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View Full Version : Edwin Jackson coming from TB



JackB
12-10-2008, 10:50 PM
Looks like we got a pitcher. Edwin Jackson in exchange for Joyce. Its also looks like we may be out of the running for JJ Putz. Looks like the Mets will do a three team deal. God i hate the thought of Rodney closing . I hate the thought of Rodney on the team. I hope DD is able to pull off a trade or sign somebody to close. Trusting Zumaya and Rodney to the back end of our bullpen is a scary thought.

mark1125
12-11-2008, 12:46 AM
Not sure I like this a lot. At least I am not sure about giving up Joyce for him. Maybe if Jackson can harness his control a bit. If we dealt Joyce, I was hoping it would be in a deal for Putz.

Question now becomes with Joyce gone and the Mets working a deal for Putz, who is on our closer radar now. I am getting worried.

Moneytime27
12-11-2008, 03:10 AM
read that Tampa entered the mix during discussions for Putz and Tigers had offered a package of Larish and Dolsi for Putz but couldnt get anything done with Seattle and they moved to the Mets and Indians. Jackson for Joyce straight up isnt a bad move for either team, Jackson is a good young starter but creates a logjam between Robertson, Miner and Willis as 5th starter. Dombrowski believes that Rodney can be the closer because he's pitching winter ball and will be motivated as an upcoming free agent, hopefully he has a nice year to maximize his trade value but other then that we have to hope that Casey Fien or Ryan Perry enter the mix or Freddy Dolsi because I dont think we are signing anybody at this point, Texas has apparently inquired about Sheffield though if Texas can at least pick up part of his salary and get next to nothing in return maybe we can free up some money for a Juan Cruz or Brandon Lyon

hoog
12-11-2008, 08:11 AM
Now we're talking. I love this deal. A 25 year old pitcher with a 14 win season who is getting better each year. Love it. I'll trade a batter the same age as a pitcher every day if their perfomance is on par. I can now check back end starter off my list. This guys young and has alot of success ahead of him. I feel much better about our starting pitching right now. Next on the list is to sign a late inning bullpen guy (Joe Beimel). Then to finish off the off-season I'd like to see a free agent signing of one of Cruz, Lyon, Hoffman, or Fuentes. I really don't want to trade any of our young guys anymore but Matt Capps from the Pirates intrigues me. He's younger and his strike to walk ratio is very good. The Pirates usually ask for the world in trades so I'm not sure anything would transpire but rumors are that they are willing to deal Capps. I'd still like to hang on to our young guys but he's the one guy out there that I might give up some for.

Lionsforlife
12-11-2008, 09:09 AM
I am actually impressed with this deal. We haven't been talking about upgrading our starting pitching lately and bam, a deal gets done. The only problem I see is that we now might be looking at an all right hand rotation. Either that or it just makes Robertson more likely to return to the rotation and leaves Miner out cold.

Although I didn't want to see Joyce dealt, I think that we have a couple of outfield prospects that we are high on (Ramirez, Wells) and still have Thomas and Clevlen. Of course, Joyce's left hand stick will be missed, but he was going to be the fourth outfielder anyway and was battling for playing time. We still have Larish for a lefty power stick.

Now we just have to sign Beimeil, Lyon or Cruz, and Smoltz and we could be okay.

drewstantontime
12-11-2008, 09:24 AM
I hate this trade, stupid stupid stupid. Now another great prospect is gone for a guy with a mid 4.41 ERA only 108 SO and anyone could have won 14 games on that team with they way the were playing but it takes talent to lose 11 on that team and guess how many games jackson lost? horrible trade, I hope Joyce becomes a monster player and this will be another trade that Dombrowski will get criticized for. Im dissapointed and I think there are plent of pitchers in free agency yet where we didnt have to part with Joyce. Stupid

Lionsforlife
12-11-2008, 12:44 PM
I don't understand why everyone sees Joyce as this great up and coming prospect, but pan Jackson as just another pitcher or even a project. Jackson is 25 and has been getting better every season. Everyone complained about are starters and he is definitely an upgrade.

Joyce was the 4th or 5th outfielder for a team that has a ton of outfield talent both in the bigs and minors. In fact, I am not sold that Joyce is going to be anything better than a left handed Thames. In fact, Joyce was unheard of before last year. To me Joyce is easier to replace than our starting pitching.

drewstantontime
12-11-2008, 01:15 PM
every player is unheard of until they are heard of, Joyce is going to be a stud for the Rays and Jackson maybe getting better but hes not that impressive, we'll see but id rather of had joyce

Lionsforlife
12-11-2008, 01:22 PM
every player is unheard of until they are heard of,

What I meant was that he wasn't a highly regarded prospect at all until he surprised last year. There are those that are deemed prospects early and he wasn't one of them. Not that it matters. My point was that we have a lot of OF prospects that we are high on that could turn out better than Joyce. I'm just saying Joyce will be more easily replaceable than finding a nice back end starter would have been.

drewstantontime
12-11-2008, 01:47 PM
he may have been a guy that we didnt really hear of but that doesnt mean to much, johan santana was a rule 5 draft pick and now look at him, talent is talent whether we see it coming or not.
We may have other outfielders in our farm system that we are high on, then we should have traded some of them, not Joyce. He was a lefthanded batter who had some pop in his bat, defensively was solid, and if we end up trading sheffield away he could have been played alot more in left field and thames could step into the DH role. I really like Thames hes a homerun machine, and i would rather see him DH then anything else. Unless we trade Willis or sheffield away for prospects im not happy with this deal

grizzly21
12-11-2008, 02:18 PM
why couldn't we get rid of larish instead of joyce. this kid could have been the long term replacement to ordonez in right field. Larish is useless as Cabrera's back up at first. Joyce would have played more of a role this year. Edwin Jackson is coming off his first good year. I dont get it? The guy is 25-30 for his career with a 5.15 era. I used to have a rule in Detroit and it was to not question Joe Dumars, Dave Dombroski, or Ken Holland, but after recent events 2 of the 3 aren't in that gruop anymore...

drewstantontime
12-11-2008, 02:41 PM
larrish could potentially be inges replacement at third but still, id rather keep larrish and joyce and porcello and that kid who is our up and coming shortstop(i forget his name right now) as the 4 farm system players who are untouchable but damn i guess thats not the case

theoldgoalie
12-11-2008, 06:31 PM
I hate this trade, stupid stupid stupid. Now another great prospect is gone for a guy with a mid 4.41 ERA only 108 SO and anyone could have won 14 games on that team with they way the were playing but it takes talent to lose 11 on that team and guess how many games jackson lost? horrible trade, I hope Joyce becomes a monster player and this will be another trade that Dombrowski will get criticized for. Im dissapointed and I think there are plent of pitchers in free agency yet where we didnt have to part with Joyce. Stupid


Anytime you can trade an outfielder for a young proven arm, I'm all for it. Picking up Jackson will solidify our starting rotation for awhile now. Verlander, Bonderman, Jackson, Gallaraga,Robertson, and even Willis for that matter are all young arms and lest we not forget, we have Porcello waiting in the wings. Outfielders are a dime a dozen. Sorry man, but Joyce ws good, but I don't think he is going to be the stud you think. This was a great deal and it filled a need for both teams.

Moneytime27
12-11-2008, 06:58 PM
Why is it people complain about trading away all of our young pitching prospects with the exception of Jurrjens who has done anything at this point ? but then we get a major league ready young starter for a spare outfielder and people complain about trading a spare outfielder ? fans seem to either want a fantasy team or a farm full of prospects however they cant help us playing in Lakeland or Erie or Toledo, we have Wilkin Ramirez and Casper Wells , Matt Joyce was expendable

JMDTM
12-11-2008, 08:50 PM
I don't understand why everyone sees Joyce as this great up and coming prospect, but pan Jackson as just another pitcher or even a project. Jackson is 25 and has been getting better every season. Everyone complained about are starters and he is definitely an upgrade.

Joyce was the 4th or 5th outfielder for a team that has a ton of outfield talent both in the bigs and minors. In fact, I am not sold that Joyce is going to be anything better than a left handed Thames. In fact, Joyce was unheard of before last year. To me Joyce is easier to replace than our starting pitching.

agreed. you can find outfielders a lot easier than pitchers

drewstantontime
12-11-2008, 09:13 PM
when we need a lefthanded hitter with pop in our lineup, you look at our team and joyce sticks out, with guillen on the verge of being expendable we could have slid joyce in there, i dont know, i wouldnt go as far as to say hes a proven pitcher yet either. a 4.42 era only 108 strike outs, granted he did pitch 189 innings or something which isnt bad but i would have rather taken my chances getting another pitcher whos available through free agency. theres plenty of good pitchers on the market, why trade away a prospect from our already depleted farm system. You guys are missing the point, its not completely because joyce is gone but its because we need to get a farm system thats at least decent. Joyce should still be a tiger. With Carlos Guillen and Maggs getting up in age and both not gonna be around to much longer i would have rather had joyce still around

Yes, We Deliver
12-11-2008, 10:41 PM
I don't mind the move. Joyce reminds me a bit of Bobby Higgenson. I predict his career will peak with a 30 home run 90 RBI season. I have no stats to back that prediction up. I'm just throwing it out there.

Jackson has a nasty fastball the looks like Jesus. We all know DD loves hard throwers and he got one for real. Now if Jackson can just locate it.

Lionsforlife
12-12-2008, 10:45 AM
Losing Joyce doesn't deplete our farm system at all in my opinion. Outfielders seem to be an area of strength. Pitching is our biggest weakness on the farm. But I do understand being upset at losing Joyce. I too liked him, but I like the fact we upgraded our starters. Would rather had a solid lefty in the rotation, but I'll take a 25 year old 14 game winner.

In fact, a fourth/fifth outfielder is much easier to replace than a fourth/fifth starter.

Epic89
12-12-2008, 11:00 AM
I used to have a rule in Detroit and it was to not question Joe Dumars, Dave Dombroski, or Ken Holland, but after recent events 2 of the 3 aren't in that gruop anymore...

Dumars is nowhere near as deep in the doghouse as DD. Not even close

Any way, like the Jackson deal; we needed a starter. But I swear, if they don't sign a closer and just use Rodney again; I'll wish bad things on them if they're that impossibly cheap/stupid

mark1125
12-12-2008, 01:43 PM
Dumars is nowhere near as deep in the doghouse as DD. Not even close

Any way, like the Jackson deal; we needed a starter. But I swear, if they don't sign a closer and just use Rodney again; I'll wish bad things on them if they're that impossibly cheap/stupid

I have never agreed with something so strongly in my life. If Rodney is our closer, we are doomed. HE SUCKS!!!!! Why does no one in the Tiger front office think otherwise. Heck, Juan Cruz, Smoltz, Lyon, etc would be better options and not cost THAT much.

Lionsforlife
12-12-2008, 02:59 PM
Actually, if we don't get a different closer that would make me like this trade less. I am a big fan of this trade as long as we upgrade the bullpen too. Otherwise this wouldn't make sense to me. I want to see Beimel, Cruz or Lyon and Smoltz. And then cut Rodney. A man can dream.

mark1125
12-12-2008, 03:18 PM
I would give Rodney to any team that wanted him I dislike him THAT much.

For whatever reason, he has the Tiger brass snowed.

scottie
12-12-2008, 04:01 PM
I don't understand why everyone sees Joyce as this great up and coming prospect, but pan Jackson as just another pitcher or even a project. Jackson is 25 and has been getting better every season. Everyone complained about are starters and he is definitely an upgrade.

Joyce was the 4th or 5th outfielder for a team that has a ton of outfield talent both in the bigs and minors. In fact, I am not sold that Joyce is going to be anything better than a left handed Thames. In fact, Joyce was unheard of before last year. To me Joyce is easier to replace than our starting pitching.

Dark Horse: Jackson could be a great Relief pitcher. I think the Tigers are going to sign a big free agent (Peavy?) and put this guy in for long innings and mid relief. Or he's a 5th starter.

The tigers are hurting everywhere but outfield guys. We can't even get Thames full time work, because the outfield was full. Joyce was an average player who shined more because our stars struggled. He has a good upside, but when upside doesn't pan out were in trouble.

Bondomania
12-12-2008, 04:51 PM
Peavy isn't a free agent... Thames doesn't get fulltime work because he gets he isn't that good as a fulltime guy. Pitchers figure him out and he gets worked over pretty tough... Jackson is actually pretty bad in relief.. look up his numbers as a starter vs. relief, they aren't very pretty