careers. Great fighter, but the resume just doesn't stack up when you're talking about the greatest fighters ever.

ULT WARRIOR408
02-06-2009, 01:20 AM
You make good point but you cant b-hop or jones ahead of him even though he fought them out of there prime he still beat them.

2009mvp
02-06-2009, 01:31 AM
^^That's ridiculous. You're telling me that Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick are ranked ahead of Muhammad Ali cause they beat him at the tail end of his career? Or that Bender (I don't even remember his first-name anymore) and Joey Archer are ahead of Sugar Ray on that list cause they did the same at the end of his career? I could go for days. Will Joppy over Roberto Duran? Larry Donald over Evander Holyfield? Camacho over Ray Leonard? C'mon. Roy Jones Jr. and Bernard Hopkins are two of the top 50 fighters to ever step into a ring. Calzaghe isn't even in that conversation.

ULT WARRIOR408
02-06-2009, 01:39 AM
This is different and my point is that calzaghe is one of the greats because he has 3 suppermiddlewieght tittles & one lightheavywieght tittle no one has ever done that you clown

2009mvp
02-06-2009, 01:53 AM
That's all well and good, but what significance exactly do titles have in the landscape of boxing today when;
A) He's beaten no one notable for those titles, and
B) Guys regularly drop titles in favor of skipping their mandatories and opting for a bigger payday?

And your point (as stated pretty explicitly) was that Calzaghe should be ranked over B-Hop/RJ Jr. We know all about the belts RJ Jr's racked up. IMO definitely the most impressive set of titles in the scope of a career than anyone ever. Definitely more significant than the set of belts Calzaghe accumulated. So even if that is a valid basis for argument, (and it isn't) you're still wrong about ranking him ahead of Jones.

HOZ THE KNICK
02-06-2009, 11:05 AM
he's top 30 of all time didn't fight too many americans until the end of his career though.

2009mvp
02-06-2009, 01:55 PM
^^Pound for pound greatest fighters ever? There's not a chance he's top 50. Heck, you could make an argument that's he's barely in the top 30 fighters of the past 30 years alone.

cambovenzi
02-06-2009, 04:38 PM
great, great stuff 2009mvp.
sums up my thoughts perfectly, and some.

beating some fighters who used to be great, who are way out of their prime, does not make you an alltime great yourself.
infact those wins mean very little, if anything at all.

his biggest win is a controversial split decision win over a 43 year old fighter. that tells you something right there.

ULT WARRIOR408
02-06-2009, 04:46 PM
Man you guys are straight haters & i never said he was the greatest i said he's one of the greats. Top 50 or top 30 he's atleast in the top 15 or 20

cambovenzi
02-06-2009, 05:22 PM
Man you guys are straight haters & i never said he was the greatest i said he's one of the greats. Top 50 or top 30 he's atleast in the top 15 or 20

feel free to enlighten us on your top 15 or 20.

2009mvp
02-07-2009, 01:47 PM
Off the top of my head, he's probably somewhere in the 70-90 range, most likely somewhere in the middle of that. I know that's a pretty big range, but you still get the point that I'd have at least 69 guys higher than him on a p4p list.

QuietWyatt
02-08-2009, 11:21 PM
Boxing is so crooked with judging fights it's not even funny, so I'd take his record w/ a grain of salt.

But he's nowhere near the greats.

Padres Son
02-09-2009, 02:55 PM
I agree with the general sentiment here that he's a great fighter who had a great career. But you really can't compare him with some of the greatest of all time. MAYBE he could have beat Jones Jr., Mosley, or Hopkins in their prime, but we'll never know because he didn't fight any of them in their prime.

Rocco007
02-14-2009, 12:30 AM
He emerged as some of the others were on the downside of their careers..Although he is very talented..I couldn't compare him to Roy at his peak..Obviuosly retiring undefeated elevates him towards the top somewhere..But his big fights were more recent than earlier..So his career was great but not legendary..You need those moments..Roy and Bhop had some legendary moments..I don't feel that for Calzaghe..

I believe he fights again anyway...He aint done. So things can change towards one way or another..