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pd7631
11-21-2008, 05:41 AM
Hey I'm a Sixers fan and I was just looking at Rodney Carney's stats this year and saw that he barely gets any playing time. I'm just curious as to why he doesn't play much for you guys. I realise that you have a team that is pretty loaded with young talent, and it's gotta be tough to play him at the 2/3 position when you have guys like: Mccants, Miller, Gomes, Foye, Brewer.....

He did a really good job for us down the stretch last season and helped push us into the playoffs with his energy on defense and clutch shooting. Obviously I don't know much about how your coach goes about coaching(uptempo, or half-court offense). If you guys are a team that pushes the ball he could really help you, and it would be fun to see him do well.

Thoughts/opinions?

WSU Tony
11-21-2008, 11:11 AM
We have 5 spots to play and 8-10 guys who could play them. He's getting the shaft, I guess. I'd prefer to have a few of these young guys as TRUE starters but instead we rotate them almost every night because bottom line, we only have 2 starters on this team (Miller and Jefferson).

This is why I'm proposing the Quality > Quantity going into this next draft. We don't need more young guys which we don't know where to put them, we need guys like Rubio we KNOW are going to start for us. 1 quality player and backups, that's how we should be built, instead of JUST backups.

JBoog35
11-21-2008, 03:20 PM
I had no doubt in my mind that he was not going to get any PT from the start. It's an organizational thing. They want to play Brewer, but in my mind Carney could take his minutes and probably be more effective.

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 04:00 PM
I had no doubt in my mind that he was not going to get any PT from the start. It's an organizational thing. They want to play Brewer, but in my mind Carney could take his minutes and probably be more effective.

I think Brewer is a better player, honestly. Also, Brewer was a high draft pick. If we don't play him, it makes it look as if we're wasting the pick. There may come a time when Carney is preferred over Brewer, but in order for Brewer to have any trade value, we need to get him some experience so that he can go out and show other teams what he is capable of.

silverson
11-21-2008, 05:03 PM
We have 5 spots to play and 8-10 guys who could play them. He's getting the shaft, I guess. I'd prefer to have a few of these young guys as TRUE starters but instead we rotate them almost every night because bottom line, we only have 2 starters on this team (Miller and Jefferson).

This is why I'm proposing the Quality > Quantity going into this next draft. We don't need more young guys which we don't know where to put them, we need guys like Rubio we KNOW are going to start for us. 1 quality player and backups, that's how we should be built, instead of JUST backups.

I am not sure if Rubio is starting 5 material yet. He is a super talented player, but he is very young and will need time.

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 05:37 PM
We have 5 spots to play and 8-10 guys who could play them. He's getting the shaft, I guess. I'd prefer to have a few of these young guys as TRUE starters but instead we rotate them almost every night because bottom line, we only have 2 starters on this team (Miller and Jefferson).

This is why I'm proposing the Quality > Quantity going into this next draft. We don't need more young guys which we don't know where to put them, we need guys like Rubio we KNOW are going to start for us. 1 quality player and backups, that's how we should be built, instead of JUST backups.

Yep. And this is the reason why we should've kept Mayo. We passed up a probable superstar for two guys who will never be superstars.

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 05:38 PM
I am not sure if Rubio is starting 5 material yet. He is a super talented player, but he is very young and will need time.

Why does everyone believe that Rubio will be in this year's draft? Everything I've heard says that he won't come out until 2010. And as far as Rubio being a starter, well, I think he could right away. Lood at Nicholas Batum. Played in the same league, I believe?, and he is a starter at 19. You gotta realize that these guys are playing in men's leagues right now.

When Rubio played in his own age group (now remember this is under 16), he had a quadruple-double. On the under 18 league, he avg'd 19 points, 5 assists and 4 steals a game. Not too shabby.

cwilson21
11-21-2008, 05:45 PM
I'd like to see Carney take some of Brewer's minutes away but that won't happen due to his being drafted so high.

silverson
11-21-2008, 05:49 PM
Why does everyone believe that Rubio will be in this year's draft? Everything I've heard says that he won't come out until 2010. And as far as Rubio being a starter, well, I think he could right away. Lood at Nicholas Batum. Played in the same league, I believe?, and he is a starter at 19. You gotta realize that these guys are playing in men's leagues right now.

When Rubio played in his own age group (now remember this is under 16), he had a quadruple-double. On the under 18 league, he avg'd 19 points, 5 assists and 4 steals a game. Not too shabby.

I dob't know if Rubio is going to be at this years draft. Batum and Rubio play different positions. PG is propably the hardest position in b-ball. It's different being a 19 yr old Forward to a 19 yr old PG. I am not saying to not get Rubio. I like the guy and I think he can be something like Nash or Parker. What I said has to do with him playing straight away.
As for the leagues they played, Batum is a French and Rubio is from Spain. So they propably played in different leagues. Not that this has something to do with our talk.

silverson
11-21-2008, 05:53 PM
I'd like to see Carney take some of Brewer's minutes away but that won't happen due to his being drafted so high.

It propably won't happen because you need a defensive presence in your team and because Gomes plays when Brewer gets to the bench. I also want to see more from Carney, but I don't think the main reason Brewer is playing more is his draft position.

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 06:13 PM
I dob't know if Rubio is going to be at this years draft. Batum and Rubio play different positions. PG is propably the hardest position in b-ball. It's different being a 19 yr old Forward to a 19 yr old PG. I am not saying to not get Rubio. I like the guy and I think he can be something like Nash or Parker. What I said has to do with him playing straight away.
As for the leagues they played, Batum is a French and Rubio is from Spain. So they propably played in different leagues. Not that this has something to do with our talk.

You'll find wherever you read, that Rubio's calling-card is his smarts on the floor. There could be the possibility that he doesn't have the strength to play on the pro level right away, but I think that mentally, he could start for the Wolves right away.

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 06:14 PM
It propably won't happen because you need a defensive presence in your team and because Gomes plays when Brewer gets to the bench. I also want to see more from Carney, but I don't think the main reason Brewer is playing more is his draft position.

I think that Brewer's D has been great. His shot looks better and better.

silverson
11-21-2008, 06:16 PM
I think that Brewer's D has been great. His shot looks better and better.

I agree 110%. And not only has his shot got better, he doesn't take a lot of silly shots this year. His game is more mature.

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 10:01 PM
I dob't know if Rubio is going to be at this years draft. Batum and Rubio play different positions. PG is propably the hardest position in b-ball. It's different being a 19 yr old Forward to a 19 yr old PG. I am not saying to not get Rubio. I like the guy and I think he can be something like Nash or Parker. What I said has to do with him playing straight away.
As for the leagues they played, Batum is a French and Rubio is from Spain. So they propably played in different leagues. Not that this has something to do with our talk.

Le Mans and Joventut are both Euroleague.

silverson
11-21-2008, 10:12 PM
Oh that's what you mean. In Europe basketball players play in 3 leagues every year. A national championship, a national cup and depending on their championship finishing position they participate in Euroleague. It's a league for the best teams all around Europe.
So you are right. And I explained what Euroleague is, in case someone didn't know it (and not to be a smart*** ;) )

tcman2007
11-21-2008, 10:15 PM
I agree 110%. And not only has his shot got better, he doesn't take a lot of silly shots this year. His game is more mature.

Yeah. He's not taking a ton of shots, but he is still being aggressive in taking shots when he is open. A lot of times last year, he shied away from open shots. If he's gonna play NBA Basketball, he's going to have to learn to hit that 15-footer. It's a must.

cwilson21
11-21-2008, 10:24 PM
I can't stand watching Brewer shoot the ball. Most horrific thing I've seen.

boeknows
11-22-2008, 02:47 AM
Why does everyone believe that Rubio will be in this year's draft? Everything I've heard says that he won't come out until 2010. And as far as Rubio being a starter, well, I think he could right away. Lood at Nicholas Batum. Played in the same league, I believe?, and he is a starter at 19. You gotta realize that these guys are playing in men's leagues right now.

When Rubio played in his own age group (now remember this is under 16), he had a quadruple-double. On the under 18 league, he avg'd 19 points, 5 assists and 4 steals a game. Not too shabby.

Yes Batum is starting right now. The only thing is he is averaging just over 15 minutes a game 2.5 rpg less than 1 apg and under 6 ppg. I wouldnt say he is doing great right now or anything. He shouldn't even be starting right now there are a couple guys on that team that should be starting before him.

boeknows
11-22-2008, 02:51 AM
Oh that's what you mean. In Europe basketball players play in 3 leagues every year. A national championship, a national cup and depending on their championship finishing position they participate in Euroleague. It's a league for the best teams all around Europe.
So you are right. And I explained what Euroleague is, in case someone didn't know it (and not to be a smart*** ;) )

Sweet i didnt know that about European basketball so thanks for the information.

WolvesFan23
11-23-2008, 09:55 PM
I wish Carney got more time but he has taken over the Gerald Green Niche which is barely any time on the court and Carney will either be relased or traded because he could start somewhere else we have so much young talent but we have no idea what to do with it, how to coach or even utilize players. Carney will be gone which is sad because he is a half decent guard

boeknows
11-23-2008, 10:09 PM
Maybe we will trade him and a 1st rounder too move up in the draft if we decide not to use him this year.

WSU Tony
11-23-2008, 10:41 PM
Maybe we will trade him and a 1st rounder too move up in the draft if we decide not to use him this year.

Or better yet package a 1st rounder, McCants, and Carney to speed up some teams development. We could move WAY up from that.

boeknows
11-24-2008, 02:46 AM
Or better yet package a 1st rounder, McCants, and Carney to speed up some teams development. We could move WAY up from that.

Yeah thats a better idea.

tcman2007
11-24-2008, 08:27 PM
Yes Batum is starting right now. The only thing is he is averaging just over 15 minutes a game 2.5 rpg less than 1 apg and under 6 ppg. I wouldnt say he is doing great right now or anything. He shouldn't even be starting right now there are a couple guys on that team that should be starting before him.

Just like Boe. Classic Boe. Misses the point entirely. I'm not saying that Rubio is a bona-fide starter, but it COULD happen. Why? Because Batum has started. That's all I'm saying. It could happen.

Also, think of this: Rubio probably won't come out until 2010. By that time, he'll be 20 years old and with solid professional experience (as well as experience in Olympic play). It's not that much of a stretch to suggest that he could start. KG was a starter at 21. LeBron was also a starter before that age. It's obvious that Rubio has special skills. Some have even said that he is the "best European prospect since Drazen Petrovic"--that's pretty high praise.

WolvesFan23
11-25-2008, 01:19 AM
Or better yet package a 1st rounder, McCants, and Carney to speed up some teams development. We could move WAY up from that.

Yes McCants should be unloaded he is getting hurt and he can score but he plays selfish i noticed with him out of the wolves lineup helped the team and made us better and forced us to take care of the ball. With Foye finally blossoming and Miller a sure starter we have no need for McCants but id keep Carney he is a boatload of potential he really helped PHILA last year in the playoffs

boeknows
11-25-2008, 01:43 AM
Just like Boe. Classic Boe. Misses the point entirely. I'm not saying that Rubio is a bona-fide starter, but it COULD happen. Why? Because Batum has started. That's all I'm saying. It could happen.

Also, think of this: Rubio probably won't come out until 2010. By that time, he'll be 20 years old and with solid professional experience (as well as experience in Olympic play). It's not that much of a stretch to suggest that he could start. KG was a starter at 21. LeBron was also a starter before that age. It's obvious that Rubio has special skills. Some have even said that he is the "best European prospect since Drazen Petrovic"--that's pretty high praise.

And im saying that Batum isnt ready to be starting in the NBA and shouldnt be. So just because other guys have done it means that he is able to do it. Maybe i am missing ur point.

Tblaze
11-25-2008, 10:43 AM
And im saying that Batum isnt ready to be starting in the NBA and shouldnt be. So just because other guys have done it means that he is able to do it. Maybe i am missing ur point.

Well the blazers actually have 2 players who they prefer over Batum, but Webster is injured and they want Outlaw as a 6th man giving a spark off the bench. Add to that the fact that Batum complements the starters very well because he's a hustling player and mainly focused on defense.

But as it has been previously stated in this topic. The main probably of minnesota is their preference of Quantity over Quality. Which was shown by the Mayo trade. The Roy for Foye trade doesn't count the same way because at draft day time they showed pretty much the same potential.
However the Mayo trade was really weird in my opinion. Al Jefferson is an already undersized Post presence, so getting Kevin Love really didn't make sense to me. He will be a very decent player, easily a starter, but he will never be a superstar. And Mayo clearly did have superstar potential, instead they rather traded for need. And I think when you're building a team you shouldn't look at need to much yet. Now you guys have Mike Miller, who is probably in his prime.. and you don't need players who are in their prime right now if you're rebuilding through the draft.

Minnesota is stuck with 10 players who are nice talents, but exept for Al no1 has (super)star potential. On top of that I don't think Al is a real leader for their team which Mayo could've been. He's quite similar to Elton Brand or Zach Randolph in my point of view. So what Minnesota desperately needs to do is package some of those young talents and picks to get either top 10 picks and use them well this time and not trade them away for worse players. Or trade for some all-star caliber talents. Of course it's easier said then done, but minnesota management really has made some decisions I just don't get.

Oefarmy2005
11-25-2008, 12:15 PM
Well the blazers actually have 2 players who they prefer over Batum, but Webster is injured and they want Outlaw as a 6th man giving a spark off the bench. Add to that the fact that Batum complements the starters very well because he's a hustling player and mainly focused on defense.

But as it has been previously stated in this topic. The main probably of minnesota is their preference of Quantity over Quality. Which was shown by the Mayo trade. The Roy for Foye trade doesn't count the same way because at draft day time they showed pretty much the same potential.
However the Mayo trade was really weird in my opinion. Al Jefferson is an already undersized Post presence, so getting Kevin Love really didn't make sense to me. He will be a very decent player, easily a starter, but he will never be a superstar. And Mayo clearly did have superstar potential, instead they rather traded for need. And I think when you're building a team you shouldn't look at need to much yet. Now you guys have Mike Miller, who is probably in his prime.. and you don't need players who are in their prime right now if you're rebuilding through the draft.

Minnesota is stuck with 10 players who are nice talents, but exept for Al no1 has (super)star potential. On top of that I don't think Al is a real leader for their team which Mayo could've been. He's quite similar to Elton Brand or Zach Randolph in my point of view. So what Minnesota desperately needs to do is package some of those young talents and picks to get either top 10 picks and use them well this time and not trade them away for worse players. Or trade for some all-star caliber talents. Of course it's easier said then done, but minnesota management really has made some decisions I just don't get.

First off, Batum has been projected as high as top ten in mock drafts, so he has to have a ton of upside and I can't believe that you would even compare him to Webster, who is clearly way undersized for SF.

Second, your team has a bunch of quantity players also, who are better than our quantity of players, but no-one of allstar caliber besides Roy, and maybe Oden if he can stop getting injured.

And if you think that telling Minnesota fans that our front office sucks is come kind of news, you are cleary mistaken. We know that our ownership and management has been terrible and the only thing that this team has ever done right was draft Garnett. And Roy is clearly better than Foye, at least right now, but as far as I understand the Wolves would have never drafted Roy in the first place so it's a bad draft for us and not a bad trade IMO.

I also think that Love is very special, maybe not Mayo special, but special non-the-less. The thing that sold me on that trade was getting rid of Jaric, Walker and buckner for Miller. Either way, I don't see Love becoming anything in Minnesota, because we seem to screw-up some very talented players. I think it's our way about treating rookies is what makes the big difference, and not who we trade. Trust me when I say that Mayo wouldn't even start for us, because that's what we do to rookies, we yank them for stupid crap and make them loose their confidence.

Tblaze
11-25-2008, 01:05 PM
First off, Batum has been projected as high as top ten in mock drafts, so he has to have a ton of upside and I can't believe that you would even compare him to Webster, who is clearly way undersized for SF.

Second, your team has a bunch of quantity players also, who are better than our quantity of players, but no-one of allstar caliber besides Roy, and maybe Oden if he can stop getting injured.



First off, I don't see why you're going all hostile on me. Second, all the stuff you say about portland makes no sense at all. If you base upside on the draft order then I don't see why you would put batum over webster? Webster was a 6th overall pick. He is only 22, and when he comes back from his injury he will take over the starting job from Batum again as he should. You tell me that you can't believe I put webster over Batum? Tell me how many portland games have you watched lately or last year? I've seen them all except maybe 2 or 3. So I'm pretty sure I have a good view on who is the better player for the position. Also saying Webster is undersized? He's 6"7. Nearly as big as Batum, so I don't see where you got that from. And last, I'm pretty sure Aldridge can be counted as all-star caliber player :).

ryguy2k7
11-25-2008, 05:44 PM
We HAVE to trade up in the draft (assuming we don't get the number 1 or 2 pick). With all of our assets, we can afford to lose some players to obtain a great player in the draft (Rubio, Thabeet...etc.)

and I think Rubio would start at PG for us.

Assuming we draft Rubio, get rid of Carney/McCants and two first rounders next year...we could have a really solid young core...much better than it is now with a lot of options for the 2010 FA class. Awesome.

Rubio
Foye
Miller
Love/Gomes
Jefferson

that looks delicious.

kambion
11-25-2008, 11:04 PM
Hey I'm a Sixers fan and I was just looking at Rodney Carney's stats this year and saw that he barely gets any playing time. I'm just curious as to why he doesn't play much for you guys. I realise that you have a team that is pretty loaded with young talent, and it's gotta be tough to play him at the 2/3 position when you have guys like: Mccants, Miller, Gomes, Foye, Brewer.....

He did a really good job for us down the stretch last season and helped push us into the playoffs with his energy on defense and clutch shooting. Obviously I don't know much about how your coach goes about coaching(uptempo, or half-court offense). If you guys are a team that pushes the ball he could really help you, and it would be fun to see him do well.

Thoughts/opinions?

he has shot about 10 airballs allready, and corewy brewer bassically takes his minuets well see how things develop tho

Mauersota
11-25-2008, 11:44 PM
Rubio
Foye
Miller
Love/Gomes
Jefferson

that looks delicious.

I don't know why every time I see a lineup of Love and Jefferson starting at PF and C it just doesn't "look" great. I mean looking at a Rubio, Mayo, Miller 1-3 lineup looks great then adding Love and Jefferson to me for whatever unexplainable reason just doesn't "feel" right (though I know it took Mayo to get Miller).

Though

Rubio
Foye
Miller
Jefferson
Thabeet

I like, one thing is that I love Jennings and if being in the Euroleague makes him a better defensive player forget what I say but I really don't like a Jennings, Foye, Miller lineup defensively though I love it offensively.

boeknows
11-26-2008, 04:11 AM
I don't know why every time I see a lineup of Love and Jefferson starting at PF and C it just doesn't "look" great. I mean looking at a Rubio, Mayo, Miller 1-3 lineup looks great then adding Love and Jefferson to me for whatever unexplainable reason just doesn't "feel" right (though I know it took Mayo to get Miller).

Though

Rubio
Foye
Miller
Jefferson
Thabeet

I like, one thing is that I love Jennings and if being in the Euroleague makes him a better defensive player forget what I say but I really don't like a Jennings, Foye, Miller lineup defensively though I love it offensively.


Ive always thought that European players are better shooters rather than better defenders. Or players that play in Europe.

silverson
11-26-2008, 11:16 AM
Ive always thought that European players are better shooters rather than better defenders. Or players that play in Europe.

I think I know why you think that Boe. Defensive rules are different here than in the NBA. As I've said, I never played proffesional bball, so I don't exactly what the differences are. But that is the reason why when European teams play in US they have problem. The same thing goes for the US national team when they play in international tournaments.
But reporters and coaches say that D in Europe is much tighter than in the NBA. And fouls is much harder given here. I also noticed that they have a lot more defensive systems. As for the players defense is vital for everyone. I will always remember a player that was changing his team defence from a zone to man to man depending on the play, during a game.

Mauersota
11-26-2008, 12:23 PM
Ive always thought that European players are better shooters rather than better defenders. Or players that play in Europe.

In addition to what silverson said (which I am learning quite a bit from in on the euroleague), Jennings coach(s) are working on his defense since it his weakness so that is why I made that comment.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 01:18 PM
And im saying that Batum isnt ready to be starting in the NBA and shouldnt be. So just because other guys have done it means that he is able to do it. Maybe i am missing ur point.

Yeah, you are missing the point. All I was trying to say is that it can be done. Kevin Love started some games--he's 20. OJ Mayo just turned 21. He's putting up big #'s. Look at Derrick Rose: turned 20 last month. He played only one season of college ball, and he's puttin' down nearly 20 points a game while shooting nearly 50% from the field. So, to say that "Batum shouldn't start, so therefore Rubio shouldn't start" doesn't negate the trend of young players (a few of them guards) having major success starting for NBA teams. And besides, you just saying "Batum shouldn't start" doesn't hold any water, anyways, seeing how you're not an NBA Coach. So, to begin with, that comment doesn't have much validity. A start is a start is a start. If it's good enough for Nate McMillan to start Batum, it's good enough for me.

I like how you gloss over the point of Rubio already having professional (as well as Olympic) experience. Like another person mentioned, Brandon Jennings is already being schooled on his defense over there. Rubio has already proven he can play outstanding defense against that level of play.

But maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe we shouldn't draft Rubio to be a starter in '10. Maybe we should just get Drew Neitzel to start for us NOW. Why wait for excellence? LOL.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 01:37 PM
Well the blazers actually have 2 players who they prefer over Batum, but Webster is injured and they want Outlaw as a 6th man giving a spark off the bench. Add to that the fact that Batum complements the starters very well because he's a hustling player and mainly focused on defense.

But as it has been previously stated in this topic. The main probably of minnesota is their preference of Quantity over Quality. Which was shown by the Mayo trade. The Roy for Foye trade doesn't count the same way because at draft day time they showed pretty much the same potential.
However the Mayo trade was really weird in my opinion. Al Jefferson is an already undersized Post presence, so getting Kevin Love really didn't make sense to me. He will be a very decent player, easily a starter, but he will never be a superstar. And Mayo clearly did have superstar potential, instead they rather traded for need. And I think when you're building a team you shouldn't look at need to much yet. Now you guys have Mike Miller, who is probably in his prime.. and you don't need players who are in their prime right now if you're rebuilding through the draft.

Minnesota is stuck with 10 players who are nice talents, but exept for Al no1 has (super)star potential. On top of that I don't think Al is a real leader for their team which Mayo could've been. He's quite similar to Elton Brand or Zach Randolph in my point of view. So what Minnesota desperately needs to do is package some of those young talents and picks to get either top 10 picks and use them well this time and not trade them away for worse players. Or trade for some all-star caliber talents. Of course it's easier said then done, but minnesota management really has made some decisions I just don't get.

Yes, I agree. I think Al Jefferson is struggling to be a leader. I think he can become that guy, but for right now, it isn't happening. I think that also has a lot to say about the head coach, too. If Randy Wittman was smart, he wouldn't put all of the weight on Jefferson's shoulders before Al is mature enough to be a leader. I wish Randy would take the Flip Saunders approach and have veterans run this team and have Big Al learn what (and not) to do. K.G. didn't become the # 1 leader on the Wolves for some time. We always had guys like Terrell Brandon and Sam Mitchell. They kind of handed that responsibility to K.G. when they moved on.

As far as "quantity vs. quality" look at what Boston had to deal away to get a star. I'm not saying that Mayo is gonna be as good as K.G., but in order to get a superstar on your team (especially if you're a small-market like Minny) you have to get a lucky first round pick. I just don't see the Minnesota Timberwolves being able to trade or sign a superstar player. Our best chances are to draft those players--like we did in '95. Trading Mayo away is already looking like it was a big mistake. If this guy is putting up 30 points per game in a few years, the Wolves will seriously regret it.

silverson
11-26-2008, 03:27 PM
Tcman I think what Boe is trying to say is that the fact Batum is starting (the fact that he doesn't agree with that is irrelevant), doesn't mean that if Rubio comes he will be ready to do the same thing. From what I understand that has nothing to do with picking or not Rubio, rather with the fact that different people react (or if you like adjust) differently. I am sorry to get in the middle. And I am sorry if I didn't understand something right.
Now regarding the quality vs. quantity theory and the Mayo trade (2 topics that have been much discussed here) I am of the opinion that the Twolves wanted first to create a team (with team spirit, jelled together, with players that may lack the quality as people say but not passion, and who want to be here) and then bring in the stars. They have tried the opposite direction several times (with 2 highly talented drafts in K.G. and Marbury or with win now attitude with Spree and Cassell.)Which was good but showed that it is short term. I think that the team is now ready to welcome a highly talented pick (like Mayo is and a player like DeRozan can be) and the year after that, use the cap space and bring a star FA if possible.
If we do take a good player from the draft right now, he will come in a team that has Al, Miller, Love, Foye, Brewer, Telfair, Gomes and Smith going out every night and giving their all. Because they have learned to do that these 2 years. The adjusting process will be much easier.
Or it might be just me and my optimistic views again...

WSU Tony
11-26-2008, 03:40 PM
Good post Silverson, I agree.

silverson
11-26-2008, 04:02 PM
Good post Silverson, I agree.

Thanks Tony!

WSU Tony
11-26-2008, 04:37 PM
This organization has tried many ways for a championship, like you said, all of which failed. I suppose a total rehaul of the organization was an opportunity, more than anything. Like you said, build the organization with young guys who WANT to be here and after a good work ethic and will to be apart of this has been instilled, then bring in the big talent. We have instilled the hard work ethic and young willing talent, now with our 5 first round picks in 2 years and tons of cap room, we can go out and get those "top talent" type guys. I will, though, be very dissapointed if we go out and do the same old trade down play we did last year. We have the talent we need for backups and depths with a few bright spots including Jefferson, Miller, and Foye, now bring in big talent to fill the gaps.

silverson
11-26-2008, 05:09 PM
Exactly. I've built a house here in Athens (I move on Sunday :) ). Before I looked at the furnitures that are going to give character to my place, I made sure that the basics were there. I know this may sound like an awful example.
And I agree with you 110%. If we go in this years draft trading down, I will be extremely disapointed.

WSU Tony
11-26-2008, 05:41 PM
Maybe the cement foundation being dry before you start building would be a better example but I catch your drift. ;)

boeknows
11-26-2008, 08:45 PM
In addition to what silverson said (which I am learning quite a bit from in on the euroleague), Jennings coach(s) are working on his defense since it his weakness so that is why I made that comment.

Cool i didnt know that they were doing that with him. I dont get to hear a whole lot about it. I agree it is nice to have silverson on here so i get to learn a lot more about euroleague.

boeknows
11-26-2008, 08:49 PM
Yeah, you are missing the point. All I was trying to say is that it can be done. Kevin Love started some games--he's 20. OJ Mayo just turned 21. He's putting up big #'s. Look at Derrick Rose: turned 20 last month. He played only one season of college ball, and he's puttin' down nearly 20 points a game while shooting nearly 50% from the field. So, to say that "Batum shouldn't start, so therefore Rubio shouldn't start" doesn't negate the trend of young players (a few of them guards) having major success starting for NBA teams. And besides, you just saying "Batum shouldn't start" doesn't hold any water, anyways, seeing how you're not an NBA Coach. So, to begin with, that comment doesn't have much validity. A start is a start is a start. If it's good enough for Nate McMillan to start Batum, it's good enough for me.

I like how you gloss over the point of Rubio already having professional (as well as Olympic) experience. Like another person mentioned, Brandon Jennings is already being schooled on his defense over there. Rubio has already proven he can play outstanding defense against that level of play.

But maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe we shouldn't draft Rubio to be a starter in '10. Maybe we should just get Drew Neitzel to start for us NOW. Why wait for excellence? LOL.

I wasnt saying anything about Rubio. I was just saying that Batum should be starting on their team right now. And i can reverse that around too. So just because Batum is starting now and he started in Europe does that mean the Rubio should start too? Once again i wasnt saying anything about Rubio because i havent seen him play enough. I dont know if he should start or not im just going by what i have read about him. Which some say he is ready and some say he might need some work first. All i was saying is that Batum shouldn't be starting their right now. Outlaw should be starting over him and when Webster gets back he could be starting over him.

boeknows
11-26-2008, 08:52 PM
Tcman I think what Boe is trying to say is that the fact Batum is starting (the fact that he doesn't agree with that is irrelevant), doesn't mean that if Rubio comes he will be ready to do the same thing. From what I understand that has nothing to do with picking or not Rubio, rather with the fact that different people react (or if you like adjust) differently. I am sorry to get in the middle. And I am sorry if I didn't understand something right.

Yeah thats exactly what i was trying to say.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 09:02 PM
Tcman I think what Boe is trying to say is that the fact Batum is starting (the fact that he doesn't agree with that is irrelevant), doesn't mean that if Rubio comes he will be ready to do the same thing. From what I understand that has nothing to do with picking or not Rubio, rather with the fact that different people react (or if you like adjust) differently. I am sorry to get in the middle. And I am sorry if I didn't understand something right.
Now regarding the quality vs. quantity theory and the Mayo trade (2 topics that have been much discussed here) I am of the opinion that the Twolves wanted first to create a team (with team spirit, jelled together, with players that may lack the quality as people say but not passion, and who want to be here) and then bring in the stars. They have tried the opposite direction several times (with 2 highly talented drafts in K.G. and Marbury or with win now attitude with Spree and Cassell.)Which was good but showed that it is short term. I think that the team is now ready to welcome a highly talented pick (like Mayo is and a player like DeRozan can be) and the year after that, use the cap space and bring a star FA if possible.
If we do take a good player from the draft right now, he will come in a team that has Al, Miller, Love, Foye, Brewer, Telfair, Gomes and Smith going out every night and giving their all. Because they have learned to do that these 2 years. The adjusting process will be much easier.
Or it might be just me and my optimistic views again...

It's all good. I just wish Boe would be brave enough to offer up his own opinion in threads rather than just going around nit-picking little bits that have nothing to do with the main idea of what someone is trying to say.

Sure, just because Batum starts doesn't mean that Rubio will ABSOLUTELY start. That wasn't what I was trying to say. I was making an example to say that "it could be done". Boe assuming me saying: "Batum starts, then Rubio WILL start too" is him missing the point. If he doesn't think that Rubio is able to start in the NBA, then he should say why. That's what these threads are for--to discuss. Not to just run around criticizing other's posts and not offering any alternative POV.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 09:03 PM
Boe won't put up his own thoughts, IMO, 'cos he's afraid of someone doing to him what he does to everyone else--being critical.

silverson
11-26-2008, 09:06 PM
Cool i didnt know that they were doing that with him. I dont get to hear a whole lot about it. I agree it is nice to have silverson on here so i get to learn a lot more about euroleague.

Thanks guys for the good words. And I am sorry Boe and Tcman for barging in.

boeknows
11-26-2008, 09:07 PM
Boe won't put up his own thoughts, IMO, 'cos he's afraid of someone doing to him what he does to everyone else--being critical.

Yeah thats why i stuck to my thoughts on Neitzel and predicted the Love Mayo trade 5 days before it happened. Yep im afraid.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 09:10 PM
I wasnt saying anything about Rubio. I was just saying that Batum should be starting on their team right now. And i can reverse that around too. So just because Batum is starting now and he started in Europe does that mean the Rubio should start too? Once again i wasnt saying anything about Rubio because i havent seen him play enough. I dont know if he should start or not im just going by what i have read about him. Which some say he is ready and some say he might need some work first. All i was saying is that Batum shouldn't be starting their right now. Outlaw should be starting over him and when Webster gets back he could be starting over him.

Well, then we're on two different topics, then. I didn't bring up Batum to talk about the Trailblazers, dude. Silverson and I weren't talking about the Blazers at all. I was talking about Ricky Rubio's ability to start in the NBA. If you have something to say about that, then cool. If you don't, don't bother interjecting into someone's conversation.

boeknows
11-26-2008, 09:13 PM
Well, then we're on two different topics, then. I didn't bring up Batum to talk about the Trailblazers, dude. Silverson and I weren't talking about the Blazers at all. I was talking about Ricky Rubio's ability to start in the NBA. If you have something to say about that, then cool. If you don't, don't bother interjecting into someone's conversation.

And when u said something about Batum thats when i commented. So sorry to rain on ur parade.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 09:15 PM
Yeah thats why i stuck to my thoughts on Neitzel and predicted the Love Mayo trade 5 days before it happened. Yep im afraid.

Whatever, dude. If you want to talk about Ricky Rubio, then cool, if you don't just stay out of other people's conversations.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 09:19 PM
And when u said something about Batum thats when i commented. So sorry to rain on ur parade.

It was an EXAMPLE to back up the point I was trying to make. I wasn't inviting you to come chat about who should or shouldn't start for the Portland Trailblazers.

boeknows
11-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Whatever, dude. If you want to talk about Ricky Rubio, then cool, if you don't just stay out of other people's conversations.

O im sorry i thought this was a thread that everyone could post in. I didnt know it was just one for u and whoever u choose. Thanks for filling me in on that one.

tcman2007
11-26-2008, 09:38 PM
O im sorry i thought this was a thread that everyone could post in. I didnt know it was just one for u and whoever u choose. Thanks for filling me in on that one.

Hey, it's cool. I'm not trying to be a dick. I understand you weren't saying anything about Rubio. I understand you were making a comment about the Blazers, fine. But why did you bring the Blazers up? You did it because you wanted to throw a cog in my argument. Now are you doing that because you believe my main argument is wrong, or are you just trying to be a jerk? What am I supposed to think when you don't offer an alternate view? It's cool, dude. I respect your opinion, but if you're going to come into another conversation, please do so because you actually oppose (or agree) with what my main point is. If you don't know anything about Rubio 'cos you haven't watched him play, why are you coming into a conversation about Rubio? I don't get it.

boeknows
11-27-2008, 03:08 AM
Hey, it's cool. I'm not trying to be a dick. I understand you weren't saying anything about Rubio. I understand you were making a comment about the Blazers, fine. But why did you bring the Blazers up? You did it because you wanted to throw a cog in my argument. Now are you doing that because you believe my main argument is wrong, or are you just trying to be a jerk? What am I supposed to think when you don't offer an alternate view? It's cool, dude. I respect your opinion, but if you're going to come into another conversation, please do so because you actually oppose (or agree) with what my main point is. If you don't know anything about Rubio 'cos you haven't watched him play, why are you coming into a conversation about Rubio? I don't get it.

Because u made it seem like just because Batum is starting in the NBA that any guy from Europe should be able to start. But whatever. The point i was trying to make the other guys got and understood what i was saying so my point i was trying to get across was successful. I will leave the conversation alone from now on since i guess i hurt ur feelings.

IowaAJ
11-27-2008, 12:05 PM
I'd like to take Thabeet first and then Lawson later in the 1st round. Watching him play vs Notre Dame this kid is healthy again and can get up the court so fast man that would be a fun team to watch with Lawson at the Point. The points I would take right now are Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio I don't know too much about him except that he played in the olympics.

Back to the subject I think Carney is a good player that brings a lot of energy to the floor and could help us but right now he just hasn't played well enough to win one of the
spots in the main rotation. We have so many players that play the same positions so that is why he hasn't played that much.

IowaAJ
11-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Please Don't let Mchale fall in Love with Hansborough because we don't need another undersized power Forward.

eric1501
11-27-2008, 12:23 PM
Please Don't let Mchale fall in Love with Hansborough because we don't need another undersized power Forward.

I said this about 10 days after we traded for Love. If we draft Hansborough too I will seriously be done liking the Timberwolves. After liking them all my life that would be the final straw. :puke:


Why is our 2 guard play awful this year? Mike Miller hasn't done ****. Foye seems to play well when he is the 2 guard but still shows flashes at the point. The point is Telfair is nothing better then a backup at this point. His shot is so awful not to mention he can't make free throws for some reason. I am telling all of you, I don't care how undersized Stephen Curry is but he is the answer to our team. We need someone that can FLAT OUT score. So please tell me a different POV on Curry besides he is undersized. The man can simply create his own shot and thats exactly what we need. The only person that can do that right now on our squad is Shad Cants. But of course I am not saying draft Curry with our top 5 pick. But if he stays in the top 15 range (which I think he shoots up top 10 for sure after this year) we need to trade all of our picks besides our top 5 to land Curry.

Imagine this:

PG Brandon Jennings/Sebastian Telfair
SG Randy Foye/Stephen Curry
SF Mike Miller/Corey Brewer
PF Kevin Love/Craig Smith/Ryan Gome
C Big Ugly/Jason Collins

silverson
11-27-2008, 01:10 PM
So am I the only one who really likes Miller? I just think that the problem is the role that is assigned to him. He is a SF, not a SG. And Foye is a SG not a PG. His game has become better now that he plays with Telfair on his side.
As for the argument that we have too many players in some positions, i'd like to remind you that every player brings another aspect. Smith and Love are PF. Do they play the same?

eric1501
11-27-2008, 04:30 PM
So am I the only one who really likes Miller? I just think that the problem is the role that is assigned to him. He is a SF, not a SG. And Foye is a SG not a PG. His game has become better now that he plays with Telfair on his side.
As for the argument that we have too many players in some positions, i'd like to remind you that every player brings another aspect. Smith and Love are PF. Do they play the same?


Trust me I like Mike Miller. I lived in Aberdeen SD for the first 18 years of my life and of course Mike played in Mitchell SD. One of my friends I actually went to high school with knocked up Mikes sister and they are married now and sometimes I get to go with him with the family pass and go on the floor and back by the locker room. But enough of that. Mike is a very solid player and should be our 2nd option on offense but that clearly hasn't been the case all season long. Wittman has no idea what he is doing sometimes. And yes you are right MM is more of a SF then a SG. Thats why we need to draft Curry and move Mike over to the 3 and start Foye at the 2. Hopefully we can get Jennings and things will really start to devolpe in Minny.

silverson
11-27-2008, 05:30 PM
I am too leaning on the idea of getting a SG at the draft. I think the team is ready to embrace a high scoring guard in the team. The only drawback I see is that if do that Foye is locked at PG. I want to wait the whole season to check how this will go.
As for who this SG can be, there are options available. Due to the fact I can't watch NCAA I know just what I read about players. Do Curry's descriptions resemble Foye? There are also DeRozan or Harden. I kind of like what I hear about Harden. Anybody seen him play?

boeknows
11-27-2008, 09:02 PM
I just looked at DeRozan's stats and they look horrible. I havent seen him play yet this year. Is he jsut having trouble adjusting to college or why is he have such troubles. Has anyone gotten to see him play yet this year and if so whats ur opinion.

eric1501
11-28-2008, 02:07 AM
I just looked at DeRozan's stats and they look horrible. I havent seen him play yet this year. Is he jsut having trouble adjusting to college or why is he have such troubles. Has anyone gotten to see him play yet this year and if so whats ur opinion.

I watched the game against Mizzou and he seems to force alot of shots. He also doesn't get that many mins yet just because its early in the season. As the season goes he will start to pick up more mins. He usually plays around 20-25mins a game while the other starters are getting 35-38 mins. He still has amazing talent and has pretty good hops. His 3 ball is kind of there but its not a pretty stroke by all means.

boeknows
11-28-2008, 10:19 PM
I watched the game against Mizzou and he seems to force alot of shots. He also doesn't get that many mins yet just because its early in the season. As the season goes he will start to pick up more mins. He usually plays around 20-25mins a game while the other starters are getting 35-38 mins. He still has amazing talent and has pretty good hops. His 3 ball is kind of there but its not a pretty stroke by all means.

It shows that he doesnt even shoot the 3 on yahoo. It says he is 0 for 5 right now. Is that wrong? Thanks for the info though by the way.

eric1501
11-28-2008, 11:22 PM
It shows that he doesnt even shoot the 3 on yahoo. It says he is 0 for 5 right now. Is that wrong? Thanks for the info though by the way.

Yeah he hasn't much yet. I was just assuming from all the 3s he made in high school that its kind of there. But the one 3 he shot against Mizzou didn't even hit the rim so who knows?

boeknows
11-29-2008, 05:55 AM
o ok