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IndiansFan337
12-08-2008, 03:19 AM
A source told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal that the Rangers have agreed to trade Gerald Laird to the Tigers for Guillermo Moscoso and a second prospect.
It looks like a nice trade for the Tigers. Moscoso could be a No. 3 starter, and the Tigers can scarcely afford to give up pitching. However, he's already 25, he's yet to pitch above Double-A and he has a history of significant shoulder issues. The second prospect is a 17-year-old who spent last year in the DSL, according to Rosenthal. Laird gives the Tigers the reliable regular catcher they weren't going to find in free agency. He's under control for two more years and will likely make about $3 million in 2009.
Rotoworld.com

babygranderson
12-08-2008, 07:20 AM
Rotoworld.com

This makes me a very happy Tig's fan! With respect to Pudge, his defense has stunk the last few years...04 was Ok at best, but the last few have been ugly. Brandon is an athlete behind the plate, not a catcher.

Laird is Damn Solid. He's the guy I wanted all along. His price is reasonable and he is a CATCHER. He isn't a huge #1 guy, so when Ryan sees the field, he probably won't take it as a slap in the face to his ego (pudge). Under contract for two years is PERFECT.

Some of you guys follow the minors more than I do, I've never seen Moscoso (sp?) pitch, and sounds like he's got a power arm, but I've wondered all along how good can he possibly be - approaching 26 years old and just escaping A ball to AA this year???

I like the fact that Laird isn't pushing 40. I am digging this trade.

hoog
12-08-2008, 08:15 AM
Not sure I like this deal too much. First we give up two young Latin pitchers with a lot of potential and very strong arms with strike out (low walk) ability. Then, it sounds as if this deal curtails the Wilson trade. Which means we are after Everett and Punto. I think we should have learned about giving up young pitching last year. I don't think Laird should have required a top 10 prospect pitcher let alone another on top of that. It looks as if the infactuation of Laird and the supposed competition for him got the best of DD. All this being said, I think Laird is an excellent addition but I think he should have cost much less.

For the record: Moscoso's stats at Erie were a 3-1 record, 50 strike outs with only 8 walks in 34 innings, he had a 3.14 ERA. At Lakeland he had a 2-3 record, 72 strike outs with 13 walks in 52 innings, and he had a 2.42 ERA. He throws hard with movement and is compared to Jair Jurjjens. The best thing for me from above is he throws strikes and doesn't walk many. The 17 year old is Carlos Melo from the DSL league. He is said to already have a 92 to 96mph "explosive" fastball (at 17 years old) and has a promising curve/change up.

Lionsforlife
12-08-2008, 10:29 AM
I like it. He is a defensive catcher signed for two years who can hit decent (.276 last year-but has had down years as well). He's only 29 which is alot better than all the other older prospects.

The only part I don't like is this will probably be the only major trade we do, So we probably are done looking at Wilson (Who is better than the FA SS that we are looking at.)

RicoSteel
12-08-2008, 11:34 AM
Not sure I like this deal too much. First we give up two young Latin pitchers with a lot of potential and very strong arms with strike out (low walk) ability. Then, it sounds as if this deal curtails the Wilson trade. Which means we are after Everett and Punto. I think we should have learned about giving up young pitching last year. I don't think Laird should have required a top 10 prospect pitcher let alone another on top of that. It looks as if the infactuation of Laird and the supposed competition for him got the best of DD. All this being said, I think Laird is an excellent addition but I think he should have cost much less.

For the record: Moscoso's stats at Erie were a 3-1 record, 50 strike outs with only 8 walks in 34 innings, he had a 3.14 ERA. At Lakeland he had a 2-3 record, 72 strike outs with 13 walks in 52 innings, and he had a 2.42 ERA. He throws hard with movement and is compared to Jair Jurjjens. The best thing for me from above is he throws strikes and doesn't walk many. The 17 year old is Carlos Melo from the DSL league. He is said to already have a 92 to 96mph "explosive" fastball (at 17 years old) and has a promising curve/change up.

Matt Anderson had an "explosive" fastball too. So What. This is a good trade. Now grab Punto as a stop-gap and start to address the bullpen.

Roy31
12-08-2008, 12:49 PM
I'm glad we gave you guys Laird and not one of our better Catchers.

Bondomania
12-08-2008, 01:54 PM
alright.. first off, Moscoso has had injury problems that he has dealt with early in his career, which really slowed his development. I wouldn't classify Moscoso's fastball as overpowering, 91-93 with decent movement. Can occassionally reach back for a bit more, but it really straightens out. He throws a slurve, which has decent bite to it, however, sometimes struggles to get on top of it, which causes it to float a bit. He also has a changeup which is a solid pitch as well. He has a splitter at one point, had some success with it, however, he scrapped it for some reason.. could be a decent pitch if he brings it back. He is a fly-ball pitcher, so he might have some problems pitching in Texas at home. He might not contribute though this year, as he still needs to be stretch out, he hasn't pitched more than 90 innings in one season so far.. and in Winter leagues it has been reported that he is tiring and he is getting lit up with an ERA over 8.

The other kid pitches consistantly 92-94, however, he can reach back to get 96-97 if needed. But he is still a while away from being able to contribute, as his curve lacks consistancy and consistant bite.

Overall, i like this trade. It addresses an immediate need, while we didn't give up much for him. We gave up a guy that would have been in the BP at best for us, and a kid that is 17 and still needs a lot more seasoning before he sniffs the big leagues. Meanwhile, we were able to keep most of our young pitching depth from lakeland and west michigan. Laird can handle a pitching staff, hits for some power, primarily a gap hitter, and will allow Dusty Ryan and Alex Avila to develop more. Moscoso was a fringe top 10 prospect at best, yes he had success last year, but he has never put up the numbers he has like last year. So it could have been more that he was on one hell of a hot streak.. plus he is an older prospect.

drewstantontime
12-08-2008, 04:23 PM
i love this trade, and your right power arms dont mean anything unless you can use it, matt anderson was a great example, or even franklin german, id rather get a guy in laird who defensively behind the plate is a sure thing and give away 2 guys who have potential but not right now, great trade go get punto id love to see punto as our ss he may not hit like a champ but his defense is great and if our guys who are here to hit, start hitting then were in good shape, no go get some pitching

babygranderson
12-08-2008, 10:30 PM
alright.. first off, Moscoso has had injury problems that he has dealt with early in his career, which really slowed his development. I wouldn't classify Moscoso's fastball as overpowering, 91-93 with decent movement. Can occassionally reach back for a bit more, but it really straightens out. He throws a slurve, which has decent bite to it, however, sometimes struggles to get on top of it, which causes it to float a bit. He also has a changeup which is a solid pitch as well. He has a splitter at one point, had some success with it, however, he scrapped it for some reason.. could be a decent pitch if he brings it back. He is a fly-ball pitcher, so he might have some problems pitching in Texas at home. He might not contribute though this year, as he still needs to be stretch out, he hasn't pitched more than 90 innings in one season so far.. and in Winter leagues it has been reported that he is tiring and he is getting lit up with an ERA over 8.

The other kid pitches consistantly 92-94, however, he can reach back to get 96-97 if needed. But he is still a while away from being able to contribute, as his curve lacks consistancy and consistant bite.

Overall, i like this trade. It addresses an immediate need, while we didn't give up much for him. We gave up a guy that would have been in the BP at best for us, and a kid that is 17 and still needs a lot more seasoning before he sniffs the big leagues. Meanwhile, we were able to keep most of our young pitching depth from lakeland and west michigan. Laird can handle a pitching staff, hits for some power, primarily a gap hitter, and will allow Dusty Ryan and Alex Avila to develop more. Moscoso was a fringe top 10 prospect at best, yes he had success last year, but he has never put up the numbers he has like last year. So it could have been more that he was on one hell of a hot streak.. plus he is an older prospect.

Bondo, how do you know all this? I am not doubting any claims. Have you seen him pitch live or do you check out minor league scouting reports? Your observations about other minor leaguers are detailed, too. Just curious.

MooseWithFleas
12-08-2008, 10:40 PM
Great acquisition. Laird will being solid D to a team who needs it, he also calls a good game which will be very useful with the tigers young staff

jasonmdkff
12-08-2008, 11:21 PM
Warning to the auto makers: Gerald Laird will cry and pout like a baby the first time Leyland doesnt have him in the starting lineup.

But he is a nice defensive catcher, great speed for that position, will be able to get a few bunt base hits, likey to have 4-6 triples, throws nicely, average BA, with some surprising pop every now and then.

The only negative thing I can say... You will have club house issues if he is not on the line-up card, each and every day... But it is hard to fault a guy that wants to play....

Young2Kinsler
12-09-2008, 12:59 AM
Solid guy all around, trade makes sense on both ends. I liked Laird, but this opens the Teagarden/Salty showdown. Best of luck to Laird in Detroit

Sheffies Chef
12-09-2008, 01:05 AM
Bondo, how do you know all this? I am not doubting any claims. Have you seen him pitch live or do you check out minor league scouting reports? Your observations about other minor leaguers are detailed, too. Just curious.

Both Bondo and I post on the Tigstown forum on Scout.com (unless someone else is using that name of tigstown bondo lol).

There are:

A.) Some very knowledgeable/Well Connected posters (Casper Wells dad posts on there for instance, we have guys who know/related to scouts that post on there)

B.) Some of those posters are "insiders" in the Tigers organization. Mark Anderson (a frequent poster), has lots of info that he shares with us posters (there is great "inside" info for those willing to shell out some dollars lol).

Tigstown is big for prospects and reports. Those "insiders" have seen lots and lots of our prospects play live and have talked to the Tigers brass about them. They are very reliable.

So by becoming a member there, we became more knowledgeable.

So thats how we know this stuff. And if I remember correctly, Bondo is an "Inside Payer". So he would know more than me (not a "Premium Subscriber")

Hope that clears it up bro :)

babygranderson
12-09-2008, 02:53 AM
Both Bondo and I post on the Tigstown forum on Scout.com (unless someone else is using that name of tigstown bondo lol).

There are:

A.) Some very knowledgeable/Well Connected posters (Casper Wells dad posts on there for instance, we have guys who know/related to scouts that post on there)

B.) Some of those posters are "insiders" in the Tigers organization. Mark Anderson (a frequent poster), has lots of info that he shares with us posters (there is great "inside" info for those willing to shell out some dollars lol).

Tigstown is big for prospects and reports. Those "insiders" have seen lots and lots of our prospects play live and have talked to the Tigers brass about them. They are very reliable.

So by becoming a member there, we became more knowledgeable.

So thats how we know this stuff. And if I remember correctly, Bondo is an "Inside Payer". So he would know more than me (not a "Premium Subscriber")

Hope that clears it up bro :)

Shef,

wow, thanks for the heads-up. A lot of the stuff you guys post hits home with the former player in me and goes far beyond just opinion type stuff on the avg messageboard. I've always been too lazy to check out t -town...but not anymore....THANKS

Bondomania
12-09-2008, 12:26 PM
yeah, that's where i get a lot of scouting reports, and get detailed info on exactly what players throw, how hard, what type of movement.. as well as their standing in the organization.. FYI if you are going to post on there though, you better know what you are talking about.. they will tear you one if you go on there throwing up some non-sense.. not that you do.. just fair warning

babygranderson
12-09-2008, 02:40 PM
yeah, that's where i get a lot of scouting reports, and get detailed info on exactly what players throw, how hard, what type of movement.. as well as their standing in the organization.. FYI if you are going to post on there though, you better know what you are talking about.. they will tear you one if you go on there throwing up some non-sense.. not that you do.. just fair warning

Thanks for the info...looks like a great site. Maybe I'll join up. Wonder why they rank only Porcello & Holliman as Tig's best prospects? If Holliman is a better prospect than either Worth or Iorg, why is DD (and the rest of us) all geeked up for 2010 -- when one or both of them are ready??? Why did Holliman fall out of the mix? He seemed to do OK with his cup of coffee last year...

Why aren't the other blue chip relievers that are supposed to be MLB ready (possible in-house closing solutions)? It doesn't make sense that there was an opening @ short, Holliman was our 2nd best prospect, and he isn't a consideration, but two guys are supposed to be our savior(s) at Short aren't on the radar?

Can you or Shef school me on this?

Bondomania
12-09-2008, 05:38 PM
Hollimon hurt himself at the end of the season.. also Hollimon didn't really impress at AAA.. look at his numbers from the past year.. plus i believe that Hollimon projects more as a 2B or 3B.. but i believe it was the injury that took him out of consideration.

Iorg is the 2nd best prospect after this past year.. both Hollimon and Worth slipped.. Relief prospects typically don't rank as high because the minors are filled with guys that can be bullpen arms.. Starters usually rank higher because of their overall impact every 5th day.. i dunno, ranking prospects is silly, filled with tons of different calculations and stuff..

Detroit70
12-10-2008, 06:23 PM
Not a bad trade at all. We filled a team need and that was critical. As far as the prospects go take it easy!!!!!!!!

Sheffies Chef
12-13-2008, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the info...looks like a great site. Maybe I'll join up. Wonder why they rank only Porcello & Holliman as Tig's best prospects? If Holliman is a better prospect than either Worth or Iorg, why is DD (and the rest of us) all geeked up for 2010 -- when one or both of them are ready??? Why did Holliman fall out of the mix? He seemed to do OK with his cup of coffee last year...

Why aren't the other blue chip relievers that are supposed to be MLB ready (possible in-house closing solutions)? It doesn't make sense that there was an opening @ short, Holliman was our 2nd best prospect, and he isn't a consideration, but two guys are supposed to be our savior(s) at Short aren't on the radar?

Can you or Shef school me on this?

if you join up, give us a shoutout so we know who you are, just look out for a poster called DTMFR if post anything negative about Moscoso, he has a love affair with him, won't hear a word against him, and figured he should have been #1 on the prospects list. Also, guys like Iammound and Mark Anderson (one of the runners of T-Town) are two very, very, very, intelligent posters. that is the place to go for good facts vs very good talk on PSD (nothing against PSD though, they got me started on forum posting). I post under the name of STATMAN2012 at T-Town, and Bondo kept his name over there.

as for your question:

If you notice, those rankings were established before last season, so Iorg, and Worth weren't the most thought of.

I could see a future infield rotation of Cabrera at first, Hollimon at 2B, Worth/Iorg at SS, and Worth/Iorg at 3B, if Danny, Mike, and Cale all progress like they are supposed to.

Technically, we don't have any "blue-chip" relievers besides Perry possibly. we just have a bunch of guys like Fien, Rudy Darrow, and others who have chances to contribute at the big-league level. but none have been tabbed as make or break relievers.

know what i'm saying bro?

babygranderson
12-14-2008, 03:36 AM
if you join up, give us a shoutout so we know who you are, just look out for a poster called DTMFR if post anything negative about Moscoso, he has a love affair with him, won't hear a word against him, and figured he should have been #1 on the prospects list. Also, guys like Iammound and Mark Anderson (one of the runners of T-Town) are two very, very, very, intelligent posters. that is the place to go for good facts vs very good talk on PSD (nothing against PSD though, they got me started on forum posting). I post under the name of STATMAN2012 at T-Town, and Bondo kept his name over there.

as for your question:

If you notice, those rankings were established before last season, so Iorg, and Worth weren't the most thought of.

I could see a future infield rotation of Cabrera at first, Hollimon at 2B, Worth/Iorg at SS, and Worth/Iorg at 3B, if Danny, Mike, and Cale all progress like they are supposed to.

Technically, we don't have any "blue-chip" relievers besides Perry possibly. we just have a bunch of guys like Fien, Rudy Darrow, and others who have chances to contribute at the big-league level. but none have been tabbed as make or break relievers.

know what i'm saying bro?

Chef...I thought I responded to this once, I must not have clicked submit or something. With Christmas coming, I'll probaby wait until santa takes care of the family before I cough up the cheese to join Tigs town - If I do, I'll let ya know....sounds cool to me.

Thanks for schooling me to my "holliman/scouting report" post. I didn't pay attention to when those rankings were created - makes sense to me now.

Sheffies Chef
12-14-2008, 11:29 PM
you don't have to pay to join Tigstown.

Thats only if you wanna be an "IN SUBSCRIBER".

I'm not. So it's perfectly free for me to post their.

No problem lol

nygiants242
12-15-2008, 02:27 AM
fellas fellas... lets not fight here play nice :)

Sheffies Chef
12-15-2008, 07:41 PM
whose fighting?

Sheffies Chef
12-15-2008, 07:41 PM
unless you wanna go you scallawag!

Sheffies Chef
12-15-2008, 07:42 PM
WOOHOO!!!













































































500 posts. I'm a posting beast.






























































maybe i need to get a life?