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View Full Version : Hendrickson, O's close to agreement



Eicholtz
12-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Here is the link:

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081228&content_id=3729526&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

Is there anyone out there that thinks this is a good thing?

Here we go again just another typical lame signing by the Orioles. This is the type of guy they get in free agency. Trades and rebuilding the minors have been a big plus. But the free agents acquired have been horrible under MacPhail. I like the trades and the rebuilding of the minors. Great. But how about some of that MASN money to field a better than last place team. MacPhail's free agent acquistions have been terrible. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's almost like we need two GM's. One for trades (MacPhail) and another for free agents because he has brought nobody in. I know that isn't a real option it's just analogy. I am sick of seeing these losers getting shelter into Baltimore.

If they want to use the excuse of needing a bridge to the young arms why didn't they at least investigate Randy Johnson for a one year rental?

Oh well I could go on and on.............what do you think?

Thank God for the Ravens!!!!!!!!!!! LETS GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O's Boy15
12-29-2008, 04:50 PM
You're exactly right, just a typical O's free agent acquisition we've all gotten used to. (MacPhail has done a great job with trades though.)

Natede144
12-29-2008, 06:14 PM
There are a bunch of established veterans that can be had for $10 million or less for a one year deal, and all would have been far better signings.

1) Pedro Martinez
2) Brad Penny
3) Randy Johnson (If he would play on east coast)
4) Curt Schilling ( Not sure about his health)
5) Andy Pettite (Probably would'nt sign w/ B-more, but still)
6) Bartolo Colon (Pitched well for the Sox last year when healthy)
7) Freddie Garcia
8) Braden Looper
9) Mark Mulder ( Roll of the dice here but who knows)
10) Kenny Rogers
11) John Smoltz (Probably wants to play for contender)
12) Paul Byrd

Put any combination of these 5 guys together as our starting staff and we will probably still finish last but at least the O's would be more fun to watch and the young prospects would learn from some of the best ever.

Dashtary
12-29-2008, 06:35 PM
i dont know who this guy really is, but i guess its okay, what i dont get is why we dont just sign guys like martinez, colon, mulder,pavano, or garcia who are still young and are proben pitchers, despite some injuries. also heard that we are/had trade discussions with the rangers for blalock.

bal_ravens
12-29-2008, 09:12 PM
I remember before when the Orioles made that signing for some no named pitcher and everybody was like 'Who? We dont want him'. I can't seem to remember his name. Guthrie I think it was?

Anyway, the front office obviously knows a hell of alot more about baseball then we do. So I say we give him a chance before we start smashing on him. And just because these free agents are out there, doesnt mean they want to sign with us.

Eicholtz
12-29-2008, 11:00 PM
I remember before when the Orioles made that signing for some no named pitcher and everybody was like 'Who? We dont want him'. I can't seem to remember his name. Guthrie I think it was?

Anyway, the front office obviously knows a hell of alot more about baseball then we do. So I say we give him a chance before we start smashing on him. And just because these free agents are out there, doesnt mean they want to sign with us.

Guthrie was a former 1st round pick claimed off waivers under 30 years old and actually had potential. This guy presently 34 just may do better because he can't really do any worse. Have you looked at his numbers? Also have you heard Derek Lowe was considered too old at 35?

My frustration goes beyond this guy. If you read everyone that agrees with me is pissed at the quality of free agent that they bring in. I was one that couldn't careless if Teixeira came. I wanted to see pitching come in until the young guys were ready. Then let's say the veterans were here when the young guys were ready. You could then trade the vets and get more things you need. But we won't have to worry about that because they are not signing a free agent of any value. This guy supposedly did great in the bullpen but he is coming here to start. That should tell you something about how pathetic things are. Is he an upgrade from Cabrera?

And for the record the last time I said who in reference an Orioles signing it was not for Jeremy. I had actually heard of him. I reserved that for guys such as Alfredo Simon (baseball reference doesn't even know where he came from but I think the Mexican league) Brian Bass who they traded for, Fernando Cabrera, Victor Santos and those types. I also said "who" are they fooling when they brought back Traschel last year.

The fo made good trades and crappy free agent acquistions. I am all for the rebuilding but you need to field a team until then and they have dough. They were about to spend that much on one guy "supposedly". How about some of that scratch on their biggest need...pitching or resigning Markakis NOW!! Or resigning Roberts. But oh well. Let's hope Hendrickson can live up to the big shoes he has to fill being the big pitching acquistion.

srhorioles
12-30-2008, 12:30 AM
why? i wish this was a joke

is bruce chen next?

sboy2012
12-30-2008, 08:45 AM
There are a bunch of established veterans that can be had for $10 million or less for a one year deal, and all would have been far better signings.

1) Pedro Martinez
2) Brad Penny
3) Randy Johnson (If he would play on east coast)
4) Curt Schilling ( Not sure about his health)
5) Andy Pettite (Probably would'nt sign w/ B-more, but still)
6) Bartolo Colon (Pitched well for the Sox last year when healthy)
7) Freddie Garcia
8) Braden Looper
9) Mark Mulder ( Roll of the dice here but who knows)
10) Kenny Rogers
11) John Smoltz (Probably wants to play for contender)
12) Paul Byrd

Put any combination of these 5 guys together as our starting staff and we will probably still finish last but at least the O's would be more fun to watch and the young prospects would learn from some of the best ever.

The only way these guys would want to come to Baltimore is if we would over pay them, and why would we do that? The orioles are not contending, and any combination of five of those pitchers is not going to make us contenders.

bigity b
12-30-2008, 12:15 PM
My initial two reactions 1) I always trust McPhee regardless if its a signing or trade. He has more than proven himself and at least he's doing something. I'll take the signing for the pure fact we need a starter and this guy is flexible (i.e. could be moved to long relief in the bullpen if the young guns prove themselves and make it hard to demote) 2) there are no reports for how much he signed for. What if it was a 1 yr, $1 mil deal? Would you still hate it then? I dont think its a bad signing at all. He has now filled the Traschel slot.

As for the names below, I have added my comments after the --;


There are a bunch of established veterans that can be had for $10 million or less for a one year deal, and all would have been far better signings.

1) Pedro Martinez -- is he going to kick the ball over the plate? He had no arm for the past two years. period. And in a HR park, he would be beyond horrible.
2) Brad Penny -- didnt he just sign with the Red Sox last week?
3) Randy Johnson (If he would play on east coast) -- he's going to an immediate contender and already signed last week.
4) Curt Schilling ( Not sure about his health) -- umm... he hasnt played in two years and if and when he comes back, Boston has his rights.
5) Andy Pettite (Probably would'nt sign w/ B-more, but still) -- he's debating between retirement or the Yankees. Where do the O's fit in all of that?
6) Bartolo Colon (Pitched well for the Sox last year when healthy) -- i would sign him to a minimal deal and let him prove himself. But is he really that much better than Hendrickson?
7) Freddie Garcia -- see above
8) Braden Looper -- aren't we already in talks with him? I think we end up signing him too (but I said that about Tex also)
9) Mark Mulder ( Roll of the dice here but who knows) -- What?!? He's the guy who has pitched a total of 4 games in 2 years, right? What the hell do we want him for?
10) Kenny Rogers -- this list is just getting worse, BUT if the price were right (see 1 yr, $3 mil or so) then I would think about it.
11) John Smoltz (Probably wants to play for contender) -- I thought he was already signed for life with Atl.
12) Paul Byrd -- If the price were right. But he isnt any different than signing Hendrickson, Garcia, Colon, etc...

Put any combination of these 5 guys together as our starting staff and we will probably still finish last but at least the O's would be more fun to watch and the young prospects would learn from some of the best ever.

With your list above, I wouldnt spend $10 mil. combined for any of those guys but I would kick the tires on a few. I could see us signing maybe 1 or 2 off the list just to fill the middle of the rotation. Sounds like the O's are committed to keeping the young guns down a level and/or at the back of the rotation. My number 1 all offseason has been Ben Sheets - what about him as the #2 pitcher? I would spend $10 mil on him.

PS - get off McPhee's back! Questioning his decisions just doesnt make sense to me. He offered all that money for a guy who is a franchise changing player (Tex). They dont just fall off trees or become so available so often. All the other FA's are crap which is why we're not chasing or over paying for them. All the O's can do now is fill out the rotation and/or look at trade possibilities. Besides, what pitcher is biting at the chomp to come take a discount to pitch for the O's. At least McPhee aint f'n us by overspending and making contracts too long like Angelos liked to do the 5 years previous (see Denny Baez, Jamie Walker, Chad Bradford, Steve Traschel, Kris Benson, Melvin Mora, etc.)

Eicholtz
12-30-2008, 12:15 PM
The only way these guys would want to come to

Baltimore is if we would over pay them, and why would we do that? The orioles are not contending, and any combination of five of those pitchers is not going to make us contenders.

You are right they would have to overpay. And you are also right again because majority of them probably wouldn't want to come to Baltimore. But the thing is that they (the team) never ever do anything. Except for of course scrape the bottom of the barrell for some "diamonds in the rough" aka cheap subpar players that they expect everyone (the fans) to welcome with open arms. It is lame to see signings like this. have you really upgraded from Cabrera? They say he did great in the bullpen last year.....he is coming here to start. What does that tell you?

As far as money goes that should be the least of the concerns. They have plenty of it so that's not the issue. MASN brings them plenty of dough. 8 mill for one year for one pitcher would not kill them when they get over $100 million in a year from MASN.

What's worse? Spending and honestly trying to get a quality arm with the idea in mind that he might make you better or underspending on guys we all know suck and patching holes with has beens that quite frankly never have been? All the while saying they are rebuilding and that's fine but what about the present? They could sign a vet and trade him when the young guy is ready to take his spot.

From what I am getting many seem okay with this and that's really sad. If he was signed after a good pitcher was acquired then it wouldn't appear so pathetic. In all actuality this is the biggest pitching signing thus far.

When that statement is true do you really think they are dedicated to putting not a winning team but at least a half decent team on the field?

terp12354
12-30-2008, 12:39 PM
1) Pedro Martinez (injury prone)
2) Brad Penny (injury prone)
3) Randy Johnson (If he would play on east coast) (injury prone)
4) Curt Schilling ( Not sure about his health) (injury prone)
5) Andy Pettite (Probably would'nt sign w/ B-more, but still)
6) Bartolo Colon (Pitched well for the Sox last year when healthy) (injury prone)
7) Freddie Garcia (injury prone)
8) Braden Looper
9) Mark Mulder ( Roll of the dice here but who knows) (injury prone)
10) Kenny Rogers(injury prone)
11) John Smoltz (Probably wants to play for contender) (injury prone)
12) Paul Byrd

I have one big problem with almost everyone on that list, almost everyone is a serious health risk! The Orioles are NOT tyring to form a team to compete this year. They are not signing Hendrickson because they think he will be the key kog to a world series team. They are signing him because he offers bullpen/starter flexiblity and will go out and get you close to 200 innings almost every year. They want people who they can trot out there almost regardless of how they do, just someone who can go out there so the young guys can stay in the minors and develop. And the problem with signing any of these pitchers to 10mil contracts is I guarantee almsot none of them, if any are looking for one year contracts. I bet almsot all of them sign 2, maybe even 3 yr contracts. So what if we got someone like byrd for yoru suggest 8 mill for 3 yrs? The 8 millin would bel ike 1/8 of our overall payroll for a end of the rotation pitcher. Plus what if our young pitchers develop a bit quicker and are in the majors in 2 yrs pitchign really well, then what? We are handcuffed and either cut Byrd and lose 8 mill or we have an 8 mil long reliever. I bet Henderickson signed for a 1 or maybe 2 yr deal to allow the team some flexibility which is all they want from the pitchers they sign. Cheap, flexibilty, can pitch a lot of innings and wont lock up your money or block the prospects. We dont need any more Jamie walker's on our hands

bigity b
12-30-2008, 01:38 PM
^^^thank you.

Natede144
12-30-2008, 02:10 PM
You are all so right about that list. Its either filled with crap or players that would never sign with Baltimore. This is what this franchise has become, borderline Triple-A Caliber players with a few scattered promising young prospects like Mussina, Bedard, Loewen, Roberts and Markakis. All who have either left in a hurry or can't wait till they get the first opportunity to head out of town. Its not the money, the Orioles spend more than most, they just spend it on junk.

1) Kevin Millar
2) Melivin Mora ( His new deal)
3) Jay Payton
4) Denny Baez
5) Todd Walker
6) Steve Traschel (2x)
7) Marty Cordova
8) Kris Benson (Traded for John Maine no less)
9) Ramon Hernandez
10) And now Mark Hendrickson

The Orioles have always been just good enough to not get a top 3 pick, but just bad enough to always have a losing record. While we drafted losers and signed free agent losers Tampa Bay was the worst team in baseball accepted that for almost 10 years and stock-piled some of the leaugues best players and signed young free agents with upside potential ex Carlos Pena

Until we either decide to really purge the roster and become the worst team in baseball for awhile or choose instead to spend hundreds of millions on player like Teixiera, Matt Holliday, or other young superstars. We will be forever stuck in mediocrity.

sboy2012
12-30-2008, 05:17 PM
1) Pedro Martinez (injury prone)
2) Brad Penny (injury prone)
3) Randy Johnson (If he would play on east coast) (injury prone)
4) Curt Schilling ( Not sure about his health) (injury prone)
5) Andy Pettite (Probably would'nt sign w/ B-more, but still)
6) Bartolo Colon (Pitched well for the Sox last year when healthy) (injury prone)
7) Freddie Garcia (injury prone)
8) Braden Looper
9) Mark Mulder ( Roll of the dice here but who knows) (injury prone)
10) Kenny Rogers(injury prone)
11) John Smoltz (Probably wants to play for contender) (injury prone)
12) Paul Byrd

I have one big problem with almost everyone on that list, almost everyone is a serious health risk! The Orioles are NOT tyring to form a team to compete this year. They are not signing Hendrickson because they think he will be the key kog to a world series team. They are signing him because he offers bullpen/starter flexiblity and will go out and get you close to 200 innings almost every year. They want people who they can trot out there almost regardless of how they do, just someone who can go out there so the young guys can stay in the minors and develop. And the problem with signing any of these pitchers to 10mil contracts is I guarantee almsot none of them, if any are looking for one year contracts. I bet almsot all of them sign 2, maybe even 3 yr contracts. So what if we got someone like byrd for yoru suggest 8 mill for 3 yrs? The 8 millin would bel ike 1/8 of our overall payroll for a end of the rotation pitcher. Plus what if our young pitchers develop a bit quicker and are in the majors in 2 yrs pitchign really well, then what? We are handcuffed and either cut Byrd and lose 8 mill or we have an 8 mil long reliever. I bet Henderickson signed for a 1 or maybe 2 yr deal to allow the team some flexibility which is all they want from the pitchers they sign. Cheap, flexibilty, can pitch a lot of innings and wont lock up your money or block the prospects. We dont need any more Jamie walker's on our hands

Thanks dude, you more or less said everything that was needed to say. You saved my fingers some typing.

Eicholtz
12-30-2008, 05:27 PM
1) Pedro Martinez (injury prone)
2) Brad Penny (injury prone)
3) Randy Johnson (If he would play on east coast) (injury prone)
4) Curt Schilling ( Not sure about his health) (injury prone)
5) Andy Pettite (Probably would'nt sign w/ B-more, but still)
6) Bartolo Colon (Pitched well for the Sox last year when healthy) (injury prone)
7) Freddie Garcia (injury prone)
8) Braden Looper
9) Mark Mulder ( Roll of the dice here but who knows) (injury prone)
10) Kenny Rogers(injury prone)
11) John Smoltz (Probably wants to play for contender) (injury prone)
12) Paul Byrd

I have one big problem with almost everyone on that list, almost everyone is a serious health risk! The Orioles are NOT tyring to form a team to compete this year. They are not signing Hendrickson because they think he will be the key kog to a world series team. They are signing him because he offers bullpen/starter flexiblity and will go out and get you close to 200 innings almost every year. They want people who they can trot out there almost regardless of how they do, just someone who can go out there so the young guys can stay in the minors and develop. And the problem with signing any of these pitchers to 10mil contracts is I guarantee almsot none of them, if any are looking for one year contracts. I bet almsot all of them sign 2, maybe even 3 yr contracts. So what if we got someone like byrd for yoru suggest 8 mill for 3 yrs? The 8 millin would bel ike 1/8 of our overall payroll for a end of the rotation pitcher. Plus what if our young pitchers develop a bit quicker and are in the majors in 2 yrs pitchign really well, then what? We are handcuffed and either cut Byrd and lose 8 mill or we have an 8 mil long reliever. I bet Henderickson signed for a 1 or maybe 2 yr deal to allow the team some flexibility which is all they want from the pitchers they sign. Cheap, flexibilty, can pitch a lot of innings and wont lock up your money or block the prospects. We dont need any more Jamie walker's on our hands

"They are signing him because he offers bullpen/starter flexiblity and will go out and get you close to 200 innings almost every year. They want people who they can trot out there almost regardless of how they do, just someone who can go out there so the young guys can stay in the minors and develop."

And you are happy about that?

Let's take all the names on that list out of the equation. What would you think of signing a good pitcher? How about a guy whos purpose is more than just trotting out there and getting shellacked.

I can hear it now "wow he pitched a masterful game scattering 6 runs over 6 innings he really helped the bullpen out." And that is acceptable. It's not acceptable it's pathetic.

If this is what the team's ambitions have been reduced to then why even bother signing anyone? We had the likes of him before. He just signed with the Nationals and he was replaced with an almost 6era in the NL.

thegreatone08
12-30-2008, 07:17 PM
You don't need to have the top pick in the draft to get the next superstar. Alot of good players in the league right now aren't first round picks. It's all about being able to determine talent. And if you go back the last 15 years and look at we we have taken in the first round, and what players were takin in the first around after our selection, you would see exactly what I'm saying. Atleast McPhail can get good talent in the draft these days.

bal_ravens
12-30-2008, 07:33 PM
And we dont need those big time pitchers. Like the poster earlier said, most of them have injury problems. So we would get halfway through the season, 3 pitchers will be out for the year, and we are forced to bring up our young talent to get smacked up and have the next Penn, Liz, Olsen and so on....

Id rather have a guy that we can get cheap for now who can get us alot of innings then someone who is more expensive and gets hurt.

vetoedbyangelos
12-31-2008, 02:03 AM
Hendrickson does nothing for me. Unless he is a bargain signing (read as less than $3 million per year), I want nothing to do with him. If all we wanted was a warm body who could pitch every fifth day, why get rid of Cabrera? He wouldn't have been all that expensive - and at least he's still young.

The Orioles need a quality pitcher in their stable who can teach the kids HOW to pitch. That's why I think Ben Sheets or even Derek Lowe would be a good idea. Sheets is no more of an injury risk than Burnett, and he's cheaper. It would give us two quality starters, but MacPhail doesn't seem interested.

I understand he doesn't want to block our prospects, but Sheets is an asset - Hendrickson is a liability. You can convert any failed starter into a long reliever, it doesn't mean they possess any actual value.

Eicholtz
12-31-2008, 11:30 AM
My initial two reactions 1) I always trust McPhee regardless if its a signing or trade. He has more than proven himself and at least he's doing something. I'll take the signing for the pure fact we need a starter and this guy is flexible (i.e. could be moved to long relief in the bullpen if the young guns prove themselves and make it hard to demote) 2) there are no reports for how much he signed for. What if it was a 1 yr, $1 mil deal? Would you still hate it then? I dont think its a bad signing at all. He has now filled the Traschel slot.

As for the names below, I have added my comments after the --;



With your list above, I wouldnt spend $10 mil. combined for any of those guys but I would kick the tires on a few. I could see us signing maybe 1 or 2 off the list just to fill the middle of the rotation. Sounds like the O's are committed to keeping the young guns down a level and/or at the back of the rotation. My number 1 all offseason has been Ben Sheets - what about him as the #2 pitcher? I would spend $10 mil on him.

PS - get off McPhee's back! Questioning his decisions just doesnt make sense to me. He offered all that money for a guy who is a franchise changing player (Tex). They dont just fall off trees or become so available so often. All the other FA's are crap which is why we're not chasing or over paying for them. All the O's can do now is fill out the rotation and/or look at trade possibilities. Besides, what pitcher is biting at the chomp to come take a discount to pitch for the O's. At least McPhee aint f'n us by overspending and making contracts too long like Angelos liked to do the 5 years previous (see Denny Baez, Jamie Walker, Chad Bradford, Steve Traschel, Kris Benson, Melvin Mora, etc.)

Get off his back? WHY? Why give them a pass? I am not on his back actually I am on the organization's back as a whole. Also I can't believe more people aren't disgusted with this. Those guys you named are the problem with this team and proves my point to a T. because basically that is what I am saying. Granted that was a different fo. But whether you realize it or not THEY ARE ON THE SAME ROAD NOW. Saving and not spending. They are not fully investing in the team. This is a entertainment business and it's their responsibility to put a product on the field that people want to see. Do you want to watch Hendrickson every fifth day getting waxed? I don't. He is the type that they sign. No marquee guys just stiffs (or as Bobby Heenan used to say Ham and Eggers).

As far as the "hometown boy" goes. I was one of the ones that couldn't careless if he came or not. If he did I would have hoped he was signed after Markakis and Roberts and some pitching was acquired. being that is what they really need. Mark saw what awaited him if he came here. So why get paid less and lose more coming home? Because you know they lowballed their offer to him just to make all of you happy. They wanted to receive a hometown discount and as usual they didn't get the job done or get their man.

They have made great trades. I love the Ramon Hernandez trade and the ones from last year but all I am saying is why bother saying you are going to spend money and you don't. Why did they start MASN?? To compete with the big markets right? Well what have they done? They made some good trades and signed nothing but rubish.

I don't want to see players like the ones you named. But guess what they are signing Brad Hennessey, Caesar Izturis, Mark Hendrickson and from what I have been reading they are even looking at FREAKING RICHIE SUCKS SO BADLY SEXTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to sum this up by quoting Jimmy from South Park...."Come On"

Also I didn't write that list. If you read it someone else wrote that. So tell them you wouldn't sign any of those guys.

Eicholtz
12-31-2008, 11:33 AM
Hendrickson does nothing for me. Unless he is a bargain signing (read as less than $3 million per year), I want nothing to do with him. If all we wanted was a warm body who could pitch every fifth day, why get rid of Cabrera? He wouldn't have been all that expensive - and at least he's still young.

The Orioles need a quality pitcher in their stable who can teach the kids HOW to pitch. That's why I think Ben Sheets or even Derek Lowe would be a good idea. Sheets is no more of an injury risk than Burnett, and he's cheaper. It would give us two quality starters, but MacPhail doesn't seem interested.

I understand he doesn't want to block our prospects, but Sheets is an asset - Hendrickson is a liability. You can convert any failed starter into a long reliever, it doesn't mean they possess any actual value.

I am with you 400%. Thank you someone finally understands. You and yours have a Happy New Year!

bigity b
12-31-2008, 12:37 PM
Get off his back? WHY? Why give them a pass? I am not on his back actually I am on the organization's back as a whole. Also I can't believe more people aren't disgusted with this. Those guys you named are the problem with this team and proves my point to a T. because basically that is what I am saying. Granted that was a different fo. But whether you realize it or not THEY ARE ON THE SAME ROAD NOW. Saving and not spending. They are not fully investing in the team. This is a entertainment business and it's their responsibility to put a product on the field that people want to see. Do you want to watch Hendrickson every fifth day getting waxed? I don't. He is the type that they sign. No marquee guys just stiffs (or as Bobby Heenan used to say Ham and Eggers).

As far as the "hometown boy" goes. I was one of the ones that couldn't careless if he came or not. If he did I would have hoped he was signed after Markakis and Roberts and some pitching was acquired. being that is what they really need. Mark saw what awaited him if he came here. So why get paid less and lose more coming home? Because you know they lowballed their offer to him just to make all of you happy. They wanted to receive a hometown discount and as usual they didn't get the job done or get their man.

They have made great trades. I love the Ramon Hernandez trade and the ones from last year but all I am saying is why bother saying you are going to spend money and you don't. Why did they start MASN?? To compete with the big markets right? Well what have they done? They made some good trades and signed nothing but rubish.

I don't want to see players like the ones you named. But guess what they are signing Brad Hennessey, Caesar Izturis, Mark Hendrickson and from what I have been reading they are even looking at FREAKING RICHIE SUCKS SO BADLY SEXTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to sum this up by quoting Jimmy from South Park...."Come On"

Also I didn't write that list. If you read it someone else wrote that. So tell them you wouldn't sign any of those guys.

wow - someone's a cranky elf. look man dont take it so personal. ... to respond to your post, obviously the roster needs an upgrade to be more competitive but there just isnt anything out there. Who do you want to invest in? The guys on the roster already, brob and markakis, will be signed in due time. IF not im sure they'll be traded for something nice. and thats where i say trust McPhee and his plan.

The O's are trying to strike the balance between giving the young guys room to grow while also plugging holes with veterans. Yes we have young talent but we also have positions with no one slotted in (SP, 1B). The FA market sucks because teams keep their good players. Unfortunately we dont have internal answers for this year so we actually have to sign some guys. Rather than throw bombs for signing a guy like Hendrickson, try to find some positives. What's his strength - flexibility. Read: He can start the season as a starter and move to the bullpen if its not working and/or if some young arms are ready. It's a low, low risk high reward move. We're not counting on him to win us a ring, we're asking him to plug a hole. Any better options? You provided a list where I would still take Hendrickson over most of them. Besides, we dont even know the contract. If it's a 1 or 2 year deal, maybe 3, for nothing more than a few mil per what will you say then?

terp12354
12-31-2008, 01:21 PM
"They have made great trades. I love the Ramon Hernandez trade and the ones from last year but all I am saying is why bother saying you are going to spend money and you don't. Why did they start MASN?? To compete with the big markets right? Well what have they done? They made some good trades and signed nothing but rubish."

I think that part right there is the problem a lot of the Orioles Fans are ahving right now....for the last 15 years or so we HAVE been spending the money and we've won and lost by that. When Mcphail came in he said we were NOT going to do that. He was pretyt clear that he was going to reshape our minor leagues so we could grow within. We weren;t going to rush yougns studs anymore and ruin them, but let them develop at their pace. He also said, once the organization felt we were close to competing, they would selectively spend on the right player or two. Texiera they weer always a bit weary of cause they know they arent close but he is a franchise type player, so they didn't deviat from Mchpails plan and offer Tex 200 mill. He stuck to his plan about growing from within. The problem with this is we are compeltely reshaping an organization which is tough to do. We are going from a Yankess type philosophy (only bring in free agents with almost no home grown talent making any kind of impact) to a Rays to style (grow from within and the make a few key moves to bring in key pieces when you think your close, bartlett, garza, and their closser). This is tough to do and until we have young guys ready to bring up, we need to fil lthe top level with players. They wont be minor leaguers because Mcphail is syaing we wont promote too quickly, so we need to put someone out there and not spend a bunch of money or block any young players coming up. Sure they could sign petitie for 15 million or someone liek that, but what good does that do? You are going against your plan of not spending money and he wont be here when your winning and he cant help the young guys cause they are still in the minors!!! Mcphail is sticking to his plan and whether you agree with his plan or not this is the only way to do it and implement it corectly. Everyone has to remember the rays did a similar thing when their new gm came in and I believe that is what Mcphail is attempting. Yes it will suck for a couple seasons but if it allows players liek Reimold, Arrietta, Tillman, and Matsuz to be in the bigs and be SUCESSFUL in two years then I am all for it.

Eicholtz
12-31-2008, 04:04 PM
"They have made great trades. I love the Ramon Hernandez trade and the ones from last year but all I am saying is why bother saying you are going to spend money and you don't. Why did they start MASN?? To compete with the big markets right? Well what have they done? They made some good trades and signed nothing but rubish."

I think that part right there is the problem a lot of the Orioles Fans are ahving right now....for the last 15 years or so we HAVE been spending the money and we've won and lost by that. When Mcphail came in he said we were NOT going to do that. He was pretyt clear that he was going to reshape our minor leagues so we could grow within. We weren;t going to rush yougns studs anymore and ruin them, but let them develop at their pace. He also said, once the organization felt we were close to competing, they would selectively spend on the right player or two. Texiera they weer always a bit weary of cause they know they arent close but he is a franchise type player, so they didn't deviat from Mchpails plan and offer Tex 200 mill. He stuck to his plan about growing from within. The problem with this is we are compeltely reshaping an organization which is tough to do. We are going from a Yankess type philosophy (only bring in free agents with almost no home grown talent making any kind of impact) to a Rays to style (grow from within and the make a few key moves to bring in key pieces when you think your close, bartlett, garza, and their closser). This is tough to do and until we have young guys ready to bring up, we need to fil lthe top level with players. They wont be minor leaguers because Mcphail is syaing we wont promote too quickly, so we need to put someone out there and not spend a bunch of money or block any young players coming up. Sure they could sign petitie for 15 million or someone liek that, but what good does that do? You are going against your plan of not spending money and he wont be here when your winning and he cant help the young guys cause they are still in the minors!!! Mcphail is sticking to his plan and whether you agree with his plan or not this is the only way to do it and implement it corectly. Everyone has to remember the rays did a similar thing when their new gm came in and I believe that is what Mcphail is attempting. Yes it will suck for a couple seasons but if it allows players liek Reimold, Arrietta, Tillman, and Matsuz to be in the bigs and be SUCESSFUL in two years then I am all for it.

I understand the rebuilding process. It is 10 years overdue. And I understand things are going to suck as well. But things have sucked since 97 so what's the difference. It's just different people and different wordplay they are using. My problem is this if they don't spend money on good players then don't bring in crappy half dead ones either like Hendrickson and don't even mention Sexton. If they want to go cheap fine but you have to admit that they can do better than this right? You see what I mean?

jcphik
12-31-2008, 05:25 PM
Better then Sexson :shrug:

terp12354
12-31-2008, 08:53 PM
Ya I def. see what you mean and i think Sexson is horrible.......but really could you do better than Henderickson at 1 yr for 1.5 million? I mean im not sure you can get any better than that for the price. If we had kept Cabrera for instance he would have made close to 5 million in arbitration and the nationals even gave him 2.6 million, so we are still saving a million.....I just don't know who we could have gotten that was better for that price, but I def get your point.

wizind33
12-31-2008, 11:28 PM
I'd like to see the o's get pavano/byrd for the 2 yr deals till our crop finally comes in
byrd could help eat some inns. and provide help for younger guys. Pavano could prove
he was the pitcher he once was w/marlins...with an incentive contact and eat inns.
also

vetoedbyangelos
01-02-2009, 05:19 AM
I'm okay with the Hendrickson deal, but it's a band-aid for a bullet hole. I've got more than enough patience to see our rebuilding process through, but that doesn't mean our free agent acquisitions have to be irrelevant.

I'm disappointed we didn't get Teixeira, but I think it's probably for the best. What isn't, however, is adding guys like Hendrickson and calling it progress. It's just the second coming of Steve Trachsel - without Trachsel's resume.

Hendrickson might work as a reliever just fine, but I'd rather take a look at Kam Mickolio or James Hoey. And yes, he can eat innings in the rotation - but wouldn't I rather watch Ben Sheets? Yes, he's more expensive, but we can afford it.

I'm tired of people pretending that the Orioles are a small-market team. They're not. We don't spend like a small market team, and thanks to MASN, our revenue stream isn't like one either. We have the resources to add some quality without bankrupting ourselves. It's not a matter of being competitive - it's a matter of respecting your fans and doing what you can to ease the pain of a 12th losing season. It's about respecting your season ticket holders and their investment. It's about protecting your farm system.

Sorry about the rant. Responding to wizind33, I think Pavano would be a good bet with an incentive-heavy deal and a club option for 2010. Byrd might be a little too old. I just don't see why we can't have a little good news this winter.

terp12354
01-02-2009, 09:12 AM
I agree, I like Ben Sheets as well, but two things.....does he have any itnerest even coming here? because I havent heard us mentioned at all. And two, he's going to be getting a short term deal from someone to tprove he is healthy. So we would be throwing say 8 mill a year for two years at a guy who when healthy is very good, but honestly wont help us win because we wont be competitive in the next two years. So as soon as we start to get compettive he will either leave or we wil lbe forced to sign him to a bigger contract and screw someone like say Adam Jones who will be coming off arbitration about then. I agree we arent a small market team but Mcphail isnt going to go spending just to make a losing team 5 games better. Honestly id rather us not sign Ben sheets and have 70 wins instead of 75 and give that extra 8 million a yr to Markakis right now to wrap him up long term. The o's have said they want to rebuild and win around a group consisting of Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Weiters, Arrieta, Matsuz, Tillman and Brad B (spelling?). Once that group is ready in two yrs or so the o's wil lbe spending again like a major market team in order to add the missing pieces to that core. In the meantime, signing these higher paid guys would just be a super expensive bandaid that in reality would only add a few wins to the bottom line this year and not be helpful to our future when we do compete

But i do agree with you in that I think sheets is intersting, but the only way I do it, so it fits with the new o's philosophy is if we sign him to liek a 2 yr guarenteed deal with like 3 years of team options after that, just in case he isnt healthy. I have a feeling he would never do that though

vetoedbyangelos
01-02-2009, 10:55 PM
I guess what I'm saying is this: Ben Sheets isn't close to signing, and yet, he possesses enormous talent. He's reasonably priced, and yes he's a risk - but that's the type of risk we need to take. I agree that MacPhail might not consider it prudent for 2009, but by 2010, it could be worthwhile. He would give us a second starter who could teach our prospects - and if he really excels, we can just trade him for high value prospects. It's worth the risk, and I think it's worth the money. Also, don't underestimate how bad our starting pitching is. The difference between Sheets and Hendrickson is night and day. Now, compare Sheets to Chris Waters. Sheets is every bit as good as Jeremy Guthrie, probably better. That gives us a fair chance to win with two of our starters. Remember, whatever hack we toss into the rotation is going head-to-head with A.J. Burnett, Jon Lester, Matt Garza, David Price, Andy Sonnanstine, and the like. Sheets can compete - Brian Burres can't.

vetoedbyangelos
01-02-2009, 10:57 PM
That's assuming they don't slot in against the other team's aces. Then you're stuck with a AAAA pitcher against Josh Beckett, Scott Kazmir, James Shields, Chien Ming Wang, Roy Halladay, and C.C. Sabathia. That's A LOT of hardware.