PDA

View Full Version : The Tom Brady 'elephant in the room' question



NCBoSoxfan21
11-25-2008, 12:47 PM
What's better for the Patriots....


Assuming Cassel leads the Pats to AT LEAST the AFC Championship, what is better for the Pats organization as a whole.

Cassel who is shaping up to be the-next Tom Brady has put up similar numbers to Brady's first year (if not better in some very important categories) and has shown the leadership and cooperation that Brady is also-known for.

Brady, who was undeniable (in my mind and should be in any football fan's mind) the best QB in the league before his injury is aging (he's only 30, I know, but Cassel's younger is my point here) and may not recover from his injury to full former glory, especially with this infection garbage that could have weakened the tissue in his knee. It's been seen before, a QB gets hit with some horrible injury (Palmer and Culpepper are prime examples) and cannot manage to return to form. As much as Brady has done for the Pats, isn't it smarter to keep Cassel and sign him to a deal, while trading Brady for draft picks.

Now before anyone gets bent out of shape, think about it.

It's happened before (Bledsoe-Brady). Drew was doing fabulous as the Pats leading QB putting up back to back to back 3000+ yard seasons and was just as beloved as Brady was in Boston. However injuries are major concerns for the Patriots and with such a talented and athletic QB waiting in the wings (Cassel) and the opportunity to trade Brady to a team like SF or Detroit who will have high first round picks to give, wouldn't it be smarter for the future of the franchise to trade him?

I think so.

Thoughts?

bagwell368
11-25-2008, 01:25 PM
Sure it has happened before. But as Brady is one of the 5 best QB's since the merger, what you are hoping has only happened once - Montana & Young. Don't bet money.

Now, if some team has a huge salary coming off the books, and can fit Brady, and believes they can win, and we can get 2 1's, 2 2's and 2 3's from said team, it could be worth it.

OTOH, if can franchise cassel and wink our way around the rules, we might snag a pretty big haul also.

Not at all clear, glad we have BB and Pioli on the problem.

BTW, if we get into AFC Championship I'd be pretty damn surprised.

kbjohnson26
11-25-2008, 01:59 PM
Absolutely ridiculous. First of all you have to look at the teams in Comparison. This team is still loaded with talent. Bledsoe was loved by the Fans, but that is still slim compared to the love that Tommy Gets. Regardless of how Matty has performed the last FEW weeks, you can't even come close to comparing that to Brady. Brady is and will always be the face of the franchise. If anything, I can see the Pats Franchising Matt and trying to trade him or just doing a sign and trade with Somebody.

dbroncos78087
11-25-2008, 02:26 PM
I think before you proclaim him "The Next Tom Brady" you might want to see what he does in the playoffs and really in the weeks leading up to it. I realize you stated that in your original post but those things arent given and it seems like you are chalking them up to be.

That being said, Brady is the guy, he wont 3 Superbowls and took you guys to another as the best offense in football. Cassell is doing very good in a very, very good offense. We could go in and probably average a 1:1 TD:INT ratio (obviously hyperbole but you get my message i hope).

TickTickBoom
11-25-2008, 02:33 PM
Let's see what Cassel can do against a good team before we start talking about trading Brady away because so far Matt Cassel hasn't even beat one good team yet. Don't get me wrong the way Matt Cassel has progressed is impressive but, if the playoffs started today we would be on the outside looking in. Let's see what he can do vs. Pittsburgh this weekend.

NYMETS6986
11-25-2008, 03:40 PM
Let's see what Cassel can do against a good team before we start talking about trading Brady away because so far Matt Cassel hasn't even beat one good team yet. Don't get me wrong the way Matt Cassel has progressed is impressive but, if the playoffs started today we would be on the outside looking in. Let's see what he can do vs. Pittsburgh this weekend.

im takin the chance and starting cassel over big ben on my fantasy team this week in hopes he has a little more magic left to get me into the playoffs. hes been crazy good the last 2 weeks i hope he can do what he did that last 2 weeks to pittsburgh too!

ERLynx
11-25-2008, 03:40 PM
i'd take the real tom brady over the next tom brady.

ERLynx
11-25-2008, 03:41 PM
or any other version of a bootleg tom brady.

kazzy4080
11-25-2008, 03:51 PM
or any other version of a bootleg tom brady.

but the problem is will post injury tom brady be tom brady or just a bootleg version?

JerseyBrave
11-25-2008, 04:08 PM
Let's see what Cassel can do against a good team before we start talking about trading Brady away because so far Matt Cassel hasn't even beat one good team yet. Don't get me wrong the way Matt Cassel has progressed is impressive but, if the playoffs started today we would be on the outside looking in. Let's see what he can do vs. Pittsburgh this weekend.


I agree he has had great games against suspect defenses, pittsburgh will be the real test to prove if cassel is ligit, brady picked apart this defense last year

NCBoSoxfan21
11-25-2008, 04:49 PM
Well he had a major come back against a Jets team that's LOADED with superstar players, in fact his efforts nearly won the game for them had it not been for the call on Vrabel and on... Hobbs (?), not to mention it went to OT which as the NFL's superbly stupid OT rules go, whoever gets the toss basically wins.

Cassel has had two back to back 400 yard games, that doesn't just 'happen'. He's proving that he's learned a lot from carrying the clipboard for Brady all those years.

I'm just concerned, as was mention, if Brady will come back and be Brady and not a sob story, while Cassel has proven himself ready and floats away leaving us in serious trouble.

Like I said Brady before the KC injury was THE BEST QB in the league, but can he return to that? Maybe. And it's a big fat IF. On the other hand we could trade him like I said to a struggling QB team like the Lions or 49ers for probably a 1st round pick in this years draft and a 1st the following year.

Tom Brady is the man, but again he might come back like Culpepper or Palmer and be junk and then what? O'Connell? Guiterriez?

Let me put it this way:

What is Cassel takes us to the Super Bowl and we win? However unlikely that may sound, what then?

Keep Cassel or keep Brady?

Also keep in mind that if he does do that Cassel has more yards in his first 11 games than Brady, a better passer rating, more completions, and is only one loss behind him (again due to that BS Jets loss, but still a loss is a loss).

kazzy4080
11-25-2008, 05:25 PM
Well he had a major come back against a Jets team that's LOADED with superstar players, in fact his efforts nearly won the game for them had it not been for the call on Vrabel and on... Hobbs (?), not to mention it went to OT which as the NFL's superbly stupid OT rules go, whoever gets the toss basically wins.

Cassel has had two back to back 400 yard games, that doesn't just 'happen'. He's proving that he's learned a lot from carrying the clipboard for Brady all those years.

I'm just concerned, as was mention, if Brady will come back and be Brady and not a sob story, while Cassel has proven himself ready and floats away leaving us in serious trouble.

Like I said Brady before the KC injury was THE BEST QB in the league, but can he return to that? Maybe. And it's a big fat IF. On the other hand we could trade him like I said to a struggling QB team like the Lions or 49ers for probably a 1st round pick in this years draft and a 1st the following year.

Tom Brady is the man, but again he might come back like Culpepper or Palmer and be junk and then what? O'Connell? Guiterriez?

Let me put it this way:

What is Cassel takes us to the Super Bowl and we win? However unlikely that may sound, what then?

Keep Cassel or keep Brady?

Also keep in mind that if he does do that Cassel has more yards in his first 11 games than Brady, a better passer rating, more completions, and is only one loss behind him (again due to that BS Jets loss, but still a loss is a loss).

i think my head would explode from the mixed emotions if that happened. The only thing i could think of is if we run the A-11 offense next season and keep both

kazzy4080
11-25-2008, 05:27 PM
Well he had a major come back against a Jets team that's LOADED with superstar players, in fact his efforts nearly won the game for them had it not been for the call on Vrabel and on... Hobbs (?), not to mention it went to OT which as the NFL's superbly stupid OT rules go, whoever gets the toss basically wins.

Cassel has had two back to back 400 yard games, that doesn't just 'happen'. He's proving that he's learned a lot from carrying the clipboard for Brady all those years.

I'm just concerned, as was mention, if Brady will come back and be Brady and not a sob story, while Cassel has proven himself ready and floats away leaving us in serious trouble.

Like I said Brady before the KC injury was THE BEST QB in the league, but can he return to that? Maybe. And it's a big fat IF. On the other hand we could trade him like I said to a struggling QB team like the Lions or 49ers for probably a 1st round pick in this years draft and a 1st the following year.

Tom Brady is the man, but again he might come back like Culpepper or Palmer and be junk and then what? O'Connell? Guiterriez?

Let me put it this way:

What is Cassel takes us to the Super Bowl and we win? However unlikely that may sound, what then?

Keep Cassel or keep Brady?

Also keep in mind that if he does do that Cassel has more yards in his first 11 games than Brady, a better passer rating, more completions, and is only one loss behind him (again due to that BS Jets loss, but still a loss is a loss).

yeah but brady was also throwing to the likes of David Pattern, Troy Brown, and i cant even think of another receiver on that team. and also that was brady's 2nd season not fourth

NCBoSoxfan21
11-25-2008, 09:27 PM
Troy Brown and Terry Glenn? Seems like a nice combo to me. Not Randy Moss, but Brown and Glenn were in their primes. Not to mention he had a nice combo of Antwain Smith and Kevin Faulk.

DieHardColtsfan
11-25-2008, 09:45 PM
:pity: this is Tom Brady were talking about

kazzy4080
11-25-2008, 10:12 PM
Troy Brown and Terry Glenn? Seems like a nice combo to me. Not Randy Moss, but Brown and Glenn were in their primes. Not to mention he had a nice combo of Antwain Smith and Kevin Faulk.

ahhh terry glenn didnt play for majority of that season (he also didnt play in the playoffs) cause of his attitude (bellichick benched him) and troy brown is a good slot receiver in his prime but no way should he be ur one

smith and faulk? Smith was a good short yardage guy and faulk is a good receiving back not exactly guys u want to have carrying 25-30 times a game. if i remember correctly the pats used short passes that season as their running game and would only run after establishing a solid passing game

brady had no offense weapons around him that year just a bunch of guys who make good back ups

hockeyunhboy77
11-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Is everybody forgetting about the Rbs that brady had to hand of to. only green and fauk are playing. I wouldn't take cassel yet when we have a team that is already developed and a QB that is gonna be ready next year. we can find someone to start the first couple of weeksif he is hurt. I also do not like cassels insurance when he runs he seems very cocky he runs right up in defenders grill he is could get injured doin that.

Jeremy5150
11-26-2008, 02:56 AM
Um no, you don't let of one of the greatest quarterbacks in history for a very untested, yet very talented player. Tom Brady will be in his prime for years, hell Brett Farve is 80, and still priming.

I love Cassel, don't get me wrong...it's so awesome to see a story like his. But, the guy has to win a SB (or 3) before we start seeing elephants.

NavajoRaiderfan
11-26-2008, 10:20 AM
Replace Tom Brady? You gotta be joking.

Reminds of the beginning of the season in Denver when they were putting the name Jay Cutler in the same sentence as John Elway.

I know it's a one year league these days, but damn!

NCBoSoxfan21
11-26-2008, 10:52 AM
Smith had 1200 yards that year with 200 in the playoffs and Faulk had over 1000 all-purpose. I think that its safe to say they had a brutal running game.

I forgot about that Glenn thing, sorry, I'm remembering it now. That was about as funny as parcells calling him 'she'. LOL. Good times.

The Intimidator
11-26-2008, 11:17 AM
No, you don't replace Brady with Cassel. Now, I have been supporting Cassel all along, unlike most of you in here. I even made a "Where are all the Cassel haters" thread a few weeks ago, before his last two games. But we cannot overreact to these last two games. You need to take into account Brady's 7 years of success, rather than the 4 or 5 games where Cassel has been extremely impressive.

kazzy4080
11-26-2008, 03:31 PM
Smith had 1200 yards that year with 200 in the playoffs and Faulk had over 1000 all-purpose. I think that its safe to say they had a brutal running game.

I forgot about that Glenn thing, sorry, I'm remembering it now. That was about as funny as parcells calling him 'she'. LOL. Good times.

only reason he had so many yards was cause he didnt get hurt and had so many attempts cause of it. he averaged yards a carry which is decent not great and again faulk had so many yards cause the pats used short passes and screens a lot that season

matt cassel has a lot more weapons than tom brady did and he also had more years to learn the system than tom brady does. Tom brady is one of the 5 or 10 greatest QBs ever (befre the injury) Matt Cassel is just a really good story at this point

kazzy4080
11-26-2008, 03:31 PM
remember billy volek had back to back 400 yard games and where is he now?

NCBoSoxfan21
11-26-2008, 04:05 PM
Volek isn't half as athletic and experienced in the system as Cassel is.

And no matter how you split it, they both had 1000+ yard seasons, so I don't see the issue. You can't just go "oh well they got the ball that's why that happened" they we're getting the job done. NE hasn't got a 1000 yard rusher on the team right now, in fact they have close to nothing for a running game. So if anything they've got opposites, Cassel has a great passing game behind him and Brady had a great running game behind him.

I agree Tom Brady is one of the best QBs in history (believe me I've got two jerseys personally signed by him, not to mention a helmet, picture, and football, trust me I'm a fan) and easily the best in the league before his injury. BUT he might not come back to where he was and then what? Scratch your head because I don't know either.

kazzy4080
11-26-2008, 04:38 PM
Volek isn't half as athletic and experienced in the system as Cassel is.

And no matter how you split it, they both had 1000+ yard seasons, so I don't see the issue. You can't just go "oh well they got the ball that's why that happened" they we're getting the job done. NE hasn't got a 1000 yard rusher on the team right now, in fact they have close to nothing for a running game. So if anything they've got opposites, Cassel has a great passing game behind him and Brady had a great running game behind him.

I agree Tom Brady is one of the best QBs in history (believe me I've got two jerseys personally signed by him, not to mention a helmet, picture, and football, trust me I'm a fan) and easily the best in the league before his injury. BUT he might not come back to where he was and then what? Scratch your head because I don't know either.

pats this season average 4.2 yards and in 2001 they averaged 3.8. I know im scared he wont be the same either but something bout tom brady's attitude kind makes me feel good bout the situation. he deserves to be our QB next year. Matt Cassel hasnt proved it to me yet that he can replace brady. i think this question qould be better answered after we see how he does in the playoffs (if he does make it to the playoffs)

BoSoxGreen18
11-26-2008, 08:06 PM
like everyone and their mother's have been saying.... STOP COMPARING MATT CASSEL TO TOM BRADY! its just not fair to do that...

The Intimidator
11-27-2008, 12:21 PM
like everyone and their mother's have been saying.... STOP COMPARING MATT CASSEL TO TOM BRADY! its just not fair to do that...

Exactly. You take the entire body of work, not just 3 or 4 good games.

kazzy4080
11-27-2008, 06:52 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3728964

some good news bout TB

cneil99
11-29-2008, 12:57 AM
brady still has 4-5 really good years left. Cassel hasn't proven a thing yet. and those who are comparing bledsoe to brady are forgetting what kind of QB Bledsoe was. He is not what Brady is now and never was. How can anyone even question what QB to take. If you asked the other teams in the NFL who'd they rather have, i'm fairly certain 100% of them would be taking Tom Brady.

ddudeman0101
11-29-2008, 01:46 AM
And no matter how you split it, they both had 1000+ yard seasons, so I don't see the issue. You can't just go "oh well they got the ball that's why that happened" they we're getting the job done. NE hasn't got a 1000 yard rusher on the team right now, in fact they have close to nothing for a running game. So if anything they've got opposites, Cassel has a great passing game behind him and Brady had a great running game behind him.



Your right the Pats don't have a 1000 yard rusher but they also have had a lot of injuries in their running game. I looked at the numbers from 2001 and from this season and the Pats are going to end up with about the same amount of rushing yards this season as then. I don't discount what Cassel has done he has been better than I expected but he is no Brady.

Patsfan56
11-29-2008, 07:23 AM
Weren't we just all arguing about and comparing Cassel to Gutierrez and O'Connel a few weeks ago?:eyebrow:

Too soon. Much too soon for this discussion. I really like Cassel, but let'[s be real about this. He is paving his future to start for someone else. Good for him, he has earned this opportunity. But he will not be starting for our team nest season unless, well I'm not even going to say it,

The Intimidator
11-29-2008, 12:22 PM
Weren't we just all arguing about and comparing Cassel to Gutierrez and O'Connel a few weeks ago?:eyebrow:

Yeah, notice the Kevin O'Connell fan club hasn't set foot in this forum lately. :D


Too soon. Much too soon for this discussion. I really like Cassel, but let'[s be real about this. He is paving his future to start for someone else. Good for him, he has earned this opportunity. But he will not be starting for our team nest season unless, well I'm not even going to say it,

I'm not too sure that Cassel ends up elsewhere next season though. The Patriots almost always use the Franchise tag on someone, and who else deserves it other than Cassel? Franchising Cassel gives you options. You can bite the bullet and sign him to the one-year tender for 10 million plus dollars, or you can search for a trade (I still think you can trade a franchise tag player). It would be a smart business decision at this point, IMO.

Patsfan56
11-29-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm not too sure that Cassel ends up elsewhere next season though. The Patriots almost always use the Franchise tag on someone, and who else deserves it other than Cassel? Franchising Cassel gives you options. You can bite the bullet and sign him to the one-year tender for 10 million plus dollars, or you can search for a trade (I still think you can trade a franchise tag player). It would be a smart business decision at this point, IMO.


Good point. I was asking myself whether or not it was worth the $10 million to keep him, but you raise good points here. I am looking forward to seeing what happens.

PsychoTim
11-30-2008, 08:35 PM
OK, so can we stop all the "trade Brady" talk now?

Please?

Tragedy
12-01-2008, 04:23 AM
Cassel who is shaping up to be the-next Tom Brady has put up similar numbers to Brady's first year (if not better in some very important categories) and has shown the leadership and cooperation that Brady is also-known for.
Yeah, there was no difference. I mean, Cassel has nothing to work with while in Brady's rookie year, he had so many great WR's....

..Come on. Cassel is an above average QB, not much more than that. He's going to get a lot of money this offseason, and good for him. Tom Brady is the QB.

Vincent33
12-01-2008, 04:38 AM
Okay first off this thread is stupid. I am confident that Brady will come back healthy and play like the future HoFer he is next year. So that gives the Patriots another 4-7 yrs of having Brady which should equal roughly 4-7 more SB titles. I think Cassel is gone after this season to cash in w/ some horrible franchise. And I'm fine with that. At this point in Cassel's career he should be starting or he would've never made it as a pro and he'd be riding the bench. Also, the Patriots seem to be very high on O'Connell. And why not? He's got the Irish name, so he'll be more than welcomed in Boston. And then by the time Brady does retire, O'Connell will be ready to take over. And he'd still be 27-29yrs old and in his prime. New England just needs to do their best this year and then load up on defense in the off season/draft.

That was fun to write

Crickr
12-01-2008, 10:58 AM
Brady is the man of choice he isd the heart and soul of the team and will not be traded to keep Cassel in new England. Cassel is an ok QB but still not in Tom's league.