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mrblisterdundee
12-12-2008, 09:29 PM
With all this complaining over all-star voting, it's obvious the system is a let down. There are too many idiotic fans to let them have the final say in all-star voting. I have started posts for voting on this site, but even those have returned wierd results. For my part, here is what I think would be a logical all-star line-up, based on specific positions each with one back-up, for both conferences.

Western Conference:
C: Yao Ming Back-Up C: Andris Biedrins
PF: Amare Stoudemire Back-Up PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Carmello Anthony Back-Up SF: Ron Artest
SG: Kobe Bryant Back-Up SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Chris Paul Back-Up PG: Deron Williams

Eastern Conference:
C: Dwight Howard Back-Up C: Al Horford
PF: Chris Bosh Back-Up PF: Kevin Garnett
SF: LeBron James Back-Up SF: Paul Pierce
SG: Dwayne Wade Back-Up SG: Joe Johnson
PG: Devin Harris Back-Up PG: Jose Calderon

superkegger
12-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Why artest?

15/6/3 on 35% shooting.

Not really all star worthy to me.

DreamShaker
12-12-2008, 10:32 PM
As a Rockets fan I would give the other forward spot to Gasol or Dirk and even Aldridge over Artest....but the rest of the list is pretty solid....

superkegger
12-12-2008, 10:34 PM
If Al jefferson is considered a C, I think I would give him the nod over biedrins. Number are pretty comparable, and its not like either is on a good team. So i'd give the nod to al jefferson.

Chronz
12-12-2008, 10:37 PM
Billups over Deron
Dirk ahead of Melo and toss out Artest
Duncan should be starting
Biedrins has been good been his team is really ******, Id take Pau over him or even Shaq


Also, remember the league doesnt have to vote by specific positions, just general terms that a player qualifies as either Guard, Forward, Center or any combination so long as the player is believable at that position.

philab
12-12-2008, 11:01 PM
I don't see the big problem with fan voting for starters.

It's FIVE spots for each conference. Usually 9/10 or 10/10 of the starters are indeed worthy of being in the game (not necessarily starting, though) and anyone snubbed gets in by coach's decision.

lorneg34
12-12-2008, 11:17 PM
I don't see the big problem with fan voting for starters.

It's FIVE spots for each conference. Usually 9/10 or 10/10 of the starters are indeed worthy of being in the game (not necessarily starting, though) and anyone snubbed gets in by coach's decision.

are you kidding? you have to be joking, either that or you just don't know basketball, rather sports in general.....im not going to try and bash you but lets look realistically
in the East you have whatever his name is Yi jianlin or something?? he isn't the best player even on his team
3rd MAYBE behing carter and harris, and his numbers are what?
11ppg/6rpg/42% field goal
He is third in voting at his position behing Garnett and Lebron
How is it possible that Yi has more votes then chris bosh?? it makes no sense
bosh's stats are
24.7ppg(career high and top 5 in league)/10.1rpg(top 5 in league) 52% field goal(career high)

so please defend this and tell me how this works? besides the fact that behind Yi Jianlin he has about 3 BILLION chinese voters in china voting for him

lorneg34
12-12-2008, 11:19 PM
I agree with this thread
there is 0 reason why Bosh shouldn't be 1 of the 5 starters for the East

I do like how 4 guys up there all came from the best draft class EVER
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade that draft class alone can have its own all star team

AFlagRules
12-12-2008, 11:20 PM
are you kidding? you have to be joking, either that or you just don't know basketball, rather sports in general.....im not going to try and bash you but lets look realistically
in the East you have whatever his name is Yi jianlin or something?? he isn't the best player even on his team
3rd MAYBE behing carter and harris, and his numbers are what?
11ppg/6rpg/42% field goal
He is third in voting at his position behing Garnett and Lebron
How is it possible that Yi has more votes then chris bosh?? it makes no sense
bosh's stats are
24.7ppg(career high and top 5 in league)/10.1rpg(top 5 in league) 52% field goal(career high)

so please defend this and tell me how this works? besides the fact that behind Yi Jianlin he has about 3 BILLION chinese voters in china voting for him


He also said that "anyone who gets snubbed gets in by coaches decision"...With the way it is now, that's how CB4 will get in. Pretty unbelievable but what can ya do :(

philab
12-12-2008, 11:30 PM
are you kidding? you have to be joking, either that or you just don't know basketball, rather sports in general.....im not going to try and bash you but lets look realistically
in the East you have whatever his name is Yi jianlin or something?? he isn't the best player even on his team
3rd MAYBE behing carter and harris, and his numbers are what?
11ppg/6rpg/42% field goal
He is third in voting at his position behing Garnett and Lebron
How is it possible that Yi has more votes then chris bosh?? it makes no sense
bosh's stats are
24.7ppg(career high and top 5 in league)/10.1rpg(top 5 in league) 52% field goal(career high)

so please defend this and tell me how this works? besides the fact that behind Yi Jianlin he has about 3 BILLION chinese voters in china voting for him

Whoa, get pretty excited there? There's absolutely no reason to call out my basketball knowledge, especially after what I posted.


I'm not defending the fans' picks. Really, I'm not even defending the system. I just don't see what the big deal is.

Of course Yi Jianlin doesn't deserve to be in the All-Star game. Never said he did. Bosh and LeBron deserve to be the starters for forwards.

Right now, it's Garnett and LeBron as the starters and Bosh certainly gets in by coach's decision. Yi won't even make the team at all.


Look at the starters so far:
Iverson, Wade, LeBron, Garnett, Howard
Paul, Bryant, Duncan, Stoudemire, Yao

All those players are deserving of being in the game. Bosh, Joe Johnson, Pierce, Harris, and all the other "snubs" will get in by coach's decision. So who cares? Even if Yi were to start the game, it's ONE spot. The possibility of one guy getting a spot he doesn't deserve is not enough to remove the fan vote. It's obvious fans are voting and are into it, so why not keep it going?

Kobe started by in 1997 or whenever when he didn't even start for the Lakers. He offered some pretty sweet highlights that game too. I don't see what the difference between Kobe circa 1997 and Yi is. Just because one's votes came from China doesn't change anything.

*Superman*
12-12-2008, 11:46 PM
Hedo deserves a spot on the team.

td0tsfinest
12-12-2008, 11:48 PM
With all this complaining over all-star voting, it's obvious the system is a let down. There are too many idiotic fans to let them have the final say in all-star voting. I have started posts for voting on this site, but even those have returned wierd results. For my part, here is what I think would be a logical all-star line-up, based on specific positions each with one back-up, for both conferences.

Western Conference:
C: Yao Ming Back-Up C: Andris Biedrins
PF: Amare Stoudemire Back-Up PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Carmello Anthony Back-Up SF: Ron Artest
SG: Kobe Bryant Back-Up SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Chris Paul Back-Up PG: Deron Williams

Eastern Conference:
C: Dwight Howard Back-Up C: Al Horford
PF: Chris Bosh Back-Up PF: Kevin Garnett
SF: LeBron James Back-Up SF: Paul Pierce
SG: Dwayne Wade Back-Up SG: Joe Johnson
PG: Devin Harris Back-Up PG: Jose Calderon
Is Dirk not good enough? Btw Each consist of 12 players. you shy 4 players. In that case, Billups and Dirk should be added to the west. And I'd like to see Derrick Rose and Danny Granger.

td0tsfinest
12-12-2008, 11:51 PM
I agree with this thread
there is 0 reason why Bosh shouldn't be 1 of the 5 starters for the East

I do like how 4 guys up there all came from the best draft class EVER
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dwayne Wade that draft class alone can have its own all star team

Not to mention several other great players out of the same draft. David West, Josh Howard, Chris Kaman, Kirk Hinrich, Barbosa, Mo Williams, list goes on and on. Draft class filled with superstars, allstars and some key role players.

lorneg34
12-12-2008, 11:59 PM
well ya of course it matters..... Yi and Kobe are way different.....one had potential to give some great highlights and one doesnt
It's like when Jamario Moon goes into the dunk contest last year...people are like ?? Who is that? but he can jam
Yi, what will he do exciting?
Its nice to see the Chinese fans and don't get me wrong, the Jersey fans get behind their players....but even Harris on the SAME TEAM has less votes then him and is averaging 24ppg and carrying their team right now

ya i didnt mean to comment on your basketball knowledge my bad
i just think that the system is flaud and needs some improvement on how the voting works
there's to many snubs of good players....guys like bosh shouldn't have to be a "coaches choice" to get in...it shows a lack of respect for better talent

MGB
12-13-2008, 12:05 AM
Derrick Rose should be in there over Calderon

lorneg34
12-13-2008, 12:08 AM
Not to mention several other great players out of the same draft. David West, Josh Howard, Chris Kaman, Kirk Hinrich, Barbosa, Mo Williams, list goes on and on. Draft class filled with superstars, allstars and some key role players.

that brings on a little bit of an idea actually
they do the rookie/sophomore game right
well how about this idea
the Skills challenge on friday night
then the all star game on sunday night

but instead of the rookie/sophomore game
how about an all day saturday mini tournament based on draft class/year??
take 6-8 teams from the previous 6-8 draft years....... form them into the teams based on the draft year and make a tournament format....either a round robin or single game elimination ?? that way the fans get even more entertainment, they get to see basically ALL the stars, and this gives more players a chance to take part in the all-star weekend?

thats not to bad of an idea........single game knock out

Team A - Team B
Team C - Team D
Team E - Team F
Team G - Team H

Semi-Finals
winner A/B - winner C/D
winner E/F - winner G/H

Finals
winner of semi final 1 - winner of semi final 2

i dont know about you, but i would love to sit there and watch a team with a starting 5 of
Bosh/Lebron/Wade/Melo/Kaman

im gonna write to Stern see what he thinks

philab
12-13-2008, 12:12 AM
well ya of course it matters..... Yi and Kobe are way different.....one had potential to give some great highlights and one doesnt
It's like when Jamario Moon goes into the dunk contest last year...people are like ?? Who is that? but he can jam
Yi, what will he do exciting?
Its nice to see the Chinese fans and don't get me wrong, the Jersey fans get behind their players....but even Harris on the SAME TEAM has less votes then him and is averaging 24ppg and carrying their team right now

ya i didnt mean to comment on your basketball knowledge my bad
i just think that the system is flaud and needs some improvement on how the voting works
there's to many snubs of good players....guys like bosh shouldn't have to be a "coaches choice" to get in...it shows a lack of respect for better talent

Obviously Kobe had more potential than Yi has, but neither is/was deserving of a spot. Not even close.


And no, Bosh shouldn't have to be a coach's choice in a perfect world. Again, though, Bosh not starting because Garnett won the vote isn't enough to do away with the fan vote.

And there's always going to be snubs, even if there was no fan voting. Someone like Deron Williams gets left off last year because the West was so deep at PG. I don't remember who got the backup center spot for the East, but I'm sure Deron was more deserving of a spot. That's just the way things go, though.



On a side note, I HATE the fan vote in baseball. It must be something about the voting system or something. In the NBA, the fan vote is usually fairly informed -- some guys get snubbed, but the starters are usually somewhat deserving. In the MLB, the American League starters are a Who's Who of Yankees and Red Sox players. Maybe there are more uninformed fans voting because of how the ballots are just passed out at games. Or maybe it's that year-to-year swings in baseball are so much greater than in the NBA. Or that the NBA doesn't have any teams that near the popularity of the Yankees or Red Sox (relative to the other teams). Whatever it is, Derek Jeter is not the best shortstop in the AL every year (maybe not any year after like 2001). He gets the start every year though. Nothing against the guy, but it's the truth.

td0tsfinest
12-13-2008, 12:14 AM
with the exception of Kaman(replace with Cp3) that was a major lineup at the olympics.

dawgsfan_45
12-13-2008, 12:21 AM
Eastern Conference wise i agree 100%

lorneg34
12-13-2008, 12:26 AM
Obviously Kobe had more potential than Yi has, but neither is/was deserving of a spot. Not even close.


And no, Bosh shouldn't have to be a coach's choice in a perfect world. Again, though, Bosh not starting because Garnett won the vote isn't enough to do away with the fan vote.

And there's always going to be snubs, even if there was no fan voting. Someone like Deron Williams gets left off last year because the West was so deep at PG. I don't remember who got the backup center spot for the East, but I'm sure Deron was more deserving of a spot. That's just the way things go, though.



On a side note, I HATE the fan vote in baseball. It must be something about the voting system or something. In the NBA, the fan vote is usually fairly informed -- some guys get snubbed, but the starters are usually somewhat deserving. In the MLB, the American League starters are a Who's Who of Yankees and Red Sox players. Maybe there are more uninformed fans voting because of how the ballots are just passed out at games. Or maybe it's that year-to-year swings in baseball are so much greater than in the NBA. Or that the NBA doesn't have any teams that near the popularity of the Yankees or Red Sox (relative to the other teams). Whatever it is, Derek Jeter is not the best shortstop in the AL every year (maybe not any year after like 2001). He gets the start every year though. Nothing against the guy, but it's the truth.

well i dont know if nba has a salary cap for a team....im not sure, but baseball has no salary cap and thats why you see the red sox and yankee's overload with all stars.....however sad it is you will see when giambi, a-rod, jeter, matsui, beckett, ortiz, manny, pedroia are all on the all star team....but 1 benefit with baseball is that each team has to have at least 1 player on the all star team which is pretty cool, same with the nhl....i think there needs to be a better way to vote players in..
i can think of 2 ways......you can #1 expand the roster by a few players....
or #2 (i like this way better) they can put into place a rule to have MAXIMUM amount of players from a team on the all star team
for example, you can only have 2 position players and 2 pitchers from any single team on the all star roster..... that way it can be more spread out and even

innovator
12-13-2008, 12:38 AM
only 1 player for the west leading lakers????????????????

lorneg34
12-13-2008, 12:51 AM
only 1 player for the west leading lakers????????????????

lol ya, wtf else do you want?
this is exactly why the all star game is turning into a joke

its called ALL STAR GAME
where all star players come to play
its not supposed to be the "lets get 2-3 players from the best teams"
from your comment, that means the cav's should have at least 1-2 more people other then lebron
i mean afterall they have a better record then the lakers?

care to respond

stevefrancis
12-13-2008, 12:54 AM
danny granger should be starting. hes playing out of his mind.

lorneg34
12-13-2008, 12:58 AM
ya but dude....who would Granger start over?
think realistic....im not insulting your opinion cause granger is playing out of his mind right now....but better then bosh? wade? lebron? howard? lol

starter - No
on the team - 100%

IversonIsKrazy
12-13-2008, 01:06 AM
this is wut it SHOULD b.

West.
C: Yao/Jefferson
PF: Amare/Tim
SF: Melo/Dirk
SG: Kobe/Roy
PG: CP3/D-Will

East.
C: D12/Horford
PF: CB4/KG
SF: LBJ/PP
SG: D-Wade/Joe
PG: Harris/AI

innovator
12-13-2008, 01:28 AM
lol ya, wtf else do you want?
this is exactly why the all star game is turning into a joke

its called ALL STAR GAME
where all star players come to play
its not supposed to be the "lets get 2-3 players from the best teams"
from your comment, that means the cav's should have at least 1-2 more people other then lebron
i mean afterall they have a better record then the lakers?

care to respond

yes cavs should have lebron and big z, celtics should have the big 3, lakers should have kobe, gasol and/or bynum

this is how it should look like

EAST
starting 5
G Iverson
G Wade
F Lebron
F Bosh
C Dwight

G Harris
G J.Johnson
F Pierce
F Garnett
C Big Z
UTL Granger
UTL R.Allen

WEST
starting 5
G CP3
G Kobe
F Melo
F Amare
C Yao

G Billups
G Roy
F Nowitzki
F Duncan
C Bynum or Biedrins or Oneal
UTL Gasol
UTL Deron

michaellui11
12-13-2008, 01:30 AM
i want shaq

jaysfan4ever
12-13-2008, 01:46 AM
With all this complaining over all-star voting, it's obvious the system is a let down. There are too many idiotic fans to let them have the final say in all-star voting. I have started posts for voting on this site, but even those have returned wierd results. For my part, here is what I think would be a logical all-star line-up, based on specific positions each with one back-up, for both conferences.

Western Conference:
C: Yao Ming Back-Up C: Andris Biedrins
PF: Amare Stoudemire Back-Up PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Carmello Anthony Back-Up SF: Ron Artest
SG: Kobe Bryant Back-Up SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Chris Paul Back-Up PG: Deron Williams

Eastern Conference:
C: Dwight Howard Back-Up C: Al Horford
PF: Chris Bosh Back-Up PF: Kevin Garnett
SF: LeBron James Back-Up SF: Paul Pierce
SG: Dwayne Wade Back-Up SG: Joe Johnson
PG: Devin Harris Back-Up PG: Jose Calderon

I like your rosters. However, guys like Al Horford and Ron Artest are not All-Stars IMO, although I will concede that Wallace is a marginal upgrade over Horford. I chose Wallace because not having a single Piston at the All-star game is criminal. And it's about time that Josh Howard got his due, as he's been one of the best all-around SFs in the game over the past few years.

Jose Calderon was replaced by Derrick Rose, because Rose scores at a much higher clip than Calderon, although Calderon is much better at managing the game. Rose gets the nod just slightly, and partially due to the fact that Chicago, a playoff team right now, doesn't have an all-star other than Rose. Biedrins is lifted in favour of Dirk. How you left him off I can't understand, as he could easily be starting the all-star game at PF over Duncan. Amare should not be starting as he's a borderline all-star in the West. I would have no problem picking Carlos Boozer instead.


I'll also add 2 more all-stars to each team, as historically there have been 12 players on each team.

To the East, I added Caron Butler, who's having the best season of his career, coming off the heels of an all-star appearance. Also Danny Granger is really a shoo-in with his play this season.

To the West, I'm adding the point guard that's turned around the denver nuggets from a borderline playoff team to the 2nd best record in the West. That point guard is Billups, who was instrumental as a member of the Pistons appearing in many all-star games. It was close between Biedrins and Jefferson, but Jefferson's out prodced him.

Western Conference:
C: Yao Ming Back-Up C: Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson
PF: Tim Duncan Back-Up PF: Dirk Nowitzki
SF: Carmello Anthony Back-Up SF: Josh Howard
SG: Kobe Bryant Back-Up SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Chris Paul Back-Up PG: Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups

Eastern Conference:
C: Dwight Howard Back-Up C: Rasheed Wallace
PF: Chris Bosh Back-Up PF: Kevin Garnett
SF: LeBron James Back-Up SF: Danny Granger, Caron Butler
SG: Dwayne Wade Back-Up SG: Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce
PG: Devin Harris Back-Up PG: Derrick Rose

JordansBulls
12-13-2008, 01:52 AM
With all this complaining over all-star voting, it's obvious the system is a let down. There are too many idiotic fans to let them have the final say in all-star voting. I have started posts for voting on this site, but even those have returned wierd results. For my part, here is what I think would be a logical all-star line-up, based on specific positions each with one back-up, for both conferences.

Western Conference:
C: Yao Ming Back-Up C: Andris Biedrins
PF: Amare Stoudemire Back-Up PF: Tim Duncan
SF: Carmello Anthony Back-Up SF: Ron Artest
SG: Kobe Bryant Back-Up SG: Brandon Roy
PG: Chris Paul Back-Up PG: Deron Williams

Eastern Conference:
C: Dwight Howard Back-Up C: Al Horford
PF: Chris Bosh Back-Up PF: Kevin Garnett
SF: LeBron James Back-Up SF: Paul Pierce
SG: Dwayne Wade Back-Up SG: Joe Johnson
PG: Devin Harris Back-Up PG: Jose Calderon

Someone on the Celtics has to start. Also Duncan is playing better than Amare anyway at PF.

philab
12-13-2008, 02:18 AM
well i dont know if nba has a salary cap for a team....im not sure, but baseball has no salary cap and thats why you see the red sox and yankee's overload with all stars.....however sad it is you will see when giambi, a-rod, jeter, matsui, beckett, ortiz, manny, pedroia are all on the all star team....but 1 benefit with baseball is that each team has to have at least 1 player on the all star team which is pretty cool, same with the nhl....i think there needs to be a better way to vote players in..
i can think of 2 ways......you can #1 expand the roster by a few players....
or #2 (i like this way better) they can put into place a rule to have MAXIMUM amount of players from a team on the all star team
for example, you can only have 2 position players and 2 pitchers from any single team on the all star roster..... that way it can be more spread out and even

The NBA has a soft salary cap. A team can go over for a number of reasons, but usually has to pay some sort of luxury tax. MLB has no real salary cap, but they also have a luxury tax for payrolls in excess of $117MM (or whatever it is now).

The MLB salary cap doesn't have a whole lot to do with my gripes about the All-Star game. You've flipped the causal connection around -- It's not that the Yankees and Red Sox are able to attract (i.e., pay) these All-Stars and that's why they have so many that annoys me; it's that these high-paid players on the Yankees and Red Sox (who often aren't deserving of a spot) become All-Stars because of the team they play for.

Of course, you can't completely separate these things -- the causal connection goes both ways. The Yankees and Red Sox are typically going to have more All-Stars simply because they're able to pay for better players. The Yankees and Red Sox do not, however, have between them 7/8 of the top position players/DH in the American League. Between Ortiz, Pedroia, Youkilis, Jeter, A-Rod, Cano, Manny (when he was in Boston), Giambi, Lowell, Abreu, Posada, and Varitek, maybe three, in any given year, are actually the top performer at their respective positions. It is especially irksome when Posada, Cano, Jeter, Lowell (the usual suspects) are STARTERS when they don't even deserve to be in the game AT ALL.

superkegger
12-13-2008, 02:27 AM
Hedo deserves a spot on the team.

why?

17 pts 5 boards and 4 apg is nice, but on 38% shooting and 30% from 3, and 2.7 TOPG, its pretty inefficient.

DieselPowered32
12-13-2008, 02:49 AM
hopefully Yao gets injured and doesn't play in the All Star game, so i can see Shaq play in his 15th All Star game. If Shaq keeps up his good performances leading up to the All Star game the Coaches will pick him for sure

superkegger
12-13-2008, 02:52 AM
hopefully Yao gets injured and doesn't play in the All Star game, so i can see Shaq play in his 15th All Star game. If Shaq keeps up his good performances leading up to the All Star game the Coaches will pick him for sure

thats classy. :pity:

JordansBulls
12-13-2008, 11:05 AM
hopefully Yao gets injured and doesn't play in the All Star game, so i can see Shaq play in his 15th All Star game. If Shaq keeps up his good performances leading up to the All Star game the Coaches will pick him for sure

That's ridiculous to say.

DrDEADalready
12-13-2008, 11:15 AM
yeah the only one i dont like is your artest choice

RL1307
12-13-2008, 11:25 AM
I like your rosters but I think Rose should be over Calderon.

fredv
12-13-2008, 11:30 AM
Don't forget this is the All star game, its all about show.

steviefranchise
12-13-2008, 12:23 PM
There is no way that Amare should be starting over Tim Duncan. Duncan has kept his team alive when Parker and Ginobili were out and Duncan averages 21.1ppg 10.7rpg 3.2apg 0.4spg and 1.8bpg while Amare averages 22ppg 8.6rpg 1.9apg 1.2spg and 1.1bpg. But if Shaq was not on the suns then I would probably say he would start over Duncan because I think Shaq is keeping him down and when are the stupid suns going to realize it is Amare's team (after he leaves for free agency). But for now Duncan is way better than Amare.

Yogi
12-13-2008, 12:26 PM
Where the **** is Antawn Jamison?

THE_FLASH_21
12-13-2008, 12:52 PM
Billups over Deron
Dirk ahead of Melo and toss out Artest
Duncan should be starting
Biedrins has been good been his team is really ******, Id take Pau over him or even Shaq


Also, remember the league doesnt have to vote by specific positions, just general terms that a player qualifies as either Guard, Forward, Center or any combination so long as the player is believable at that position.


I agree with u.. Billups over Dwill...at the moment... He's been hurt for a while.. but we'll see what happends.