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Sportfan
12-24-2008, 12:32 PM
^^^ do the yankees hurt major league baseball, and are the Yankees the reason more and more fans are turning over to football? Everyone knows that its much easier to win in the NFL than the MLB because of the salary cap. On sportscenter today, Buster Olney said that the Tex signing could lead into a potential strike in a couple of years with the current economy. I also found another article by Phil Sheridan who talks about how the Yankees are bad for baseball. Do you agree with this?

REGular
12-24-2008, 12:46 PM
well I dunno about financially what the effects are and how that will effect baseball long-term, but competitively as a fan (of the Florida Marlins, no less) I love these acquisitions.

The bottom line, to me, is that they don't win championships this way yet they continue to throw the money around and pretend like they are now a championship team.

To me it's very similar to the Mets the last couple of years. You can spend all the money you want but you still have to field a solid all-around team out there.

Assuming CC's arm doesn't fall off their rotation is extremely suspect, in my opinion. Both Wang and AJ have spent serious time on the DL in recent years. And after that they got (Hughes & Kennedy?) a couple of unproven prospects who are supposed to compete at this extremely high level of expectations and performance.

I think they will have a good time beating down the poorer teams in the league (most notably the Blue Jays & the Orioles) but will still have to work hard on the field to compete with the Red Sox & the Rays.

To conclude - I don't think it hurts baseball because every team has to create success within their own means. Had the Nationals signed Tex it would not have made them contenders for a title. The bottom line is teams with lower pay rolls have been beating on the Yanks for years now, and the type of free agents they are signing now aren't necessarily different than the ones they signed 5 years ago.

Kn1cks20
12-24-2008, 12:48 PM
you guys are really taking this out of proportion....they didnt spend 423 MIL in one day!!!
they had 88 MIL coming of the books and they signed back 60 Mil of it a year.

CAIN=FUTURE
12-24-2008, 12:48 PM
YES! They are like cancer and aids rolled up into one.

Kn1cks20
12-24-2008, 12:50 PM
and this doesnt mean that we win the championship, it just boosts our offense that just lost Giambi & Abreu...thats like 50 HR and 200 RBI from last year.

yanksforlife
12-24-2008, 12:54 PM
and this doesnt mean that we win the championship, it just boosts our offense that just lost Giambi & Abreu...thats like 50 HR and 200 RBI from last year.

screw giambi i'm glad he's off our hands. he sucks. his roids lost their juice

but i'm mad about abreu. he's one of the few clutch hitters the yanks had

Apophis
12-24-2008, 12:58 PM
LOL... At least we are the most talked about team.. Good and bad... ROFL

yanksforlife
12-24-2008, 01:03 PM
LOL... At least we are the most talked about team.. Good and bad... ROFL

yeah they like to think their getting to us. why dont they just write steinbrenner and then spend the rest of their life waiting for a response letter... then they'll finally realize how worthless their opinions are to us

inferiority complexes are amazing heh

YanksNats1987
12-24-2008, 01:03 PM
No they aren't. The amount of revenue they bring in for baseball is amazing. The money that is made when they're at home in tickets and merchandise. The money they generate when they are on the road. Visiting teams sell Yankee gear in their stores when the team visits b/c they know it will sell.

Yankee fans are all over the country because of people moving, heritage, and yes even the bandwagon ones. But they also travel well. I went to go see the Yanks play in Houston this year for example, and I met a lot of New Yorkers who also decided to make the trip.

People can debate signings all they want, but if a team makes the money and is allowed to spend it, then who can fault the team? Because ultimately it is the players decision to choose their own destination, whether they choose the team who offered the most or not.

SJ5382
12-24-2008, 01:05 PM
They buy everyone and still lose...what's so bad about that?

yanksforlife
12-24-2008, 01:06 PM
They buy everyone and still lose...what's so bad about that?

yous mets fans have no room to talk

NYMetros
12-24-2008, 01:08 PM
It's kind of annoying what they do, but baseball wouldn't be the same without them. IMO they are good for baseball.

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 01:11 PM
please stop with these Yankees threads

A team with a $40M payroll went to the World Series last year while a team with a $210M payroll finished in 3rd place. I don't know what more you guys want.

bronxbombers427
12-24-2008, 01:17 PM
YES! They are like cancer and aids rolled up into one.

If the Giants didnt suck ***** and had money to spend like the Yankees, would you be saying tht?

mgkibbles
12-24-2008, 01:18 PM
If they would win then yes but right now all this spending is just annoying.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Take the Yankees out of the MLB and lets see the MLB survive. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Yankees are a draw. MLB needs the Yankees

Sport
12-24-2008, 01:31 PM
I actually know some people, elderly and young, who dont watch the game anymore cuz of things like this.

It is kind of rdiculous in a way, but it is what it is.

It only makes me laugh cuz buying teams like the Yankees have done, really isnt all that successful.

astrosmaniac
12-24-2008, 01:39 PM
No they aren't. The amount of revenue they bring in for baseball is amazing. The money that is made when they're at home in tickets and merchandise. The money they generate when they are on the road. Visiting teams sell Yankee gear in their stores when the team visits b/c they know it will sell.

Yankee fans are all over the country because of people moving, heritage, and yes even the bandwagon ones. But they also travel well. I went to go see the Yanks play in Houston this year for example, and I met a lot of New Yorkers who also decided to make the trip.

People can debate signings all they want, but if a team makes the money and is allowed to spend it, then who can fault the team? Because ultimately it is the players decision to choose their own destination, whether they choose the team who offered the most or not.

im one person who says, if they are allowed to spend it i wont fault them for spending it, but i dont think that any team should be allowed to spend that much. i dont want any yankee fans to tell me its the owners fault for being cheap. there are several teams that spend upwards of 100 million. that is not being cheap. not every owner can afford a 200 million dollar payroll. im an astros fan, so its not like my team is cheap like the marlins or pirates, but its still unfair to let them outspend everyone else. put a salary cap. im not saying like 80 million dollars, but i mean a cap at like 125-130 million dollars. most teams wont even come that close. it allows for teams to had out large contracts, but not to every player on the market

Drawantz
12-24-2008, 01:40 PM
please stop with these Yankees threads

A team with a $40M payroll went to the World Series last year while a team with a $210M payroll finished in 3rd place. I don't know what more you guys want.

(Payrolls courtesy of ESPN.com)
5 out of the ten teams with the highest 2008 opening day payrolls made the playoffs (50%)
2 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 11-20 made the playoffs (20%)
1 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 21-30 made the playoffs (10%)

What more do I want? I would like it if the top 33% of the league in terms of payroll didn't represent 62.5% of the playoff teams.

REGular
12-24-2008, 01:41 PM
its still unfair to let them outspend everyone else.

It's only unfair if that spending gives them championships. It really hasn't had all that much success lately.

kyubi256
12-24-2008, 01:41 PM
baseball is a business...

The Yankees are amazing for baseball

Drawantz
12-24-2008, 01:42 PM
Take the Yankees out of the MLB and lets see the MLB survive. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Yankees are a draw. MLB needs the Yankees

the NFL has a salary cap, and I'm willing to bet the NFL could survive without any one team. I wonder why???

FEEHAR
12-24-2008, 01:42 PM
They have no farm system, nor can they develop the garbage they have in the farm system. Fact of the matter is, you need team unity to win a championship and you cannot buy that...

Take the redsox for example, youkalis, pedroia, ellsbury, lester, bucholz are all brought up from the farm system. These guys are hard working guys that play together as one to be successful.

You can't buy that....

tko248
12-24-2008, 01:42 PM
you boston fans are annoying, the yankees are putting up a team worth 30 million less than the one they had on the field last year. They are not spending more, they are spending less and getting better.

REGular
12-24-2008, 01:48 PM
(Payrolls courtesy of ESPN.com)
5 out of the ten teams with the highest 2008 opening day payrolls made the playoffs (50%)
2 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 11-20 made the playoffs (20%)
1 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 21-30 made the playoffs (10%)

What more do I want? I would like it if the top 33% of the league in terms of payroll didn't represent 62.5% of the playoff teams.

2007 (Payrolls courtesy of ESPN.com)
4 out of the ten teams with the highest 2007 opening day payrolls made the playoffs (40%)
1 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 11-20 made the playoffs (10%)
3 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 21-30 made the playoffs (30%)

Personally if just under half of the playoff teams came out of the bottom 3rd in payroll in 2007 . . . that seems to me like payroll doesn't make all that much of a difference.

Using your standards dude.

XxYaNk3eS84xX
12-24-2008, 01:51 PM
i love all these yankee hater threads. i can count maybe 10 on the front page of the mlb forum. i love it. im sure that 26.9 million dollars in taxes for the teams is so bad for baseball.

astrosmaniac
12-24-2008, 01:52 PM
2007 (Payrolls courtesy of ESPN.com)
4 out of the ten teams with the highest 2007 opening day payrolls made the playoffs (40%)
1 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 11-20 made the playoffs (10%)
3 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 21-30 made the playoffs (30%)

Personally if just under half of the playoff teams came out of the bottom 3rd in payroll in 2007 . . . that seems to me like payroll doesn't make all that much of a difference.

Using your standards dude.

2007 was 2 years ago, not last year. last year was 2008

XxYaNk3eS84xX
12-24-2008, 01:52 PM
Take the Yankees out of the MLB and lets see the MLB survive. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Yankees are a draw. MLB needs the Yankees

.

earias
12-24-2008, 01:55 PM
seriously as a sox fan i hate the yankees. they are the cause of many of our ills and they have no integrity. Having said that it is time to end this debate. its old. And honestly, the yankees are good for baseball... so lets stop

REGular
12-24-2008, 01:55 PM
2007 was 2 years ago, not last year. last year was 2008

and 2009 is next year . . .

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 01:56 PM
Take the Yankees out of the MLB and lets see the MLB survive. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Yankees are a draw. MLB needs the Yankees

Id like to add on to this since it makes me sound like a pompous ***. The MLB wouldnt be able to survive without not only the Yankees, but the Red Sox, the Mets, the Phillies, the Dodgers, f and a few others. Are they bad for baseball? Absolutely not.

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:01 PM
Id like to add on to this since it makes me sound like a pompous ***. The MLB wouldnt be able to survive without not only the Yankees, but the Red Sox, the Mets, the Phillies, the Dodgers, f and a few others. Are they bad for baseball? Absolutely not.

And if you take out the Lakers, Celtics, etc. out of the NBA it wouldn't be able to survive . . .

If you take the Giants, Patriots, Cowboys, etc. out of the NFL it wouldn't be able to survive . . .

Yet these sports have salary caps . . .

Again, I am not in support of the salary cap for baseball I just fail to see any sense of logic in your comments??

Nobody is saying take the Yankees out of NY so that they have less money to spend. People are arguing for a salary cap so that they don't get more money to spend than other teams.

Your whole premise is ridiculous b/c the NFL has clearly past MLB in all sorts of revenue benchmarks yet they institute a salary cap and the NY teams still bring in large amounts of revenue b/c of where they play, yet the NFL doesn't rely solely on the NY teams to "survive".
And if you're going to play it out to all large-market teams in any league, then of course if all you had left were the Pittsburghs, Houstons, Portlands, Kansas Cities, then any league would fail. Nothing special about baseball and the Yanks.

astrosmaniac
12-24-2008, 02:02 PM
and 2009 is next year . . .

last year (the numbers he posted) better represent it than 2 years ago does

McJoe
12-24-2008, 02:04 PM
the yankees are great for the MLB revenue wise but they are bad for the MLB based on these contracts they are throwing at these guys...

there needs to be some sort of spending cap which this offseason shows...theyve spent over 420 million this offseason

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:04 PM
last year (the numbers he posted) better represent it than 2 years ago does

only b/c those results represent what he's trying to prove.

But if you did an analysis of the last 5 years and it turns out that it's more often like 2007 than 2008, than the suggestion that "the larger the payroll = better odds at making the playoffs" would be wrong.
Am I missing something?

metfan4life775
12-24-2008, 02:05 PM
^^^ do the yankees hurt major league baseball, and are the Yankees the reason more and more fans are turning over to football? Everyone knows that its much easier to win in the NFL than the MLB because of the salary cap. On sportscenter today, Buster Olney said that the Tex signing could lead into a potential strike in a couple of years with the current economy. I also found another article by Phil Sheridan who talks about how the Yankees are bad for baseball. Do you agree with this?

So you are going to tell me that MLB players are going to go on strike because they are getting paid to much. WOW now i have seen everything

Raidaz4Life
12-24-2008, 02:06 PM
I really could care less... let the yankees be the yankees

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:06 PM
One argument I can understand, and it may be in line with the poster above, is that with the Yankees bidding the contracts so large, any free agent that comes up will only have 2 or 3 teams they are willing to play for b/c only they can offer them contracts.

Eventually that would wittle down teh competition such that the best players play for a select few teams and scraps play everywhere else.

However, we haven't really seen that happen yet so I don't really understand if these particular signings will change anything specific into that direction.

NASCAR Diva#3
12-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Heck yeah.

astrosmaniac
12-24-2008, 02:07 PM
only b/c those results represent what he's trying to prove.

But if you did an analysis of the last 5 years and it turns out that it's more often like 2007 than 2008, than the suggestion that "the larger the payroll = better odds at making the playoffs" would be wrong.
Am I missing something?

yea but thats like saying cliff lee wont be a good pitcher next year. 2 years ago he was in the minors with a 6+ era. before last year, he didnt do anything special, but does that mean he will suck this upcoming year? no

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 02:08 PM
What you guys dont understand is, if its not the Yankees, its someone else. Its not like the Yankees are signing just for the sake of signing. They are signing players that help them fill holes

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:09 PM
What you guys dont understand is, if its not the Yankees, its someone else. Its not like the Yankees are signing just for the sake of signing. They are signing players that help them fill holes

To a degree, yes.

If the Nationals had signed Tex to an even greater salary we wouldn't even be having a conversation about salary caps.

The problem is though that the Yankees can sign Tex + CC + Burnett and still can consider dropping more money.

astrosmaniac
12-24-2008, 02:10 PM
What you guys dont understand is, if its not the Yankees, its someone else. Its not like the Yankees are signing just for the sake of signing. They are signing players that help them fill holes

like ive said, as long as they are allowed too, i have no problem with it. but what im saying is, no one should be allowed to spend this much

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:11 PM
yea but thats like saying cliff lee wont be a good pitcher next year. 2 years ago he was in the minors with a 6+ era. before last year, he didnt do anything special, but does that mean he will suck this upcoming year? no

No, it's like saying - last year 5 teams in the top third of the payroll scale made the playoffs, so this year the same thing will happen, even though in previous years it did not happen . . .

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 02:11 PM
To a degree, yes.

If the Nationals had signed Tex to an even greater salary we wouldn't even be having a conversation about salary caps.

The problem is though that the Yankees can sign Tex + CC + Burnett and still can consider dropping more money.

And the Yankees have money coming off the books which NEEDS to be replaced by players. Should we just go after scrubs who will not be as good, just to make it "fair?"

If your team spent the money the Yankees do, would you want the best, or someone in the middle?

bronxbombers427
12-24-2008, 02:13 PM
The rating for the MLB playoffs were down this year..for many reason but i think it has alot to do wit the Yankees not being in it...tht being said, imagine the rating without the Yankees..bottom line Yankees are good for baseball and to all haters STFU!

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 02:16 PM
The rating for the MLB playoffs were down this year..for many reason but i think it has alot to do wit the Yankees not being in it...tht being said, imagine the rating without the Yankees..bottom line Yankees are good for baseball and to all haters STFU!

The only series that was well in ratings was the ALCS. And that was I think game 6 and 7.

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:18 PM
And the Yankees have money coming off the books which NEEDS to be replaced by players. Should we just go after scrubs who will not be as good, just to make it "fair?"

If your team spent the money the Yankees do, would you want the best, or someone in the middle?

That's all nice and good, but firstly the point I was raising with you was regarding your notion that the MLB would fail without the Yankees spending hundreds of millions more than their competitors.

Also, this idea of taking money off the books and reloading with stars is irrelevant if the alternative is a salary cap . . .

Weapon M
12-24-2008, 02:19 PM
This is ridiculous..

The YANKS are NOT bad for baseball at all. Look, if the YANKS WON every championship since 96' to 2008, then you could say they are tipping the balance of power in baseball in their favor and making a joke out of the major leagues-- They are not. They havent won since 2000. k? There have been a VERY diverse group of champions in baseball through out this decade. The only team to win more then once was the Red Sox. Period!!

So, there are people that have this envy, and jealousy of the Yanks cause they seem to swoop in and take the best Free Agents and so forth on the Market every now and then, but it hasn't won them anything. If anyone should be laughing it's baseball at the Yanks right now, cause their method of making a champion has not gotten them anything.

Their most recent group of championships came for the most part from home grown players btw (Jeter, Mariano, Pettite, Posada, etc. They were known as a team that didn't have BIG NAMES and SUPER STARS on their lineups. And if I'm not mistaken of the four championships they didnt have the biggest payroll in two of them.

This actually is the beauty of baseball, where you have different teams going about making winners in different ways. Some teams are building from the farm system. Some are building through trades and or depending on their coach to build them a winning club. Some have fast base stealing teams, some are a group of bashers who club their way to wins, or pitching staff and defensive oriented ball clubs. The Yanks are one of those teams who for the most part use free agent market and their bank account to build themselves a team.

So far the small market clubs have gotten their hold of more and more championships.

Oh and BTW, the business the Yankees make in New York City, and internationally, THEY BETTER SPEND IT ON MAKING A WINNING BALL CLUB!!!! It's much better then them pocketing the money!!!!! Look at the Dodgers!! They are a big market club and they didn't want to spend their money. There are some teams that have owners that aren't spending it and pocketing it!!

So lets drop this nonsense!!!!
:clap:

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 02:26 PM
(Payrolls courtesy of ESPN.com)
5 out of the ten teams with the highest 2008 opening day payrolls made the playoffs (50%)
2 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 11-20 made the playoffs (20%)
1 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 21-30 made the playoffs (10%)

What more do I want? I would like it if the top 33% of the league in terms of payroll didn't represent 62.5% of the playoff teams.

Sorry buddy thats just how it works. What happened to the other 5 teams with the highest payrolls? They didn't make the playoffs.

The big market you are in the more money you have. Them more money you have the more you can spend on good players. The more good players you have the more you win. Simple stuff.

Does having a high payroll mean you'll make the playoffs? No. It that was true that stat would be 8 out of the 10 team with the highest payroll make the playoffs.

OnWisconsin2007
12-24-2008, 02:29 PM
With the players union pressuring FA's to take the largest contracts they can, and only a few teams being able to pony up that kind of cash...doesn't it make sense to anybody else that top level FA's can only go to a handful of teams? Literally, MLB is set up so a few teams can get the best players, and isn't it funny how those are the teams that bring in the most revenue. It's kind of like a set up. It's bad for baseball when a team can spend $423 million, maybe even up to 600 MILLION in one offseason and smaller market teams have no chance whatsoever.

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:29 PM
The big market you are in the more money you have. Them more money you have the more you can spend on good players. The more good players you have the more you win. Simple stuff.

Except that you're logic does not deny the need for a salary cap.

The big market you are in will still have more money.

The only difference would be all teams would be spending the same amount of money on good players . . .

. . . I don't know, maybe it would be kind of like every other sport . . .

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:31 PM
doesn't it make sense to anybody else that top level FA's can only go to a handful of teams? Literally, MLB is set up so a few teams can get the best players, and isn't it funny how those are the teams that bring in the most revenue . . . It's bad for baseball when a team can spend $423 million, maybe even up to 600 MILLION in one offseason and smaller market teams have no chance whatsoever.

Only bad for baseball if those handful of teams are the only ones winning championships . . .

TallicaFan87
12-24-2008, 02:33 PM
They have no farm system, nor can they develop the garbage they have in the farm system. Fact of the matter is, you need team unity to win a championship and you cannot buy that...

Take the redsox for example, youkalis, pedroia, ellsbury, lester, bucholz are all brought up from the farm system. These guys are hard working guys that play together as one to be successful.

You can't buy that....

Wang, Cano, Jeter, Posada, Mariano, Hughes, etc... have all been brought up from the minors at some point.

I don't understand all the stuff I've heard about the Red Sox farm guys coming up and being this "brotherhood" yet the Yankees have had the same amount of guys come up and there is no chemistry at all. A couple of these guys have been together for more than a decade now. I'm sure the Yankees chemistry is fine. Lack of chemistry sure isn't why they haven't won the WS in so many years.

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 02:35 PM
Except that you're logic does not deny the need for a salary cap.

The big market you are in will still have more money.

The only difference would be all teams would be spending the same amount of money on good players . . .

. . . I don't know, maybe it would be kind of like every other sport . . .

A team that has more fans and makes more money than other teams, make more money to get the better players.

If a team doesn't have a lot of fans or doesn't sell their product well will not have the money to spend on good players.

Its a fair system. I hate the Yankees but in no why what they do is wrong.

Its bad and good for baseball at the same time. Its bad becuase they can just get whoever they want. But its good for baseball becuase of results like last year. A $40M payroll beating out a $210M payroll was great for baseball.

Cursed Rangers
12-24-2008, 02:35 PM
Assuming a labor strike occurs in 2011, it will be a direct reflection of the Yankees. Assuming this strike does take place, it is going to be nasty.

quiksilver2491
12-24-2008, 02:42 PM
Can we with stop with these stupid Yankee threads, just because they went out and got the 3 top Free Agents doesn't guarantee any more success then they had in previous years, they still have to go out there and perfom. Let them do what they do, they still have a 1/32 chance at a WS this year just like every other team in baseball.

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:44 PM
Its a fair system. I hate the Yankees but in no why what they do is wrong.

K, I get you better now, thanks.

You're saying having no salary cap is actually more fair than in other sports, b/c each team gets to spend what they earn, and if teams want to make more money than they should put out a better product.

But what about teams in places like Portland or Oklahoma City (using NBA as an example) they could never reasonably accumulate the type of revenue that a team from NY or LA will earn in any given season, no matter how good the product in the smaller town is and how poor the big city team is doing.

Is the answer simply that those cities shouldn't field teams and only Chicago, NY, LA etc. should?

If you want to include other cities maybe it's fair that they play on an even playing field . . . like every other sport.

Weapon M
12-24-2008, 02:45 PM
Sorry buddy thats just how it works. What happened to the other 5 teams with the highest payrolls? They didn't make the playoffs.

The big market you are in the more money you have. Them more money you have the more you can spend on good players. The more good players you have the more you win. Simple stuff.

Does having a high payroll mean you'll make the playoffs? No. It that was true that stat would be 8 out of the 10 team with the highest payroll make the playoffs.


from what year to what year?
Lets just look at the list of champions from 2001 to now..... Pure simple facts....

2008 Philadelphia Phillies (upper mid) Tampa Bay Rays (small Market)
2007 Boston Red Sox Colorado Rockies (small Market)
2006 Saint Louis Cardinals (upper mid) Detroit Tigers (mid market)
2005 Chicago White Sox Houston Astros <both big market
2004 Boston Red Sox Saint Louis Cardinals <both big market
2003 Florida Marlins (small market) New York Yankees
2002 Anaheim Angels San Francisco Giants


That's not counting who made it to the playoffs as well. This is just world series matchups.

1) This isn't just in baseball, if you CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY PLAYERS YOU WONT WIN. That's not rocket science!! But the fact is.. In what other sport do you get middle or small market clubs that are competitive enough to make it to such a small playoff? (4 teams from each league make it. Only 3 rounds.)

2) The Yankees have not been in ANY of those big dances, and didn't make it past the first round in many of those years despite the highest payroll.

3) You can't just buy rings. The Yanks have tried their best and they can't. This takes actually alot of scouting and farm developement. This is good for baseball.

4) The Yanks have a lot of farm grown players too btw. (SS Jeter, C Posada, 2b Cano, Center Cabrera, SP Chamberlane, SP Pettite, Closer Rivera, Sp Hughes, and various guys in their bullpen, or the bench.

5) Spending money on these players are a gamble that the Yanks have failed over and over again.

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:45 PM
Can we with stop with these stupid Yankee threads, just because they went out and got the 3 top Free Agents doesn't guarantee any more success then they had in previous years, they still have to go out there and perfom. Let them do what they do, they still have a 1/32 chance at a WS this year just like every other team in baseball.

Just stop reading them dude, personally I am not retreading the same debate over and over.

and I made the same error earlier it's actually 1/30 chance.

torontosports10
12-24-2008, 02:46 PM
1. I find it funny a Red Sox fan started the thread since they are right up there with the Yanks in buying what they want.

2. If there is no salary cap in the future for baseball then the sport is going to be in big trouble. Teams are buying the top free agents and signing top import rookies for the most money and drafting some top talent cause they are asking for 5 mill bonus and only those big money teams will pay it.

3. Baseball has been my favorite sport for the past 3 years it was always hockey. Now its starting to go back to hockey.

REGular
12-24-2008, 02:53 PM
3. Baseball has been my favorite sport for the past 3 years it was always hockey. Now its starting to go back to hockey.

Does that have more to do with the salary cap in baseball or the performance of the Blue Jays vs. the Maple Leafs?

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 03:14 PM
K, I get you better now, thanks.

You're saying having no salary cap is actually more fair than in other sports, b/c each team gets to spend what they earn, and if teams want to make more money than they should put out a better product.

But what about teams in places like Portland or Oklahoma City (using NBA as an example) they could never reasonably accumulate the type of revenue that a team from NY or LA will earn in any given season, no matter how good the product in the smaller town is and how poor the big city team is doing.

Is the answer simply that those cities shouldn't field teams and only Chicago, NY, LA etc. should?

If you want to include other cities maybe it's fair that they play on an even playing field . . . like every other sport.

If the area around them doesn't support them well and they can't but together good enough teams then they should move.

But they don't move becuase they put together good teams without having to pay a lot of money in players salaries and taxes. Once they get to be consistently good they will make more money and people will go to more games, they will get more and better sponsors, get better network deals and people will watch them more.

misterd
12-24-2008, 03:15 PM
While it is true that being able to get good players helps you win, it is also true that being able to win helps get good players. The Yanks used to have trouble drawing free agents until the Showalter/Torre era. Their championship teams were built mostly on trades and internal development. Their success made the team richer AND more attractive. Note how much the Angels payroll has grown since they started winning, too.

I don't often like the way the Yankees do business, and disagree with many of the moves they make. I would much prefer to keep the emphasis on internal development, but I do appreciate the fact that the owners are commited to putting the best team on the field. Simple geography gives them an advantage, but that same advantage is had by the Mets, Cubs, White Sox, Dodgers and Angels, yet how often have they won World Series? Are the Yanks to blame for them, too? The Yankees have cultivated their brand for decades and benefit from it - and so do their competitors given the full stadiums I see almost every time the Yanks come to town.

Honestly,I look at some teams and wonder why anyone would want to play for them. The Marlins have twice won the world series, and twice had a post-series fire sale. Is Miami now a small market?

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 03:20 PM
from what year to what year?
Lets just look at the list of champions from 2001 to now..... Pure simple facts....

2008 Philadelphia Phillies (upper mid) Tampa Bay Rays (small Market)
2007 Boston Red Sox Colorado Rockies (small Market)
2006 Saint Louis Cardinals (upper mid) Detroit Tigers (mid market)
2005 Chicago White Sox Houston Astros <both big market
2004 Boston Red Sox Saint Louis Cardinals <both big market
2003 Florida Marlins (small market) New York Yankees
2002 Anaheim Angels San Francisco Giants


That's not counting who made it to the playoffs as well. This is just world series matchups.

1) This isn't just in baseball, if you CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY PLAYERS YOU WONT WIN. That's not rocket science!! But the fact is.. In what other sport do you get middle or small market clubs that are competitive enough to make it to such a small playoff? (4 teams from each league make it. Only 3 rounds.)

2) The Yankees have not been in ANY of those big dances, and didn't make it past the first round in many of those years despite the highest payroll.

3) You can't just buy rings. The Yanks have tried their best and they can't. This takes actually alot of scouting and farm developement. This is good for baseball.

4) The Yanks have a lot of farm grown players too btw. (SS Jeter, C Posada, 2b Cano, Center Cabrera, SP Chamberlane, SP Pettite, Closer Rivera, Sp Hughes, and various guys in their bullpen, or the bench.

5) Spending money on these players are a gamble that the Yanks have failed over and over again.

Thank you. If money meant you'd always have a good baseball team you would always see upper market teams vs. upper market teams. But that's not that's case.

Newport05
12-24-2008, 03:31 PM
yankees will still suck

JobaTheHeat62
12-24-2008, 03:36 PM
if there was no yankees baseball would be so boring. they make it interesting by doin things like this year.

Driven
12-24-2008, 03:37 PM
No,they aren't bad. What's bad for baseball are World Series like Tampa Bay vs. Philadelphia

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 03:37 PM
yankees will still suck

still?

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 03:38 PM
No,they aren't bad. What's bad for baseball are World Series like Tampa Bay vs. Philadelphia

You're telling me the Rays making it to the World Series was bad for baseball?

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 03:42 PM
You're telling me the Rays making it to the World Series was bad for baseball?

Its only bad because the ratings were awful. Not to mention they were tough to watch for anyone other than Philly and Rays fans

The Ooh Child
12-24-2008, 03:45 PM
I agree with everyone else. Their free agency spending is always annoying, but ultimately I really don't care because they are probably going to underachieve again.

johnlh
12-24-2008, 03:46 PM
well I dunno about financially what the effects are and how that will effect baseball long-term, but competitively as a fan (of the Florida Marlins, no less) I love these acquisitions.

The bottom line, to me, is that they don't win championships this way yet they continue to throw the money around and pretend like they are now a championship team.

To me it's very similar to the Mets the last couple of years. You can spend all the money you want but you still have to field a solid all-around team out there.

Assuming CC's arm doesn't fall off their rotation is extremely suspect, in my opinion. Both Wang and AJ have spent serious time on the DL in recent years. And after that they got (Hughes & Kennedy?) a couple of unproven prospects who are supposed to compete at this extremely high level of expectations and performance.

I think they will have a good time beating down the poorer teams in the league (most notably the Blue Jays & the Orioles) but will still have to work hard on the field to compete with the Red Sox & the Rays.

To conclude - I don't think it hurts baseball because every team has to create success within their own means. Had the Nationals signed Tex it would not have made them contenders for a title. The bottom line is teams with lower pay rolls have been beating on the Yanks for years now, and the type of free agents they are signing now aren't necessarily different than the ones they signed 5 years ago.

I think over the long run that a team who has a payroll of up to 5 times that of other teams will be in the running year after year. Clearly they will sign the best players. That does not "guarantee" a world championship as we all know but it sure gives you a leg up. Statistics show that teams with the highest payrolls are in the playoffs significantly more than the others. On occasion we have a team like Tampa Bay sneak in there but it is a rare occasion. A number of owners and GMs have commented and clearly they do not like it as it makes other rich teams drive up salaries even more. We need a CAP like in the NFL but the Players Union would fight that to the death. Is any one player woth 27 mil a year such as ARod? I think not as he has never been on a team who won a championship. As the poster notes it take a team to succeed and having the highest paid players does not always make a "team". Still it gives them a definite leg up. If I were going to put my money on who will be in the world series it would be the Yankees and I do not like them. I am a Cub fan and we rarely win anything. I was hoping Mark Cuban would buy the Cubs as he has the big bucks and would likely increase payroll. Does not look like that will happen.

JohnnyBLUE
12-24-2008, 03:50 PM
Salary cap is a necessity!! The NBA is a better league because of so. I feel football is the same way in which a salary cap helps the competitiveness of the sport as well. The way MLB can cure this problem is by a more aggressive revenue sharing in which teams w/ less revenue can receive part of the "tax" that the Yanks and Tigers have to pay. From what I know, MLB takes the "tax" and uses that for MLB purposes and does not disperse generously to needed teams.

I don't blame the Yankees. Good for them for manipulating a flawed system that we call MLB. Until the league changes its policies, it is their right to do so.

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 03:52 PM
Its only bad because the ratings were awful. Not to mention they were tough to watch for anyone other than Philly and Rays fans

I thought it was a great series. The rain delay kind of sucked, but besides that is was great. Couldn't give two ***** about the TV ratings.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 03:54 PM
I thought it was a great series. The rain delay kind of sucked, but besides that is was great. Couldn't give two ***** about the TV ratings.

MLB cares.

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:03 PM
The Yankees treat this as a business, cause it is! They re-invest in their business and succeede(sp?) financialy and on the field due to wisely re-investing in their product. This team had a run from 1995-last year of making the playoffs (one could argue 1994's strike shortened season would have seen them there as well), winning 6 pennants and 4 WS rings. That is a remarkable feat and done by re-investing in the product you place on the field. With that success comes the usual endorsements and marketing bonanza that strengthens their bottom line further. All this is done and RE-INVESTED to keep the machine going. It's really not hard to understand and as an American company there is something called "Free Enterprise" that encourages this!

If anyone should be whining, it should be NY and other teams that have to pay "welfare" to millionares in the name of "Revenue Sharing". This is a crock of **** that was implemented to give a fair and more balanced playing field. I would like to see how this has worked out as the whole reason for this was so smaller market teams could compete. I would like to know what percentage of this is spent on improving their teams and what part is pocketed for their own gains? It seems to me the same teams that put a crap product on the field then are still doing it now and where is the money going that they are supposedly required to use on competing? I have heard of owners buying jets and so forth after getting their "welfare" while not improving their team one iota. It is something to think about as we are most certainly going to hear the whining all year.

As a Yankee fan though I am used to it by now...if we lose, we wasted money, if we win, we bought our ring. Talk about a double standard

zackleenate
12-24-2008, 04:06 PM
yankees rock and mets just sux

Super.
12-24-2008, 04:11 PM
for the MLB? the MLB would not survuve with the Yankees with the rediculous amout of revenue they get. just because you hate them, doesnt mean theri bad for baseball, maybe the rediculous spending is, but not the yankees in general, really, how can you call the 26 times champs bad for baseball...come on now

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:17 PM
MLB cares.

Damn straight the MLB cares about ratings!

Ratings = Money

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:17 PM
You're telling me the Rays making it to the World Series was bad for baseball?

Yeah. No one wants to watch the Devil Rays.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:20 PM
They buy everyone and still lose...what's so bad about that?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!


If the Yanks go out next season and win 110 games and take home the World Series i wouldnt be shocked. At all... Look at that roster. Its all stars, future hall of famers and big time players all throughout the locker room. But Over the past few years they've spent and spent and spent and spent and spent a little more and theres absolutely nothing to show for it except being the only team ever to blow a 3-0 lead.

NO. The Yankees are not bad for baseball. They actually make MLB a ton of loot. However i voted Yes because NY sucks big hairy donkey balls

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:31 PM
If the Yankees are bad for baseball, then so are the Red Sox and a handful of other teams. I'm not sure why we have to single out the Yanks.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 04:31 PM
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!


If the Yanks go out next season and win 110 games and take home the World Series i wouldnt be shocked. At all... Look at that roster. Its all stars, future hall of famers and big time players all throughout the locker room. But Over the past few years they've spent and spent and spent and spent and spent a little more and theres absolutely nothing to show for it exact being to only team ever to blow a 3-0 lead.

NO. The Yankees are not bad for baseball. They actually make MLB a ton of loot. However i voted No because NY sucks big hairy donkey balls

Hahaha this is exactly the thing I said yesterday.

"If the Yankees go out and win the WS, people would have said they should have done better by going 162-0 and 11-0 in the playoffs with the roster they have."

Yes, its true the Yankees have spent and spent on players like ...

Randy Johnson
Carl Pavano
Jason Giambi (end of his prime)
Kevin Brown
Jared Wright
Gary Sheffield
David Wellsn
Mike Mussina (worked out)
Alex Rodriguez (working out)
Jose Contreras
Roger Clemens (the second time around)
Hideki Matsui (working out)
Javier Vazquez
Tom Gordon
LaTroy Hawkins
Tony Womack
Kei Igawa

What pitcher in that group equals CC Sabathia?
The only one that equals Burnett is probably Mussina
What position player equals Teixiera? Giambi maybe?

The Yankees spent money on re-signing their important players like Jeter. Other than re signing their players, in the last 8-10 years, they have signed/traded for old and unproven players

dgreat5000
12-24-2008, 04:33 PM
and this doesnt mean that we win the championship, it just boosts our offense that just lost Giambi & Abreu...thats like 50 HR and 200 RBI from last year.


2209 Yamkees = 2008 Tigers

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 04:35 PM
2209 Yamkees = 2008 Tigers

:confused:

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:35 PM
Dont care who the yankees sign. I want results. Plenty of past years they've spent money been favored to go nuts and win EVERYTHING and fail and fail miserably. Im not saying this season they will fail. Lets just not go crowning World Series champs just yet.

whitesoxfan83
12-24-2008, 04:36 PM
everyone seems to forget the tigers were supposed to score 1000runs and win the series last year....howd that work out? ooo yea...they finished dead last (thats right even lower than the royals) in the central.

the yanks are not bad for baseball, the yanks are great for baseball. as a matter of fact all this salary cap talk and yankee hate has given me a new idea for a blog. at some point ill get around to writing it when i start posting here full time again.

but ill just say...the yankees are the best thing for baseball, they are infact the complete opposite of bad for baseball. the yankees drive baseball they always have, and most likely always will.

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:36 PM
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!


If the Yanks go out next season and win 110 games and take home the World Series i wouldnt be shocked. At all... Look at that roster. Its all stars, future hall of famers and big time players all throughout the locker room. But Over the past few years they've spent and spent and spent and spent and spent a little more and theres absolutely nothing to show for it except being the only team ever to blow a 3-0 lead.

NO. The Yankees are not bad for baseball. They actually make MLB a ton of loot. However i voted Yes because NY sucks big hairy donkey balls

Lol, since 1996, 6 pennants and 4 WS rings........plus double digit AL East Championships. Yep, they achieved nothing:eyebrow:

Btw, how much money did the Sox spend just to negotiate with Dice K???? Mr pot meet Mr tea kettle...

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:39 PM
Lol, since 1996, 6 pennants and 4 WS rings........plus double digit AL East Championships. Yep, they achieved nothing:eyebrow:

Btw, how much money did the Sox spend just to negotiate with Dice K???? Mr pot meet Mr tea kettle...
Go big or go home. World Series or bust. The Yanks haven't accomplished that in recent memory.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 04:40 PM
Dont care who the yankees sign. I want results. Plenty of past years they've spent money been favored to go nuts and win EVERYTHING and fail and fail miserably. Im not saying this season they will fail. Lets just not go crowning World Series champs just yet.

I never said they would win this year. Theres still >162 games to be played. If your going to say that the previous free agents/trades that the Yankees made are equilvalent to this years signings, your just being ignorant

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 04:41 PM
^^^ do the yankees hurt major league baseball, and are the Yankees the reason more and more fans are turning over to football? Everyone knows that its much easier to win in the NFL than the MLB because of the salary cap. On sportscenter today, Buster Olney said that the Tex signing could lead into a potential strike in a couple of years with the current economy. I also found another article by Phil Sheridan who talks about how the Yankees are bad for baseball. Do you agree with this?

I think everyone wants to see baseball be competitive. And the Yankees do just the opposite. They encourage players to play out of loyalty to money, and not out of loyalty to a team. And they keep teams from acquiring good free agents. It would be one thing if the Yankees set some kind of limits on what the worth of a player is, and didn't go beyond that number, but they don't.

Lower market teams can't even drastically overpay for a star player (like the Nationals tried to do) to try to bring in some revenue.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:41 PM
Lol, since 1996, 6 pennants and 4 WS rings........plus double digit AL East Championships. Yep, they achieved nothing

Btw, how much money did the Sox spend just to negotiate with Dice K???? Mr pot meet Mr tea kettle... .

This guy.. crawling waaaaaay waaaaay back to the nineties. Get with the times.

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:42 PM
Go big or go home. World Series or bust. The Yanks haven't accomplished that in recent memory.

They won the AL East 2 seasons ago...and if I remember correctly won their last world series against your team?

They have consistently been a factor every year since the mid nineties...only the Braves can can come close to that;)

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 04:42 PM
I never said they would win this year. Theres still >162 games to be played. If your going to say that the previous free agents/trades that the Yankees made are equilvalent to this years signings, your just being ignorant

The Yankees had what looked like a much better offseason at the time in 2004. Hindsight is 20/20, but that offseason the Yankees signed a ridiculous amount of star players.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:44 PM
I never said they would win this year. Theres still >162 games to be played. If your going to say that the previous free agents/trades that the Yankees made are equilvalent to this years signings, your just being ignorant

Im not saying that your saying anything....lol



You spent before and got no where. Always getting the top free agents. Im just wondering if the results will still be the same.

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:44 PM
This guy.. crawling waaaaaay waaaaay back to the nineties. Get with the times.

Quoted the wrong guy.

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:45 PM
They won the AL East 2 seasons ago...and if I remember correctly won their last world series against your team?

They have consistently been a factor every year since the mid nineties...only the Braves can can come close to that;)

Really? What's my team?

And the Yanks SHOULD be factors every year. That is a given. If they aren't, they failed big time.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 04:45 PM
The Yankees had what looked like a much better offseason at the time in 2004. Hindsight is 20/20, but that offseason the Yankees signed a ridiculous amount of star players.

Besides Arod everyone else was in question.

Sheffield - age
Matsui - never played a game in MLB
Vazquez - not great

Teixiera, Burnett, and Sabathia are still in their prime

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:45 PM
This guy.. crawling waaaaaay waaaaay back to the nineties. Get with the times.

I guess like most of the new wave of Sox fan you aren't bright enough to realise the run they had. You said they failed miserably and couldn't be further from the truth. In fact only an idiot would use the statement you wrote.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:45 PM
Quoted the wrong guy.

Noticed....and fixed

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:48 PM
I guess like most of the new wave of Sox fan you aren't bright enough to realise the run they had. You said they failed miserably and couldn't be further from the truth. In fact only an idiot would use the statement you wrote.

Ive heard in Yankee land its World Series or failure. Now you wanna act like what youve done is an accomplishment. Thats cool not like i care. new wave of sox fan??? I hate when people make statements like this. ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT ME is that my PSD name is Nighthawk. THATS IT. You dont know how long ive supported the Sox. So end it. People make comments like this all the time. Calling people band wagoners and **** like they know that person and how big of a fan they are. its quite sad.

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:50 PM
Ive heard in Yankee land its World Series or failure. Now you wanna act like what youve done is an accomplishment. Thats cool not like i care. new wave of sox fan??? I hate when people make statements like this. ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT ME is that my PSD name is Nighthawk. THATS IT. You dont know how long ive supported the Sox. So end it. People make comments like this all the time. Calling people band wagoners and **** like they know that person and how big of a fan they are. its quite sad.
Apparently I'm a fan of a team in the NL, as well. I must have said one good thing about them. I guess saying something positive about a team means that you like them, as if that matters. Or maybe I said that a team was good or something. Only positive things can be said about teams you like,

J4KOP99
12-24-2008, 04:52 PM
How about we ask..

Are the Pittsburgh Pirates bad for baseball?
or
Are the Kansas City Royals bad for baseball?


At least the Yankees are trying to win.

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:54 PM
Ive heard in Yankee land its World Series or failure. Now you wanna act like what youve done is an accomplishment. Thats cool not like i care. new wave of sox fan??? I hate when people make statements like this. ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT ME is that my PSD name is Nighthawk. THATS IT. You dont know how long ive supported the Sox. So end it. People make comments like this all the time. Calling people band wagoners and **** like they know that person and how big of a fan they are. its quite sad.

lol, so you became a fan in 2004...it's pretty obvious;)

I really don't want to continue ill will on XMas eve...Merry Xmas!:cool:

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:54 PM
How about we ask..

Are the Pittsburgh Pirates bad for baseball?
or
Are the Kansas City Royals bad for baseball?


At least the Yankees are trying to win.

Very Valid point

Why are the pirates and Royals even in the MLB. Any good players they gets or develop leave for a winner or cash or get traded. Like WTF.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 04:56 PM
lol, so you became a fan in 2004...it's pretty obvious;)

I really don't want to continue ill will on XMas eve...Merry Xmas!:cool:

Lol man. ill just laugh at that. Merry X-mas

Wyld1
12-24-2008, 04:57 PM
Really? What's my team?

And the Yanks SHOULD be factors every year. That is a given. If they aren't, they failed big time.

Doh! That's the 'Cuse Orangeman mascot not Mr Met:o My bad!

I am a 'cuse fan as well..glad to see Devo wasn't suspended for the year.. merry Xmas!

Driven
12-24-2008, 04:58 PM
Doh! That's the 'Cuse Orangeman mascot not Mr Met:o My bad!

I am a 'cuse fan as well..glad to see Devo wasn't suspended for the year.. merry Xmas!
Haha, k. :)

manny49
12-24-2008, 05:08 PM
I dont think the yankees are bad for baseball at all.But i do think if your a big name and you want success dont go to new york just ask giambi,abreu,johnson and even a rod cause some players cant handle pressure now thats a curse that deserves a name.

johnnylee722
12-24-2008, 05:18 PM
MLB cares.

as a fan I enjoyed it.

Sorry other people didn't, but if you liked baseball it was a fun series to watch.

hotpotato1092
12-24-2008, 05:22 PM
If a team that had smart management spent 200 million they'd win 120 games. If the Rays or Phillies added CC, AJ, and Tex they'd win at least 120. It does my heart good to see Hank ruin George's team. Anyway, yes they are bad for baseball. Explain to me how it's fair that one team spends 10 times as much as another?

Ewagner
12-24-2008, 05:24 PM
The are bad for baseball. CC only signed with them because the union made him. that's why in three years he can opt out and go to the west coast like he wants. it was the same reason that the a-rod going to the sox from texas was rejected. you can't take discounts because it screws up players getting bigger contracts. the yankkes drive up the prices of players so only a few teams can sign the top players. in my opinion if there was a salary cap in baseball the yankees would be the knicks

Driven
12-24-2008, 05:25 PM
If a team that had smart management spent 200 million they'd win 120 games. If the Rays or Phillies added CC, AJ, and Tex they'd win at least 120. It does my heart good to see Hank ruin George's team. Anyway, yes they are bad for baseball. Explain to me how it's fair that one team spends 10 times as much as another?
Because they generate more money than that.

MelkyNYY
12-24-2008, 05:28 PM
Sorry to say, but without the Yankees half of you wouldn't have cable outlets exclusively for your teams, and about 5 of you would not have teams to follow.

Cry somewhere else

MelkyNYY
12-24-2008, 05:29 PM
The are bad for baseball. CC only signed with them because the union made him. that's why in three years he can opt out and go to the west coast like he wants. it was the same reason that the a-rod going to the sox from texas was rejected. you can't take discounts because it screws up players getting bigger contracts. the yankkes drive up the prices of players so only a few teams can sign the top players. in my opinion if there was a salary cap in baseball the yankees would be the knicks

All i hear is crying.

CC Sabathia would have had an out clause for ANY TEAM HE WOULD HAVE SIGNED for. the Giants would have included the out clause and the Brewers as well. Twist **** the way you want it, it doesn't make it true.

And Boston tried to pull a fast one and have Arod backload his contract. Fail. He would have gotten paid the same amount, just later in the contract. The MLB blocked it. Good.

Ewagner
12-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Because they generate more money than that.

i agree with this that when they come to town that team sells out. the flawed theory of this is when they are not in town the team suffers. so for 3 to 6 games a year they sell out. they don't generate that much money. i had a friend explain it to me best. have fun paying $40 for bleacher seats. i'll go to baltimore and spend the same money and sit 20 rows up from the field.

Ewagner
12-24-2008, 05:40 PM
All i hear is crying.

CC Sabathia would have had an out clause for ANY TEAM HE WOULD HAVE SIGNED for. the Giants would have included the out clause and the Brewers as well. Twist **** the way you want it, it doesn't make it true.

And Boston tried to pull a fast one and have Arod backload his contract. Fail. He would have gotten paid the same amount, just later in the contract. The MLB blocked it. Good.

of course you have that documented about CC. the fact he came out and said i want to play on the west coast and signed with the yankees. the fact the yankee's have to over pay for players to come there should tell you something. honestly the signing tex is nice but is he going to play outfield because your outfield includes a journey man, a 35 year old lead off man, and a center fielder they are trying to trade. not to mention your catcher is 37. you need more than a 1B my friend to be relavent again.

MelkyNYY
12-24-2008, 05:48 PM
of course you have that documented about CC. the fact he came out and said i want to play on the west coast and signed with the yankees. the fact the yankee's have to over pay for players to come there should tell you something. honestly the signing tex is nice but is he going to play outfield because your outfield includes a journey man, a 35 year old lead off man, and a center fielder they are trying to trade. not to mention your catcher is 37. you need more than a 1B my friend to be relavent again.

You mean the LF that almost one a batting title? The CF who is second in the leage in Zone Rating? The RF that is 30 years old. Moron.

Arod at third? Jeter at Short? Cano at secon? Teix at first. Posada/Molina at C

Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Hughes

Top 5 bullpen last year?

Cry.

J4KOP99
12-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Very Valid point

Why are the pirates and Royals even in the MLB. Any good players they gets or develop leave for a winner or cash or get traded. Like WTF.

Exactly my point, why aren't these teams trying to win? You are going to have to spend SOME money if you want to have a chance. IDK what you are trying to say but it does not make any sense.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 06:02 PM
You mean the LF that almost one a batting title? The CF who is second in the leage in Zone Rating? The RF that is 30 years old. Moron.

Arod at third? Jeter at Short? Cano at secon? Teix at first. Posada/Molina at C

Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Hughes

Top 5 bullpen last year?

Cry.


you and the crying talk. Its easy to say what your saying. Im sure you;'ve had this attitude every year since 2000 when you;'ve been SIGNING away. well see if the results show up....duuude no-one is crying. Its christmas ****ing eve. Smiles all around

MelkyNYY
12-24-2008, 06:04 PM
you and the crying talk. Its easy to say what your saying. Im sure you;'ve had this attitude every year since 2000 when you;'ve been SIGNING away. well see if the results show up....duuude no-one is crying. Its christmas ****ing eve. Smiles all around

I've actually never met this much crying in my life. And I've been a Yankee fan for almost 15 years. This is pretty bad. So all we had to do is hurt the Red Sox feelings and the Mainstreak Media and NESPN just help the world cry. Sickening.

Nighthawk
12-24-2008, 06:13 PM
I've actually never met this much crying in my life. And I've been a Yankee fan for almost 15 years. This is pretty bad. So all we had to do is hurt the Red Sox feelings and the Mainstreak Media and NESPN just help the world cry. Sickening.

Crying??

I mean im not one who is calling for a salary cap or anything. MLB is perfectly fine in that aspect. I find it funny people ***** about the Yankees spending. You know they wish there team spent that money. Steinbrenner worked hard and became rich and can spend his money on whatever the **** he wants. Cant knock em. But all the yankee threads in the MLB forum is SICKENING. There all so active though. lol.

fightins89
12-24-2008, 06:14 PM
:cry::cry: Haters! :cry::cry:

royalswine
12-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I feel bad I have to preface every comment I make with I am a Red Sox fan. The Yankees should not be hated because they spend money on their teams. I am happy they have an owner who cares about the sport unlike others who will not spend their money (I am looking at you Marlins). If you want to hate on something, hate on the player that signs not the team that signs them. CC wanted so badly to be on the West Coast? Teix to play in his hometown? They had the option and turned it down because the yankees offered more. The yanks offer more money but no player is required to sign with them. The yankees operate within the rules completely and are not doing anyone a disservice.
The only gripe I have with this whole situation is this, the Yankees should not be asking New York for more tax exempted bonds. They quite simply have the money and do not need them. I have no problems with how they go after free agents but it seems to me that the tax payer is getting screwed here. I dont mean that as hate I just dont like to see the average joe get a little screwed over by any organization.

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 06:27 PM
Besides Arod everyone else was in question.

Sheffield - age
Matsui - never played a game in MLB
Vazquez - not great

Teixiera, Burnett, and Sabathia are still in their prime

Wow, now you're taking your homer tendencies to a whole new level.

You COMPLETELY left out Kevin Brown who was coming off an ERA+ of 169, with an ERA under 2.70 in three of the last four years. That's better than Sabathia's track record going into 2009.

Vazquez was coming off a 139 OPS+, having had an ERA under 3 the last three years in a row. That's much, much better than Burnett's track record going into 2009.

Sheffield was coming off four years in which he'd averaged an OPS+ over 160. And he had a pretty damn year in 2004 as well, putting up an OPS+ of 141. That's a better track record than Tex has going into 2009.

And we haven't even gotten to Matsui or A-Rod, who was the best player of them all.

Even the king of homers has to admit that that offseason it looked like the Yankees were acquiring a lot more talent than they did this year. Two elite pitchers as well as two of the top hitters in baseball, and to most elite hitter in Japan.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 06:32 PM
Wow, now you're taking your homer tendencies to a whole new level.

Vazquez was coming off a 139 OPS+, having had an ERA under 3 the last three years in a row. That's much, much better than Burnett's track record going into 2009.

Sheffield was coming off four years in which he'd averaged an OPS+ over 160. And he had a pretty damn year in 2004 as well, putting up an OPS+ of 141. That's a better track record than Tex has going into 2009.

And we haven't even gotten to Matsui or A-Rod, who was the best player of them all.

Even the king of homers has to admit that that offseason it looked like the Yankees were acquiring a lot more talent than they did this year. An elite pitcher as well as two of the top hitters in baseball, and to most elite hitter in Japan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dzxef1muoQ

lol at you saying Vazquez had an OPS+ (which is an offensive stat)

Kevin Brown pitched in the NL

Sheffield was old and injury prone.

King of homers belongs to you buddy

MelkyNYY
12-24-2008, 06:34 PM
Wow, now you're taking your homer tendencies to a whole new level.

You COMPLETELY left out Kevin Brown who was coming off an ERA+ of 169, with an ERA under 2.70 in three of the last four years. That's better than Sabathia's track record going into 2009.

Vazquez was coming off a 139 OPS+, having had an ERA under 3 the last three years in a row. That's much, much better than Burnett's track record going into 2009.

Sheffield was coming off four years in which he'd averaged an OPS+ over 160. And he had a pretty damn year in 2004 as well, putting up an OPS+ of 141. That's a better track record than Tex has going into 2009.

And we haven't even gotten to Matsui or A-Rod, who was the best player of them all.

Even the king of homers has to admit that that offseason it looked like the Yankees were acquiring a lot more talent than they did this year. Two elite pitchers as well as two of the top hitters in baseball, and to most elite hitter in Japan.

Lets bid 51 million dollars on a Japanese pitcher who has never thrown a major league ball

Remember? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVCGyrww_M)

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 06:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dzxef1muoQ

lol at you saying Vazquez had an OPS+ (which is an offensive stat)

Kevin Brown pitched in the NL

Sheffield was old and injury prone.

King of homers belongs to you buddy

Wow, I accidently put OPS+ instead of the correct ERA+, that must invalidate my entire argument.

Come on, be reasonable for one second.

A-Rod, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield, Javier Vazquez and Hideki Matsui is MUCH better an offseason than CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and AJ Burnett.

If you can't admit that, I'm going to add a new section of my profile for you because you are being deliriously biased.

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 06:36 PM
Lets bid 51 million dollars on a Japanese pitcher who has never thrown a major league ball

Remember? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVCGyrww_M)

Did that happen in 2004? Because we're talking about the 2004 Yankees offseason.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 06:39 PM
Wow, I accidently put OPS+ instead of the correct ERA+, that must invalidate my entire argument.

Come on, be reasonable for one second.

A-Rod, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield, Javier Vazquez and Hideki Matsui is MUCH better an offseason than CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and AJ Burnett.

If you can't admit that, I'm going to add a new section of my profile for you because you are being deliriously biased.

Arod and Matsui are the only players that were any good that we got. And the only player the Yankees got that we KNEW would do well was Arod. No one wanted Sheffield except George. No one in their right mind wanted Brown or Vazquez.

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 06:41 PM
Arod and Matsui are the only players that were any good that we got. And the only player the Yankees got that we KNEW would do well was Arod. No one wanted Sheffield except George. No one in their right mind wanted Brown or Vazquez.

It doesn't matter if no one wanted Sheffield but George. At the time the Yankees acquired Sheffield, he was much better than Teixeira is now. Check the stats I posted.

And Brown and Vazquez were some of the most elite pitchers in baseball. Just because they didn't work out doesn't mean they didn't look like great pickups. That would be like saying Sabathia and Burnett didn't look good pickups at the time if Sabathia's shoulder falls off and Burnett turns into Pavano.

Run Gardner Run
12-24-2008, 06:45 PM
i think its time for me to head off to ze party. Gentlemen....Adajborg, have fun debating. And if I dont speak to you later tonight due to being passed out, have a merry and safe Teix-Mas

Adalbjorg
12-24-2008, 06:55 PM
i think its time for me to head off to ze party. Gentlemen....Adajborg, have fun debating. And if I dont speak to you later tonight due to being passed out, have a merry and safe Teix-Mas

Thanks Gardner. Be safe tonight!

Drawantz
12-24-2008, 06:56 PM
They have no farm system, nor can they develop the garbage they have in the farm system. Fact of the matter is, you need team unity to win a championship and you cannot buy that...

Take the redsox for example, youkalis, pedroia, ellsbury, lester, bucholz are all brought up from the farm system. These guys are hard working guys that play together as one to be successful.

You can't buy that....

No, but you can make sure that group will be together for a LONG time (which by the way is how you build team unity), something some franchises don't have the luxury of doing.

Apophis
12-24-2008, 07:06 PM
Crying??


:mad::mad::mad::mad: Damn Nighthawk... Your freakin sig makes me want to bite those Red Sox labels right off of her... but knowing me.. I would have to lick it off first.... :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :rolleyes: :p

Your sig makes me like Red Sox fans and thats not fair dude...

CHRISDODGERS
12-24-2008, 07:09 PM
Yea... I'm sick of them...

AND THE 30 DIFFERENT YANKEE THREADS!

:pity:

Drawantz
12-24-2008, 07:19 PM
2007 (Payrolls courtesy of ESPN.com)
4 out of the ten teams with the highest 2007 opening day payrolls made the playoffs (40%)
1 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 11-20 made the playoffs (10%)
3 out of the ten teams with payrolls from 21-30 made the playoffs (30%)

Personally if just under half of the playoff teams came out of the bottom 3rd in payroll in 2007 . . . that seems to me like payroll doesn't make all that much of a difference.

Using your standards dude.
All right, let's go through the years
(courtesy of MLB.com)
06
Top 10 payrolls= 3 playoff teams (40%)
11-20= 4 playoff teams (30%)
21-30= 1 playoff team (10%)
05
Top 10 payrolls= 4 playoff teams (40%)
11-20= 4 playoff teams (40%)
21-30= 0 playoff teams
By the way, no team with a payroll ranked lower than 16 made the playoffs in 05.
04
Top 10 payrolls= 6 playoff teams (60%)
11-20= 2 playoff teams
21-30= 0 playoff teams

So, in the last 5 years, 22 top 10 payroll teams have made the playoffs, 13 teams with payrolls 11-20 have made the playoffs, and 5 teams with payrolls 21-30 have made the playoffs. Seem fair?

Silver88
12-24-2008, 07:28 PM
NOPE!

Only Yankee haters who constantly whine and whine about what the Yankees do, more than the teams they cheer for is bad for baseball. Don't like it? Tell the other 29 teams to play better.

Allabouthephils
12-24-2008, 07:39 PM
All right, let's go through the years
(courtesy of MLB.com)
06
Top 10 payrolls= 3 playoff teams (40%)
11-20= 4 playoff teams (30%)
21-30= 1 playoff team (10%)
05
Top 10 payrolls= 4 playoff teams (40%)
11-20= 4 playoff teams (40%)
21-30= 0 playoff teams
By the way, no team with a payroll ranked lower than 16 made the playoffs in 05.
04
Top 10 payrolls= 6 playoff teams (60%)
11-20= 2 playoff teams
21-30= 0 playoff teams

So, in the last 5 years, 22 top 10 payroll teams have made the playoffs, 13 teams with payrolls 11-20 have made the playoffs, and 5 teams with payrolls 21-30 have made the playoffs. Seem fair?

These teams also have the biggest fan bases in the entire country... They also have television networks and ( the biggest kicker) most merchandise sales in the country, that allows them to generate the revenue to spend all the money on their ballclub... If the Royals had a fan base as large as the Yankees, they would spend just as much... I assure you of that my friend...

This is a perfect example of how you get out of that bad revenue slide... WINNING and developing a decent farm system... The Rays are generating a major fan base down in the Florida right now... Talks of signing Carl Crawford to a long term extension next season were crazy... Now, they are generating revenue and they don't seem so crazy, plus, they may just add Pat Burrell this season as a DH ... What's the philosophical difference between them and the Rays ??? Bad management both on and off the field...

Allabouthephils
12-24-2008, 07:43 PM
The question isn't whether you hate the Yankees for signing all your prized free agents...
The question is whether the Yankees are good for baseball...


This isn't even a debate... It's, without a doubt, yes... The Yankees have generated more revenue for the game of baseball than half the other teams combined in the games entire history...

Philapsychosis
12-24-2008, 07:59 PM
Yankees are great for baseball for this reason alone. Everyone is talking about baseball again in the middle of 3 different seasons for american sports. They are great for the interest in the game.

However, I still believe that only the Sabathia signing makes them better. Burnett is a mediocre pitcher at best, overpaying him is their mistake. While Tex is great, I don't think he makes the Yankees an over the top favorite. Their still going to have to compete with 2 teams that are better in their division alone

Elements
12-24-2008, 08:01 PM
They have no farm system, nor can they develop the garbage they have in the farm system. Fact of the matter is, you need team unity to win a championship and you cannot buy that...

Take the redsox for example, youkalis, pedroia, ellsbury, lester, bucholz are all brought up from the farm system. These guys are hard working guys that play together as one to be successful.

You can't buy that....
No farm system? Wang, Chamberlain, Hughes, Cano, Cabrera, Gardner, Ramirez, Veras.

Elements
12-24-2008, 08:11 PM
If a team that had smart management spent 200 million they'd win 120 games. If the Rays or Phillies added CC, AJ, and Tex they'd win at least 120. It does my heart good to see Hank ruin George's team. Anyway, yes they are bad for baseball. Explain to me how it's fair that one team spends 10 times as much as another?
Because they generate tons of money and thus are able to use it to improve their team each year.

SeoulBeatz
12-24-2008, 08:21 PM
eh, i could care less, its kinda absurd the amount of money theyre spending but whatever, my phillies won the world series and thats all that matters :)

IBleedPurple
12-24-2008, 08:29 PM
NOPE!

Only Yankee haters who constantly whine and whine about what the Yankees do, more than the teams they cheer for is bad for baseball. Don't like it? Tell the other 29 teams to play better.

Yeah because a team that was brought up through the farm system can compete year in and year out against a team of all-stars? :rolleyes:

Silver88
12-24-2008, 08:36 PM
Yeah because a team that was brought up through the farm system can compete year in and year out against a team of all-stars? :rolleyes:

Well I got 3 words for ya

Tampa
Bay
Rays

Ewagner
12-24-2008, 10:47 PM
You mean the LF that almost one a batting title? The CF who is second in the leage in Zone Rating? The RF that is 30 years old. Moron.

Arod at third? Jeter at Short? Cano at secon? Teix at first. Posada/Molina at C

Sabathia
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Hughes

Top 5 bullpen last year?

Cry.

k let's take this one step at a time

LF - Damon who is going to 36
CF - Cabrera they openly trading and sent to the minors at the end of the year
RF - Nady journey man
3B - A-Rod great player no question
SS - Jeter at the tail end of his career worst fielding range of any SS in baseball
2B - Cano who batted .271 at that was only after hitting over .400 for the last month
1B - great player no question
C - Posada 37 and journey Molina
DH - Matsui who hasn't played a full season since 2005

SP1 - Sabathia who struggled in the AL the first half of last year before moving to weaker NL
SP2-5 - Burnett, Wang, Chamberlain, Hughes have all spent significant time on the DL within the last two years
CL - Rivera is going to be 40

so a team that was bad offensive lost two of its best offensive players a replaced them with Tex. to add one more log to the fire. One of Girardi's biggest knocks when he was in florida was that he abused his pitching staff which showed the year after he was there and the years that followed because all those pitchers had arm issues the end of that year and the next. if i am correct and i can be corrected but 3 of those pitchers had tommy john surgury that year or the next.

Allabouthephils
12-24-2008, 11:02 PM
Well I got 3 words for ya

Tampa
Bay
Rays

They have positioned themselves nicely to resign Carl Crawford ( a high priced, soon to be free agent) to a long term contract extension... They have positioned themselves nicely to sign Pat Burrell to a contract as well because they developed a fan base because they started winning by running their franchise the right way on and off the field...

If the Royals started doing that thing, they would start developing a fan base too and would be able to spend money...

Are you going to knock the Rays for signing Crawford and Burrell if they do ???

What people don't realize is that it's not the Yankees fault they know how to run a business... It's everyone elses fault they don't have the same core principles as the Yanks...

I'm a Phils fans and I realize that

Ewagner
12-24-2008, 11:18 PM
It's easy to run a business when you price everyone out of the market. the yankees are going to become the globetrotters of the 60's. they should just drop out of the league and go around and play everyone and take a percentage of the gate. that is basically what we are talking about here. this is good for the yankees but not the league. you can't charge people in 80% of the country $50 for bleacher seats. are people ready to compare NYC to Kansas City? for the sake of arguement. move steinbrenner and this whole yankee team to kansas city how long would they sustain life? No knock on Kansas City but can it's not NYC or Boston or Los angeles. the league should fold 15 teams because realistically there are only maybe 17 cities that can sustain teams at these prices. the yankees are going to crash the market eventually.

Drawantz
12-24-2008, 11:40 PM
Sorry buddy thats just how it works. What happened to the other 5 teams with the highest payrolls? They didn't make the playoffs.

The big market you are in the more money you have. Them more money you have the more you can spend on good players. The more good players you have the more you win. Simple stuff.

Does having a high payroll mean you'll make the playoffs? No. It that was true that stat would be 8 out of the 10 team with the highest payroll make the playoffs.

Good thing football is fair buddy. No wonder it blew past baseball and the few high payroll teams that represent it and will continue to unless they eliminate a salary cap in football.

YankeeFan28
12-24-2008, 11:43 PM
Good thing football is fair buddy. No wonder it blew past baseball and the few high payroll teams that represent it and will continue to unless they eliminate a salary cap in football.

Thank god in football the Houston Texans are worth more then the Yankees, yet are perennial cellar dwellers.

JHG722
12-24-2008, 11:43 PM
The major market teams drive up the price of free agents, which IMO needs to be somewhat regulated. This obviously includes the Yankees.

Drawantz
12-24-2008, 11:44 PM
from what year to what year?
Lets just look at the list of champions from 2001 to now..... Pure simple facts....

2008 Philadelphia Phillies (upper mid) Tampa Bay Rays (small Market)
2007 Boston Red Sox Colorado Rockies (small Market)
2006 Saint Louis Cardinals (upper mid) Detroit Tigers (mid market)
2005 Chicago White Sox Houston Astros <both big market
2004 Boston Red Sox Saint Louis Cardinals <both big market
2003 Florida Marlins (small market) New York Yankees
2002 Anaheim Angels San Francisco Giants


That's not counting who made it to the playoffs as well. This is just world series matchups.

1) This isn't just in baseball, if you CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY PLAYERS YOU WONT WIN. That's not rocket science!! But the fact is.. In what other sport do you get middle or small market clubs that are competitive enough to make it to such a small playoff? (4 teams from each league make it. Only 3 rounds.)

2) The Yankees have not been in ANY of those big dances, and didn't make it past the first round in many of those years despite the highest payroll.

3) You can't just buy rings. The Yanks have tried their best and they can't. This takes actually alot of scouting and farm developement. This is good for baseball.

4) The Yanks have a lot of farm grown players too btw. (SS Jeter, C Posada, 2b Cano, Center Cabrera, SP Chamberlane, SP Pettite, Closer Rivera, Sp Hughes, and various guys in their bullpen, or the bench.

5) Spending money on these players are a gamble that the Yanks have failed over and over again.

Guess what, in football the Packers from the small town of Green Bay, Wisconsin have the most world championships of any team in history. Do you think they produce as much revenue as a NY team? They don't, but a salary cap has evened the playing field.

JHG722
12-24-2008, 11:49 PM
For mr. Weapon M, Philadelphia is the 4th largest media market...

tomno00
12-24-2008, 11:52 PM
im just going to laugh when the yankees miss the playoffs again.... quick question for yankee fans.. do you guys get as excited when your team wins knowing that, in essence, your management is pretty much trying to buy you a championship?

Tekmosis
12-25-2008, 12:02 AM
Sooooooo many haters on PSD

Drawantz
12-25-2008, 12:07 AM
These teams also have the biggest fan bases in the entire country... They also have television networks and ( the biggest kicker) most merchandise sales in the country, that allows them to generate the revenue to spend all the money on their ballclub... If the Royals had a fan base as large as the Yankees, they would spend just as much... I assure you of that my friend...

This is a perfect example of how you get out of that bad revenue slide... WINNING and developing a decent farm system... The Rays are generating a major fan base down in the Florida right now... Talks of signing Carl Crawford to a long term extension next season were crazy... Now, they are generating revenue and they don't seem so crazy, plus, they may just add Pat Burrell this season as a DH ... What's the philosophical difference between them and the Rays ??? Bad management both on and off the field...

Why do you think football is more popular than baseball? Because even though the high market teams make WAY more revenue, everyone has a good chance at success.

Lady's Man
12-25-2008, 12:09 AM
Sooooooo many haters on PSD

oh please, so you think its right that the yankees are asking for more money from the taxpayers... while they go off on their mini spending spree? in the meantime, you have thousands of cops and firefighters being laid off and crime in the city is thus skyrocketing.

Its pathetic. Ohh who cares about the people getting mugged or shot or even killed right? Well i guess spending tax money on the yankess is a better idea.

Tekmosis
12-25-2008, 12:10 AM
im just going to laugh when the yankees miss the playoffs again.... quick question for yankee fans.. do you guys get as excited when your team wins knowing that, in essence, your management is pretty much trying to buy you a championship?

You want us to lose



Deep Down you know we'll win!

Tekmosis
12-25-2008, 12:16 AM
oh please, so you think its right that the yankees are asking for more money from the taxpayers... while they go off on their mini spending spree? in the meantime, you have thousands of cops and firefighters being laid off and crime in the city is thus skyrocketing.

Its pathetic. Ohh who cares about the people getting mugged or shot or even killed right? Well i guess spending tax money on the yankess is a better idea.

Ohhh, but when the Red Sox sign players to huge deals its - "Hahahahaha, Yankees Suck! Red Sox Signed (insert name here)" - All Red Sox fans need to stop blowing this out of proportion claiming that the Yankees are "killing people" because FireFighters apparently are getting laid off by the hunreds. Yankees aren't doing anything illegal or against the rules. My contients will be clear and not polluted with your stupid Red Sox fan cry baby whinning when we take are 27 ring in 09.

JHG722
12-25-2008, 12:22 AM
oh please, so you think its right that the yankees are asking for more money from the taxpayers... while they go off on their mini spending spree? in the meantime, you have thousands of cops and firefighters being laid off and crime in the city is thus skyrocketing.

Its pathetic. Ohh who cares about the people getting mugged or shot or even killed right? Well i guess spending tax money on the yankess is a better idea.

I asked my brother about the taxpayers issue, and he said that almost always, the city wants to help pay for a stadium, because they can profit from it.

baseball4ever
12-25-2008, 12:53 AM
Hell No! Without an evil empire what would Luke Skywalker do??

DeadSexy
12-25-2008, 12:55 AM
They are the Yanks...slightly tacky tho

Drucifer
12-25-2008, 01:13 AM
You may not like 'em, but the Yanks are not bad for baseball.

Drucifer
12-25-2008, 01:19 AM
oh please, so you think its right that the yankees are asking for more money from the taxpayers... while they go off on their mini spending spree? in the meantime, you have thousands of cops and firefighters being laid off and crime in the city is thus skyrocketing.

Its pathetic. Ohh who cares about the people getting mugged or shot or even killed right? Well i guess spending tax money on the yankess is a better idea.I do believe they're asking for the bond to be increase. A bond is like a loan from the government. Both teams must pay back the bond plus interest. I thinking the interest is real low, but anyway, this is not a handout.

king4day
12-25-2008, 01:28 AM
The Yankee franchise isn't the only one spending a lot. We are spending more, yes, but if Boston signed Tex and not us, our payrolls would be a lot closer, yet not a peep would come out about how they are spending a ton.

What's bad is, there never will be a salary cap because players will not agree on it. They will strike and the game will be SCABS again. That strike would last a whole lot longer.
The most likely scenario will have a much harder tax hit where the Yanks may have to pay 50-75 mil instead of 25

king4day
12-25-2008, 01:30 AM
oh please, so you think its right that the yankees are asking for more money from the taxpayers... while they go off on their mini spending spree? in the meantime, you have thousands of cops and firefighters being laid off and crime in the city is thus skyrocketing.

Its pathetic. Ohh who cares about the people getting mugged or shot or even killed right? Well i guess spending tax money on the yankess is a better idea.

The Yanks have a budget set aside for player transactions. It has nothing to do with the stadium.
Why has the topic of the stadium been brought up in a forum asking if the Yanks are bad for baseball. It wasn't asked, "Are the Yanks bad for NY".

dcannon456
12-25-2008, 01:36 AM
the yankees are the light that burns the moph.







.......not that there is anything wrong with that!

MelkyNYY
12-25-2008, 01:40 AM
In due time, I think we will all realize what is indeed good for baseball. Debating it has been fun, nothing personal to any of you guys. I enjoy the game and enjoy defending my team, and hopefully we never get to the point where we find out what baseball is like without the Yankees. That would be a sad day for baseball/

Allabouthephils
12-25-2008, 01:41 AM
Why do you think football is more popular than baseball? Because even though the high market teams make WAY more revenue, everyone has a good chance at success.


That isn't true... All a salary cap does is bail out the lower market teams from running their organizations into the ground by taking the revenue from the higher market teams and putting into the lower market teams instead of giving them their due... If baseball had more checks and balances as to who they allowed to run the organizations, then this would never happen... They allow people like David Glass of Kansas City to keep their organizations even though they have no intention of putting a competitive product on the field...
A salary cap is a joke in baseball because it would inhibit teams from running successful business models and trying to maximize their profits which is what baseball should be trying to do...

In essence, the Yankees wouldn't generate nearly as much publicity as they do now without having all the stars they do in NY... They generate the most revenue and should spend the most money... It's only fair and if people understood that, there wouldn't a debate...

baseball4ever
12-25-2008, 01:46 AM
You got that right when it comes to merchandise. The Yankee cap is the most popular all over the world; especially in Japan. A few years back I had the chance to go to Europe. I visited London, Amsterdam and Prague. In all three places i saw two main USA sports caps. The Yanks and the Raiders (guess they like Pirates) haha

dcannon456
12-25-2008, 01:48 AM
In due time, I think we will all realize what is indeed good for baseball. Debating it has been fun, nothing personal to any of you guys. I enjoy the game and enjoy defending my team, and hopefully we never get to the point where we find out what baseball is like without the Yankees. That would be a sad day for baseball/



if the yankeees were someday to cease to exist. a team like the redsox would just as quickly step in to fill the void. there will always be a team already at the top. and willing to spend enough to push them clear over it. without the competitiveness of the yankees in the division other teams in the east would be a little more willing to throw some money around.

dcannon456
12-25-2008, 01:55 AM
That isn't true... All a salary cap does is bail out the lower market teams from running their organizations into the ground by taking the revenue from the higher market teams and putting into the lower market teams instead of giving them their due... If baseball had more checks and balances as to who they allowed to run the organizations, then this would never happen... They allow people like David Glass of Kansas City to keep their organizations even though they have no intention of putting a competitive product on the field...
A salary cap is a joke in baseball because it would inhibit teams from running successful business models and trying to maximize their profits which is what baseball should be trying to do...


In essence, the Yankees wouldn't generate nearly as much publicity as they do now without having all the stars they do in NY... They generate the most revenue and should spend the most money... It's only fair and if people understood that, there wouldn't a debate...


while i agree there are many incompetent owners who shouldnt be allowed to participate in the MLB. i dont agree on the salary cap. to truly see who has the better organization, team etc. each year. all teams should start with the same pool of money. but im also one of the few(suprisingly) who also thinks its a joke that stadiums are allowed to be so fluctual with their dimensions

Ballinizlyfe89
12-25-2008, 01:58 AM
Suck it up.

Complaint 1: "No other team has a chance."
Baseball isn't decided by the best fantasy team. It's played on the field, in real life. Are the Yankees going to win it all come October? Maybe. Are they going to even make it to October? Maybe. Have they improved the odds? Yes.

Complaint 2: "Not everyone has the resources to do what they're doing."

Rovell (http://www.cnbc.com/id/28370215) - The reason the Yankees can do this is because their owners, the Steinbrenners, have no other primary business besides the Yankees.

Other owners pocket the money and invest it into their other financial investments. The Steinbrenners have baseball. YES and the Yankees are their sources of wealth. After missing the playoffs last year, the fan base was struck pretty hard. If they don't shell out the cash for some big names, they would lost some of those fans. I even stopped watching towards the end of the season. So, for them to view and treat baseball as a business isn't absurd, it's necessary.

Complaint 3: "They put in 400+ million dollars in one offseason."
Over what? The next eight years or so? There is no FedEx guy going to Teix's house and dropping off 180.

Complaint 4: "Country's in a recession, how can they do that."
They're doing the opposite of what the CEOs that spoiled the economy did. Instead of taking that money and wasting it, they turned it into a product on the field.

Happy Holidays. Hate on.

mijit88
12-25-2008, 02:35 AM
YES! They are like cancer and aids rolled up into one.

that pretty much sums it up for me

Wyld1
12-25-2008, 10:54 AM
im just going to laugh when the yankees miss the playoffs again.... quick question for yankee fans.. do you guys get as excited when your team wins knowing that, in essence, your management is pretty much trying to buy you a championship?


LMAO...do you get excited losing every year?????????:rolleyes:
Merry Christmas to all...even the jealous, under endowed Yankee haters.......admit it you're jealous of our endowment:D

royalswine
12-25-2008, 11:37 AM
I do believe they're asking for the bond to be increase. A bond is like a loan from the government. Both teams must pay back the bond plus interest. I thinking the interest is real low, but anyway, this is not a handout.

They are asking for tax free bonds. I do not think the Yankees are bad for baseball. They are just fine by me but to play in the New York market is a privilege and they should not get any tax exempt bonds. Even if the interest is really low it adds up, otherwise the Yanks would not be asking the city to not charge them interest. I agree the city benefits from having the team but by the same token that team benefits by playing in such a gigantic city.

Tragedy
12-25-2008, 11:38 AM
Rovell - The reason the Yankees can do this is because their owners, the Steinbrenners, have no other primary business besides the Yankees.
Having the YES network does not help, AT ALL.

Or it helps them so freaking much.

YankeeFan28
12-25-2008, 11:44 AM
Having the YES network does not help, AT ALL.

Or it helps them so freaking much.

So? The Mets are in the same city, have their own network, same chances, same new ballpark, yet the Yankees get all the help?

My point is, they have the same opportunities, but their owner has other primary businesses, like Real Estate, and he's losing money in those businesses. He's going to have to take some profits from the Mets to mitigate his losses.

The Yankees owners just own the Yankees for the most part and their business is making them money and they have a chance to make more money, so reinvesting it makes more sense.

Tragedy
12-25-2008, 11:46 AM
So? The Mets are in the same city, have their own network, same chances, same new ballpark, yet the Yankees get all the help?

My point is, they have the same opportunities, but their owner has other primary businesses, like Real Estate, and he's losing money in those businesses. He's going to have to take some profits from the Mets to mitigate his losses.

The Yankees owners just own the Yankees for the most part and their business is making them money and they have a chance to make more money, so reinvesting it makes more sense.
I'm not taking a side, I'm just saying, they don't have any other businesses that I'm aware of, but they're one of only (two? I don't know) a handful of teams with their own network. Pretty impressive, and makes them a CRAPLOAD of money (I forget the exact numbers, but someone said like $70 million this year? More? Less?)

BeantownBill
12-25-2008, 12:00 PM
The Yankees, whether fans of other teams (I count myself as one, obviously) like it or not, are baseball's signature franchise. Worldwide, they're neat the top if not THE most popular sports franchises in existence. The way the spend money may be bad for baseball, but to say the 'Yankees' are bad for baseball is stupid. Sometimes, I dream .. and I envision a world in which one of the Steinbrenners' relatives acquires the Yankees and implodes the team because he's cheap. Cheap to the point of not putting any money back into the team. The team suffers, they slide into obscurity as they were in the mid 80s, and no one cares about them except for the true die-hard fans. All those pink, red and green Yankee caps disappear, casual fans pretend all along they followed the Mets (or whomever is winning at that time) and with all the focus stripped from the Bombers .. do people get interested in other teams now, because someone else steps into the void and wins something, the way Tampa did? I'm not so sure. Part of me thinks it could happen, but another part says that without the Yankees being relevant, baseball could suffer.

Now that I really think about it, I think if the Yankees were to return to their state of 'irrelevance' baseball might actually prosper as a result.

What team in baseball today will come close to the Yankees payroll in '09? Not the Red Sox, for all you whiny haters .. looks as if they're going to wind up close to 100 million less than their rivals for the upcoming season. What will you do when other teams start to fall further and further behind. You'll have nothing to compare your team to, won't that be a *****?

I guess what I'm saying is that the Yankees image .. the pinstripes, the stadium, all those championships, ARE baseball. They are a huge part of what defines baseball, even for me, a Red Sox fan. Their owners? Bugshit crazy, and getting worse with each passing year. Happy Holidays everyone!

YankeeFan28
12-25-2008, 12:06 PM
I'm not taking a side, I'm just saying, they don't have any other businesses that I'm aware of, but they're one of only (two? I don't know) a handful of teams with their own network. Pretty impressive, and makes them a CRAPLOAD of money (I forget the exact numbers, but someone said like $70 million this year? More? Less?)

I believe the Red Sox own part of NESN, and the Giants just started their own.

The circumstances might not be fair, but there are many failed plan of actions taken by teams to increase revenue. As I stated before, there's no reason why a team in Miami could have a smaller payroll then a team in Pittsburgh. The Dodgers are in just as big of a town as the Yankees with really being the primary team in LA (Angels are still in Anaheim). Why were they 7th in baseball in total payroll? This is inexcusable. But it makes sense because their owners primary business is also real estate I believe. Easy to take profits from your baseball team when your primary business is losing money.

Blame the Yankees, but look within first and solve your own problems first like the Red Sox have. Obviously some teams still won't be able to compete in terms of payroll, but they should be trying to fix themselves first (Miami, Toronto, LA come to mind.)

Wyld1
12-25-2008, 12:42 PM
Having the YES network does not help, AT ALL.

Or it helps them so freaking much.

NESN, the ******** "Yankee's Suck" items and the ridiculous "Red Sox Nation" media creation don't help the Sox financialy?:rolleyes:

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tragedy
12-25-2008, 12:48 PM
NESN, the ******** "Yankee's Suck" items and the ridiculous "Red Sox Nation" media creation don't help the Sox financialy?:rolleyes:

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry, but did I bring up the Red Sox or anything to do with what the Red Sox generate?:eyebrow:

My point was the ridiculous money the Yankees also make off of YES, which most teams do not get that luxury. I wasn't even taking a side, just stating a fact.

Uncle Funster
12-25-2008, 03:22 PM
To: The Rest of Baseball

From: The New York Yankees


Quit your whining and spend some of the revenue sharing tax on your ballplayers instead of lining your fat pockets to cover your stock market/ Bernia Madoff losses. Our payroll is less than it was last year and we don't have to pay you gutter snipes the luxury extortion money this year because of the exemption that comes with our new ball park.:clap: Oh, happy-happy, joy-joy!!!:D

So - Crappy Holidays.:p

ps: Oh, and see you in Rocktober.;)

BeantownBill
12-25-2008, 05:38 PM
hunreds contients Is english your first language? I have a spell checker on my browser and it literally burped, spit out a puff of smoke and died.

BeantownBill
12-25-2008, 05:44 PM
Take the Yankees out of the MLB and lets see the MLB survive. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Yankees are a draw. MLB needs the Yankees


I normally respect your posts here and in the Sox forums, but for you to say baseball would DIE if the Yankees weren't around? Jesus H. Baldheaded Christ, that's as moronic a statement as has ever been made here. You think the rest of the country is going to stop following their teams, going to games, buying merchandise .. because your Yankees aren't there to play? I'm laughing so hard right now I'm tearing up .. Good Lord.

BeantownBill
12-25-2008, 05:49 PM
Are the Pittsburgh Pirates bad for baseball?
or
Are the Kansas City Royals bad for baseball?

Both the Royals and Pirates were powerhouses and both won championships, back in the day when players salaries weren't inflated to the point of strangling the game. Please pay attention, unless you're simply too young to remember anything before 1990.

rse1987
12-25-2008, 07:31 PM
i hope Tex tears his ACL
CC needs Tommy John surgery
Burnett turns into PAVANO

wouldt this be great!

jamool26
12-25-2008, 07:40 PM
It's not the Yankees who are bad for baseball it's baseball that is bad for baseball. The Yankees don't do anything but spend the money that they make from having the most lucrative franchise in all of sports. They follow the rules and just spend spend spend. Baseball is who needs to step in and make it impossible for the Yankees to corner the free agent market every year. Baseball first screwed up by expanding the league and adding teams to markets where the sport wouldn't exactly thrive. I personally hate the Yankees because they make it so a lot of other teams don't have a chance to land a prized free agent, but it's not really their fault if you think about it. Yeah they could sit back and not try to make their team better, but when you play in New York it doesn't really work that easily. The fans know they make a ton of loot and would rip the organization if they didn't use their resources. This is a baseball issue, not a Yankees issue.

Tragedy
12-25-2008, 09:10 PM
i hope Tex tears his ACL
CC needs Tommy John surgery
Burnett turns into PAVANO

wouldt this be great!
No, it wouldn't.

mnrlgry
12-25-2008, 09:17 PM
It's not the Yankees who are bad for baseball it's baseball that is bad for baseball.


+1


I hate the Yankee's spending as much as anyone but these threads/polls are getting ridiculous. Soon there will be a "how much do you hate the yankees on a scale of 1-10" poll.

NYMetros
12-25-2008, 09:21 PM
i hope Tex tears his ACL
CC needs Tommy John surgery
Burnett turns into PAVANO

wouldt this be great!

:pity:

penuch
12-25-2008, 09:40 PM
To me the Yankees are better for baseball than the teams whos owners refuse to put up the money to make their club a viable team. In all reality that is worse for baseball. Having teams who just feed of revenue sharing and the luxury tax that other teams pay. I think an equal comparision is the homeless man on the corner who spends all day asking people for change. Yes they may eventually get enough money for food, but if they just put in half the effort to get a job they would be able to get a meal much quicker. So now in baseball terms if owners put up the money instead of just waiting for other teams handouts (revenue sharing) then they would be able to compete. I hate the Yankees just as much as anybody else but NO they are not bad for baseball.... CHEAP OWNERS ARE BAD FOR BASEBALL.

penuch
12-25-2008, 09:44 PM
i hope Tex tears his ACL
CC needs Tommy John surgery
Burnett turns into PAVANO

wouldt this be great!

Not really! Cause then 1. Thats pretty ****** to wish harm on players cause you don't like the club they signed with. 2. When beat a team you wanna beat the best team they can field not some rag tag group they threw together because of injury.


Seriously can we end all these Yankees suck for baseball, We need a salary cap because of the yankees or "place your own words here...yankees"

penuch
12-25-2008, 09:48 PM
In due time, I think we will all realize what is indeed good for baseball. Debating it has been fun, nothing personal to any of you guys. I enjoy the game and enjoy defending my team, and hopefully we never get to the point where we find out what baseball is like without the Yankees. That would be a sad day for baseball/

Indeed. As well as for Red Sox fans cause then who would we hate the pirates :D

Bosh=nextKG
12-25-2008, 10:48 PM
well they proved that u can buy a championship. if they don't win the WS, then they are the most pathetic team in the history of baseball

YankeeFan28
12-25-2008, 10:49 PM
well they proved that u can buy a championship. if they don't win the WS, then they are the most pathetic team in the history of baseball

Will that make you feel better at night?

Ballinizlyfe89
12-25-2008, 11:06 PM
well they proved that u can buy a championship. if they don't win the WS, then they are the most pathetic team in the history of baseball

Because the Royals are so much more fantastic.

BeantownBill
12-25-2008, 11:06 PM
i hope Tex tears his ACL
CC needs Tommy John surgery
Burnett turns into PAVANO


Yeah, that's just not cool. I don't care what jersey they wear, I would never wish bodily harm on another human being unless they harmed me or my family. Let's face it .. the chances of Tex or Jeter or A-Rod knocking on my door? Probably not so good ..

penuch
12-25-2008, 11:11 PM
i hope Tex tears his ACL
CC needs Tommy John surgery
Burnett turns into PAVANO


Yeah, that's just not cool. I don't care what jersey they wear, I would never wish bodily harm on another human being unless they harmed me or my family. Let's face it .. the chances of Tex or Jeter or A-Rod knocking on my door? Probably not so good ..

If they do even as a Sox fan I would get their autographs :D

Dr Voodoo
12-25-2008, 11:20 PM
Yup

Sportfan
12-25-2008, 11:38 PM
Will that make you feel better at night?

yes:D

76YazwSideburns
12-25-2008, 11:44 PM
Since 2001 they've spent in the neighbourhood of 1.5 billion dollars on their rosters and haven't won a World Series.

They aren't bad for baseball - they're just the baseball equivalent of Waterworld.

Buck Foston
12-26-2008, 10:06 AM
No they aren't. The amount of revenue they bring in for baseball is amazing. The money that is made when they're at home in tickets and merchandise. The money they generate when they are on the road. Visiting teams sell Yankee gear in their stores when the team visits b/c they know it will sell.

Yankee fans are all over the country because of people moving, heritage, and yes even the bandwagon ones. But they also travel well. I went to go see the Yanks play in Houston this year for example, and I met a lot of New Yorkers who also decided to make the trip.

People can debate signings all they want, but if a team makes the money and is allowed to spend it, then who can fault the team? Because ultimately it is the players decision to choose their own destination, whether they choose the team who offered the most or not.

Good post :up:

Tragedy
12-26-2008, 10:08 AM
well they proved that u can buy a championship. if they don't win the WS, then they are the most pathetic team in the history of baseball
1) Signing Tex, CC, and AJ is not a "win in 2009 or failure for the rest of their contracts". This is an investment they made to win for the next handful of years with these guys being a major part of it. If they don't win in 2009, they'll still have the same team (if not better, based on prospects) team in 2010, and so on.

2) The Red Sox have the highest payroll of any team that has won the World Series. So lets not act like we're saints.

oak2455
12-26-2008, 10:23 AM
YES! They are like cancer and aids rolled up into one.

You should really think about what you say:speechless::speechless: I'm pretty sure that is a little more serios than any sport or anything you might think:shrug::pity:They are still 20 million under from what there payroll was last year.....its funny if any one other than the Yankees got Tex everything would be just fine:confused:
P.S Sorry we got C.C:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Fred
12-26-2008, 11:09 AM
Since 2001 they've spent in the neighbourhood of 1.5 billion dollars on their rosters and haven't won a World Series.

They aren't bad for baseball - they're just the baseball equivalent of Waterworld.

lol....nice reference...:clap:

yanksforlife
12-26-2008, 11:11 AM
Not really! Cause then 1. Thats pretty ****** to wish harm on players cause you don't like the club they signed with. 2. When beat a team you wanna beat the best team they can field not some rag tag group they threw together because of injury.


Seriously can we end all these Yankees suck for baseball, We need a salary cap because of the yankees or "place your own words here...yankees"

why dont you take a look at your own team's payroll pal heh? hypocrite

Tragedy
12-26-2008, 11:19 AM
why dont you take a look at your own team's payroll pal heh? hypocrite
It's currently under $100 million (or right above). So what?

Buck Foston
12-26-2008, 12:07 PM
1) Signing Tex, CC, and AJ is not a "win in 2009 or failure for the rest of their contracts". This is an investment they made to win for the next handful of years with these guys being a major part of it. If they don't win in 2009, they'll still have the same team (if not better, based on prospects) team in 2010, and so on.

2) The Red Sox have the highest payroll of any team that has won the World Series. So lets not act like we're saints.

I'm glad you pointed this out and commend you for doing so. A lot of people fail to realize this point, so I'm glad at least someone does.

Tragedy
12-26-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm glad you pointed this out and commend you for doing so. A lot of people fail to realize this point, so I'm glad at least someone does.
Hey, no reason to deny the obvious. I'll say the positives about my team, but I'm not going to beat around it and act like my team has never paid people.

Jyankee
12-26-2008, 01:52 PM
I feel the yankees are not bad to baseball. The other major league organizations need to stop complaning, ''its the yankees''. What can you do?

Sportfan
12-26-2008, 02:02 PM
wow didnt expect this thread to stay out this long lol.

Silver88
12-26-2008, 03:37 PM
I feel the yankees are not bad to baseball. The other major league organizations need to stop complaning, ''its the yankees''. What can you do?

Yeah, the other owners need to stop whining, and spend their money on anything, or else their fans rebel

yanksforlife
12-26-2008, 03:58 PM
what a bunch of crybabies. there's about 500 threads dogging the yanks and whining about how they're bad for baseball. these people worry more about the yanks than their own team

jealousy gets you nowhere. it only makes our glorious spotlight even bigger

YankeeFan28
12-26-2008, 04:01 PM
what a bunch of crybabies. there's about 500 threads dogging the yanks and whining about how they're bad for baseball. these people worry more about the yanks than their own team

jealousy gets you nowhere. it only makes our glorious spotlight even bigger

We haven't won anything yet. Let people hate all they want. They have a reason to hate us.

But we do not have any reason to be cocky, because we haven't won yet.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Yeah, the other owners need to stop whining, and spend their money on anything, or else their fans rebel

i hate this opinion. there are only a few cities, forget teams, that can support a payroll that the yankees have. by giving out these big contracts the yankees raise the scale. if teixeria makes this much how much is pujols going to get in two years.? this contract prices out the bottom half of the league. to many people look at what it does right now. look at what this does in the future for each of these contracts. the yankees keep raising the pay scale so there are only a few teams that can truly compete for players. very intelligent by them but not good for the overall sport. like have mentioned before the yankees should leave baseball and go back to there roots of the 1800's and play teams and take a portion at the gate. they can become the harlme globtrotters of the 60's. they can play by there own rules and make all the money they want.

YankeeFan28
12-26-2008, 04:06 PM
i hate this opinion. there are only a few cities, forget teams, that can support a payroll that the yankees have. by giving out these big contracts the yankees raise the scale. if teixeria makes this much how much is pujols going to get in two years.? this contract prices out the bottom half of the league. to many people look at what it does right now. look at what this does in the future for each of these contracts. the yankees keep raising the pay scale so there are only a few teams that can truly compete for players. very intelligent by them but not good for the overall sport. like have mentioned before the yankees should leave baseball and go back to there roots of the 1800's and play teams and take a portion at the gate. they can become the harlme globtrotters of the 60's. they can play by there own rules and make all the money they want.

The Yankees aren't the only ones raising pay scales. Teixeira was getting offered more the whole time by other teams till the Yankees offered 12M more then the Red Sox but less then the Nationals. Where were the Yankees when Arod was signed the first time? Or when Kevin Brown got the first 100M dollar deal. There have been plenty of signings by other teams that have raised the pay scale, not just by the Yankees.

It's so easy to blame the Yankees, but like you said, there are only a few teams that can support the payroll the Yankees have, where are they then? You can't hate on the Yankees or Boston because they have successful business plans that are maximizing their potential for revenue. People have to hate on their own teams that can't reach their business potential before they blame others for their problems.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 04:22 PM
The Yankees aren't the only ones raising pay scales. Teixeira was getting offered more the whole time by other teams till the Yankees offered 12M more then the Red Sox but less then the Nationals. Where were the Yankees when Arod was signed the first time? Or when Kevin Brown got the first 100M dollar deal. There have been plenty of signings by other teams that have raised the pay scale, not just by the Yankees.

It's so easy to blame the Yankees, but like you said, there are only a few teams that can support the payroll the Yankees have, where are they then? You can't hate on the Yankees or Boston because they have successful business plans that are maximizing their potential for revenue. People have to hate on their own teams that can't reach their business potential before they blame others for their problems.

here is the difference between the yankees and the rest of the even the red sox who are almost as bad. when A-rod signed with texas who else did they sign while they were there? when kevin brown signed with the dodgers who else did they sign? when the giants signed zito or bonds who else did they sign. thses teams need to go to these extremes to sign these players. the yankees sign CC they sign burnett they sign burnett. they have the top paid players at 3B, SS, 1B, and P in MLB. how does a team compete with that? yes most teams can sign one big name. even most big market teams can sign two. no one and i mean no one can handle three major contracts forget about 4 or 5. the other dfference is the yankees can make huge mistakes and make up for it by just signing someone else. example carl pavano, giving damon and the extra year, posada and the extra year. they make obvious mistakes over and over on overpaying and they have paid for it this decade.

YankeeFan28
12-26-2008, 04:39 PM
here is the difference between the yankees and the rest of the even the red sox who are almost as bad. when A-rod signed with texas who else did they sign while they were there? when kevin brown signed with the dodgers who else did they sign? when the giants signed zito or bonds who else did they sign. thses teams need to go to these extremes to sign these players. the yankees sign CC they sign burnett they sign burnett. they have the top paid players at 3B, SS, 1B, and P in MLB. how does a team compete with that? yes most teams can sign one big name. even most big market teams can sign two. no one and i mean no one can handle three major contracts forget about 4 or 5. the other dfference is the yankees can make huge mistakes and make up for it by just signing someone else. example carl pavano, giving damon and the extra year, posada and the extra year. they make obvious mistakes over and over on overpaying and they have paid for it this decade.

Then wouldn't the Yankees mistakes be good for baseball? Smaller markets can capitalize on revenue sharing and luxury tax while the Yankees fail and pay for it. let the Yankees continue to over spend. They'll make more merchandise revenue for all MLB teams. Their tax will be spread out through lower payroll teams and they still don't win the big games. I'm sure team owners don't complain when their stadiums are full when the Yankees come to town. Don't you find it a bit hypocritical?

I'm not saying the Yankees don't have an advantage. They have an advantage, there's no doubt about it. But I would rather see teams mimic the Yankees or Red Sox and implement a plan of action that would maximize revenue, even if it only adds 20% to revenue. That, would be better then complaining about the Yankees. People always blame others first and cannot see their own problems. You see Blue Jays fans complaining, yet they have potential to rake in 4M fans a year. Yet they can't even compete with Boston who's city consists of 600k people. Who has the superior business plan?

Look within, solve that first. Then level they playing field with a fair revenue sharing program.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 04:51 PM
Then wouldn't the Yankees mistakes be good for baseball? Smaller markets can capitalize on revenue sharing and luxury tax while the Yankees fail and pay for it. let the Yankees continue to over spend. They'll make more merchandise revenue for all MLB teams. Their tax will be spread out through lower payroll teams and they still don't win the big games. I'm sure team owners don't complain when their stadiums are full when the Yankees come to town. Don't you find it a bit hypocritical?

I'm not saying the Yankees don't have an advantage. They have an advantage, there's no doubt about it. But I would rather see teams mimic the Yankees or Red Sox and implement a plan of action that would maximize revenue, even if it only adds 20% to revenue. That, would be better then complaining about the Yankees. People always blame others first and cannot see their own problems. You see Blue Jays fans complaining, yet they have potential to rake in 4M fans a year. Yet they can't even compete with Boston who's city consists of 600k people. Who has the superior business plan?

Look within, solve that first. Then level they playing field with a fair revenue sharing program.

no because they raise the value for average players. teams must wait on there own players with the fear they will not be able to resign them because the yankees need a fourth OF or 3rd starter. yes the luxary tax helps but teams like the marlins and padres can truly only compete once a decade. as for the thought that when the yankees come to town they sell out. yes that is great for 3 to 6 games out of the 81 home games. imagine if they could put a good product on the field. look at milwaukee they put a good product on the field and the people come out. now that they will be average they will only fill when the top teams come through.

the bigger clubs are mimicking the smaller markets now. the red sox have taken on the philosophy of the marlins and tampa. they are building there team from the farm system. the biggest difference with the red sox is they can keep there players. the sad part of all this is in 5 years tampa will go back to being nothing when all these players start leaving for the bigger markets.

YankeeFan28
12-26-2008, 04:56 PM
no because they raise the value for average players. teams must wait on there own players with the fear they will not be able to resign them because the yankees need a fourth OF or 3rd starter. yes the luxary tax helps but teams like the marlins and padres can truly only compete once a decade. as for the thought that when the yankees come to town they sell out. yes that is great for 3 to 6 games out of the 81 home games. imagine if they could put a good product on the field. look at milwaukee they put a good product on the field and the people come out. now that they will be average they will only fill when the top teams come through.

the bigger clubs are mimicking the smaller markets now. the red sox have taken on the philosophy of the marlins and tampa. they are building there team from the farm system. the biggest difference with the red sox is they can keep there players. the sad part of all this is in 5 years tampa will go back to being nothing when all these players start leaving for the bigger markets.

Again, the Yankees are not the only ones raising values on average to above average players. The Yankees didn't give Juan Pierre or Gil Meche 10M a year. The Yankees have had a hand in it, but there have been plenty of teams that have helped. The reason why they did really doesn't matter.

Ragun
12-26-2008, 05:04 PM
why would the yankees be bad for baseball? its not their fault other teams wont spend money. this is coming from the jays fan. seriously whoever is hating on the yanks right now are just hating.

NYhighrollaz
12-26-2008, 05:05 PM
Then wouldn't the Yankees mistakes be good for baseball? Smaller markets can capitalize on revenue sharing and luxury tax while the Yankees fail and pay for it. let the Yankees continue to over spend. They'll make more merchandise revenue for all MLB teams. Their tax will be spread out through lower payroll teams and they still don't win the big games. I'm sure team owners don't complain when their stadiums are full when the Yankees come to town. Don't you find it a bit hypocritical?

I'm not saying the Yankees don't have an advantage. They have an advantage, there's no doubt about it. But I would rather see teams mimic the Yankees or Red Sox and implement a plan of action that would maximize revenue, even if it only adds 20% to revenue. That, would be better then complaining about the Yankees. People always blame others first and cannot see their own problems. You see Blue Jays fans complaining, yet they have potential to rake in 4M fans a year. Yet they can't even compete with Boston who's city consists of 600k people. Who has the superior business plan?

Look within, solve that first. Then level they playing field with a fair revenue sharing program.

Agreed above. I am getting a little tired of these fans who want to mock the yankees practically at every point of their existence ( Jeter is the worst shortstop, yankees dont make playoffs, they spend too much).

#1 The yankees help baseball by drawing revenue through the luxury tax system as well as drawing fans into the stadium. If the kansas city royals played the rangers, how many fans would show up, seriously? If the Yanks come to town, how many fans show up? That helps baseball.

#2 Don't people in here realize that it doesn't matter whether they spend money or not. Lower market value out there takes pride in developing their own players. You think Minnesota, Florida or Tampa Bay, EVEN Colorado are complaining about the yankees. The GM of the Brewers is an idiot because he offered ONLY 100M to sabathia when HE KNEW his market value was going to be higher. Then be moans and b*tches because "boo hoo thre Yankees stole him through money." if the brewers, as well as other teams "texas, Pitt, Kc, didn't have owners who pocketed money, and actually saved resources to buy players, maybe the reaction around baseball would be different.

NYhighrollaz
12-26-2008, 05:06 PM
Again, the Yankees are not the only ones raising values on average to above average players. The Yankees didn't give Juan Pierre or Gil Meche 10M a year. The Yankees have had a hand in it, but there have been plenty of teams that have helped. The reason why they did really doesn't matter.

Exactly. How's Barry Zito in san fran doing? :eyebrow:

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 05:11 PM
Again, the Yankees are not the only ones raising values on average to above average players. The Yankees didn't give Juan Pierre or Gil Meche 10M a year. The Yankees have had a hand in it, but there have been plenty of teams that have helped. The reason why they did really doesn't matter.

i guess in a nut shell even though other teams are better run organizations they can not compete because they can't afford to keep there players because higher market teams come in and over pay for average talent. yes smaller market teams come and make mistakes on players but the difference is they can not recoup like the yankees can. seattle over pays for beltre and they suffer. the yankees over pay on pavano and they go out and sign clemens and petitte. you can't tell me tampa, arizona, florida, padres are not better run organizations but they can only compete 2-3 years in a decade and then they fizzle back.

NYhighrollaz
12-26-2008, 05:17 PM
i guess in a nut shell even though other teams are better run organizations they can not compete because they can't afford to keep there players because higher market teams come in and over pay for average talent. yes smaller market teams come and make mistakes on players but the difference is they can not recoup like the yankees can. seattle over pays for beltre and they suffer. the yankees over pay on pavano and they go out and sign clemens and petitte. you can't tell me tampa, arizona, florida, padres are not better run organizations but they can only compete 2-3 years in a decade and then they fizzle back.

Minnesota? have they fizzled the past 5-6 seasons? Florida hasn't "fizzled the past few years at all. They have been in contention practically every season. and Arizona since they won the title has also been in contention fyi. Why don't you blame the owners of teams who aren't WILLING to pay their own guys?

If any owner with half a brain said "you know what, we want these guys back, if we need to overpay to keep them so the Yanks, Mets, Sox, Cubs of the world don't go after them, so be it." But do they? No. They pocket the money and keep a low payroll going and decide to develop their own players, which is fine, but it hurts the fans who anxiously await before the season ends if the owners will shell out money,

Blame the owners, not the Yankees. Better yet, blame MLB for allowing no salary cap. The Yanks are playing within the rules.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 05:20 PM
Agreed above. I am getting a little tired of these fans who want to mock the yankees practically at every point of their existence ( Jeter is the worst shortstop, yankees dont make playoffs, they spend too much).

#1 The yankees help baseball by drawing revenue through the luxury tax system as well as drawing fans into the stadium. If the kansas city royals played the rangers, how many fans would show up, seriously? If the Yanks come to town, how many fans show up? That helps baseball.

#2 Don't people in here realize that it doesn't matter whether they spend money or not. Lower market value out there takes pride in developing their own players. You think Minnesota, Florida or Tampa Bay, EVEN Colorado are complaining about the yankees. The GM of the Brewers is an idiot because he offered ONLY 100M to sabathia when HE KNEW his market value was going to be higher. Then be moans and b*tches because "boo hoo thre Yankees stole him through money." if the brewers, as well as other teams "texas, Pitt, Kc, didn't have owners who pocketed money, and actually saved resources to buy players, maybe the reaction around baseball would be different.

this is such an ignorant statement. go look up the cost of living in the US. How many fortune 500 companies are there in kansas city? if you can't sell luxury boxes you can get bug name players. that is where these big market teams make there money.

here is one thing that a lot of people miss. if there was a salary cap the yankees could spend all this money on scouting. that is what all these small market teams are doing. then you could have a great team you developed instead of going out and taking everyone elses talent. look at the sox or the yankees of the 90's that is what they did.

wildcat13
12-26-2008, 05:27 PM
the reason why other teams dont sign players for an exorbidant amount of money is...they arent worth it. plain and simple. this dooshbag scott boras, castrated athlete wannabe shows blinking charts and sends professional women to service the front offices and gets salaries millions of dollars over market...when their players play down to the level they ae capable of...guess what, jason giambi/carl pavano, even alex rodriguez...there is no trade value. never was, its a 401k plan to play in new york.

why dont the yankees win? its a retirement home for these guys who cut their engines, get drugs prescribed to alleviate the depression that have from underperforming and when the season is over they count their money...and never have to win!

its not their goal to win a world championship, its taking those steinbrenner fatties money and farting in their faces. easiest money to be had; those sucking steinclowners couldn't spot a pig from sarah palin. they believe everything they hear on sports radio, eat a bucket of lard and sign these idiots.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 05:27 PM
Minnesota? have they fizzled the past 5-6 seasons? Florida hasn't "fizzled the past few years at all. They have been in contention practically every season. and Arizona since they won the title has also been in contention fyi. Why don't you blame the owners of teams who aren't WILLING to pay their own guys?

If any owner with half a brain said "you know what, we want these guys back, if we need to overpay to keep them so the Yanks, Mets, Sox, Cubs of the world don't go after them, so be it." But do they? No. They pocket the money and keep a low payroll going and decide to develop their own players, which is fine, but it hurts the fans who anxiously await before the season ends if the owners will shell out money,

Blame the owners, not the Yankees. Better yet, blame MLB for allowing no salary cap. The Yanks are playing within the rules.

the reason these teams don't fizzle because they have players behind these other players to compete. they don't overpay for one player because one player doesn't make a team. that is why minnesota let hunter and santana go and still compete. they have good management that can develop players. something the yankees obviously can not do. i don't blame the yankees for spending money. i'm just simple stating that they are in fact bad for baseball

NYhighrollaz
12-26-2008, 05:30 PM
this is such an ignorant statement. go look up the cost of living in the US. How many fortune 500 companies are there in kansas city? if you can't sell luxury boxes you can get bug name players. that is where these big market teams make there money.

here is one thing that a lot of people miss. if there was a salary cap the yankees could spend all this money on scouting. that is what all these small market teams are doing. then you could have a great team you developed instead of going out and taking everyone elses talent. look at the sox or the yankees of the 90's that is what they did.

Ignorant, or you don't understand that a few smaller market teams have overpaid for mediocre to above average talant. Did san fran not overpay for Zito? KC for Gil meche?

And you know that there are no fortune 500 companies in KC? Digital Printing Services, Don Thompson- DC Ellis, Ruco products? These are major companies. And, if you want to talk marketing, understand KC has a population WAY SMALLER than NY, Bos, Chicago, etc. Kinda has to do with population. Perhaps organizations need to look at better markets in order to acquire monetary value. It's called capitalism. More people = more value to start francises, big business, etc.

Maybe MLB needs to "scout" baseball economical proportions a whole lot better. I'm sure las vegas would love a francise.

NYhighrollaz
12-26-2008, 05:36 PM
the reason these teams don't fizzle because they have players behind these other players to compete. they don't overpay for one player because one player doesn't make a team. that is why minnesota let hunter and santana go and still compete. they have good management that can develop players. something the yankees obviously can not do. i don't blame the yankees for spending money. i'm just simple stating that they are in fact bad for baseball

#1)How are they bad if they haven't won anything in 8 YEARS?
#2)How are they bad if they pay a luxury tax to smaller market teams raising revenue?
#3 How are they bad if attendance increases every year when the Yanks come to town and people fill up more seats?
#4 How are they bad if other teams take pride in developing their own players and take pride in using a youth movement ro get to a world series and potentially win *Arizona in 2001, Florida in 2003, Houston in 2005 Colorado in 2007, Tampa Bay in 2008?

Your thoughts I leave to u.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 05:40 PM
Ignorant, or you don't understand that a few smaller market teams have overpaid for mediocre to above average talant. Did san fran not overpay for Zito? KC for Gil meche?

And you know that there are no fortune 500 companies in KC? Digital Printing Services, Don Thompson- DC Ellis, Ruco products? These are major companies. And, if you want to talk marketing, understand KC has a population WAY SMALLER than NY, Bos, Chicago, etc. Kinda has to do with population. Perhaps organizations need to look at better markets in order to acquire monetary value. It's called capitalism. More people = more value to start francises, big business, etc.

Maybe MLB needs to "scout" baseball economical proportions a whole lot better. I'm sure las vegas would love a francise.

you are correct zito was a bad signing no question. meche was not the worst signing for what he has done. the problem is they make a mistake and can't correct it. the yankees sign pavano and it is only a blip. what team could sign pavano to that money and he pitch 4 games in 3 years and still be competitive? can you imagine if meche got hurt and never played? they would be done. can you name the fortune 500 companies in NY? so we have to move teams with great histories because of the yankees? that is the most selfish statement and just proved my point a hundred times over

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 05:44 PM
#1)How are they bad if they haven't won anything in 8 YEARS?
#2)How are they bad if they pay a luxury tax to smaller market teams raising revenue?
#3 How are they bad if attendance increases every year when the Yanks come to town and people fill up more seats?
#4 How are they bad if other teams take pride in developing their own players and take pride in using a youth movement ro get to a world series and potentially win *Arizona in 2001, Florida in 2003, Houston in 2005 Colorado in 2007, Tampa Bay in 2008?

Your thoughts I leave to u.

1) because they are driving up the cost of average players so the royals have to pay 10 million for meche
2)it's not bad but still doesn't even the field
3)that is great for 3-6 games out of 81 home games
4)because teams with great management can only be relavent 2-3 years a decade what about the other 7-8 years?

NYhighrollaz
12-26-2008, 05:47 PM
you are correct zito was a bad signing no question. meche was not the worst signing for what he has done. the problem is they make a mistake and can't correct it. the yankees sign pavano and it is only a blip. what team could sign pavano to that money and he pitch 4 games in 3 years and still be competitive? can you imagine if meche got hurt and never played? they would be done. can you name the fortune 500 companies in NY? so we have to move teams with great histories because of the yankees? that is the most selfish statement and just proved my point a hundred times over

Then sign your own players. How hard is that? these owners pocket their money like crazy. So not giving sabathia another 80 million hurts your team HOW? YOu give a small market team "the brewers" an ace for the future. Why even create a value KNOWING other teams will bid much higher for CC. Come on, you have to know that?

Oakland and Minnesota have been very competitive with getting rid of high caliber players and STILL winning division titles as well as chances to win the world series. I never said we HAVE TO. But to sit here, and whine about smaller market teams never getting top players because owners sit on their fannies and don't want to bulge higher offers is absurd.

Baseball is a business. Money inpowers all unfortunately. And if these owners don't want to spend a little extra to keep other players, KNOWING the Yankees will go after them prior is THEIR problem, not the yankees.

bigmac8675
12-26-2008, 07:05 PM
The Yankees are ridiculous... because of their spending spree's and high payroll it drives me away from MLB even more. If baseball doesn't do something soon (i.e. a salary cap, revue sharing, etc.) I may just stop watching completely.

Rio40
12-26-2008, 07:53 PM
yankees asking the city for money on their stadium then spending over 400 mil on 3 players is like a charity for a disease asking for money and spending it on themselves instead of the cause. Its messed up. And while everyteam asks the city for money for new stadiums the only one that will ever go spending crazy after that is the Yankees. I mean 423 million or something is a little rediculous. They signed 3 of the top 5 free agents so far and will prob add someone else before all is said and done.

YankeeFan28
12-26-2008, 08:00 PM
yankees asking the city for money on their stadium then spending over 400 mil on 3 players is like a charity for a disease asking for money and spending it on themselves instead of the cause. Its messed up. And while everyteam asks the city for money for new stadiums the only one that will ever go spending crazy after that is the Yankees. I mean 423 million or something is a little rediculous. They signed 3 of the top 5 free agents so far and will prob add someone else before all is said and done.

You mean on bonds that they're going to have to pay back to the city?

Most cities pay for most of the stadium. The Yankees and Mets are financing most of it on their own.

Ewagner
12-26-2008, 08:17 PM
i have no issue with teams asking for bonds because in reality the city is going to make a killing off the new stadiums. people are going to come for the soul purpose of seeing the new stadiums. i believe with most new stadiums you expect a 15%-25% increase in sales. with two new stadiums that needs to jump at least 20%-35%

BILLYBALL
12-26-2008, 08:36 PM
Yeah, A $170mm offer from Red Sox is fair play, but a $180mm offer from the YANKEES is the end of decency as we know it. Right - SO KEEP WHINNING RED SOX FANS

LeoGetz
12-26-2008, 08:39 PM
You mean on bonds that they're going to have to pay back to the city?

Most cities pay for most of the stadium. The Yankees and Mets are financing most of it on their own.

Do most cities have the IRS considering a proposal that would block the Yankees from getting any more tax-exempt bonds? Not many teams out there that build new stadiums have questions of real estate fraud, but those allegations are just from a bunch of Yankee haters IMHO.


Yeah, A $170mm offer from Red Sox is fair play, but a $180mm offer from the YANKEES is the end of decency as we know it. Right - SO KEEP WINNING RED SOX FANS

I think you mean whining, not winning.

yanksforlife
12-26-2008, 08:52 PM
The Yankees are ridiculous... because of their spending spree's and high payroll it drives me away from MLB even more. If baseball doesn't do something soon (i.e. a salary cap, revue sharing, etc.) I may just stop watching completely.

yeah cus you're $0 contribution to the yanks means a lot...

Tragedy
12-27-2008, 11:17 AM
#1)How are they bad if they haven't won anything in 8 YEARS?
#2)How are they bad if they pay a luxury tax to smaller market teams raising revenue?
#3 How are they bad if attendance increases every year when the Yanks come to town and people fill up more seats?
#4 How are they bad if other teams take pride in developing their own players and take pride in using a youth movement ro get to a world series and potentially win *Arizona in 2001, Florida in 2003, Houston in 2005 Colorado in 2007, Tampa Bay in 2008?

Your thoughts I leave to u.
Luxury tax goes to MLB, not the smaller market teams. That would be the revenue sharing program. I've seen people get that mixed up a bunch already.