PDA

View Full Version : Should Curry move AI to the bench?



BkOriginalOne
12-21-2008, 06:23 PM
When will Curry make this lineup change?

Iverson is playing about 38 mins a game for a 19.0ppg on .435% shooting. For Iverson, this is extremely unproductive.

Stuckey off the bench is getting 8.7 ppg, 4.1 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1.0 spg on .404% shooting. As a starter he averages, 13.0 ppg, 7.3 apg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 spg on .519% and .571% from 3.

Let's face it, playing hamilton at SF helps the defense as much as the Stuckey Iverson backourt helps the defense (see what Bibby did last night). how are the pistons supposed to be elite if they their mismatched from positions 1-3 on any given night.
Solution:

Pg - Stuckey
Sg - Hamilton
Sf - Prince
Pf - Johnson/Maxiel
C - Wallace
Bench:
Pg - Iverson
Sg - Afflalo
Sf - Herrmann
Pf - Mcdyess/Maxiel/Johnson
C - K. Brown/Mcdyess

The second lineup seems thin - but it can be easily upgraded if a starter such as prince or wallace stays on the floor.

With the bench this way, Iverson can finish ever quater, abusing the tired starters and weak bench players. It also lowers his minutes (he's 33) and possibly raises his productivity.
I predict, if AI came off the bench and played about 33mpg he could still get his current 19ppg per game. In fact, I think he could get something like:
23ppg, 5apg, 3.5rpg, 2.0spg .470% fg .375% from 3.

Sounds hopeful, maybe - but i think its possible, especially as the season progresses and they get more acculamated to his the system. With this role, the pistons start games better - setting a more defensive tone, AI gets 6th man/all star (1st time in history?), and most likely leads the team in scoring off the bench. All at the cose of 5mpg from Iverson - what a Win, Win!

JayW_1023
12-21-2008, 06:28 PM
I think it'll make the Pistons a better team if he has the Ben Gordon/Jason Terry role.

But AI won't accept a bench role.

JordansBulls
12-21-2008, 06:40 PM
If the Pistons are not planning on keeping him after this year then they might as well.

JobaTheHeat62
12-21-2008, 07:12 PM
the fact this question is being asks proves how awful a trade this was. i was stunned when the pistons did this deal, and now they are paying for it.

zambo4president
12-21-2008, 07:17 PM
No.

kingjanjic
12-21-2008, 07:48 PM
iverson is a star player not a bench player, put stucky back on the bench, n that solves your problem, n tell iverson to be a star n score more cuz he can, his just trying to be a role player right now

BkOriginalOne
12-21-2008, 08:05 PM
it's not about being a star player or being a bench player.
1st of all, they're are bench players, ginobli, terry, gordon, jr smith, odom, artest, ak47 who come off the bench and are better than some starters.

It's about winning. WInning a championship.
The pistons are too bad defensively with iverson in their lineup. Stuckey's potential is being sqaunder for a bad defensive lineup featuring AI - lowering his value, burning himself out at 38mpg, torching teams up for 19ppg!
Solution: AI was brought here for go to offense. Some Heart. Some Drive. WIll. A Spark.

Where does a team look for these qualities - a 6th man. Simple. The answer should be a 6th man.

kvrnm
12-21-2008, 08:11 PM
AI is no Billups, and it shows.... terrible trade for a selfish chucker.

blacknell
12-21-2008, 08:20 PM
whatever it takes to win they should have kept billups he fit in more

BkOriginalOne
12-21-2008, 09:05 PM
I think its a mistake to look at this trade as if the Pistons lost Billups.
In thier eyes, Stuckey was a starting caliber pg.
That means they had faith that their lineup:
Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Wallce, Mcdyess - could compete. Of course, they wanted someting else, some more fire power - which is what I believe Dumars had in mind when making the trade.
Think of it this way, If Billups had been traded for a different offesive guy such as -

Ginobli, Jrich, Gordon, Jr Smith, Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, Terry... ALL of these guys could score 20 a night starting for the pistons.
But with their lineup, as listed above, each of these players would be better utilized if they came off the bench. The pistons already have a solid lineup with stuckey starting pg.
Why not have a 6th man wild card in the pocket such as, Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, Ben Gordon. Why Not better? - why not greater? - why not Allen Iverson?

When Curry comes to this conclusion, the pistons will pick up.

ivylleague1
12-21-2008, 09:09 PM
The problem is in the coaching staff. AI detractors are infiltrating the team and are using the coaching staff to disrupt his game. Some coaches are equipped to coach SUper / Megastars like Iverson some are not !!!! He is still the best player in the NBA, and if anyone wants to make a coherent argument on that do so.

dre1990
12-21-2008, 09:18 PM
i think it'll make the pistons a better team if he has the ben gordon/jason terry role.

But ai won't accept a bench role.

aggreed

Chronz
12-21-2008, 09:39 PM
it's not about being a star player or being a bench player.
1st of all, they're are bench players, ginobli, terry, gordon, jr smith, odom, artest, ak47 who come off the bench and are better than some starters.

It's about winning. WInning a championship.
The pistons are too bad defensively with iverson in their lineup. Stuckey's potential is being sqaunder for a bad defensive lineup featuring AI - lowering his value, burning himself out at 38mpg, torching teams up for 19ppg!
Solution: AI was brought here for go to offense. Some Heart. Some Drive. WIll. A Spark.

Where does a team look for these qualities - a 6th man. Simple. The answer should be a 6th man.

Well said

Blue Tiger
12-21-2008, 09:49 PM
Yes he should because Allen Iverson have already ruined the Pistons already and he is just adding more bad news to the city of Detroit.

kingjanjic
12-21-2008, 09:50 PM
it's not about being a star player or being a bench player.
1st of all, they're are bench players, ginobli, terry, gordon, jr smith, odom, artest, ak47 who come off the bench and are better than some starters.

It's about winning. WInning a championship.
The pistons are too bad defensively with iverson in their lineup. Stuckey's potential is being sqaunder for a bad defensive lineup featuring AI - lowering his value, burning himself out at 38mpg, torching teams up for 19ppg!
Solution: AI was brought here for go to offense. Some Heart. Some Drive. WIll. A Spark.

Where does a team look for these qualities - a 6th man. Simple. The answer should be a 6th man.

but............................... iverson isnt the missing piece for detroit to win a championship, he is just a large expiring salary, detroit has NO intention to win a championship this year and thats clear by adding iverson to a team that spreads out its scoring, iverson is a player that should be on a team that needs 25 to 28 points a game, detroit dosnt need that as they spread there scoring

so y waste your time by putting iverson on the bench, just tell him to score more, im sure curry has told him to be a role player and not take over games cuz this isnt normal iverson play, he is clearly tryna fit a role that dosnt belong to a star like him

n i dont give a *** iverson is no 6th man, he is a starting guard on any team in the NBA, tats like asking kobe, lebron, tmac, mello, nash, howard, garnett, pierce n etc to come off the bench, how can u ask that?

ntat
12-21-2008, 09:55 PM
When will Curry make this lineup change?

Iverson is playing about 38 mins a game for a 19.0ppg on .435% shooting. For Iverson, this is extremely unproductive.

Stuckey off the bench is getting 8.7 ppg, 4.1 apg, 2.6 rpg, 1.0 spg on .404% shooting. As a starter he averages, 13.0 ppg, 7.3 apg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 spg on .519% and .571% from 3.

Let's face it, playing hamilton at SF helps the defense as much as the Stuckey Iverson backourt helps the defense (see what Bibby did last night). how are the pistons supposed to be elite if they their mismatched from positions 1-3 on any given night.
Solution:

Pg - Stuckey
Sg - Hamilton
Sf - Prince
Pf - Johnson/Maxiel
C - Wallace
Bench:
Pg - Iverson
Sg - Afflalo
Sf - Herrmann
Pf - Mcdyess/Maxiel/Johnson
C - K. Brown/Mcdyess

The second lineup seems thin - but it can be easily upgraded if a starter such as prince or wallace stays on the floor.

With the bench this way, Iverson can finish ever quater, abusing the tired starters and weak bench players. It also lowers his minutes (he's 33) and possibly raises his productivity.
I predict, if AI came off the bench and played about 33mpg he could still get his current 19ppg per game. In fact, I think he could get something like:
23ppg, 5apg, 3.5rpg, 2.0spg .470% fg .375% from 3.

Sounds hopeful, maybe - but i think its possible, especially as the season progresses and they get more acculamated to his the system. With this role, the pistons start games better - setting a more defensive tone, AI gets 6th man/all star (1st time in history?), and most likely leads the team in scoring off the bench. All at the cose of 5mpg from Iverson - what a Win, Win!

I love ridiculous stuf like this! How did u come up with ur predictions for iverson's bench stats? All the way down to his 3 point % at 37 and a half! hahaha u must be a proffesional or something

ivylleague1
12-21-2008, 10:03 PM
Well said



Poor analysis. poorly conceptualized and not based on facts. AI took a team to the NBA final after defeating players like Ray Allen, Big Dog, Cassel[/B[B]], Vince Carter, etc. Defense was never a problem !!!!!! He led the league in scoring and amonst the leaders in steals (One of the major indices of defense for guards, his detractors would say that he gambles, that he plays the passing lanes, that he has long arms etc, none of which has any validity to it, because the videos speak otherwise). The coach and AI detractors should let Iverson be Iverson. Pistons should play the way they played to beat the Lakers earlier this season. They looked fantastic !!!!

ivylleague1
12-21-2008, 10:18 PM
but............................... iverson isnt the missing piece for detroit to win a championship, he is just a large expiring salary, detroit has NO intention to win a championship this year and thats clear by adding iverson to a team that spreads out its scoring, iverson is a player that should be on a team that needs 25 to 28 points a game, detroit dosnt need that as they spread there scoring

so y waste your time by putting iverson on the bench, just tell him to score more, im sure curry has told him to be a role player and not take over games cuz this isnt normal iverson play, he is clearly tryna fit a role that dosnt belong to a star like him

n i dont give a *** iverson is no 6th man, he is a starting guard on any team in the NBA, tats like asking kobe, lebron, tmac, mello, nash, howard, garnett, pierce n etc to come off the bench, how can u ask that?



You are an intelligent person !!! I award you an A grade for your reasoning. Iverson is a Superdupa star in any Baasketball league in the world.

SteveNash
12-21-2008, 10:26 PM
I think it'll make the Pistons a better team if he has the Ben Gordon/Jason Terry role.

But AI won't accept a bench role.

Pretty much. It's sickening to see Stuckey be so much better than AI yet AI still gets his own way with Curry compromising the rest of the players all to accommodate AI. Stuckey did a damn good job on Johnson when he was playing him, yet AI sits their and gets abused by Mike Bibby. Stuckey leads the Pistons back and AI tries to flop and injures himself.

Get him off the team, now.

Chronz
12-21-2008, 10:30 PM
Poor analysis. poorly conceptualized and not based on facts. AI took a team to the NBA final after defeating players like Ray Allen, Big Dog, Cassel[/B[B]], Vince Carter, etc. Defense was never a problem !!!!!! He led the league in scoring and amonst the leaders in steals (One of the major indices of defense for guards, his detractors would say that he gambles, that he plays the passing lanes, that he has long arms etc, none of which has any validity to it, because the videos speak otherwise). The coach and AI detractors should let Iverson be Iverson. Pistons should play the way they played to beat the Lakers earlier this season. They looked fantastic !!!!

AI had the best team in the conference when it was at its weakest, he was suppose to make the finals that year.

Defense has long been one of the biggest problems for the team that inherits AI. To mask his weaknesses defensively theyve always had to mismatch players. He couldnt run the offense so Stuckey had to start, RIPs scoring and Tay's D, are too valuable to place on the bench so everyone had to slide down a position so now everyone aside from Sheed is undersized.

I think you need to understand that the best way for AI to be AI would be to let him come off the bench, Tayshaun can run the offense in spurts but its not the best way to use him, so one things for sure, either AI or Rip needs to be the 6th man, it should be the lesser of the 2 defenders.

The Pistons are lucky to be 14-11 , they have the 15th ranked offense along with a 17th ranked defense. Thats usually a sign of a .500 team and not surprisingly their scoring margin is that of a .500 team. All this mind you coming after a 6th and 4th finish just a year ago. The only thing thats changed since then has been Billups to AI and a few games from McDyess.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
12-21-2008, 10:31 PM
I don't think this would solve much. AI would just complain.

JayW_1023
12-21-2008, 10:35 PM
Great players have proven they can win in any situation. Right now, AI has yet to prove that. Simple math.

He should look at how guys like Kevin McHale and James Worthy have accepted bench roles in the twilight of their careers and only added to their legacy.

SteveNash
12-21-2008, 10:44 PM
That's because AI is not a great player. Never has been one, never will be one.

ivylleague1
12-21-2008, 11:02 PM
AI had the best team in the conference when it was at its weakest, he was suppose to make the finals that year.

Defense has long been one of the biggest problems for the team that inherits AI. To mask his weaknesses defensively theyve always had to mismatch players. He couldnt run the offense so Stuckey had to start, RIPs scoring and Tay's D, are too valuable to place on the bench so everyone had to slide down a position so now everyone aside from Sheed is undersized.

I think you need to understand that the best way for AI to be AI would be to let him come off the bench, Tayshaun can run the offense in spurts but its not the best way to use him, so one things for sure, either AI or Rip needs to be the 6th man, it should be the lesser of the 2 defenders.

The Pistons are lucky to be 14-11 , they have the 15th ranked offense along with a 17th ranked defense. Thats usually a sign of a .500 team and not surprisingly their scoring margin is that of a .500 team. All this mind you coming after a 6th and 4th finish just a year ago. The only thing thats changed since then has been Billups to AI and a few games from McDyess.



Look Chronz, You are wrong!!!! Iverson does play defense. Detroit,s problem is not their defense. It is their offense. Their offense was unreliable when Billups was in Detroit. Defense can win a lot of games for you but, you must complement it with a very good offense that has a great scorer to win a championship. As I said Pistons should use the offense that defeated the Lakers more often. In order words Sturkey should start sometimes, and sometimes come off the bench.

Chronz
12-21-2008, 11:36 PM
Look Chronz, You are wrong!!!! Iverson does play defense. Detroit,s problem is not their defense. It is their offense. Their offense was unreliable when Billups was in Detroit. Defense can win a lot of games for you but, you must complement it with a very good offense that has a great scorer to win a championship. As I said Pistons should use the offense that defeated the Lakers more often. In order words Sturkey should start sometimes, and sometimes come off the bench.

Iverson doesnt play defense, hence his teams always had to hide his shortcomings. The offense and defense got worse with AI. Pistons should bench AI so that he can be himself without taking away from everyone else.

cambovenzi
12-21-2008, 11:41 PM
AI was brought in to score points.
ask any mediocre lesser player to score 20+ points a game, while drawing as much attention as AI, and their FG% will drop too.

MrBloop
12-21-2008, 11:42 PM
Now how would Joe Dumars and the Pistons look if they sent AI to the bench??? Close this BS!

Why even speculate about something that we all know aint happening, unless Iverson decides to miss a few more practices.

No disrespect thread starter, but YOUR BETTER THAN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

Chronz
12-21-2008, 11:49 PM
AI was brought in to score points.
ask any mediocre lesser player to score 20+ points a game, while drawing as much attention as AI, and their FG% will drop too.

Heres the problem, they are asking less from AI and his efficiency is dropping. This shouldnt be happening, he should be finding ways to be more effective with a decreased role like Bostons BIG3 did when they clicked up. He may be the kind of player that can only play effectively if he makes everyone around him worse, in other words a cancer.

MrBloop
12-21-2008, 11:54 PM
Really, the Pistons are looking like an aging team in transition right now. Dumars knows this, thats why he dealt Billups while his value was still high and get less years in return with Iverson.

They still have some young up and comers, but they aren't impact players yet.

Look at the teams in the East now, its no longer a cakewalk...they're just not that good anymore.

They aint gonna be going through a bunch of young teams to face the fckn overrated Nets or some pathetic "pre-big three" scrub of a Celtics team in the playoffs.

Those days are over.

BkOriginalOne
12-21-2008, 11:57 PM
n i dont give a *** iverson is no 6th man, he is a starting guard on any team in the NBA, tats like asking kobe, lebron, tmac, mello, nash, howard, garnett, pierce n etc to come off the bench, how can u ask that?

Thats where the problem is. Your assuming that starters have more value than bench players. the 6th man of the year winners are often more valuable than other NBA starters at their positions.
Right now: AI is average 19 a game on poor shooting.
With this new role:
AI averages 23, 5, 4, 2.0 spg
-6th man of the year
-All star appearance
-Increased Value in the offseason
-Possible Title Run (Teams get hot, Injuries)

Why not make the move if it's better for AI's respect around the league (it's only half of a season, really, and it shows other teams he's willing to do whatever to win) and The Pistons win games making their team more attractive to free agents (they have cap room after AI comes off the books)

Sounds like, WIN, WIN for Iverson and Pistons

Chronz
12-22-2008, 10:25 PM
Pretty much. It's sickening to see Stuckey be so much better than AI yet AI still gets his own way with Curry compromising the rest of the players all to accommodate AI. Stuckey did a damn good job on Johnson when he was playing him, yet AI sits their and gets abused by Mike Bibby. Stuckey leads the Pistons back and AI tries to flop and injures himself.

Get him off the team, now.

Is it true Curry openly trashed Iversons defense to the media? I cant find anything on it but Ive seen it referenced a few times.

COLH
12-23-2008, 12:48 AM
yeah Curry said that AI was ball watching and it resulted into Mike Bibby shooting 3 pointers. Iverson agreed with Curry.