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View Full Version : Do you believe the Nuggets are a top 5-6 defensive team this season?



DenButsu
11-26-2008, 12:38 AM
I think most people would agree that Denver is off to a surprisingly impressive start this season with their defense. Right now they're 4th in opponent fg% (42.89) (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=tmcompare&sort=fg%&league=nba&season=2009&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=false&split=999), and 6th in defensive efficiency (98.8) (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonT ype%3d2%26league%3dnba), which doesn't quite put them in the ranks of the league's elite defenses, but it's pretty damn close, and especially noteworthy considering how far they've come since last season.

Of course, picking up Billups helped a lot in this regard, but it started with a new approach in training camp, and was then strengthened by his arrival.

But all that said, it's still pretty early in the season, and it's hard to know if this is for real or if they're just overachieving but will slip back into their bad old no-defense habits in good time. So what do you think?

Do you believe the Nuggets are a great defensive team this season?

Iodine
11-26-2008, 12:41 AM
Middle of the road by the end of the season

hdxstunts1
11-26-2008, 12:42 AM
Its good but it will drop and be middle of the road like he said ^.

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 12:44 AM
Why do you guys think it will drop off? What will change?

hdxstunts1
11-26-2008, 12:48 AM
Why do you guys think it will drop off? What will change?

Hell its only like 15 games into the season.
1st - they will get fatigued!
2nd - they havent been this good before and they lost their best defender(camby) but they did gain billups but i dont see much of a change it shouldnt be a big upside on defense!
3rd - If you watch their games closely you can see rivalries on their own team form which will play into the games and how they trust eachother.

Franquely i only see them as a 6 seed tops my gut feeling is they dont make it and are the 9th seed!

Iodine
11-26-2008, 01:05 AM
Why do you guys think it will drop off? What will change?

The energy they have from the trade will fade
Plus george karl will find a way

Sport
11-26-2008, 01:17 AM
The energy they have from the trade will fade
Plus george karl will find a way

Terrible coach. With him, the Nuggets will find very limited success.

Although, I do feel like the Billups trade helps them.

KG#1
11-26-2008, 01:20 AM
theyre better but that doesnt mean much

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 01:24 AM
Low confidence in Karl is a legit point. But the new energy of this team was in effect before the Billups trade, so I'm not convinced they can't maintain it. The real test will be, I think, if at some point this season they lose a stretch of games, how they weather that and how well they rebound from it.


Hell its only like 15 games into the season.
1st - they will get fatigued!
Not to a greater or lesser degree than any other team in the league, though.

3rd - If you watch their games closely you can see rivalries on their own team form which will play into the games and how they trust eachother.
I watch their games closely. Rivalries? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 01:25 AM
theyre better but that doesnt mean much

What does that mean?

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-26-2008, 01:39 AM
I think their D has improved greatly. It looked really good the first time the Lakers saw them. And that was with a very small back court of A.I. and Carter. Now they have one of the bigger back courts in the league. And even though Nene wont put up the stats that Camby did, he is a better man on man post defender.

superkegger
11-26-2008, 01:52 AM
I think they're a better defensive team, and they'll continue to be a good defensive team. Great, I'm not sure I put them at great just yet. Sometimes even the best defensive teams on any given year aren't good enough to be considered great. So I think they'll continue to be good.

Catfish1314
11-26-2008, 02:00 AM
The Celtics are a great defensive team. The Pistons were a great defensive team. The Spurs were a great defensive team. I've seen the Nuggets improve but I wouldn't call them a great defensive team.

I saw something similar happen when Artest was traded to the Kings in 2006. For the rest of the year and into the playoffs, their defense was much, much better.. The following year came along and under a new coach and a new system, it was as if it didn't mean anything anymore. He brought a new mentality much like Billups has brought.

But if this priority to excel defensively started in training camp, then I don't see it dropping off. Nene is a better post defender than Camby anyway (assuming he still plays the way he did against Tim Duncan in the 2007 playoffs).

hdxstunts1
11-26-2008, 02:04 AM
Low confidence in Karl is a legit point. But the new energy of this team was in effect before the Billups trade, so I'm not convinced they can't maintain it. The real test will be, I think, if at some point this season they lose a stretch of games, how they weather that and how well they rebound from it.


Not to a greater or lesser degree than any other team in the league, though.

I watch their games closely. Rivalries? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

They are forming cliques as if it was High School. Some players only want to pass to who they like and some only want to drive and not give up the ball. Its going to become a bigger problem down the line. Same thing happened to the Lakers earlier this season and late last season.

COLH
11-26-2008, 02:10 AM
definitley better than last year, but not great.

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 02:11 AM
They are forming cliques as if it was High School. Some players only want to pass to who they like and some only want to drive and not give up the ball. Its going to become a bigger problem down the line. Same thing happened to the Lakers earlier this season and late last season.

Dude, what team are you watching?

It's not the Nuggets... their chemistry, passing and ball sharing is better than it has been in years, and their attitudes (each individual player's as well as the team's as a collective) and orientation towards team play are also spot on this season.

It sounds to me as if you're rehashing a criticism of a previous Nuggets season's lack of teamwork, which wouldn't necessarily be off if applied to the past. But applied to the present, it's way, way off.

I'm guessing you've watched exactly one Nuggets game this season, and that was their drubbing by the Lakers last week - but that was their only loss in the last 8 games, just f.y.i.

superkegger
11-26-2008, 02:20 AM
Dude, what team are you watching?

It's not the Nuggets... their chemistry, passing and ball sharing is better than it has been in years, and their attitudes (each individual player's as well as the team's as a collective) and orientation towards team play are also spot on this season.

It sounds to me as if you're rehashing a criticism of a previous Nuggets season's lack of teamwork, which wouldn't necessarily be off if applied to the past. But applied to the present, it's way, way off.

I'm guessing you've watched exactly one Nuggets game this season, and that was their drubbing by the Lakers last week - but that was their only loss in the last 8 games, just f.y.i.

Yeah, pretty much what I would say, but you said it better. Well put, and spot on.

hdxstunts1
11-26-2008, 02:20 AM
I'm guessing you've watched exactly one Nuggets game this season, and that was their drubbing by the Lakers last week - but that was their only loss in the last 8 games, just f.y.i.

Actually i've watched quite a few of their games im not a hater of them but i wouldnt say im an avid fan. I have respect for them is what im saying i guess. Its just from what i see they are hot and cold with their team work i've seen games where at the end i said wow they should've been the champs the past 3 seasons in a row including this year and then i've seen games where i've said that a high school team would beat them. They are good but to some extent they have bad nights(yes everyone does have bad nighs but i've seen many from them this season.)

Chronz
11-26-2008, 02:22 AM
I wouldnt call them great until they improve their rebounding but that doesnt look possible given the talent on the roster. Nene is a much better defender than Camby and the raw numbers on Kenyon and Balkman are impressive, but Camby still had uses defensively and if paired with Nene or K-Mart as much as they shouldve been wouldve made them a truly great defensive team, at the least you know Camby is a great defensive option to have off the bench.

But theyre really struggling offensively and this is with Billups lighting it up.

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 02:23 AM
The Celtics are a great defensive team. The Pistons were a great defensive team. The Spurs were a great defensive team. I've seen the Nuggets improve but I wouldn't call them a great defensive team.

Well, what you're calling great, I called "elite" in my top post, so my use of "great" meant to locate them between "elite" and "good" - or in other words, I do agree with that point, I was just aiming my terminology differently.


FWIW, I think the doubt being expressed here is well founded. Again and again before we've seen the Nuggets talk big only to fall short of their claimed ambitions. So my optimism is definitely cautious. But at least this season it exists for a real reason, which is that there is in fact demonstrable progress to base it on.

It'll be interesting to see if we make any moves by the deadline. That could make an impact. Balkman, for example, who's one of our lower profile players (save for the hair) has actually made a solid contribution to our reserve's defense already.

marvILLous
11-26-2008, 02:26 AM
I believe in the nuggets. i think they'll make some noise come playoff time. billups is amazing on this squad

G-Funk
11-26-2008, 02:26 AM
It's good not great.

G-Funk
11-26-2008, 02:27 AM
but it is way better I don't think they will get swept this time around

superkegger
11-26-2008, 02:32 AM
Well, what you're calling great, I called "elite" in my top post, so my use of "great" meant to locate them between "elite" and "good" - or in other words, I do agree with that point, I was just aiming my terminology differently.


FWIW, I think the doubt being expressed here is well founded. Again and again before we've seen the Nuggets talk big only to fall short of their claimed ambitions. So my optimism is definitely cautious. But at least this season it exists for a real reason, which is that there is in fact demonstrable progress to base it on.

It'll be interesting to see if we make any moves by the deadline. That could make an impact. Balkman, for example, who's one of our lower profile players (save for the hair) has actually made a solid contribution to our reserve's defense already.

Even if the nuggets hold up these numbers, which I think they can, I'm not ready to call them an elite defensive team just yet. I guess to me if you're an elite defensive team, it doesn't happen for just one year, if there's no significant personnel changes. So I think for me, its more than just a one season judgement. We can call the Celtics an elite defensive team because we've seen them win a ring with it, and we've seen that defense still be there this year. We can call the Spurs an elite defensive team because we've seen year in and year out, that the defense is always there.

Like you said, we've heard this from a lot of teams before. "We're really going to focus on defense." And a lot of teams don't follow through with it for 82 games. And then they preach the same thing the next year, and it still doesn't work. So to be elite, I think it requires consistency.

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 04:18 AM
Even if the nuggets hold up these numbers, which I think they can, I'm not ready to call them an elite defensive team just yet. I guess to me if you're an elite defensive team, it doesn't happen for just one year, if there's no significant personnel changes. So I think for me, its more than just a one season judgement. We can call the Celtics an elite defensive team because we've seen them win a ring with it, and we've seen that defense still be there this year. We can call the Spurs an elite defensive team because we've seen year in and year out, that the defense is always there.

Like you said, we've heard this from a lot of teams before. "We're really going to focus on defense." And a lot of teams don't follow through with it for 82 games. And then they preach the same thing the next year, and it still doesn't work. So to be elite, I think it requires consistency.

I totally agree with all of this, and just so it's clear:

I'm NOT trying to say the Nugs are elite, I'm trying to say they're at about #5-6 in the league right now, and ask if they can hold steady in that area. Maybe I should clarify the thread title... the word "great" was a bad choice on my part, it seems, because it looks like it's taking away from the main point/question at hand.

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Thread title/poll question edited from "great" to "top 5-6"... apologies to those of you who already voted, although since there are currently zero votes for the top choice, I doubt any of you have a problem with the change. :laugh2:

LakerzDQ
11-26-2008, 07:27 AM
Nuggets became a better defensive team, through their changes. people think losing Camby made them worse, but they got some good defenders now.

they have 4 good defenders on their starting lineup.

look at the way they improved in all 5 positions:

PG-Anthony Carter -> Chauncey Billups. Both old, but Billups is still the better defender.
SG-Allen Iverson -> Dahntay Jones. Jones is a very strong, big, physical defender. AI sucked except for steals
SF-Carmelo Anthony -> Carmelo Anthony. He became a bit better this season.
PF-Kenyon Martin -> Kenyon Martin. K-Mart is more active now, having fully recovered from his injury.
C-Marcus Camby -> Nene. Camby was a way better shotblocker, but Nene is big, and can play better man defense.


nuggets playing better team defense, and they are still offensively talented, with Melo, Billups, JR Smith, K-Mart, Nene, and Kleiza.

JordansBulls
11-26-2008, 10:45 AM
The Nuggets haven't really been a bad defensive team according to their rating, it is just they didn't play it consistently. The good thing is that Kmart and Nene are more consistent so that helps out the backcourt as well.

mrblisterdundee
11-26-2008, 12:46 PM
It's not the team. It's Chauncey.

superkegger
11-26-2008, 12:49 PM
I totally agree with all of this, and just so it's clear:

I'm NOT trying to say the Nugs are elite, I'm trying to say they're at about #5-6 in the league right now, and ask if they can hold steady in that area. Maybe I should clarify the thread title... the word "great" was a bad choice on my part, it seems, because it looks like it's taking away from the main point/question at hand.

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Thread title/poll question edited from "great" to "top 5-6"... apologies to those of you who already voted, although since there are currently zero votes for the top choice, I doubt any of you have a problem with the change. :laugh2:


Yeah, I wasn't trying to nit pick, but I guess it came off that way. lol.

But then yes I think I completely agree with your assessment of the Nuggets. They will continue to be a good defensive team.

DenButsu
11-26-2008, 08:52 PM
It's not the team. It's Chauncey.

They were actually playing much better defense than last season straight out of training camp before the trade. But it's true that replacing AI with Billups in the lineup gives them all that much more defensive skill, focus and intensity (not to mention size). So I'd say that he reinforced, strengthened and sped up a process of improving the defense that had started before he got there.

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And yeah, sk, it seems to me we're pretty much on the same page, huh? :laugh2:

SensandRaps
11-26-2008, 10:27 PM
they will end the year as a top 10 defensive team

avsman05
11-26-2008, 10:51 PM
This team will have a good year at Defense they have to their scoring is down 15 ppg since last year. if they allow 105 ppg like last year they will lose 90% of their games. Can they hold up for a whole year. Well something everyone has failed to mention so far is that the Nuggets practice at a high elevation so techncially they should have more stamina than most teams. Does it work like that, not all the time but this team will be ok.