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thesparky33
01-26-2009, 08:11 PM
Hollinger: It would be a huge mistake to leave Jefferson off the West roster.


456.

That's the most important number to remember as coaches select the All-Star reserves for both conference teams this week, because it's a huge reason why a player who isn't getting much support should absolutely, positively be on the team.

But that 456 figure? That's actually the key number in deciding the center position in the West.

It's the difference in minutes between Al Jefferson and Shaquille O'Neal, and it's a whopping figure. Jefferson has played 1,532 minutes for the Wolves, while O'Neal has seen only 1,076.

Jefferson, on the other hand, hasn't missed a game and plays 40 minutes every night.

The two players have virtually identical player efficiency ratings and rebound rates, with Shaq's superior TS percentage offset by Jefferson's far lower propensity for turnovers. They are similar players -- left-block, low-post dominators who command a double-team but can struggle at times defensively -- and the nine-game disparity in their records can be easily explained by the fact that only one of them plays with Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash.

The only major difference is that Jefferson is on the court 42 percent more often. Using O'Neal's average of 30 minutes per game, he's played 15 Shaq-games more than Shaq in the first half of the season -- that's out of a 42-game season. Project over a full year and the difference is 30 games.

So while it would be a hoot to have Shaq in Phoenix for the game, I don't think that's a good reason to exclude a player who is so abundantly more deserving. The coaches' long-standing bias against players with losing records is well known and has been taken to a ridiculous extent in the past few seasons, but it would be a huge mistake to leave Jefferson off the West roster.
- Hollinger, ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090126

JordansBulls
01-26-2009, 09:02 PM
I would put Al in over Shaq. The Suns already have a player in the game.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Shaq gotta go in. Its in Phoenix and Jefferson only scores more by like 5 points and rebounds more by 2-3 while playing about 8 more minutes so if they played the same minutes, they would get similar stats

Sport
01-26-2009, 09:10 PM
Shaq gotta go in. Its in Phoenix and Jefferson only scores more by like 5 points and rebounds more by 2-3 while playing about 8 more minutes so if they played the same minutes, they would get similar stats

Thats a piss poor to look at it IMO.

Hellcrooner
01-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Hollinger = whatever i have to write to piss of Lakers fan.

The secret agenda isJefferson in PAU out.

GCOOKIE7
01-26-2009, 09:47 PM
Shaq gotta go in. Its in Phoenix and Jefferson only scores more by like 5 points and rebounds more by 2-3 while playing about 8 more minutes so if they played the same minutes, they would get similar stats

The only difference is that Shaq can't and doesn't play those minutes. Should we really look at what someone can do rather than what they have done?

GCOOKIE7
01-26-2009, 09:52 PM
and by the way... Scarlet has some DSL!

JordansBulls
01-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Hollinger = whatever i have to write to piss of Lakers fan.

The secret agenda isJefferson in PAU out.

:confused:


Forward: Pau Gasol, Lakers. The other obvious pick at forward in the West, Gasol has done all the usual things he did in Memphis, but the move back to his natural power forward spot has allowed him to show off his variety of skills and subjected him to fewer beatings around the basket at the defensive end. As the clear second star on the conference's best team, it would be unprecedented for him to be excluded.

Hellcrooner
01-26-2009, 09:56 PM
^this journalist is putting laker team and lakers players down constantly and disminishing their good victories and overeacting to their loses.

He would anything possible to hurt lakers.

Chronz
01-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Shaq gotta go in. Its in Phoenix and Jefferson only scores more by like 5 points and rebounds more by 2-3 while playing about 8 more minutes so if they played the same minutes, they would get similar stats

That would be a true statement IF Shaq was capable of playing those minutes if needed, but Shaq looks physically drained if he were forced to and thus lowering his impact and stats. I still say its close and that Shaq's intangible worth as a winner make it a hard choice.

Chronz
01-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Hollinger = whatever i have to write to piss of Lakers fan.

The secret agenda isJefferson in PAU out.
Dont act foolish

GCOOKIE7
01-26-2009, 10:03 PM
Dont act foolish

Don't worry... he's having a bad day.

Lakersfan2483
01-26-2009, 10:10 PM
Shaq should definitely make the all-star team, he's been playing some good basketball for Phoenix.... As far as Jefferson, he's definitely putting up all-star type numbers, but it's hard for him to make it over Shaq because Phx. has a winning record and O'neal is one of the main reasons for it.

Compare the West's starting center Yao Ming's numbers with Shaq's numbers:

Yao Ming's numbers: 20ppg and 10rpg, 1.7bpg in 33mins. per contest

Shaq's numbers are very close: 18ppg and 9rpg, 1.5bpg in 30mins. per contest (very impressive considering he is almost 37 yrs. old)

GCOOKIE7
01-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Shaq should definitely make the all-star team, he's been playing some good basketball for Phoenix.... As far as Jefferson, he's definitely putting up all-star type numbers, but it's hard for him to make it over Shaq because Phx. has a winning record and O'neal is one of the main reasons for it.

*Oneal's numbers are impressive considering his age, 18ppg and 9rpg while shooting .60pct from the field., definitely all-star worthy as a backup up center.

I could name a few other players on that team that are big reasons for that record.
I know this doesn't matter but the T-Wolves have the best record in 09 so far.

LeonFSU
01-26-2009, 10:20 PM
Shaq's stats maybe slightly lower than Al's in pts. and rebs., but his overall impact on both ends of the court is greater than Jefferson's. Al is the best and only reliable option on a losing team, where as Shaq is the best player on a winning team that has a lot of other options, but must go through Shaq if they want to win.

I think, just considering Shaq's age and durability concerns, that Phoenix would prefer to play through Nash and Stoudemire predominatly, but they can't because Shaq is proving himself to be the best Sun. Jefferson is clearly the best T-Wolf and always the number one option. He averages 19.2 shot attempts to Shaq's 11, and Shaq's stats are still pretty close.

Jefferson's stats are better in a few offensive categories (not FG%), but I don't think the West should have an all-star from a team other than the 9 playoff contenders unless they are clearly outperforming everyone else at their respective positions. In Al's case he is not, and his team only has 15 wins in 42 games...

Lakersfan2483
01-26-2009, 10:24 PM
I could name a few other players on that team that are big reasons for that record.
I know this doesn't matter but the T-Wolves have the best record in 09 so far.

O'neal has been a significant player on Phx. this season, he's been very consistent and his impact is greater then just pure stats. (I just wanted to show his stats compared to Yao's, but stats alone don't measure a player's impact)

Korman12
01-26-2009, 10:31 PM
I agree with Hollinger in that Jefferson deserves the All-Star nod. Others may disagree, but I'm not one of those fans who thinks only good players on good teams deserve to go. There is already enough disparity between the popularity of teams in the NBA, the All-Star game doesn't need to rub it in the face of small-market teams (I doubt they do, but still).

The point is Al Jefferson is having a better statistical season at his position than most of players in the league. There may be a legitimate argument that his stats are only high because he's on a mediocre team, as for the case of Kevin Durant who I also believe deserves an All-Star nod. While that may be true, his efforts cannot be simply ignored because of that.

Whatever, it's your guy's take.

jetsfan28
01-26-2009, 10:34 PM
^this journalist is putting laker team and lakers players down constantly and disminishing their good victories and overeacting to their loses.

He would anything possible to hurt lakers.

You are incorrect. He said Gasol is an obvious pick to make the All-Star game. That alone goes against what you said.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-27-2009, 12:19 AM
Who you think should be in the ASG?

I think Shaq cuz he is still dominating while he is still old. and did you se the game vs wizards. 9/10 from the line. and he is 70% in the last 12 games

Jefferson is doing good but Shaq is still doing as good as him per 48 mins

still1ballin
01-27-2009, 12:22 AM
I hope its Shaq. I would love to see Kobe throw a lob to Shaq. It would make the crowd go crazy! He does deserve it too.

Duncan = Donkey
01-27-2009, 12:26 AM
shaq

what54!?
01-27-2009, 12:27 AM
shaq.

madiaz3
01-27-2009, 12:27 AM
shaq

NYstateofMinD
01-27-2009, 12:32 AM
Honestly I think they both deserve to go. I think the reserves SHOULD go as follows
Billups
Roy
Durant
Nowitzki
Shaq
Jefferson
D.Williams....see room for both, but no Gasol imo...or you can have all 3 and take out Durant(even though I think he is deserving)

cahawk
01-27-2009, 12:37 AM
SHAQ

Old guy just went for 29pts, 8rbds, 2ast's & 3 blocks.
And 9 of 10 Free throws.

Use Shaq as designated FT shooter. :>)

Chronz
01-27-2009, 12:37 AM
Nene should be in the voting as well and the whole per minute concept is based behind the idea that if need be the player could sustain his level of play. I have no doubt Shaq could IF these were the playoffs but its not that time yet and the reason Shaq's per minute numbers are so high is because the team is using him in a much easier amount of time to work with, the Cavs are doing the same with Big Z and Ben, both are having recovery years.

So it depends on what you value more, Al Jeffersons ability to play the full 48 minutes if need be or Shaqs winning play.

Then there is Nene, the guy who combines the traits of both but lacks the rebounding prowess and offensive load. Hes just a flat out brute in the paint with quick feet and his rebounding is improving by the game.

superkegger
01-27-2009, 12:43 AM
I thought Al Jeff should get in too. Until I saw Hollinger said so. Hollinger is the lead demon at the satanic empire that is ESPN.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 12:48 AM
Jefferson. He is a better player, and is a better center. 23/11/1.5 I will take that over any center outside Dwight.

superkegger
01-27-2009, 12:49 AM
Big Al, fo sho.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 12:50 AM
Who you think should be in the ASG?

I think Shaq cuz he is still dominating while he is still old. and did you se the game vs wizards. 9/10 from the line. and he is 70% in the last 12 games

Jefferson is doing good but Shaq is still doing as good as him per 48 mins

and Kevin Love leads the NBA in offensive rebounds per 48 minutes. So? Playing every game, not taking games off to rest, and playing 37 mpg means something. Shaq is the greatest center of all time in my opinion, but Jefferson is better now. He should be in the all star game.

djeller1139
01-27-2009, 12:50 AM
I think he deserves to go

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 12:51 AM
Shaq gotta go in. Its in Phoenix and Jefferson only scores more by like 5 points and rebounds more by 2-3 while playing about 8 more minutes so if they played the same minutes, they would get similar stats

I think Shaq would break down if he played every game, and played those minutes. There is the difference Hollinger pointed out. Per 48 is nice, means nothing.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 12:53 AM
Shaq should definitely make the all-star team, he's been playing some good basketball for Phoenix.... As far as Jefferson, he's definitely putting up all-star type numbers, but it's hard for him to make it over Shaq because Phx. has a winning record and O'neal is one of the main reasons for it.

Compare the West's starting center Yao Ming's numbers with Shaq's numbers:

Yao Ming's numbers: 20ppg and 10rpg, 1.7bpg in 33mins. per contest

Shaq's numbers are very close: 18ppg and 9rpg, 1.5bpg in 30mins. per contest (very impressive considering he is almost 37 yrs. old)

If you want to compare numbers, than Jefferson is the obvious choice. 23/11/1.6, 36 mpg.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 12:55 AM
I thought Al Jeff should get in too. Until I saw Hollinger said so. Hollinger is the lead demon at the satanic empire that is ESPN.

why?

YankeeFan89
01-27-2009, 12:59 AM
Shaq

Lakersfan2483
01-27-2009, 01:08 AM
Shaq's team has a winning record and he is performing at a high level, he should be on the all-star team.

Duncan = Donkey
01-27-2009, 01:21 AM
has to be shaq. 18 and 9 in 30 mins.

Hellcrooner
01-27-2009, 01:23 AM
shaq , he deserves to go with a flame and not with a fart, this may be the last time he does a season somehow worthy of it.

Duncan = Donkey
01-27-2009, 01:25 AM
If you want to compare numbers, than Jefferson is the obvious choice. 23/11/1.6, 36 mpg.

on a pretty bad team though.

by the end of the year shaq will be around 22 and 10 if he keeps playing at this level his playing at/

theimortalone
01-27-2009, 01:26 AM
Shaq!!!

mavwar53
01-27-2009, 01:30 AM
Shaq's team has a winning record and he is performing at a high level, he should be on the all-star team.

Since the t-wolves got rid of their crappy coach, since Christmas the wolves are now 12-4 they aint no joke while shaq has made a very good team just average, they are slow and he has slowed amare down and he can't play to his potential, Al deserves it way more than shaq's slow ***. Everyone on the suns is worse due to the fact they had to bring in a new coach to run an offense that suits shaq.

Duncan = Donkey
01-27-2009, 01:41 AM
Since the t-wolves got rid of their crappy coach, since Christmas the wolves are now 12-4 they aint no joke while shaq has made a very good team just average, they are slow and he has slowed amare down and he can't play to his potential, Al deserves it way more than shaq's slow ***. Everyone on the suns is worse due to the fact they had to bring in a new coach to run an offense that suits shaq.

so i guess allen iverson shouldnt be an all star because he has made a very good pistons team a very average pistons team.

thesparky33
01-27-2009, 04:01 AM
so i guess allen iverson shouldnt be an all star because he has made a very good pistons team a very average pistons team.

Well, everyone agrees that Iverson doesnt really deserve to be there...

showtime88
01-27-2009, 04:09 AM
Big Al's stats are typical all star numbers.. I do think he should be included in the west reserves.. Besides shaq doesn't even have his game all the time.. Al logged more minutes than shaq this season and is creating big numbers for this season.. And the T-Wolves are on a roll right now because of him.... They're 10-2 this month.. because of him....

Duncan = Donkey
01-27-2009, 04:52 AM
Big Al's stats are typical all star numbers.. I do think he should be included in the west reserves.. Besides shaq doesn't even have his game all the time.. Al logged more minutes than shaq this season and is creating big numbers for this season.. And the T-Wolves are on a roll right now because of him.... They're 10-2 this month.. because of him....

well if you play more minutes its pretty obvious that your going to get bigger numbers...... and there recent run isnt all because of all jefforson, other player s have been stepping there game up like randy foye, he's been playing awesome in this good streak.

anyway bottomline is, come all star game shaq will be there, guarenteed.

JayW_1023
01-27-2009, 06:59 AM
He deserves to be there, as well as Pau Gasol.

Amare Stoudemire doesn't deserve to be in the All-star game this year, not even as a reserve.

Bishnoff
01-27-2009, 06:59 AM
The All-Star Game is and should be a STAT-fest (pun intended – Amar’e didn’t get voted in because he is one of the top two Forwards in the West; he got voted in because he’s an exciting scorer). The players should typically be show-boating, offensive players who can produce a spectacle. Most viewers don’t want to see lock-down defense; the only defense played should be huge blocks and quick steals that lead to open-court dunks. For these reasons, Shaq should get the nod over Jefferson since Shaq always brings something different to the All-Star Game i.e. meaningless dance-offs with LeBron to please the crowd.

I can’t stand it how Yao gets voted in every season – he’s not the most exciting player and that’s why coaches give him limited minutes in All-Star Games (when he’s not injured). I’m not saying that he’s not the best Centre in the West, but the fact is that the best players rarely get voted in (unless they have 2 Billion fellow countrymen with less than 10 representatives to vote for i.e. China).

Even Team USA (apparently the USA’s best basketball players) took a while to gel and play well together; you can’t put a bunch of talented guys together once a season and expect proper basketball. The All-Star Game is only a score-fest because it can’t be anything else without adequate time for training, team chemistry, and playbooks.

Don’t place too much importance on who gets chosen and who doesn’t – it means nothing in the scheme of things.

LeonFSU
01-27-2009, 03:00 PM
Jefferson. He is a better player, and is a better center. 23/11/1.5 I will take that over any center outside Dwight.

Stats don't measure everything. Jefferson takes 8 more shots a game, because he is the only option in Minnesota. Plus his defense is horrendous. I am not saying Shaq's defense is great, but he is a waaaayyyyyy better man defender against virtually any center.

If Jefferson's D never improves, I really can't see Minnesota ever being a real contender if Al plays center and Kevin Love or somebody else plays power forward. He is just not physical enough on either end of the floor. Al is a better PF than Shaq, obviously since Shaq is not one, but that is it.

Al_Jefferson25
01-27-2009, 03:20 PM
al deserves to be in this game. yes i understand shaq would be playing for the home crowd. who cares. al is a beast and he faces triple teams every night and still puts up monster numbers. just because the wolves dont win many games should have nothing to do with it. its an all star game not an mvp game or winning teams game. i believe al is in the top 5-10 for big men he belongs in this game no doubt about it. he torched amare and shaq. gasol cant stop him garnett has a hard time with him he played well against duncan he belongs with this group of all star bigs

Hellcrooner
01-27-2009, 04:16 PM
when is Jeffersons contract running out? so he can sign with a contender and go back to beig a third or fourth option?

We will talk about his stats THEN

Kyle916
01-27-2009, 05:10 PM
when is Jeffersons contract running out? so he can sign with a contender and go back to beig a third or fourth option?

We will talk about his stats THEN

What?

Al Jefferson is one of the better Power Forwards in the league. How would he be a 3rd or 4th option?

thesparky33
01-27-2009, 09:30 PM
when is Jeffersons contract running out? so he can sign with a contender and go back to beig a third or fourth option?

We will talk about his stats THEN

He signed a huge contract extension last season, and Minnesota isnt letting him go for anything.

Also, there is no way he is a 3rd or 4th option on any team, or else that team isnt losing a game... ever.

jimbobjarree
01-27-2009, 09:35 PM
Big Al deserves to be in the allstar game, its a shame the Wolves have yet to put some decent players around him as he deserves to be in the playoffs. He and Love look like a pretty handy inside pair though

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 09:40 PM
Stats don't measure everything. Jefferson takes 8 more shots a game, because he is the only option in Minnesota. Plus his defense is horrendous. I am not saying Shaq's defense is great, but he is a waaaayyyyyy better man defender against virtually any center.

If Jefferson's D never improves, I really can't see Minnesota ever being a real contender if Al plays center and Kevin Love or somebody else plays power forward. He is just not physical enough on either end of the floor. Al is a better PF than Shaq, obviously since Shaq is not one, but that is it.

right, cause AJ has kept his current numbers during the last 20 games, in which Foye goes for 20 ppg, and Gomes 13 ppg, and Love near 12-10. However you would like to justify it is fine. Would he be better at PF? Maybe. But he is doing just fine at center. If you are so concerend about defense, what the hell is Amare Stoudemire doing anywhere near an all star team???

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 09:41 PM
when is Jeffersons contract running out? so he can sign with a contender and go back to beig a third or fourth option?

We will talk about his stats THEN

In 5 years, at which point he and Dwight Howard will be the clear cut best bigs in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2009, 09:43 PM
when is Jeffersons contract running out? so he can sign with a contender and go back to beig a third or fourth option?

We will talk about his stats THEN

better question. When does Bynums contract run out? He could be that 3rd option the Wolves need in a few years. It would be nice to move Big Al to PF, and have a dude clean the glass and pick up uncontested dunks.

thedfactor
01-27-2009, 09:55 PM
He's good enough, but sometimes that doesn't help.

WSU Tony
01-27-2009, 10:14 PM
Who you think should be in the ASG?

I think Shaq cuz he is still dominating while he is still old. and did you se the game vs wizards. 9/10 from the line. and he is 70% in the last 12 games

Jefferson is doing good but Shaq is still doing as good as him per 48 mins


shaq


shaq.


shaq


SHAQ

Old guy just went for 29pts, 8rbds, 2ast's & 3 blocks.
And 9 of 10 Free throws.

Use Shaq as designated FT shooter. :>)


Shaq


Shaq's team has a winning record and he is performing at a high level, he should be on the all-star team.


has to be shaq. 18 and 9 in 30 mins.


shaq , he deserves to go with a flame and not with a fart, this may be the last time he does a season somehow worthy of it.


Shaq!!!

You guys are wrong, I'll prove it.

Shaq - (per 36 minutes) 21 points, 10 rebounds, 59% FG
Big Al (per 36 minutes) 22 points, 10 rebounds, 49% FG

Now, I hear all the "shaq shoots better" arguments so I have another stat for you, mintues played. Al has played 1567 minutes compared to Shaq's 1113 minutes. THATS 40% MORE MINUTES PLAYED. I would take Al on my team over Shaq 100% of the time. Why would you want someone who has to sit out a game EVERY time you played back to back nights?

Al deserves to go, hands down. Anyone who can recognize a name will say Shaq, anyone who watches basketball and respects statistics over hollowed opinions will pick Jefferson.

yuns554
01-27-2009, 10:27 PM
You guys are wrong, I'll prove it.

Shaq - (per 36 minutes) 21 points, 10 rebounds, 59% FG
Big Al (per 36 minutes) 22 points, 10 rebounds, 49% FG

Now, I hear all the "shaq shoots better" arguments so I have another stat for you, mintues played. Al has played 1567 minutes compared to Shaq's 1113 minutes. THATS 40% MORE MINUTES PLAYED. I would take Al on my team over Shaq 100% of the time. Why would you want someone who has to sit out a game EVERY time you played back to back nights?

Al deserves to go, hands down. Anyone who can recognize a name will say Shaq, anyone who watches basketball and respects statistics over hollowed opinions will pick Jefferson.

um stats aren't everything
jefferson is the number one option on the team so he gets more chances to score while shaq has amare, nash, and j rich soo he gets less shot attempts

a bunch of you guys are saying that being on a losing team shouldn't matter but if you put jefferson on the spurs for example hes not gonna be putting up 20 and 10

hes a good player but i think shaq gets the nod on this one

IndyRealist
01-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Shaq only plays in 2/3 of the games. That's not particularly effective, if you can only help your team in two out of every three games.

LeonFSU
01-27-2009, 10:50 PM
You guys are wrong, I'll prove it.

Shaq - (per 36 minutes) 21 points, 10 rebounds, 59% FG
Big Al (per 36 minutes) 22 points, 10 rebounds, 49% FG

Now, I hear all the "shaq shoots better" arguments so I have another stat for you, mintues played. Al has played 1567 minutes compared to Shaq's 1113 minutes. THATS 40% MORE MINUTES PLAYED. I would take Al on my team over Shaq 100% of the time. Why would you want someone who has to sit out a game EVERY time you played back to back nights?

Al deserves to go, hands down. Anyone who can recognize a name will say Shaq, anyone who watches basketball and respects statistics over hollowed opinions will pick Jefferson.

Wow, great job proving it. I am not going to argue this anymore. I believe both guys should make the all-star team, but its bound to come down to one of them. Just because you think Al should make it doesn't mean everyone who picks Shaq doesn't watch basketball and only wants him because he has name recognition.

Some of the arguments for Shaq are biased and unjustified: his age, the excitement he'd bring, the all-star game being in Phoenix, etc. I think Shaq should go because of his play, period. And by the way, of course any sane person would choose Al over Shaq now if you are building a franchise, but if you need one player for a playoff run, right now, and you choose Al, you'd be crazy and your team would be not be better than it'd be with Shaq. Not that that is necessarily relevant to choosing a player for the all-star game, but its the truth.

LeonFSU
01-27-2009, 10:54 PM
right, cause AJ has kept his current numbers during the last 20 games, in which Foye goes for 20 ppg, and Gomes 13 ppg, and Love near 12-10. However you would like to justify it is fine. Would he be better at PF? Maybe. But he is doing just fine at center. If you are so concerend about defense, what the hell is Amare Stoudemire doing anywhere near an all star team???

I don't think Amare should make the all-star team because of his defense. I certainly didn't vote for him. You have to take defense into account; its not all about offensive stats.

thesparky33
01-28-2009, 12:08 AM
um stats aren't everything
jefferson is the number one option on the team so he gets more chances to score while shaq has amare, nash, and j rich soo he gets less shot attempts

a bunch of you guys are saying that being on a losing team shouldn't matter but if you put jefferson on the spurs for example hes not gonna be putting up 20 and 10

hes a good player but i think shaq gets the nod on this one

If you put Jefferson on the Suns with Nash, J-Rich, and Amare... good Lord!

Jefferson's efficiency is better than Shaq's even if you inflate Shaq's stats to make up for his lesser amount of minutes.

This is a no-brainer for me.

Hawkeye15
01-28-2009, 12:38 AM
I don't think Amare should make the all-star team because of his defense. I certainly didn't vote for him. You have to take defense into account; its not all about offensive stats.

Well, then Camby and Bowen should be there. Got me, my bad

LeonFSU
01-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Well, then Camby and Bowen should be there. Got me, my bad

Wow, why even bother posting this?

Hawkeye15
01-28-2009, 02:58 PM
Wow, why even bother posting this?

because clearly defense is what determines it for you.

LeonFSU
01-28-2009, 03:04 PM
because clearly defense is what determines it for you.

No you just made that up. I never said that. Defense is a factor. Not the determining one. Camby? Bowen? Even if it was an all defensive team they shouldn't go, come on, thats just ******** to even post.

bosoxkid429
01-31-2009, 10:17 PM
shaq only plays 2-3 times a week, jefferson plays EVERY GAME!!! the only games the suns are in are the ones shaq plays in

Hawkeye15
02-01-2009, 05:30 AM
No you just made that up. I never said that. Defense is a factor. Not the determining one. Camby? Bowen? Even if it was an all defensive team they shouldn't go, come on, thats just ******** to even post.

I may have gone overboard, but read your comments above. If Jefferson, a 22-11 player for 120 games isn't an all star, then what else does he need to do?? Cause the best defenders in the low post don't do that on the other end, outside Howard.

Kyle916
02-01-2009, 07:40 AM
He deserved it.

NyYaNkEeS 91
02-01-2009, 10:54 AM
AJ is a stud

JJ81
02-01-2009, 01:19 PM
Bynum > Big Al

To bad he's injured now though.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2009, 03:35 PM
Bynum > Big Al

To bad he's injured now though.

comical.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2009, 03:38 PM
since the snub, 2 games. 34/12/4. And what is funny, is all those coaches that didn't vote for him, work up a plan to stop him without doubling, then 6 minutes in, start sending everyone at him.

WSU Tony
02-01-2009, 04:19 PM
Bynum > Big Al

To bad he's injured now though.


Of course he is..... because you only watch the lakers!



Wow, great job proving it. I am not going to argue this anymore. I believe both guys should make the all-star team, but its bound to come down to one of them. Just because you think Al should make it doesn't mean everyone who picks Shaq doesn't watch basketball and only wants him because he has name recognition.

Some of the arguments for Shaq are biased and unjustified: his age, the excitement he'd bring, the all-star game being in Phoenix, etc. I think Shaq should go because of his play, period. And by the way, of course any sane person would choose Al over Shaq now if you are building a franchise, but if you need one player for a playoff run, right now, and you choose Al, you'd be crazy and your team would be not be better than it'd be with Shaq. Not that that is necessarily relevant to choosing a player for the all-star game, but its the truth.

I just proved to you Al's play is superior to Shaq's play but you still choose Shaq? Wouldn't that be biased and unjustified?