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View Full Version : How do you decide which player is the better of two?



FOBolous
01-28-2009, 01:25 PM
Do you base it on who wins in H2H matchups?

or

Do you decide base on who averages the better stats?

JordansBulls
01-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Do you base it on who wins in H2H matchups?

or

Do you decide base on who averages the better stats?

Head to head only matters in the playoffs when both teams are contenders.


So generally you base it on a few things.

1) How good are they individually which includes the stats, efficiency, etc

2) Can they carry a team far as the best player on the team

You need to measure by a combination of both.

D_Rose1118
01-28-2009, 01:33 PM
go on nba live and play one on one

NYMetros
01-28-2009, 01:34 PM
Head to head only matters in the playoffs when both teams are contenders.


So generally you base it on a few things.

1) How good are they individually which includes the stats, efficiency, etc

2) Can they carry a team far as the best player on the team

You need to measure by a combination of both.

Agreed.

DrDEADalready
01-28-2009, 01:37 PM
Its tough. but If you do better than them in Head to head matchups consistantly always beat them. Not one day you do good and the other time you don't against them but consistantly enough. Then obviously one is better than the other.

Like I have said before. If you want to prove your better than someone. the only way to do that is actually play against them. You don't call out some neighborhood ****** play them. and the other person plays them and see whos stats were better.

JIDsanity
01-28-2009, 01:38 PM
Head to head over the course of 10 games

_Sn1P3r_
01-28-2009, 01:53 PM
A combination of their success, stats, team record (kind of like success), leadership and more.

Hellcrooner
01-28-2009, 02:01 PM
I look at a lot of things.

Shooting Mechanics

Efficiency of the shoot.

Court Vision.

Pass Selection.

Defense, Individual and Colective.

Leadership.

Tendendy to Hog or to Involve Teamates in the game.

Will to Win.

Mental Toughness.

If he makes team mates better of worse.

Personality.


Acomplishments.

Foot Work.

Fundamentals.

Specific functions for the Position he Plays, Rebounding for Inside players or blocking and Passing and playmaking for Guards.

Age and if they are on the up or on the down of career.


Example im going to compare Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett.

Shooting Mechanics TD 1-0

Efficiency of the shoot.TD 2-0

Court Vision. TD 3-0

Handling KG 3-1

Behaviour TD 4-1

Pass Selection. TD 5-1

Defense, Individual and Colective. Even (Td better Colectiv Kg Better individual)

Leadership. Td 6-1

Tendendy to Hog or to Involve Teamates in the game. Td 7-1

Will to Win. KG 7-2

Mental Toughness.TD 8-2

If he makes team mates better of worse. Td 9-2

Personality(humble/annoyant). Td 10-2


Acomplishments. Td 11- 2 4 rings to 1 baby.

Foot Work. Kg 11-3

Fundamentals. Td 12-3

Specific functions for the Position he Plays, Rebounding for Inside players or blocking and Passing and playmaking for Guards. Td 13-3

Age and if they are on the up or on the down of career. Kg 12-4


So Tim Duncan is a better player for me.

JIDsanity
01-28-2009, 02:30 PM
I look at a lot of things.

Shooting Mechanics

Efficiency of the shoot.

Court Vision.

Pass Selection.

Defense, Individual and Colective.

Leadership.

Tendendy to Hog or to Involve Teamates in the game.

Will to Win.

Mental Toughness.

If he makes team mates better of worse.

Personality.


Acomplishments.

Foot Work.

Fundamentals.

Specific functions for the Position he Plays, Rebounding for Inside players or blocking and Passing and playmaking for Guards.

Age and if they are on the up or on the down of career.


Example im going to compare Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett.

Shooting Mechanics TD 1-0

Efficiency of the shoot.TD 2-0

Court Vision. TD 3-0

Handling KG 3-1

Behaviour TD 4-1

Pass Selection. TD 5-1

Defense, Individual and Colective. Even (Td better Colectiv Kg Better individual)

Leadership. Td 6-1

Tendendy to Hog or to Involve Teamates in the game. Td 7-1

Will to Win. KG 7-2

Mental Toughness.TD 8-2

If he makes team mates better of worse. Td 9-2

Personality(humble/annoyant). Td 10-2


Acomplishments. Td 11- 2 4 rings to 1 baby.

Foot Work. Kg 11-3

Fundamentals. Td 12-3

Specific functions for the Position he Plays, Rebounding for Inside players or blocking and Passing and playmaking for Guards. Td 13-3

Age and if they are on the up or on the down of career. Kg 12-4


So Tim Duncan is a better player for me.

What the hell

chicagowhitesox
01-28-2009, 03:11 PM
season- you go over the long haul.

theuuord
01-28-2009, 03:14 PM
this should be rephrased as "do you judge a player based upon 2 to 4 games, or 82 games?"

IE the obvious answer.

FOBolous
01-28-2009, 03:21 PM
this should be rephrased as "do you judge a player based upon 2 to 4 games, or 82 games?"

IE the obvious answer.

but what if one player always win in h2h matchups whenever the two players meet over the span of a few seasons?

DrDEADalready
01-28-2009, 03:24 PM
but what if one player always win in h2h matchups whenever the two players meet over the span of a few seasons?


example. Deron williams, Chris paul.

laker1000
01-28-2009, 03:24 PM
season because consistency is very important.

theuuord
01-28-2009, 03:27 PM
but what if one player always win in h2h matchups whenever the two players meet over the span of a few seasons?

So what?

Do you trust the variance more of ten games or 200?

theuuord
01-28-2009, 03:28 PM
example. Deron williams, Chris paul.

That's actually a great example. Deron seems to outplay Paul on a majority of their matchups, but it's obvious that Paul is the better player overall.

DrDEADalready
01-28-2009, 03:31 PM
Last season, Paul averaged 21 points, 11.6 assists, four rebounds and 2.7 steals per game. He led the league in assists and steals per game, and also shot a great 48.8 percent from the field, 37 percent from the three-point line, and 85 percent from the free-throw line, while averaging just 2.5 turnovers per game in 80 games played.

On the other hand, last season, Williams averaged 18.8 points, 10.5 assists, three rebounds and 1.1 steals, while shooting a fantastic 50.7 percent from the field, 39.5 percent from the three-point line, and 80.3 percent from the free throw line, and also averaged only 3.4 turnovers per game in all 82 games.

In my opinion, Deron Williams is the best point guard in the game. He is more durable than Paul, he plays much better head-to-head against Paul, he doesn't have as good teammates as Paul does, and he is more clutch than Paul is.



Deron vs. Paul Head to Head

So far in three seasons, Deron and Paul have faced each other ten times. Deron has completely dominated Paul in most of the their matchups. The Jazz are 8-2 against the Hornets in these games.

Deron has career averages of 17.5 points, 7.6 assists, and 3.4 rebounds, while shooting a tremendous 54.3 percent from the field and 42 percent from the three-point line against the Hornets in his career.

On the other hand, Paul has struggled mightily against Deron, as he has career averages of 13.8 points, nine assists, and three rebounds, while shooting a terrible 35.4 percent from the field and 15 percent from the three-point line against the Jazz in his career. So when Paul faces the best point guard, he struggles a lot and loses the majority of the time.

FOBolous
01-28-2009, 03:31 PM
So what?

Do you trust the variance more of ten games or 200?

but in the streets...for a person to prove he is the player compared to someone else, they would play each other 1 on 1 which is like h2h matchups

theuuord
01-28-2009, 03:33 PM
but in the streets...for a person to prove he is the player compared to someone else, they would play each other 1 on 1 which is like h2h matchups

um.... okay.

Except NBA players don't play on the streets.

To add to that point, Jason Kidd would probably get his butt kicked by Ricky Davis in a one on one. Doesn't make Ricky Davis a better basketball player.

Chronz
01-28-2009, 04:28 PM
Last season, Paul averaged 21 points, 11.6 assists, four rebounds and 2.7 steals per game. He led the league in assists and steals per game, and also shot a great 48.8 percent from the field, 37 percent from the three-point line, and 85 percent from the free-throw line, while averaging just 2.5 turnovers per game in 80 games played.

On the other hand, last season, Williams averaged 18.8 points, 10.5 assists, three rebounds and 1.1 steals, while shooting a fantastic 50.7 percent from the field, 39.5 percent from the three-point line, and 80.3 percent from the free throw line, and also averaged only 3.4 turnovers per game in all 82 games.

In my opinion, Deron Williams is the best point guard in the game. He is more durable than Paul, he plays much better head-to-head against Paul, he doesn't have as good teammates as Paul does, and he is more clutch than Paul is.



Deron vs. Paul Head to Head

So far in three seasons, Deron and Paul have faced each other ten times. Deron has completely dominated Paul in most of the their matchups. The Jazz are 8-2 against the Hornets in these games.

Deron has career averages of 17.5 points, 7.6 assists, and 3.4 rebounds, while shooting a tremendous 54.3 percent from the field and 42 percent from the three-point line against the Hornets in his career.

On the other hand, Paul has struggled mightily against Deron, as he has career averages of 13.8 points, nine assists, and three rebounds, while shooting a terrible 35.4 percent from the field and 15 percent from the three-point line against the Jazz in his career. So when Paul faces the best point guard, he struggles a lot and loses the majority of the time.

Couldnt we make that same case for Paul Pierce vs Kobe hes shot like 40% for his career against him or something along those lines anyways Im just saying, unless those head 2 head matchups prove true in the playoffs they dont hold much relevance (In the Kobe VS Pierce case it still held true and I still dont think it matters all that much), there are so many OTHER teams these guys have to play to judge them by what they do against 1 defensive scheme makes for an incomplete analysis.

But to answer the question I try my best to gauge to players impact from an objective stance.

DrDEADalready
01-28-2009, 04:44 PM
Yeah but Deron absolutly dominates Paul in head to head matchups. and in last season stats. Paul is barely better than him. BARELY. better than him in stats. So getting dominated by williams everytime they play and still barely being slightly better stat wise last season. and yet. "paul is way better than williams" Plus deron in his 3 seasons thus far (not including this one) Only started two seasons and still made it deeper into the playoffs than Paul has. when paul has started all of his seasons.

So I just can't see how huge of a diffence is between Williams and Paul. when Deron completly dominates, paul when they face each other. and yet paul is just barely stats wise better. That right there has to prove whos the better player when they face each other and also all around

JordansBulls
01-28-2009, 04:59 PM
but what if one player always win in h2h matchups whenever the two players meet over the span of a few seasons?

So you are trying to say Yao is better than Dwight because he beats him head to head?:D

NYstateofMinD
01-28-2009, 05:14 PM
I would say Ricky Davis would lose to Jason Kidd to a one on one as stated before. But yes as a basketball player myself, the one who outplays the other one is what decides this. ONLY if he consistently wins he is better. If they are close like lets say player a wins 3 out of 5 against player b than you have to look at things more in depth, sorta what hellcooner was saying.

MAC10TIZZY
01-28-2009, 05:17 PM
compare them to dwight howard, which everone of these two reaches half his ability , they will be crowned the victiorian...........

lakers4sho
01-28-2009, 08:06 PM
So you are trying to say Yao is better than Dwight because he beats him head to head?:D

He IS better than Dwight IMO.

astrosmaniac
01-28-2009, 08:26 PM
Last season, Paul averaged 21 points, 11.6 assists, four rebounds and 2.7 steals per game. He led the league in assists and steals per game, and also shot a great 48.8 percent from the field, 37 percent from the three-point line, and 85 percent from the free-throw line, while averaging just 2.5 turnovers per game in 80 games played.

On the other hand, last season, Williams averaged 18.8 points, 10.5 assists, three rebounds and 1.1 steals, while shooting a fantastic 50.7 percent from the field, 39.5 percent from the three-point line, and 80.3 percent from the free throw line, and also averaged only 3.4 turnovers per game in all 82 games.

[In my opinion, Deron Williams is the best point guard in the game. He is more durable than Paul, he plays much better head-to-head against Paul, he doesn't have as good teammates as Paul does, and he is more clutch than Paul is.



Deron vs. Paul Head to Head

So far in three seasons, Deron and Paul have faced each other ten times. Deron has completely dominated Paul in most of the their matchups. The Jazz are 8-2 against the Hornets in these games.

Deron has career averages of 17.5 points, 7.6 assists, and 3.4 rebounds, while shooting a tremendous 54.3 percent from the field and 42 percent from the three-point line against the Hornets in his career.

On the other hand, Paul has struggled mightily against Deron, as he has career averages of 13.8 points, nine assists, and three rebounds, while shooting a terrible 35.4 percent from the field and 15 percent from the three-point line against the Jazz in his career. So when Paul faces the best point guard, he struggles a lot and loses the majority of the time.
1) you cant say d-will is more durable than paul. last year he played 2 more games. this year d-will missed a big chunk of time. im not saying hes injury prone, but if one guy has missed significant time and the other hasnt, you cant say the one who was injured is more durable. 2) i would say its the other way around, d-will has better teammates than CP3. d-will has AK, boozer, and okur, all legit players before when they played without him. Paul on the other hand MADE west and chandler the players they are. chandler on a team without a dominant point guard = a backup big who's a defensive specialist with minimal offense.


Yeah but Deron absolutly dominates Paul in head to head matchups. and in last season stats. Paul is barely better than him. BARELY. better than him in stats. So getting dominated by williams everytime they play and still barely being slightly better stat wise last season. and yet. "paul is way better than williams" Plus deron in his 3 seasons thus far (not including this one) Only started two seasons and still made it deeper into the playoffs than Paul has. when paul has started all of his seasons.

So I just can't see how huge of a diffence is between Williams and Paul. when Deron completly dominates, paul when they face each other. and yet paul is just barely stats wise better. That right there has to prove whos the better player when they face each other and also all around
you can say the same thing for yao ming. everyone says dwight is far and away the best, but yao averages similar points, slightly less rebounds (because orlando plays small with their PF at the 3 point line, leaving dwight all alone for the rebound), and yao DOMINATES dwight EVERY SINGLE TIME

DrDEADalready
01-29-2009, 11:48 AM
I'll say this. Chris paul is the best PG in the league for the run and gun type offense they run..

And Deron is The best PG in the league with the halfcourt offense we run.

If our offense was like NO. and we played like them. Chris paul would have nothing on Derons stats.
But since we dont run everything through Deron as our Number 1 option. Like NO does with Paul. of course Derons stats are going to be lower than Paul's so if the roles were reversed I guarantee every one would be saying Chris paul who???

Hellcrooner
01-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Yao IS better than Howard.

Howard is just a freak of nature but his game is way less polished.

Kaptain Kanada
01-29-2009, 12:24 PM
Yao IS better than Howard.

Howard is just a freak of nature but his game is way less polished.

:crazy:

theuuord
01-29-2009, 12:28 PM
Yao IS better than Howard.

Howard is just a freak of nature but his game is way less polished.

Yao's game is more polished than Shaq's, too. Doesn't make him a better basketball player.

DerekRE_3
01-29-2009, 01:34 PM
Do you base it on who wins in H2H matchups?

or

Do you decide base on who averages the better stats?

I'm going to say neither.