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Shaq back 2 L.A
01-19-2009, 12:39 PM
what will this match up mean for both teams?

will this have any affect on who the best player/mvp is?(kobe v.s. lebron):speechless:


go lakers!

philab
01-19-2009, 01:15 PM
It should be an exciting game, but it's not much more than just a regular season game.

At best, it should give us an idea about just how good each team is.


But unless one team BLOWS out the other or either Kobe or LeBron sucks it up real bad, it won't change anything. Maybe once the Lakers come to Cleveland we could look at the two games as a whole, but right now, meh.

madiaz3
01-19-2009, 01:25 PM
It really is more important at the end of the season. No one is out until then. I'm pretty sure Kobe solidified his MVP with a significant victory vs. the Hornets at the end of the season. This will just be extremely fun to watch, been waiting all year for it.

rocky2009
01-19-2009, 02:54 PM
will the cavs get their candy assses whooped like they rightfully deserve?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-4xvO1z58o

cmstophe
01-19-2009, 05:18 PM
will the cavs get their candy assses whooped like they rightfully deserve?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-4xvO1z58o

lol @ this guy got banned from Real Cavs Fans forum because he was trolling there. Looooser.

BTownTeamsRKing
01-19-2009, 06:39 PM
go lakers? ew

Frrrrank!!!
01-19-2009, 06:44 PM
go lakers? ew

I know right?:puke:

JordansBulls
01-19-2009, 06:45 PM
what will this match up mean for both teams?

will this have any affect on who the best player/mvp is?(kobe v.s. lebron):speechless:


go lakers!

Game is more important for the Lakers than Cavs. Cavs are missing Big Z. Cavs have the best record in the league. Also the Lakers just lost at home to Orlando and the game before to San Antonio.

Game means much more for the Lakers.

MJ-BULLS
01-19-2009, 07:20 PM
kobe if the lakers win

Hawkeye15
01-19-2009, 07:32 PM
no effect on MVP. The season is a marathon. LeBron won their head to head matchups last year, Kobe won MVP. So it doesn't really matter. If LeBron can will Cleveland to 58+ wins, that is more impressive than Bryant getting the Lakers 60. Less help, tougher conference. Plus, the media has pretty much made up their minds.

ElSerenoBlu
01-19-2009, 07:36 PM
I just want to see the crab dribble be performed on Staples floor!

MJ-BULLS
01-19-2009, 07:58 PM
I just want to see the crab dribble be performed on Staples floor!

me too:clap:

LeBrowns
01-19-2009, 08:10 PM
The cavs are missing D West and Z, though I still expect it to be a close hard fought game.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
01-19-2009, 08:13 PM
I am excited. But with Z and West out for Cleveland, its not going to determine who is better.

td0tsfinest
01-19-2009, 08:23 PM
IMO, Lebron is a the clear runner for MVP as long as the Cavs continue to play well and Lebron stays healthy.
Its going to be a good match up even though Z and west are out. Lebron could drop 50 tonight. :p

thegreatone08
01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
I don't think the MVP is given right now. I know people say look at the talent Kobe has compared to Lebron. If you watch a Lakers game you will see how much worse the Lakers are when he is out of the lineup. And I'm sure the same can be said for Lebron, and no doubt is putting up numbers that could add up to one of the greatest seasons ever. But MVP is more than numbers. No doubt tho these are the top 2 players in the league.

XJW18
01-19-2009, 08:32 PM
IMO, Lebron is a the clear runner for MVP as long as the Cavs continue to play well and Lebron stays healthy.
Its going to be a good match up even though Z and west are out. Lebron could drop 50 tonight. :p

I agree, LBJ is cleary playing out of his mind this season!
KOBE has stepped it up as of lately but the lakers just cant finish!

No one other than Kobe and Pau have been playing well offensively.
Pau will be the guy to either make or break this team tonite, i wanna see him use and abuse Anderson Varajeo.

Lakers4ItAll
01-19-2009, 08:34 PM
Them and the NBA want Lebron to be MVP so bad it's disgusting.


no effect on MVP. The season is a marathon. LeBron won their head to head matchups last year, Kobe won MVP. So it doesn't really matter. If LeBron can will Cleveland to 58+ wins, that is more impressive than Bryant getting the Lakers 60. Less help, tougher conference. Plus, the media has pretty much made up their minds.

cmstophe
01-19-2009, 08:57 PM
Them and the NBA want Lebron to be MVP so bad it's disgusting.

Why are you complaining? They pretty much wanted to finally give Kobe his "just due" last season and they did, no matter what was going to happen (he did happen to deserve it). Just like Lebron does so far this season.

ARMIN12NBA
01-19-2009, 09:08 PM
Why are you complaining? They pretty much wanted to finally give Kobe his "just due" last season and they did, no matter what was going to happen (he did happen to deserve it). Just like Lebron does so far this season.

Incorrect. Kobe Bryant was even dubbed unfit to be the MVP on ESPN in late March because he got ejected from the Lakers v. Bobcats game. Skip Bayless and another analyst (forgot his name) on SportsCenter said that Kobe Bryant was not a leader like James, Paul, or Garnett because he got ejected from this game. IMO, they were nitpicking at every moment just to look for a reason not to give Kobe the award. The following week, the Lakers beat the Hornets and they got the #1 record and the media had to give Bryant the MVP.

So, no, the media wasn't chomping at the bit to give Bryant the award like they do for Lebron (who has been the pre-season MVP pick for 3-4 years running).

philab
01-19-2009, 09:36 PM
Incorrect. Kobe Bryant was even dubbed unfit to be the MVP on ESPN in late March because he got ejected from the Lakers v. Bobcats game. Skip Bayless and another analyst (forgot his name) on SportsCenter said that Kobe Bryant was not a leader like James, Paul, or Garnett because he got ejected from this game. IMO, they were nitpicking at every moment just to look for a reason not to give Kobe the award. The following week, the Lakers beat the Hornets and they got the #1 record and the media had to give Bryant the MVP.

So, no, the media wasn't chomping at the bit to give Bryant the award like they do for Lebron (who has been the pre-season MVP pick for 3-4 years running).

No way did Skip Bayless refer to James as a leader.

And anyway, Skip Bayless is an idiot (well, more appropriately, he's a genius who's made a good career off taking contrarian, even idiotic stances on every subject).


And the media votes on the MVP. Cry foul all you want, but I still see Kobe MVPs: 1 to LeBron MVPs: 0. That's not a great start to a "media loves LeBron and hates Kobe" theory.

ARMIN12NBA
01-19-2009, 09:43 PM
No way did Skip Bayless refer to James as a leader.

And anyway, Skip Bayless is an idiot (well, more appropriately, he's a genius who's made a good career off taking contrarian, even idiotic stances on every subject).


And the media votes on the MVP. Cry foul all you want, but I still see Kobe MVPs: 1 to LeBron MVPs: 0. That's not a great start to a "media loves LeBron and hates Kobe" theory.

Another analyst was agreeing and saying the same thing. Skip was arguing for KG as being the MVP and the other was arguing for Chris Paul as the MVP after they stated Bryant was unfit to be an MVP (whatever that means).

The media does love Lebron and hate Kobe. There was even a great Scoop Jackson article written about the same thing. He talked about the hatred for Kobe among the media (as he is in the media himself and sees this first hand) and the personal agenda that the writers/analysts have against Bryant.

cmstophe
01-19-2009, 09:43 PM
Yeah, sorry, but that's untrue. Bayless hates James with a passion, and anything he says is useless and does not in any way represent the media's opinion.

Ok, the media hates Kobe. I guess they do. That must be why he won the MVP.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2009, 09:50 PM
Them and the NBA want Lebron to be MVP so bad it's disgusting.

I find it funny how you pointed out the one thing Kobe fans have going for them currently. But, I agree in a sense. LeBron deserved it last year, the voters will make sure he gets it this year.

ARMIN12NBA
01-19-2009, 09:55 PM
Yeah, sorry, but that's untrue. Bayless hates James with a passion, and anything he says is useless and does not in any way represent the media's opinion.

Ok, the media hates Kobe. I guess they do. That must be why he won the MVP.

Whatever you say, buddy.

Scoop Jackson:


Truth is Kobe Bryant will never win the MVP of the league. He is hated too much. Hated by those who cast votes. Hated too much by those he plays against. And the two All-Star Game MVPs he's won, well, they don't count in this scenario. Voting Kobe as the best basketball player in the world for a day is one thing, honoring him with that same title for an entire season in the infamous words of Bobby Brown's ex-wife: "Oh, hell to the No!"

Writers won't honor Kobe like that, not even when in good consciousness they want to or would like to. As one writer said to me when the subject was brought up in conversation, very apropos for an election year, "Kobe's electability quotient is zero." In other words, he's Ralph Nader.


Which leads us back to the hate: A man averages 35.4 ppg, the eighth-highest average in the history of the league; he gives you 5.3 rebounds, 4.5 assists and 1.8 steals; he has 27 games of 40-plus points, has one month where he averages 43.4 ppg, scores 81 in one game and outscores an entire team in another (the 62-point game against Dallas where he sat out the fourth quarter); he is on the all-defensive first team (something not one of the other players in the MVP running is included on); and he leads a CBA-built team to the playoffs. The man has a season that no one is likely to see for another generation and he comes in fourth in the MVP voting that year.

That same man, the very next year, averages 31.6 points, 5.7 rebounds, 5.4 assists and 1.4 steals for the "fedora trick"; he has 10 games of 50-plus points, only the second person in NBA history to do so in a single season (including a four-in-a-row stretch that hadn't been seen in more than 20 years); he makes the all-defensive first team again; and this time he takes a YBA-built squad to the playoffs. In a season that many claim is more "complete" than the season before, the man this time comes in third in the MVP voting.

How bad is it for Kobe? In a 2004-05 season in which Kobe averaged 27.6 points, 5.9 rebounds and 6.0 assists, P.J. Brown -- yes, you read right -- received more MVP votes than he did, and Brown received only one vote. How many games did the Hornets win that year? 18.

Luckily, Bryant had a great season as well as the Lakers. The media HAD to give him the MVP. Anyways, this is a great article and it truly shows the bias of the media.

philab
01-19-2009, 10:01 PM
The media does love Lebron and hate Kobe. There was even a great Scoop Jackson article written about the same thing. He talked about the hatred for Kobe among the media (as he is in the media himself and sees this first hand) and the personal agenda that the writers/analysts have against Bryant.

So Scoop Jackson is the final word on this?

You realize you're relying on and trashing the same people in one breath?


ESPN generally gives LeBron a fair amount of love, save a few like Bayless (who rips on LeBron for EVERYTHING -- even the 48 PT, 24 of last 25 game against Detroit a few years ago). The media as a whole isn't quite so loving, but it's pretty favorable overall.

Kobe gets ripped on more than he should, and I've admitted this before. But c'mon, "HATES" is a hyperbole to say the least. We're talking about the guy who was given the title "Best Player in the NBA" a few years ago by the media. A dissenting voice wasn't heard until this year -- NOT ONE! There was universal assent throughout the media that Kobe was the best player. That just does not jell with your "hate" theory.

Zefflin
01-19-2009, 10:06 PM
He is the most loved and hated player in basketball. It's tough being the best.

ARMIN12NBA
01-19-2009, 10:08 PM
So Scoop Jackson is the final word on this?

You realize you're relying on and trashing the same people in one breath?


ESPN generally gives LeBron a fair amount of love, save a few like Bayless (who rips on LeBron for EVERYTHING -- even the 48 PT, 24 of last 25 game against Detroit a few years ago). The media as a whole isn't quite so loving, but it's pretty favorable overall.

Kobe gets ripped on more than he should, and I've admitted this before. But c'mon, "HATES" is a hyperbole to say the least. We're talking about the guy who was given the title "Best Player in the NBA" a few years ago by the media. A dissenting voice wasn't heard until this year -- NOT ONE! There was universal assent throughout the media that Kobe was the best player. That just does not jell with your "hate" theory.

Pretty much. Not ALL are bias. It is the same with every new outlet in the world. Some are bias; other are not. He went out and called the other media members for being bias against Bryant.

It jells. The media proclaimed Bryant the best player, but, at the same time, he was a horrid leader. At the same time, he was a horrid teammate. At the same time, he can't win without Shaq. At the same time, he will never be as good as MJ (who cares? Why can't he just be a great player?). At the same time, he should be carrying Kwame/Smush to the second round (ummm...no, that is impossible).

There was always a "but" even when it wasn't deserved. Heck, I remember people calling him selfish and a ballhog after scoring 81 or call him a ballhog for not passing enough to his teammates. The same people call him selfish and stupid for passing too much to bad teammates.

The double standards are glaring.

Kenny
01-19-2009, 10:08 PM
cavs are missing 2 starters.. lakers should win

Zefflin
01-19-2009, 10:10 PM
So are the Lakers...good logic.

Greaser1
01-19-2009, 10:13 PM
go lakers? ew


I know right?:puke:

Thank god the Celtics are out of the championship picture:rolleyes:. Lakers-Cavs NBA Finals Preview:):D

philab
01-19-2009, 10:27 PM
Pretty much. Not ALL are bias. It is the same with every new outlet in the world. Some are bias; other are not. He went out and called the other media members for being bias against Bryant.

It jells. The media proclaimed Bryant the best player, but, at the same time, he was a horrid leader. At the same time, he was a horrid teammate. At the same time, he can't win without Shaq. At the same time, he will never be as good as MJ (who cares? Why can't he just be a great player?). At the same time, he should be carrying Kwame/Smush to the second round (ummm...no, that is impossible).

There was always a "but" even when it wasn't deserved. Heck, I remember people calling him selfish and a ballhog after scoring 81 or call him a ballhog for not passing enough to his teammates. The same people call him selfish and stupid for passing too much to bad teammates.

The double standards are glaring.

Okay, some are biased and some are not . . . and those who rip Kobe are biased and those who praise him aren't biased?


And for the bolded part, there's some truth to all of that.
Only the Kwame/Smush thing is bogus. "Horrid" isn't the right word, but the Bynum/trade controversy didn't look good for Kobe no matter what way you slice it. Sure, he may have had his reasons, but the general consensus is that such behavior amounts to poor leadership and "teammate-ship" (yyyeah). There's no bias to Kobe there; the media reacts like that every time. And Kobe hasn't won without Shaq, and he's not as good as MJ. True, there's no reason to bring these things up, but at least there's some truth to it. The last two are the closest you're gonna get to a "media bias" in my eyes.


Listen, it's not necessarily that I disagree with you; I understand where you're coming from for the most part. You are, however, seriously in need of some perspective. Relying on the ESPN talking heads that agree with you and trashing the others in the same breath is a pretty bogus argument if you're in my seat. Saying Kobe is "hated" when he was universally declared the best player in the league is fishy if you're in my seat. Calling the media's reaction to Kobe's trade demands biased without mention of its reaction to other such trade demands raises some question marks if you're in my seat.

Kenny
01-19-2009, 10:29 PM
So are the Lakers...good logic.

who derek fisher and??

still1ballin
01-19-2009, 10:42 PM
Thank god the Celtics are out of the championship picture:rolleyes:. Lakers-Cavs NBA Finals Preview:):D

Hell no! I want Boston in the finals! I want a rematch!

Greaser1
01-19-2009, 10:50 PM
Hell no! I want Boston in the finals! I want a rematch!

I was being Sarcastic, but this year it looks like the Cave are comin out of the East JMO.

Shaq back 2 L.A
01-19-2009, 10:56 PM
no effect on MVP. The season is a marathon. LeBron won their head to head matchups last year, Kobe won MVP. So it doesn't really matter. If LeBron can will Cleveland to 58+ wins, that is more impressive than Bryant getting the Lakers 60. Less help, tougher conference. Plus, the media has pretty much made up their minds.

how is the east a tougher conference??

Shaq back 2 L.A
01-19-2009, 10:58 PM
IMO, Lebron is a the clear runner for MVP as long as the Cavs continue to play well and Lebron stays healthy.
Its going to be a good match up even though Z and west are out. Lebron could drop 50 tonight. :p

and jordan farmar is out luke suks lamar isnt 100% but im not making excuses just in case one of these two teams get blown out

cmstophe
01-19-2009, 11:05 PM
Whatever you say, buddy.

Scoop Jackson:





Luckily, Bryant had a great season as well as the Lakers. The media HAD to give him the MVP. Anyways, this is a great article and it truly shows the bias of the media.

I'm not your buddy. And I'm glad you got your opinion from Scoop Jackson, the be all end all of NBA reporting.


and jordan farmar is out luke suks lamar isnt 100% but im not making excuses just in case one of these two teams get blown out

Are the Lakers missing 40% of their starting lineup?

Shaq back 2 L.A
01-19-2009, 11:07 PM
I'm not your buddy. And I'm glad you got your opinion from Scoop Jackson, the be all end all of NBA reporting.



Are the Lakers missing 40% of their starting lineup?

no but they are still missing their future pg and their 6th man isnt 100%

still1ballin
01-19-2009, 11:07 PM
I was being Sarcastic, but this year it looks like the Cave are comin out of the East JMO.


I hope not!

Zefflin
01-19-2009, 11:10 PM
who derek fisher and??

Fish is playing through a minor groin injury, Farmar is out, and Sasha and Walton are just coming back...if they are even playing tonight.

cmstophe
01-19-2009, 11:12 PM
no but they are still missing their future pg and their 6th man isnt 100%

Meh. They are fine.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-19-2009, 11:13 PM
Game is more important for the Lakers than Cavs. Cavs are missing Big Z. Cavs have the best record in the league. Also the Lakers just lost at home to Orlando and the game before to San Antonio.

Game means much more for the Lakers.

How is it more important to the Lakers? The Cavs are the ones who have two teams right on their heels for the conference's best record. The Lakers have a nice cushion behind them and the rest of the west. I kind of wish someone was closer to push the Lakers to need to win every night. Right now they dont have that.

italianyankees
01-19-2009, 11:13 PM
the battle of the MVP'S. Kobe has the better team. Lakers win. GO KNICKS

philab
01-19-2009, 11:21 PM
There's no need for excuses from either side, especially before the game even begins.

It's just a regular season game.

cmstophe
01-19-2009, 11:24 PM
Championships aren't won in January. the Cavs are probably just going to grind out this next month, make a trade if need be, and then they'll be healthy for the stretch run to the playoffs.

theimortalone
01-19-2009, 11:39 PM
Go Cavs!

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 12:00 AM
What is it about the Cavs. Every time the Lakers play them, Kobe gets hurt. 3 Years ago, he dislocated his shoulder in the first quarter, the next year he sprained his ankle in the first quarter and missed a big chunk of the season. Now he dislocates his finger in the first 2 minutes again. The Cavs are dirty! :D

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 12:07 AM
lolz

Cavs were in total control and about 30 seconds and they are now down by 1.

Kenny
01-20-2009, 12:08 AM
lolz

Cavs were in total control and about 30 seconds and they are now down by 1.

it's called the nba

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 01:38 AM
Cleveland is missing Big Z. They are too small without him. They actually made Bynum have a good game for a change.

Kenny
01-20-2009, 01:38 AM
Cleveland is missing Big Z. They are too small without him. They actually made Bynum have a good game for a change.

Gasol is 9-10 from the field also

theimortalone
01-20-2009, 01:40 AM
LAL 2-9 from the ft line! :ouch:

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 01:43 AM
Gasol is 9-10 from the field also

But Gasol has those games where he gets hot. I think Big Z would have guarded Bynum. Bynum has been playing pretty crappy lately

theimortalone
01-20-2009, 01:43 AM
I think its safe to say that LAL have won.

DCB/LAL
01-20-2009, 01:52 AM
Okay, some are biased and some are not . . . and those who rip Kobe are biased and those who praise him aren't biased?


And for the bolded part, there's some truth to all of that.
Only the Kwame/Smush thing is bogus. "Horrid" isn't the right word, but the Bynum/trade controversy didn't look good for Kobe no matter what way you slice it. Sure, he may have had his reasons, but the general consensus is that such behavior amounts to poor leadership and "teammate-ship" (yyyeah). There's no bias to Kobe there; the media reacts like that every time. And Kobe hasn't won without Shaq, and he's not as good as MJ. True, there's no reason to bring these things up, but at least there's some truth to it. The last two are the closest you're gonna get to a "media bias" in my eyes.


Listen, it's not necessarily that I disagree with you; I understand where you're coming from for the most part. You are, however, seriously in need of some perspective. Relying on the ESPN talking heads that agree with you and trashing the others in the same breath is a pretty bogus argument if you're in my seat. Saying Kobe is "hated" when he was universally declared the best player in the league is fishy if you're in my seat. Calling the media's reaction to Kobe's trade demands biased without mention of its reaction to other such trade demands raises some question marks if you're in my seat.

IMO ESPN hates on kobe for that reason. They dont want him to be known as better than MJ which he is!!! I dont care if you bash me for it it wont change my opinion. If you threw MJ in there with Kobe,Lebron, and Wade all MJ would be is another superstar. Everyone says Kobe cant win without Shaq and while he hasn't MJ never won without pippen!! Lets not forget pippen is one of the 50 greatest to play the game and pippen made the playoffs without MJ too!! The only reason MJ was so great was because he was the only one of his kind at the time now there are handfulls like him and Kobe has been at the top of all of them for years!!

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 01:53 AM
I think its safe to say that LAL have won.

Your going to get a nasty PM from me if you jinxed us!:p

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 02:06 AM
IMO ESPN hates on kobe for that reason. They dont want him to be known as better than MJ which he is!!! I dont care if you bash me for it it wont change my opinion. If you threw MJ in there with Kobe,Lebron, and Wade all MJ would be is another superstar. Everyone says Kobe cant win without Shaq and while he hasn't MJ never won without pippen!! Lets not forget pippen is one of the 50 greatest to play the game and pippen made the playoffs without MJ too!! The only reason MJ was so great was because he was the only one of his kind at the time now there are handfulls like him and Kobe has been at the top of all of them for years!!

Come on man. We can argue that the players today are like Jordan. But he was the original and accomplished many things. We can not say these players are better until they prove it. We cant just go by "maybe's" or "ifs" Jordan set a standard and none of these players have achieved what he did. You cant just say these players are better without any proof to back it up.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 02:06 AM
Kobe shows he is still the best perimeter defender in the league when he wants to be.

Lost Art
01-20-2009, 02:07 AM
Kobe killed it on both sides of the floor. He's picked up 10+ assists in the last 3 games now, he's on a roll.

Teeboy1487
01-20-2009, 02:11 AM
I hate when people say Kobe is better than Jordan. Jordan paved the way for people like kobe, wade, lebron, and t-mac. Jordan is the best to ever play. Also, lebron is not better than kobe. Not yet.

NFLNBA
01-20-2009, 02:12 AM
1. Kobe is the best player in the NBA STILL! he just doesnt need to show it every night because his whole team is good.

2. best officiated game ive seen since the early 90's - late 80's. No ticky-tac fouls, no star treatment, if you drove the lane and you created the contact there was no whistle.

S.J.Basketball
01-20-2009, 02:15 AM
Lebron really sells fouls. When Ariza and Lebron barely bumped heads Ariza continued playing as he stole it and Lebron SQUINTS his eyes in pain and cries. They didn't call it, but he REALLY tried to sell it.

DCB/LAL
01-20-2009, 02:16 AM
Come on man. We can argue that the players today are like Jordan. But he was the original and accomplished many things. We can not say these players are better until they prove it. We cant just go by "maybe's" or "ifs" Jordan set a standard and none of these players have achieved what he did. You cant just say these players are better without any proof to back it up.

Yes he may of set the standard but can you imagine how difficult it must of been for other teams at the time to see someone like him? Now a days you know what your going up against and teams know what to do and players are more advanced and they still cant stop Kobe Lebron or Wade CP3 so on and so on Imagine what Kobe would of achieved or Lebron or anyone one of them had been In MJs shoes?? It would probably be the other way around you be comparing MJ to them not comparing them to MJ. Know what i mean?

Lakers4ItAll
01-20-2009, 02:17 AM
Great game. I was deff happy to see the Refs let the players play.

Zefflin
01-20-2009, 02:18 AM
1. Kobe is the best player in the NBA STILL! he just doesnt need to show it every night because his whole team is good.

2. best officiated game ive seen since the early 90's - late 80's. No ticky-tac fouls, no star treatment, if you drove the lane and you created the contact there was no whistle.

:nod:

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 02:23 AM
Yes he may of set the standard but can you imagine how difficult it must of been for other teams at the time to see someone like him? Now a days you know what your going up against and teams know what to do and players are more advanced and they still cant stop Kobe Lebron or Wade CP3 so on and so on Imagine what Kobe would of achieved or Lebron or anyone one of them had been In MJs shoes?? It would probably be the other way around you be comparing MJ to them not comparing them to MJ. Know what i mean?

I do. But unfortunately, MJ was first. He set the bar. And we have to wait to give guys the title of best ever. And MJ was after Doc J. The league has seen players like him before. Drexler was also like MJ. A slasher that could fly.

So until (if ever) Kobe, or Lebron or Wade accomplish these things, we cant say they are better. Jordan had the stats, the accolades, and the titles. No other player besides Kareem has the resume that Jordan has. Magic might of had it had it not been for his disease. But I guess now Im starting with the what ifs huh? :)

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 02:24 AM
Game lacked the luster, Cavs really, really missed Z and Delonte West. they were way too small out there and that allowed Pau to have a field day. I can see Cleveland falling to 4th seed with the injuries. Good win for LA though.

DreamShaker
01-20-2009, 02:27 AM
Cavs need to get healthy again....and how did Kobe prove he was better than Lebron tonight??? That's like saying Pierce is better than Kobe because of the Finals game 6 last year....

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 02:28 AM
Game lacked the luster, Cavs really, really missed Z and Delonte West. they were way too small out there and that allowed Pau to have a field day. I can see Cleveland falling to 4th seed with the injuries. Good win for LA though.

Yeah they missed Big Z. But I think I would rather of had Delonte West out there on Kobe. He is too short to play on Kobe. Pavlovic is the better defender in my mind. But yeah, it was a good win, it would have been better if Cleavland was healthier

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 02:31 AM
Game is more important for the Lakers than Cavs. Cavs are missing Big Z. Cavs have the best record in the league. Also the Lakers just lost at home to Orlando and the game before to San Antonio.

Game means much more for the Lakers.

You have to be joking, the game meant a lot to the Cavs, the Lakers went to the finals last year. The Cavs want to prove they can play with the best the "West" has to offer.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2009, 02:32 AM
Great win, i hope Adande, Hollinger , Stein and the rest of the crap at Espn are eating some crow now!!!

Keep putting lakers down in the rankings losers!!!!

S.J.Basketball
01-20-2009, 02:33 AM
You have to be joking, the game meant a lot to the Cavs, the Lakers went to the finals last year. The Cavs want to prove they can play with the best the "West" has to offer.

Cavs are missing 2 key players: West and Big Z. Lakers better win this game. More important for us to win than lose with 2 of their starters out dood.

DCB/LAL
01-20-2009, 02:34 AM
I do. But unfortunately, MJ was first. He set the bar. And we have to wait to give guys the title of best ever. And MJ was after Doc J. The league has seen players like him before. Drexler was also like MJ. A slasher that could fly.

So until (if ever) Kobe, or Lebron or Wade accomplish these things, we cant say they are better. Jordan had the stats, the accolades, and the titles. No other player besides Kareem has the resume that Jordan has. Magic might of had it had it not been for his disease. But I guess now Im starting with the what ifs huh? :)

Dont get me wrong MJ was great no doubt and the first to do what he did But he also had one of the top 50 players paying along side of him pippen was no scrub i just find it highly doubtful that MJ would be as highly regarded if he was in his prime and played now a days i think he'd be just another super star sharing the spotlight with Kobe and Lebron and wade. I mean Wilt Averaged 50 for a season did't he? And hes not considered the best ever? Now people argue well MJ was a better Defensive player and he was a great Defensive player but com'on he wouldn't shut down Kobe or Lebron do you think he would and do you honestly think MJ would become who he is today if he played now a days? With the 6 titles and all that he acheieved would he do all that now a days?? Ask yourself and answer that honestly

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 02:38 AM
Cavs are missing 2 key players: West and Big Z. Lakers better win this game. More important for us to win than lose with 2 of their starters out dood.

My point is, the game was big for both teams. The Cavs just beat New Orleans without Big Z, I understand they are missing players, but I don't like how people try to act like the game is not as important for both teams. The game was important for both teams, period......

*The funny thing is no one was making those excuses before the game, especially with Cleveland having the top record in the league. Lebron and company don't make excuses, guys have to step up, injuries are a part of the game. The lakers have had their fair share of injuries also.

GspLAL
01-20-2009, 02:39 AM
Dont get me wrong MJ was great no doubt and the first to do what he did But he also had one of the top 50 players paying along side of him pippen was no scrub i just find it highly doubtful that MJ would be as highly regarded if he was in his prime and played now a days i think he'd be just another super star sharing the spotlight with Kobe and Lebron and wade. I mean Wilt Averaged 50 for a season did't he? And hes not considered the best ever? Now people argue well MJ was a better Defensive player and he was a great Defensive player but com'on he wouldn't shut down Kobe or Lebron do you think he would and do you honestly think MJ would become who he is today if he played now a days? With the 6 titles and all that he acheieved would he do all that now a days?? Ask yourself and answer that honestly

Who gives a **** about nowadys or anything, I can use that argument and say do you think Shaq and Kobe would have won back in the early 90s or late 80s if they played in that era? That's not proof that's just "ifs". Jordan is the best, stop trying to argue it.

DCB/LAL
01-20-2009, 02:49 AM
Who gives a **** about nowadys or anything, I can use that argument and say do you think Shaq and Kobe would have won back in the early 90s or late 80s if they played in that era? That's not proof that's just "ifs". Jordan is the best, stop trying to argue it.

I will argue it all i want i say Kobe is the best and we can go back forth and yes they may of won back to back they were that good!! See the problem is everyone is one MJs D**k that they wont admit it I dont care who says what MJ would not be as great if he played now a days just another super star period!

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 02:50 AM
My point is, the game was big for both teams. The Cavs just beat New Orleans without Big Z, I understand they are missing players, but I don't like how people try to act like the game is not as important for both teams. The game was important for both teams, period......

*The funny thing is no one was making those excuses before the game, especially with Cleveland having the top record in the league. Lebron and company don't make excuses, guys have to step up, injuries are a part of the game. The lakers have had their fair share of injuries also.

Lakers are missing jack compared to 2 starters, one of which was playing at an All Star level before he went down.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 02:52 AM
Dont get me wrong MJ was great no doubt and the first to do what he did But he also had one of the top 50 players paying along side of him pippen was no scrub i just find it highly doubtful that MJ would be as highly regarded if he was in his prime and played now a days i think he'd be just another super star sharing the spotlight with Kobe and Lebron and wade. I mean Wilt Averaged 50 for a season did't he? And hes not considered the best ever? Now people argue well MJ was a better Defensive player and he was a great Defensive player but com'on he wouldn't shut down Kobe or Lebron do you think he would and do you honestly think MJ would become who he is today if he played now a days? With the 6 titles and all that he acheieved would he do all that now a days?? Ask yourself and answer that honestly

Of course he needed help. Everyone does. Pippen was a great player. And he complimented Jordan perfectly. Pippen would take the responsibility of guarding the opposing teams best perimeter scorer, relieving Jordan of that responsibility and thus making it easier to be fresh on offense and more efficient. But Jordan took advantage of having one good player next to him to the tune of 6 titles.

Kobe also played with a great player in Shaq. Kobe could rest on offense when all we had to do was dump the ball into Shaq and let him go to work. Kobe won 3 titles out of it.

The fact is though, that MJ did win more titles. His stats dont lie, he was very efficient and seemingly never had a bad year. He stepped up when it mattered the most. He could not be stopped on offense. Was just way too fast for anyone to stay in front of. And was a great man defender and help defender. He really had no holes in his game besides 3 point shooting, but could make them if his team really needed it.

Believe me, I love Kobe's game. But we have to be honest. He might have the same skill set of MJ, but it has not produced the same results. It does not make Kobe any less of a great player. He is still the second best 2 guard in my opinion. But he is not MJ. Neither is Lebron or Wade. They just aren't

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 02:54 AM
Lakers are missing jack compared to 2 starters, one of which was playing at an All Star level before he went down.

That wasn't my point, the game was "big" for both teams, the Cavs were not downplaying this game at all. Injuries are apart of the game, every team goes through them. You can't tell me that Lebron James as competitive as he is, didn't want to win this game. It was a "big" game for both teams, period...

DreamShaker
01-20-2009, 02:54 AM
Dont get me wrong MJ was great no doubt and the first to do what he did But he also had one of the top 50 players paying along side of him pippen was no scrub i just find it highly doubtful that MJ would be as highly regarded if he was in his prime and played now a days i think he'd be just another super star sharing the spotlight with Kobe and Lebron and wade. I mean Wilt Averaged 50 for a season did't he? And hes not considered the best ever? Now people argue well MJ was a better Defensive player and he was a great Defensive player but com'on he wouldn't shut down Kobe or Lebron do you think he would and do you honestly think MJ would become who he is today if he played now a days? With the 6 titles and all that he acheieved would he do all that now a days?? Ask yourself and answer that honestly

The Pippen argument doesnt hold water considering Kobe had Shaq all those years....and Shaq scooped up all 3 Finals MVP's....everybody has help....

MJ was also much tougher than Kobe....and why couldn't he shut down Kobe?? If you were to say Jerry West couldnt guard Kobe or somebody from a totally different era yeah I could kinda see where your going but MJ won 2 titles while Kobe played and alot of the same players, coaches, and styles overlapped....MJ retired 10 years ago not 50....and even that Wizards run where he was 40 and barely trying he still got over 20PPG and nearly willed an atrocious team to the playoffs....

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 02:55 AM
That wasn't my point, the game was "big" for both teams, the Cavs were not downplaying this game at all. Injuries are apart of the game, every team goes through them.

I don't think it was a big game for either team. I don't think it's much of a barometer. It's one game in January where neither team is really all that healthy. LeBron is clearly playing hurt. Kobe played hurt and missing a few minor players. Cavs are missing two starters. I just don't think it was as big of a game as some of you guys do.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 02:58 AM
I don't think it was a big game for either team. I don't think it's much of a barometer. It's one game in January where neither team is really all that healthy. LeBron is clearly playing hurt. Kobe played hurt and missing a few minor players. Cavs are missing two starters. I just don't think it was as big of a game as some of you guys do.

The Lakers play the Cavs only twice during the season, I am quite sure the Cavs wanted this game just as much as LA. If you are a competitor, you want to win the game especially against a team that you may face in the Finals.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 02:59 AM
The Lakers play the Cavs only twice during the season, I am quite sure the Cavs wanted this game just as much as LA. If you are a competitor, you want to win the game especially against a team that you may face in the Finals.

I never said they didn't want to win. I said it wasn't a big game. You want to WIN every game. If you're arguing that both teams wanted to win, yes, I agree with you.

G-Funk
01-20-2009, 03:00 AM
Anytime the top teams play it's going to be an important game...

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 03:00 AM
The Pippen argument doesnt hold water considering Kobe had Shaq all those years....and Shaq scooped up all 3 Finals MVP's....everybody has help....

MJ was also much tougher than Kobe....and why couldn't he shut down Kobe?? If you were to say Jerry West couldnt guard Kobe or somebody from a totally different era yeah I could kinda see where your going but MJ won 2 titles while Kobe played and alot of the same players, coaches, and styles overlapped....MJ retired 10 years ago not 50....and even that Wizards run where he was 40 and barely trying he still got over 20PPG and nearly willed an atrocious team to the playoffs....

You would be very wrong there. Kobe is one of the toughest players in the game. He always plays hurt. He does not back away from the challenge. He asks for the challenge. Kobe is just as tough as MJ. I dont see what would make you say otherwise

DCB/LAL
01-20-2009, 03:02 AM
The Pippen argument doesnt hold water considering Kobe had Shaq all those years....and Shaq scooped up all 3 Finals MVP's....everybody has help....

MJ was also much tougher than Kobe....and why couldn't he shut down Kobe?? If you were to say Jerry West couldnt guard Kobe or somebody from a totally different era yeah I could kinda see where your going but MJ won 2 titles while Kobe played and alot of the same players, coaches, and styles overlapped....MJ retired 10 years ago not 50....and even that Wizards run where he was 40 and barely trying he still got over 20PPG and nearly willed an atrocious team to the playoffs....

Yes kobe did have shaq and thats my point they have that in common that nither one without their number 2 guy although Kobe came close to beating the suns in series pretty much by himself you look at the numbers Kobe has put up in his career and some of those got over looked especially by the media and robbing him of MVPs he should of had I beleive he is the best of played the game and when its all said and done i believe Lebron will go dowm as the best with Kobe being second to him

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:03 AM
I never said they didn't want to win. I said it wasn't a big game. You want to WIN every game. If you're arguing that both teams wanted to win, yes, I agree with you.

The game was big from a standpoint that Cleveland wanted to see how they matchup against LA. (I know they don't have Big Z and Delonte) This is a potential finals matchup and these two teams only play twice a year, they want to have an edge in the win column. Also, both teams have 2 of the best records in their respective conferences.

*My thing is, everyone was saying Cleveland had a statement game when they beat Boston just a few wks ago. without Big Z, but if they loose to a contender, we hear that it wasnt a quote, "Big" game for Cleveland to win. People have to be "consistent" with their arguments.... If you are a competitior you want to win.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:06 AM
You would be very wrong there. Kobe is one of the toughest players in the game. He always plays hurt. He does not back away from the challenge. He asks for the challenge. Kobe is just as tough as MJ. I dont see what would make you say otherwise

Agreed. MJ was better, but Kobe is one of the toughest players I have ever seen, bar none.... There is no question the man plays through any kind of pain. Most players would have left the game tonight, but Kobe simply had his finger popped back into place and proceeded to drop 20 pts and 12 assists in the game tonight.

fresh prince
01-20-2009, 03:17 AM
1. Kobe is the best player in the NBA STILL! he just doesnt need to show it every night because his whole team is good.

2. best officiated game ive seen since the early 90's - late 80's. No ticky-tac fouls, no star treatment, if you drove the lane and you created the contact there was no whistle.

That was absolutely beautiful..They bailed LBJ out on a couple of those in the 4th but it wasn't nearly as bad as usual..

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:20 AM
That was absolutely beautiful..They bailed LBJ out on a couple of those in the 4th but it wasn't nearly as bad as usual..

The refs actually let the players play today, it reminded me of the 80's and early 90's, the game was free flowing and physical. I miss the old style of the NBA, we need more games to be "officiated" the way this one was.

fresh prince
01-20-2009, 03:22 AM
Cavs need to get healthy again....and how did Kobe prove he was better than Lebron tonight??? That's like saying Pierce is better than Kobe because of the Finals game 6 last year....

Not nearly the same....Kobe still has the thrown of "Games best player" Kobe and Lebron are (1-2 or 1-1a) in some order in almost everyone's book...Paul Pierce is not in the top 5

Morgan
01-20-2009, 03:32 AM
I will argue it all i want i say Kobe is the best and we can go back forth and yes they may of won back to back they were that good!! See the problem is everyone is one MJs D**k that they wont admit it I dont care who says what MJ would not be as great if he played now a days just another super star period!

That's ridiculous to even say Kobe is better than Jordan. You bring up Jordan played with Pippen but, who else did he play with? Bill Cartwright, John Paxon, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong? Cmon. Nobody Else could win 6 titles with those Bulls teams. Even Kobe said it's stupid to even compare them.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-20-2009, 03:38 AM
That's ridiculous to even say Kobe is better than Jordan. You bring up Jordan played with Pippen but, who else did he play with? Bill Cartwright, John Paxon, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong? Cmon. Nobody Else could win 6 titles with those Bulls teams. Even Kobe said it's stupid to even compare them.

You forgot Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr.

Kobe also played with Horace Grant and Ron Harper. Just about 5 to 10 years older.

NFLNBA
01-20-2009, 04:05 AM
Lakers are missing jack compared to 2 starters, one of which was playing at an All Star level before he went down.


LOL West wouldnt start on 3 quarters of NBA teams


1. West isnt that good, he isnt any better then Farmer

2. Big Z is a pretty good player and he is missed, he is a better player then Walton who the Lakers are missing

3. Kobe now has to bad fingers on his shooting hand and played hurt, dont say Lebron played hurt cause he acted like a ****** when him and Ariza bumped heads, he wasnt hurt. Also Odom is playing through a bruised knee, injuries happen but thats why the Lakers so good because they are DEEP.

4. Both teams wanted this bad, you could tell! Kobe said he wanted to guard Lebron and take the challenge and thats what he did. 2 of the top 4 teams going at it is BIG trust me!

cahawk
01-20-2009, 04:39 AM
So, if Laker fans apply the same logic to kobe injury as they do to their opponents like Pierce, Lebron, Wade and all other opponents that threaten them.
It would sound something like this:

kobe wasn't hurt he was just acting like an ********* when him & Lebron bumped.
kobe wasn't hurt he was faking it.
If really hurt he would go to locker room & not come back.
He's just showboating
If kobe was really hurt he wouldn't come right back in & play....it was all an act.

Personally, I don't care for that type of sour grapes attacks.
The players don't even know if & how badly they are injured. Sometimes you think you are done & your playing fine in a few minutes, other times you think it's nothing and next day you find out you are out for weeks or months. I really don't think these guys fake much and I think are often playing with a variety of nagging injuries.
And a game like tonight especially because it was very physical (good for the home team & usually bad for the visiting team).
Personally, I enjoy the games being more physical & the stars not protected.

As far as the game, Lakers showed they can win 1 out of last 6 games against Cavs.
They also showed they can play physical & rough, which is required in playoffs usually.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
01-20-2009, 04:45 AM
LOL West wouldnt start on 3 quarters of NBA teams


1. West isnt that good, he isnt any better then Farmer

2. Big Z is a pretty good player and he is missed, he is a better player then Walton who the Lakers are missing

3. Kobe now has to bad fingers on his shooting hand and played hurt, dont say Lebron played hurt cause he acted like a ****** when him and Ariza bumped heads, he wasnt hurt. Also Odom is playing through a bruised knee, injuries happen but thats why the Lakers so good because they are DEEP.

4. Both teams wanted this bad, you could tell! Kobe said he wanted to guard Lebron and take the challenge and thats what he did. 2 of the top 4 teams going at it is BIG trust me!

West could start on a lot of teams. He is averaging 12ppg which is pretty solid when you are a fourth option. Z and West were are more important to Cleveland then Walton and Farmar.

Z would have helped majorly on defense and offense. West would have been a tough scrappy player like always is. He also can score pretty well if needed. The guy has dropped good amounts of points almost always if eith Mo or Z aren't at their games.

I give the Lakers credit for the win, but am not holding it to heart at all. I feel we would have done much better with 2 out of are 5 starters injured.

Lost Art
01-20-2009, 05:05 AM
Cavs need to get healthy again....and how did Kobe prove he was better than Lebron tonight??? That's like saying Pierce is better than Kobe because of the Finals game 6 last year....

One game doesn't prove anything, nor do these hyped "head-to-head" matchups. Success on the court (championships) and the longevity of a players dominance dictate a players status.

........but there is no denying that Kobe played one hell of a game tonight :D

And can we stop with the Jordan comparisons? Kobe is Kobe. Lebron is Lebron. And Jordan doesn't play basketball anymore. Case closed.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2009, 05:30 AM
Mmm west... start.... he can play both guar positions.....

Toronto yes as sg.

Knicks maybe....

Sixers NO

Celtics NO

Nets NO

Bobcats NO

Hawks NO

Magic...maybe at sg

Heat YES pg.

Wizzards NO

Pistons NO

BUlls NO

Bucks Maybe but difficult

Pacers NO

Lakers NO

CLippers NO

Suns NO

Warriors once ellis is healed NO

Kings Yes pg.

Mavs NO

Spurs NO

Rockets NO

Grizzlies NO

Hornets NO

Blazers yes PG

Okc NO

Denver NO

Jazz NO

Wolves maybe....

GspLAL
01-20-2009, 05:32 AM
So, if Laker fans apply the same logic to kobe injury as they do to their opponents like Pierce, Lebron, Wade and all other opponents that threaten them.
It would sound something like this:

kobe wasn't hurt he was just acting like an ********* when him & Lebron bumped.
kobe wasn't hurt he was faking it.
If really hurt he would go to locker room & not come back.
He's just showboating
If kobe was really hurt he wouldn't come right back in & play....it was all an act.

Personally, I don't care for that type of sour grapes attacks.
The players don't even know if & how badly they are injured. Sometimes you think you are done & your playing fine in a few minutes, other times you think it's nothing and next day you find out you are out for weeks or months. I really don't think these guys fake much and I think are often playing with a variety of nagging injuries.
And a game like tonight especially because it was very physical (good for the home team & usually bad for the visiting team).
Personally, I enjoy the games being more physical & the stars not protected.

As far as the game, Lakers showed they can win 1 out of last 6 games against Cavs.
They also showed they can play physical & rough, which is required in playoffs usually.

Except you can actually notice Kobe was hurt, he didn't come back fresh as can be like Pierce did. When he would dribble down the court he would use his left hand, passed it with his left hand a few times also. Even after the game when Kobe and Lebron were hugging you can see Kobe's hand turned so his finger didnt hit Lebrons back or anything.

When Ariza & Lebron bumped, that looked like it might have hurt but it also looked exaggerated, I mean after it happened Ariza ran down the court and dunked it while Lebron was still on the other side of the court.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
01-20-2009, 10:37 AM
Mmm west... start.... he can play both guar positions.....

Toronto yes as sg.

Knicks maybe....

Sixers NO

Celtics NO

Nets NO

Bobcats NO

Hawks NO

Magic...maybe at sg

Heat YES pg.

Wizzards NO

Pistons NO

BUlls NO

Bucks Maybe but difficult

Pacers NO

Lakers NO

CLippers NO

Suns NO

Warriors once ellis is healed NO

Kings Yes pg.

Mavs NO

Spurs NO

Rockets NO

Grizzlies NO

Hornets NO

Blazers yes PG

Okc NO

Denver NO

Jazz NO

Wolves maybe....

Regardless West starts for Cleveland, and is a important piece of the success. I still think he would have impacted the game enough just like Z to possibly get Cleveland a win.

JJ81
01-20-2009, 10:41 AM
Kobe's strengthening his case for DPOY.

bostncelts34
01-20-2009, 11:14 AM
So, if Laker fans apply the same logic to kobe injury as they do to their opponents like Pierce, Lebron, Wade and all other opponents that threaten them.
It would sound something like this:

kobe wasn't hurt he was just acting like an ********* when him & Lebron bumped.
kobe wasn't hurt he was faking it.
If really hurt he would go to locker room & not come back.
He's just showboating
If kobe was really hurt he wouldn't come right back in & play....it was all an act.

Personally, I don't care for that type of sour grapes attacks.
The players don't even know if & how badly they are injured. Sometimes you think you are done & your playing fine in a few minutes, other times you think it's nothing and next day you find out you are out for weeks or months. I really don't think these guys fake much and I think are often playing with a variety of nagging injuries.
And a game like tonight especially because it was very physical (good for the home team & usually bad for the visiting team).
Personally, I enjoy the games being more physical & the stars not protected.

As far as the game, Lakers showed they can win 1 out of last 6 games against Cavs.
They also showed they can play physical & rough, which is required in playoffs usually.

Haha i love it. thank you.

bostncelts34
01-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Except you can actually notice Kobe was hurt, he didn't come back fresh as can be like Pierce did. When he would dribble down the court he would use his left hand, passed it with his left hand a few times also. Even after the game when Kobe and Lebron were hugging you can see Kobe's hand turned so his finger didnt hit Lebrons back or anything.

When Ariza & Lebron bumped, that looked like it might have hurt but it also looked exaggerated, I mean after it happened Ariza ran down the court and dunked it while Lebron was still on the other side of the court.


Lol pierce didnt come out fresh. Yea he hit some big shots, but he was not running 100%, he was favoring the knee.

DrDEADalready
01-20-2009, 11:26 AM
That game has nothing to do with whos more worthy of a MVP. Lebron is still better than kobe. stats don't lie.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
LeBron James 39 39 37.2 .497 .287 .777 1.30 5.90 7.20 6.6 2.05 1.28 3.13 2.00 27.6

Kobe Bryant 40 40 36.4 .476 .359 .858 1.20 4.40 5.60 5.1 1.33 .38 2.93 2.30 27.0

Frrrrank!!!
01-20-2009, 11:36 AM
So, if Laker fans apply the same logic to kobe injury as they do to their opponents like Pierce, Lebron, Wade and all other opponents that threaten them.
It would sound something like this:

kobe wasn't hurt he was just acting like an ********* when him & Lebron bumped.
kobe wasn't hurt he was faking it.
If really hurt he would go to locker room & not come back.
He's just showboating
If kobe was really hurt he wouldn't come right back in & play....it was all an act.

Personally, I don't care for that type of sour grapes attacks.
The players don't even know if & how badly they are injured. Sometimes you think you are done & your playing fine in a few minutes, other times you think it's nothing and next day you find out you are out for weeks or months. I really don't think these guys fake much and I think are often playing with a variety of nagging injuries.
And a game like tonight especially because it was very physical (good for the home team & usually bad for the visiting team).
Personally, I enjoy the games being more physical & the stars not protected.

As far as the game, Lakers showed they can win 1 out of last 6 games against Cavs.
They also showed they can play physical & rough, which is required in playoffs usually.

:clap:

camador22
01-20-2009, 11:51 AM
Neither one of them was specatular last night. To me Wade is the best player on the planet even though he's not leading the MVP race. What I find funny is no one here ever really mentions Gasol or how great he really is. To me J.J and Gasol or by far the 2 most underrated players in the league. At this point I personally believe Gasol>KG. Kobe's an amazing player but Wade and Lebron are simply better.

favre_4life
01-20-2009, 11:59 AM
Lebron= nowhere near Kobe yet. Sorry Cavs fans, but it's time to man up and admit the truth. Kobe= Best player in the world overral. But, D-Wade is having the best season of the three.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Neither one of them was specatular last night. To me Wade is the best player on the planet even though he's not leading the MVP race. What I find funny is no one here ever really mentions Gasol or how great he really is. To me J.J and Gasol or by far the 2 most underrated players in the league. At this point I personally believe Gasol>KG. Kobe's an amazing player but Wade and Lebron are simply better.

Right now Gasol has 6.5 Win Shares and Kobe has 6.5 Win Shares as well. Looks like they are equally important to the success of the team.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 12:18 PM
Lebron= nowhere near Kobe yet. Sorry Cavs fans, but it's time to man up and admit the truth. Kobe= Best player in the world overral. But, D-Wade is having the best season of the three.

Where did you get he was no where near as good, when in fact he has been statistically better in the season and playoffs?

Iron24th
01-20-2009, 12:23 PM
Where did you get he was no where near as good, when in fact he has been statistically better in the season and playoffs?

At least last night,on face to face,Kobe has always taken the advantage on Lebron,on D he forced Lebron to make stupid turnovers or bad decisions,and on offense he makes many shots in his face.

That was nice to see that,Kobe is still the best closer actually,but Lebron's time will come.

younggunn113
01-20-2009, 12:31 PM
Kobe showed even with an injury he was able to dial it up in the 4th and hit some big shots. He also covered Lebron essentially the whole game, while Lebron picked and choosed when he's defend Bryant. Wade is having the best season statistically, but he's not on the same level as these two. When Kobe was in a similar situation he averaged 35/4.5/5.3 and shot 45% from the field. Wade is averaging 29/7.4/5 while shooting 47% percent. I dont think Wade could average 35 a game if he tried. Kobe showed he was the best player on the planet when he had 4 straight 50 point games (6 total) and had 27 40 point games. He was also first team all defense. If you dont think Kobe could still play at that level I think youre wrong. He doesnt have to though with this team around him. Kobe also locked down Wade the last time they played, including holding him scoreless for the final 7 minutes of a close game.

madiaz3
01-20-2009, 12:51 PM
So, if Laker fans apply the same logic to kobe injury as they do to their opponents like Pierce, Lebron, Wade and all other opponents that threaten them.
It would sound something like this:

kobe wasn't hurt he was just acting like an ********* when him & Lebron bumped.
kobe wasn't hurt he was faking it.
If really hurt he would go to locker room & not come back.
He's just showboating
If kobe was really hurt he wouldn't come right back in & play....it was all an act.

Personally, I don't care for that type of sour grapes attacks.
The players don't even know if & how badly they are injured. Sometimes you think you are done & your playing fine in a few minutes, other times you think it's nothing and next day you find out you are out for weeks or months. I really don't think these guys fake much and I think are often playing with a variety of nagging injuries.
And a game like tonight especially because it was very physical (good for the home team & usually bad for the visiting team).
Personally, I enjoy the games being more physical & the stars not protected.

As far as the game, Lakers showed they can win 1 out of last 6 games against Cavs.
They also showed they can play physical & rough, which is required in playoffs usually.

Wow you're really trying hard there.
Kobe did NOT go to the locker room & then return.
Kobe had an actual injury that was widely known on that same hand, people have a reason to have some concern as to whether he finally aggravated it to a further injury.
Acting as if you could not walk is not the same as acting....well, Kobe didn't do anything close to that did they?
1 out of the last 6 games, are you pretending as if that matters? 2 matchups a year is not very much to go on, and 6 matchups ago the Lakers did had Kwame and Smush in the starting lineups did they not? Why don't I talk about the Knicks last 12 games vs the Celtics and include the pre-big-3 seasons? Makes a ton of sense.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 12:54 PM
Kobe showed even with an injury he was able to dial it up in the 4th and hit some big shots. He also covered Lebron essentially the whole game, while Lebron picked and choosed when he's defend Bryant. Wade is having the best season statistically, but he's not on the same level as these two. When Kobe was in a similar situation he averaged 35/4.5/5.3 and shot 45% from the field. Wade is averaging 29/7.4/5 while shooting 47% percent. I dont think Wade could average 35 a game if he tried. Kobe showed he was the best player on the planet when he had 4 straight 50 point games (6 total) and had 27 40 point games. He was also first team all defense. If you dont think Kobe could still play at that level I think youre wrong. He doesnt have to though with this team around him. Kobe also locked down Wade the last time they played, including holding him scoreless for the final 7 minutes of a close game.

Why would Wade need to average 35 ppg on 45% when he can do that in the finals when everything is at stake?

Also how did Kobe exactly show he was the best simply by having 50+ games and 40+ games? Losing series where you are up 3-1 and having a team 1 game from elimination doesn't help a players case for being the best when you lose especially when that team had a 6'8" guy playing center.
Also those years he didn't lead the league in Win Shares either which means how responsible one player is for his team winning.
Now I am not going to say he didn't have a strong case for being the best, but when people try to use that he averaged more than anyone or he scored this in the season then how does that prove he was better especially when having a coach who never lost in the 1st round before?

In the head to head matchups this year, Wade has played better than Kobe. He has shot a better fg%, scored more, gotten more assists, more rebounds, more steals and more blocks. Did Kobe do a good job on Wade? Well for a few minutes he did, but really who on Miami can even score or make plays other than Wade?
Even when Wade blows past him, the Lakers have those 2 seven footers around who can stop the penetration. In yesterday's game against the Cavs, Lebron was just getting to the rim with relative ease, it was just the twin towers that was altering his shot and had him missing shots he usually makes.

favre_4life
01-20-2009, 01:12 PM
Where did you get he was no where near as good, when in fact he has been statistically better in the season and playoffs?

Did you watch the game? Kobe abused Lebron offensively and defensivley.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 01:14 PM
Did you watch the game? Kobe abused Lebron offensively and defensivley.

Did you watch the game? Lebron was just blowing past him and the lane was clogged with Gasol and Bynum and that is why Lebron couldn't score.

GspLAL
01-20-2009, 01:42 PM
Why would Wade need to average 35 ppg on 45% when he can do that in the finals when everything is at stake?

Also how did Kobe exactly show he was the best simply by having 50+ games and 40+ games? Losing series where you are up 3-1 and having a team 1 game from elimination doesn't help a players case for being the best when you lose especially when that team had a 6'8" guy playing center.
Also those years he didn't lead the league in Win Shares either which means how responsible one player is for his team winning.
Now I am not going to say he didn't have a strong case for being the best, but when people try to use that he averaged more than anyone or he scored this in the season then how does that prove he was better especially when having a coach who never lost in the 1st round before?

In the head to head matchups this year, Wade has played better than Kobe. He has shot a better fg%, scored more, gotten more assists, more rebounds, more steals and more blocks. Did Kobe do a good job on Wade? Well for a few minutes he did, but really who on Miami can even score or make plays other than Wade?
Even when Wade blows past him, the Lakers have those 2 seven footers around who can stop the penetration. In yesterday's game against the Cavs, Lebron was just getting to the rim with relative ease, it was just the twin towers that was altering his shot and had him missing shots he usually makes.

First off the fact that they were up 3-1 against Suns that year is amazing on its own, everyone knows Kobe completely carried that team to the playoffs and then some, so we Laker fans are greatful that we even saw the playoffs, but I guess the outsiders think Kobe had a good enough team to lead them to the finals right?

Then you say people who use his average to justify he's the best are wrong, but then you bring up Wade's statistics to justify that he's playing better, last I checked basketball is a team game not who's better 1v1. Then you say who on Miami can score, well who on Lakers back in 06 can score??

philab
01-20-2009, 01:47 PM
At least last night,on face to face,Kobe has always taken the advantage on Lebron,on D he forced Lebron to make stupid turnovers or bad decisions,and on offense he makes many shots in his face.

That was nice to see that,Kobe is still the best closer actually,but Lebron's time will come.

Great game by the Lakers and Kobe last night.

That bolded part, however, is not true. Before the game, they showed the head-to-head statistics -- LeBron was averaging more points, a better FG%, and more rebounds (the only stats shown) in head-to-head matchups prior to last night. Additionally, the Cavaliers had won 6 of 9 against the Lakers when both LeBron and Kobe played.

That's not proof of anything at all. It does, however, disprove your bolded comment above.


And again, great game by Kobe and the Lakers -- they certainly were the better team last night.

what54!?
01-20-2009, 01:53 PM
well shows that lebron still needs to work on that jumper of his. But I do think the refs didn't give the cavs a lot of foul calls they should of had.....

Kenny
01-20-2009, 01:53 PM
lmao, Lebron has won the last 5 meetings and outplayed kobe every team.. Now the lakers finally win and the lebron haters come out.. The Lakers hsould win at home when the cavs have there 3rd and 4th best players out..

Bring The Heat
01-20-2009, 02:13 PM
In my opinion everything that Jordan Bulls says makes sense...Wade right now is the best all around player in the league so far this season and if u think otherwise you are only kidding yourself...the guy goes after everything on the defense ends and comes up with big plays

Also wanted to point out last night I saw Kobe really wanted that game playing through the pain of that dislocated finger...Gasol looks like hes getting tougher down there in the post so good sign for laker fans

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 02:30 PM
Right now Gasol has 6.5 Win Shares and Kobe has 6.5 Win Shares as well. Looks like they are equally important to the success of the team.

If you honestly believe that, you have lost a lot of crediblility as a "respectable" poster. Gasol is the 2nd option on the team, clearly. Kobe is the most important player on the team. Come on JB, you are better than that.

*Also, since when is it a crime to have a legit 2nd option, every great team/championship team needs a good 2nd option? Jordan had Pippen, Magic had Kareem, the list goes on, everyone seems to want to downplay Kobe as if it's a crime for him to have a good team and a legit no. 2 guy. The Celtics' current team has 3 future hall of famers.

The Lakers have a talented team right now, but Kobe is the clear-cut leader of the team and is playing at an MVP level and none of you guys can dispute that.....

fresh prince
01-20-2009, 02:37 PM
Right now Gasol has 6.5 Win Shares and Kobe has 6.5 Win Shares as well. Looks like they are equally important to the success of the team.

WIn SHares doesn't take into consideration how easy Kobe makes Pau's life.. Pau gets the easiest looks of any borderline super star in the history of the league due to playing with Kobe.

He would never have alot of his 11/13 and 12/ 15 nights if it wasn't for #24

Just replayed last nights game and counted 6 wide open butt naked J's Pau knocked down either off a direct assist or hockey assist that Kobe created..

That happens regularly. Taking nothing away from Pau he is a great player but he thrives offensively alot of the times off of what Kobe creates..and its not the other way around

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 02:39 PM
Wow. This thread is EPIC fail.

As I feared, people actually think Kobe "shut down" LeBron when in fact, LBJ was blowing past him at will...the problem is that the Lakers had the lane clogged with 3 bigs and early on, they were hammering LeBron with no foul.

Thus, LeBron was an idiot and stopped driving until late in the game when it was out of hand. Lebron was bad last night but it was hardly because of Kobe.

NYMetros
01-20-2009, 02:39 PM
In my opinion everything that Jordan Bulls says makes sense...Wade right now is the best all around player in the league so far this season and if u think otherwise you are only kidding yourself...the guy goes after everything on the defense ends and comes up with big plays

Also wanted to point out last night I saw Kobe really wanted that game playing through the pain of that dislocated finger...Gasol looks like hes getting tougher down there in the post so good sign for laker fans

And LeBron and Kobe Bryant don't do that, too?

Bryant is putting up great stats with other guys on his team that need their touches. Wade doesn't have another player on his team at the caliber of Pau Gasol. Bryant also is shooting at a higher FG percentage than Wade is.

LeBron is considered by many to be the DPOY this season. He shut down Paul Pierce last time they played. LeBron, too, is shooting at a higher FG% than Wade.

You have to be kidding yourself if you think Wade is playing better than Lebron and Kobe right now.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 02:40 PM
WIn SHares doesn't take into consideration how easy Kobe makes Pau's life.. Pau gets the easiest looks of any borderline super star in the history of the league due to playing with Kobe.

He would never have alot of his 11/13 and 12/ 15 nights if it wasn't for #24

Just replayed last nights game and counted 6 wide open butt naked J's Pau knocked down either off a direct assist or hockey assist that Kobe created..

That happens regularly. Taking nothing away from Pau he is a great player but he thrives offensively alot of the times off of what Kobe creates..and its not the other way around

Thank you, no one considers how Kobe makes Gasol a better player, but they want to flip it around and say Gasol is making him better. Gasol is a terrific player, but Kobe draws most of the attention on offense allowing for guys like Lamar, Pau and Dru to perform a whole lot better......

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 02:53 PM
WIn SHares doesn't take into consideration how easy Kobe makes Pau's life.. Pau gets the easiest looks of any borderline super star in the history of the league due to playing with Kobe.

He would never have alot of his 11/13 and 12/ 15 nights if it wasn't for #24

Just replayed last nights game and counted 6 wide open butt naked J's Pau knocked down either off a direct assist or hockey assist that Kobe created..

That happens regularly. Taking nothing away from Pau he is a great player but he thrives offensively alot of the times off of what Kobe creates..and its not the other way around

It is a two way street. Kobe has begun shooting his highest % ever with Gasol on the team.

fresh prince
01-20-2009, 02:55 PM
Thank you, no one considers how Kobe makes Gasol a better player, but they want to flip it around and say Gasol is making him better. Gasol is a terrific player, but Kobe draws most of the attention on offense allowing for guys like Lamar, Pau and Dru to perform a whole lot better......

Its common sense really.. Its the one thing that the Hollinger dorks forget about when looking up Win Shares an PER..

The common sense to dissect a mathematical equation and interpret its flaws as opposed to just relying on the flawed numeric assumptions of an equation..

It's a robotic and clone like way to evaluate a very subjective game.

And true heads will know that Common, Kanye and The Roots were all referenced in this post!

:p

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 02:56 PM
If you honestly believe that, you have lost a lot of crediblility as a "respectable" poster. Gasol is the 2nd option on the team, clearly. Kobe is the most important player on the team. Come on JB, you are better than that.

*Also, since when is it a crime to have a legit 2nd option, every great team/championship team needs a good 2nd option? Jordan had Pippen, Magic had Kareem, the list goes on, everyone seems to want to downplay Kobe as if it's a crime for him to have a good team and a legit no. 2 guy. The Celtics' current team has 3 future hall of famers.

The Lakers have a talented team right now, but Kobe is the clear-cut leader of the team and is playing at an MVP level and none of you guys can dispute that.....

I didn't say anything about Gasol being the leader on the team or the best player did I? What did I say in the post? I said that that Gasol and Kobe both have the same amount of win shares for the team at the moment at 6.5 and that they both are thus equally important because of it.

I'm not sure why you are bringing the 2nd option into this because no one said anything about it.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 03:01 PM
It is a two way street. Kobe has begun shooting his highest % ever with Gasol on the team.

So you are saying Kobe gets better looks at the basket with Gasol? He had way better looks when Shaq was on the team. Kobe is taking better shots and that is why his FG% is going up.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:03 PM
I didn't say anything about Gasol being the leader on the team or the best player did I? What did I say in the post? I said that that Gasol and Kobe both have the same amount of win shares for the team at the moment at 6.5 and that they both are thus equally important because of it.

I'm not sure why you are bringing the 2nd option into this because no one said anything about it.

Win shares, come on? You are loosing all credibility with that. Kobe is making that team win. What were some of the other great players win shares without having another good player on the team??? It's a team game and it takes more than one person to win, but for you to say that Gasol is just as important to them winning is mind blowing???

fresh prince
01-20-2009, 03:04 PM
It is a two way street. Kobe has begun shooting his highest % ever with Gasol on the team.

I think he'll drop back to his usual 45 to 46%..Once the year is done..

He was nearly automatic with his jumper for about 3 weeks. And that had absolutely nothing to do with Pau Gasol

Pau is not keeping any attention off of Kobe. He is still facing 2 and 3 defenders and rarely is single covered

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:05 PM
Win shares, come on? You are loosing all credibility with that. Kobe is making that team win. What were some of the other great players win shares without having another good player on the team??? It's a team game and it takes more than one person to win, but for you to say that Gasol is just as important to them winning is mind blowing???

How so? I support everything by actual numbers and stats. And no matter what someone wants to believe, the numbers show that both players are equally important.

Do you even know what a win share is?

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:06 PM
You do know that it takes more than one player to win a title, correct??? Jordan didn't win a thing without Pippen, but I won't dare say Pippen was just as important as him!! Same for Bird, Magic, any other great.....

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:10 PM
How so? I support everything by actual numbers and stats. And no matter what someone wants to believe, the numbers show that both players are equally important.

Do you even know what a win share is?

Ask anyone with basketball knowledge who is the most important player on the Lakers and they will tell you it's Kobe without question.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:10 PM
You do know that it takes more than one player to win a title, correct??? Jordan didn't win a thing without Pippen, but I won't dare say Pippen was just as important as him!! Same for Bird, Magic, any other great.....

A Win Share is defined here:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312763&highlight=Shares

Yeah, Pippen was so important to the Bulls that some years he was 3rd on the team in Win Shares behind Grant. In fact, in Pippen's rookie year he had a negative Offensive Win Shares which means he hurt the team more than he helped them. That is defined in the link above.

Face the fact that when you look at the list of guys who have lead the league in Win Shares, it is a fascinating list.

The fact remains that Gasol and Kobe this year thus far have the same amount of win shares for the team.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:13 PM
A Win Share is defined here:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312763&highlight=Shares

Yeah, Pippen was so important to the Bulls that some years he was 3rd on the team in Win Shares behind Grant. In fact, in Pippen's rookie year he had a negative Offensive Win Shares which means he hurt the team more than he helped them. That is defined in the link above.

Face the fact that when you look at the list of guys who have lead the league in Win Shares, it is a fascinating list.

The fact remains that Gasol and Kobe this year thus far have the same amount of win shares for the team.

I know what a win share is, and I also know that Scottie Pippen was an all league defender, a top 50 all time great, dream teamer, all nba 1st and 2nd team many times and was the 2nd best player on the Bulls team. No Pippen, no titles, period.... It works the same for any great 1/2 punch....

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:16 PM
I know what a win share is, and I also know that Scottie Pippen was an all league defender, a top 50 all time great, dream teamer, all nba 1st and 2nd team many times and was the 2nd best player on the Bulls team. No Pippen, no titles, period.... It works the same for any great 1/2 punch....

He was 3rd on the team in Win Shares in 1992 and 1993. Grant had a higher Win Share amount.
I know how good Pippen became as well, initially however his effect had a negative effect on the team as his OWS was in the negative.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:18 PM
It is a two way street. Kobe has begun shooting his highest % ever with Gasol on the team.

You do know that he played with a man named Shaq, who made his life a heck of a lot easier, prior to Gasol (who is a 2nd option guy). Kobe is taking better shots, that is why his fg% is up.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 03:19 PM
He was 3rd on the team in Win Shares in 1992 and 1993. Grant had a higher Win Share amount.
I know how good Pippen became as well, initially however his effect had a negative effect on the team as his OWS was in the negative.

They wouldn't hove won those titles without PIP, so I think the end result was positive.:D

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:21 PM
He was 3rd on the team in Win Shares in 1992 and 1993. Grant had a higher Win Share amount.
I know how good Pippen became as well, initially however his effect had a negative effect on the team as his OWS was in the negative.

Who was the better player, Grant or Pippen?? It's laughable that they are in the same discussion at this point. I know Jordan didn't start winning until his entire team got better, but Pippen was "clearly" the Bulls 2nd best player.

The year Jordan retired, Pippen took that Bulls team to the 2nd round of the playoffs and won 50 plus games.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:21 PM
They wouldn't hove won those titles without PIP, so I think the end result was positive.:D

I don't think you are following. Pippen had a negative OWS in 1988. We didn't win the title that year.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 03:23 PM
I don't think you are following. Pippen had a negative OWS in 1988. We didn't win the title that year.

I thought you were talking about 92 and 93.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:23 PM
Who was the better player, Grant or Pippen?? It's laughable that they are in the same discussion at this point. I know Jordan didn't start winning until his entire team got better, but Pippen was "clearly" the Bulls 2nd best player.

The year Jordan retired, Pippen took that Bulls team to the 2nd round of the playoffs and won 50 plus games.

Pippen led them in Win Shares for the season, while Grant in the playoffs in 1994 led the team in Win Shares with BJ 2nd. All of which were guys who made the allstar team.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:25 PM
I thought you were talking about 92 and 93.

I was in part, but I also said initially which means when he was first around the team.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:27 PM
Pippen led them in Win Shares for the season, while Grant in the playoffs in 1994 led the team in Win Shares with BJ 2nd. All of which were guys who made the allstar team.

The point is, Pippen was clearly the best player that year and led that team to the 2nd round. All of the other guys you mentioned are not hall of fame players, so the win share argument goes out of the door for that year.

BJ and Horace were good, championship level role players.

If I am not mistaken, Pippen led that team in all most every statistical category for that season.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:29 PM
The point is, Pippen was clearly the best player that year and led that team to the 2nd round. All of the other guys you mentioned are not hall of fame players, so the win share argument goes out of the door for that year.

BJ and Horace were good, championship level role players.

Both Horace and BJ made the allstar team that year. Since when is an allstar a role player?


Anyway, this thread has gone completely off topic.


Time to get back on topic.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:31 PM
Both Horace and BJ made the allstar team that year. Since when is an allstar a role player?


Anyway, this thread has gone completely off topic.


Time to get back on topic.

One all star game for both Horace and BJ does not make them all star type of players and you know that. Both were clearly role-players, it's not even a debate

Hellcrooner
01-20-2009, 03:34 PM
What kind of discussion is this? Kobe makes gasol "better" because he gets him more open lookes.

Gasol makes kobe " better" because he provides him a reliable scoring option he can pass the ball too, his assists stats are up since gasol is on the team.

KObe was a hell of a player by himself ..that couldnt make it out the first round.

Gasol was a hell of a player by himself ...that couldnt make it out of the first round.

OK now they are togheter they both make better the other and now they can WIN a ring.

KObe is the leader of the team and Pau is the Key guy whats the problem with that?.


In a way you could even say Pau is most "important" to the team success since we all know kObe is going to ditch 30 points every night and any way so he is the REGULAR key the piece you can rely on and its Pau who hodls the key, he has an off night lakes lose he does his work then lakers win ( anyone noticed ALL lakers defeats this year were BAD gasol games and kobe being kobe?

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 03:34 PM
Both Horace and BJ made the allstar team that year. Since when is an allstar a role player?


Anyway, this thread has gone completely off topic.


Time to get back on topic.

Nick Van Exel
Jamal Magloire
Ben Wallace

sp1derm00
01-20-2009, 03:34 PM
If you ever watch Laker games, Kobe sets up Pau Gasol with incredibly easy baskets. I don't think Pau does anything similar for Kobe on a regular basis.

Kobe's FG% has improved because he has improved his jumper. He has stated that he's been working on his jumper because of what Boston did to him defensively last year. He believes that if he improves his jumper, he's going to be a lot harder to stop offensively. Mission accomplished.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:35 PM
One all star game for both Horace and BJ does not make them all star type of players and you know that. Both were clearly role-players, it's not even a debate

Every other year they were, but in 1994 they weren't. They were key especially in the playoffs. That is why their shares were higher.

sp1derm00
01-20-2009, 03:36 PM
One all star game for both Horace and BJ does not make them all star type of players and you know that. Both were clearly role-players, it's not even a debate

Gasol has only had one all-star game under his belt. Is he a role player as well?

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:36 PM
What kind of discussion is this? Kobe makes gasol "better" because he gets him more open lookes.

Gasol makes kobe " better" because he provides him a reliable scoring option he can pass the ball too, his assists stats are up since gasol is on the team.

KObe was a hell of a player by himself ..that couldnt make it out the first round.

Gasol was a hell of a player by himself ...that couldnt make it out of the first round.

OK now they are togheter they both make better the other and now they can WIN a ring.

KObe is the leader of the team and Pau is the Key guy whats the problem with that?.


In a way you could even say Pau is most "important" to the team success since we all know kObe is going to ditch 30 points every night and any way so he is the REGULAR key the piece you can rely on and its Pau who hodls the key, he has an off night lakes lose he does his work then lakers win ( anyone noticed ALL lakers defeats this year were BAD gasol games and kobe being kobe?

When you are the 2nd best player on the team, you are not as "important" as the no. 1 guy, it's not even a debate. Gasol is very important to the lakers' success, not disputing that, but he's not their most important player, period....

Hellcrooner
01-20-2009, 03:37 PM
+ people underates Pau a lot.

With this same team if Pau got injured the whole season lakers would make like a 48-34 season.

With Kobe injured the whole season they could still do a 42-40 Record.

ITs the mix of both wich leads to 60 +wins.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:37 PM
If you ever watch Laker games, Kobe sets up Pau Gasol with incredibly easy baskets. I don't think Pau does anything similar for Kobe on a regular basis.

Kobe's FG% has improved because he has improved his jumper. He has stated that he's been working on his jumper because of what Boston did to him defensively last year. He believes that if he improves his jumper, he's going to be a lot harder to stop offensively. Mission accomplished.


Sure Gasol does because now you really can't double Kobe much at all anymore. Gasol's presence down low enables Kobe to run free on the wing.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:38 PM
+ people underates Pau a lot.

With this same team if Pau got injured the whole season lakers would make like a 48-34 season.

With Kobe injured the whole season they could still do a 42-40 Record.

ITs the mix of both wich leads to 60 +wins.

I wouldn't say all of that, but I do agree the records would be fairly close.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2009, 03:39 PM
God if i werent a laker fan i would love for Lakers to trade Gasol for Boozer straight up, then you would REALLY KNOW what gasol brings to the table.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:39 PM
Gasol has only had one all-star game under his belt. Is he a role player as well?

Gasol's career averages are far superior to both Grant and BJ, what are you talking about??? BJ and Grant don't even compare to a player like Gasol who led his team to a 50 win season prior to his arrival in LA.

I wasn't talking about Pau, he's a a top player in the NBA. Both Grant and BJ were never considered top players in the league, but were good, champioship role players...

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Gasol has only had one all-star game under his belt. Is he a role player as well?

Jermaine O'neal has had 6 and he was no better than Gasol.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:41 PM
God if i werent a laker fan i would love for Lakers to trade Gasol for Boozer straight up, then you would REALLY KNOW what gasol brings to the table.

Gasol is critical to the Lakers' success, you are missing the point. He is their 2nd most important player.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:44 PM
+ people underates Pau a lot.

With this same team if Pau got injured the whole season lakers would make like a 48-34 season.

With Kobe injured the whole season they could still do a 42-40 Record.

ITs the mix of both wich leads to 60 +wins.

Both guys are needed to win, Kobe needs a great sidekick like any other hall of famer.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:46 PM
God if i werent a laker fan i would love for Lakers to trade Gasol for Boozer straight up, then you would REALLY KNOW what gasol brings to the table.

I know that we needed him to step up in the Finals and he gave us 14ppg, his numbers went down after every round of the playoffs, but that's off topic, I can't believe we are even debating who is more important to the lakers' success?

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 03:47 PM
You have to be joking. So, you are saying that the Lakers would perform better with Gasol as the primary player, assuming Kobe got injured? And if the shoe were on the other foot, the Lakers with Odom and Bynum as Kobe's supporting cast would only win 42 games nowadays??? Wow

No. He said they would win more with only Kobe.

Lakersfan2483
01-20-2009, 03:49 PM
No. He said they would win more with only Kobe.

My mistake.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2009, 03:56 PM
^In any case, both scenarios woudl lead to the team being spanked out in the first round.

Vidball
01-20-2009, 04:07 PM
lol...its funny to read all this anti-Kobe/anti-Laker posts in this thread. The Lakers just demolished the best team in the East while an injured Kobe held LeBron to 36% from the field...end of story!

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 04:10 PM
lol...its funny to read all this anti-Kobe/anti-Laker posts in this thread. The Lakers just demolished the best team in the East while an injured Kobe held LeBron to 36% from the field...end of story!

No. Kobe did not stop LeBron. If you think that game would have gone even remotely the same way if the Cavs had Z and West you're sorely mistaken. Credit the big men of the Lakers for clogging the lane and James not getting any calls until late. James was an idiot and decided to start taking jumpers rather than keep driving. Please, watch the game next time.

Lakers won fair and square and nobody is taking anything away from them. Stop acting like Kobe played man on Lebron the whole game and "shut him down" (he actually scored more points than Kobe) or that the Lakers just won the Finals.

For the first time in what, 4 tries? The Lakers finally beat the Cavs, who this time were injured badly. Nice job. Good win for LA. Now, we have another whole half of a season to play, get to it.

kingkobe
01-20-2009, 04:25 PM
No. Kobe did not stop LeBron. If you think that game would have gone even remotely the same way if the Cavs had Z and West you're sorely mistaken. Credit the big men of the Lakers for clogging the lane and James not getting any calls until late. #1. James was an idiot and decided to start taking jumpers rather than keep driving. Please, watch the game next time.

Lakers won fair and square and nobody is taking anything away from them. Stop acting like Kobe played man on Lebron the whole game and "shut him down" (#2. he actually scored more points than Kobe) or that the Lakers just won the Finals.

For the first time in what, 4 tries? The Lakers finally beat the Cavs, who this time were injured badly. Nice job. #3. Good win for LA. Now, we have another whole half of a season to play, get to it.

For #1. Haha you sound like one those people in denial. Good job on calling the Best player on the team you are trying to defend an idiot. And on top of that what a shi**y excuse. "oh lebron decided to be an idiot". Try giving credit to the laker bigs.

For #2. Kobe had a broken freaking finger (sure it was dislocated and it was fixed but it's a huge handicap). You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing that up. I don't think I need to say anymore than he had a broken finger. If you had a brain you'd realize how hard it is to play the game of Basketball with a broken finger on your shooting hand.

For #3. As for the good win. Yes, it was a good win. And this thread is about this game so why should we completely ignore the game and "get to" the rest of the season. If you want to do that then go ahead and don't post here. Take the loss like a man and stop making lame excuses. And also wtf is whole half of a season anyways? It's either whole or half.

Vidball
01-20-2009, 04:39 PM
^^^lol...another LeBron 'witness' writing pointless drivel. Btw I'll take Kobes 20p/12a production over LeBron's production for sure. He needed to take 25 shots in order to make 9 of them.

GspLAL
01-20-2009, 04:43 PM
for #1. haha you sound like one those people in denial. Good job on calling the best player on the team you are trying to defend an idiot. and on top of that what a shi**y excuse. "oh lebron decided to be an idiot". Try giving credit to the laker bigs.

For #2. Kobe had a broken freaking finger (sure it was dislocated and it was fixed but it's a huge handicap). You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing that up. I don't think i need to say anymore than he had a broken finger. If you had a brain you'd realize how hard it is to play the game of basketball with a broken finger on your shooting hand.

For #3. As for the good win. Yes, it was a good win. And this thread is about this game so why should we completely ignore the game and "get to" the rest of the season. If you want to do that then go ahead and don't post here. Take the loss like a man and stop making lame excuses. and also wtf is whole half of a season anyways? It's either whole or half.

rofl

NYMetros
01-20-2009, 04:48 PM
No. Kobe did not stop LeBron. If you think that game would have gone even remotely the same way if the Cavs had Z and West you're sorely mistaken. Credit the big men of the Lakers for clogging the lane and James not getting any calls until late. James was an idiot and decided to start taking jumpers rather than keep driving. Please, watch the game next time.

Lakers won fair and square and nobody is taking anything away from them. Stop acting like Kobe played man on Lebron the whole game and "shut him down" (he actually scored more points than Kobe) or that the Lakers just won the Finals.

For the first time in what, 4 tries? The Lakers finally beat the Cavs, who this time were injured badly. Nice job. Good win for LA. Now, we have another whole half of a season to play, get to it.

Using points in an argument is pointless. It's a direct product of how often you shoot. LeBron shot 3 times more than Kobe and the refs bailed him out more often. Of course he will have more points.

LeBron also had 6 TO's. Not efficient at all.

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:09 PM
Kobe Bryant held Lebron James to 3 for 16 shooting. I'm reading these posts saying that Lebron scored more points or Kobe got help, etc.

All invalid. ONE ON ONE. We are talking about purely straight up. Lebron shot 3 for 16 against Kobe Bryant (6 for 9 against other defenders). Lebron could not do anything against Bryant. Also, Bryant played Lebron mostly straight up. The Lakers did not double. The only time there were switches or doubles were when the Cavs dictated it by playing pick and roll. The Lakers scheme is designed to switch or double during P & R. Nothing special. Kobe told Phil he wanted to deny the ball to Lebron and he took him up and did it.

This is why Kobe Bryant is the unquestioned best perimeter defender in the NBA (who also has to carry an offense; not talking about specialists) in my opinion. He plays the best man on man defense in the entire league (I'm not talking about the fancy block highlights on SportsCenter that Lebron gets...I'm talking about gritty defense).

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:15 PM
No. Kobe did not stop LeBron. If you think that game would have gone even remotely the same way if the Cavs had Z and West you're sorely mistaken. Credit the big men of the Lakers for clogging the lane and James not getting any calls until late. James was an idiot and decided to start taking jumpers rather than keep driving. Please, watch the game next time.

Lakers won fair and square and nobody is taking anything away from them. Stop acting like Kobe played man on Lebron the whole game and "shut him down" (he actually scored more points than Kobe) or that the Lakers just won the Finals.

For the first time in what, 4 tries? The Lakers finally beat the Cavs, who this time were injured badly. Nice job. Good win for LA. Now, we have another whole half of a season to play, get to it.

1. Kobe stopped Lebron. 3 for 16 shooting. If that is not stopping to you then you are just a Lebron James fan. Oh wait... :smoking:

2. The Lakers didn't need to clog the lane. Kobe played great defense and Lebron could barely get in the paint. He didn't deserve any call he didn't get. Not to mention he got away with a couple offensive fouls. Stop making excuses as well. Lebron James got away with 5 hand-checks on Bryant (yes, I watch every game over again and count these things). I don't see Laker fans complaining about that.

3. He DID play man on man and he did SHUT him down. Lebron scored less points than Kobe when matched up together.

4. L-O-L. Nice excuse. I LOVE the injury excuse. Do you want an excuse? The last time the Lakers played the Cavs, Gasol, Bynum, and Ariza did NOT play. The time before that, Gasol did not play. The time before that, Gasol did not play and Kwame Brown was the Lakers main center. The time before that, Gasol did not play and Kwame Brown was the Lakers main center. Think before you pull out that kind of excuse.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:15 PM
For #1. Haha you sound like one those people in denial. Good job on calling the Best player on the team you are trying to defend an idiot. And on top of that what a shi**y excuse. "oh lebron decided to be an idiot". Try giving credit to the laker bigs.

Uh, yes, James acted like an idiot for taking jumpers. I don't care if he isnt getting calls, he needs to keep driving. Me saying that WAS giving credit to the Lakers bigs who could clog the paint because there was no Z.


For #2. Kobe had a broken freaking finger (sure it was dislocated and it was fixed but it's a huge handicap). You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing that up. I don't think I need to say anymore than he had a broken finger. If you had a brain you'd realize how hard it is to play the game of Basketball with a broken finger on your shooting hand.

Great to hear. Lebron has an injured arm/shoulder. Why bring stupid stuff like this up? Quit circle jerking to Kobe Bryant. The game was hyped as Kobe vs Lebron, two players I Love, but it was more about everyone else than it was about the two stars. Stop being a honk.


For #3. As for the good win. Yes, it was a good win. And this thread is about this game so why should we completely ignore the game and "get to" the rest of the season. If you want to do that then go ahead and don't post here. Take the loss like a man and stop making lame excuses. And also wtf is whole half of a season anyways? It's either whole or half.

Most of this doesn't even warrant a reply because you're just being a little ***** sissy and trying to start stuff, and I'm not going to bite. "wtf"? Where are your commas? Okay, call the grammar police, scrub. The rest of us will be talking sports.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:16 PM
1. Kobe stopped Lebron. 3 for 16 shooting. If that is not stopping to you then you are just a Lebron James fan. Oh wait... :smoking:

2. The Lakers didn't need to clog the lane. Kobe played great defense and Lebron could barely get in the paint. He didn't deserve any call he didn't get. Not to mention he got away with a couple offensive fouls. Stop making excuses as well. Lebron James got away with 5 hand-checks on Bryant (yes, I watch every game over again and count these things). I don't see Laker fans complaining about that.

3. He DID play man on man and he did SHUT him down. Lebron scored less points than Kobe when matched up together.

4. L-O-L. Nice excuse. I LOVE the injury excuse. Do you want an excuse? The last time the Lakers played the Cavs, Gasol, Bynum, and Ariza did NOT play. The time before that, Gasol did not play. The time before that, Gasol did not play and Kwame Brown was the Lakers main center. The time before that, Gasol did not play and Kwame Brown was the Lakers main center. Think before you pull out that kind of excuse.

Kobe didnt guard Lebron the whole game. The Lakers bigs stopped Lebron. Done deal.

As for those past Cavs victories over the Lakers, uh, go show me the Cavs roster that consisted of Drew Gooden, Laura Hughes, and Daniel Gibson and then come back and whine about no Gasol. The Cavs team was vastly inferior to what they are now (as were the Lakers).

I love losers who act like there were no bad calls and everything was officiated perfectly. Give me a break. the home team always gets calls. If that Sasha flagrant was, well, a flagrant, then so was Bynum smacking lebron's head. Called? Nope. People like you are hilarious.

JordansBulls
01-20-2009, 05:17 PM
1. Kobe stopped Lebron. 3 for 16 shooting. If that is not stopping to you then you are just a Lebron James fan. Oh wait... :smoking:

2. The Lakers didn't need to clog the lane. Kobe played great defense and Lebron could barely get in the paint. He didn't deserve any call he didn't get. Not to mention he got away with a couple offensive fouls. Stop making excuses as well. Lebron James got away with 5 hand-checks on Bryant (yes, I watch every game over again and count these things). I don't see Laker fans complaining about that.

3. He DID play man on man and he did SHUT him down. Lebron scored less points than Kobe when matched up together.

4. L-O-L. Nice excuse. I LOVE the injury excuse. Do you want an excuse? The last time the Lakers played the Cavs, Gasol, Bynum, and Ariza did NOT play. The time before that, Gasol did not play. The time before that, Gasol did not play and Kwame Brown was the Lakers main center. The time before that, Gasol did not play and Kwame Brown was the Lakers main center. Think before you pull out that kind of excuse.

Lebron was blowing past Kobe and getting into the lane whenever he wanted.
Now it was quite obvious that Kobe played him to the point that whenever Lebron drove he would be in the paint where Gasol and Bynum would be waiting, but still he got into the lane whenever he wanted.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 05:17 PM
Kobe didnt guard Lebron the whole game. The Lakers bigs stopped Lebron. Done deal.

Cavs lost and Kobe had a better stat line than Lebron. Done deal.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:19 PM
Cavs lost and Kobe had a better stat line than Lebron. Done deal.

Thanks for your contribution. if you actually watch the games though instead of whoring box scores like you obviously do, though, it's much more interesting.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:19 PM
Lebron was blowing past Kobe and getting into the lane whenever he wanted.
Now it was quite obvious that Kobe played him to the point that whenever Lebron drove he would be in the paint where Gasol and Bynum would be waiting, but still he got into the lane whenever he wanted.

THANK YOU.

:clap:

Lebron beat Kobe every time. The problem is with no Z, the Lakers could clog the paint with 7 footers and Lebron would have no chance.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 05:22 PM
Thanks for your contribution. if you actually watch the games though instead of whoring box scores like you obviously do, though, it's much more interesting.

I watched. The Cavs lost, Kobe played better than Lebron on both ends of the floor and played D on Lebron for almost the whole game, and Lebron did for about a qtr. Good luck dropping to 3rd in the east without Big Z (since he is the reason the Cavs lost). The Cavs won't make it out of the East without home court.

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Lebron was blowing past Kobe and getting into the lane whenever he wanted.
Now it was quite obvious that Kobe played him to the point that whenever Lebron drove he would be in the paint where Gasol and Bynum would be waiting, but still he got into the lane whenever he wanted.

What constitutes as whenever he wanted, JB? If I'm not mistaken, there was a fast-break where Lebron was barreling down the lane and Kobe got right in front of him and prevented the break.

But, wait, Lebron didn't want to. Ever stop to think that Kobe frustrated him. Ever stop and replay the game 3 times and notice that Kobe Bryant played 3 to 5 feet off of Lebron in half-court, deep shot clock situations to prevent Lebron from driving thus forcing Lebron to shoot outside shots.

I don't think so.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:25 PM
I watched. The Cavs lost, Kobe played better than Lebron on both ends of the floor and played D on Lebron for almost the whole game, and Lebron did for about a qtr. Good luck dropping to 3rd in the east without Big Z (since he is the reason the Cavs lost). The Cavs won't make it out of the East without home court.

Ok bud. You're obviously just trying to provoke people, so do yourself a favor an fk off. Good to hear your analysis on the Cavs and glad you finally admit not having Z (second most valuable player to the Cavs), the Cavs didnt have a chance.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:25 PM
What constitutes as whenever he wanted, JB? If I'm not mistaken, there was a fast-break where Lebron was barreling down the lane and Kobe got right in front of him and prevented the break.

But, wait, Lebron didn't want to. Ever stop to think that Kobe frustrated. Ever stop and replay the game 3 times and notice that Kobe Bryant played 3 to 5 feet off of Lebron in half-court, deep shot clock situations to prevent Lebron from driving thus forcing Lebron to shoot outside shots.

I don't think so.

I remember that one instance very clearly actually. I'm glad you brought it up. Was it Kobe who prevented him from getting inside, or was it the herd of big men clogging the paint behind Kobe that dissuaded Lebron?

You decide.

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:26 PM
Kobe didnt guard Lebron the whole game. The Lakers bigs stopped Lebron. Done deal.

As for those past Cavs victories over the Lakers, uh, go show me the Cavs roster that consisted of Drew Gooden, Laura Hughes, and Daniel Gibson and then come back and whine about no Gasol. The Cavs team was vastly inferior to what they are now (as were the Lakers).

I love losers who act like there were no bad calls and everything was officiated perfectly. Give me a break. the home team always gets calls. If that Sasha flagrant was, well, a flagrant, then so was Bynum smacking lebron's head. Called? Nope. People like you are hilarious.

He didn't guard Lebron the whole game. Lebron was 6 for 9 when Kobe was not guarding Lebron. What don't you get.

The Lakers had Smush and Kwame. Go cry about Gooden and Gibson. I would take them ANY DAY of the week over the pile of crap that the Lakers put in front of me for three years.

You are hilarious. Lebron was NOT hit in the head. Watch the replay. Bynum grazed his shoulder and chin. It was NOT a flagrant. Sasha Pavlovic bludgeoned Ariza across the head; a straight up vicious head...

It's not my fault that Ariza takes it like a man rather than flail his arms in the air and hold his head ON EVERY SINGLE PLAY...I'm not talking about anyone specific by the way. :smoking:

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:28 PM
He didn't guard Lebron the whole game. Lebron was 6 for 9 when Kobe was not guarding Lebron. What don't you get.

The Lakers had Smush and Kwame. Go cry about Gooden and Gibson. I would take them ANY DAY of the week over the pile of crap that the Lakers put in front of me for three years.

You are hilarious. Lebron was NOT hit in the head. Watch the replay. Bynum grazed his shoulder and chin. It was NOT a flagrant. Sasha Pavlovic bludgeoned Ariza across the head; a straight up vicious head...

It's not my fault that Ariza takes it like a man rather than flail his arms in the air and hold his head ON EVERY SINGLE PLAY...I'm not talking about anyone specific by the way. :smoking:

Oh lord, are you SERIOUS?

I talk to a ton of Lakers fans and even they admitted that probably should be called a flagrant! :rolleyes:

It didnt decide the game so it's not worth yelling at you about, but it just shows how ridiculous some of you view these games.

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:28 PM
I remember that one instance very clearly actually. I'm glad you brought it up. Was it Kobe who prevented him from getting inside, or was it the herd of big men clogging the paint behind Kobe that dissuaded Lebron?

You decide.

The big men hadn't come back yet my friend (noticed that on the 2nd replay I believe). Kobe bodied up Lebron and forced him to go to the right wing. Lebron proceed to go to his left where he met Kobe and the big mean in the middle of the paint and he clanked the shot off the rim shooting a tough shot.

Great perimeter defense.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 05:30 PM
Ok bud. You're obviously just trying to provoke people, so do yourself a favor an fk off. Good to hear your analysis on the Cavs and glad you finally admit not having Z (second most valuable player to the Cavs), the Cavs didnt have a chance.

It still goes in the L column.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:31 PM
It still goes in the L column.

Smartest thing you said all thread. You will never catch me arguing that the Cavs didnt lose the game. :rolleyes:

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Oh lord, are you SERIOUS?

I talk to a ton of Lakers fans and even they admitted that probably should be called a flagrant! :rolleyes:

It didnt decide the game so it's not worth yelling at you about, but it just shows how ridiculous some of you view these games.

I'm sure you just made that up.

OK. Just got back from watching it again. Just like I said before. Bynum hits his shoulder and grazes him. No flagrant. Ariza gets absolutely knocked straight across the entirety of his head. Possibly a flagrant 2.

Gibby23
01-20-2009, 05:43 PM
You're the one crying to mods and asking for me to be "banned" because I called you out on the stupid stuff you're saying. But okay. I'll roll with it. I won't bite on that.



Blah blah, personal attack to start off, no need for me to say anything there.

As for the sports-portion of your argument (the minority of it), thanks for pretty much confirming what I said: neither played particularly well, and Kobe let his supporting cast win the game (12 assists).

Thanks. I'm glad we agree now.

by the way, I am "lebron nut sucking" (nice terminology broseph), what are you doing? I mean, at least I dont have Lebron in my screen name, right? Sounds to me like you're just as big a Kobe circle jerker as I am a lebron "nut sucker", so why even bother bringing it up?
Kind of off topic, but if I had to pick, I would rather circle jerk with my own hand than suck on Lebrons nuts.:D

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm sure you just made that up.

OK. Just got back from watching it again. Just like I said before. Bynum hits his shoulder and grazes him. No flagrant. Ariza gets absolutely knocked straight across the entirety of his head. Possibly a flagrant 2.

Nope. I didn't make it up. But then again, there are Lakers fans who are actually intelligent, and thoughtful, and know a flagrant when they see it. Again, it didn't decide the game, so it isn't worth arguing about but no, I'm not lying. Believe what you want though.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:45 PM
Kind of off topic, but if I had to pick, I would rather circle jerk with my own hand than suck on Lebrons nuts.:D

:clap:

What's the over/under on Kobe nut sucking, though? Ah geez, shouldnt go there.

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:47 PM
Nope. I didn't make it up. But then again, there are Lakers fans who are actually intelligent, and thoughtful, and know a flagrant when they see it. Again, it didn't decide the game, so it isn't worth arguing about but no, I'm not lying. Believe what you want though.

You made it up.

Believe what I want? I'll believe what I see buddy. I LOVE DVR. :D

kingkobe
01-20-2009, 05:47 PM
Kind of off topic, but if I had to pick, I would rather circle jerk with my own hand than suck on Lebrons nuts.:D

Hahaha...nice nice. Post of the thread.

kingkobe
01-20-2009, 05:48 PM
You made it up.

Believe what I want? I'll believe what I see buddy. I LOVE DVR. :D

Don't waste your time man. He's delusional.

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:50 PM
You made it up.

Believe what I want? I'll believe what I see buddy. I LOVE DVR. :D

Ok buddy, "I made it up". I'll copy and paste some thoughts from both Lakers and Cavs fans and you can tell me I made them all up.

Lakers fans:


yea, other than that missed flagrant call, and like 3-4 calls that LeBron didnt get I thought the game was pretty well officiated as in letting them play ball instead of blowing the whistle on every ticky-tack foul. A couple of calls didnt go our way either, but the free throws weren't a deciding factor. We won this game strictly on us dominating the paint and Sashas outside shooting


i dont know why all the cleveland fans are complaining about the calls. its the NBA, you know when the lakers go to cleveland, Lebron's gonna go to the line like 30 times and kobe wont get **** for calls. this is not surprising at all.

Oh and the cavs actually shot 4 MORE free throws than the lakers in this game.


I just call this a win

if both teams were 100 % healthy, AND we won THEN it would be a GOOD win

Cavs fans:


Yeah. Refs didn't decide the game, but I'm glad you admit that one in particular was awful.

Anyways, good game, I suppose. I'd wager it'd be a lot closer if Big Z and Delonte were in, but such is life in the NBA. Injuries happen, no excuse for becoming a jump shooting clinic. Cavs have a long ways to go.

Like I said, I can see the Cavs falling to the 4th seed.


Cleveland isn't going to be Cleveland for another six weeks when we get our players healthy.

Good win for the Lakers, though.

'Kay, yeah, I just made all that up. :rolleyes:

ARMIN12NBA
01-20-2009, 05:51 PM
Ok buddy, "I made it up". I'll copy and paste some thoughts from both Lakers and Cavs fans and you can tell me I made them all up.

Lakers fans:







Cavs fans:





'Kay, yeah, I just made all that up. :rolleyes:

Only one guy said it was a flagrant foul and I KNOW he doesn't have DVR and/or recorded the game in HD. :D

cmstophe
01-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Only one guy said it was a flagrant foul and I KNOW he doesn't have DVR and/or recorded the game in HD. :D

Right, I forgot, you're the only one with DVR. ;) State of the art, baby! Can you tell me where to find that? :rolleyes:

And two guys actually said it, but I doubt that changes your mind. It's useless to argue, I wont change your mind, but I just wanted to show you I wasnt making **** up.

macc
01-20-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm just glad Lakers won this game and by quite a bit. Cav's hung in there for about 3 1/2 quarters but that was it. Lakers blew them out after that. I'm glad they won for 2 reasons. 1) My Orlando has the best record in the NBA and 2) I'm sick of hearing how great the Cav's are. They are a great team but they have beat alot of bad teams this year. They haven't had a very tough schedule up to this point.

In any case, thank you Lakers for putting the Cav's in their place.