View Full Version : Something New To Talk About

01-09-2009, 05:16 PM
I was talking with a friend and we were debating the directions the O's are currently heading toward. I tend to be more of a optimistic person, where as my friend has simply lost faith in the franchise.

I brought up to him the supposed Reds deal that was presented to the O's last year for Erik Berdard. If I remember correctly (and I could be wrong) the Orioles were dead-set on Jay Bruce and by all rights. This is the guy that they should have been asking for in return for Berdard. In retrospect, a Jay Bruce for Berdard deal ((straight up)) would look pretty decent right now in my opnion with the year Berdard had last year and the potential that Bruce shows. I mean, could you imagine a 2, 3, 4 of Markakis, Weiters and Bruce? Jay Bruce was never going to happen though, Cincy was smart. However, the deal that I remember was that the Reds countered with Votto, Cueto, Bailey and Encarnacion for Berdard...

I know the haul that the O's got from Seattle was great. I love Adam Jones. I think the kids got all the tools in the world. He's got one of the best arms in all of baseball...a legit 5-tool player. Sherrill was fantastic last year (not so much at the end of the year but he was a great addition). He was especially good and important since Ray was out all year. Everyone knows that Tillman is a great prospect.

I'm content with the deal we received from Seattle but I cannot help but wonder if the O's would be better off having accepted the deal from Cincinatti. I'd like to encourage the debate as to whether you believe they would be BETTER or NOT BETTER.

Clearly, this is my own opinion but I feel like the O's might have been better accepting the deal from the Reds. Again, I'm not knocking Jones and Sherrill..or Tillman for that matter. I simply believe that the franchise might be better off having made that deal.

Joey Votto 25 years old - .297 BA, 24 HR's, 84 RBI's, 69 RUNS, .368 OBP, .506 Slugging in 151 games last year

This guy would be the 1B of the future, today. As (pretty much) a rookie last year he put up some pretty dang good numbers. Imagine this guy hitting in Camden Yards. Eutaw Street would be lit up...now imagine putting Markakis and Weiters in front of him for the next couple years. The next few years would look very bright in Bmore.

Edwin Encarnacion 25 years old - .251 BA, 26 HR's, 68 RBI's, 75 RUNS, .340 OBP, .466 Slugging in 146 games

I can make the same point for Encarnacion that I did for Votto. He's young, under contract for a while. He's got room to grow into that raw power too. He might not be a .300 BA guy but neither was Cal Ripken. This guy would come in and could either be put in left, used as a DH or subplant Mora. I think Mora is better defensively, but this guy would hit over 30 bombs at Oriole Park.

Johnny Cueto 22 years old - 9 - 14 Record 158 K's 174 Innings 4.81 ERA in 31 Starts as a rookie

This guy would be a solid # 3 in the rotation. He's got pretty good stuff and he's only 22 years old. That's huge. He pitched a good amount of innings last year and it's to be expected that he'd have his ups and downs.

Homer Bailey 22 years old - 0 - 6 Record 18 K's 36.1 Innings 7.93 ERA in 6 Starts last year.

Regardless of where he was last year at the end of the year he was said to be one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball during his career in the minors. He'd atleast get a good look for a rotation spot on this team in the spring. Even if the Reds had done enough to screw him up forever and I don't believe it would be a disappointment if the O's couldn't resurrect him. He could, at the very least, be a stop-gap and eat some innings until the good arms arrive.

We all know Jones, Tillman and Sherrill were great pieces to the Berdard deal. It was a great return. My question is...Do you feel like the Reds deal could have benefitted this team more?

Obviously the lineup below could use some tweaking here and there but I think that would be the best lineup the O's could put out in the upcoming season. if Roberts were to be traded for Floyd and Getz, use your imagination. How about if the O's did flip Olson for Pie? This is what the team could look like...

1. Izturis R SS
2. Markakis L RF
3. Weiters S C
4. Votto L 1B
5. Huff L DH
6. Encarnacion R 3B
7. Scott L LF
8. Reimold R CF
9. Izturis R SS


Can I ask...Who the heck would the O's be spending their money on right now?

01-09-2009, 05:30 PM
Hard to tell. The Astros once offered Oswalt for Tejada. There are alot of woulda-coulda-shoulda that never happened...

01-09-2009, 05:45 PM
thats what the orioles wanted, had cincy have offered those 4 it would have been a done deal, actually what they were offering was 2 of the 3 votto, bailey, cueto along with encarncion... it is still an interesting topic though considering how good the those all 3 of those guys are going to be.

I think if we could have pulled another trade last year and gotten more for sherrill it would make that trade even better

bigity b
01-09-2009, 05:56 PM
^^^ that answers it best.

Remember when the Marlins offered us Beckett (and Lowell as the throw-in) but we turned it down because we refused to accept Lowell as part of the deal. Then they went to the Red Sox, Beckett becomes a strong, solid #1 and Lowell wins the WS MVP....

Remember a few years back when we were talking with the Angels about sending Tejada there and they were going to send us some combination of Escobar, Santana, Aybar, Kendrick, Rivera, when they were all prospects...

Remember when the Phillies offered us Burrell two-three years ago, we turned it down, and then they traded Abreu (still a FA by the way) to the Yanks....

Terptilidie3 - I understand what you're trying to say because they are all young guys who performed well in their introduction to the mlb, but do you think you're commenting more on the O's scouting office? I.E. if we knew it was such a one-sided offer we should have jumped on it. Also, i think McPhail prefers to stock-pile young arms over position players which is why we did the Seattle trade. Lastly, didnt we get more than just Sherill, Tillman, and Jones? I could have sworn we got 5 guys, 3 of which were minor league pitchers (Tillman included).

Also looking more into it, I think its a push really. The only guy i drool about is Votto but our concilliary prize is Adam Jones (not bad). Encarnacion is nice but doesnt overwhelm me and wouldnt have a position here (plus he's older than 25 and has been in the majors for awhile). The two pitchers are just like everyone else we have in the system now. Aren't what we have supposed to be just as good this year and/or next? With Sherill, if he comes out in 09 like 08, we can flip him for more prospects too.

01-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Remember, there was different front office for those potential deals/offers.
It'll be interesting to see what transpires with, what looks to me, like forward thinking.
As long as St. Peter just signs the checks, it'll be better.....

01-12-2009, 02:53 PM
I still remember Beckett deal and remember saying "WTF" why didn't we pull that trigger? Lowell was rumored to be a bigger user of the juice and thats the reason why he had a down year....but then again it seemed like 200 current/former Orioles were on the juice...none of which named Brady Anderson.

bigity b
01-12-2009, 04:14 PM
^^^ surely you're not naming Brady because he was a career 10-20 HR a year hitter and then hit 50 HR that one magical year. I thought it was due to hard work and that 'it' finally clicked. hahahaha. but i digress. Remind me, who did the Marlins want again? it's killing me i cant remember. i just remember it being beyond one-sided.