PDA

View Full Version : The argument is over....CP3 is better than Deron Williams! the numbers prove it!



NOsportsFAN
01-27-2009, 02:19 AM
Chris Paul Deron Williams
PPG: 21.2 16.9
RPG: 5.5 2.7
AST: 11.1 9.9
STL: 2.7 1.0


Ok with these numbers how can you even argue that Deron is better? I know that he was injured earlier this season but come on, theses numbers are ridiculous for any player! Chris also has 5 triple doubles and nearly had 2 quadruple doubles in the process. Paul also is 3rd in the league in double doubles only behind David Lee and Dwight Howard who are both centers even though David does play some forward. Chris is superior in every category except BPG and that is only by .1, Chris has a better FG%, FT%, and 3P%. Also Chris only trails Lebron in PER and is on pace to have the best PER for a PG in NBA history since it became a stat. Is there really even an argument any more? If you have a valid argument or comment please I wanna hear it cause i can't think of one! CHRIS IS SIMPLY THE BEST PG HANDS DOWN!!!!!

superkegger
01-27-2009, 02:26 AM
how can you take only half a season as a sample size to argue who is better? Not saying deron is, but taking only half a season of stats to show who is better is a shallow argument.

pete_one
01-27-2009, 02:26 AM
numbers dont prove anything, i mean, deron williams might be better than cp3 in chess or handball..

Duncan = Donkey
01-27-2009, 02:27 AM
u got a crush on him?

MoBASS
01-27-2009, 02:27 AM
Thank you Captain Obvious.. CP3 has been the undisputed best point guard in the league for over a season and a half.

This seasons stats aren't really necessary.

DerekRE_3
01-27-2009, 02:45 AM
1. Stats don't tell the whole story.
2. Deron hasn't been 100% this year, and may never get to 100%.

That being said...I do think Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA right now.

kurtismurray
01-27-2009, 02:48 AM
You are unable to judge these point guards according to this season. Deron was injured and only played about 20 minutes to 25 minutes while recovering. When CP3 was playing 40 minutes. Have you seen D-Will's recent production? He has been spectacular. I'm not saying D-Will is better because I honestly believe the 2 thrive in the systems they are in. Deron does better with a Jerry Sloan type offense of posting up and executing the half court game. CP3 does a good job of running and racking up assists of allyoops to Tyson Chandler. Deron Williams has also led his team to the Western Conference Finals in his second year, something Chris Paul has yet to do. You can argue numbers, but they prove nothing.

madiaz3
01-27-2009, 02:52 AM
Even though he is outperforming him statistically Deron seems to be the only one who can slow him down. (I admit it doesn't make him better just to be able to outdo the best not not the rest.)

This season utah vs NO, utah wins by 26

Last season NOH drops 3/4 games to Utah.
Deron 4 points 16 assists / CP3 4 points 9 assists
Deron 29/11 vs CP3 6/6

ETC.

Raidaz4Life
01-27-2009, 02:54 AM
1. Stats don't tell the whole story.
2. Deron hasn't been 100% this year, and may never get to 100%.

That being said...I do think Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA right now.

agree 100% is there anyone actually trying to make the argument that Deron is better?

Kyle916
01-27-2009, 03:04 AM
Right now: Chris Paul

The argument is far from over on those reasons is weak.

Here are Chris Paul's Floor Time Statistics:

Min: 78%
Net Pts: +240
Off: 100.4
Def: 92.8
Net48: 7.6
W: 28
L: 11
Win %: 71.8

Here are Deron Williams Floor Time Statistics:

Min: 51%
Net Pts: +47
Off: 105.0
Def: 103.0
Net48: 2.0
W: 15
L: 17
Win %: 46.9

These numbers are on 82games.com

This season alone Paul has been much more valuable to his team than Williams, but this isn't the best comparison because Williams has missed some time due to injury, which has in turn affected the his effectiveness along with the number of minutes he's played.

For 2007-2008

Chris Paul

Net Pts: +479

Deron Williams

Net Pts: +423

2006-2007

Chris Paul

Net Pts: -44

Deron Williams

Net Pts: +156

2005-2006

Chris Paul

Net Pts: -180

Deron Williams

Net Pts: -103

Overall, those numbers are very similar. Neither one has separated themselves as clearly more important to their teams. This year alone, Paul has been much better than Deron Williams.

stawka
01-27-2009, 03:06 AM
1. Stats don't tell the whole story.
2. Deron hasn't been 100% this year, and may never get to 100%.

That being said...I do think Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA right now and has been for the last 2 years - making this post and this thread pointless

Fixed it up for you bro :)

DerekRE_3
01-27-2009, 03:06 AM
Fixed it up for you bro :)

Sounds good to me.

kurtismurray
01-27-2009, 07:35 AM
CP3 may be a little better statistically... but I'll guarantee Deron will lead Utah to a championship before Chris Paul does. Maybe not this year, but I think next year Utah will be NBA Champs.

HOZ THE KNICK
01-27-2009, 08:31 AM
this wasn't never a argument in the 1st place cp3 was always better.

Brooke
01-27-2009, 08:58 AM
CP3 may be better but D-Will isnt that far behind him....

why is it every time they have played each other D-Will always gets the upper hand

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 09:20 AM
your right the arguement is over. look at their head to head numbers how cp3 becomes dwill's little cajun ******

dwill has no team.and he's been hurt

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 09:21 AM
plus deron has D unlike paul

JordansBulls
01-27-2009, 09:26 AM
Chris Paul Deron Williams
PPG: 21.2 16.9
RPG: 5.5 2.7
AST: 11.1 9.9
STL: 2.7 1.0


Ok with these numbers how can you even argue that Deron is better? I know that he was injured earlier this season but come on, theses numbers are ridiculous for any player! Chris also has 5 triple doubles and nearly had 2 quadruple doubles in the process. Paul also is 3rd in the league in double doubles only behind David Lee and Dwight Howard who are both centers even though David does play some forward. Chris is superior in every category except BPG and that is only by .1, Chris has a better FG%, FT%, and 3P%. Also Chris only trails Lebron in PER and is on pace to have the best PER for a PG in NBA history since it became a stat. Is there really even an argument any more? If you have a valid argument or comment please I wanna hear it cause i can't think of one! CHRIS IS SIMPLY THE BEST PG HANDS DOWN!!!!!

I agree that CP3 is better than Deron this year and he was last year as well.

Butter$
01-27-2009, 09:29 AM
Chris Paul Deron Williams
PPG: 21.2 16.9
RPG: 5.5 2.7
AST: 11.1 9.9
STL: 2.7 1.0


Ok with these numbers how can you even argue that Deron is better? I know that he was injured earlier this season but come on, theses numbers are ridiculous for any player! Chris also has 5 triple doubles and nearly had 2 quadruple doubles in the process. Paul also is 3rd in the league in double doubles only behind David Lee and Dwight Howard who are both centers even though David does play some forward. Chris is superior in every category except BPG and that is only by .1, Chris has a better FG%, FT%, and 3P%. Also Chris only trails Lebron in PER and is on pace to have the best PER for a PG in NBA history since it became a stat. Is there really even an argument any more? If you have a valid argument or comment please I wanna hear it cause i can't think of one! CHRIS IS SIMPLY THE BEST PG HANDS DOWN!!!!!

Dude your preaching to the choir here. Any1 that thinks Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul doesn't know basketball.

And for the record, David Lee is a forward who's playing center.

Butter$
01-27-2009, 09:32 AM
your right the arguement is over. look at their head to head numbers how cp3 becomes dwill's little cajun ******

dwill has no team.and he's been hurt

Okur, Boozer, Milsap, AK47...bunch of stiffs huh:rolleyes:

Butter$
01-27-2009, 09:33 AM
Thank you Captain Obvious.. CP3 has been the undisputed best point guard in the league for over a season and a half.

This seasons stats aren't really necessary.

I second the captain obvious.

Testaverde16
01-27-2009, 09:37 AM
I thought they were about even, then last year Paul seperated himself and become number one, now its just accepted that he is. Is that not how it went? either way, this isn't really news.

innovator
01-27-2009, 09:49 AM
cp3 >>>>>>>>> deron

Layneh3180
01-27-2009, 10:08 AM
CP3 is an amazing player. He and Deron both bring different things to the table. And they are both great for the NBA not to mention they are also great friends. Honestly of the two I think CP3 is the better all around player. But when he and D-Will play each other he gets owned almost everytime... Why dont you look into the head to head stats. Then you might get some perspective. But I am happy that they are both in the league. We will have many years to enjoy the greatness of both players....

Iron24th
01-27-2009, 10:14 AM
CP3 is te best PG in the NBA,no question about that.

frizbo72
01-27-2009, 10:21 AM
CP3 is always going to win in stats because of the system he plays in vs. Dwill under Sloan. I think my vote is for most valuable to their team and right now IMO I think if both were to sit for a season Utah would hurt more then NO due to their system and the way Dwill runs it. Same reason noone ever mentions Stockton as a top five PG of all time even though his assists and steal records will never be broken. Had Dwill went to NO and CP3 to utah we would be saying how Dwill has better stats and is the best PG in the league.

futureman
01-27-2009, 10:34 AM
CP3 maybe better than deron, theres no denying that. But Millsap is better than West.

The Prodigy
01-27-2009, 10:41 AM
cp3 is better than d-will but gap isnt as much as people on here come to believe. D-will isnt playing completely healthy and probably wont be until after the allstar break and thats if he doesnt compete in the allstar game. I think d-will would strive in any type of system while cp3 will strive in an uptempo system. Also d will defense is tremendously better than chris paul

jimbobjarree
01-27-2009, 11:08 AM
we've had this argument numbers of times. Take the comparison of last year in the last 3/4 months of the season, both fully fit in great form, and you'll notice their averages ar ebaout the same, if not Derons are better.

people need to start getting off cp3s dick, hes being blown out of proportion and Deron isnt really that far off him when both are fully fit.

DLeeicious
01-27-2009, 11:27 AM
If anyone is arguing other than CP3 being the best than don't waste your time because there is no point in arguing with a moron.

The Prodigy
01-27-2009, 11:28 AM
we've had this argument numbers of times. Take the comparison of last year in the last 3/4 months of the season, both fully fit in great form, and you'll notice their averages ar ebaout the same, if not Derons are better.

people need to start getting off cp3s dick, hes being blown out of proportion and Deron isnt really that far off him when both are fully fit.

its all the media fault. they only focus on core players of the nba. until peopole stop watching espn or at least question what they say and come to their own opinion that actually makes sense then they'll understand.

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Okur, Boozer, Milsap, AK47...bunch of stiffs huh:rolleyes:


Okur= sucks
Boozer is out
AK47 is out.
Millsap is the only good one on that list.

Deron has only gotten back to his old self the past few games. so the stats right now Mean nothing.

Deron in the past five games is averaging. 26pts 9.5 assists

Paul is averaging in the past five games 24pts and 9.8 assits.

by based on that they are pretty much equal cept deron score more points. lets wait till the end of the season before you base your decision on numbers

DerekRE_3
01-27-2009, 11:58 AM
CP3 may be better but D-Will isnt that far behind him....

why is it every time they have played each other D-Will always gets the upper hand

Because D-Will is a lot bigger. It's just not a good matchup for Paul.

Zefflin
01-27-2009, 12:19 PM
Both are incredible. CP3 is playing better currently. D-will's team is heavily injured, plus he's just coming back from injury himself.

pacofunk64
01-27-2009, 12:26 PM
I can't believe this is even an argument...honestly CP3 is the best PG in the league right now.The guy throws up a triple double almost every game. No debate here.

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 12:41 PM
um boozer isnt playing, okus IS a stiff with no d as a center, ak47 is a nobody and millsap is boozers backup

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 12:43 PM
ok kidd was a triple threat guy every night and he never the best pg in the game just one of the top

and if paul is better than dwill someone explain why deron owns him head to head

WickedBadMan
01-27-2009, 01:13 PM
Shaq > Kwame Brown...?

THE MTL
01-27-2009, 02:03 PM
ok kidd was a triple threat guy every night and he never the best pg in the game just one of the top

and if paul is better than dwill someone explain why deron owns him head to head

Cause Deron is big as hell.

THE MTL
01-27-2009, 02:05 PM
Chris Paul is so much better than Deron Williams its not even a fair. Seriously to compare Paul to Deron is an insult to Paul. Chris Paul is the best PG in the league and can be one of the best of all time as well as the best little man to ever play the game.

Chris Paul is in a league of Kobe, Lebron, and Wade.

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 02:06 PM
no excuse

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 02:07 PM
chris had one great season compared to kobes' 10
no comparison-nowhere in his league,kobe is a HOF now

THE MTL
01-27-2009, 02:07 PM
no excuse

Wade always shows up Kobe.

NYstateofMinD
01-27-2009, 02:19 PM
How is the argument over? Deron has been injured all season until recently. Chris Paul is definitely playing great now, but that's like comparing Kobe to Dwade last year. Head to head matchups Deron always owns and how can you not use head to head matchups? This is a sport where there is a loser and a winner, stats are fine but their teams are about equal, and NOH may have an arguably better team. They play different roles on their teams and different styles but in the end I would take Deron. He is more of my preference as a player but it will be debatable in who is better. Right now Deron is injured, but when healthy he always shows up CP3 so right now he is better.

MagicBucsSox
01-27-2009, 02:56 PM
is wade better than kobe?

GspLAL
01-27-2009, 03:12 PM
Didnt Deron out play CP3 last season in almost all the meetings? I could be wrong but I think he did.

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 03:17 PM
Didnt Deron out play CP3 last season in almost all the meetings? I could be wrong but I think he did.

Nope your absolutly correct. he outplayed him. and won 3 of the 4 games as well. Dwill>>>>>>Paul

Zefflin
01-27-2009, 03:22 PM
Wade always shows up Kobe.

:pity: What do you even say to people like you??

Kyle916
01-27-2009, 05:12 PM
Didnt Deron out play CP3 last season in almost all the meetings? I could be wrong but I think he did.

That doesn't decide who's a better PG.

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 05:16 PM
That doesn't decide who's a better PG.

Yeah That's a better way of judging than looking at stats at this point.
If you want to prove to someone your better than them. you don't play against the neighborhood ******. and the other guy play against the ******. and see who has the better stats. You play against the actual guy. Time in and time out Dwill always plays better than Paul. with stats and the actual wins to.

The Prodigy
01-27-2009, 05:26 PM
I can't believe this is even an argument...honestly CP3 is the best PG in the league right now.The guy throws up a triple double almost every game. No debate here.

he has five out of the 40 sumthin games he played

The Prodigy
01-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Yeah That's a better way of judging than looking at stats at this point.
If you want to prove to someone your better than them. you don't play against the neighborhood ******. and the other guy play against the ******. and see who has the better stats. You play against the actual guy. Time in and time out Dwill always plays better than Paul. with stats and the actual wins to.

great analogy:clap::clap::clap:

madiaz3
01-27-2009, 05:34 PM
Wade always shows up Kobe.

Only difference is that Deron's team wins while he shows up CP3.

Kyle916
01-27-2009, 05:51 PM
Yeah That's a better way of judging than looking at stats at this point.
If you want to prove to someone your better than them. you don't play against the neighborhood ******. and the other guy play against the ******. and see who has the better stats. You play against the actual guy. Time in and time out Dwill always plays better than Paul. with stats and the actual wins to.

The judge of who a better point guard goes by how successful the team he is on is.

If you were judging who is the better one-on-one player, then you have the right analogy.

Look at my post earlier, referencing impact on the team, and both have had very similar impacts to their respective teams.

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Chris paul is great and amazing when he plays against every other PG unless he faces Deron williams. and Williams shuts him down 99% of the time So he's better than everyone else just not Williams? he can't beat williams?

Vinny642
01-27-2009, 06:05 PM
CP3 may be better but D-Will isnt that far behind him....

why is it every time they have played each other D-Will always gets the upper hand

Who got it this year so far?
CP3- 26 Points I believe, 7 Assists

D Will- 8 points and 8 Assists
this game was at Utah and Jazz won but clearly CP3 outperformed DWill. Its just all our other people sucked that game. Yes you cant bring up the number from the other years but what does that prove we played two games at Utah last year and didn't they get less then 10 losses in that stadium??? But the arguement is who is the better point guard, CP3 rips any PG in the league.... I don't see that from D Will.
I believe that DWill is the second best point guard... but for right now CP3 is better.

Vinny642
01-27-2009, 06:09 PM
Chris paul is great and amazing when he plays against every other PG unless he faces Deron williams. and Williams shuts him down 99% of the time So he's better than everyone else just not Williams? he can't beat williams?

Its not CPs fault we lose to the Jazz, our team does *** against you guys IDK why they just do. D Williams doesn't shut CP down 99% of the time and U know that. If D Will wasn't on the Jazz you would be sticking up for Paul.

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Its not CPs fault we lose to the Jazz, our team does *** against you guys IDK why they just do. D Williams doesn't shut CP down 99% of the time and U know that. If D Will wasn't on the Jazz you would be sticking up for Paul.

I can honestly say that if Paul was on the Jazz. I'd still be sticking up for Dwill. watching all the times they play eachother. I'd be pissed watching williams make paul look bad everytime they play. and I'm not talking about the game they played this year. Williams wasn't healthy and wasn't playing at his normal self. Whens the next time they play? Just recently Deron is back to his self and playing like he normally does. so when they face eachother next time and Williams is still playing like he is right now. and Paul still beats him. then I'll say Paul is better than williams at this point. but untill then Williams is still better than paul.

Vinny642
01-27-2009, 06:22 PM
How is the argument over? Deron has been injured all season until recently. Chris Paul is definitely playing great now, but that's like comparing Kobe to Dwade last year. Head to head matchups Deron always owns and how can you not use head to head matchups? This is a sport where there is a loser and a winner, stats are fine but their teams are about equal, and NOH may have an arguably better team. They play different roles on their teams and different styles but in the end I would take Deron. He is more of my preference as a player but it will be debatable in who is better. Right now Deron is injured, but when healthy he always shows up CP3 so right now he is better.

If you were to start a franchise and pick D Will over Paul because of Head to Head matchups you are stupid as hell. Just because a player does better against one player and isn't as great against other players you pick them. If head to head stats count so bad, so does last season regular season stats and this years stats.
Chris Paul is leading the league in Assists, Steals, Triple Doubles, He is leading the PGs in PER, only trailing LeBron. His team record is better and weren't totally healthy either. He is third in double doubles trailing two centers. So all you stupid fans thinking that DWill is better because of head to head believe what you want.

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 06:25 PM
If you were to start a franchise and pick D Will over Paul because of Head to Head matchups you are stupid as hell. Just because a player does better against one player and isn't as great against other players you pick them. If head to head stats count so bad, so does last season regular season stats and this years stats.
Chris Paul is leading the league in Assists, Steals, Triple Doubles, He is leading the PGs in PER, only trailing LeBron. His team record is better and weren't totally healthy either. He is third in double doubles trailing two centers. So all you stupid fans thinking that DWill is better because of head to head believe what you want.

Well you don't find it weird that he can beat all of the other pg in the league but can't do it to williams?

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 06:26 PM
If you can beat all of the other players but you can beat one? doesn't that make that one better than you?

Vinny642
01-27-2009, 06:26 PM
I can honestly say that if Paul was on the Jazz. I'd still be sticking up for Dwill. watching all the times they play eachother. I'd be pissed watching williams make paul look bad everytime they play. and I'm not talking about the game they played this year. Williams wasn't healthy and wasn't playing at his normal self. Whens the next time they play? Just recently Deron is back to his self and playing like he normally does. so when they face eachother next time and Williams is still playing like he is right now. and Paul still beats him. then I'll say Paul is better than williams at this point. but untill then Williams is still better than paul.

Dude no you would be on CPs **** like everybody in New Orleans if he was on the Jazz. You shouldn't be able to use injuries as an excuse, because when ever I say the Seahawks were injured people are like so what they still suck. But we made the playoffs 5 years straight, so I dont get how we suck, but thats for another thread

DrDEADalready
01-27-2009, 06:28 PM
Dude no you would be on CPs **** like everybody in New Orleans if he was on the Jazz. You shouldn't be able to use injuries as an excuse, because when ever I say the Seahawks were injured people are like so what they still suck. But we made the playoffs 5 years straight, so I dont get how we suck, but thats for another thread


Playing hurt vs some one healthy

Yeah def no advantage there.

Vinny642
01-27-2009, 06:29 PM
If you can beat all of the other players but you can beat one? doesn't that make that one better than you?

DWill doesn't outperform other PGs like CP does...

Vinny642
01-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Playing hurt vs some one healthy

Yeah def no advantage there.

Thats what im saying with the Seahawks thing... you can't say we suck because we aren't healthy

The Answer3
01-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Chris Paul has always been better than Deron and will always be better than Deron provided he doesn't get injured. Seriously, this isn't even much of a debate.

unwantedplayer
01-27-2009, 06:39 PM
D-Will is a much stronger player and is tough. Paul is shorter and not as strong.

BALLER71
01-27-2009, 06:41 PM
SPG does not make Paul a better defender. I saw D-Will lockdown Wade, I don't think Paul can shut down Wade with that small frame.

IndyRealist
01-27-2009, 06:42 PM
If anyone is arguing other than CP3 being the best than don't waste your time because there is no point in arguing with a moron.

I love when people say junk like this, or "That's just the way it is", etc. It just goes to show that they've run out of arguments, and are trying to win by being overbearing and rude.

CP3 is the NBA's golden boy behind Lebron and Kobe. He fills up a stat sheet. He's a triple-double machine. He is a big time, 4th quarter player. Right now, Paul is better.

BUT. Paul has glaring holes in his game. He's undersized and can't play D except by gambling to get steals. He has trouble staying in front of his man. Ultimately he's most effective driving the lane and drawing contact or hitting short jumpers, not shooting from outside.

Williams is a HUGE PG, big and strong but still quick. He also fills out a stat sheet when healthy. Where Paul will eventually slow down and become less effective, Deron will still have the assets that make him a great PG.

Head to head matchups do matter. Great players elevate their game against rivals, they don't fold. If this becomes a pattern, other NBA teams will take note and bring in big PG's for the sole purpose of slowing down Chris Paul. They don't have to stop him, they just have to cut his production enough so that it's the rest of the team trying to beat you, not Paul.

Ultimately this question shouldn't even be asked until 10 years from now, when we've got more years to watch their games, and see how they evolve as players. One or two seasons is not enough to say that the stats prove everything.

Zefflin
01-27-2009, 07:00 PM
^^^ Correct.

jimbobjarree
01-27-2009, 07:19 PM
both are great players, but Deron abuses Paul almost every time they play, and the Jazz usually bully the Hornets every time they play, even when Deron had a bum ankle which has slowed him down severely all season, he has struggled with his lateral quickness (the only thing Paul has) and still puts up fantastic numbers for a point guard, a point guard working with players who spent the majority of last season on the bench.

also, for CP3's inflated stats you have to look at the system, the Hornets seem to run everything through Paul (which is wise, dont get me wrong) so he'll get more points and more assists as he'll have the ball more. In Jerry Sloans system its hard to be a great individual player with flashy stats cus we are a team, so whereas CP3 gets more assists, as a team we still get way more than the Hornets cus everyone gets involved, we run the offense through everyone and anyone can be the distributer. CP3 gets more assists, yet his team only have 4 players averaging double figures, whereas we have almost 7 (granted Millsap would have around 10/11 points if not for the Boozer injury), shows Deron has a much better influence on making his team mates better than Paul does.

In the points aspect Paul is the main option on offense for the Hornets, it gets to the clutch he will be the man making the shots, either him or West anyway, but mainly him. Whereas on the Jazz in the clutch we go to Memo for jumpers, Boozer has alot of shots and then Deron, who is reluctant to take his own jump shots early in a shot clock because of Jerry Sloans system of preferring to pass it around to try and find the easy lay up. Again CP3 has more (Deron would have around 20 again though, but his injury has screwed him over) points, but as a team we outscore them by almost 6, even though they are known as a more uptempo better to watch team than us. Also remember that a fully fit Deron last season shot over 50% from the field, whereas CP3 did not.

so Paul will go down as the flashy point guard with great stats and probably be the star point guard in history, whereas Deron and probably Millsap in 10 years time will go down as the 'Stockton and Malone' type stars, consistant, team players who stayed with the team philosophy in order to win games (which got them to the finals twice, unfortunatly not winning). Some say Stockton could have been a much better player somewhere else, he definatly could have scored more if he had wanted to, but he sacrificed that for team success.

madiaz3
01-27-2009, 07:25 PM
I love when people say junk like this, or "That's just the way it is", etc. It just goes to show that they've run out of arguments, and are trying to win by being overbearing and rude.

CP3 is the NBA's golden boy behind Lebron and Kobe. He fills up a stat sheet. He's a triple-double machine. He is a big time, 4th quarter player. Right now, Paul is better.

BUT. Paul has glaring holes in his game. He's undersized and can't play D except by gambling to get steals. He has trouble staying in front of his man. Ultimately he's most effective driving the lane and drawing contact or hitting short jumpers, not shooting from outside.

Williams is a HUGE PG, big and strong but still quick. He also fills out a stat sheet when healthy. Where Paul will eventually slow down and become less effective, Deron will still have the assets that make him a great PG.

Head to head matchups do matter. Great players elevate their game against rivals, they don't fold. If this becomes a pattern, other NBA teams will take note and bring in big PG's for the sole purpose of slowing down Chris Paul. They don't have to stop him, they just have to cut his production enough so that it's the rest of the team trying to beat you, not Paul.

Ultimately this question shouldn't even be asked until 10 years from now, when we've got more years to watch their games, and see how they evolve as players. One or two seasons is not enough to say that the stats prove everything.

best post so far, the one right before me is the 2nd

PurpleJesus
01-27-2009, 07:39 PM
i didnt know there was an argument, i thought it was a well known fact that CP3 is the best point in the league.

Bandwag0n Hater
01-27-2009, 07:45 PM
stats always lie. im not saying deron is better, but i hate it when ppl go by stats cuz they dont always tell the story. they can be misleading

toronto_JazzFan
01-27-2009, 09:12 PM
personally i would take deron williams over CP3, but dont get me wrong CP3 is an amazing player but i like deron williams my favorite pg right now.

Kyle916
01-28-2009, 12:05 AM
Lets look at the 2007-2008 season:

Here are Chris Paul and Deron Williams' Floor Time Statistics for that year:

Paul:
-Min: 75%
-+/-: +479
-Off: 104.5
-Def: 96.9
-Net48: +7.7
-W: 54
-L: 23
-Win %: 70.1%

Williams:
-Min: 77%
-+/-: +423
-Off: 107.7
-Def: 101.1
-Net48: +6.6
-W: 51
-L: 30
-Win %: 63%

Based on those statistics, they were both similarly affective to their teams. Paul is only slightly better, but using these statistics, Williams was greatly more important to his team than Paul in 06-07, in 05-06 Williams was slightly more important again.

Looking at that, it shows that Williams as a better positive affect on his team.

These numbers are found on 82games.com

dodgernation
01-28-2009, 01:15 AM
Obviously he is better, Chris Paul is clearly the best PG, but i do like williams a lot also

NYstateofMinD
01-28-2009, 09:44 AM
If you were to start a franchise and pick D Will over Paul because of Head to Head matchups you are stupid as hell. Just because a player does better against one player and isn't as great against other players you pick them. If head to head stats count so bad, so does last season regular season stats and this years stats.
Chris Paul is leading the league in Assists, Steals, Triple Doubles, He is leading the PGs in PER, only trailing LeBron. His team record is better and weren't totally healthy either. He is third in double doubles trailing two centers. So all you stupid fans thinking that DWill is better because of head to head believe what you want.

Ok I'm a Knicks fan, so relax. If you play basketball then you know head to head matchups are what count the most. I don't get your logic. I can score 100 points on little kids and record it on youtube. Is that going to impress anyone? No. If I score 100 points on a well known player then that's an accomplishment.

jimbobjarree
01-28-2009, 10:01 AM
some more recent stats I just wanted to bring up. The few games or so Deron has been back to almost his best, though I'd still say 90% of what he can do, but here are his stats from both of their last 7 games

Deron 22.4 ppg and 11.7 apg
Paul 25.7 ppg and 11apg

and in the month of January Deron averages 20 and 11 while Paul averages 24 and 10

so both at full flow in top form are about similar anyway, with the slight edge to Paul on points. So dont come in with the full season stats where deron limped for the first month while he was playing, where he had no speed to get to the rim and no elevation on his jump for his shots, its what happens from now on is where we should compare them.

and yes Paul has better stats, and all the idiots who dont watch Paul and just hear about him will come in and say 'is it even a discussion' and 'paul by a mile', but is it really by such a margin that we say Paul will go down in history as the best pg ever and Deron will just be forgotten about, I dont think so

Vinny642
01-28-2009, 07:15 PM
Ok I'm a Knicks fan, so relax. If you play basketball then you know head to head matchups are what count the most. I don't get your logic. I can score 100 points on little kids and record it on youtube. Is that going to impress anyone? No. If I score 100 points on a well known player then that's an accomplishment.

This isn't about your hobby playing with little kids... and CP and DWill will never score 100 on each other. But my logic is it doesn't make you a better player if your better head to head against one player and against the rest your not as great.
Im saying CP outperforms everybody he plays except DWill. But DWill doesn't outperform other PGs like CP does. I'd rather the player beating all PGs except one then the PG that is good against one but isn't as good against other point guards. And if you pick the player that is only good against one PG then ur stupid.
CP makes his team way better then DWill or anyone else in the league.
People STFU with the CP doesn't play defense, just because he is small doesn't mean he can't play defense. I watch him and he plays good defense....

Vinny642
01-28-2009, 07:17 PM
some more recent stats I just wanted to bring up. The few games or so Deron has been back to almost his best, though I'd still say 90% of what he can do, but here are his stats from both of their last 7 games

Deron 22.4 ppg and 11.7 apg
Paul 25.7 ppg and 11apg

and in the month of January Deron averages 20 and 11 while Paul averages 24 and 10

so both at full flow in top form are about similar anyway, with the slight edge to Paul on points. So dont come in with the full season stats where deron limped for the first month while he was playing, where he had no speed to get to the rim and no elevation on his jump for his shots, its what happens from now on is where we should compare them.

and yes Paul has better stats, and all the idiots who dont watch Paul and just hear about him will come in and say 'is it even a discussion' and 'paul by a mile', but is it really by such a margin that we say Paul will go down in history as the best pg ever and Deron will just be forgotten about, I dont think so

I hope your not talking about me, I pick CP but it is really close. DWill will be close with Paul for a long time.

madiaz3
01-28-2009, 10:28 PM
So the Jazz don't have the best PG, only the other guy that can hope to do more than contain him and potentially outplay him on every matchup. That is the second most desired position to be in besides having the best PG.

NYMetros
01-28-2009, 10:34 PM
I'm a huge Deron Williams fan. It's a very close debate between him and Chris Paul.
But basing who is better off of half of the season is pretty ignorant... specially when Deron hasn't even been all the way healthy.
Both of them have tremendous career statistics.

I think Paul runs an offense that lets him have more freedom though.
Not to say that Deron doesn't have freedom, but I do think that Chris Paul has the ball in his hands more often.
That helps contribute to better stats, more points, etc.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-28-2009, 10:48 PM
I think the gap between CP3 and Dwill is just a small/big as the gap between Wade and Kobe.

Theres problley 5 PG's i would take on my team before DWill

CP3
TP
CB
Baron Davis... When healthy.
DWill

So... 4.

RapsGuy23
01-28-2009, 10:50 PM
u got a crush on him?

AHHAHAHHAAH hahahhahaha. Priceless. The numbers never tell the who story. That being said CP3 is a better player than DWill

GspLAL
01-28-2009, 10:56 PM
I think the gap between CP3 and Dwill is just a small/big as the gap between Wade and Kobe.

Theres problley 5 PG's i would take on my team before DWill

CP3
TP
CB
Baron Davis... When healthy.
DWill

So... 4.

baron davis? are you on crack

jusscallmez
01-28-2009, 11:11 PM
Head to head though...Deron always steps up to Paul. He's just a bigger, stronger body. Williams owns Paul head to head

NYstateofMinD
01-28-2009, 11:19 PM
This isn't about your hobby playing with little kids... and CP and DWill will never score 100 on each other. But my logic is it doesn't make you a better player if your better head to head against one player and against the rest your not as great.
Im saying CP outperforms everybody he plays except DWill. But DWill doesn't outperform other PGs like CP does. I'd rather the player beating all PGs except one then the PG that is good against one but isn't as good against other point guards. And if you pick the player that is only good against one PG then ur stupid.
CP makes his team way better then DWill or anyone else in the league.
People STFU with the CP doesn't play defense, just because he is small doesn't mean he can't play defense. I watch him and he plays good defense....

OK big guy, I don't play against little kids im 19 and play against older people and always have. Why don't you bring up stats instead of riding CP's ****. Who is to say Deron doesn't do well against other PGs? Have you seen him play? When they played in the Western Conference Finals against the Spurs in 07 he was playing great against them(30+ pts 9 ***) owning Tony Parker who is a top 5 pg. He doesn't need to dominate offensively all the time he has a team that he gets involved. Basically CP has the ball in his hands all the time in a quick tempo of course his stats are going to be a little better, and even when healthy their stats are relatively close. If he can't play well against CP then he obviously is not the clear cut better one.

NYstateofMinD
01-28-2009, 11:21 PM
Also I love how everyone who is saying DWills is bigger, is using that as an excuse against DWills. So when Shaq was bigger an more dominant, did that mean we should look at Shaq and give him less creditability due to his size?

codes238
01-28-2009, 11:22 PM
you dont need numbers to prove it, it was never really fair to deron to compare him to chris paul, williams is a great point guard, he'll probably end up being a 10-time all-star and a hall of famer... its just that chris paul is a once in a generation point guard and will go down as one of the top 10 or 20 players to ever play in this league... you cant really argue against any of this if you actually watch the NBA or unless youre a crazed ustah jazz fan...

having said all of this people need to realize how good d-will is too, he is EASILY the second best point guard in the league right now! sorry billups, derrick rose, rondo and harris, but its not even close...

3lite-Raptors
01-28-2009, 11:29 PM
cp3 is the best pg in the league

NO DOUBT

andybauer91
01-28-2009, 11:38 PM
who is actually arguing that chris paul is not better than deron williams?

Kyle916
01-29-2009, 12:51 AM
who is actually arguing that chris paul is not better than deron williams?

I am.

I posted this earlier...

Lets look at the 2007-2008 season:

Here are Chris Paul and Deron Williams' Floor Time Statistics for that year (both were healthy):

Paul:
-Min: 75%
-+/-: +479
-Off: 104.5
-Def: 96.9
-Net48: +7.7
-W: 54
-L: 23
-Win %: 70.1%

Williams:
-Min: 77%
-+/-: +423
-Off: 107.7
-Def: 101.1
-Net48: +6.6
-W: 51
-L: 30
-Win %: 63%

Based on those statistics, they were both similarly affective to their teams. Paul is only slightly better, but using these statistics, Williams was greatly more important to his team than Paul in 06-07, in 05-06 Williams was slightly more important again.

Looking at that, it shows that Williams has a better impact on his team.

These numbers are found on 82games.com

Fire&Ice2&33
01-29-2009, 01:29 AM
Yea CP3 is better,but Deron Williams is having a bad season because his team isnt doing nethang

codes238
01-29-2009, 03:10 AM
I am.

I posted this earlier...

Lets look at the 2007-2008 season:

Here are Chris Paul and Deron Williams' Floor Time Statistics for that year (both were healthy):

Paul:
-Min: 75%
-+/-: +479
-Off: 104.5
-Def: 96.9
-Net48: +7.7
-W: 54
-L: 23
-Win %: 70.1%

Williams:
-Min: 77%
-+/-: +423
-Off: 107.7
-Def: 101.1
-Net48: +6.6
-W: 51
-L: 30
-Win %: 63%

Based on those statistics, they were both similarly affective to their teams. Paul is only slightly better, but using these statistics, Williams was greatly more important to his team than Paul in 06-07, in 05-06 Williams was slightly more important again.

Looking at that, it shows that Williams has a better impact on his team.

These numbers are found on 82games.com

all this proves is that you dont have a life and you havent seen a whole ot of basketball the past couple of years...

Kyle916
01-29-2009, 04:31 AM
all this proves is that you dont have a life and you havent seen a whole ot of basketball the past couple of years...

How about I actually know what I'm talking about.

Why are you accusing me of having no life? Did I hurt your feelings?

valade16
01-29-2009, 07:21 AM
The problem with using 2007's stats, or stats from last year or 2 years ago is that they are both young players who are improving. Paul has steadily improved his game. It's ironic to me that everyone talks about how much bigger and stronger Williams is and yet Paul seems to consistently out-rebound him.

Paul scores more, rebounds more, assists more, shoots a higher percentage, steals more, and this year his team is doing better.

yeah Williams does better against Paul, but play that out for the season and that means he'd go 4-78 where as Paul would go 78-4 by beating all the other point guards...

Which would YOU rather have?

Mckphins
01-29-2009, 07:38 AM
I just ordered a chris paul top:D. Just to shed some ligt on the topic

chicagowhitesox
01-29-2009, 11:29 AM
is there anyone that actually argues williams is better? paul is the consensus best pg in the nba these days by far.

fatpat1116
01-29-2009, 12:11 PM
im not sayin one or the other is better but just to throw it out there the jazz have been pretty banged up all year boozer kirelenko ect. not just d williams

fatpat1116
01-29-2009, 12:11 PM
and if i had to pick im taking deron

DrDEADalready
01-29-2009, 12:14 PM
and if i had to pick im taking deron


Now this guy knows what he's talking about :D

Your the man.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-29-2009, 01:07 PM
baron davis? are you on crack

BD is a beast and almost unstoppable when he's healthy... he has a similar build as DWill, and BD actually uses his size, posting smaller PG's do, something I have yet to see Willie do.

Vinny642
01-29-2009, 04:02 PM
I did all my arguing in this im done but I will end this saying CP and DWill will be the two best PGs for a while.

madiaz3
01-29-2009, 04:06 PM
No one is really arguing that Deron is better than CP3, but to say it isn't even close is a silly and uneducated statement.

DrDEADalready
01-29-2009, 04:08 PM
^ I am arguing it. :D

Kyle916
01-29-2009, 04:45 PM
No one is really arguing that Deron is better than CP3, but to say it isn't even close is a silly and uneducated statement.

It's close.

jimbobjarree
01-29-2009, 04:59 PM
its very close, idiots come in here probably never even seeing Deron play and just brand CP3 miles ahead of Deron just cus they heard ESPN say he's good. If CP3 wasnt around everyone would be raving about Deron with the stats he has been putting up in the last couple of games, and be saying he would go down in history as the best PG ever...CP3 has the edge, but not by far, only in the points scoring department.

The Ooh Child
01-29-2009, 05:08 PM
I had no idea this was even up to debate. Deron is a stud, but c'mon. CP3 all day any day

Kyle916
01-29-2009, 05:18 PM
its very close, idiots come in here probably never even seeing Deron play and just brand CP3 miles ahead of Deron just cus they heard ESPN say he's good. If CP3 wasnt around everyone would be raving about Deron with the stats he has been putting up in the last couple of games, and be saying he would go down in history as the best PG ever...CP3 has the edge, but not by far, only in the points scoring department.

Agreed; but number-wise, Paul is ahead, but Williams has been more important to the Jazz than Paul has been to the Hornets.

I'm going with Williams.

bballer89
01-29-2009, 05:19 PM
im not sayin one or the other is better but just to throw it out there the jazz have been pretty banged up all year boozer kirelenko ect. not just d williams


The hornets have had their share of injuries as well... i think West and Chandler have missed time. But not as much time as the Jazz starters or anyone on the jazz, not one player on the jazz has played in every game this year to where the hornets have had paul, butler, posey play in all games and west hase missed 5 games to boozers 20+.

On the rebounding note... At the center spot Chandler is a little bit better rebounder than Okur, Boozer is better rebounder than West, Ak-47 is a better rebounder than Stojakovic and Utah's bench is better at rebounding than New Orleans. It is hard to rebound when the frontcourt has 3 great rebounders compared to 2. I also believe Paul goes for rebounds more often to where Deron knows Boozer, Millsap, Ak or memo are going to get the board and Deron is waiting for the ball near the opposing teams 3-point line.

On topic.I think CP3 is the better player than D-Will right now but the gap is very small but an arguement can be made that D-Will is better.

Off topic. What team as a whole whould you rather have. . . Jazz roster or hornets roster, both are fully healthy. . . The jazz bench is better so i would have to go with the Jazz.

DrDEADalready
01-29-2009, 05:35 PM
^^ You'd have to be stupid to go with New orleans. Jazz have one of the deepest if not the Deepest bench in the league. almost everyone on the jazz roster is starter worthy.