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View Full Version : Who's the Greatest Pitcher at the End of His Career?



Zmaster52
01-01-2009, 10:30 PM
Who do you think is the greatest pitcher who is near retirement? Maddux, Johnson,Clemens, Martinez...Etc..

I personally think that Randy Johnson, I mean he has 4800 strikeouts and almost 300 wins hes a soon to be hall of famer IMO:clap::clap::clap:

entropicsg
01-01-2009, 10:49 PM
Hate to say it, because he was a Brave for so many years, but I gotta give it to Maddux. If you look at each one of their most dominant stretches, and factor in all the HGH/juice factors of the era, I think Maddux and Pedro had the most dominant of dominant stretches. Then you factor in how Maddux did it for so long, so consistently... gotta tip your hat to the guy.

And yes, I know that he just retired. But I figure it was recently enough that he should get consideration too.

Zmaster52
01-01-2009, 10:54 PM
Yeah You're Right I mean look at clemens and others without steroids where would they have gotten? But Maddux and Martinez were in the era but you could tell that their pitches were pure and they were clean Pedro Greg and Randy were all dominant throughout their era reaching certain milestones that nobody else could hit and were practically the best but not as good as Nolan Ryan :"D

Drucifer
01-01-2009, 11:16 PM
I would say Nolan Ryan was still great at his career end.

CHRISDODGERS
01-01-2009, 11:20 PM
i would say nolan ryan was still great at his career end.

+1...

JHG722
01-01-2009, 11:21 PM
Jamie Moyer.

Matt-the-great
01-02-2009, 12:05 AM
Mad Dog Maddux... clean,class act and amazing

B-Balz
01-02-2009, 12:23 AM
I'd have to argue for Mussina. He showed everyone last year a player that can probably go another 3years with ease. He stays pretty clear of the DL and showed dominance.
These other guys have shown that either, they have trouble staying healthy, or could only hack it as a 4 or 5. Mussina could still be a 2 or 3 on many teams in the league.

Your Name Here
01-02-2009, 12:35 AM
I'm not sure I'd even have Nolan Ryan in my top 20 all time.....

He might sneak in around 18 or 19. Maybe.

Sport
01-02-2009, 12:41 AM
Guys like Glavine, Maddux, and Johnson are my vote. Maybe Clemens if there wasnt a cloud of uncertainty surrounding him.

homestarunner93
01-02-2009, 01:29 AM
1. Maddux
2. Pedro
3. Johnson

IndiansFan337
01-02-2009, 01:31 AM
Pedro had the most dominant stretch. But Johnson & Maddux sustained their success longer. Johnson was more dominant than Maddux, although Maddux always did get the job done. Maddux was one of the smartest & best prepared players ever.

nymetsrule
01-02-2009, 01:33 AM
Jamie Moyer.

Good, not great. There are better.

dbow1920
01-02-2009, 01:40 AM
Cole Hamels
Jamie Moyer
Kyle Kendrick

best pitchers of our time

nymetsrule
01-02-2009, 01:45 AM
Cole Hamels
Jamie Moyer
Kyle Kendrick

best pitchers of our time

Little young to be at the end of their career.:confused:

gauth25
01-02-2009, 01:55 AM
Right now I'm gonna have to go with Maddux, Mussina, Johnson. Maddux and Mussina did it there way. They fooled hitters even though they didn't have overpowering stuff they still did it. This goes more towards Maddux but Mussina learned to do this near his older days. Johnson is just filth. The guy is 44 and still striking out 170 batters a year.

dodgernation
01-02-2009, 02:42 AM
Maddux. Control master.

DJYankee
01-02-2009, 03:13 AM
i also got to go with maddux too. In his career he has been two different pitchers and to be

successful two times is amazing.

vinnyc1213
01-02-2009, 03:15 AM
Satchel Page, he pitched to 59 didn't he?

dbroncos78087
01-02-2009, 03:22 AM
If i had to build a team with the best pitcher i would want Maddux because you know you are going to get a guy who does the work that is needed. That level of control is extremely rare and he works so well with the rest of the pitching staff and catcher, plus he is the best fielder out of any pitcher i can think of.

UnWantedTheory
01-02-2009, 04:26 AM
I'd have to argue for Mussina. He showed everyone last year a player that can probably go another 3years with ease. He stays pretty clear of the DL and showed dominance.
These other guys have shown that either, they have trouble staying healthy, or could only hack it as a 4 or 5. Mussina could still be a 2 or 3 on many teams in the league.

He is also younger.

UnWantedTheory
01-02-2009, 04:29 AM
But yes...Maddux would be my vote as well. Smoltz, Schilling anyone?

Maz60
01-02-2009, 09:55 AM
This thread reminds me of the scene in the great Woody Allen film, Radio Days, where his parents are arguing which is the greater ocean, the Atlantic or Pacific. But okay, Ill cast my lot with Pedro, using the simple criteria of who was the best when they were at their best.

NYYankeesWin#27
01-02-2009, 10:12 AM
mike mussina

Sportfan
01-02-2009, 10:13 AM
I gotta go with pedro with maddux right behind him

15carlos21
01-02-2009, 04:21 PM
pedro was the most dominating pitcher to pitch in the last 25 years hands down. he was unhittable for a few years wen steroids made player in baseball a good hitter

StryderSox
01-02-2009, 05:43 PM
I'd have to argue for Mussina. He showed everyone last year a player that can probably go another 3years with ease. He stays pretty clear of the DL and showed dominance.
These other guys have shown that either, they have trouble staying healthy, or could only hack it as a 4 or 5. Mussina could still be a 2 or 3 on many teams in the league.

Not even in the same league brother

Gunzito22
01-02-2009, 05:54 PM
best pitcher at the end of their career??? Pedro does not even belong in this conversation as he has been a non-threat (due to injuries, unfortunately) for years... Clemens, Mussina, Glavine all deserve mention.... but it goes like this:

- Nolan Ryan
- Maddux
- Big Unit
- Schilling

in that order... conversation over

theLgndKllr35
01-03-2009, 03:31 PM
Cole Hamels. :cool:

Realistically,
Koufax, Ryan, Pedro, Page, and Maddux top the list.

nstachowski
01-03-2009, 03:39 PM
I would probably have to put maddux at the top

Your Name Here
01-03-2009, 03:57 PM
best pitcher at the end of their career??? Pedro does not even belong in this conversation as he has been a non-threat (due to injuries, unfortunately) for years... Clemens, Mussina, Glavine all deserve mention.... but it goes like this:

- Nolan Ryan
- Maddux
- Big Unit
- Schilling

in that order... conversation over

You are wrong. There's not enough words in the world to describe how wrong you are.

You need to take a look at a guy named Koufax. He won 3 CY's and an MVP in his last four seasons, and had an ERA over 2 in just one of those four years.

Ryan never came close to those numbers at any point in his career, and damn sure not at the end of his career. Ryan doesn't belong in any conversation about pitching and greatness.

1stballotHOF
01-03-2009, 04:28 PM
well clemens is hands down, but thats with the steorid allegations, so i go to the big unit.

tko248
01-03-2009, 09:40 PM
All time, not just the 2000's.

Nolan Ryan hands down, 1989=301 strikeouts, 1990=232, 1991=203, 1992=157 strikeouts. he retired after 27 yrs and those were his last 4.

you also have to give credit to grover alexander and walter johnson!!

Maz60
01-03-2009, 09:43 PM
Actually, I thought this thread intended a look at career stats, as the original poster did in his first post. Who cares how these legends are doing 10 minutes before retirement?

Your Name Here
01-03-2009, 10:21 PM
All time, not just the 2000's.

Nolan Ryan hands down, 1989=301 strikeouts, 1990=232, 1991=203, 1992=157 strikeouts. he retired after 27 yrs and those were his last 4.

you also have to give credit to grover alexander and walter johnson!!

If you really want to look at nothing more than Ks in a pitcher's final four seasons, then Koufax still trumps the hell out of Ryan.

'63 - 306
'64 - 223
'65 - 382
'66 - 317


Koufax's 1228 >>> Ryan's 893.




Seriously, the ONLY thing Ryan really has going for him is the no-hitters. I really don't understand why so many people shine his sack for simply that.

And if the idea is to look at a pitcher's entire career, Ryan probably doesn't even make the top 20.

Twinke Masta
01-03-2009, 10:32 PM
sandy

kRispy
01-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Mussina.

Yankeefan17
01-03-2009, 10:50 PM
Today, Randy Johnson. Especially since he's going another year. All time, Nolan Ryan or Sandy Koufax if he stayed healthy.

Jubiloman
01-03-2009, 11:14 PM
Sandy Koufax. Period. Nobody even comes close.

leiasgoldbikini
01-04-2009, 01:05 AM
If you really want to look at nothing more than Ks in a pitcher's final four seasons, then Koufax still trumps the hell out of Ryan.

'63 - 306
'64 - 223
'65 - 382
'66 - 317


Koufax's 1228 >>> Ryan's 893.




Seriously, the ONLY thing Ryan really has going for him is the no-hitters. I really don't understand why so many people shine his sack for simply that.

And if the idea is to look at a pitcher's entire career, Ryan probably doesn't even make the top 20.

Definitely doesn't make the top twenty.

Greenmonster24
01-04-2009, 01:17 AM
Pedro Martinex no doubt
He is one of the greatest pitchers ever.
No one not even Clemens or Maddux compares to him for the decade.
He has the nastiest stuff and how great he was from such a small size person.

Fidel Cashflow
01-04-2009, 01:57 AM
Jamie Moyer.


If you really mean best at the end

2008
Maddux - 8-13 3.71 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, .272 BAA

Martinez - 5-6 5.61 ERA, 1.57 WHIP, .294 BAA

Johnson - 11-10 3.91 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, .260 BAA

Clemens - disgraced


Moyer - 16-7 37.1 ERA. 1.33 WHIP, .262 BAA

And only Moyer plays in a CERTIFIABLE hitters park...

Career-Wise though... Maddux

LaChris22
01-04-2009, 12:39 PM
Id say Mussina just because he won 20 games in his final year before he retired.

Zmaster52
01-04-2009, 01:33 PM
Now---Big Unit still going strong Then----Nolan Ryan a pitcher who pitched great practically his whole career

urorurogyn
01-04-2009, 01:57 PM
Can't use and compare Koufax at the end of their career's because Koufax retired at age 30 because of a connective tissue disease which I think was rheumatoid arthritis. So comparing a 30 year old to a 47 year old is unfair to both Hall of Famers. But my vote is for Maddux & Johnson. Clemens should not be held in the same esteem because of the steroid allegations which I happen to believe along with Barry Bonds. Neither should make the Hall of Fame. If I had it my way neither would ever be on the ballot.

leiasgoldbikini
01-04-2009, 02:32 PM
Can't use and compare Koufax at the end of their career's because Koufax retired at age 30 because of a connective tissue disease which I think was rheumatoid arthritis. So comparing a 30 year old to a 47 year old is unfair to both Hall of Famers. But my vote is for Maddux & Johnson. Clemens should not be held in the same esteem because of the steroid allegations which I happen to believe along with Barry Bonds. Neither should make the Hall of Fame. If I had it my way neither would ever be on the ballot.

Perfectly said.

R. Johnson#3
01-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Gotta be Maddux.

I remember my Dad always talking about him when I was a little kid. Saying that he was one of the best in the business. Then as I grew up Maddux just kept doing the same thing year in year out. I'd say his last "dominant" season was 2002 but he still had some good seasons after that. Nothing dominant though.

tko248
01-05-2009, 01:10 PM
If you really want to look at nothing more than Ks in a pitcher's final four seasons, then Koufax still trumps the hell out of Ryan.

'63 - 306
'64 - 223
'65 - 382
'66 - 317


Koufax's 1228 >>> Ryan's 893.




Seriously, the ONLY thing Ryan really has going for him is the no-hitters. I really don't understand why so many people shine his sack for simply that.

And if the idea is to look at a pitcher's entire career, Ryan probably doesn't even make the top 20.

I agree Sandy was great, but keep in mind the end for sandy was at age 31, that is pretty much anyones prime. Ryan on the other hand did this at the tender age of 46. I would love to see the type of numbers Sandy would had put up if he was 46, im sure it would not come close to nolan's.

Zmaster52
01-05-2009, 10:39 PM
Big Unit Babeeee