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Doc Fluty
12-14-2008, 11:16 PM
Im just pulling my hair out with Chiefs "fans" here...

quick question.. how many starters on our defense was in thier positions last year and has played the entire season there?

the answer?

2.. PAGE AND POLLARD!!!!!!

thats IT!

did anyone think before this season started we would win more than 4 games? we are playing with our 3rd string qb here guys! we have a guys STARTING on our d-lind AND lb that were not even on the team a few weeks ago! (babin & boiman)

the young guys are going to make mistakes.. get over it. I am glad we only lost by 1 point to san diego 2 times this years

yeah fire edwards because Bowe ran out of bounds before the first down marker.. and that bowe totally jacked the onside kick... yeah thats herm edwards fault.

What coach do you think could come in here and do better with whats going on with the chiefs this year? look at all the talent SD has and they almost got beat by us twice!

we have over 20 rookies on our team. the only starters we have from offense in the same spot as last year are johnson, gonzo, waters & niswanger! 4..thats it!

on defense how many returning starters do we have that play the same position as last year? ....ONLY page & pollard.. 2!!!!!!!!!!!! ...hali has been moved around this season, D johnson has been moved all over this season to.. hes now learning the mike LB spot.

Look at teams like Indy, NE, pitt, Phi, gia or any other successful team and you will see QB consistency. for at least the last 5 years they had the same QB.. we have used 3 different starters this year alone. Our starting QB is a 7th round draft pick from coastal carolina and hasnt played a full season of games yet in the NFL, yet some people scream that we need another qb... which would be our 4th in 1 year.

its always darkest before the dawn.. stop whining and support your team. You think troops over in Iraq sit want to hear back home that they arent doing a good job? hell no, same with our Chiefs.. they dont want to go across the web and constantly hear that the whole team suck and whatever... support your team or be a bandwagoner and follow whoevers winning that year..

look on the bright side.. at least your not Raider fans:speechless:

Kcfanbaby212*
12-14-2008, 11:24 PM
yeah...youu mentioned guys who have been moved around? thats all coach faults. Our DC had to get someone hired to help with Playcalling...wtf is up with that. Hali being move to the otherside, thinking he was a RE...thats coaching, we cant help the injuries, but consistency of keeping people in their position helps. croyle is as strong as glass....and our coaches were content with that. We have gotten progressively worse each season...and why did this "rebuild" just start this year? These coaches have been here for 3 years already...

Kcfanbaby212*
12-14-2008, 11:24 PM
the expectations werent high, but they werent this low either.

Gigantes4Life
12-15-2008, 02:40 AM
We lost 9 games in a row last year to end the season. How were expectations not this low?

FKNRUEHH925
12-15-2008, 03:50 AM
this year we were only predicted to win 3-4 games..most people expected this! and as for our injuires i think this season is a great thing! we found imo r future QB w/p. Surtain hurt Carr steped it up

FKNRUEHH925
12-15-2008, 03:53 AM
sorry 2 posts cell phones suck! but we also found a #2 guy in Bradly! all this cuz injuries! imo we r playin better every week and next year it will be all the sweeter when we win 8 if we stay health

FKNRUEHH925
12-15-2008, 03:56 AM
we lost 1 game in OT and 2 by 1 point we could easy have 4 wins and next year with a solid draft and a de we could be a good team

Gigantes4Life
12-15-2008, 05:10 AM
Yeah, the OT game, the two 2 point games, and the blown game against the Jets (kinda) as well.

It will be awhile till next season :sigh:

But when it gets here I will be excited. At least we still have the draft! :)

rhensley3
12-15-2008, 11:20 AM
herm has lost 21 games in the last 23. what coach anywhere has done worse? this team has won 6 games in the last two years, and the coaching staff isnt giving any indication that they have any idea whats going on! play calling in the second half was pitiful! how many points did we throw away yesterday? was it because of players uncontrolled by the coaching staff? in the 4" thick playbook, is there just 1 play for 3rd and 1? may i remind you that to win 4 games...we have to win out! we couldnt hold a two touchdown lead over a team making one mistake after another for a minute and a half? this was a team loss in a game where, if you cant win this one...you cant win..period! we are not just a bunch of guys who show up and play on sunday...this is an organization with employees and bosses who are supposed to be leaders. herm is responsable for the quality of the product on the field. are we the way we are "because" of herm, or "in spite " of him?

KC's Finest
12-15-2008, 12:22 PM
I could not agree more. If we fire Herm, it will be the biggest mistake the Chiefs will make since I've known them. We are on the right track; the players believe, we just need more time. Next year will be a lot different; and the year after that could be sweet.....

RustShack
12-15-2008, 01:35 PM
Someone said we could be good next year if we aren't hit by injurys, for some reason I don't think next year will be the first team Herm has had that isn't plauged by injury. It just the way he runs things, the players aren't completely ready and they get hurt because of it.

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 05:05 PM
injuries have more to do with the strength and conditioning coaches than the head coach rust.

but in a way your right.. edwards teams seam to be cured when it comes to injuries.

FKNRUEHH925
12-15-2008, 05:53 PM
what do u guys think of Babin? he impressed me the past few games..imo he is not a starter but a SOLID guy to slide in the rotation when Orakpo is tired. guys we r 3 players away from a winnin season

FKNRUEHH925
12-15-2008, 06:01 PM
we get some pressure on the QB from our DE and maybe a blitz happy MLB we can easy win 8 nrxt year. **** we could have 4 this year 2 games lost by 1 and one in O.T. LJ was out 4 games.

**CHIEFS**
12-15-2008, 06:07 PM
The fans that are whinning ARE the true fans. They are the ones that are demanding a winner. 32 million under the cap is inexcusable in this league. Unless you are 32 mill under and have talent. We are going to shatter the low sacks record for a 16 game season and we gave up the best YOUNG pass rushing DE in the league. And I was one that liked the move when it happened. Guess what... I was wrong. And so were the Chiefs. The difference is that I dont get paid to make these bad decisions. Did I expect to be good... NO. But I didnt expect to be leading in the second half either. Bad teams dont usually get blown out in this league. Bad teams find different ways to lose every week just like the Chiefs are doing. Hell, the Lions have had second half leads in many games this year. They arent heading in the right direction. The sacks record tells me we might have the worst D-line in history. And the LB's might be even worse as a group. Pretty bad considering how many 1st day picks we have invested on the D side of the ball the past 3 years. I love my Chiefs and Royals win or lose, but Clark Hunt is killing this franchise in a hurry. Every fan has the right to complain when a product this bad is being put out. If fans didnt ***** and moan why not go 70 mil under the cap? would make business sense to save another 40 mil if you knew all your fans were going to just take it and still support you wouldnt it?

**CHIEFS**
12-15-2008, 06:57 PM
Chiefs fans finally got their way today. King Carl is officially gone after this season and the search for new GM begins immediately!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kcchiefs_82
12-15-2008, 07:09 PM
I dont think that herm should be fired. We will see what he does with an GM thats not a blubbering idiot.

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 07:32 PM
chiefs.. ok fine.. were 32 million under.. who should we have signed this last offseason? cmon.. gimmie a name.. who? JUST ONE NAME..

J allen didnt wanna stay so hes out. so lets look at the othr DEs or dts that changed teams last year...

K edwards - no
j engelberger - no

g.. maybe we should turn into the raiders at throw 55 million at guys of tommy kellys pedigree...

get me with your wish list the last two seasons and we will see if we should put your name in the hat of the new chiefs GM.

RustShack
12-15-2008, 07:34 PM
injuries have more to do with the strength and conditioning coaches than the head coach rust.

but in a way your right.. edwards teams seam to be cured when it comes to injuries.

Oh you are so right. How the HC runs his practice has absolutely no effect on the players health and the readiness of their body's on gameday. He also has no say in who he hires to be his strength and conditioning coaches either.

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 07:40 PM
ok then all these tough training camps that couhilin has should has should just be killing people.. or cowers.. or even shott. when he used to do two a days all summer long even for the veterans.

and no i dont think herms practices have anything to do with how fragile croyle is or the fact that huard is 35 years old. d edwards and surtains age has a lot to do with it also, the fact that they have remained healthy for so many years is a matter of chance due to the fact they play positions with a lot of contact... it was only a matter of time

were not the only team in the league decimated by injuries.. i guess the pats suck at it too due to the fact every year they have 4-5 stars on IR. whether its harrison, brushi or vrabel or MANY of thier CBs.. i guess thats bills fault

RustShack
12-15-2008, 07:42 PM
:laugh: OK make an excuse for every player Herm has ever had in his coaching career, even if they never had injury problems before him and don't have injury problems after him(there are a few exceptions such as Croyle).

**CHIEFS**
12-15-2008, 07:43 PM
Allen wanted paid. The Chiefs obviously had the money. I remember CC Sabathia not wanting to go to New York. 161 mil later he was okay with it. had the Chiefs offere3d Minn money he would have stayed. But like I said I was wanting to get rid of him myself at the time. I was wrong but dont get paid to make thse decisions so I cant be fired for it. Poor personnel calls the past several years is why Carl is gone. just a little late

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 07:45 PM
:laugh: OK make an excuse for every player Herm has ever had in his coaching career, even if they never had injury problems before him and don't have injury problems after him(there are a few exceptions such as Croyle).

ok.. a few names as examples? huard was never really a starter unitl his last 15 games or so... so beyond edwards and surtain pulling a hammy.. who else?

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 07:46 PM
Allen wanted paid. The Chiefs obviously had the money. I remember CC Sabathia not wanting to go to New York. 161 mil later he was okay with it. had the Chiefs offere3d Minn money he would have stayed. But like I said I was wanting to get rid of him myself at the time. I was wrong but dont get paid to make thse decisions so I cant be fired for it. Poor personnel calls the past several years is why Carl is gone. just a little late

you still didnt give me one name... who other than j allen who didnt want to be in KC and we got GREAT draft picks for.. names please

cmon.. just one.. who would you have brought it with your extra 32 million?

RustShack
12-15-2008, 07:50 PM
ok.. a few names as examples? huard was never really a starter unitl his last 15 games or so... so beyond edwards and surtain pulling a hammy.. who else?

I was more talking about the Jets, you do know Herm was a HC with another team before he came to the Chiefs right?

RustShack
12-15-2008, 07:52 PM
I think its so funny that you can't notice we weren't an injury plagued before Herm, the Jets weren't injury plagued before Herm, and they aren't injury plagued anymore after Herm.

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 07:52 PM
um yeah... and we all know of pennigtons frailness.. which lasted even after herm left.. but you just like the chiefs guy.. have failed to name names.. just vague accusations

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 07:54 PM
I think its so funny that you can't notice we weren't an injury plagued before Herm, the Jets weren't injury plagued before Herm, and they aren't injury plagued anymore after Herm.

ohhh yeah your soo right... grbac was hurt (which led to gannons nice run), p holmes didnt get injured.. sylvester morris didnt get injured.. borigeter was out for the year, that middle linebacker guy never got injured..maslowski er something? pattons injuries, woods never broke his arm and was gone for a year.. yeah your right.. we always were healthy

RustShack
12-15-2008, 07:57 PM
Theres injurys on every team, some teams have more than others(such has Herms teams).

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 08:01 PM
see your being dismissive.. ive provided you with names of a lot of starters during the years right before herm got here that were injured.. we were not that injury plagued herms first two years here.

we started the year with a frail qb, then an old one.. and a old LB and CD.. so they get hurt and it seems like were injury riddled. but thigs been healthy.. johnsons been healthy.. gonzo and the majority of other starters.. most are losing their starting jobs to playing youth not only injuries.

RustShack
12-15-2008, 08:03 PM
Nah its fine, I'm not going to do a bunch of research to prove you wrong. I'll just wait another day to talk to someone who pays attention to football.

**CHIEFS**
12-15-2008, 09:26 PM
Faneca is 1. Lilga was available for a while. Boss Bailey and Calvin Pace at LB. Berrian at WR. Antonio Bryant better than any #2 we have now. Think all those players listed would have made this team better. But what GREAT picks did we get for Allen? Charles? hurt and fumble prone. Cottom? done nothing. Albert? Hurt again?. Worst sack team in history and we let best pass rusher go for this? Piss poor decision making. Clark Hunt is making Al Davis look like a genius. Hopefully he can find a football guy for new GM because he and Carl both dont know a dam thing

kcchiefs_82
12-15-2008, 09:32 PM
Charles- has done a damn good job as a change of pace back for a rookie and i think he has a great career ahead of him.
Albert- Has done great as a LT for a rookie and yes got hurt but finished the game
Cottam- Has been a good blocker and thats what we drafted him for. He doesnt have to do anything but block... WE HAVE TONY.

Doc Fluty
12-15-2008, 10:52 PM
Nah its fine, I'm not going to do a bunch of research to prove you wrong. I'll just wait another day to talk to someone who pays attention to football.

oh whatever... you always act like you know more than anyone else here.. but i just named you many injured guys from the chiefs teams 5-6 years ago off the top of my head and i dont pay attention?

your not the only one here who has a valid opinion. anyone who disagrees with you.. you play it off as if that person is simply ingorant.

what started this is by me claiming that injuries are part of football and were no more injured that any other teams. You countered by saying we were healthy before herm arrived.. i named many chiefs starters who were injured before herm got here and you came back with my original statement.. as teams always have injuries..

you made my case for me.

Kcfanbaby212*
12-16-2008, 01:19 AM
I think alot of it has to do with the fact...that when you play football, its not a matter of if you get hurt, but when you get hurt.

DKKC
12-16-2008, 11:00 AM
What about Trent Green and Larry Johnson they got hurt in herms first two years ... but those we're kinda uncommon injuries?

DKKC
12-16-2008, 11:11 AM
Charles- has done a damn good job as a change of pace back for a rookie and i think he has a great career ahead of him.
Albert- Has done great as a LT for a rookie and yes got hurt but finished the game
Cottam- Has been a good blocker and thats what we drafted him for. He doesnt have to do anything but block... WE HAVE TONY.


And on top of all that Charles has had 2 fumbles in 85 touches.

Albert missed 2 games. Tough, talented, young kid.

Cottom - You said it best, doesnt need to take any touches away from Tony

Doc Fluty
12-16-2008, 12:37 PM
What about Trent Green and Larry Johnson they got hurt in herms first two years ... but those we're kinda uncommon injuries?

trent green got blasted.. you cant blame that on conditioning. hes a old guy who smacked his noggin on the ground.

and larry johnson got injured after carrying more than anyone in the history of football and then held out of training camp so he wanst in shape

**CHIEFS**
12-16-2008, 01:36 PM
So We could have had Albert anyway at 5. Allen is a premier DE. change of pace backs and blocking Te's are a dime a dozen in this league. Dorsey is looking like a typical Chiefs drafted DT. Other than the fact he was a run stopping DT that cant stop the run and cant generate any push towards the QB in passing situations he is great. So I would rather have Allen and Albert than Dorsey, Albert, Cottam, and Charles.

RustShack
12-16-2008, 02:14 PM
So We could have had Albert anyway at 5. Allen is a premier DE. change of pace backs and blocking Te's are a dime a dozen in this league. Dorsey is looking like a typical Chiefs drafted DT. Other than the fact he was a run stopping DT that cant stop the run and cant generate any push towards the QB in passing situations he is great. So I would rather have Allen and Albert than Dorsey, Albert, Cottam, and Charles.

We wouldn't have drafted Albert #5 overall, and I really hope your joking about Dorsey. Are you seriously judgeing a DT before his third year in the NFL?

DKKC
12-16-2008, 04:55 PM
trent green got blasted.. you cant blame that on conditioning. hes a old guy who smacked his noggin on the ground.

and larry johnson got injured after carrying more than anyone in the history of football and then held out of training camp so he wanst in shape

Yeah thats what I meant with the uncommon injuries but I guess it came out kinda wrong. Im with you on this one tho, a coach carrying around an injury bug is just absurd

Thearchitect33
12-16-2008, 07:46 PM
People can bad mouth Herm and Carl all they want. They may even prove to be right. The bottom line is simply this, and my opinion hasn't changed since the "rebuilding" process began. We need to give Herm more time. Next year should tell us whether or not he's actually got something going here, but my money would be on yes, he does.

Unfortunately, I have a really sick feeling that Hunt and the new GM he hires are going to get rid of Herm and the "rebuilding" process will either start all over or will be abandoned for the old Chiefs team-building method, sign past-their-prime players to big money contracts and then wonder why things aren't going so well.

Someone made a big deal about being 32 million under the salary cap. Are you serious, just because you have it doesn't mean you should spend it, whoever was suggesting that we should may have been a Raiders fan in a past life. I guess we should mortgage our future and spend way more money than necessary on players who are unproven to satisfy whoever that was. Come on, grow up! If we hadn't had cap space at the beginning of the season, we wouldn't have been able to sign Bradley, Babin, or Boiman along with whoever else we may sign in the offseason. It's smart to have some money in reserve, especially when there aren't any players on your roster that deserve getting a lot more money. Who, other than J Allen would we want to pay? As far as Allen goes, he had off the field issues, and really didn't want to be in KC unless he was paid better than any DE in the league. For a team that is one or two players away from the super bowl, it would make sense to pay him. On the other hand, for a team in a "rebuilding" mode, it doesn't make sense to limit your ability to sign draft picks or young free agents for a guy that is already in his prime and will probably be past it by the time the other guys are up to speed. You have to think about these things logically.

FKNRUEHH925
12-16-2008, 08:44 PM
we had the dorsey debate already..his stats are beyond good! where was sapp his first year 1 sack 18 tck somp like that!! where was haynesworth 2 years ago? deff not puttin up monster numbers

FKNRUEHH925
12-16-2008, 09:00 PM
the only "freak" stats wise for a DT was kevin williams with 10 sacks most DT have 13-20 tackles and 1-3 sacks there rookie season...in an old post i posted all the stats and Dorsey is doing fine

**CHIEFS**
12-16-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm surer Atlanta didnt look like 1 or 2 players away last year. 1 big FA pick up and a rookie QB later they are looking pretty good now AND for the future. So maybe if we keep the best DE in the league, pick up Faneca in FA, and draft our needed LT we win these close 4th quarter games instead of lose them and find ourselves in a situation like Atlanta.

Thearchitect33
12-16-2008, 09:45 PM
If we had paid JA what he wanted you could have kissed the Free Agent signings goodbye. He would have severely limited our ability to sign free agents or top draft picks for five years with the size of the deal he wanted.

Thearchitect33
12-16-2008, 09:46 PM
He also would have limited our ability to retain good young players who had outperformed the deal they signed when they were rookies.

kcchiefs_82
12-16-2008, 10:08 PM
I honestly think that trading JA was the right move. LONG TERM.... every rookie we got for him is way cheaper and will all be at least decent in the NFL.. i believe.

RustShack
12-17-2008, 04:36 AM
the only "freak" stats wise for a DT was kevin williams with 10 sacks most DT have 13-20 tackles and 1-3 sacks there rookie season...in an old post i posted all the stats and Dorsey is doing fine

He might have had "freak" stats for a DT, but he played DE his rookie year...

Cearah
12-17-2008, 04:43 AM
I honestly think that trading JA was the right move. LONG TERM.... every rookie we got for him is way cheaper and will all be at least decent in the NFL.. i believe.



I agree!!

DKKC
12-17-2008, 12:59 PM
We traded potentially one of the best DEs ever, if not for only this era. And your telling me its better for this team because we got 3 guys who could maybe someday be good? The guy was 25 freaking years old. Your way of thinking warrents nothing but trys to justify our own teams stupidity. We hurt ourself by not trading away Larry Johnson (I like the guy but I think his career here is done.) I heard GB was offering a 1st and 2nd.

Doc Fluty
12-17-2008, 04:43 PM
at the time it was a hard decision.. to trade away LJ.. how do you trade away prolly a top 3 RB in the prime of his career? fans would be *****ing just like when allen left... there are always those fans who want every star player... if they want to be those kinda fans they can just be redskin fans.. snyder is perfect for those people

Kcfanbaby212*
12-17-2008, 04:52 PM
Atlantas players stepped up, they traded D-hall for a 2nd rounder...they got Michael Turner...they beefedup the OL, who they had been building for the past couple of years, they signed a Franchise QB...Abraham is healthy, guys who have been on there rosters for the past few years, are finally stepping i up..Babenaux, Boley, Grimes, Houston...then the trade for Foxworth from Denver, hes stpped in and played damn well...that is a franchise who changed GMs, and hired a good QB mentoring coach in Mike Smith...they made the correct personnel changes, and drafted very well, and signed quality FAs....thats why they look so good, because they were smart.

Kcfanbaby212*
12-17-2008, 04:54 PM
so heres how the team wouldve looked if we didnt take allen and drafted Dorsey....we still wouldve needed a LT, RG, and RT(McIntosh was a alright LT, but hes turned into a pretty good RT). We would still need 2 LBs, and a hell of alot more. Were not close to winning a championship....but we are closer than we wouldve been with Allen....I liked allen alot....but if you havent noticed..hes got some baggage...his DUIs...and now his 90000+ dollars in fines....

DKKC
12-17-2008, 07:05 PM
at the time it was a hard decision.. to trade away LJ.. how do you trade away prolly a top 3 RB in the prime of his career? fans would be *****ing just like when allen left... there are always those fans who want every star player... if they want to be those kinda fans they can just be redskin fans.. snyder is perfect for those people

LJ isnt really that popular in KC a lot of fans didnt really like him. Im not saying that all fans would have been fine with the decision but im pretty sure more ppl were dissappoint in the dealing of JA vs the potential the that LJ wouldnt be back.

JA made our defense really good with nothing on it. LJ doesnt make the offense when the load is on his shoulders. And he does have the record for most carries in a season which history has shown us that doesnt boad so well for the indivual the remainder of his career. On top of that LJ has been getting into trouble since his rookie season. Idk just my thoughts

**CHIEFS**
12-17-2008, 07:20 PM
The Colts paid Freeney, yet they still have Manning, Harrison, and Wayne. And still paid #1 draft pick money for Addai. This crap about hurting our future is garbage. He wouldnt have counted 32 mil against this years cap. And hell, if you are going to be 32 mill under go ahead and sign him and make this year count 32 mil against the cap. that would have minimized how much he counted down the road.

**CHIEFS**
12-17-2008, 07:30 PM
And he would not have hurt us from signing our rookies because as of 2010 there is no salary cap. And Clark Hunt said himself he fully expects that to happen

DKKC
12-17-2008, 07:33 PM
Had we kept JA we probably would have had to pay him big money but I dont think he would have gotten the same size contract. But none of that matters, He had problems with CP and now Carl Peterson is gone. Hopefully the next GM wont run out good players each year he's in power.

kcchiefs_82
12-17-2008, 09:16 PM
I did liked JA dont get me wrong but I do believe our O-line would be a mess without Brandon Albert He has been great this season for a rookie LT. Charles has made some plays and gives LJ a breather, and Cottam has done a pretty good job blocking so it has made our team better, yes our defense is worse but our offense is WAY better than they were last year.

**CHIEFS**
12-17-2008, 11:03 PM
So bad o we go 4-12. Bad d 2-14. We could have kept a great young de and gotten dorsey. Still had the same 2-14 record this year and picked up oher or the kid out of bama. Then gotten a rt from south carolina in rnd 2 also this year.