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Nikolishin
01-12-2009, 08:58 PM
to see the tigers have done basically nothing at all to make this team better

mark1125
01-12-2009, 11:38 PM
I wouldn't sazy they have done nothing, but they haven't addressed their biggest weakness. Laird, Jackson, and Everett addresse particular needs, but the bullpen is a mess and nothing has been done yet. that suprises me. They still have time, but names are disappearing.

Sheffies Chef
01-13-2009, 12:04 AM
to see the tigers have done basically nothing at all to make this team better

...quite the contrary my dear Niko.

The Tigers had 3-4 Problems that needed to be addressed this offseason.

They were:

-Catcher (defensively sound)
-Shortstop (defensively sound)
-Bullpen
-Rotation maybe

So far, Dave Dombrowski has some deals this offseason.

They were:

-Catcher (defensively sound)
-Shortstop (defensively sound)
-Rotation

The only thing that DD has neglected is the bullpen, which was a big problem. I would however, have more confidence than most people in this same 'pen as last year, because we have shored up the infield defense. One of the things that really killed us last year, was unforced runs by errors from guys in the infield. Renteria disappointed (even by his standards lol), Inge wasn't the full time 3Bman until way too late, Polanco had a down year by his standards, and Big Cabby was learning the position. So by adding one of, if not the best, fielding shortstops in the game today, by moving Inge to the position where he is best defensively, Polanco will still be a Gold Glove candidate at 2B, and Cabrera will mature enough to the point of being considered as a G.G. candidate... possibly. Plus, it doesn't hurt having Gerald Laird behind the plate who works with pitchers very well, calls a good game, and is a very solid defensive catcher. Also, new Pitching Coach Rick Knapp, emphasizes, and I mean EMPHASIZES control from his pitchers, won't hurt our boys either.

So to say that DD has done nothing to improve the team is absolutely absurd, and I hope to have educated you enough for you to see reason.

Shef

Sheffies Chef
01-13-2009, 12:05 AM
That is one confusing post lol.

If you can understand that point through and through... get yourself a big ol' cookie.

Shef

theoldgoalie
01-15-2009, 01:14 PM
Inge back at 3B is a HUGE plus, regardless of his bat. The pitching staff looks to be healthy and Cabrera is going to much more comfortable in his spot. If Guillen and Sheffield can stay healthy, that would be a huge plus and Everitt is NOT a step backward at SS. We don't need strong hitters in the 1-9 spots in the lineup, Minnesota proves that time and time again. We need good defense and production where it counts in the Tiger's case it is in the 1-7 spots which ain't all that bad. Knapp is the key....he is going to be a HUGE addition to the coaching staff and will truly help the pitching staff. I am out here in North Dakota which is considered "Twins Country" and they were truly sad to see him go. He is a big reason they have such a deep pitching staff with both the main club and out in Rochester. Trust me guys.....The bull pen WILL BE BETTER this year and you will see guys perform that you never expected. I expect great things out of the likes of Lambert, Dolsi, and Fein and wouldn't be surprised to see guys like Rapada and Mcbride get better as well. We need to save some of our money and develop our pitching prospects, because Guillen, Ordonez and Sheffield aren't getting any younger. And if we spend all of our money on FA pitchers (FOR BULLPEN DUTY!!!!), how are we going to replace the other guys?

Sheffies Chef
01-15-2009, 09:11 PM
exactly goalie. I believe 100% that Knapp was the biggest "free agent" signee of this offseason. The wonders he's worked are amazing. Remember, the likes of Santana, Liriano, Blackburn, and others have come from Knapp. I'm excited to see him work with Justin, Jeremy, Edwin, D-Train, Nate, Minor, and all the others. Hell, maybe he can help Rodney get outta his funk. Because when Rodney's on, he's on.

Nikolishin
01-18-2009, 12:55 AM
i mean i hope were sweet i think we will take frst this year for sure

Sam_Quentin
01-18-2009, 11:06 AM
I like the Laird and Everett moves, however my two big issues with DD so far this offseason is #1 obviously the pen and #2 the Edwin Jackson trade. I have no problem with trading Joyce, but mark my words Jackson is going to be terrible. I dont understand why a team who's arms have serious control issues go and acquire another wild guy....and one who's not even good to begin with. One decent year and the rest atrocious. I like Knapp but he's not a miracle worker...the control problems arent just going to disappear. I would have rather traded Joyce for a reliever. Year after year we continue to deal assets, but not acquire any pen help.

mark1125
01-18-2009, 11:45 AM
I like the Laird and Everett moves, however my two big issues with DD so far this offseason is #1 obviously the pen and #2 the Edwin Jackson trade. I have no problem with trading Joyce, but mark my words Jackson is going to be terrible. I dont understand why a team who's arms have serious control issues go and acquire another wild guy....and one who's not even good to begin with. One decent year and the rest atrocious. I like Knapp but he's not a miracle worker...the control problems arent just going to disappear. I would have rather traded Joyce for a reliever. Year after year we continue to deal assets, but not acquire any pen help.

I agree on Laird as he is a solid defensive cacther who has a little pop. Everett is dirt cheap and does what I ask of a SS. He plays defense and makes OK contact. If he plays GG caliber defesns, I can live with .230 out of a SS.

The jury is out on the Joyce/Jackson deal. I like Joyce and wanted to see him with a full season here, but oh well. Jackson may be on the upswing, but I don't think he will be more than a 4th starter. I would have rather had some bullpen help, but of course DD thinks we are good there. :rolleyes:

Sam_Quentin
01-18-2009, 12:13 PM
I agree on Laird as he is a solid defensive cacther who has a little pop. Everett is dirt cheap and does what I ask of a SS. He plays defense and makes OK contact. If he plays GG caliber defesns, I can live with .230 out of a SS.

The jury is out on the Joyce/Jackson deal. I like Joyce and wanted to see him with a full season here, but oh well. Jackson may be on the upswing, but I don't think he will be more than a 4th starter. I would have rather had some bullpen help, but of course DD thinks we are good there. :rolleyes:

My prediction is before the year's out Jackson will end up demoted to the pen. It just boggles the mind how an otherwise really good GM continues to utilize such a crappy pen. They have no problem dealing away prospects, but when it comes to any bullpen....its oh no the price is too high!! Its almost like the Lions and the way they continue to march out an O-line of bums and never learn. It seems their strategy is just to hope you'll get lucky with a few minor league guys.

Bondomania
01-18-2009, 06:41 PM
okay... do you even know Jackson's background? he was an outfielder in the Dodgers organization and he couldn't hit the curve ball so he switched to pitching because he has a cannon for an arm. The guy is still developing. i don't get how you can say the guy sucks.. look at his month to month stats.. the majority of the year he was below a 4 ERA. Two bad months damaged his ERA. At one point he was one of the hottest pitchers in the majors, and with the upside of a guy that can throw as hard as he does and drop the hammer like he has, is just ridiculous. We have Knapp, he will work with Jackson and i mean really we are only asking him to be a number 4 or 5 starter.. really, all we are essentially looking for is 12 to 15 wins. Not to mention, look at Jackson's stats as a reliever.. not very good.

The fact of the matter, is you wine about the BP.. so what did DD do, he went and drafted a TON of college closers last year. Perry has the stuff to close as of right now. Not to mention we have Fien, Darrow, Sborz, Satterwhite, Green and Jacobson that all project to be BP arms, and some of them can and most likely will contribute this year. Perry was hitting triple digits in fall ball with solid control. Sometimes his control does ellude him, but every reliever will go through a stretch or an outting like that.

Sam_Quentin
01-19-2009, 12:33 AM
okay... do you even know Jackson's background? he was an outfielder in the Dodgers organization and he couldn't hit the curve ball so he switched to pitching because he has a cannon for an arm. The guy is still developing. i don't get how you can say the guy sucks.. look at his month to month stats.. the majority of the year he was below a 4 ERA. Two bad months damaged his ERA. At one point he was one of the hottest pitchers in the majors, and with the upside of a guy that can throw as hard as he does and drop the hammer like he has, is just ridiculous. We have Knapp, he will work with Jackson and i mean really we are only asking him to be a number 4 or 5 starter.. really, all we are essentially looking for is 12 to 15 wins. Not to mention, look at Jackson's stats as a reliever.. not very good.

The fact of the matter, is you wine about the BP.. so what did DD do, he went and drafted a TON of college closers last year. Perry has the stuff to close as of right now. Not to mention we have Fien, Darrow, Sborz, Satterwhite, Green and Jacobson that all project to be BP arms, and some of them can and most likely will contribute this year. Perry was hitting triple digits in fall ball with solid control. Sometimes his control does ellude him, but every reliever will go through a stretch or an outting like that.

Im very aware of whats in the minors, but you dont how these guys will look in the majors. Guys like Darrow could get smashed...you dont roll the dice with f'n bums on your major league staff hoping unproven youngsters can be a ray of light. This pen needs proven major league pitchers...thats why im whining. Its filled with crap. Only guy i have legit hope for in the minors is Perry, the rest who the hell knows. Jay Sborz? Dude's been a huge disappointment forever and he finally does good in A ball and you're mentioning him? Come on.

With regards to Jackson, DD is in love with power arms no matter if theyre wild as hell. He just hopes theyll straighten out, i say Edwin will follow the disappointment path similar to that of Willis, thats my prediction. We'll see what happens. Im a die hard Tigers fan so im not rooting against him, but i dont see this working out. I know i have no way to prove this but i also told people Willis would be terrible...

Bondomania
01-19-2009, 01:01 AM
Willis is a different story. Willis was declining with his accuracy.. walk rates were going up and strike out rates were going down.. Also Willis was starting to fill out more and becoming less flexible, which hurts him with that wind up. Jackson didn't have as many strikeouts as many would think he would have, with the type of stuff he has. He still limited damage and could actually have better numbers because he won't be pitching the majority of his games on an indoor field which have a tendency to be faster fields than natural grass. Also, Jackson doesn't have a wild wind up like Willis. I haven't seen Jackson pitch a ton, i have seen him when he pitches against the tigers, and then i saw him come in, in relief in the playoffs for the Rays.

Everyone has to be given a chance to see what they can do. All those free agent closers were eventually given their shot at the major league level. That's all i am saying. The market for closers is ridiculous and the point i am simply trying to say is that we have guys that will be ready to pitch by the middle of this year or possible next year. We have to be able to develop our own talent too, instead of trying to go out and sign guys with injury historys, or guys that are losing their velocity, or guys that pitched a ton of innings the year past and might be worn out.

Also, since you seem fairly educated with the minor league system, you should know that relief prospects can move faster through a system then starters can. Starters have to build up IP and work on their 3rd and 4th pitches. Relief prospects just need to show that they can get outs at each level. Green, Satterwhite and Jacobson were all 1st round prospects at one point in their college careers. Also, Sborz was drafted out of high school and not everyone develops at the same rate. I was reading that Sborz battled injuries early in his pro career, and also had trouble controlling his emotions on the mound. He has worked to fix those things, and i think we saw a preview of what he has the potential to be if he is able to keep his composure on the mound and is able to control his stuff.

I mean we are all hoping they do well, i guess i just think Jackson can succeed, whereas you have your doubts and that is fine. Also, i was trying to single you out about the whining, i am refering to the fans at the ballpark, some posters on here... myself lol. I think that 2010 could be a repeat of 2006, with all that talent all kind of developing and making their major league debuts at the same time. Iorg, Porcello, Perry, Crosby, Strieby, and Weinhardt could all be here and contributing in a major way

Sam_Quentin
01-19-2009, 01:41 AM
Oh i completely agree on how relievers can be fast tracked MUCH quicker than starters. I was on the Tigers messageboard arguing that point for a couple weeks about Perry before i got fed up and left lol. Some dude tried to argue with me that Perry shouldnt called up to like 2011 and at the same time say that Porcello would be ready this year! Relievers and starters are just so different....you can bring up a minor league reliever almost immediately if he has 2 good pitches. I do have hope for Perry...but im just saying you gotta do SOMETHING if your the Tigers. Theyve been willing to spend and deal assets, but they always clam up when it comes to the pen all the time. The whole yearly faith in Zumaya and Rodney thing is really what steams me at the core. I guess the way i see it is i just want them to make another run right now, and when i look at the pen its like what the....! Then when the trade Joyce goes down its like hmmm....couldnt get a reliever for him???? I mean, hell give me Isringhausen,...question marks abound but at least i'll feel like theyre recognizing the weakness in some fashion.

Sborz was one of those guys who's stats i tracked all the time when we first got him....as i was pretty excited after the draft! I just ended up losing faith but i hope he can come through. That is a good point about being a high schooler, i guess when when a guys been in the minors for a while you start to think of him as being washed up rather than still young. Im not quite as educated on the minors as i used to be but i still have a pretty good grasp on whats down there. Darrow looks very intriguing, but again like ive been saying theres just no telling about guys in the minors. Could be lights out in the minors and just get rocked in the majors...

Oh and i just assumed you were singling me out since every post ive made since i joined this forum has been complaining about the pen :D (in particular Rodney and Zumaya)

JMDTM
01-19-2009, 03:11 AM
i really have not payed a ton of attention to what the tigers have done so far and dont really know all the guys they picked up good, but the things they did get helped them defensively for sure, and i think that the rotation moves we made may help our bullpen(by starters moving to the pen). i do believe we should pick up atleast one good RP though for the pen. i think this year will be a better year than last year atleast. and i hope Dontrelle gets his accuracy back. even if he goes to the pen, im happy with him back on his game, that is if he gets it back.


and just wondering, why wont DD bring a guy in like Juan Cruz or even a guy like Dennys Reyes. either way, the pen gets better. its not like it hurts anything

JMDTM
01-19-2009, 03:28 AM
word on tigers website is that Brandon Lyon is talking to detroit. like i said i dont know much of whats been going on so this is new to me

RicoSteel
01-19-2009, 09:15 AM
Yeah, I've read multiple places they are trying to the pull the trigger on a deal for Lyon and John Parrish this week. I could live with both of those.

JMDTM
01-19-2009, 01:03 PM
i mean it wouldnt do anything but help, as bad as our pen has been. and i hope that our hitters from a few years back, bring there bats this year including Shef.