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Hellcrooner
01-23-2009, 04:48 AM
Everytime there is a player who SHOULD be starting but coach decides to use him as 6th or 7 men (example, Millsap when boozer was healthy) People start making the folowing excuses.

Yes player 1 is better than player b but well we need some scoring from teh bench.

Oh yes player a is very good but we need someone to lead the second unit.


Oh he can be the ( Ginobili/Posey(celtics) etc..) of our team.



Ok, if its so important to ahve a great paleyr on teh bench to run with the second unit and score....

Why not bench the star player of your team? like KObe, Lebron, Kg etc.... They would be great torching other teams second units isnt it? and woudl score a whole lot isnt it? and would run perfectly the secodn unit isnt it?


Stupid isnt it?

THen again why the hell does a player , like MIllsap or Calderon last year have to settle to be a bench player when he could be starting above someone else tht is not ebtter then him and its starting.

Id much rather have Both Millsap and Boozer on the courtthan have Memo out there...

GoatMilk
01-23-2009, 05:01 AM
because when Boozer was healthy he was putting up the same exact numbers as Millsap. whats wrong with that? at the time no one new Millsap would be that good.
And why are you complaining about Calderon? He started more than Ford last season and averaged more minutes.

anyways, some guys like coming off the bench. like Manu likes it.

Hellcrooner
01-23-2009, 05:04 AM
^ Calderon only started when Tj went down with an injury, Had that injury not happened he woudl be playign somewhere else now, and probably being the reserve of abnother sucker because once you get the Reserve label you can hardly take it off.

cambovenzi
01-23-2009, 05:23 AM
to try and separate the talent up a bit i guess.
much like in hockey maybe?
you dont need all your best scorers playing at the same time.

Wilson
01-23-2009, 08:58 AM
Id much rather have Both Millsap and Boozer on the courtthan have Memo out there...

I don't know. Memo stretches the defense more for the inside man.


to try and separate the talent up a bit i guess.
much like in hockey maybe?
you dont need all your best scorers playing at the same time.

Exactly. You need some balance.

carlo4444
01-23-2009, 09:16 AM
meh



http://raptorcore.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/new.jpg

NYstateofMinD
01-23-2009, 10:39 AM
You need some balance scoring wise. For Calderon's case he should have started and even the coach wanted him to, but it was TJ Ford's ego and potential chemistry problems that made Calderon sort of bench himself for the sake of the team. For Manu's case he usually plays starter minutes anyway and does better off the bench. It's all about winning games no matter who starts or not. Look at Odom in LA, Radmonovic or Walton start over him even though he is leagues above them both.

Joshtd1
01-23-2009, 10:45 AM
Manu comes off the bench because if he didnt, there would be no one on the 2nd unit who could really score for themselves, or create looks for other players. I cant imagine seeing TP/Manu/TD all on the bench, because our offense would really really really struggle. However, with Manu coming off the bench, once TD/TP go, he is allowed to be #1 option.

DrDEADalready
01-23-2009, 10:50 AM
What's up with all of the Isn't its?

Anyway. Good question. Theres alot of teams that bench a starter type player to lead the second unit. And if you have a Deep bench like the Jazz. LA, Spurs ect. You can do that. AK was starting last year. and now he's coming off the bench. And he's doing awesome coming off the bench. But he's still getting 30 + min a game. so putting a player on the bench thats pretty much a starter. you don't really have a lack of talent out there when your bench comes in.

How many teams out there Once there bench comes in. they give up a lead. or play bad. So thats why Jazz, Lakers, Spurs ect. 2nd unit is so effective.

blackjack_119
01-23-2009, 11:45 AM
Player 1 is better than player b but well we need some scoring from the bench.
To try to explain it, lets try to take the stigma of "coming off the bench" away... If you are a coach, you want to utilize all of your players to the best of their ability. Hypothetically, say you have a talented scorer who does little else... If he is your best scorer... you put him in the starting lineup... if he is your second best, he is probably still in your second lineup.

If he is your third or fourth option on the team, you have to ask yourself if the scorer will get more shots as the fourth option as a starter, or the first option off of the bench.

Since you do watch Blazer games, I can use their team as an analogy. Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez are both more talented than Nicolas Batum. Both players, however, are primarily scorers. With most of the shots in the starting unit going to Roy, Aldridge, Oden and Blake, you would prefer to have a player who doesn't need to shoot to benefit the team as the starting SF... which is why Batum's defense and rebounding are thought to be more desirable in the starting unit than Fernandez's or Outlaw's scoring.

Wilson
01-23-2009, 12:07 PM
Manu comes off the bench because if he didnt, there would be no one on the 2nd unit who could really score for themselves, or create looks for other players. I cant imagine seeing TP/Manu/TD all on the bench, because our offense would really really really struggle. However, with Manu coming off the bench, once TD/TP go, he is allowed to be #1 option.

I always thought part of it was for back-court chemistry as well. If Manu comes in when Parker goes out, then it allows him to control the ball and attack. With Parker in there, Manu has to play more of a 'spot-up' role.

Wilson
01-23-2009, 12:08 PM
To try to explain it, lets try to take the stigma of "coming off the bench" away... If you are a coach, you want to utilize all of your players to the best of their ability. Hypothetically, say you have a talented scorer who does little else... If he is your best scorer... you put him in the starting lineup... if he is your second best, he is probably still in your second lineup.

If he is your third or fourth option on the team, you have to ask yourself if the scorer will get more shots as the fourth option as a starter, or the first option off of the bench.

Since you do watch Blazer games, I can use their team as an analogy. Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez are both more talented than Nicolas Batum. Both players, however, are primarily scorers. With most of the shots in the starting unit going to Roy, Aldridge, Oden and Blake, you would prefer to have a player who doesn't need to shoot to benefit the team as the starting SF... which is why Batum's defense and rebounding are thought to be more desirable in the starting unit than Fernandez's or Outlaw's scoring.

Good write up! :clap:

Hellcrooner
01-23-2009, 12:52 PM
Blazer is not a good example because you could start BOTH Rudy and Outlow since both of them are better than Batum AND blake and you would still have scorers on the bench in Bayless, Webster and Frye.....

And just for the sake of it, i think the "options" in Portland should be Aldrige FIRST, Roy SECOND, Rudy THIRD, oden FOURTH ( since he stillhas to polish a lot his game)

You read it right Aldrige shoudl eb the first option, you know? Quality bigs hae a higer % than Guards so its better to feed them the ball.

D-Leethal
01-23-2009, 12:57 PM
If you can manage the game, defend and stay in it, and than bring a guy like Manu or JTerry or Barbosa in who can score in bunches, it gives you a great chance to build a lead and than maintain it with your starting 5

Hellcrooner
01-23-2009, 12:57 PM
ANd now another though about the " second unit needs a scorer, you dont need yuor 5 best players in the starting unit".


Paxon,jordan, pippen,Grant,Cartwright no one on their bench was better than any of them, phil didnt bench any of them.

Fisher,Kobe, Fox, Horry, Shaq, no one on the bench was better than them.

Magic, Scott, Worhty, Ac green ( or Rambis earlier), Kareem, no one on the bench was better than them until they signed Woolridge wich wasnt effective at all at the side of worhty and so he was benched.

Thomas, Dumars, Aguirre, Rodman, Lambieer, no one on the bench was better than those...

etc etc etc

JordansBulls
01-23-2009, 01:01 PM
To try to explain it, lets try to take the stigma of "coming off the bench" away... If you are a coach, you want to utilize all of your players to the best of their ability. Hypothetically, say you have a talented scorer who does little else... If he is your best scorer... you put him in the starting lineup... if he is your second best, he is probably still in your second lineup.

If he is your third or fourth option on the team, you have to ask yourself if the scorer will get more shots as the fourth option as a starter, or the first option off of the bench.

Since you do watch Blazer games, I can use their team as an analogy. Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez are both more talented than Nicolas Batum. Both players, however, are primarily scorers. With most of the shots in the starting unit going to Roy, Aldridge, Oden and Blake, you would prefer to have a player who doesn't need to shoot to benefit the team as the starting SF... which is why Batum's defense and rebounding are thought to be more desirable in the starting unit than Fernandez's or Outlaw's scoring.

Couldn't have said it better.