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Raps18-19 Champ
12-18-2008, 11:31 PM
I hear alot of Raps fans saying the raps need this and raps need that and raps need to trade for this guy.

Raps need more than 1 thing right now

I want to know what the raps need the most to win

I say a good coach that preaches defence like Avery Johnson or Stan Van Gundy. I think the Raps also need a coach who would actually use our twin towers to produce at the same time instead of 1 only doing something while the other one is doing nothing on the floor or is on the bench.

I know the raps need a tough big or scoring wing but i think we can produce with our current wings. Parker and Kapono can atleast average 11 each and Graham and Moon can average 8 each. And Bargs can get 4 points when he plays SF for like 10 mins. Thats 42 points right there. Then you have Bosh averaging 25 ppg, Oneal can average atleast 15 ppg and Bargs atleast 10ppg. Which is 50 ppg if you cant add. Then Calderon can average atlease 10-15 ppg which would equal to 100-105 ppg.

I think we can last with those players if we had a new coach who knows how to use a rotation. I know there will be a logjam for mins at SF/SG but Joey and Moon play some PF and they only need about 20-28 ppg to produce those number. And the coach would know that it wouldnt be wise playing 2 shooters(parker, Kapono) and 2 slashers(Joey, Moon) at the same time like what Triano does sometimes. The new coach would also know when to take out the a guy when he hasnt defended, or scored in like 4 mins or so.

We don't need a major trade. We just need a New and BETTER coach and maybe a couple of minor trades to help increase depth incase of injury or improve toughness or wing scoring by a little(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~635~1023~1828~2004~2387&teams=20~20~20~28~28~28&te=&cash= anyone?Improves toughness, wing scoring and shooting, vet pg, toguh rebounder.)

What do you guys think Raps biggest need is

JayW_1023
12-18-2008, 11:42 PM
They're paying the price thinking JO was going to bring them toughness. JO? LOL. He is even more of a jump shooter than Bosh. He looks clumsy in post ups and has lost his explosiveness. Only defensively he is still somewhat useful. For the rest he has Chris Webberitis: the big man disease that makes them scared of the paint as they get older.


Perhaps they should trade JO for Sheed straight up.

superkegger
12-18-2008, 11:43 PM
they need a wing player to take pressure off calderon and bosh.

GCOOKIE7
12-18-2008, 11:49 PM
can we get an all of the above option plz?

ink
12-18-2008, 11:56 PM
JO? LOL. He is even more of a jump shooter than Bosh. He looks clumsy in post ups and has lost his explosiveness.

Exactly what I said the first time I saw him play this year.

====

To the OP: a new coach is not the biggest need at all. Triano is an extremely underrated coach. He is not the problem.


they need a wing player to take pressure off calderon and bosh.

Bingo.

Kyben36
12-18-2008, 11:58 PM
would you guys be interesed in a trade like Deng and Gordon for JO and a first. Gives you wing D. a scoring SG, and gets JO off your hands.

pd7631
12-19-2008, 12:00 AM
I said new coach, there's way too much talent and shooting on this team to be 5 games below .500 or whatever they are. They need to find some kind of identity, because when I watch them play I don't know what they're trying to do.

heyman321
12-19-2008, 12:02 AM
They wouldn't trade O'Neal if they just got him and he is gonna expire anyways. We need wing defense and wing scoring. They need to tell Kapono to just shoot 3s. If he shoots 2s, bench him. Trade Parker, Moon, and Bargnani for a slasher and scorer.

JayW_1023
12-19-2008, 12:08 AM
would you guys be interesed in a trade like Deng and Gordon for JO and a first. Gives you wing D. a scoring SG, and gets JO off your hands.

The Bulls would be giving up waaayyyy too much.

Since O Neal isn't a consistent low post threat anymore I doubt he will help the Bulls much as far as the filling interior scoring role. Meanwhile Gordon is meshing well with Rose in the backcourt and showed signs of changing his mind and actually resigning with the Bulls.

If you have to trade one guy for JO, trade Hinrich...he is scrappy and tough...two elements the Raps sorely lack. And Chicago will get some size, rebounding and weakside help...at least JO still provides those needs fairly consistently still.

Kaptain Kanada
12-19-2008, 12:13 AM
I hear alot of Raps fans saying the raps need this and raps need that and raps need to trade for this guy.

Raps need more than 1 thing right now

I want to know what the raps need the most to win

I say a good coach that preaches defence like Avery Johnson or Stan Van Gundy. I think the Raps also need a coach who would actually use our twin towers to produce at the same time instead of 1 only doing something while the other one is doing nothing on the floor or is on the bench.

I know the raps need a tough big or scoring wing but i think we can produce with our current wings. Parker and Kapono can atleast average 11 each and Graham and Moon can average 8 each. And Bargs can get 4 points when he plays SF for like 10 mins. Thats 42 points right there. Then you have Bosh averaging 25 ppg, Oneal can average atleast 15 ppg and Bargs atleast 10ppg. Which is 50 ppg if you cant add. Then Calderon can average atlease 10-15 ppg which would equal to 100-105 ppg.

I think we can last with those players if we had a new coach who knows how to use a rotation. I know there will be a logjam for mins at SF/SG but Joey and Moon play some PF and they only need about 20-28 ppg to produce those number. And the coach would know that it wouldnt be wise playing 2 shooters(parker, Kapono) and 2 slashers(Joey, Moon) at the same time like what Triano does sometimes. The new coach would also know when to take out the a guy when he hasnt defended, or scored in like 4 mins or so.

We don't need a major trade. We just need a New and BETTER coach and maybe a couple of minor trades to help increase depth incase of injury or improve toughness or wing scoring by a little(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~635~1023~1828~2004~2387&teams=20~20~20~28~28~28&te=&cash= anyone?Improves toughness, wing scoring and shooting, vet pg, toguh rebounder.)

What do you guys think Raps biggest need is



Avery is a 'good' coach??? Riiiiight... that would be a downgrade.

I think the team has what they need on the roster, you should have had 'effort' as an option. The boys need to suck it up and play hard for an entire game.

pd7631
12-19-2008, 12:26 AM
I posted this trade in the Raptors and Sixers forums, but I'll put it here to get a broader view on the idea....



http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2004~2386~2987~2010~1023&teams=28~28~20~20~20&te=&cash=


We get arguably the best shooter in the league and Bargnani who would be a nice piece off the bench. Losing Iggy allows Thad to step in as the full time SF and we could go small with Lou as the starting 2 guard. Another positive with this trade would be that we could cut some salary and if things went south we could try and dump as much salary as we could by trading Sammy and maybe Reggie to gear up for 2010....

Lineups:

PG-Andre Miller----------------------------------------------Jose Calderon
SG-Lou Williams---------------------------------------------Anthony Parker
SF-Thaddeus Young-----------------------------------------Andre Iguodala
PF-Elton BRand----------------------------------------------Chris Bosh
C-Sammy D--------------------------------------------------Jermaine O'neal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BN-Jason Kapono--------------------------------------------Jamario Moon
BN-Andrea Bargnani-----------------------------------------Willie Green
BN-Kareem Rush---------------------------------------------Joey Graham
BN-u guys know the rest....-----------------------------------the rest

I'm sure i'll get blasted for this idea, but whatever.....i like it

superkegger
12-19-2008, 12:35 AM
It wouldn't be a bad trade persay, but you're trading an almost all star wing for two bench guys. That looks bad, and while it could work, my biggest problem with it is, I wouldnt like trading with in a division like that.

marvILLous
12-19-2008, 12:44 AM
iggy for bargnani and kapono IN A HEARTBEAT

JordansBulls
12-19-2008, 09:02 AM
I hear alot of Raps fans saying the raps need this and raps need that and raps need to trade for this guy.

Raps need more than 1 thing right now

I want to know what the raps need the most to win

I say a good coach that preaches defence like Avery Johnson or Stan Van Gundy. I think the Raps also need a coach who would actually use our twin towers to produce at the same time instead of 1 only doing something while the other one is doing nothing on the floor or is on the bench.

I know the raps need a tough big or scoring wing but i think we can produce with our current wings. Parker and Kapono can atleast average 11 each and Graham and Moon can average 8 each. And Bargs can get 4 points when he plays SF for like 10 mins. Thats 42 points right there. Then you have Bosh averaging 25 ppg, Oneal can average atleast 15 ppg and Bargs atleast 10ppg. Which is 50 ppg if you cant add. Then Calderon can average atlease 10-15 ppg which would equal to 100-105 ppg.

I think we can last with those players if we had a new coach who knows how to use a rotation. I know there will be a logjam for mins at SF/SG but Joey and Moon play some PF and they only need about 20-28 ppg to produce those number. And the coach would know that it wouldnt be wise playing 2 shooters(parker, Kapono) and 2 slashers(Joey, Moon) at the same time like what Triano does sometimes. The new coach would also know when to take out the a guy when he hasnt defended, or scored in like 4 mins or so.

We don't need a major trade. We just need a New and BETTER coach and maybe a couple of minor trades to help increase depth incase of injury or improve toughness or wing scoring by a little(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2987~635~1023~1828~2004~2387&teams=20~20~20~28~28~28&te=&cash= anyone?Improves toughness, wing scoring and shooting, vet pg, toguh rebounder.)

What do you guys think Raps biggest need is

Honestly they need JO to play well and they someone like Vince Carter back. If that was the case they are easily contenders.

jimbobjarree
12-19-2008, 10:18 AM
a good team maybe?

JJ81
12-19-2008, 10:19 AM
A new team

Nexus
12-19-2008, 12:26 PM
would you guys be interesed in a trade like Deng and Gordon for JO and a first. Gives you wing D. a scoring SG, and gets JO off your hands.

JO is not the problem. I'd hate to see us without his interior D behind Calderon and without his rebounds (Bosh would be about the only one getting them). His 21 million coming off the books in 2010 might be THE most important factor in signing Bosh and someone else that will entice Bosh to stay.

Giving up a first is another thing we really shouldn't be doing since we might finish fairly low in the standings.

Deng and Gordon are valuable players that address our needs, no doubt. It would be something to consider. But we're looking at a struggling Deng and a selfish Gordon.

tonyd3b54
12-19-2008, 12:46 PM
the raptors dont need any new players or anything... what the raptors need is to grow some balls... theyre soft as puddy and play no defense at all... that game against boston was our easiest game of the season...

jmoney23
12-19-2008, 12:56 PM
I like the idea that we get OKC tonight, hopefully that can swing their momentum and give them some confidence....

torontosports10
12-19-2008, 01:18 PM
ya beating the thunder will make me feel better about the team...

ink
12-19-2008, 01:46 PM
Honestly they need JO to play well and they someone like Vince Carter back. If that was the case they are easily contenders.

Exactly. They need wing players. With no real threat from the 2 or 3 except jump shooters, it's like playing with one arm tied behind their backs. And JO is not the same JO yet despite the effort he is putting out.

CELTICS4LYFE
12-19-2008, 02:31 PM
none of the above!!! they need a leader

VCaintdead17
12-19-2008, 04:44 PM
The raps need someone expsplosive. Who cans fill it up in points. I think they have excellent trade bait in bargnani considering hes a first round pick. I think they need another offensive threat. Maybe something like this http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=165~2987~635&teams=28~9~9&te=&cash=

Jonathan2323
12-19-2008, 04:46 PM
they need Shawn Marion

Chronz
12-19-2008, 06:03 PM
Ive been really really disappointed with the Raps and Jermaine, seems like every time I wanna check him out I see him limping or getting that knee hurt someway. He must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

Last year the Raps overall record dropped from the year before but they were still an improved team, they had a scoring margin of a damn near 50 win team, so this year I was expecting them to atleast approach 50 wins. Especially considering how much Jermaine was suppose to help their defense. Somehow theyve gotten worse, they cant rebound, force turnovers or misses, about the only thing they do right defensively is not foul and even then its more a sign of their lack of physicality.

I figured the offense would take a hit because quite frankly Jermaine is no TJ Ford, but I didnt think it would be this bad. They are playing at about the same pace but are scoring 3 less PPG while giving up the same. Theyve completely flip flopped, the first thing I look at when evaluating a team from one year to the next is whats changed at the team level and whos responsible for the change, since I want this short and sweet simply looking at their offensive efficiency will suffice. Its a real concern, especially for Jermaine.

---------- 08Raps -------- 09Raps
Chris Bosh 117 (27.7) -- (27.3) 114 Chris Bosh
TJ Ford ---109 (26.8) -- (24.1) 95 Jermaine Oneal
Bargnani ---98 (22.5) --- (22.8) 88 Roko/Solomon
Humphries -103 (22.1) -- (21.9) 111 Humphries
Delfino ----107 (19.0) -- (19.2) 107 Joey Graham
Kapono --- 105 (17.7) -- (19.0) 99 Bargnani
Rasho ----- 114 (17.4) - (16.8) 102 Jason Kapono
A.Parker -- 113 (17.4) -- (16.8) 124 Calderon
Calderon -- 127 (16.8) -- (15.7) 97 Anthony Parker
Moon ----- 110 (14.4) -- (14.0) 113 Moon


Those are their main rotational players, Jermaine is killing their offense, Ive never seen him play this poorly, it wont matter how good he is defensively if hes the one taking up all the possessions and being this ineffective. The Roko/Solomon rotation is killing them, Bargnani has held back on the chucking perhaps to make room for Jermaine but maybe its not for the best. Calderon and Bosh are doing their part but with both of their premier shooters playing below their established norms its making it easier for the opposition to focus on Bosh.

Their production by position has fallen off pretty dramatically from one year to the next:
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809TOR5.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR5.HTM

VinceIsASally
12-19-2008, 06:03 PM
they need Shawn Marion

For?

Jonathan2323
12-19-2008, 06:34 PM
^Jermaine O'neal works out for both teams

raptor fan
12-19-2008, 08:00 PM
we need bargnani to step up. we've waited long enough; its time for him to produce. also, we definately need more wing help. i don't mind parker starting, but i think we need moon coming off the bench. marion would be a good fit in T.O, but i don't really like the idea of giving up JO. however, jonathon2323, what do u think of this deal involving the heat and raps:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2981~615~498~510~3046&teams=14~14~28~28~28&te=&cash=

b_rad23
12-19-2008, 08:13 PM
We counter:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2759~615~498~510~3046&teams=14~14~28~28~28&te=&cash=

Raps18-19 Champ
12-19-2008, 08:16 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2981~615~1023~510~2423&teams=14~14~14~28~28&te=&cash=

We counter back

raptor fan
12-19-2008, 08:28 PM
how about this?:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2981~2759~615~498~510~3046~242 3&teams=14~14~14~28~28~28~28&te=&cash=

b_rad23
12-19-2008, 08:56 PM
no need.

ink
12-19-2008, 08:59 PM
no need.

You want to post a response, do it without the insult. :cool:

Raps18-19 Champ
12-19-2008, 10:37 PM
You want to post a response, do it without the insult. :cool:

What he say?

Talick
12-19-2008, 11:23 PM
We just gave the Thunder their third taste of victory...I don't know what to say anymore.

Talick
12-19-2008, 11:26 PM
I posted this trade in the Raptors and Sixers forums, but I'll put it here to get a broader view on the idea....



http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2004~2386~2987~2010~1023&teams=28~28~20~20~20&te=&cash=


We get arguably the best shooter in the league and Bargnani who would be a nice piece off the bench. Losing Iggy allows Thad to step in as the full time SF and we could go small with Lou as the starting 2 guard. Another positive with this trade would be that we could cut some salary and if things went south we could try and dump as much salary as we could by trading Sammy and maybe Reggie to gear up for 2010....

Lineups:

PG-Andre Miller----------------------------------------------Jose Calderon
SG-Lou Williams---------------------------------------------Anthony Parker
SF-Thaddeus Young-----------------------------------------Andre Iguodala
PF-Elton BRand----------------------------------------------Chris Bosh
C-Sammy D--------------------------------------------------Jermaine O'neal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BN-Jason Kapono--------------------------------------------Jamario Moon
BN-Andrea Bargnani-----------------------------------------Willie Green
BN-Kareem Rush---------------------------------------------Joey Graham
BN-u guys know the rest....-----------------------------------the rest

I'm sure i'll get blasted for this idea, but whatever.....i like it

That's actually not too bad of a trade.

heyman321
12-19-2008, 11:47 PM
We just gave the Thunder their third taste of victory...I don't know what to say anymore.

MAN RAPTORS SUCK!!! And I'm a Raptors fan too. Screw it, I'm moving.

Talick
12-19-2008, 11:52 PM
we need to move bargnani now while we can. Any takers???

NYMetros
12-19-2008, 11:54 PM
I would go with a wing defender that has good slashing ability.

JordansBulls
12-20-2008, 10:16 AM
Would the Raptors consider trading Bosh now?

Faneik
12-20-2008, 10:23 AM
They need a veteran coach. Too much talent being wasted right now.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-20-2008, 12:24 PM
Would the Raptors consider trading Bosh now?

Only for a star for star trade

We not making trades like what Memphis did with LA

MilfHunter07
12-20-2008, 01:31 PM
They Need a True SG that can create for himself. Someone like VC.

MilfHunter07
12-20-2008, 01:33 PM
Only for a star for star trade

We not making trades like what Memphis did with LA

That trade didn't work out that bad. Memphis got a Big man, young PG and cap room. Lakers got Gasol end of story.

prash
12-20-2008, 05:55 PM
Roster is fine. We just need a good coach.

IversonIsKrazy
12-20-2008, 06:26 PM
we need a trade and a coach. we need a coach like one of these, Avery Johnson or Flip Saunders.
then trade i would do is w/ the heat. like this.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3247~2184~510~2987~3249~615&teams=28~28~28~14~14~14&te=&cash=

canzano55
12-21-2008, 12:28 AM
Ive been really really disappointed with the Raps and Jermaine, seems like every time I wanna check him out I see him limping or getting that knee hurt someway. He must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

Last year the Raps overall record dropped from the year before but they were still an improved team, they had a scoring margin of a damn near 50 win team, so this year I was expecting them to atleast approach 50 wins. Especially considering how much Jermaine was suppose to help their defense. Somehow theyve gotten worse, they cant rebound, force turnovers or misses, about the only thing they do right defensively is not foul and even then its more a sign of their lack of physicality.

I figured the offense would take a hit because quite frankly Jermaine is no TJ Ford, but I didnt think it would be this bad. They are playing at about the same pace but are scoring 3 less PPG while giving up the same. Theyve completely flip flopped, the first thing I look at when evaluating a team from one year to the next is whats changed at the team level and whos responsible for the change, since I want this short and sweet simply looking at their offensive efficiency will suffice. Its a real concern, especially for Jermaine.

---------- 08Raps -------- 09Raps
Chris Bosh 117 (27.7) -- (27.3) 114 Chris Bosh
TJ Ford ---109 (26.8) -- (24.1) 95 Jermaine Oneal
Bargnani ---98 (22.5) --- (22.8) 88 Roko/Solomon
Humphries -103 (22.1) -- (21.9) 111 Humphries
Delfino ----107 (19.0) -- (19.2) 107 Joey Graham
Kapono --- 105 (17.7) -- (19.0) 99 Bargnani
Rasho ----- 114 (17.4) - (16.8) 102 Jason Kapono
A.Parker -- 113 (17.4) -- (16.8) 124 Calderon
Calderon -- 127 (16.8) -- (15.7) 97 Anthony Parker
Moon ----- 110 (14.4) -- (14.0) 113 Moon


Those are their main rotational players, Jermaine is killing their offense, Ive never seen him play this poorly, it wont matter how good he is defensively if hes the one taking up all the possessions and being this ineffective. The Roko/Solomon rotation is killing them, Bargnani has held back on the chucking perhaps to make room for Jermaine but maybe its not for the best. Calderon and Bosh are doing their part but with both of their premier shooters playing below their established norms its making it easier for the opposition to focus on Bosh.

Their production by position has fallen off pretty dramatically from one year to the next:
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809TOR5.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR5.HTMThis is an excellent analysis.

You have factually proven that the Raptors potent offense of last year was the only thing that kept them afloat whereas this season not only is the defense and rebounding the same or worse, the offense overall has taken a giant step back.

Although this team boasts some good talent they're playing some of the worst basketball in the NBA and no one is even injured!!

bartlett2266
12-21-2008, 09:49 PM
would you guys be interesed in a trade like Deng and Gordon for JO and a first. Gives you wing D. a scoring SG, and gets JO off your hands.

absolutley in a second u really think the bulls would go for it