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View Full Version : Grizzlies screw the Blazers. They sign Darius Miles to a 10 day contract



JordansBulls
01-10-2009, 01:06 AM
Commercialappeal (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jan/09/memphis-grizzlies-re-sign-darius-miles/)




TORONTO — Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace said Friday night the team has signed veteran forward Darius Miles to a 10-day contract.

Amid simmering controversy, the move sets the stage for Miles to continue a comeback attempt from major knee surgery and adversely affect his former team’s salary cap situation in the process.

Miles is expected in Memphis on Saturday. He has visited family in Mississippi since Tuesday when the Griz waived the 6-9 forward to avoid guaranteeing his contract for the rest of the season.

So Miles won’t have to travel far in order to put an exclamation point on an unprecedented NBA saga given the ramifications his return likely will have for the Portland Trail Blazers.

If Miles appears in two more games this season, the $18 million remaining on his salary will count against the Blazers’ salary cap. The development would make the Blazers a luxury-tax payer and limit their future free-agent spending.

ProdigyI
01-10-2009, 01:09 AM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

innovator
01-10-2009, 01:11 AM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

La11
01-10-2009, 01:17 AM
lol hahaha they were going to sign him all a long anyways...he waived him so they dont have that his salary in there cap. I like portland's team but the president DID A ***** move tho. 18 million is nothing for the owner WTF its pocket change

blams
01-10-2009, 01:17 AM
l ol

KH12
01-10-2009, 01:21 AM
hahahaha.

kingjames3403
01-10-2009, 01:22 AM
If the Grizzlies think hes worth something then by all means sign him. I'd say that he probably won't see the floor at all but it is the Grizzlies so anythings possible. It'd be great to have the Blazers have to pay that 18 million dollar contract. They shouldn't try to bully the league and say they'll file a grievance or whatever. The Blazers don't have the leverage so they should stop acting like they do.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-10-2009, 01:23 AM
Wow ballsy. I have my new second favorite team in the NBA. I love Chris Wallace. He gave us Pau and now he is screwing conference rivals. Awesome

Frrrrank!!!
01-10-2009, 01:25 AM
lol

mzgrizz
01-10-2009, 01:28 AM
WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW
I saw him play in the last game and he can play. 2 blocks and a few points in a few minutes;up and down the court easily. I am surprised, but then, not really! I think he can contribute here. We need all the help we can get!!!!

superkegger
01-10-2009, 01:38 AM
Any bets on if he stays on after the 10 days are up?

cegielskijastro
01-10-2009, 01:40 AM
Thats great for Miles, he's just trying to make it in the NBA, it's cool... Now the Blazers are bad guys, but it doesnt matter to me... I'm a Rockets fan...

KeithLBC
01-10-2009, 01:44 AM
I think it's a crappy thing to do if it's just to screw over the blazers, but being that it's the Grizzlies, they can use all the help they can get now.

PTB_Fan_In_LV
01-10-2009, 01:49 AM
The only thing I am still a little confused about is how played pre season without serving his 10 game suspension. So how does that work? Im not worried just something nobody has brought up.

cegielskijastro
01-10-2009, 01:56 AM
Suspensions are served during the regular season

mzgrizz
01-10-2009, 01:57 AM
Any bets on if he stays on after the 10 days are up?

Depends on several things,I guess. How well he performs without all this drama is one. He does have Mid South roots, so he was probably for real when he said he liked Memphis and was happy for the chance to play here. I can't imagine how any former employer can do "restraint of trade".....it's not exactly like they had a non-compete! Or that even those can be enforced all the time. I also imagine, if he's worth it, he'd get at least a league minimum.

PTB_Fan_In_LV
01-10-2009, 01:58 AM
Oh I see cool cool

Pran Raznor
01-10-2009, 01:58 AM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

Duncan = Donkey
01-10-2009, 02:02 AM
haha ballsy, cant wait to see how all this eventually go's down.

KB24PG16
01-10-2009, 02:32 AM
yes play him in two games 18 mil for a guy thats not even on your team lol

xanderyear
01-10-2009, 02:37 AM
Suspensions are served during the regular season

The NBA ruled that six preseason games Miles played in count toward his 10 game mark. He played two in Memphis, which puts him to 8 total now.

Kings Faithful
01-10-2009, 02:41 AM
I think its ridiculous that the Blazers would try to prevent anyone from doing this...yeah it may not be in the best taste to try and screw another franchise...but guess what, life isn't fair and its within the rules of the game. I think the Blazers deserved it now because of that ridiculous threat to anyone who tried. Just shows how ridiculously liberal our society is getting.

Fear_GAS_OLDier
01-10-2009, 02:48 AM
this definitely equals awesome

Fear_GAS_OLDier
01-10-2009, 02:49 AM
well heck i would try and prevent others from signing him...i'd like dude to get an actual shot, after he plays 2 games he probably will be released and never heard from ever again

Hellcrooner
01-10-2009, 04:16 AM
What do you bet suddenly blazers accept the Conley for Sergio and Outlow offer they rejected s while ago....

DerekRE_3
01-10-2009, 04:23 AM
I think its ridiculous that the Blazers would try to prevent anyone from doing this...yeah it may not be in the best taste to try and screw another franchise...but guess what, life isn't fair and its within the rules of the game. I think the Blazers deserved it now because of that ridiculous threat to anyone who tried. Just shows how ridiculously liberal our society is getting.

:confused:

Lakersfan2483
01-10-2009, 04:26 AM
The Grizzlies are calling the Blazers' bluff and they have the backing of the NBA and David Stern, interesting move by them.

IRUAM #21
01-10-2009, 04:45 AM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers lol i just said that cuz everyone was sayin it

LakerzDQ
01-10-2009, 04:48 AM
haha, Chris Wallace is now my favorite GM.

Tblaze
01-10-2009, 06:18 AM
The Grizzlies are calling the Blazers' bluff and they have the backing of the NBA and David Stern, interesting move by them.

Lol people are overreacting.

First off, the threat was ment at people who would just sign Miles to screw the blazers, and it's obvious Memphis cut him to not have to give him a guaranteed contract. So now they could re-sign him again withouth being comitted to him till the end of the season.

However the conley trade proposed earlier this year now is most then definantly not going to happen. And I'm pretty sure Blazers would've been overpaying for him cause he's Oden's best friend.

And last, I didn't approve the way our president handled this situation in any way. The e-mail was out of line. But I do support the fact that if an organization is trying to sign him just to screw us over, they are going to suffer themselves for doing so.

davg31
01-10-2009, 06:40 AM
Nice one

Faneik
01-10-2009, 07:45 AM
It's a dog eat dog world out there!

A new rivalry began.

lakerboy
01-10-2009, 08:34 AM
Wow ballsy. I have my new second favorite team in the NBA. I love Chris Wallace. He gave us Pau and now he is screwing conference rivals. Awesome

I was thinking the same thing. As a Laker fan, I'm starting to love the Grizzlies. They're like our little brother!

innovator
01-10-2009, 08:37 AM
^yeah like marc is to pau

Mr Grim
01-10-2009, 08:58 AM
Hilarious move!

It was only a matter of time before someone signed him to screw the blazers after that "im going to threaten the league with lawyers" email.

Justice is served!

pippsux
01-10-2009, 09:22 AM
Good move by the Grizz, the Blazers have no right dictating to the rest of the league.

JordansBulls
01-10-2009, 09:41 AM
can't believe Memphis of all teams would do this. What do they have to gain from this?

J-Relo
01-10-2009, 09:48 AM
good deal :)

lakerboy
01-10-2009, 10:06 AM
can't believe Memphis of all teams would do this. What do they have to gain from this?

Darius Miles :)

Tblaze
01-10-2009, 10:09 AM
can't believe Memphis of all teams would do this. What do they have to gain from this?

People seem to forget that the only reason they cut Miles in the first place was to avoid him from getting a guaranteed contract for the rest of the year, this way he's on their roster again without having to give him a guaranteed contract. I think they would've re-signed him either way, regardless of the e-mail send by the president, which was a classless act in my opinion.

trout1627
01-10-2009, 10:13 AM
can't believe Memphis of all teams would do this. What do they have to gain from this?

They get Miles and they don't have to pay him 9 mil per year. They will probably sign him for a couple of mil while Portland gets 9 mil charged against its cap. Good business move by the Grizz.

Although it hurts Portland, their payroll next year is only 46 mil even with Miles, and he comes off the cap for that "all-important" 2010 free agency. So its really not that big a deal.

MiamiHeat
01-10-2009, 10:34 AM
lol wow

jimbobjarree
01-10-2009, 10:54 AM
good stuff Memphis

Jacob K.
01-10-2009, 11:14 AM
why doesnt portland sign him to a bunch of 10 days till his contract is up, and never play him?

Jacob K.
01-10-2009, 11:15 AM
oh and Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

phila_gorilla
01-10-2009, 11:37 AM
Won't this move hurt Miles, not Portland. I think if he plays in 2 games this season then he owes the Trailblazers something like 18 million.

_Sn1P3r_
01-10-2009, 11:39 AM
Lmao, wow.

innovator
01-10-2009, 11:58 AM
Won't this move hurt Miles, not Portland. I think if he plays in 2 games this season then he owes the Trailblazers something like 18 million.

no

Faneik
01-10-2009, 12:31 PM
why doesnt portland sign him to a bunch of 10 days till his contract is up, and never play him?

Why would Miles agree to sign with a team he knows they wouldn't playing him?

The man is trying to revitalize his career...

D-Leethal
01-10-2009, 12:37 PM
If he actually can play than screw the Blazers they owe him the money

GregOden#1
01-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Lol people are overreacting.

First off, the threat was ment at people who would just sign Miles to screw the blazers, and it's obvious Memphis cut him to not have to give him a guaranteed contract. So now they could re-sign him again withouth being comitted to him till the end of the season.

Out of all the situations where Portland would sue, this is the one where they have the best chance at winning. If Memphis waives Darius after 3 games (at the end of his 10 day contract) it'l look pretty bad for them. That's one case Portland would probably win.

lakers4sho
01-10-2009, 03:13 PM
^^ who would be an idiot to waive Miles after 3 games??

GregOden#1
01-10-2009, 03:14 PM
No, his 10 day contract ends after the 3 games (last time I looked at the schedule, and if the contract was signed last night).

lakers4sho
01-10-2009, 03:21 PM
hmm sounds interesting

Vidball
01-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Out of all the situations where Portland would sue, this is the one where they have the best chance at winning. If Memphis waives Darius after 3 games (at the end of his 10 day contract) it'l look pretty bad for them. That's one case Portland would probably win.

they are not likely at all to lose a case to POR. They already expressed interest in Miles, he showed some promise on the team, he had a good little stretch in a game against MIN, and now MEM just wants to give him a few more games to see if they want him on their team for the rest of the season.

On the other hand, POR's case against MEM---ummm...they have no true evidence of anything at all, only assumptions/theory's that MEM signed Miles for reasons that aren't acceptable. MEM has the league on its side, and Miles has shown enough promise to be at the end of their bench. Sorry POR, the jig is up!!! Mem=my second favorite team. First Pau then this!!! :clap:

rick66ankiel24
01-10-2009, 04:20 PM
whats the deal with the grizz makin all these moves lately, they traded for francis, signed livingston and now signed miles.. you'd think they were a contender by all those transactions

MilfHunter07
01-10-2009, 04:34 PM
Perfect now they have to trade some of their talent!!!

JJ81
01-10-2009, 04:39 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

BADizzleBoY
01-10-2009, 04:41 PM
im very happy

Yogi
01-10-2009, 04:59 PM
I'm going to laugh so hard if he only plays two games.

Lakers4ItAll
01-10-2009, 05:18 PM
POR has no case F them

FNM BOY
01-10-2009, 05:21 PM
im very happy

Badizzleboy i thought u were a Sixer fan....havent seen u in the forums for a longggggggggggggggg time....its all good though. Keep bandwagoning.:D oh yeah and good show Grizzles who the hell does Portland think they are to threaten people!!??

rhjr06
01-10-2009, 05:32 PM
good im glad they signed him! portland is crazy to think they can impose such threats on teams.....i hope they get stuck with the cap monies!!!

Nighthawk
01-10-2009, 05:46 PM
i hope memphis plays him

screw the Blazers although they have great upside

heyman321
01-10-2009, 06:15 PM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

Kings Faithful
01-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Good.

MGB
01-10-2009, 06:34 PM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

Sox Appeal
01-10-2009, 11:18 PM
why doesnt portland sign him to a bunch of 10 days till his contract is up, and never play him?

There's no way Miles would be accept something like this. He's still trying to rejuvenate his career (I'm sure the 18M he could make from the Blazers, has a lot to do with him trying to rejuvenate his career, but still..), and sitting on the bench in Portland for the next 2 seasons wouldn't be doing him any favors when it comes to making his comeback.

AZCardsFan
01-10-2009, 11:22 PM
Thats good. Blazers have enough talent already.

Bubba17
01-10-2009, 11:33 PM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

DocUSN
01-10-2009, 11:36 PM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney Grizzlies


Oh wait, I always mess these things up.....

07MVPPatBurrell
01-10-2009, 11:45 PM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

blacknell
01-10-2009, 11:57 PM
cold blooded!!!!!!

JordansBulls
01-11-2009, 01:51 AM
Portland will get their revenge soon enough.

lakers4sho
01-11-2009, 01:56 AM
Yess!!!!!!! Screw those whiney blazers

mjt20mik
01-11-2009, 03:02 AM
That's what they get for being so sneaky.

BoltLakerPadre
01-11-2009, 03:40 AM
I was thinking the same thing. As a Laker fan, I'm starting to love the Grizzlies. They're like our little brother!

Just like Marc is Pau's little brother, hahahaha, I love it. That's what you get for threatening the property of 29 other billion-aires.

thedfactor
01-11-2009, 03:54 AM
Its all fair game. The Blazers should not have any say in what happens with Miles. If another team, Memphis, chooses to sign him its all good. Portland just happens to owe him that money, which they agreed to pay when the initial contract was made. Deal.

PRETTY BIRD!
01-11-2009, 03:55 AM
is jerry west still in memphis?

Big Quett
01-11-2009, 04:44 AM
They get Miles and they don't have to pay him 9 mil per year. They will probably sign him for a couple of mil while Portland gets 9 mil charged against its cap. Good business move by the Grizz.

Although it hurts Portland, their payroll next year is only 46 mil even with Miles, and he comes off the cap for that "all-important" 2010 free agency. So its really not that big a deal.

Portland will over have cap room this summer. That is it. If Portland doesnt resign Roy and Aldridge this summer. They will be restricted in '10. And the way teams are maneuvering for 2010 Portland would be stupid not to extend them quickly.

IndyRealist
01-11-2009, 08:31 AM
why doesnt portland sign him to a bunch of 10 days till his contract is up, and never play him?

Because they claim his injury injured his career. If they sign him to a contract, they're saying he can play.

Blazin_101
01-11-2009, 01:53 PM
I think the league needs to take another look at how this type of situation is handled. If their own indepenadntly appointed doc said it was a carrer ending injury I dont think any team should have to take a hit on their cap.

With all that said I think all the girls in here that keep getting excited because it screws the blazers cap should actualy take a look at the blazers situation. next year they will be way under the cap thanks to people like Francis, LaFrenz, Diago, Frye contracts fall off. and the year after that Miles' little 9 mil contract will expire. we are going to have great opertunitys in the FA.

Now I will say I think the e-mail was not the smartest thing to do but oh well. maybe their were other factors that havnt been released in the media that triggered that decission. I can say I dont expect Portland to do any deals with the grizz for quite a while because of this and maybe they will make it a point to specificly go after grizz FA's in the future even if it shoves them over the cap. it's not like their owner doesnt have boat loads of cash to spend.

jimbobjarree
01-11-2009, 02:09 PM
screw the Blazers, who the **** do they think they are all of a sudden, disgusting

GregOden#1
01-11-2009, 02:44 PM
There's nothing wrong with what the Blazers did. 90% of you didn't even read the article, and other 10% still dont know what's going on. If there is any evidence Memphis is only signing Miles to screw over the Blazers financial situation (and that evidence is building) then the Blazers will sue.

I've yet to hear that Miles is being cleared by doctors to play, every doctor the Blazers sent Miles to (the league appointed one, the NBAPA one and their own) said that Miles has suffered a career ending injury. That doesn't mean he cant play anymore, it means he shoudn't be play anymore because he's endangering his knee every time he goes out there. That's why the Blazers can still appeal for him to be removed from the cap number, which they'll do in a few months before FA. If Miles knee has miraclously healed then the Blazers must keep his contracts on the books.

The issue was never about Miles, which is why the NBAPA has no case with the grievance against the Blazers. The issue was about teams wanting to push the Blazers over the luxury tax (costing them 20 million dollars) so they could collect the roughly 300 thousand from the Blazers going over. People here are confused about what a franchise is, it's not a business at all, and there are laws against franchises trying to screw eachother over for financial gain, and that's why the Blazers can sue any team that does this.

LA 17
01-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Haha I love Michael Heisley. That guy won't take **** from anybody. I wouldn't be suprised if he re-signed Darius Miles just so he could say, "**** you, Portland!"

As for Portland, they got what they deserved. Don't get me wrong, I love the Blazers organization. But they were trying to screw Darius Miles out of a job and that's 1) illegal and 2) selfish. Karma's a *****.

IndyRealist
01-11-2009, 03:10 PM
There's nothing wrong with what the Blazers did. 90% of you didn't even read the article, and other 10% still dont know what's going on. If there is any evidence Memphis is only signing Miles to screw over the Blazers financial situation (and that evidence is building) then the Blazers will sue.

I've yet to hear that Miles is being cleared by doctors to play, every doctor the Blazers sent Miles to (the league appointed one, the NBAPA one and their own) said that Miles has suffered a career ending injury. That doesn't mean he cant play anymore, it means he shoudn't be play anymore because he's endangering his knee every time he goes out there. That's why the Blazers can still appeal for him to be removed from the cap number, which they'll do in a few months before FA. If Miles knee has miraclously healed then the Blazers must keep his contracts on the books.

The issue was never about Miles, which is why the NBAPA has no case with the grievance against the Blazers. The issue was about teams wanting to push the Blazers over the luxury tax (costing them 20 million dollars) so they could collect the roughly 300 thousand from the Blazers going over. People here are confused about what a franchise is, it's not a business at all, and there are laws against franchises trying to screw eachother over for financial gain, and that's why the Blazers can sue any team that does this.

If Darius Miles suits up and steps onto the court, some doctor somewhere cleared him to play, even if it was the team doctor. Otherwise the league's insurance lender wouldn't cover him. The fact that the Blazers' doctor and the one appointed by the NBA ruled that he had a career ending injury doesn't negate that.

Like has been said previously, the Grizzlies had him on their roster. They obviously cut him and then resigned him so they wouldn't have to garuantee his contract. And no one can argue that Memphis doesn't need the help. I even suggested in several places that the Pacers pick Miles up if they could clear space.

I think the bottom line of all of this, is that if the Blazers were going to declare Darius Miles' career over, they probably should have talked it over with him first. He's free to find work if he wants to, and any team is free to hire him. It's like McDonalds firing you for imcompetence and then threatening to sue Burger King for hiring you.

xanderyear
01-11-2009, 03:36 PM
I just don't agree with the way the leagues doctor situation was being handled. If a league doctor says he suffered a career ending injury, then how should it be Portland's fault? That's the one thing I don't agree with in this whole situation.

GregOden#1
01-11-2009, 03:45 PM
If Darius Miles suits up and steps onto the court, some doctor somewhere cleared him to play, even if it was the team doctor. Otherwise the league's insurance lender wouldn't cover him. The fact that the Blazers' doctor and the one appointed by the NBA ruled that he had a career ending injury doesn't negate that.

Teams can waiver physicals for 10 day contracts.


I think the bottom line of all of this, is that if the Blazers were going to declare Darius Miles' career over, they probably should have talked it over with him first. He's free to find work if he wants to, and any team is free to hire him. It's like McDonalds firing you for imcompetence and then threatening to sue Burger King for hiring you.

Darius agreed to medically retire. And that isn't the situation at all. It's like a McDonalds threatening to sue another McDonalds because that McDonalds is about to do something with the intent to adversly affect the financial status of another franchise for personal gain. That's illegal.

IndyRealist
01-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Teams can waiver physicals for 10 day contracts.



Darius agreed to medically retire. And that isn't the situation at all. It's like a McDonalds threatening to sue another McDonalds because that McDonalds is about to do something with the intent to adversly affect the financial status of another franchise for personal gain. That's illegal.

K i get your point. But another team can and has signed Miles. If the Grizzlies had done something against the NBA's bylaws, the league would have stepped in. If it is illegal to adversely affect another team's financial status, which I don't think it is, then it would be illegal for Portland to sue another team as well. The best the could hope for would be to petition the NBA to do something about it.

But they are different companies. The Pacers, for instance, are owned by mall mogels the Simon brothers, under the Pacers Sports and Entertainment company. The Kings are owned by the Maloof Brothers. If the Grizzlies are doing something against NBA bylaws, that's one thing, but they're not doing anything illegal, even if it is detrimental to the Blazers.

McDonalds A (Trailblazers) said that the employee couldn't do the job, and got insurance money for it. McDonalds B (Grizzlies) says that the employee CAN do the job, and hires him. Now the insurance money wants their money back. That's the fault of McDonalds A.

mzgrizz
01-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Portland will get their revenge soon enough.

For what? For playing a guy who wants to AND IS ABLE to play;who'll be near family in Mississippi; for not giving a guaranteed contract but a 10 day when we are short with Darko out? They will still have cap room inspite of it all when they are done with LaFraenz,too.
Damn, the little brothas in Memphis are jockeying to win. Get over it.

GregOden#1
01-11-2009, 05:46 PM
K i get your point. But another team can and has signed Miles. If the Grizzlies had done something against the NBA's bylaws, the league would have stepped in. If it is illegal to adversely affect another team's financial status, which I don't think it is, then it would be illegal for Portland to sue another team as well. The best the could hope for would be to petition the NBA to do something about it.

It is illegal, that's why they sent out the email. It wasn't an NBA issue, it was a civil law issue. That's why the threat of litigation, if Portland sues Memphis there's nothing the NBA can do to stop them.


But they are different companies. The Pacers, for instance, are owned by mall mogels the Simon brothers, under the Pacers Sports and Entertainment company. The Kings are owned by the Maloof Brothers. If the Grizzlies are doing something against NBA bylaws, that's one thing, but they're not doing anything illegal, even if it is detrimental to the Blazers.
Those companies are only the part ownership, the NBA owns all the NBA teams. Otherwise a financially struggling team could join another league. They're called franchises for the same reason McDonalds Restaurent's are and there are very specific laws with how to deal franchises. The big one is franchises cant screw eachother over for the purpose of financial gain. The NBA ownership should be working together to maximize profit, like how they voted 28-2 to leave Seattle (PA and Cuban were the only 2 to vote against it) so they could make more money in OKC (sorta, I doubt they make more money in OKC).


McDonalds A (Trailblazers) said that the employee couldn't do the job, and got insurance money for it. McDonalds B (Grizzlies) says that the employee CAN do the job, and hires him. Now the insurance money wants their money back. That's the fault of McDonalds A.

McDonalds A is supported by psychologists who ruled that the employee in question is mentally unfit to work at McDonalds. McDonalds B will waive any legislation and hire him anyway so that McDonalds A has to pay insurance which for whatever reason helps out McDonalds B financially. If there's any evidence that McDonalds B did do this then they've broken the franchise law and are at fault.

chicagowhitesox
01-11-2009, 06:05 PM
l ol

i agree

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-11-2009, 06:10 PM
If I was the Grizzlies lawyers, I would just point to the fact that if a guy like Smush Parker can be signed by several different teams, there is no reason that we should not give a player like Darius Miles a shot. We need NBA talent and he wants to play for us. We do not care what the Blazers cap space is . It benefits us in no way.

IndyRealist
01-11-2009, 06:39 PM
If teams are technically the same company, they can't sue eachother. In effect, Coke would be sueing Coke Zero. If they're not the same company, then the Blazers do not have standing.

Every franchise structure I've ever been affiliated with licenses the name and product from the parent company. Each franchise is an independent company that contractually submits to the parent company. The company can dictate guidelines and whatnot, but the net affect is that the only thing they can do is pull the franchise's name (which I've seen happen). In this instance, they allow themselves to submit to NBA ruling and fines, or the NBA will kick them out of the league. And since it's more profitable for them to be in the NBA as opposed to say, the USBL or the CBL, so they follow NBA guidelines. I don't think legally they are the same company, but I don't know of any of the laws to which you are referring, and cannot find any laws concerning franchisee's sueing other franchisees for undermining their profitability. Links? I know in particular of a Blockbuster in Austin, TX directly across the street from another Blockbuster.

GregOden#1
01-11-2009, 06:50 PM
I know in particular of a Blockbuster in Austin, TX directly across the street from another Blockbuster.

They have specific zoning laws that the company puts forth. That's the only explanation I can think of. I know a mall with a McDonald's on the first floor and out in the parking lot, and they serve different foods.

mzgrizz
01-11-2009, 07:54 PM
Perhaps in the good ol' USA it's a wee bit different,eh? Like Canadian bacon and.......bacon? :)

GregOden#1
01-11-2009, 08:45 PM
I never knew about franchise laws until people (from the US) started discussing it when they were talking about the Blazers possible lawsuit.

Lone Maverick
01-11-2009, 09:33 PM
Good for Miles and the Grizz. Blazers potential lawsuit would have little to no merit imo, they should blame themselves anyway, no one made them give Miles 18 mil. =/

S.J.Basketball
01-11-2009, 09:59 PM
The blazers attempt @ blackballing him haved FAILED. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!1

luckynumber_752
01-11-2009, 10:28 PM
This is horrible. I'm a Blazer fan. I'm so depressed. Now that we owe Miles $18 million out of Paul Allen's fat pockets, I don't think I have any positive future to look foward to. Lol.

DenButsu
01-11-2009, 10:51 PM
Out of all the situations where Portland would sue, this is the one where they have the best chance at winning. If Memphis waives Darius after 3 games (at the end of his 10 day contract) it'l look pretty bad for them. That's one case Portland would probably win.

Wishful thinking at best. Teams re-sign the same 10-day contract players within the same season all the time. Denver did it with Bobby Jones last season and nearly did it with Juwon Howard this season. It's a very common practice, and the Grizz can present truckloads of evidence that there is ample precedent for such a move. Paul Allen already lost this one. The e-mail threat was intended to deter all the other NBA teams from signing Miles, and it didn't work. Could he throw buckets of cash at a lawsuit that's doomed to failure? Sure, but I suspect he's a better business man than to waste his money like that.


Portland will get their revenge soon enough.

How? Do you mean by the lawsuit, by winning against them, or something else?

Tony_Starks
01-11-2009, 11:35 PM
The email backfired. It's going to cause a team to do just what they were worried about, signing Miles out of spite. Any lawsuit by Portland would be foolish because how can you absolutely prove Memphis signed him "maliciously." All they have to say is they were trying to make their team better, after all this IS Memphis.

JordansBulls
01-11-2009, 11:46 PM
How? Do you mean by the lawsuit, by winning against them, or something else?

Being the team of the future and making the playoffs yearly.

DenButsu
01-11-2009, 11:57 PM
Being the team of the future and making the playoffs yearly.

Cool.

Hope you're having fun...

S.J.Basketball
01-12-2009, 06:50 AM
Denbutsu is right though. Teams sign players to multiple 10 day contracts pretty often. C.J. Watson got those in Golden State last year and I'm pretty sure Mbenga got those from the Lakers before they initially signed him last year as well. What the Grizzlies are doing is common. Blazers are just crying about it. They shouldn't have written any email. Makes them look really suspect like they really ARE TRYING to black ball Miles.

S.J.Basketball
01-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Being the team of the future and making the playoffs yearly.

Yea we'll see.

GregOden#1
01-12-2009, 09:37 AM
I dont know why certain posters believe Memphis signed Miles in good faith while Portland sent out the letter maliciously to keep Miles from getting signed. It's a double standard, one that doesn't make sense. Portland is the classiest organization in the league and they didn't just earn that label overnight while Memphis is the team that shipped Gasol to LA.

Suntan Superman
01-12-2009, 10:03 AM
The only thing I find suspicious is the fact that every doctor said he had a "career-ending injury" and now he's back, if he's truly endangering himself to play a game, then he's just flat-out stupid, and deserves whatever happens to his knee. If it's healed, then I'd probably talk to the doctors that said it was career-ending. Also, as much as the Blazers could have a case, I doubt they'd win it. I also love all the Trail Blazer hating in here, it warms my heart to see the Jail Blazers legacy still living on.

Gibby23
01-12-2009, 12:00 PM
Teams can waiver physicals for 10 day contracts.



Darius agreed to medically retire. And that isn't the situation at all. It's like a McDonalds threatening to sue another McDonalds because that McDonalds is about to do something with the intent to adversly affect the financial status of another franchise for personal gain. That's illegal.

If there is no signed document then they don't have a case. It's all pointless because you keep saying Portland has a case and will win, but at the end of this Portland will not do anything. They won't take it to court and will end up taking the cap hit.

When this happens, what will you have to say?

IndyRealist
01-12-2009, 12:24 PM
What Portland is saying is not that they will sue and win, but that they will sue and tie up the Grizzlies in court for the next three years, making them spend millions of dollars on lawyers.

I don't know if there are, in fact, Franchise Laws that prohibit competition between franchises like GregOden#1 says, he hasn't provided any links. But there ARE laws about filing frivilous lawsuits and tying up the legal system to advance a corporate agenda when you have no intention of winning the case. This'll never end up in court. Worse case scenario, it'll end up with an NBA appointed arbiter. The NBA can force teams into arbitration as part of their franchise agreement.

DenButsu
01-12-2009, 12:45 PM
I dont know why certain posters believe Memphis signed Miles in good faith while Portland sent out the letter maliciously to keep Miles from getting signed. It's a double standard, one that doesn't make sense. Portland is the classiest organization in the league and they didn't just earn that label overnight while Memphis is the team that shipped Gasol to LA.

It's not that people think Memphis really signed him in good faith. It's that even if they didn't, people are happy about it after Portland sent out that douchebag e-mail. A lot of people were sympathetic to the Blazers before that threat was put out there - after that, everyone is happy to see them get screwed for being so dickish. (And that includes me).

Gibby23
01-12-2009, 12:49 PM
I don't think the Grizz signed him to screw the Blazers. They waived him because they didn't want his contract to be guaranteed because he had the 10 game suspension and they didn't really get a good look at him and now they brought him in on a 10 day contract to get a better look. Smart move.

Hellcrooner
01-12-2009, 05:36 PM
If miles can play memphis should sue portlands doctors and the doctors that were "consulted " by portland and ask for them to be retired their medicine graduates.

HAMMERHEAD44
01-12-2009, 05:52 PM
good for them!!

I Am Awesome-O
01-12-2009, 06:22 PM
I dont know why certain posters believe Memphis signed Miles in good faith while Portland sent out the letter maliciously to keep Miles from getting signed. It's a double standard, one that doesn't make sense. Portland is the classiest organization in the league and they didn't just earn that label overnight while Memphis is the team that shipped Gasol to LA.

You have got to be kidding me. Every part of that statement is stupid. Portland has been blackballing Miles ever since they waived him. They have handled the situation horribly. I am glad they are getting screwed, because they have been *******s about the whole situation from the start, and no matter what you try to say about the organization will change anyone's opinion.

GregOden#1
01-12-2009, 08:11 PM
It's not that people think Memphis really signed him in good faith. It's that even if they didn't, people are happy about it after Portland sent out that douchebag e-mail. A lot of people were sympathetic to the Blazers before that threat was put out there - after that, everyone is happy to see them get screwed for being so dickish. (And that includes me).

It wasn't a douchebag e-mail if you can read properly. It's a standard legal letter. They did nothing wrong by sending out that e-mail.

Sportfan
01-12-2009, 08:13 PM
:laugh: lol this is so ****** funny!

IndyRealist
01-12-2009, 08:34 PM
It wasn't a douchebag e-mail if you can read properly. It's a standard legal letter. They did nothing wrong by sending out that e-mail.

It is actually a very thinly veiled threat. Darius Miles has a very good case should he decide to sue the Blazers. I've been in a hiring position for the past five years at my company, and one thing you never, ever do is tell another company they shouldn't hire your former employee. Ever. It is the quickest way to get your company dragged into court. Regardless of the situation between Portland and Memphis, the Blazers infringed on Darius Miles' rights.

Still waiting on a link or something about the Franchise Laws you were talking about, GregOden#1, btw. Because I can't find anything about a franchise being able to sue another franchise for determentally affecting their business and benefiting from it. There isn't any case precedent listed in Westlaw, for instance.

DenButsu
01-12-2009, 08:34 PM
It wasn't a douchebag e-mail if you can read properly. It's a standard legal letter. They did nothing wrong by sending out that e-mail.

Yeah, using legal threats to attempt to intimidate the other NBA teams out of signing Miles and deprive him of the ability to work in the process. Nothing wrong with that... :rolleyes:

Sorry, GO#1, but yes, it's absolutely 100% douchbaggery.

GregOden#1
01-12-2009, 09:01 PM
Yeah, using legal threats to attempt to intimidate the other NBA teams out of signing Miles and deprive him of the ability to work in the process. Nothing wrong with that... :rolleyes:

Sorry, GO#1, but yes, it's absolutely 100% douchbaggery.

No, it's not. It wasn't some veiled attempt as IndyRealist said, it merely said "dont sign Miles with the intent of maliciously harming our financial status or we'll sue you" not "dont sign Miles".


Still waiting on a link or something about the Franchise Laws you were talking about, GregOden#1, btw. Because I can't find anything about a franchise being able to sue another franchise for determentally affecting their business and benefiting from it. There isn't any case precedent listed in Westlaw, for instance.

I was reading it from several posters on another forum, it's in a pretty big thread (30+ pages) but it's there. The credibility of it is suspect but it's not like the people are making this up. If it were there really would be no case for the Blazers to sue, which would lead me to believe the Blazers planned the letter in like half an hour (which they probably didn't, it was a calculated decision that they had looked at as an option weeks in advance).

S.J.Basketball
01-12-2009, 09:15 PM
No, it's not. It wasn't some veiled attempt as IndyRealist said, it merely said "dont sign Miles with the intent of maliciously harming our financial status or we'll sue you" not "dont sign Miles".

The Bold is what they meant.

How would they know what any teams intent is? It's a threat put out there to scare off teams from signing Miles.

IndyRealist
01-12-2009, 09:47 PM
Sorry GO#1, I don't take anything anyone says online as the truth without links. I personally can't find any sort of franchise law saying the Grizzlies can't do something to screw over the Blazers and benefit from it.

Without any evidence to back up what you're saying, there really is no arguement here. The whole basis of your views is that the Blazers have standing to sue, so the letter was simply informing people that they have the right to. There's no evidence that the Blazers have any right to sue, and therefore the intent of the letter was to intimidate other teams. Which is what every analyst on TV has said. That means Darius Miles has a legitimate lawsuit, and the Blazers are screwed. I'm afraid you're entire arguement hinges on, "I read online that some guy says that...."

GregOden#1
01-12-2009, 10:37 PM
http://www.franchiselaw.ca/caseofthemonth_jun_2006.asp that's Canada and it's franchisee vs. franchisor, but the premise is the same. Opening up another restaurant would adversely affect the financial standing of the original restaurant. There are alot of cases like this.

And to be honest, I'd take the word of a random guy on the internet over a tv analyst anyday.

lakersrock
01-12-2009, 10:39 PM
"screwed"

Didn't Portland have to cut him to be in this predicament?

DitchDat
01-12-2009, 10:42 PM
lol I been getting pretty tired of the whole cap thing

Darius can still play, Portland messed up. They made a mistake, now they pay for it.

Hellcrooner
01-12-2009, 10:53 PM
Since they threatened the whole league it would be fun that the 29 franchises came to a agreemnet to consecutively sign him 10 days contract each. Go rich boy!!! sue the whole league and see your boys move to Seattle to be the sonics.!!!!

IndyRealist
01-12-2009, 11:21 PM
http://www.franchiselaw.ca/caseofthemonth_jun_2006.asp that's Canada and it's franchisee vs. franchisor, but the premise is the same. Opening up another restaurant would adversely affect the financial standing of the original restaurant. There are alot of cases like this.

And to be honest, I'd take the word of a random guy on the internet over a tv analyst anyday.

Franchisee vs Franchisor is different. A franchise has no obligation to another franchise to maintain it's profitability. The premise isn't the same at all. A franchisor has a limited obligation to the franchisee to say, "If you do business with me, you'll make money" Even then, it's US courts at least tend to rule in favor of the franchisor. Free market and all.

GregOden#1
01-12-2009, 11:37 PM
maintain

Maintain isn't the same thing as "screw them over for profit".

IndyRealist
01-12-2009, 11:48 PM
Maintain isn't the same thing as "screw them over for profit".

Ok, a franchise has no obligation to another franchise to not "screw them over for profit" then. I can't find a single case anywhere that says otherwise. It sounds like you're more upset with the detremental effects of the situation rather than the legality. Which I can understand, if it were the Pacers I'd be P.O.'d too. But I can't find anything that says it's illegal.

GregOden#1
01-13-2009, 12:06 AM
I cant imagine another situation where a franchise could potentially harm another franchise purposely for profit, other than moving right next door (which as I've shown there are many cases where this happens). It likely doesn't arise often, but that doesn't mean it isn't there and again this is something that was brought up several times, you're welcome to read what I read so if you PM me I can send you the link.

IndyRealist
01-13-2009, 12:10 AM
Yup, very unusual case. In fact, it's so unlikely I can't imagine there's a law about it. Most of the time a situation has to arise before they make a law about it.

GregOden#1
01-13-2009, 12:12 AM
Well I'm not going to my university library to look up franchise laws for 3 hours. I'd rather just believe the Blazers knew what they were doing, and didn't threaten teams with legislation on a law that doesn't exist. I'd think Larry Miller and the rest of PA's lawyers know the law pretty well.

mzgrizz
01-13-2009, 12:19 AM
I dont know why certain posters believe Memphis signed Miles in good faith while Portland sent out the letter maliciously to keep Miles from getting signed. It's a double standard, one that doesn't make sense. Portland is the classiest organization in the league and they didn't just earn that label overnight while Memphis is the team that shipped Gasol to LA.

I can't see how the Grizz dumb ***** move to trade Pau = classlessness. More like stupidity to me on that point(still sore,obviously!)
I think Portland needs to STFU and play the kind of ball they played against the Bulls tonight. Ya'll have a wonderful young team with lots of resources on the court and lots off($$$$$$$$$$mr.allen$$$$$$$$$$$)
I've said it before....we needed a player(= Darko still out with a broken hand) ;Miles has FAMILY nearby(like NOT in Oregon) and the young guys LIKE to play in front of family; he showed us he can still play(blocks and boards in a few minutes) and he likes MEMPHIS..........yes,Lord,some people DO like Memphis!!!

IndyRealist
01-13-2009, 01:31 AM
Well I'm not going to my university library to look up franchise laws for 3 hours. I'd rather just believe the Blazers knew what they were doing, and didn't threaten teams with legislation on a law that doesn't exist. I'd think Larry Miller and the rest of PA's lawyers know the law pretty well.

But the Grizzlies' lawyers don't? I remember you saying something about double standards before...Regardless, I think we've said all there is to say on the topic.

/thread

GregOden#1
01-13-2009, 01:39 AM
But the Grizzlies' lawyers don't?

Huh...you might as well explain that one before we end it...

IndyRealist
01-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Heh sorry went to bed, GO#1. What I was saying was that you are assuming the Blazers' lawyers know the law and wouldn't send out that letter without legal backing. But that assumes that the Grizzlies' lawyers didn't know what they're doing when they OK'd the team to re-sign Miles. If there was the slightest chance that the Grizzlies could actually lose a court case their lawyers would have nixed the deal. Whatever they're going to get from the luxury tax refund, they're going to spend more than that on Miles' salary regardless. Just screwing over another team is not worth losing millions in a lawsuit.

You assume that the Blazers are being forthright and sincere, that they have just cause to sue, and so the email they sent was just to inform people that they have the right to sue. Unfortunately there's no reason to believe the Blazers are being sincere, other than that you like the organization. If they don't have legal standing, which seems to be the case, then they sent the letter out as a form of intimidation.

They won't win the court case, but they sure as heck will drag you into court and keep you there for the next three years, making you spend millions on lawyer fees and dragging your team through the mud. That's how the email is generally viewed.

Vidball
01-13-2009, 03:57 PM
This just came out today:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlIP8SmItN.R.qtwTNH5DZO8vLYF?slug=aw-milesupdate011209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Blazers wanted to claim Miles and sit him on the bench so they could protect the $23+M he will cost them in salary and luxury tax. The Blazers organization is looking worse and worse with each passing day.

Duncan = Donkey
01-13-2009, 08:49 PM
hope he palys tonight against the cavs

mzgrizz
01-13-2009, 11:03 PM
He is playing tonight. He was put in the 3rd quarter and has 8 points !

DenButsu
01-13-2009, 11:11 PM
He is playing tonight. He was put in the 3rd quarter and has 8 points !

Bye-bye any grounds for a lawsuit whatsoever. Not as if there were any to begin with.

mzgrizz
01-13-2009, 11:11 PM
This just came out today:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlIP8SmItN.R.qtwTNH5DZO8vLYF?slug=aw-milesupdate011209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Blazers wanted to claim Miles and sit him on the bench so they could protect the $23+M he will cost them in salary and luxury tax. The Blazers organization is looking worse and worse with each passing day.

Just read this link......how do the Blazer fans defend this?
BTW it's 7 minutes to go in the 4th and Miles has 11 points.

DenButsu
01-13-2009, 11:15 PM
This just came out today:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlIP8SmItN.R.qtwTNH5DZO8vLYF?slug=aw-milesupdate011209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Blazers wanted to claim Miles and sit him on the bench so they could protect the $23+M he will cost them in salary and luxury tax. The Blazers organization is looking worse and worse with each passing day.

People defending the Blazers through all this keep saying that Portland's not that worried about it anyways since Raef's contract will expire etc., etc. But for a team that's not worried about it, they sure have pursued a course of action that looks a whole lot to me like pure desperation.

mzgrizz
01-13-2009, 11:25 PM
Hands down,agree. Much ado about nothing??? Also as Shakespeare said,in a paraphrase, we should kill all lawyers!!

mzgrizz
01-14-2009, 12:09 AM
He finished with 13 points in 2 quarters of play.....looked good......slightly winded,but basically in great shape....active on both ends of the floor. I tell you, we can keep him as far as I'm concerned.......for the right price ! :)

IndyRealist
01-14-2009, 12:30 AM
I was really hoping the Pacers would find a way of picking him up...

LA_Raiders
01-14-2009, 01:30 AM
sweet

Sixerlover
01-14-2009, 04:41 AM
One game to go. But the way Miles played yesterday, he actually looks like someone who is trying to make a team, not just trying to collect on the money from the Blazers.

Hellcrooner
01-14-2009, 05:49 AM
mmm13 points in 15 minutes, yeah definetly looks like a Career iNjuried finishing player....

Who was the external doctor The blazers used? Dr Doom? Dr Caligari? Dr Fate? Dr Strange?......

mmm maybe im mistaking it and Dr House works his miracles for teh grizz....

HOZ THE KNICK
01-14-2009, 08:21 AM
miles will have no problem finding a job hustling like that.

GregOden#1
01-14-2009, 09:37 AM
One game to go. But the way Miles played yesterday, he actually looks like someone who is trying to make a team, not just trying to collect on the money from the Blazers.

He'd be getting the money regardless of what happens. He agreed to medically retire (netting him more money than just being bought out). There was never any question wether he's trying to play or not, it's wether he should (not can he) be playing.

PRETTY BIRD!
01-14-2009, 08:50 PM
obviously portland handled that situation wrong, and its their fault for giving an overrated clown like Miles a i contract like they did.

but Miles entire career represents everything wrong with the nba since Jordan retired. if you ever read the interview with the oregonian he did 2 or 3 years ago then you know what im talking about, complaining that he was the "franchise player" and didnt get a bobblehead, talking about always showing up to practice hungover and implying the whole league does that. clearly a guy more concerned with clubbing and bling bling and ho's than with being an nba player. a player like Miles will always help his team LOSE, which is why memphis shouldnt have signed him. why expose your young players to a career unprofessional loser like Miles who is destined to turn some of memphis promising young players into unlikeable losers with poor attitudes? :smoking:

NYMetros
01-14-2009, 08:54 PM
obviously portland handled that situation wrong, and its their fault for giving an overrated clown like Miles a i contract like they did.

but Miles entire career represents everything wrong with the nba since Jordan retired. if you ever read the interview with the oregonian he did 2 or 3 years ago then you know what im talking about, complaining that he was the "franchise player" and didnt get a bobblehead, talking about always showing up to practice hungover and implying the whole league does that. clearly a guy more concerned with clubbing and bling bling and ho's than with being an nba player. a player like Miles will always help his team LOSE, which is why memphis shouldnt have signed him. why expose your young players to a career unprofessional loser like Miles who is destined to turn some of memphis promising young players into unlikeable losers with poor attitudes? :smoking:

They only signed him to a 10-day contract. If he is going to change those young guys in Memphis into unlikeable losers in a mere 10 days, then they probably were destined to head down that path anyway.

PRETTY BIRD!
01-14-2009, 08:57 PM
Heh sorry went to bed, GO#1. What I was saying was that you are assuming the Blazers' lawyers know the law and wouldn't send out that letter without legal backing. But that assumes that the Grizzlies' lawyers didn't know what they're doing when they OK'd the team to re-sign Miles. If there was the slightest chance that the Grizzlies could actually lose a court case their lawyers would have nixed the deal. Whatever they're going to get from the luxury tax refund, they're going to spend more than that on Miles' salary regardless. Just screwing over another team is not worth losing millions in a lawsuit.

You assume that the Blazers are being forthright and sincere, that they have just cause to sue, and so the email they sent was just to inform people that they have the right to sue. Unfortunately there's no reason to believe the Blazers are being sincere, other than that you like the organization. If they don't have legal standing, which seems to be the case, then they sent the letter out as a form of intimidation.

They won't win the court case, but they sure as heck will drag you into court and keep you there for the next three years, making you spend millions on lawyer fees and dragging your team through the mud. That's how the email is generally viewed.

The media coverage of the whole thing has been deplorably inaccurate. I don't think that the email was even a threat per se. It was simply informing teams that if they signed Miles (and here's the important part!) FOR THE PURPOSE OF HURTING THE BLAZERS FINANCIALLY, AND NOT FOR HIS VALUE AS A PLAYER, then the Blazers would pursue all avenues, including litigation, to protect their interests.

PRETTY BIRD!
01-14-2009, 09:05 PM
People defending the Blazers through all this keep saying that Portland's not that worried about it anyways since Raef's contract will expire etc., etc. But for a team that's not worried about it, they sure have pursued a course of action that looks a whole lot to me like pure desperation.

Don't you remember Tanya Harding?? That isn't how people from Portland handle things like this. They will just wait for him to walk out of the gym and then give him a few smacks on the leg with a metal pipe. Then all the cameras will catch Miles on the ground crying like a girl.:smoking:

PRETTY BIRD!
01-14-2009, 09:18 PM
They only signed him to a 10-day contract. If he is going to change those young guys in Memphis into unlikeable losers in a mere 10 days, then they probably were destined to head down that path anyway.

If they we're destined or not....bringing in Miles can't help any cost!:smoking:

blacknell
01-14-2009, 09:27 PM
has he played in any games yet

mzgrizz
01-15-2009, 01:16 AM
has he played in any games yet

Played last night and got 13 points in the second half. Our next game is Friday the 16th vs Utah. That will be his 10th game if he plays.

DenButsu
01-15-2009, 01:21 AM
Played last night and got 13 points in the second half.

Just to emphasize how well he did (and mzgrizz I'm sure you already know this), it wasn't just 13 points in the 2nd half, it was 13 points on 4-6 shooting, 5-7 from the line in 14 minutes. That's some downright explosive production off the end of the bench.

blacknell
01-15-2009, 01:30 AM
they better resign him if he is helping out the team F the blazers

Hellcrooner
01-15-2009, 03:54 AM
Now someone should offer a 10 day contract to Jamaal Mashburn to drive the sixers wild :p