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baseballislife7
02-03-2009, 11:34 AM
White Sox Make Offer To Bobby Abreu
By Tim Dierkes [February 3 at 9:25am CST]
According to Roger Rubin of the New York Daily News, the White Sox offered a one-year, $8MM deal to free agent outfielder Bobby Abreu. If the Sox are able to sign Abreu, you'd have to think Jermaine Dye or Jim Thome would be traded.

Abreu has also been linked recently to the Braves, Mariners, Dodgers, and Giants

One would think Atlanta would be in on this. We now know it will take at least 8 million to sign Abreu.

baseballislife7
02-03-2009, 12:04 PM
I see the Chi Sox are getting antsy about this whole Abreu deal. They think a trade is already in place for Dye.

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 12:11 PM
Im still sold that Swisher is the best option. Swisher's glove far out weights Dyes and if Swisher has a bounce back year his bat would be right on par with Dye's. Swisher is cheaper and i would think that Swisher would be a bit cheaper then Dye in terms of prospects.

baseballislife7
02-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Dye fits the fold though, just a thought. Not much has been going on this website so I tried to get everyone stirring. Dye would be a good fit though between Chipper and B-Mac. He is right handed, but I guess I didn't think of money. His contract is probably way to high for us. You never know though in this game.

rtgthree
02-03-2009, 12:18 PM
From the recent commentary we've been hearing about how much money the Braves have left, I'd have a hard time believing that the Braves have the wherewithal to take on Dye's $11.5 million salary. Not to mention we'd have to give up talent to sign Dye, when we could just sign, say, Adam Dunn, for half that price and get more production (Dye is almost as bad with the leather as Dunn).

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 12:25 PM
From the recent commentary we've been hearing about how much money the Braves have left, I'd have a hard time believing that the Braves have the wherewithal to take on Dye's $11.5 million salary. Not to mention we'd have to give up talent to sign Dye, when we could just sign, say, Adam Dunn, for half that price and get more production (Dye is almost as bad with the leather as Dunn).

not sure his price tag is at $5-6 Mill though. There is an offer on the table for Dunn from the Nationals and being that the Nationals are pretty desperate for FAs to go play there i bet their offer is 1. multi year and 2. more then $6 Mill/per. If anything indications are that Dunn doesnt want to play there unless he doesnt get any activity from other places.

BravoFan3736
02-03-2009, 01:15 PM
not sure his price tag is at $5-6 Mill though. There is an offer on the table for Dunn from the Nationals and being that the Nationals are pretty desperate for FAs to go play there i bet their offer is 1. multi year and 2. more then $6 Mill/per. If anything indications are that Dunn doesnt want to play there unless he doesnt get any activity from other places.

Dunn has this offer from the Nats for awhile and isn't likely to sign anywhere till Manram signs....Saying that, if Manram signs with the dodgers and braves have 1/8 to Dunn it will be than likely he would rather play with atlanta for one year and go back on the FA market in 10' than play for the Nationals on a multi year deal...

Born a Brave
02-03-2009, 02:10 PM
I really like Dye. Especially since we only need a one or two year stop gap until Heyward is ready. But we simply cannot afford him since the most we have left is 8 or 9 million. Since the bargain bidding for Abreu has begun at 8 million, I also doubt we will have the funds to compete for his services. Maybe Dunn will have to settle for less than Abreu. Who knows....

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 02:21 PM
I really like Dye. Especially since we only need a one or two year stop gap until Heyward is ready. But we simply cannot afford him since the most we have left is 8 or 9 million. Since the bargain bidding for Abreu has begun at 8 million, I also doubt we will have the funds to compete for his services. Maybe Dunn will have to settle for less than Abreu. Who knows....

My guess is that any team going after Abreu is doing so because Dunn is out of their price range. I could be wrong but it seems logical to me.


Dunn has this offer from the Nats for awhile and isn't likely to sign anywhere till Manram signs....Saying that, if Manram signs with the dodgers and braves have 1/8 to Dunn it will be than likely he would rather play with atlanta for one year and go back on the FA market in 10' than play for the Nationals on a multi year deal...

$8 Mill is a whole lot different then $5.5 Mill. I guess its a matter of opinion but we dont know anything about the Nats offer. Just because he doesnt want to play there doesnt mean he wont take the offer. Players go where the money is if they cannot get something done with their ideal team.

bravesatl
02-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Im still sold that Swisher is the best option. Swisher's glove far out weights Dyes and if Swisher has a bounce back year his bat would be right on par with Dye's. Swisher is cheaper and i would think that Swisher would be a bit cheaper then Dye in terms of prospects.

agreed, well said...

BravoFan3736
02-03-2009, 03:37 PM
Im still sold that Swisher is the best option. Swisher's glove far out weights Dyes and if Swisher has a bounce back year his bat would be right on par with Dye's. Swisher is cheaper and i would think that Swisher would be a bit cheaper then Dye in terms of prospects.

How you come to the conclusion that Swisher is cheaper in terms in prospects? Swisher is younger,undercontract for 3 years at a decent rate and we have a greater need for an OFer/PowerBat than the Yankkes need to trade him...

With Dye he is older with a 11.5 Mil expensive price tag and basically 1 year till FA (Assuming that the Braves would do the Buyout on the Mutual option in 11' at 1mil). KW did this with Swisher as in a salary dump trade with anything significant in return? No Not really, Yanks made out like bandits! Now if the WS ate 3Mil than I could see a higher price on prospects in return but not by much. This really depends on who you are dealing with involving trades and prospects. On one hand you have cashman, though reportedly that he has soften his tone on prospects for swisher, but you still figure that we have to send at least IMHO a (Gorkys/Locke + Lower Prospects) get that deal done.Plus Yanks are in need of position players OF/IF and not the back rotation SP which they have alot of in there upper farm system. This is the reason why I don't see a match unless we cough up Gorkys/Locke which we shouldn't for Swisher. Now with KW on the other hand, he is more willing to take a package like a Prado+Soriano (6M)+Blanco/Anderson(4thOFer/CF) + JoJo/Morton for Dye. With most of thoughs guys being blocked by position (Prado/JoJo/Morton), 1 year till FA (Soriano), and a 4th OFer/CFer(Blanco/Anderson(Out of Options).So basically we would have Dye for 5.5 Mil 09' + Mutual Option of 12 Mil with 1 Mil Buyout in '11. IF the braves can make the money work out I still like Dye over a 3 years of a Swisher though it will always depends on what we have to give up in order to trade for them.


We should have stolen Swisher as an add on with Vasquez deal but who could predict the future economy and FA market in November....

We will see...

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 03:57 PM
How you come to the conclusion that Swisher is cheaper in terms in prospects? Swisher is younger,undercontract for 3 years at a decent rate and we have a greater need for an OFer/PowerBat than the Yankkes need to trade him...

With Dye he is older with a 11.5 Mil expensive price tag and basically 1 year till FA (Assuming that the Braves would do the Buyout on the Mutual option in 11' at 1mil). KW did this with Swisher as in a salary dump trade with anything significant in return? No Not really, Yanks made out like bandits! Now if the WS ate 3Mil than I could see a higher price on prospects in return but not by much. This really depends on who you are dealing with involving trades and prospects. On one hand you have cashman, though reportedly that he has soften his tone on prospects for swisher, but you still figure that we have to send at least IMHO a (Gorkys/Locke + Lower Prospects) get that deal done.Plus Yanks are in need of position players OF/IF and not the back rotation SP which they have alot of in there upper farm system. This is the reason why I don't see a match unless we cough up Gorkys/Locke which we shouldn't for Swisher. Now with KW on the other hand, he is more willing to take a package like a Prado+Soriano (6M)+Blanco/Anderson(4thOFer/CF) + JoJo/Morton for Dye. With most of thoughs guys being blocked by position (Prado/JoJo/Morton), 1 year till FA (Soriano), and a 4th OFer/CFer(Blanco/Anderson(Out of Options).So basically we would have Dye for 5.5 Mil 09' + Mutual Option of 12 Mil with 1 Mil Buyout in '11. IF the braves can make the money work out I still like Dye over a 3 years of a Swisher though it will always depends on what we have to give up in order to trade for them.


We should have stolen Swisher as an add on with Vasquez deal but who could predict the future economy and FA market in November....

We will see...

So you state that KW tried to dump salary in Swisher....so why would he turn around and trade for an injury prone Soriano who is making more then Swisher this season???

Im basing the prospect demand based on Swisher's last season and what the Yanks paid to get for him. Until i see rumors going around on what experts think will get him then i might change my mind.

I believe Swisher was traded before the Vasquez deal.

All in all, i believe that Swisher is a better fit all around for the Braves both long term and short term. If Swisher has a great year and Heyward is ready in 2010. Then we could evaluate Frenchy and see how hes doing and if anything we trade Swisher or Frenchy.

BravoFan3736
02-03-2009, 04:12 PM
So you state that KW tried to dump salary in Swisher....so why would he turn around and trade for an injury prone Soriano who is making more then Swisher this season???

Im basing the prospect demand based on Swisher's last season and what the Yanks paid to get for him. Until i see rumors going around on what experts think will get him then i might change my mind.

I believe Swisher was traded before the Vasquez deal.

All in all, i believe that Swisher is a better fit all around for the Braves both long term and short term. If Swisher has a great year and Heyward is ready in 2010. Then we could evaluate Frenchy and see how hes doing and if anything we trade Swisher or Frenchy.

Good Point ... I don't think Soriano has any value of much at this point...Anyways http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=269179 Daily Southtown is reporting the Abreu deal as dead....

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 04:49 PM
Not only that but if the Braves were to go after Dye, why wouldnt they just sign Abreu (probably $3 Mill less aswell) and save themselves the prospects and being tied up with Dye's contract for another year...

DewsSox79
02-03-2009, 04:50 PM
Im still sold that Swisher is the best option. Swisher's glove far out weights Dyes and if Swisher has a bounce back year his bat would be right on par with Dye's. Swisher is cheaper and i would think that Swisher would be a bit cheaper then Dye in terms of prospects.

swishers bat no where near dyes

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 04:56 PM
swishers bat no where near dyes

but Swisher's bat helps make up for most of Dye's advantage on the offensive side...

ugafan
02-03-2009, 05:11 PM
swishers bat no where near dyes

Swisher is currently in New York, and Dye in Chicago, that's a good distance.

tomno00
02-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Not only that but if the Braves were to go after Dye, why wouldnt they just sign Abreu (probably $3 Mill less aswell) and save themselves the prospects and being tied up with Dye's contract for another year...

b/c dye >>>>>> abreu

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 05:42 PM
b/c dye >>>>>> abreu

I wouldnt be to sure about that. I would give Dye the upper hand as well but when you factor prospects that the Braves would have to give up and the difference in Salary (about $3.5 Mill) i would have to say Abreu is the better choice.

Abreu is a better run producer then Dye. Abreu walks more Sure Dye has him on the power department but look at his Home and Away splits from last season.

2008 Home/Away Splits
Home .336/.388/.608/.996 OPS
Away .250/.303/.477/.780 OPS

Despite his age Abreu's on base abilities would work nicely in the #4 spot. Plus Abreu provides a team with 20+ SB on average a year. About the main reason that i would rather have Dye is bc he is a RHB but not at the extra $3 Mill plus the pieces to move him to ATL.

Just on a side note my #1 option is Swisher but between Dye and Abreu i would rather get Abreu bc of the other factors that arise.

rtgthree
02-03-2009, 05:48 PM
not sure his price tag is at $5-6 Mill though. There is an offer on the table for Dunn from the Nationals and being that the Nationals are pretty desperate for FAs to go play there i bet their offer is 1. multi year and 2. more then $6 Mill/per. If anything indications are that Dunn doesnt want to play there unless he doesnt get any activity from other places.

OK, you're nitpicking over a point that really doesn't matter. Even if we were going to pay 90% of Dye's money to Dunn (even over a multi-year deal), Dunn would be the better bet since he's younger and won't cost prospects. With the prices for free agents being what they are, there's really little reason to trade for Jermaine Dye.

I'm with you on Swisher. Love the flexibility, on offense, on defense and with respect to his contract. I don't think the price will necessarily


Maybe Dunn will have to settle for less than Abreu.

Doubtful.


swishers bat no where near dyes

OK, but Swisher's still likely to be the more valuable player going forward. Looking at Dye's 2008 season, where he was a very strong hitter, he erased just about all of his offensive value by putting on a glove and attempting to play right field. Even if you assume no decline from 2008 (which isn't very reasonable given Dye's age), Dye's about a two-win outfielder. Swisher was a 3+ WAR outfielder in both 2006 and 2007, and his bat will bounce back. The only reason to get Dye over Swisher would be if Dye comes significantly cheaper.


b/c dye >>>>>> abreu

I'm not sure the difference is that extreme. Both are horrific defenders, and Dye is a better hitter, but Abreu will be paid far less. I don't love either one.

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 06:16 PM
OK, you're nitpicking over a point that really doesn't matter. Even if we were going to pay 90% of Dye's money to Dunn (even over a multi-year deal), Dunn would be the better bet since he's younger and won't cost prospects. With the prices for free agents being what they are, there's really little reason to trade for Jermaine Dye.

I'm with you on Swisher. Love the flexibility, on offense, on defense and with respect to his contract. I don't think the price will necessarily.

The idea here was that Abreu vs Dye and not Dye vs Dunn. Huge difference in looking at both scenario bc Abreu will make a few million less then Dunn or Dye will make. I think when its all set and done Dye and Dunn will make about the same. Like with Abreu id rather sign Dunn then trade for Dye.

rtgthree
02-03-2009, 09:06 PM
The idea here was that Abreu vs Dye and not Dye vs Dunn.

Maybe, but in my original post (the one to which you responded), I said Dunn, not Abreu.


Huge difference in looking at both scenario bc Abreu will make a few million less then Dunn or Dye will make. I think when its all set and done Dye and Dunn will make about the same. Like with Abreu id rather sign Dunn then trade for Dye.

I really don't think Dunn is looking at a $12 million payday, not from what we've heard reported. He's going to be glad just to get $10 million. Still, even if he costs $13 million, I'd say he's a better buy than Dye. Bobby Abreu is a better buy as well, but I still think the Braves could get someone better than any of those guys.

ATL Hawks
02-03-2009, 09:09 PM
Maybe, but in my original post (the one to which you responded), I said Dunn, not Abreu.



I really don't think Dunn is looking at a $12 million payday, not from what we've heard reported. He's going to be glad just to get $10 million. Still, even if he costs $13 million, I'd say he's a better buy than Dye. Bobby Abreu is a better buy as well, but I still think the Braves could get someone better than any of those guys.

such as.... and dont say nick swisher

rtgthree
02-03-2009, 09:20 PM
such as.... and dont say nick swisher

Talks could be reopened for Ryan Ludwick, or opened for Brian Roberts. Or, of course, Nick Swisher, who is more available than either Ludwick or Roberts, and also better than Dunn, Dye or Abreu. He's the happy middle ground between paying a ton in prospects and getting someone that's going to erase most of his offensive value in the field.

If you really want to make a case against Nick Swisher, do it, but don't waste posts on unsupported one-liners like that.

ATL Hawks
02-03-2009, 11:39 PM
Talks could be reopened for Ryan Ludwick, or opened for Brian Roberts. Or, of course, Nick Swisher, who is more available than either Ludwick or Roberts, and also better than Dunn, Dye or Abreu. He's the happy middle ground between paying a ton in prospects and getting someone that's going to erase most of his offensive value in the field.

If you really want to make a case against Nick Swisher, do it, but don't waste posts on unsupported one-liners like that.

sorry im not really a baseball person. I do, however, want to see the braves do well. My knowledge is strickly superficial. I look at a player's average, homeruns, rbi's, etc. and judge them based on those numbers. And obviously i dont have to tell you that swisher did pretty bad in all of those categories last year. That is my argument against him. The braves dont need anymore players like that.

jmtapia
02-04-2009, 12:58 AM
sorry im not really a baseball person. I do, however, want to see the braves do well. My knowledge is strickly superficial. I look at a player's average, homeruns, rbi's, etc. and judge them based on those numbers. And obviously i dont have to tell you that swisher did pretty bad in all of those categories last year. That is my argument against him. The braves dont need anymore players like that.

:pity:...not the best way to judge a player at all.... Also judging Swisher based on 2008 based on those stats is even worse.

GLASSMAN
02-04-2009, 08:10 AM
sorry im not really a baseball person. I do, however, want to see the braves do well. My knowledge is strickly superficial. I look at a player's average, homeruns, rbi's, etc. and judge them based on those numbers. And obviously i dont have to tell you that swisher did pretty bad in all of those categories last year. That is my argument against him. The braves dont need anymore players like that.

Like a lamb to the slaughter. LOL You may want to saber up a little before you talk stats. Just sayin.

rtgthree
02-04-2009, 12:06 PM
sorry im not really a baseball person. I do, however, want to see the braves do well. My knowledge is strickly superficial. I look at a player's average, homeruns, rbi's, etc. and judge them based on those numbers. And obviously i dont have to tell you that swisher did pretty bad in all of those categories last year. That is my argument against him. The braves dont need anymore players like that.

That's fine, so long as you understand that those kinds of stats don't even come close to other, more advanced metrics, and that looking at only one year's worth of stats is just not a good idea. You think what you want, but know that there are other, far better ways to analyze performance, and those methods think more highly of Swisher than you do.