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View Full Version : Dunn Value Down - Worth the Risk?



BravoFan3736
01-19-2009, 07:23 PM
Chico Harlan of the Washington Post was told by an agent Monday that believes Adam Dunn "will get a max of $5MM per year."

"Anything more than that and I'd be surprised," added the unnamed agent. Dunn is reportedly still seeking a four-year, $56MM deal. Harlan notes that there are no big market teams in the running and he's highly unlikely to get his desired figures. "That's why Dunn just might end up in Washington, the one team that unequivocally wants the guy," the report concludes.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Lady's Man
01-19-2009, 07:26 PM
5 mill/year? year right

Zaunnie
01-19-2009, 07:43 PM
Sign adam dunn already for ****s sake

jwn0303
01-19-2009, 07:45 PM
What cuss word could you have possibly used there for it to actually make sense? That just wasn't even necessary.

flea
01-19-2009, 07:53 PM
****'s sake, it's a funny phrase

jwn0303
01-19-2009, 07:58 PM
****'s sake, it's an ignorant phrase

fixed

Lady's Man
01-19-2009, 08:23 PM
for ****s sake what the hell is wrong with u lad

jwn0303
01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
I just don't see the humor in saying a cuss word that doesn't even make sense being used that way.

michaelb2254
01-19-2009, 08:34 PM
I just don't see the humor in saying a cuss word that doesn't even make sense being used that way.

but thats why it's teh FUNNNAAAYYYYYY

baseballs14d
01-19-2009, 08:38 PM
maybe we should just change this thread name to "Cuss words and how to use them" anyway back on subject If we can get Dunn around that price it should be a no brainer for Atlanta.

laxman1017
01-19-2009, 08:57 PM
Agreed. I hear the arguement that there are viable options out there besides Dunn, but at the end of the day we need power and productivity. In Dunn, you KNOW what you will get. With the prospect of NOT having to give up draft picks. I would say this really is as baseball14d said....a NO BRAINER. $5mil???? Come on.

Slash
01-19-2009, 09:02 PM
Technically, his "value" hasn't changed. The price to sign him may have.

jdiddy24
01-19-2009, 09:28 PM
one year / $5M... there is no one that can argue that being a bad signing.... $5M for one year, let him walk and get a Type A pick next offseason, and call up Heyward if he is ready... no reason at all not to sign him for that... That is also cheaper than what Nady will get and he will provide more offense and not cost us any prospects.

HCo HERO
01-24-2009, 01:59 AM
I think Dunn and Roberts are the no brainer's to finish our offseason. We should offer Dunn a 1 yr 7-8mil deal, if he walks take the picks.

Then Offer 1 to choose from each group for Roberts.

Group A: Schaefer, Gorkys

Group B: Jo Jo, Morton, Prado

Group C: Boyer, Acosta, Anderson, Blanco

Try to extend Roberts contract but if not we would have 2 1st round and 2
1st comp picks. We would have both of their money coming off the books, so 2 things.

1) Use money to lock up Hudson and chipper

2) Use money for type A free agent, we can afford to lose a draft pick when we have 4 other before the second round.


These two players gives us a chance for '09 but doesn't hurt our future, it really almost makes our future better.

Not to mention what young talent Kelly could get us.

howiend
01-24-2009, 02:36 AM
Great thoughts HCo Hero. I don't see any way Dunn signs for only 5mill. If we could get him for even 8 mill, I like a 3 yr contract. This provides some protection in case franky doesn't pop back. Also, I think Chipper would be so much better with dunn hitting behind him. I say set up an appointment with dunn and offer 3 yr 25mill.

jdiddy24
01-24-2009, 02:36 AM
I think Dunn and Roberts are the no brainer's to finish our offseason. We should offer Dunn a 1 yr 7-8mil deal, if he walks take the picks.

Then Offer 1 to choose from each group for Roberts.

Group A: Schaefer, Gorkys

Group B: Jo Jo, Morton, Prado

Group C: Boyer, Acosta, Anderson, Blanco

Try to extend Roberts contract but if not we would have 2 1st round and 2
1st comp picks. We would have both of their money coming off the books, so 2 things.

1) Use money to lock up Hudson and chipper

2) Use money for type A free agent, we can afford to lose a draft pick when we have 4 other before the second round.


These two players gives us a chance for '09 but doesn't hurt our future, it really almost makes our future better.

Not to mention what young talent Kelly could get us.

....or we could just sign Dunn and not worry about extending Roberts... because that is a lot of talent to give up for 1 year of Roberts, and if he walks... I honestly dont believe the comp picks would compare to what we gave up in term of prospects.

baseballs14d
01-24-2009, 03:04 AM
I think Dunn and Roberts are the no brainer's to finish our offseason. We should offer Dunn a 1 yr 7-8mil deal, if he walks take the picks.

Then Offer 1 to choose from each group for Roberts.

Group A: Schaefer, Gorkys

Group B: Jo Jo, Morton, Prado

Group C: Boyer, Acosta, Anderson, Blanco

Try to extend Roberts contract but if not we would have 2 1st round and 2
1st comp picks. We would have both of their money coming off the books, so 2 things.

1) Use money to lock up Hudson and chipper

2) Use money for type A free agent, we can afford to lose a draft pick when we have 4 other before the second round.


These two players gives us a chance for '09 but doesn't hurt our future, it really almost makes our future better.

Not to mention what young talent Kelly could get us.


I was talking to some people in the Orioles forum and asked if Morton and Prado for Roberts is fair they actually think we would be giving up too much for him with that. I really think that we will not trade Gorkys of Schafer alone for one year of anyone much less one of them plus others.

ecyrb912
01-24-2009, 10:31 AM
to get the picks for wouldnt the braves would have to offer arbitration? and if the next offseason is anything like this one i think he is more likely to accept than decline. and then the braves will have to actually pay him what he's worth, along with no draft picks.

Chipper
01-24-2009, 10:58 AM
I say offer Dunn $10M a year. 5 yrs, $50M . No body seems to want to go near that price and he's well worth it. Trade Morton, Prado and Sammons for Roberts and cash.

Roberts
Yunel
Chipper
Dunn
McCann
Francoeur
Kotchman
CF (Anderson, Blanco, Schafer, etc)

Matty
01-24-2009, 11:12 AM
What happens to Kelly Johnson in all this? What I figure is we only have about 8-10M left so it is either Roberts or Dunn (or pencil in a LF with a trade). If Roberts they move KJ to left and attempt to compete with speed and gap to gap hitting. If Dunn, KJ stays and you have your thunder, but no way both.

Brave4life
01-24-2009, 12:46 PM
I think Dunn and Roberts are the no brainer's to finish our offseason. We should offer Dunn a 1 yr 7-8mil deal, if he walks take the picks.

Then Offer 1 to choose from each group for Roberts.

Group A: Schaefer, Gorkys

Group B: Jo Jo, Morton, Prado

Group C: Boyer, Acosta, Anderson, Blanco

Try to extend Roberts contract but if not we would have 2 1st round and 2
1st comp picks. We would have both of their money coming off the books, so 2 things.

1) Use money to lock up Hudson and chipper

2) Use money for type A free agent, we can afford to lose a draft pick when we have 4 other before the second round.


These two players gives us a chance for '09 but doesn't hurt our future, it really almost makes our future better.

Not to mention what young talent Kelly could get us.

I think that those are all bad trade possibilities

1. Schafer and gorkys they are 2 of our top 10 prospects
2. Boyer, Acosta, Anderson, Blanco
Anderson is like a clone of roberts they both get 40 steels potential to hit 40+rbi

Anderson minor league stats
H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% SH
155 25 4 4 40 30 57 .314 .358 .405 .763 42 7 86% 8

major league stats

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
40 136 21 40 7 1 3 12 58 8 33 10 1 338 .426 .294

He has very good potential

3. prado, morton, jojo

prado had
3HR 33RBI .320avg obp .377

i dont really care if we get any picks out of roberts just sign dunn. Roberts is not a game changer

now that i look at anderson give him a shot.

rtgthree
01-24-2009, 12:58 PM
I think Dunn and Roberts are the no brainer's to finish our offseason. We should offer Dunn a 1 yr 7-8mil deal, if he walks take the picks.

No reason to have an "and" there. You need either Dunn or Roberts. Getting both is overkill, and then suddenly you have to trade Kelly Johnson. No reason to do that. Get Dunn or Roberts, and call it an offseason.


I really think that we will not trade Gorkys of Schafer alone for one year of anyone much less one of them plus others.

Agreed. I think the Braves are being very circumspect about trading anything valuable for a rental. If they do rent a player, they aren't likely to be giving up loads of talent.


to get the picks for wouldnt the braves would have to offer arbitration? and if the next offseason is anything like this one i think he is more likely to accept than decline. and then the braves will have to actually pay him what he's worth, along with no draft picks.

Arbitration contracts almost universally favor the team. That's why you see so many players decline arbitration, because they know they can do better on the open market. Even if next winter is another bad FA market, Roberts will still get paid a very fair price. Unless the player has a really bad season and the team doesn't really want him back, one-year arbitration contracts are generally VERY team-friendly deals. I would have no problem if Roberts accepted arbitration, got paid maybe $12-13 million for one more year, and then if he leaves the following winter, we still get draft picks.


I say offer Dunn $10M a year. 5 yrs, $50M . No body seems to want to go near that price and he's well worth it. Trade Morton, Prado and Sammons for Roberts and cash.

Again, you only need Dunn OR Roberts, and I don't think the Braves should go anywhere NEAR $50 million for Dunn. Even $10 million a year is pushing it, given Dunn's atrocious defense, and his "old player" skill set will be susceptible to early and precipitous decline. No way should we offer five years, and I wouldn't even touch $10 million AAV either.


Anderson is like a clone of roberts they both get 40 steels potential to hit 40+rbi...

Roberts is not a game changer

Right. Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

Brave4life
01-24-2009, 01:11 PM
No reason to have an "and" there. You need either Dunn or Roberts. Getting both is overkill, and then suddenly you have to trade Kelly Johnson. No reason to do that. Get Dunn or Roberts, and call it an offseason.



Agreed. I think the Braves are being very circumspect about trading anything valuable for a rental. If they do rent a player, they aren't likely to be giving up loads of talent.



Arbitration contracts almost universally favor the team. That's why you see so many players decline arbitration, because they know they can do better on the open market. Even if next winter is another bad FA market, Roberts will still get paid a very fair price. Unless the player has a really bad season and the team doesn't really want him back, one-year arbitration contracts are generally VERY team-friendly deals. I would have no problem if Roberts accepted arbitration, got paid maybe $12-13 million for one more year, and then if he leaves the following winter, we still get draft picks.



Again, you only need Dunn OR Roberts, and I don't think the Braves should go anywhere NEAR $50 million for Dunn. Even $10 million a year is pushing it, given Dunn's atrocious defense, and his "old player" skill set will be susceptible to early and precipitous decline. No way should we offer five years, and I wouldn't even touch $10 million AAV either.



Right. Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

Please explain me how anderson and roberts are not alike the only thing is the positions. Roberts is a proven mlb player, but Anderson has not let us down at all in the majors he has showed up and hit the ball.

anderson is younger 25
roberts is like 33 i think

SCREW ROBERTS WE DONT NEED HIM

SIGN DUNN
SIGN A. JONES
SIGN WILL OHMAN
LET HEYWARD. JONES. ANDERSON. DIAZ. SCHAFER FIGHT FOR STARTING CENTER FIELDER ONE OF THOSE WILL SUPRISE US.

unless rthgree lets just give up our prospects and we will get roberts. DONT LET GO OF OUR FARM LOOK AT THE F***ING RAYS. they kept them and made it to they world series.

Bravefan29
01-24-2009, 02:21 PM
Please explain me how anderson and roberts are not alike the only thing is the positions. Roberts is a proven mlb player, but Anderson has not let us down at all in the majors he has showed up and hit the ball.

anderson is younger 25
roberts is like 33 i think

SCREW ROBERTS WE DONT NEED HIM

SIGN DUNN
SIGN A. JONES
SIGN WILL OHMAN
LET HEYWARD. JONES. ANDERSON. DIAZ. SCHAFER FIGHT FOR STARTING CENTER FIELDER ONE OF THOSE WILL SUPRISE US.

unless rthgree lets just give up our prospects and we will get roberts. DONT LET GO OF OUR FARM LOOK AT THE F***ING RAYS. they kept them and made it to they world series.

Lets be realistic Heyward will not see the majors until 2010-11 and Diaz does not have the athletic ability to play CF so really the only internal options for CF are Schafer and Anderson.

Brave4life
01-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Lets be realistic Heyward will not see the majors until 2010-11 and Diaz does not have the athletic ability to play CF so really the only internal options for CF are Schafer and Anderson.

Its not like we need a proven major leaguer in CF its alright if we have a decent CF.

Anderson would be a great leadoff hitter lets give him a chance, he is so fast he would be like a jose reyes leading off. If you look at anderson minor league stats he once had 76 steels and he never has had below 40 steels except his first year at the miinors.

Anderson
Escobar
Jones
Dunn
Mcann
Francour
Kotchman
Johnson

that is a very good lineup Johnson batting 8th who has potential to be a 20 homer 70+ rbi guy

Chipper
01-24-2009, 03:05 PM
Its not like we need a proven major leaguer in CF its alright if we have a decent CF.

Anderson would be a great leadoff hitter lets give him a chance, he is so fast he would be like a jose reyes leading off. If you look at anderson minor league stats he once had 76 steels and he never has had below 40 steels except his first year at the miinors.

Anderson
Escobar
Jones
Dunn
Mcann
Francour
Kotchman
Johnson

that is a very good lineup Johnson batting 8th who has potential to be a 20 homer 70+ rbi guy

Who cares about potential! Look at Chuck James! They were comparing the guy to Tom Glavine and he was supposed to be a good #3. He's a bust and no longer a Brave. Charles Thomas, a bust. Dan Meyer, a bust. What a steal we got from the A's for Tim Hudson a few years back. If the player is good and you have backup specs to take over the prospect your trading in a few years, YOU ALWAYS DO THE DEAL. I don't mean any good SP's either. Those are hard to come by. So yes, I say put Anderson and Prado in a deal for Roberts.

btw has Orioles management changed? Because I remember 3 or 4 years ago we offered LaRoche and Giles for Roberts and Peter Angelos had that man crush on Roberts so the deal never got done. Is he still there? If so, we shouldn't even be discussing Roberts.

rtgthree
01-24-2009, 03:44 PM
Please explain me how anderson and roberts are not alike the only thing is the positions. Roberts is a proven mlb player, but Anderson has not let us down at all in the majors he has showed up and hit the ball.

anderson is younger 25
roberts is like 33 i think

SCREW ROBERTS WE DONT NEED HIM

SIGN DUNN
SIGN A. JONES
SIGN WILL OHMAN
LET HEYWARD. JONES. ANDERSON. DIAZ. SCHAFER FIGHT FOR STARTING CENTER FIELDER ONE OF THOSE WILL SUPRISE US.

Are you serious? Are you really serious? Josh Anderson has a career .718 minor-league OPS. Brian Roberts has a career .771 MAJOR-league OPS, and that figure is weighed down by some early seasons in his career when he didn't produce much. Last four seasons he's been over .800 three times and over .900 once. Anderson walked in less than 6% of his minor-league at-bats; Roberts has walked more than twice as much in the MAJORS. The last four years, Roberts' OBP (the most important skill for a leadoff man) has been above .375, which is excellent. Anderson has NEVER posted an OBP higher than .358 (at Richmond last year).

These two are not even close to the same player, and your suggestion is so ridiculous that I think it's safe to say the burden of proof is on you. There is absolutely no comparison here. At all.


unless rthgree lets just give up our prospects and we will get roberts. DONT LET GO OF OUR FARM LOOK AT THE F***ING RAYS. they kept them and made it to they world series.

I didn't say "let's just give up our prospects." I am saying we can afford to trade one or two of our dozens of good prospects to get Roberts. It will hardly even dent the system. The Rays had the luxury of being able to lose for a decade before they were ever any good. They had #1 and #2 overall picks since 1999. The Braves don't have that luxury. Fans are already reaching the end of their rope on patience, and the franchise needs to start turning things around or it risks losing its fan base. Won't do you any good if Heyward and Freeman get to the majors and the payroll has been slashed in half because they couldn't sell tickets in 2009 or 2010.


Anderson would be a great leadoff hitter lets give him a chance, he is so fast he would be like a jose reyes leading off. If you look at anderson minor league stats he once had 76 steels and he never has had below 40 steels except his first year at the miinors.

Now you're gonna compare Josh Anderson and Jose Reyes?! Wake up, man.


btw has Orioles management changed? Because I remember 3 or 4 years ago we offered LaRoche and Giles for Roberts and Peter Angelos had that man crush on Roberts so the deal never got done. Is he still there? If so, we shouldn't even be discussing Roberts.

Yes. Peter Angelos still owns the team, but when he hired Andy MacPhail as team president and GM, it was on the condition that ownership would quit meddling in the team's affairs. If MacPhail wants to trade Roberts (and it sounds like he might), Angelos isn't likely to get in the way.

vtgriff09
01-24-2009, 03:44 PM
I think that Roberts would be an excellent addition to the roster. Then you could move KJ to left and even consider bringing back Andruw to play CF. There is no way you offer 5 yrs 50 mill to Dunn. I wouldn't even consider anything above 2 yrs (if i was even considering Dunn, which i think is not a great fit to this lineup). I would prefer to add a speedy leadoff man to this lineup, and would even consider giving Roberts an extension. If Dunn has truely slipped to 5 million a year (which i think is complete crap...he will get atleast 8 million a year) then he could be a good short term investment. I don't see Dunn taking a one year offer though.

RTG.....i see you have jumped off of this Dunn bandwagon. AJ is a far wiser investment at the 400k price tag.

Imagine this positional breakdown:

c-mccann
1b- kotchman (whom i think people are undervalueing)
2b-roberts
ss- escobar
3b- chip
lf- kj
cf- aj
rf- frenchy

rotation:
lowe, vasquez, jj, kk, and jojo (you have to have one lefty in the rotation)

i know many will say glavine, but we better get a huge hometown bargain to bring him back

i would offer up morton, prado, and boyer for roberts....boyer is not clutch at all, i can't remember how many games he blew last yr (but he throws great in blowouts making him look like an attractive player)

rtgthree
01-24-2009, 03:50 PM
RTG.....i see you have jumped off of this Dunn bandwagon. AJ is a far wiser investment at the 400k price tag.

I haven't jumped off the Dunn bandwagon at all. I just wouldn't go five years for him because of his potential to decline in the future, and I wouldn't go more than about $10 million for him because I don't think the market is there for him. His defense is atrocious, as I note, but he remains a steal at $8 million per year for 2-3 years.

I'm not even going to argue whether Andruw is a wiser investment because it doesn't matter. They aren't mutually exclusive, and we need another outfielder besides Andruw anyway.

vtgriff09
01-24-2009, 03:54 PM
I am completely in your same boat on this rtg......roberts is an allstar 2b that can steal you up to 50 bases a year with a little pop. Anderson does not bring much power threat at all, and has shown no great consistency at the major league level. The fact that the braves used several other options in the OF last year over anderson was indicative of him as a player. I have watched Anderson play atleast 50 games in the past couple of years, and he is no brian roberts....or even close to jose reyes (that's comedical). I said a similar thing months ago that you did try to trash me on rtg, i said that the fanbase needs a group of players to suceed and we should be willing to trade one or two of our dozens of prospects (especially when prospects are unknown projected commodoties and you are getting known commodities in return) to get some extra help. We shouldn't sell our untouchables at all, but you don't go out and get Lowe, KK and Vasquez and then say we will just wait 3 yrs to see our bats develop. These are middle age pitchers with a shelf life quickly approaching (not to mention chip doing the same).....with the braves no longer being nationally televised via tbs, the fanbase needs to see some results (and an effort to be successful now) in order to retain future players and be successful in the future. Watch how quickly the Brewers opening is/was, they are investigating shopping several players now....the rays just got lucky and had a great run with all of those draft picks coming together at once. Get roberts.....go for AJ in the of......we would have plenty of depth to back it up out there too. The chance to win is now, with a couple of additions

rtgthree
01-24-2009, 03:59 PM
^^^To begin with, I don't remember trashing you on being willing to trade some prospects. I've always been in favor of being pretty aggressive this winter to put together a winning team. IIRC you mentioned some people like Juan Pierre, and in that case, no, I wouldn't not want to trade anything for crap players like him. But if we're getting a legitimate player like Brian Roberts, count me in.

Also, I vehemently disagree that the Rays "just got lucky." They have drafted excellently, and their player development machine is just beginning to get recognized appropriately. They are going to be very good for a very long time, and I don't think you do that by just getting lucky.

bravesfan22193
01-24-2009, 04:53 PM
Roberts for Morton/Reyes, Prado, and Boyer would be a great deal for us. We have depth in the starting rotation making Morton/Reyes expendable. Prado is blocked by Kelly and Boyer is nothing special. Roberts at second and kelly in left gives us very good defense in the infield which in turn makes Lowe and the other ground ball pitchers even better. Roberts defense has been in decline i think, didn't look up UZR or anything, but he still represents an improvement over kelly, and KJ is an above average defender in left. This gives us speed in the lineup, especially if anderson bats eighth and plays center, and a true proven lead off hitter. Let McCann hit fourth and a combination of Kotch/Frenchy/Kelly hit in the next three spots.

jmtapia
01-24-2009, 05:35 PM
Roberts for Morton/Reyes, Prado, and Boyer would be a great deal for us. We have depth in the starting rotation making Morton/Reyes expendable. Prado is blocked by Kelly and Boyer is nothing special. Roberts at second and kelly in left gives us very good defense in the infield which in turn makes Lowe and the other ground ball pitchers even better. Roberts defense has been in decline i think, didn't look up UZR or anything, but he still represents an improvement over kelly, and KJ is an above average defender in left. This gives us speed in the lineup, especially if anderson bats eighth and plays center, and a true proven lead off hitter. Let McCann hit fourth and a combination of Kotch/Frenchy/Kelly hit in the next three spots.

to bad it isnt for the Orioles. Morton and JoJo are going to have to show they could pitch at the MLB level before their names start to get thrown centerpieces for any player of Roberts quality.

Prado isnt blocked by anyone. He's a utility type guy, who can step up in case of an injury. Dont really see how he is blocked.

How could you say that Boyer isnt anything special??? Sure he might not be the next Gonzo or Smoltz coming out of our bullpen but Boyer has a huge arm that could help us a lot down there. Its clear that Boyer was over used last year and he wasnt able to respond all to favorably to the increased work load. I tend to side with the Rookie whom had 52 IP by the ASB. Cant really blame him for having is arm give out....at the time im pretty sure he was Top 3 in IP by relievers, right up there was RHP Manny Acosta as well.

2008 SPLITS

Pre ASB 52 IP 47 H 3 HR 45 SO .237 BA 3.93 ERA
Post ASB 19 IP 26 H 7 HR 22 SO .321 BA 11.17 ERA

Ill take those numbers from a Rookie any day of the week. With a full season behind him and a full ST ahead of him i think Boyer is a sleeper in our bullpen to have a great year. I myself havent ruled him out as being an early possibility to serve as our closer come 2010.

jmtapia
01-24-2009, 05:52 PM
:laugh:.... Anderson has **** on Roberts. Anderson wouldnt be able to make contact enough to be a good lead off hitter. Speed is one of those tools that you could only use when you put it in a position to help you out. Its a secondary tool. Anderson strikes out way to much to be a good lead off hitter.

Not only that but in his time at the MLB Level he has show that he cannot hit LHP.

63 AB .254/.299/.286/.585 OPS
140 AB .343/.392/.479/.871 OPS

Anderson is nothing more then a 4th OF whom could come in PR late in the game or give a player a day off every once in a while.



One Year Deals For 30+ Year Olds?
By Alex Walsh [January 24 at 4:47pm CST]

Bill Madden of the New York Daily News has an article up that talks about the lack of activity in the free agent market affecting older free agents like Bobby Abreu and Adam Dunn.

Madden cites an interesting prediction from an unnamed baseball executive near the end of his report. He writes:

The same executive predicted that most of the over-30 free agents left on the market will wind up having to settle for one-year deals "because, with all the uncertainty about the next couple of years, clubs just don't want to commit risky money on older players or players with injury histories."

while Abreu makes no sense... Dunn certainly would look that much better in a one year deal. Heck, Wren should be calling and offering a 2 year deal at around $17-19 Mill total. If we could some how stick Dunn in 1B we would be golden right now...his defense at 1B isnt anywhere as bad as in LF... of course we have Kotchman but man Dunn would look good in 1B.

Straight up speculation but what are the chances that we could sign Dunn put him at 1B and then look to move Kotchman + some pieces (solid bat and defense) for a OF bat???

jase218
01-24-2009, 10:25 PM
I am about sick and tired of people talking about moving Kotchman. I know he stunk it up last year as a Brave, but lets look at his relevant stats. 2007 was his first full year with the Angels. He was 24 years old that year. Lets look at 2007 stats and 2008 stats with the Angels. I don't feel his 2008 stats with the Braves are relevant for two reasons. One, I don't think he should have been counted on to produce in the situation he was brought in to. Two, if I'm not mistaken, his mother became ill (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2008/08/20/atlanta_braves_news.html). Some may say that is not an excuse, but I am almost 25 years old, and if I had to move to a new town, with people I didn't know, and my mother became ill, baseball would not be the first thing on my mind. So, back to the stats...

Year G AB R H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
07 137 443 64 131 28 14 74 53 43 .296 .372 .467 119 207
08* 100 373 47 107 24 12 54 18 23 .287 .327 .448 101 167
AVG 162 557 76 163 36 18 87 49 45 .292
***AVG = 162 game average***

Now, I do not know how to calculate the other stats with the data I have (sorry), but those look like pretty good numbers to me. Off the top of my head, they remind me of a Mark Grace/Todd Helton/Sean Casey (early years). I would be happy with that from him the rest of his career. We could have used a .291 BA guy last year.

Sorry to rant, but I like Kotchman, and lets give him a full season before we look to trade him for a guy that has hardly ever played 1B.

CrippledRam
01-24-2009, 10:35 PM
Great post Jace. And jm, I really can't see us flipping Kotch.

Braves14
01-24-2009, 10:51 PM
Yea, I'd really rather not move Kotchman. I live in Los Angeles, so the Angels are on just about every night so I got a chance to see him really develop as a hitter. Let me tell you, the kid can't hit. He didn't show it in Atlanta, but he has a short, compact swing and power to all sides. Sometimes, as with most young lefties, he gets a bit pull happy. It doesn't last long though.

He can be a very good hitter as he matures. I'd say putting up stats similar to Dale Murphy may not be that much of a stretch maybe without as much power potential. This yea he's going to show Braves fan just what he can do and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

Braves14
01-24-2009, 10:53 PM
Back to being on topic, I've wanted Dunn in Atlanta since Day 1 of the offseason. I think it just makes too much sense.

Brave4life
01-25-2009, 12:18 AM
Just sign
Dunn
Manny
Sheets
Ohman

we will be the favorites to win the world series line up would be lethal

Johnson
Escobar
Chipper
Manny
Dunn
Mcann
francour
Kotchman


rotation

sheets
lowe
vazquez
jurjjens
kawakami

Brave4life
01-25-2009, 12:27 AM
Back to being on topic, I've wanted Dunn in Atlanta since Day 1 of the offseason. I think it just makes too much sense.

I totally agree with you, he will be a 2-3 year guy until Heyward takes his spot. and he is a guy that improves your lineup alot. what are we waiting for just get him for 2/22 mill

off season checklist

sign dunn 2/22 11 mill a year
sign ohman 2/5 2.5 mill a year
sign A.jones 400,000 a year (drop him if he sucks in spring training)
Extend c.jones 3/30 mill

Jon93405
01-25-2009, 02:31 AM
Yea, I'd really rather not move Kotchman. I live in Los Angeles, so the Angels are on just about every night so I got a chance to see him really develop as a hitter. Let me tell you, the kid can't hit. He didn't show it in Atlanta, but he has a short, compact swing and power to all sides. Sometimes, as with most young lefties, he gets a bit pull happy. It doesn't last long though.

He can be a very good hitter as he matures. I'd say putting up stats similar to Dale Murphy may not be that much of a stretch maybe without as much power potential. This yea he's going to show Braves fan just what he can do and I'm going to enjoy watching it.

Think you meant "the kid can hit."

Dburch1102
01-25-2009, 12:41 PM
Sorry to intrude, since Im not a braves fan, but I saw this on the front page and figured Id throw in my 2 cents.

Its rumored, so take that for what you will, that Dunn is going to sign for a bout 5-10 mill.. for that guys 100 walks, great on base, and 40 home runs... you can over look the 200 K's and sign this guy. Anyone who signs him, especially at that price tag, is getting one of the steals of the offseason market.

Just my opinion but I live in Atlanta (metro) and go to a lot of Braves games (when they are playing the Yankees and Mets) and I dont see much pop in that outfield. Ie xcept Francouer to be better but thats about it..

vikingsfan0845
01-25-2009, 01:33 PM
does anybody have any links showing who the braves are looking at?

rtgthree
01-25-2009, 02:13 PM
does anybody have any links showing who the braves are looking at?

There are dozens of links to all kinds of sites saying the Braves have/had interest in all kinds of players. If I were to list guys that I think the Braves have been reported to be interested in by reputable sources, my list would be:

Adam Dunn, Bobby Abreu, Nick Swisher, Xavier Nady, Rick Ankiel, Ryan Ludwick, Jermaine Dye, Andruw Jones, Brian Roberts and Orlando Hudson (obviously the last two aren't outfielders but they would move Kelly J. to left field).

The links to all those are scattered across the web, some new some dating back to the beginning of the offseason. Anyone who has additions/subtractions to that list is welcome to make suggestions.

jmtapia
01-25-2009, 10:06 PM
Flipping Kotchman was just a "discussion" type thing... i know its not probable but i think it would make sense to an extent if we wanted to go after Dunn. I wasnt suggesting this move because Kotchman performance last year but more so to add pieces where they make more sense....

njbravefan
01-25-2009, 10:30 PM
not even mentioning Kotchman's Gold Glove caliber defense

jmtapia
01-25-2009, 11:30 PM
not even mentioning Kotchman's Gold Glove caliber defense

i took that into account....

BravoFan3736
01-26-2009, 06:03 PM
"With the season drawing closer, Wren finds himself looking at a free-agent outfield market that appears to be more affordable and more attractive than he could have imagined at this point.

This isn't to say the Braves are definitely looking to sign either Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu. But as the cost for these two unsigned outfielders seemingly drops, there's reason for them to become more intriguing to Wren. "

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=8133472

laxman1017
01-26-2009, 07:39 PM
With the prices being what they are, I think it makes TOTAL sense to sign either Dunn or Abreu. Either one of these guys brings their own weaknesses, but BOTH make a LOT of sense with the economy being what it is. I like em'

rtgthree
01-26-2009, 07:54 PM
With the prices being what they are, I think it makes TOTAL sense to sign either Dunn or Abreu. Either one of these guys brings their own weaknesses, but BOTH make a LOT of sense with the economy being what it is. I like em'

Amen. Given the choice, definitely Dunn over Abreu.

NickSC07
01-26-2009, 08:41 PM
Agreed. I prefer the younger, more powerful Dunn. Hopefully with the $10-$12 Mil we have left we can get Dunn for around 7/8 per so that we can use the remainder on Ohman.

chuck.mcmillan
01-26-2009, 10:05 PM
If we did that you have to give Wren atleast a B for his creativeness this offseason. Kawakami, Vasquez, Lowe, Dunn, and Ohman without losing any talent from last years roster. Remember if we could have won half of the 1 run games that we lost last year we would have made the playoffs. With 3 quality starters and a proven slugger give us 20 more wins this year.

MarkLemke4ever
02-01-2009, 04:41 PM
David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution guesses Dunn might be the Braves' fourth choice, after Abreu, Nick Swisher, and Xavier Nady.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

jmtapia
02-01-2009, 04:56 PM
^^^damn the Braves really dont like him....lol. Oh well

A_Brave_Pack
02-01-2009, 05:32 PM
^^^damn the Braves really dont like him....lol. Oh well

My recollection of that article claiming Dunn is the 4th option is because Frank Wren is still assuming that Dunn's contract demands are in the $10-12mil range. Also, he is LH. I think Frank Wren would reconsider if he knew that Dunn's demands had dropped to 1/6-8mil.

Furthermore, I was reading that Dunn is waiting on Manny to sign, because Dunn really wants to play for the Dodgers. Therefore, if Manny doesn't resign with the Dodgers, I think Dunn wants to stay available to sign with them.

jmtapia
02-02-2009, 01:06 AM
My recollection of that article claiming Dunn is the 4th option is because Frank Wren is still assuming that Dunn's contract demands are in the $10-12mil range. Also, he is LH. I think Frank Wren would reconsider if he knew that Dunn's demands had dropped to 1/6-8mil.

Furthermore, I was reading that Dunn is waiting on Manny to sign, because Dunn really wants to play for the Dodgers. Therefore, if Manny doesn't resign with the Dodgers, I think Dunn wants to stay available to sign with them.

Trust me what ever we know Wren has on file... If anything there is something that we dont know that is keeping him that far off the Braves list.

A_Brave_Pack
02-02-2009, 01:46 AM
Possible. But Wren may be waiting until Dunn lowers his expectations, much like Abreu has before offering him a 'lowball' (in Dunn's view) offer. No need to go to Dunn with a 1/6mil when he is still thinking/expecting $10-12mil.

I have no doubt that Wren has more info on Dunn than I can ever dream, and perhaps there is something that he knows. That's a good call.

BravoFan3736
02-02-2009, 07:56 AM
Possible. But Wren may be waiting until Dunn lowers his expectations, much like Abreu has before offering him a 'lowball' (in Dunn's view) offer. No need to go to Dunn with a 1/6mil when he is still thinking/expecting $10-12mil.

I have no doubt that Wren has more info on Dunn than I can ever dream, and perhaps there is something that he knows. That's a good call.

With the Braves talking with Dunn last friday is just a starting point to where dunn think he is at as in Dollars and terms....No thing more...

Dunn won't sign anywhere till Manram does (Dodgers/Gaints/Other Team) because the Dodgers have said that plan B would be Dunn....Reported Dunn has always wanted to play for the dodgers so we can talk about signing dunn but nothing will happen in the FA market till Manny signs....But once he does I can see flurry of OF signings with Dunn and Abreu which would than puts pressure on the trade front with the the Yanks (Nady/Swisher). I just have feeling cashman's desire for high prospect from the braves will prevent any trade from happening and will look to the FA option with the prices of OF going down so much...

Why would't you sign a dunn for 2 year deal at a bargain rate?? We could be looking back and kicking ourselves if we don't sign Dunn when next year his rate could be back up at 10-15Mil if the economy turns around and he shows some improvement in the field...Dunn will be a steal of this off season for the team that has the Balls to sign him...

jmtapia
02-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Why would't you sign a dunn for 2 year deal at a bargain rate?? We could be looking back and kicking ourselves if we don't sign Dunn when next year his rate could be back up at 10-15Mil if the economy turns around and he shows some improvement in the field...Dunn will be a steal of this off season for the team that has the Balls to sign him...

has it occurred to anyone that we might not have the money to do that??? Also you just spent a lot of time writing how Dunn wont sign ahead of Ramirez. Sometimes it takes more then balls....it takes money.

Coach100
02-03-2009, 01:05 PM
I think at this point Dunn is done changing (no pun intended). He is the player he will be -- a terrible fielder who hits the ball a real long way. I think the Braves have ruled Dunn out as an option, or he is their last option. He is LH, a bad fielder, not a leader, and has probay shown the best he will be. (Not that he will decline, but I doubt bigger numbers moving ahead) Dunn would still be a steal, but there are reasons he hasn't been getting sniffs and his stock is falling. I hope the Braves leave it that way.

rtgthree
02-03-2009, 05:37 PM
I think the Braves have ruled Dunn out as an option, or he is their last option.

I would tend to agree with you. It really does not sound like the Braves have done anything more than kick the tires on Dunn, and there have been no reports of any real negotiations. It remains to be seen exactly how rational that decision is on the Braves' part, since Dunn is likely to fall squarely in the bargain bin, even taking his defense into account. Of course, there are several acquisitions that could make us forget all about Dunn, but if we wind up with Ken Griffey Jr. or Brandon Jones in left field, we'll wonder why Wren never went after Adam Dunn.

laxman1017
02-03-2009, 05:40 PM
Amen to that. I seems like the LF market is starting to move with the White Sox looking into Abreu, and more happening on the Manny front (He's an piece of work BTW), so hopefully it will start moving soon. I agree though, I believe the Braves see a little bit too much of Andruw in Dunn, and we know how they feel about him :)

jmtapia
02-03-2009, 05:48 PM
Amen to that. I seems like the LF market is starting to move with the White Sox looking into Abreu, and more happening on the Manny front (He's an piece of work BTW), so hopefully it will start moving soon. I agree though, I believe the Braves see a little bit too much of Andruw in Dunn, and we know how they feel about him :)

That rumor was discredited.