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View Full Version : houston is not a contender.. i surrender..



airborne_06
01-02-2009, 10:15 PM
im a huge rockets fan. but this kind of team really makes me sad.. i dont know what the core problem of this team.. they have good starters/players, the bench is deep, the rookie and the veterans are equal in numbers, etc. What do you think the cause guys? is it tmac in not playing with his heart and he's also done? is it yao ming, because the offense of rockets is focused on him, the coaching system.. it's not about the health issues, because they can play together now, i think tmac should be traded.... beaten by raptors by 20+ points!!! how pathetic!!

SFloridaSports
01-02-2009, 10:19 PM
i could have told you that in the beginning of the season

TMAC94
01-02-2009, 10:20 PM
have too agree as of now we are not contentender we are playing as a team who is fighting for the 8th seed and its depressing

RocketsRule
01-02-2009, 10:20 PM
T-Mac has been sucking dick this season... For us to even sniff a championship we need him getting 22 points per game...

superkegger
01-02-2009, 10:20 PM
I think they're still just feeling everything out and getting healthy, its no time to panic or give up. This is what the season is for, to sort out your issues, and get things right for the playoffs.

lakers4sho
01-02-2009, 10:25 PM
Wrong combination of players I guess. I mean, their team looks amazing on paper but it's all about how the team mesh. If this continues throughout the season then we have a problem.

But seriously, you shouldn't lose by 20 esp. against a struggling Eastern team.

airborne_06
01-02-2009, 10:27 PM
i remembered before that tmac is also acting that before while he his in orlando, he plays really bad and no heart and dedication.. he was traded to houston and plays better.. but now? the same old storry. i think tmac wants to be traded because he acts it again.. playing bad to get to be traded... he wants to play with kobe..

airborne_06
01-02-2009, 10:28 PM
Wrong combination of players I guess. I mean, their team looks amazing on paper but it's all about how the team mesh. If this continues throughout the season then we have a problem.

But seriously, you shouldn't lose by 20 esp. against a struggling Eastern team.

thats the reason why i panic...

superkegger
01-02-2009, 10:32 PM
You're panicking because of one bad game? Come on. it's one game. It happens, to everyone. The Celtics lost to the Warriors, the Lakers to the Kings, it doesn't end their season or championship hopes. You can't win em all. They've got to figure it out, adjust to what Tmac still can do and what he can't. they'll work it out.

marvILLous
01-02-2009, 10:36 PM
hey c'mon, the raptors are championship contenders now. :p

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-02-2009, 10:38 PM
im a huge rockets fan. but this kind of team really makes me sad.. i dont know what the core problem of this team.. they have good starters/players, the bench is deep, the rookie and the veterans are equal in numbers, etc. What do you think the cause guys? is it tmac in not playing with his heart and he's also done? is it yao ming, because the offense of rockets is focused on him, the coaching system.. it's not about the health issues, because they can play together now, i think tmac should be traded.... beaten by raptors by 20+ points!!! how pathetic!!

Yup, you guys are done. You should just trade Artest to the Lakers for Walton straight up.:)

On a serious note. I dont think they have been healthy all year long. They are very talented and deep. They will be more than fine. They match up very well with every team in the league and would be a scary team for any opponent.

BlondeBomber41
01-02-2009, 10:41 PM
I think they're still just feeling everything out and getting healthy, its no time to panic or give up. This is what the season is for, to sort out your issues, and get things right for the playoffs.

They have been trying to get healthy for 4 seasons. They are just a injury plagued team that is built around two great players who just havent proven they can stay consistently healthy.

goku
01-02-2009, 10:42 PM
t-mac is pulling an orlando i have been a fan of his but its obvious why he has not won anything artest yao are the only ones playing hard

G-Funk
01-02-2009, 11:01 PM
i remembered before that tmac is also acting that before while he his in orlando, he plays really bad and no heart and dedication.. he was traded to houston and plays better.. but now? the same old storry. i think tmac wants to be traded because he acts it again.. playing bad to get to be traded... he wants to play with kobe..
I don't think he wants to play with Kobe that bad.

Chronz
01-02-2009, 11:05 PM
t-mac is pulling an orlando i have been a fan of his but its obvious why he has not won anything artest yao are the only ones playing hard
Tmac has always had that demeanor the difference is that hes not healthy and lacking the confidence in his knee to go all out, give him time. Artest is the opposite, hes tough enough to play through pain but his effort leads to turnovers and low% shots, hes at his best when he spots up and attacks collapsing defenses, going to him on isolations is whats killed the Rockets all year. Yaos effort can never be questioned but his basketball IQ and conditioning can. He never knows when anyone is around him, which is hard to do I guess for his height but other than that hes been great.


i remembered before that tmac is also acting that before while he his in orlando, he plays really bad and no heart and dedication.. he was traded to houston and plays better.. but now? the same old storry. i think tmac wants to be traded because he acts it again.. playing bad to get to be traded... he wants to play with kobe..
Your reading too into things, Tmac doesnt want to play this bad.




But on topic, yes the Rockets are definitely not contenders right now, but think of it this way. Their 3 franchise players will all play better and Battier will return to provide the proper balance of talent, and theyre still in the mix of it.

As for the game, the Raptors benefited from not having Jermaine.

FOBolous
01-02-2009, 11:23 PM
on paper...the Rockets look like a GREAT team. Morey, the new General Manager, took an already good 50+ wins team and added more quality players to the team so as the result...the Rockets have a great starting 5, a deep solid bench, and a quality coach but despite all of that, they're still struggling.

i thought long and hard about why the Rockets are struggling so much and I came up with two weak links on the team

1. the coach...Adleman's a great coach and all but his style of play doesn't match with our team. whenever Adleman tried to make the Rockets play his style of offense (the Princeton Offense) the Rockets struggle and lose so inevitabily...the Rockets go back to playing the inside-out offense Jeff Van Gundy uses. The other problem is that the reason why the Rockets have been such a great team in season past is because of our defense and unfortuantely...defense is not Adleman's forte. We defended well last year during Adleman's first season but, in my opinion, is because of Jeff Van Gundy's left over influence. And as yall can see...the Rockets aren't defending nearly as well this year despite the fact that we have two of the league's best wing defenders on the team.

2. Tmac...what can I say about him? drama drama drama. one day he says he's 100% and the next day, he says he's going through excrusiating pain. one day he says he's "injured" even though the doctors told him he's ok but he wants to himself out anyways. I think Tmac's drama is really getting to the team and keeping the team from being focused.




in addition to the two weak links, there's also a third problem and that's injuries. All our starters along with key bench players have been injured, is still injured, trying to recover from injury, or is still injured. Rafer Alston's been injured...Tmac's been injured, is still injured (so he claims), and is trying to recover from his injury...Artest is playing injured...Yao's still injured...Battier's been in and out...Brent Barry has been injured...ect ect ect. For a large part of the season, the Rockets have not played with all there starters and because of all in the injury...the Rockets have yet to play with a consistant starting 5...our starting 5 changes almost every game and all the changes/injury makes it hard for our players to establish chemistry with each other.

JordansBulls
01-03-2009, 12:03 AM
im a huge rockets fan. but this kind of team really makes me sad.. i dont know what the core problem of this team.. they have good starters/players, the bench is deep, the rookie and the veterans are equal in numbers, etc. What do you think the cause guys? is it tmac in not playing with his heart and he's also done? is it yao ming, because the offense of rockets is focused on him, the coaching system.. it's not about the health issues, because they can play together now, i think tmac should be traded.... beaten by raptors by 20+ points!!! how pathetic!!

It wasn't until the middle of the year that the Rockets clicked last year. All they need is the #2 seed and they won't be too far off from that all year.

Hawkeye15
01-03-2009, 12:05 AM
God blessed Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady, with athletic ability and size that would make MJ jealous. He also gave them a vagina. Therein lies the problem. Neither will ever lead a team to anything.

JordansBulls
01-03-2009, 12:09 AM
God blessed Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady, with athletic ability and size that would make MJ jealous. He also gave them a vagina. Therein lies the problem. Neither will ever lead a team to anything.

Yao is the leader of the team it is clear. The team will only go as far as Yao takes them.

Hawkeye15
01-03-2009, 12:11 AM
Yao is the leader of the team it is clear. The team will only go as far as Yao takes them.

which is home in the first round. Again.

heyman321
01-03-2009, 12:27 AM
Man I went to this game 4 hours ago, it was great, they got blown out hahha. But god damn it, Kapono didn't get me my pizza!!!

GSW fan
01-03-2009, 12:31 AM
rockets are more garbage than garbage

astrosmaniac
01-03-2009, 01:00 AM
rockets are more garbage than garbage

says the guy whos a fan of a team that thinks they can win by stock pilling guards and having 1 decent big man

Nets fan 93
01-03-2009, 01:16 AM
15 ppg from T-mac? :speechless:

x_notorious
01-03-2009, 01:22 AM
But wait, I thought Mutombo was the 'final piece'? :rolleyes:

I don't see a reason why to panic. They are 8 games above .500 and currently the 7th seed in a tough, tough Western Conference. All they need to do is to get healthy and win road games.

Chronz
01-03-2009, 01:53 AM
But wait, I thought Mutombo was the 'final piece'? :rolleyes:

I don't see a reason why to panic. They are 8 games above .500 and currently the 7th seed in a tough, tough Western Conference. All they need to do is to get healthy and win road games.

Mutombo isnt with the team yet, bring that one back out when he actually gets to play meaningful minutes.

x_notorious
01-03-2009, 01:57 AM
Mutombo isnt with the team yet, bring that one back out when he actually gets to play meaningful minutes.

Exactly my point. The person who made this thread is giving up way to early.

But I still doubt a 42 year old, back-up center is the 'missing piece' for the Rockets.

Chronz
01-03-2009, 01:58 AM
on paper...the Rockets look like a GREAT team. Morey, the new General Manager, took an already good 50+ wins team and added more quality players to the team so as the result...the Rockets have a great starting 5, a deep solid bench, and a quality coach but despite all of that, they're still struggling.

i thought long and hard about why the Rockets are struggling so much and I came up with two weak links on the team

1. the coach...Adleman's a great coach and all but his style of play doesn't match with our team. whenever Adleman tried to make the Rockets play his style of offense (the Princeton Offense) the Rockets struggle and lose so inevitabily...the Rockets go back to playing the inside-out offense Jeff Van Gundy uses. The other problem is that the reason why the Rockets have been such a great team in season past is because of our defense and unfortuantely...defense is not Adleman's forte. We defended well last year during Adleman's first season but, in my opinion, is because of Jeff Van Gundy's left over influence. And as yall can see...the Rockets aren't defending nearly as well this year despite the fact that we have two of the league's best wing defenders on the team.

2. Tmac...what can I say about him? drama drama drama. one day he says he's 100% and the next day, he says he's going through excrusiating pain. one day he says he's "injured" even though the doctors told him he's ok but he wants to himself out anyways. I think Tmac's drama is really getting to the team and keeping the team from being focused.




in addition to the two weak links, there's also a third problem and that's injuries. All our starters along with key bench players have been injured, is still injured, trying to recover from injury, or is still injured. Rafer Alston's been injured...Tmac's been injured, is still injured (so he claims), and is trying to recover from his injury...Artest is playing injured...Yao's still injured...Battier's been in and out...Brent Barry has been injured...ect ect ect. For a large part of the season, the Rockets have not played with all there starters and because of all in the injury...the Rockets have yet to play with a consistant starting 5...our starting 5 changes almost every game and all the changes/injury makes it hard for our players to establish chemistry with each other.

Battier isnt up to speed and Artest is more of a gambler, Yao and Hayes arent the forces they were last year, Tmac and Rafer are also noticeably less quicker laterally. The team defense is solid and to say Adelman's forte ISNT defense is laughable. The guy got a bunch of softies in Sacramento to play elite defense once and has always gotten his Portland teams to play D. I wouldnt say hes not a good defensive coach. I agree JVG would be a much better fit but its not because of their defensive philosophy. I like how Yao doesnt have to show on every pick and roll anymore, it was never his strength and he definitely cant do it anymore.

You already know how I feel about the rest of your points so I wont comment on that.

Chronz
01-03-2009, 02:12 AM
Exactly my point. The person who made this thread is giving up way to early.

But I still doubt a 42 year old, back-up center is the 'missing piece' for the Rockets.
That depends, he helps them tremendously if he can return to his prior form then he provides the Rockets with everything they need from their 2nd unit. Assuming the team ever gets healthy enough to begin playing with the rotation they envisioned.

The Rockets are 9PTS worse when Yao isnt on the court, while its a sign of Yao's defensive superiority it shouldnt be THAT high, in previous seasons the margin was either none or atleast -2 and that was with a much more dominant Yao.

Think of it this way, the Rockets have always won the positional battle at Center by a fair margin. Over the past 2 years prior to this season, the Rockets have maintained a +4PER rating at the 5spot, and thats with Yao missing half the season at times.

This year, with Yao playing every game they are a +0.5. And its not due to the offense. Opposing centers are shooting 51% when over the past few years it was around 46. The main culprit: Hayes. Hes a dominant defender when he can play his natural spot but playing him as the backup Center is embarrassing to his talent (All 6"5 of him). Opposing centers shoot 60% when hes on the court, basically ridding him of his only use in this league. Scola has played some more center this year but bigs are abusing him too.

Dikembe slides everyone back down to their natural spots, its sad to know but Deke is incredibly valuable to the Rockets. Remember that magic number of 46%, thats what centers shot when Deke was in the game, its not a coincidence, hes a dominant defender even at his advanced age.

superkegger
01-03-2009, 02:23 AM
They have been trying to get healthy for 4 seasons. They are just a injury plagued team that is built around two great players who just havent proven they can stay consistently healthy.

Fair enough. But if they can pull it together and stay healthy for the last half of the season and the playoffs, they could be a dangerous team. Obviously big if's for this team though.


God blessed Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady, with athletic ability and size that would make MJ jealous. He also gave them a vagina. Therein lies the problem. Neither will ever lead a team to anything.

:laugh2:

Iodine
01-03-2009, 02:29 AM
God blessed Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady, with athletic ability and size that would make MJ jealous. He also gave them a vagina. Therein lies the problem. Neither will ever lead a team to anything.

They share a single vagina?

that must be painful

And they are nowhere near contenders right now

thapharcyd
01-03-2009, 02:42 AM
I have been most surprised by Rockets inability to score in long stretches... it is really strange.. they have a lot of games in the 70-80 range

JordansBulls
01-03-2009, 02:50 AM
I have been most surprised by Rockets inability to score in long stretches... it is really strange.. they have a lot of games in the 70-80 range

You would think with 3 guys who can score 25-30 ppg you wouldnt have that problem.

Chronz
01-03-2009, 05:39 PM
You would think with 3 guys who can score 25-30 ppg you wouldnt have that problem.
Why not, what if its a bunch of chuckers who cant adjust to less shots? You gotta take into consideration how they amassed those PT totals. If you have alot of high usage players on the same team their rate of shot attempts is obviously going to drop among all of them. A player has a certain skill curve on how many possessions he requires to be an efficient player. Artest has all but failed to adapt in that 3rd role, right now hes a downgrade offensively from the ultra efficient Battier, his presence means alot to the team (+8.9Per100Possesions). With Tmac playing how he is, he also brings down the overall rating though on his part offensively hes not gotten less efficient with less possessions hes just become more inconsistent with his injuries, Artest plays hard but hes just reckless offensively. His Defense more than makes up for it, but its far from the Artest he needed to have a great offensive team. Yao is the only one whos become more efficient with less possessions. Problem is he should be MORE of a priority, not less, atleast according to all the JVG supporters (myself included).



Big 3's Usage and Efficiency Ratings
2009 2008 2007 (Under JVG)
Yao Ming 26.7% (113) 27.1% (112) 33.5% (111)
T-Mac 23.5% (106) 30.4% (104) 35.0% (106)
Artest 23.5% (100) 25.5% (106) 23.3% (108)


The offense falls on Artest, the Defense falls on Tmac. These 2 need to get their act together. You cant show me an elite offensive team whos big3 played like this.

It'll be interesting to see where the Rockets go from here, if its just a matter of Tmacs health so be it, but what about Artest? I understand how important he is to the defense but what will it take for his offense to come around. Your not going to win a title if hes your 2nd best player.

QUICKTRADE
01-03-2009, 05:50 PM
solution!!!!! find a trade partners that will answer some loop hole in your team.

Lakersfan2483
01-03-2009, 06:02 PM
God blessed Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady, with athletic ability and size that would make MJ jealous. He also gave them a vagina. Therein lies the problem. Neither will ever lead a team to anything.

Exactly, it's all about leadership and the Rockets' don't have that in Tracy McGrady and I don't think Yao has the personality to lead effectively.

Lakersfan2483
01-03-2009, 06:03 PM
You would think with 3 guys who can score 25-30 ppg you wouldnt have that problem.

It's not only about talent, it's about "leadership" and they don't have that.

JJ_JKidd
01-03-2009, 11:02 PM
Funny the Rockets were considered as favorites to win the title at the start of the season... The team that gets no love the Mavs though are now ahead of them at 5th... And with the injury bug biting again,,, the Rockets are in danger of falling to the 8th spot in the West.

mjt20mik
01-03-2009, 11:05 PM
t-mac is pulling an orlando i have been a fan of his but its obvious why he has not won anything artest yao are the only ones playing hard

He's pulling a Carter! :D

It runs in their blood I guess (Tmac & Carter are cousins).

Chronz
01-03-2009, 11:10 PM
He's pulling a Carter! :D

It runs in their blood I guess (Tmac & Carter are cousins).

They dont share the same bloodline but good effort anyways

IndyRealist
01-03-2009, 11:28 PM
Wrong combination of players I guess. I mean, their team looks amazing on paper but it's all about how the team mesh. If this continues throughout the season then we have a problem.

But seriously, you shouldn't lose by 20 esp. against a struggling Eastern team.

Well the Pacers have beaten the Lakers, Rockets, Hawks, and annihilated the Celtics. They're 12-21. Some bad teams just have good nights.

I think Houston's problem is that they're not efficient. They have a low number of possessions per game, while T-mac and Artest are both volume shooters with very low percentages. McGrady needs to pick his spots and not take 20 shots a game. Yao's the only one on the team that's particularly efficient with the ball. The supporting cast is made of rebounders, defensive players, and energy guys.

Houston probably needs to lose either Artest or McGrady and pick up an efficient mid-range shooter who can operate in the half court, like Rip Hamilton or Hedo Turkulu.

skyhibballpj87
01-03-2009, 11:38 PM
im a huge rockets fan. but this kind of team really makes me sad.. i dont know what the core problem of this team.. they have good starters/players, the bench is deep, the rookie and the veterans are equal in numbers, etc. What do you think the cause guys? is it tmac in not playing with his heart and he's also done? is it yao ming, because the offense of rockets is focused on him, the coaching system.. it's not about the health issues, because they can play together now, i think tmac should be traded.... beaten by raptors by 20+ points!!! how pathetic!!

its 35 games into the season you need to chill they are only a half a game behind the 5th spot. Dallas is a inconsitent team and so is phoenix i think houston is better then both those teams. The rockets are injury prone which is the reason for their non sucess i mean artest has missed 5 games mcrgrady has missed 12 yaos missed 5 the team just needs to play together more they have deep bench and if they stay healthy i think they can get it together. tmac prob should be traded but you guys arent doing that bad considering you havent had a healthy lineup for a good portion of the season

SC1211
01-04-2009, 01:12 AM
God blessed Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady, with athletic ability and size that would make MJ jealous. He also gave them a vagina. Therein lies the problem. Neither will ever lead a team to anything.

I hope you don't mind, but I put that quote in my sig.

BoltLakerPadre
01-04-2009, 01:46 AM
They really don't look good at all. Still a lot of season left, but I just don't see it.

JordansBulls
01-04-2009, 02:00 AM
They really don't look good at all. Still a lot of season left, but I just don't see it.

Yeah, right now they seem to be playing injured. However, when completely healthy they can beat anyone.

Teeboy1487
01-04-2009, 02:47 AM
I think every one here except a few are judging the rockets too quickly when there are over 50 games left. Let see how they play in March and April and then we can judge them.

JayW_1023
01-05-2009, 06:55 AM
The Rockets are always a popular pick to win it all as the season begins. And every year reality sets in harshly for them. They never live up to potential.