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The Prodigy
11-29-2008, 12:39 AM
Based on what we seen this year who is the most overrated and underrated players in the league and why.

OVERRATED-Andre Igudala because now that he isnt a first option and the ball is not running through him. Also Elton Brand because he really isnt living up to the hype of the Sixers.

Underrated-Danny Granger because he is like the Joe Johnson of last year for the Pacers but with not as good supporting cast. Also Thadeus Young, he is performing better as igudola and doesnt get as much respect as him through out the leauge

unwantedplayer
11-29-2008, 12:56 AM
Overrated- Gilbert Arenas- Need I say?

Underrated- Kendrick Perkins- Nobody realizes what a force he is on the defensive end.

kylem4711
11-29-2008, 01:16 AM
Overrated- Gilbert Arenas- Need I say?

Underrated- Kendrick Perkins- Nobody realizes what a force he is on the defensive end.

ha

perkins? come on....

and gilbert hasn't played. if anything he is underrated look at how many games they have won without him.

hdxstunts1
11-29-2008, 01:18 AM
Over - Kobe (like always) and the lakers

Under - Rose, and the bulls playing well even with harder competition!

Lizard King
11-29-2008, 01:48 AM
Overrated- Luol Deng. Actually, he's more of a disappointment

Underrated- Leon Powe.

still1ballin
11-29-2008, 02:00 AM
Over - Kobe (like always) and the lakers

Under - Rose, and the bulls playing well even with harder competition!

Your're right man. Kobe and the Lakers are overated. That MVP was a fluke.:rolleyes:

*Superman*
11-29-2008, 02:07 AM
I was gonna make this thread for for teams this season.

Teeboy1487
11-29-2008, 02:07 AM
How are the lakers overated and they are 13-1. Your comment is stupid rated lol.

x_notorious
11-29-2008, 02:33 AM
Over - Kobe (like always) and the lakers

Under - Rose, and the bulls playing well even with harder competition!

What's the reasoning behind that? Or is it just a personal hate of the best team record wise in the NBA?

KobeIs
11-29-2008, 02:53 AM
Over - Kobe (like always) and the lakers

Under - Rose, and the bulls playing well even with harder competition!

wow can there ever be a thread without there being laker hatin?

it's pretty immature. give respect when it's deserved. but i do agree with you about rose. kids really good.

hdxstunts1
11-29-2008, 02:57 AM
im not a hater, i just dont see the big deal of the lakers this year yes they are doing well, really well but they were supposed to do well. IN my opinion they've only had three games were they played a team that actually played well against them most of the other games the other team sucked, or they had a bad night. I like the lakers but i just dont see the why everyone is so exsatic over them this season.

lavell12
11-29-2008, 03:01 AM
Overrated: LeBron (sure he is great but that make him out to be better than MJ. I'm so sick and tired of every time a trade is made espn talking about the team preparing for LeBron in 2010. STFU already that two years away.

Underrated: Danny Granger and Joe Johnson are two super stars.

Kings Faithful
11-29-2008, 03:17 AM
wow can there ever be a thread without there being laker hatin?

it's pretty immature. give respect when it's deserved.

Coming from the fan's that refuse to stop calling the Kings and their fans the "Queens".....:rolleyes:

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 03:32 AM
im going to go with teams and not players

Overrated- LAKERS--yes they are 12-1, but kobe isnt playing incredibly well. the first 1/2 tonight he was forcing shots. fisher and sasha take rediculous shots often, and their defense isnt the same as it was during that first 5 game stretch. not to mention who did they really beat so far?? they have had a pretty soft schedule all things considered. that being said they are still my favorite to win it all.

Underrated- Utah...they have already proven that they are very deep after wins without their best 2. not saying they can beat LA nor Boston in a series just yet but after those 2 they are definately in contention IMO

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 03:35 AM
Overrated: LeBron (sure he is great but that make him out to be better than MJ. I'm so sick and tired of every time a trade is made espn talking about the team preparing for LeBron in 2010. STFU already that two years away.

Underrated: Danny Granger and Joe Johnson are two super stars.

i agree with both.
JJ and Granger are beastly and Lebron is always considered as having the potential to be better than jordan....mark my words...Lebron will NEVER be better than Jordan. that being said, he will definately be a top 5-30 player ever

G-Funk
11-29-2008, 03:42 AM
the whole bulls team is overrated other than Rose.

ink
11-29-2008, 03:52 AM
Overrated- Gilbert Arenas- Need I say?

Underrated- Kendrick Perkins- Nobody realizes what a force he is on the defensive end.

I've been saying for two years that Perkins is underrated. So is Rondo.

----

And for people who think the Lakers are overrated. Get over it. They're not. This is the most balanced roster in the NBA, with the Celtics a close second.

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 03:55 AM
I've been saying for two years that Perkins is underrated. So is Rondo.

----

And for people who think the Lakers are overrated. Get over it. They're not. This is the most balanced roster in the NBA, with the Celtics a close second.

i still think they are the favorites, but they arent as good as their record implies. they have a LOT of work to do if they are going to win it all.

ink
11-29-2008, 03:59 AM
i still think they are the favorites, but they arent as good as their record implies. they have a LOT of work to do if they are going to win it all.

The difference IMO is that the Celtics have more big game players, and the Lakers have more overall talent. But in a series it's a tough matchup and the Celtics could win again.

CHRISDODGERS
11-29-2008, 03:59 AM
Overrated: Luol Deng... I just don't see it...

Underrated: Rudy Fernandez.... stud...

laker1000
11-29-2008, 04:51 AM
im not a hater, i just dont see the big deal of the lakers this year yes they are doing well, really well but they were supposed to do well. IN my opinion they've only had three games were they played a team that actually played well against them most of the other games the other team sucked, or they had a bad night. I like the lakers but i just dont see the why everyone is so exsatic over them this season.

If the other team had a bad night, that is because we played good defense.

Wade_County
11-29-2008, 04:51 AM
Its funny how people think 2 of the top 3 players in the NBA(Lebron and Kobe) are overrated.

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 05:02 AM
The difference IMO is that the Celtics have more big game players, and the Lakers have more overall talent. But in a series it's a tough matchup and the Celtics could win again.

im a laker man so i hope they get it 100% ready, but I agree entirely

DerekRE_3
11-29-2008, 06:51 AM
Overrated: Andre Iguodala, Ron Artest, Tracy McGrady (Artest and T-Mac are underperforming)

Underrated: John Salmons - Averaging 20 ppg on 51% shooting, not bad.

MagicBucsSox
11-29-2008, 08:08 AM
overrated-dirk
underrated-rudy gay but i wanna put d-wade its really a toss up who is better between him in lebron

SteveNash
11-29-2008, 08:22 AM
Overrated - Rookies and breakout players who are being judged after less than 20 games.
Underrated - Established stars whose numbers are down after 20 games.

TMAC94
11-29-2008, 08:25 AM
Overrated: Luol Deng... I just don't see it...

Underrated: Rudy Fernandez.... stud...


Fernandez is beast, i know his a rookie but i watched the first game portland played against miami, with 2 minutes to go he took charge, spun and hit a fadeaway, but he was in so much control like he was a nba vet instead of a rookie.

JJ81
11-29-2008, 08:31 AM
You cant really overrate the best

innovator
11-29-2008, 09:00 AM
im going to go with teams and not players

Overrated- LAKERS--yes they are 12-1, but kobe isnt playing incredibly well. the first 1/2 tonight he was forcing shots. fisher and sasha take rediculous shots often, and their defense isnt the same as it was during that first 5 game stretch. not to mention who did they really beat so far?? they have had a pretty soft schedule all things considered. that being said they are still my favorite to win it all.

Underrated- Utah...they have already proven that they are very deep after wins without their best 2. not saying they can beat LA nor Boston in a series just yet but after those 2 they are definately in contention IMO

PORTLAND (11-6)
DENVER (10-6) 2x
HOUSTON (10-6)
DALLAS (7-8) 2x still they are a good team
NEW ORLEANS (9-6)
PHOENIX (11-6)

and kobe doesnt need to play incredibly well cuz he doesnt need to since his teamates have improved alot.

North Yorker
11-29-2008, 10:23 AM
Overrated- Gilbert Arenas- Need I say?

Underrated- Kendrick Perkins- Nobody realizes what a force he is on the defensive end.

PERKINS!LOL

He is horrrible on defence. When the Raps played him they just dumped the ball into JO every time and he absolutely DOMINATED him the entire game. Then they put KG on JO and then Bosh dominated him.

He gets all his points from getting the wide open dunk becasue all the teams focus on the Big 3. Perkins is no better than Rasho Nesterovic or Brendan Haywood.

LakerzDQ
11-29-2008, 10:32 AM
PORTLAND (11-6)
DENVER (10-6) 2x
HOUSTON (10-6)
DALLAS (7-8) 2x still they are a good team
NEW ORLEANS (9-6)
PHOENIX (11-6)

and kobe doesnt need to play incredibly well cuz he doesnt need to since his teamates have improved alot.

also, they played the raptors and the pistons
yeah, 10 of their 14 games were against legitimate playoff teams. there's no fluke in that.

jkiddvc20
11-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Overrated-Andrew Bynum I mean I am sorry Lakers fans I have nothing against you guys and they are by far the best team in the league I just think Bynum is looked up as this superstar when he has not proven anything yet. He is an average player at best not a star

Underrated-Devin Harris the guy is averging 23 ppg and 6 assists and is right now playing as maybe the best PG in the East but gets no fame.

innovator
11-29-2008, 10:49 AM
also, they played the raptors and the pistons
yeah, 10 of their 14 games were against legitimate playoff teams. there's no fluke in that.

we havent played the raptors

LakerzDQ
11-29-2008, 10:51 AM
we havent played the raptors

oh, I'm just speaking ahead of time. 2 days later, my post will make sense.

DenButsu
11-29-2008, 10:52 AM
I think Melo has really gone under recognized for the strides he's made this season due to the decrease in his scoring. But all the things everybody has always knocked him for his whole career, he's improved in just about every possible way but scoring... defensively, rebounding, assists, a more selfless, team-oriented mentality, leadership, and above all better defense (oh, did I already mention that? :rolleyes: )

Weezy
11-29-2008, 10:52 AM
Overrated: Mo Williams....I just dont see him as a consistant force for Cleveland throughout the year and in the playoffs. Nothing against Cleveland or anything mostly against Mo LOL :D

Underrated: Wilson Chandler!!!! :)!

BALLER71
11-29-2008, 10:53 AM
The 76ers team.

Weezy
11-29-2008, 10:53 AM
I think Melo has really gone under recognized for the strides he's made this season due to the decrease in his scoring. But all the things everybody has always knocked him for his whole career, he's improved in just about every possible way but scoring... defensively, rebounding, assists, a more selfless, team-oriented mentality, leadership, and above all better defense (oh, did I already mention that? :rolleyes: )

Yea your right, he might not be scoring like he used to by being one of the top PPG leaders but he is def playing more team oriented and so far you guys are looking better like that and of course you got Billups added to that :D

innovator
11-29-2008, 11:20 AM
OVERATED: Elton Brand, Shawn Marion
UNDERATED: Al Thornton, Thaddeus Young, John Salmons

daleja424
11-29-2008, 12:01 PM
PORTLAND (11-6)
DENVER (10-6) 2x
HOUSTON (10-6)
DALLAS (7-8) 2x still they are a good team
NEW ORLEANS (9-6)
PHOENIX (11-6)

and kobe doesnt need to play incredibly well cuz he doesnt need to since his teamates have improved alot.

I know this isnt what this thread is about but some lakers fans will argue anything. One moment Lakers fans are arguing that Kobe should be MVP and now one says Kobe hasn't been very good but we win bc the team is good. You can't have it both ways. The honest way is to say that Kobe has not been very good but the Lakers have been excellent. No Kobe for MVP...

With that in mind...
Overrated-> Kobe Bryant... it is mind boggling that people still argue that this guy should win MVP this year...
Underrated-> Udonis Haslem... man even got left off the allstar ballot but is a very solid player.

nygiants242
11-29-2008, 12:02 PM
Overrated - Shawn Marion
Underrated - Ramon Sessions

innovator
11-29-2008, 12:03 PM
I know this isnt what this thread is about but some lakers fans will argue anything. One moment Lakers fans are arguing that Kobe should be MVP and now one says Kobe hasn't been very good but we win bc the team is good. You can't have it both ways. The honest way is to say that Kobe has not been very good but the Lakers have been excellent. No Kobe for MVP...

With that in mind...
Overrated-> Kobe Bryant... it is mind boggling that people still argue that this guy should win MVP this year...
Underrated-> Udonis Haslem... man even got left off the allstar ballot but is a very solid player.

as a kobe fan i have to admit that kobe shouldnt be the MVP this season but LEBRON JAMES

daleja424
11-29-2008, 12:05 PM
as a kobe fan i have to admit that kobe shouldnt be the MVP this season but LEBRON JAMES

Im glad to hear that... I think you are one of the few Lakers fans that can actually admit that though...

daleja424
11-29-2008, 12:05 PM
Overrated - Shawn Marion
Underrated - Ramon Sessions

How is marion overrated. Everyone thinks he sucks but he still goes for 15/10...doesnt that make him UNDERRATED?!?!

I mean I have never ever met a non Heat/Suns fan that didn't hate on Shawn Marion. How is a player that everyone thinks sucks overrated?

JayW_1023
11-29-2008, 12:08 PM
Underrated: Chauncey Billups

He has really turned the Nuggets around and allow his teammates to produce. He gives Denver a defensive presence on the perimeter and his unselfish team first attitude has rubbed off on his teammates. Denver is not only a better defensive team but a much more efficient on offense, less reliant on isolation plays and more on off the ball movement. Billups is the biggest reason for Denvers surge as a contender.

Overrated: Allen Iverson

In Detroit he can't get away of pursuing his personal agenda. He is now on a team with seasoned veterans of which many have earned a ring. No longer can he jack up 25 shots and stop the ball movement with his overdribbling. So far the results have been mixed and it is gonna be tough for Iverson to adjust in a more balanced team oriented game. He will be held accountable if he acts against team interests. It should be a wake up call for him.

daleja424
11-29-2008, 12:09 PM
Underrated: Chauncey Billups

He has really turned the Nuggets around and allow his teammates to produce. He gives Denver a defensive presence on the perimeter and his unselfish team first attitude has rubbed off on his teammates. Denver is not only a better defensive team but a much more efficient on offense, less reliant on isolation plays and more on off the ball movement. Billups is the biggest reason for Denvers surge as a contender.

Overrated: Allen Iverson

In Detroit he can't get away of pursuing his personal agenda. He is now on a team with seasoned veterans of which many have earned a ring. No longer can he jack up 25 shots and stop the ball movement with his overdribbling. So far the results have been mixed and it is gonna be tough for Iverson to adjust in a more balanced team oriented game. He will be held accountable if he acts against team interests. It should be a wake up call for him.

:clap::clap::clap: Good ONE!

DenButsu
11-29-2008, 12:33 PM
Yea your right, he might not be scoring like he used to by being one of the top PPG leaders but he is def playing more team oriented and so far you guys are looking better like that and of course you got Billups added to that :D

Absolutely true, and the only reason I didn't mention him was because he's been in the spotlight due to the trade, and therefore imho hasn't been "underrated" since he's getting lots of love. But you're right.

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 12:34 PM
PORTLAND (11-6)
DENVER (10-6) 2x
HOUSTON (10-6)
DALLAS (7-8) 2x still they are a good team
NEW ORLEANS (9-6)
PHOENIX (11-6)

and kobe doesnt need to play incredibly well cuz he doesnt need to since his teamates have improved alot.

good point...i saw that their opponents average records were above .500 but i dont see myself surreally confident in them until they beat a super contending team(boston, CLE, PISTONS...damn they should have won that. it shouldnt have been close) im still waiting for them to play some actual defense oriented teams too. houston is injury plagued and is underperforming so far(that is to be expected with the injuries and lack of team experience). all in all their schedule has been tougher than i realized tho

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 12:36 PM
as a kobe fan i have to admit that kobe shouldnt be the MVP this season but LEBRON JAMES

woa...slow your roll...im a kobe and laker fan too, but if they win above 60 or 65 games, and their av margin of victory is 10-15+...kobe has to win it

daleja424
11-29-2008, 12:41 PM
woa...slow your roll...im a kobe and laker fan too, but if they win above 60 or 65 games, and their av margin of victory is 10-15+...kobe has to win it

but kobe has not been the reason you won. Last year the Lakers won a lot and kobe was leading the charge every night...so he won. This KObe has been pedestrian by superstar standards but his team has won games anyways...

td0tsfinest
11-29-2008, 12:53 PM
Overated: Andre Igoudala, Entire starting line of the Bobcats team except Gerald Wallace (Okafor, Felton, J-Rich, May) + Adam Morrison, Kevin Durant, Daniel Gibson

Underated: Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson, David West

barreleffact
11-29-2008, 12:55 PM
but kobe has not been the reason you won. Last year the Lakers won a lot and kobe was leading the charge every night...so he won. This KObe has been pedestrian by superstar standards but his team has won games anyways...

kobe is still averaging decent numbers, but he's also playing 7 less minutes, AND is being an absolute beast on the defensive end. His leadership is th ereason the lakers are where they are. even if not 100% necessarily his lvl of play.

cardinals1226
11-29-2008, 01:06 PM
Underrated: The Pacers, TJ Ford and Danny Granger

The Pacers have a loosing record, but are 2-8 in games where the score was 7 or less point. They have played some of the East's top teams close, barely lost to Detroit to start the season and beat the Celtics in their home opener by 27, recently get big wins against New Jersey, Atlanta, and Houston. Plus, this team went from one of the worst defenses last year to one of the best.

Ford and Granger deserve a lot of credit. They have been leading this team averaging a combined 39.1 points per game, Granger averaging 24 points per game and Ford 15.1. Ford is the PG the Pacers have always needed, a pass first guard with 5.5 assists per game and taking a lot of pressure off Granger to become a superstar.

Nearly everyone had them as a bottom feeder in the East, which they still might, but have shown sparks of being a top 4-5 team in the East next year and a possible playoff spot this year.

JayW_1023
11-29-2008, 01:12 PM
Kobe is playing more under control but I would love to see him post up more like Jordan used and sometimes go up and under instead of always settling for those fade-away J's. He is skilled enough to get any shot he likes on the floor so I never understood his knack for attempting ridiculously tough shots with hands in his face. Even if he can hit them with more ease then anyone else in the league, he would really improve his FG% is he chose to go for a better shot. On the defensive end he has been impressive so far and really being a catalyst.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-29-2008, 01:16 PM
Overrated: The FA signings of J. O'neal, Ron Artest and Elton Brand. They were supposed to help make their team better which hasn't happened AT ALL. The Western Conference because they ARE weaker then the East (the head to head record tells us so).

Underrated: The Mo Williams Trade. Sports writer J.A. Adande'. The Chauncey Billups trade to Denver. The San Antonio Spurs because everyone is talking about the Lakers but the Spurs are the only team in the west that Eastern conference teams should fear.

BroSweets
11-29-2008, 01:36 PM
Overrated: I'll go with Iverson, I just don't like his attitude.

Underrated: Homer pick, but JaVale McGee. He was supposed to be a project after coming out of a small school, but has really come in and played well. He's really shown athletic ability on his dunks, and his defense looks pretty decent as well. The Wizards severely lack a big man, and I think they finally found one in McGee.

DerekRE_3
11-29-2008, 01:45 PM
I think Melo has really gone under recognized for the strides he's made this season due to the decrease in his scoring. But all the things everybody has always knocked him for his whole career, he's improved in just about every possible way but scoring... defensively, rebounding, assists, a more selfless, team-oriented mentality, leadership, and above all better defense (oh, did I already mention that? :rolleyes: )

The only off part of Melo's game so far this year is that 40% FG percentage. He should be shooting a much higher percentage than that.

JayW_1023
11-29-2008, 01:49 PM
I think it's because when Melo goes one on one the defense can now focus their help defense more on him. Luckily his assist rate shows he makes better decisions when his shots aren't falling than last year. Overall his game is much more wellrounded than last year.

If Melo decides to play more off the ball and not carry so much ball handling responsibility I think his percentages will go up again.

DerekRE_3
11-29-2008, 02:25 PM
I think it's because when Melo goes one on one the defense can now focus their help defense more on him. Luckily his assist rate shows he makes better decisions when his shots aren't falling than last year. Overall his game is much more wellrounded than last year.

If Melo decides to play more off the ball and not carry so much ball handling responsibility I think his percentages will go up again.

Agreed, he won't continue to shoot that low of a percentage for the rest of the year. I was just shocked it was so low when I checked his stats. He is having a good year nonetheless and is much more well rounded.

But at the same time...John Salmons goes one on one a ton, even more so since Kevin Martin has been out with injury. And his FG percentage is 51% and he is shooting 42% from the 3 point line while averaging 20 ppg. Just saying, he's an iso guy, with pretty much no help from his teammates, and he is still shooting over 50%.

DCB/LAL
11-29-2008, 02:27 PM
im not a hater, i just dont see the big deal of the lakers this year yes they are doing well, really well but they were supposed to do well. IN my opinion they've only had three games were they played a team that actually played well against them most of the other games the other team sucked, or they had a bad night. I like the lakers but i just dont see the why everyone is so exsatic over them this season.

yeah because houston had a bad night so did portland and new orleans and pheonix mmhmm....maybe you should credit the lakers D for them all having bad nights if anything it was LA who had a bad night against Detroit ever thought of the that?? Of course not because your blinded by laker hate disease called lakerhateritous its ok everyone whos not a laker fan seems to get this disease some of the symptoms of this disease are: bashing on kobe bryant, bashing the team, not mentiong them as one of the best teams as some have done and simply making excuses as to why their so good!!!

JayW_1023
11-29-2008, 02:32 PM
But at the same time...John Salmons goes one on one a ton, even more so since Kevin Martin has been out with injury. And his FG percentage is 51% and he is shooting 42% from the 3 point line while averaging 20 ppg. Just saying, he's an iso guy, with pretty much no help from his teammates, and he is still shooting over 50%.

Against which team did Salmons score 38 again...forgot that.

JayW_1023
11-29-2008, 02:35 PM
I think it's the Nets...a team that lost it's best perimeter defender last year....that explains something.

jimbobjarree
11-29-2008, 02:43 PM
Spurs are underated as always

and the blazers are over rated.

I really dont get why is everyone up CP3s butt, I mean he is a fantastic player, but he drops 15 dimes and ESPN is all up in there, Deron has done it twice in a row at like 80%, with the Jazz missing some key players and nothing

DerekRE_3
11-29-2008, 02:44 PM
I think it's the Nets...a team that lost it's best perimeter defender last year....that explains something.

It was the Nets, but he also had to guard Vince all night, be the go to guy on offense, and play 50 minutes. Carter did end up with 25 points, but mostly because he caught fire in the 4th quarter.

DerekRE_3
11-29-2008, 02:45 PM
Spurs are underated as always

and the blazers are over rated.

I really dont get why is everyone up CP3s butt, I mean he is a fantastic player, but he drops 15 dimes and ESPN is all up in there, Deron has done it twice in a row at like 80%, with the Jazz missing some key players and nothing

CP3 >>>> Deron ;)

jimbobjarree
11-29-2008, 02:45 PM
It was the Nets, but he also had to guard Vince all night, be the go to guy on offense, and play 50 minutes. Carter did end up with 25 points, but mostly because he caught fire in the 4th quarter.

I love me some John Salmons

jimbobjarree
11-29-2008, 02:46 PM
CP3 >>>> Deron ;)

exactly what ESPN wants you to think

chaugh970
11-29-2008, 03:09 PM
Underrated: Chauncey Billups

He has really turned the Nuggets around and allow his teammates to produce. He gives Denver a defensive presence on the perimeter and his unselfish team first attitude has rubbed off on his teammates. Denver is not only a better defensive team but a much more efficient on offense, less reliant on isolation plays and more on off the ball movement. Billups is the biggest reason for Denvers surge as a contender.

Overrated: Allen Iverson

In Detroit he can't get away of pursuing his personal agenda. He is now on a team with seasoned veterans of which many have earned a ring. No longer can he jack up 25 shots and stop the ball movement with his overdribbling. So far the results have been mixed and it is gonna be tough for Iverson to adjust in a more balanced team oriented game. He will be held accountable if he acts against team interests. It should be a wake up call for him.


Very well said! Couldn't agree more.

lakers4sho
11-29-2008, 03:20 PM
Underrated: Nuggets team

Everyone is saying Nuggets are not good enough or they're just an offensive team with nothing else. I've been watching their games this season (fortunately they have a number of nationally televised games), and boy did that trade for Billups help them alot. Of course they're still not at the top of their game at this point, but they show a lot of promise. And Nene looks more and more like a presence inside. If he keeps it up, it'll be even better. Still, Melo has still a lot to improve on his game if he wants the Nuggets to be a serious contender.

Overrated: Andris Biedrins

seriously, he's getting a lot of hype lately. If you're playing with people half your size, you're BOUND to get all the rebounds and you're SUPPOSED to be the go-to person in the post. No one was talking about him last season, now y'all want to put him as the West's starting center?? Preposterous!

JordansBulls
11-29-2008, 03:53 PM
These threads only lead to fighting. Which in turn lead to infractions and bans. But for the time being I will leave it open.

DenButsu
11-30-2008, 05:18 AM
Agreed, he won't continue to shoot that low of a percentage for the rest of the year. I was just shocked it was so low when I checked his stats. He is having a good year nonetheless and is much more well rounded.

But at the same time...John Salmons goes one on one a ton, even more so since Kevin Martin has been out with injury. And his FG percentage is 51% and he is shooting 42% from the 3 point line while averaging 20 ppg. Just saying, he's an iso guy, with pretty much no help from his teammates, and he is still shooting over 50%.

Well that's very much to Salmons' credit that he's shooting so hot, but to compare him to Melo on that basis is a little unrealistic, since Salmons does not get even close to the defensive attention that Melo does. It's hardly an exaggeration to say that Melo is doubled every single time he gets the ball, and that the main defender assigned to him is always the other team's best defender. So he's operating under some dramatically different conditions than Salmons is, which is not to take anything away from him, but I think it's just a fact that if Salmons shoots 50% in a game or if Melo shoots 50% in a game it doesn't exactly mean the same thing when you consider what each guy is up against. But it's fair for you to be shocked that Melo's shooting has been so cold so far this season, because it really has been. The good news is that that is the aspect of the game which comes most naturally to him, so there's no doubt he'll recover his shot. But the progress he's made in other areas in the meantime, defensively, in rebounding and passing, that's all stuff that he's had to make a very conscious effort to improve, and it's long overdue, but now that he's finally doing it, once his shooting recovers he's going to be a much more dangerous player than he ever has been in his career even if (or perhaps because) his ppg average is lower.

--------------------------------

And thanks, JB :cheers:

DerekRE_3
11-30-2008, 05:36 AM
Well that's very much to Salmons' credit that he's shooting so hot, but to compare him to Melo on that basis is a little unrealistic, since Salmons does not get even close to the defensive attention that Melo does. It's hardly an exaggeration to say that Melo is doubled every single time he gets the ball, and that the main defender assigned to him is always the other team's best defender. So he's operating under some dramatically different conditions than Salmons is, which is not to take anything away from him, but I think it's just a fact that if Salmons shoots 50% in a game or if Melo shoots 50% in a game it doesn't exactly mean the same thing when you consider what each guy is up against. But it's fair for you to be shocked that Melo's shooting has been so cold so far this season, because it really has been. The good news is that that is the aspect of the game which comes most naturally to him, so there's no doubt he'll recover his shot. But the progress he's made in other areas in the meantime, defensively, in rebounding and passing, that's all stuff that he's had to make a very conscious effort to improve, and it's long overdue, but now that he's finally doing it, once his shooting recovers he's going to be a much more dangerous player than he ever has been in his career even if (or perhaps because) his ppg average is lower.

--------------------------------

And thanks, JB :cheers:

Oh I wasn't comparing the two. I was just saying that I think John Salmons is one of the more underrated players this season. I think Melo has become a more well rounded player, and is having a good year, I was just surprised to see his FG% so low, thats all. I'm sure it will improve. Obviously Melo is the better player, I'm in no way disputing that. I just felt like mentioning Salmons because the only mention he gets is how he is a fantasy sleeper.

DenButsu
11-30-2008, 05:46 AM
Oh I wasn't comparing the two. I was just saying that I think John Salmons is one of the more underrated players this season. I think Melo has become a more well rounded player, and is having a good year, I was just surprised to see his FG% so low, thats all. I'm sure it will improve. Obviously Melo is the better player, I'm in no way disputing that. I just felt like mentioning Salmons because the only mention he gets is how he is a fantasy sleeper.

Cool. :cool:

I haven't seen much of the Kings this season yet, but we have a four game season series starting in Denver on 12/6. Since perimeter D is our biggest weakness, Salmons will have a chance to inflict some pain. Fortunately, we have a few weapons, too.

michaellui11
11-30-2008, 06:22 AM
overrated-iggy and kobe (why is kobe in the mvp race)
underrated-granger and harris

nbafan244
11-30-2008, 06:36 AM
under - brandon roy

over - greg oden ( i love him but people put tooo much hype into him )

and some person said the blazers were overated? look at there record...tied for second best in west...but i do think they are under rated

DenButsu
11-30-2008, 12:25 PM
Derek... here's something I just made (http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7505/melofgpct1st15in0809yp3.png) regarding Melo's fg%.

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
11-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Overrated: Mo Williams....I just dont see him as a consistant force for Cleveland throughout the year and in the playoffs. Nothing against Cleveland or anything mostly against Mo LOL :D

Underrated: Wilson Chandler!!!! :)!

I am not exactly sure why you say Mo is overrated. Cleveland is currently 14-3 and he is really the only addition from last season to this season.

I would say if any his affect on this team is underrated because its not just his scoring that helps. Its his ability to take people of the dribble and be a play maker more then anything. That's what Cleveland needed all this time with LeBron. Someone who can hit a jump shot consistently when called too.

DerekRE_3
11-30-2008, 03:27 PM
Cool. :cool:

I haven't seen much of the Kings this season yet, but we have a four game season series starting in Denver on 12/6. Since perimeter D is our biggest weakness, Salmons will have a chance to inflict some pain. Fortunately, we have a few weapons, too.

Well, Salmons just got hurt, I don't think it's serious though. Kevin Martin should be back, so I'd be worried more about him than Salmons.

DerekRE_3
11-30-2008, 03:30 PM
Derek... here's something I just made (http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7505/melofgpct1st15in0809yp3.png) regarding Melo's fg%.

Looks like Melo is already turning it around. It's really good to see his rebounding numbers as high as they are and he's getting a decent amount of assists as well. 8.7 rebounds a game is excellent for a SF.

KobeBeatJeeesus
11-30-2008, 03:51 PM
When you have to say that Kobe is overrated AS ALWAYS, it proves that you just dont like the guy, so I naturally ignore your opinion about the best player on earth.

Overrated- Iverson, the Pistons are dumb for doing that when they have Stuckey playing so well. The Houston Rockets are overrated on a whole, and I cant understand why the "Thunder" banked on Kevin Durant.

Underrated- Trevor Ariza ftw. Tayshaun Prince never gets enough love, and wheres the love for Richard Jefferson? Gerald Wallace and Hakim Warrick never get love either :(

cmstophe
11-30-2008, 05:07 PM
I am not exactly sure why you say Mo is overrated. Cleveland is currently 14-3 and he is really the only addition from last season to this season.

I would say if any his affect on this team is underrated because its not just his scoring that helps. Its his ability to take people of the dribble and be a play maker more then anything. That's what Cleveland needed all this time with LeBron. Someone who can hit a jump shot consistently when called too.

I think he's just messin'. Because anyone who watches the Cavs knows Mo Williams is a huge difference maker for the Cavs. And how a guy who is barely talked about can be "overrated" is beyond me.

I think Williams this year is underrated honestly. Guy has actually won like 2-3 games with clutch 4th quarter 3s.

Soto>Norris
11-30-2008, 05:38 PM
Overrated: LeBron (sure he is great but that make him out to be better than MJ. I'm so sick and tired of every time a trade is made espn talking about the team preparing for LeBron in 2010. STFU already that two years away.

Underrated: Danny Granger and Joe Johnson are two super stars.

IMO Lebron is capable of being one of the 3 best players of all time by the time he retires, and we need to take into account that the NBA is getting better and better every decade. Id say that LeBron faces tougher competition.

Soto>Norris
11-30-2008, 05:39 PM
ive never seen anyone be able to take a score at will like Lebron. He can drop 40 if he feels like it.

lakers4sho
11-30-2008, 07:12 PM
ive never seen anyone be able to take a score at will like Lebron. He can drop 40 if he feels like it.

He can't score 81 ;)

Any legit superstar in the league can score 40 if he feels like doing it.

DenButsu
11-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Well, Salmons just got hurt, I don't think it's serious though. Kevin Martin should be back, so I'd be worried more about him than Salmons.

I am. Sucks about Salmons, though. Injuries suck - even when they happen to opposing teams.

Zefflin
11-30-2008, 10:27 PM
IMO Lebron is capable of being one of the 3 best players of all time by the time he retires, and we need to take into account that the NBA is getting better and better every decade. Id say that LeBron faces tougher competition.

All true, but ultimately it will depend on if he gets rings or not with his deceptively selfish style of play. Oh I see it Lebron :no: :nod: That why I don't like you. But I've finally learned to respect you either way.

They're looking good so far this year, let's see if they can keep it up. Hopefully they don't choke :rolleyes:

Mr.Grizzly
11-30-2008, 10:44 PM
LeBron has been over rated since birth!

Mr.Grizzly
11-30-2008, 10:45 PM
Under rated: David West

Fans in Asia
11-30-2008, 11:49 PM
Overrated: Chris Paul, Daniel Gibson

Underrated: Andrei Kirilenko, Mehmet Okur

Another Jazz Fans in Asia
http://jazzfansinasia.blogspot.com

Raidaz4Life
11-30-2008, 11:51 PM
underrated Devin Harris

DerekRE_3
12-01-2008, 12:38 AM
I am. Sucks about Salmons, though. Injuries suck - even when they happen to opposing teams.

Yeah well it's not like it ruined our playoff chances. :D

And nice work on the graph BTW.

DenButsu
12-01-2008, 12:42 AM
:laugh2: Thanks - I get geeky like that, sometimes.

----

edit- Here's one I did last season (http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1130/camby0708ud9.png) showing Camby's trajectory of rebounding.

JayW_1023
12-01-2008, 06:59 AM
Billups was incredible last night...he looked like he turned back the clock two years. He was the same scary player that torched the Lakers and Spurs in the NBA finals. Now if we look at how Detroit has played in his absence, it's pretty obvious how underrated he still is.

DenButsu
12-01-2008, 09:24 AM
Jay dub, you okay? If you keep giving the Nuggets as many props as you have been recently, I'm going to have to refer you to a doctor or something...

JayW_1023
12-01-2008, 12:52 PM
What can I say...I give credit where it's due lol...I'm no hater.

DenButsu
12-01-2008, 08:15 PM
What can I say...I give credit where it's due lol...I'm no hater.

:cheers:

CHRISDODGERS
12-01-2008, 08:38 PM
Overrated: Chris Paul, Daniel Gibson Are you Okay???

Underrated: Andrei Kirilenko, Mehmet Okur Of course... Jazz fan... :pity:

Another Jazz Fans in Asia
http://jazzfansinasia.blogspot.com


How is Chris paul overrated???

agnine
12-02-2008, 05:04 PM
overrated-LeBron James. Only in terms of him POSSIBLY going to NY in 2010
Underrated-Vince Carter. Steadily been one of the best, but everybody wants him to be Kobe or MJ. He's not, he's Vince, which seems to be really damn good.

snoop2327
12-02-2008, 05:28 PM
over - baron davis dont get me wrong great pg but has never been a winner and thats all that matters in this game

under - Rudy Gay i think that very soon he will develop into an all star remember he is only 22 maybe 23

rhino17
12-02-2008, 05:29 PM
overrated-LeBron James. Only in terms of him POSSIBLY going to NY in 2010

that statement makes no sense

Hawkeye15
12-02-2008, 08:31 PM
Over-Calderon (look, I like the guy, but he is a bad defender, and his team is .500, despite having talent)

Under- Joe Johnson (how is this guy not getting talk for top players in the NBA?)

Draco
12-02-2008, 08:47 PM
Over-Calderon (look, I like the guy, but he is a bad defender, and his team is .500, despite having talent)

Under- Joe Johnson (how is this guy not getting talk for top players in the NBA?)

Hard to disagree since 104 people on PSD think he's the Best PG in the East.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289389

Nadhi1
12-02-2008, 08:50 PM
Andrew bynum of course

Hawkeye15
12-02-2008, 08:53 PM
Hard to disagree since 104 people on PSD think he's the Best PG in the East.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289389

Oh I know. It's just my gut feeling. I think he is overrated. Does he take care of the ball?? Yes. Is he a good distributor? Yes. But he is an average scorer at best, doesn't rebound or defend, and for his free throw ability, doesn't get to the line enough. I think he is a very good player, but he is not an all star, or a all NBA player like many PSD posters believe. I think he is a good starting point guard, and that is about it.

DasBoot
12-02-2008, 08:56 PM
Overrated- Gilbert Arenas- Need I say?

Underrated- Kendrick Perkins- Nobody realizes what a force he is on the defensive end.

typical boston fan answer...

IBleedPurple
12-02-2008, 09:20 PM
Overrated:KG, he is starting to slide
Underrated:Melo, playing his most unselfish and defensive basketball ever

Hawkeye15
12-02-2008, 09:31 PM
Overrated:KG, he is starting to slide
Underrated:Melo, playing his most unselfish and defensive basketball ever

while KG has started to slide a tad, anyone with 20,000 points, and 10,000 rebounds, is not overrated.
As far as Melo, thank you Mr Billups. And has he ever really been underrated?? Not at all

nygiants242
12-02-2008, 11:13 PM
while KG has started to slide a tad, anyone with 20,000 points, and 10,000 rebounds, is not overrated.
As far as Melo, thank you Mr Billups. And has he ever really been underrated?? Not at all

We are talking this SEASON buddy

Hawkeye15
12-02-2008, 11:20 PM
We are talking this SEASON buddy

fine. So if you had a game where winning was all that mattered, you would take who ahead of Kevin Garnett, besides the local residents of LeBron, Kobe, Wade, or Paul? He plays like 32 mpg, and still gets 16-9. And he is still a top defender in the NBA. Is he sliding personally? Maybe. But he doesn't need to get 22-12-5 anymore.

SJSHARKIES
12-02-2008, 11:43 PM
Overrated-Jason Kid and probably Tracy Mcgrady
Underrated-Devin Harris, Danny Granger Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson

If I were to choose one from each prob Tmac and JJ.

harm0n1x
12-03-2008, 12:14 AM
Overrated: Mo Williams....I just dont see him as a consistant force for Cleveland throughout the year and in the playoffs. Nothing against Cleveland or anything mostly against Mo LOL :D

Underrated: Wilson Chandler!!!! :)!

Mo, overrated? He has been huge when the Cavs have to give Lebron rest in the 2nd and 4th quarters. Being that playmaker they've needed when Lebron needs to sit, and allowing the Cavs to still make runs while Lebron is on the bench.

OVER:
Allen Iverson, ballhog anyone? And if you disagree, check the rest of the Pistons numbers compared to when they had Billups. That's all you have to do.

The Knicks trades for cap space in '10. Even with all that cap space, that team is embarassing and completely unnattractive. They'll have what, 4-5 players left under contract in '10? So they sign two superstars and have a 6 or 7 man roster? Last I checked, you need 12. Good luck..

UNDER:
Delonte West, the Cavs X-factor. Whoever had the grand idea of converting him to a point was somewhat dumb. Not that he didn't perform, but he is a natural shooting guard. His numbers are up, 51% shooting, 43% from downtown, this guy is great playing off of the ball. For being an undersized SG, his defense is absolutely great, did you see what he did to Vince Carter and Joe Johnson? Not to mention he is f**king hilarious, check some of it out on youtube.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas, possibly the most underrated center in a long time. No center I know of has the jump shot that he does, not to mention the dude can splash 3 pointers too. Plus, he has scored in double digits in every game this season. Yes, he's old and is kind of slow, but is a force to be reckoned with under the hoop, blocks, rebounds, tip ins, tip outs, etc. This guy, more than anyone on the Cavs roster deserves a championship, period. Big Z, a Cavalier for life.

Can you tell I'm a Cavs fan yet? :rimshot:

Kings Faithful
12-03-2008, 01:25 AM
bynum is overrated

Vinny642
12-03-2008, 01:34 AM
^^ Yea

cmstophe
12-03-2008, 11:40 AM
Mo, overrated? He has been huge when the Cavs have to give Lebron rest in the 2nd and 4th quarters. Being that playmaker they've needed when Lebron needs to sit, and allowing the Cavs to still make runs while Lebron is on the bench.

OVER:
Allen Iverson, ballhog anyone? And if you disagree, check the rest of the Pistons numbers compared to when they had Billups. That's all you have to do.

The Knicks trades for cap space in '10. Even with all that cap space, that team is embarassing and completely unnattractive. They'll have what, 4-5 players left under contract in '10? So they sign two superstars and have a 6 or 7 man roster? Last I checked, you need 12. Good luck..

UNDER:
Delonte West, the Cavs X-factor. Whoever had the grand idea of converting him to a point was somewhat dumb. Not that he didn't perform, but he is a natural shooting guard. His numbers are up, 51% shooting, 43% from downtown, this guy is great playing off of the ball. For being an undersized SG, his defense is absolutely great, did you see what he did to Vince Carter and Joe Johnson? Not to mention he is f**king hilarious, check some of it out on youtube.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas, possibly the most underrated center in a long time. No center I know of has the jump shot that he does, not to mention the dude can splash 3 pointers too. Plus, he has scored in double digits in every game this season. Yes, he's old and is kind of slow, but is a force to be reckoned with under the hoop, blocks, rebounds, tip ins, tip outs, etc. This guy, more than anyone on the Cavs roster deserves a championship, period. Big Z, a Cavalier for life.

Can you tell I'm a Cavs fan yet? :rimshot:

You're clearly a Cavs fan but it doesn't change the fact that you're right. Everyone says Ilgauskas is washed up while he puts up some of the best numbers he ever has.

ChokeTheGoat
12-03-2008, 12:00 PM
Overrated - AI, Jason Kid
Underrated - Marvin Williams