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View Full Version : 2007/2008 #1 picks, Who will be better in the short run and long run? Rose or Oden



JordansBulls
11-20-2008, 05:00 PM
The last 2 #1 picks in 2007/2008 have been Greg Oden and Derrick Rose. With that in mind, which player would you rather have in the "short run" (next 3 years) and the "long run" (next 10+ years), Greg Oden or Derrick Rose?

SteveNash
11-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Oden short and long term. He's worth the risk.

Rose seems like the kind of guy who will put up good numbers but your team won't go anywhere with him as the foundation and if he does, he'll probably choke it away anyway. Seems more like a SG than a real playmaker. I'll take the 7' Center easily

Draco
11-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Oden short and long term. He's worth the risk.

Rose seems like the kind of guy who will put up good numbers but your team won't go anywhere with him as the foundation and if he does, he'll probably choke it away anyway. Seems more like a SG than a real playmaker. I'll take the 7' Center easily

:rolleyes:

JordansBulls
11-20-2008, 06:26 PM
Better meaning for the success of your team.

Hawkeye15
11-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Seeing as Oden hasn't proved he can stay on the floor, I pick Rose. Besides, I think Oden will be a terrific defender, but I am not sold on his offensive game. Rose will be a stud, I have said it since the draft. He will rank with Paul and Williams in the next 2 years.

JordansBulls
11-20-2008, 06:55 PM
Seeing as Oden hasn't proved he can stay on the floor, I pick Rose. Besides, I think Oden will be a terrific defender, but I am not sold on his offensive game. Rose will be a stud, I have said it since the draft. He will rank with Paul and Williams in the next 2 years.

I sure hope he does.

Hawkeye15
11-20-2008, 06:58 PM
I sure hope he does.

he will. I watched him at Memphis, this kid is an unreal athlete, with real point guard skills. I love the people who point out he isn't a good shooter. Um, Paul isn't either. But, if you can't keep a guy out of the lane, he doesn't need to be a good shooter. When I saw Rose double pump dunk in traffic while taking off outside the lane at Memphis, that was it. I decided he would be a star. That isn't possible for true point guards to do that, but he did.

MyCousinVinny
11-20-2008, 07:20 PM
Rose is already a star. by the end of the year hell be around 20 and 8. thats almost as good as paul now and basically the same as deron tho hes not deron yet

Raps18-19 Champ
11-20-2008, 07:38 PM
screw both those players

We want Bargnani

lol

Flash812
11-20-2008, 07:42 PM
Oden is the real deal, I watched him play and he was a beast in a short amount of time against the Hornets. He will show his worth by the middle of the season and he going to keep inproving for years to come.

SteveNash
11-20-2008, 08:07 PM
:rolleyes:

Tell me how great Thabo, Tyrus and Joakim are going to be.


he will. I watched him at Memphis, this kid is an unreal athlete, with real point guard skills. I love the people who point out he isn't a good shooter. Um, Paul isn't either. But, if you can't keep a guy out of the lane, he doesn't need to be a good shooter. When I saw Rose double pump dunk in traffic while taking off outside the lane at Memphis, that was it. I decided he would be a star. That isn't possible for true point guards to do that, but he did.

So one dunk impresses you? And you weren't impressed by Oden dominating future NBA players in Al Horford and Joakim Noah?

Hawkeye15
11-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Tell me how great Thabo, Tyrus and Joakim are going to be.



So one dunk impresses you? And you weren't impressed by Oden dominating future NBA players in Al Horford and Joakim Noah?

I have seen a lot of dunks. I already thought he was special, but when I saw him take off from 9' from the rim, double pump, and dunk easy with two hands, I just thought to myself, I have never seen a true point guard who can do that. That is all I meant. I think he is what Stephon Marbury could have been, minus the insaneness

Ansy
11-20-2008, 11:03 PM
Oden's per 36 minute stats:

17.4ppg
13.4rpg
4.4bpk
FG% .514
TS% .587

Rose's per 36 stats:

17.6ppg
5.3apg
4.2rpg
FG% .467
TS% .537

Oden's scoring can be discounted a little because his offensive skillset (Monstrous dunking) blends well with the great playmakers Portland has. However, he also gets a lot of those dunks using his excellent footwork and working the glass. His rebounding and shot-blocking are simply amazing. He gets a lot of heat for being injury-prone but his injuries aren't connected or recurring. He's vulnerable to injury because of his size, similar to the way that Yao is, and that guy's done just fine. He probably won't ever play 80 games in a season but it's unlikely that his career will be cut substantially short by them.

In the end, I think both teams are better off with the guy they have. Chicago needs a centerpiece to build around going forward, and they need that guy to be on the floor for 70+ games a season and 35+ minutes a game. Portland needs a dominant talent to make them contenders, but they can get to the playoffs with him missing 25 games a season.

IBleedPurple
11-20-2008, 11:05 PM
Seeing as Oden hasn't proved he can stay on the floor, I pick Rose. Besides, I think Oden will be a terrific defender, but I am not sold on his offensive game. Rose will be a stud, I have said it since the draft. He will rank with Paul and Williams in the next 2 years.

:clap:

I don't see quite the offensive talent that Paul had at this point in his young career, but Rose isn't far behind. Rose works really hard, is a great athlete, and is most of all.....a winner.

If he keeps working hard, I agree he will be up with CP3 & Willams within 2 or 3 years.

Kyben36
11-20-2008, 11:47 PM
Oden's per 36 minute stats:

17.4ppg
13.4rpg
4.4bpk
FG% .514
TS% .587

Rose's per 36 stats:

17.6ppg
5.3apg
4.2rpg
FG% .467
TS% .537

Oden's scoring can be discounted a little because his offensive skillset (Monstrous dunking) blends well with the great playmakers Portland has. However, he also gets a lot of those dunks using his excellent footwork and working the glass. His rebounding and shot-blocking are simply amazing. He gets a lot of heat for being injury-prone but his injuries aren't connected or recurring. He's vulnerable to injury because of his size, similar to the way that Yao is, and that guy's done just fine. He probably won't ever play 80 games in a season but it's unlikely that his career will be cut substantially short by them.

In the end, I think both teams are better off with the guy they have. Chicago needs a centerpiece to build around going forward, and they need that guy to be on the floor for 70+ games a season and 35+ minutes a game. Portland needs a dominant talent to make them contenders, but they can get to the playoffs with him missing 25 games a season.

I dont care what he can do in 36 minutes. The fact is if he cant stay out on the floor he cant put up those numbers. Not to say rose wont get hurt either but so far, He has showed he can play.

Ansy
11-21-2008, 12:15 AM
I dont care what he can do in 36 minutes. The fact is if he cant stay out on the floor he cant put up those numbers. Not to say rose wont get hurt either but so far, He has showed he can play.

Hey, I didn't say anything bad about Rose. I said that I thought both players were the better choice for the team they're on and cited Oden's injuries as the reason why he wasn't as good a choice for the Bulls.

I put up the per-36 numbers only to illustrate how dominant Oden has been in his 20mpg this year. People say he can't score but when he's in there he's scoring very well, despite regularly drawing double teams!

I'm willing to forgive most people for not realizing this because most Blazers games have not been on national TV, but Oden is doubled almost every time he catches the ball near the post. If he's bad at scoring, then the coaches going against him have repeatedly and separately made an egregious mistake.

I love Rose and I don't think he's overrated, but I genuinely think that Oden is vastly underrated right now (I saw a guy in a thread about busts actually call Oden one already, which is beyond ludacris).

rosesbulls
11-21-2008, 01:23 AM
Tell me how great Thabo, Tyrus and Joakim are going to be.



So one dunk impresses you? And you weren't impressed by Oden dominating future NBA players in Al Horford and Joakim Noah?

What does Thomas who was in a weak draft class, Noah who hairdo was already touching the ceiling when he was drafted, and Sefolosha have to do with Rose. You either havnt seen him play, Just saw the Portland game, or are just a hater, Oden has been good when he is on the floor but Rose has been great. Oden has had injury problems from College and pros if he can stay on the court he can be good but Rose will be better


Dominating. Do you have a short memory i believe Florida won that game and Horford was the player of the game.

SteveNash
11-21-2008, 04:17 AM
What does Thomas who was in a weak draft class, Noah who hairdo was already touching the ceiling when he was drafted, and Sefolosha have to do with Rose. You either havnt seen him play, Just saw the Portland game, or are just a hater, Oden has been good when he is on the floor but Rose has been great. Oden has had injury problems from College and pros if he can stay on the court he can be good but Rose will be better

Dominating. Do you have a short memory i believe Florida won that game and Horford was the player of the game.

Thomas was in a weak draft class? LaMarcus Aldridge was drafted the same year as TT. Oh.........

His avatar has those 3 players, he's a Bulls fan, most people overrate their players for whatever reason which is why I brought up.

Now about that championship game:

Oden 25/12/4 on 10-15.

Noah 8/3/0 on 1-3

Horford 18/12/2 on 6-15

Keep in mind that Oden had to be doubled most of the time. That Oden shut down the lane. And the fact that it was Floridas outside shooting that won the game.

Compare that to Rose who was scared to play in a big game and decided to give the ball up to CDR in the clutch.

As I said, I'm sure Rose's stats will look great like say a Stephon Marbury. A Damon Stoudemire. Or maybe the next Stevie Franchise. The point is that Rose's rookie year isn't the greatest rookie performance ever and that Greg Oden should be better than him.

JordansBulls
11-21-2008, 09:24 AM
What does Thomas who was in a weak draft class, Noah who hairdo was already touching the ceiling when he was drafted, and Sefolosha have to do with Rose. You either havnt seen him play, Just saw the Portland game, or are just a hater, Oden has been good when he is on the floor but Rose has been great. Oden has had injury problems from College and pros if he can stay on the court he can be good but Rose will be better


Dominating. Do you have a short memory i believe Florida won that game and Horford was the player of the game.

Roy, Aldridge and Rudy Gay is a weak draft class?
:confused::confused:

Lakers4ItAll
11-21-2008, 01:53 PM
Rose for both

ATX
11-21-2008, 02:29 PM
Derrick Rose

Short and long run

valade16
11-22-2008, 05:17 AM
Oden in the long run for sure... Just look at the great big men of our generation, most are sporting Rings and the great Guards who are usually have one of said big men to thank for that.

Where are Nash and Kidds rings?...

Blue Tiger
11-22-2008, 05:22 AM
I say Derrick because we all know that Greg is injury prone and won't last that long.

Sport
11-22-2008, 05:53 AM
Greg Oden= Michael Olawakandi

He'll hang around the league, but he will be a non-factor.

I wasnt soldon Rose coming out of college, but I am slowly changing my mind.

Rhino
11-22-2008, 07:11 AM
Oden in the long run if he can stay healthy which I believe he will. Lakers better beware the only way your going to keep pace with this young Blazer squad is to buy yourself another Kobe.

Tblaze
11-22-2008, 07:46 AM
I don't see the Paul/Williams comparison to Derrick Rose at all, he's clearly the next Dwade. Because his game is mostly based on his athletecism. Now I've been quite impressed with Oden so far this season, he looked good out there. I like it how they're not giving him full starter minutes yet, and the one game they did he put up 22 and 10. Besides he's on a team where he's the 3rd scoring option. Rose is probably the best player on his team already, but that says more about the bulls then about himself. I think they'll both do quite ok, but I have my money on Oden.

_Supreme_
11-22-2008, 08:10 AM
I don't see the Paul/Williams comparison to Derrick Rose at all, he's clearly the next Dwade

I see Rose more as an Allen Iverson at best (I wouldn't go as far as a previous poster to call him Marbury, Stevie Franchise just yet :D), not a Dwyane Wade.

Wade would seem to be the obvious comparison, but there is a big difference in the character and on-court mentality of the players.

That same mentality is also what makes him completely different from true point guards like Paul and Dwill. He isn't the same type of player at all.

Rose is not (supposed to be) a shooting guard like Wade but a playmaking point guard. Wade is a shooting guard with point guard skills, while for Rose it is the other way around. That doesn't seem to be a big deal, but it actually could be a very big deal in the future.

Right now what I've seen indicates Rose likes to shoot the ball a lot more than he likes to pass it. He is extremely trigger happy. The fact that he still gets/got the assists he did is easily explained by the lack of any teammates who could get the assists otherwise. Hinrich is injured and the rest of the Bulls like to pass even less. So someone will have to get the assists.

I think Rose will be one of those players who really wants to be "the man" and will act like it on the court (and probably eventually off the court too). Wade has never been like that, so Imo there is a distinct difference.

Of course AI is a great player too, so comparing Rose to AI (but without the real 3pt range) doesn't have to be negative, but I do think it will be the best one as time goes by.

Draco
11-22-2008, 08:13 AM
I see Rose more as an Allen Iverson, not a Dwyane Wade.

Wade would seem to be the obvious comparison, but there is a big difference in the character and on-court mentality of the players.

That same mentality is also what makes him completely different from true point guards like Paul and Dwill. He isn't the same type of player at all.

Rose is not (supposed to be) a shooting guard like Wade but a playmaking point guard. Wade is a shooting guard with point guard skills, while for Rose it is the other way around. That doesn't seem to be a big deal, but it actually could be a very big deal in the future.

Right now what I've seen indicates Rose likes to shoot the ball a lot more than he likes to pass it. He is extremely trigger happy. The fact that he still gets/got the assists he did is easily explained by the lack of any teammates who could get the assists otherwise. Hinrich is injured and the rest of the Bulls like to pass even less. So someone will have to get the assists.

I think Rose will be one of those players who really wants to be "the man" and will act like it on the court (and probably eventually off the court too). Wade has never been like that, so Imo there is a distinct difference.

Of course AI is a great player too, so comparing Rose to AI (but without the real 3pt range) doesn't have to be negative, but I do think it will be the best one as time goes by.

Sorry Supreme, but that is the most ******** analysis of Rose or the Bull's I've come across on PSD. And I've seen some doozies ;) lol

_Supreme_
11-22-2008, 08:21 AM
Sorry Supreme, but that is the most ******** analysis of Rose or the Bull's I've come across on PSD. And I've seen some doozies ;) lol


Usually the way to go when you don't agree with something is saying how you do think it is, not just say it is ******** or wrong :rolleyes:

I'm sorry but the Bulls games I watched (about 5 or 6) showed Rose is playing like a trigger happy shooting guard rather than a point guard. His assist stats are padded only because of the fact that he is the only guard who still passes the ball at all, which isn't that odd since the other guards are Ben Gordon and Larry Hughes....

Draco
11-22-2008, 08:53 AM
Usually the way to go when you don't agree with something is saying how you do think it is, not just say it is ******** or wrong :rolleyes:

Usually but in this case it's all that's needed.



I'm sorry but the Bulls games I watched (about 5 or 6) showed Rose is playing like a trigger happy shooting guard rather than a point guard. His assist stats are padded only because of the fact that he is the only guard who still passes the ball at all, which isn't that odd since the other guards are Ben Gordon and Larry Hughes....

Trigger happy and padded assists are rather colored descriptions that I think reflect your perspective and only your perspective. No professional writers agree with you.

You have a similarly crappy post in the Heat forum here:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7419795&postcount=40

You're wrong on just about every point you make.

Not many people would agree that the hardest position for an NBA rookie is SF.

Whatever faults Beasley has are minimized and whatever faults you perceive Rose to have are magnified. You already have Rose pegged to be an "Iverson clone" and fault him for being "trigger happy" when he should be playmaking yet you excuse Beasley's comparitively poor showing by saying that "Winning rookie of the year or not isn't relevant for the player he will be in the future."

Most of the rest is just nonsense.. Roses stats are padded because no one on the Bulls can pass? Ok buddy, glad you think so. The reality is two-part. The Bulls don't have a low post presence, don't get easy buckets and rely on jump shots. Jump shots being lower percentage than under the bucket baskets mean less assists. Also, the Bulls complementary players are forced into roles that just don't suit their abilities. BG forces too many shots against taller guards because the Bulls need offense. Roses emerging offensive talent is kind of replacing the need for BG to force bad shots. Does that mean that Rose is "trigger happy". No, it means that the Bulls need Rose to score to win games other wise they have little to no offense.

While the entirety of both your posts are utter crap. This part was particularly silly.

Rose is not (supposed to be) a shooting guard like Wade but a playmaking point guard. Wade is a shooting guard with point guard skills, while for Rose it is the other way around. That doesn't seem to be a big deal, but it actually could be a very big deal in the future.

Edit:
I can't pass up quoting this gem:

The NBA tends to reward those types of players though, and just being on one of the big market franchises gets him halfway there too.
It's a guarantee that in case Rose and Mayo would finish dead even in reality Rose would still win based on him playing for the Bulls and earning the NBA more $.

Right.. So according to you it doesn't matter what the "trigger happy, Iverson close" does.. the reason why he might win the ROY is because the NBA will fix it. Heh.. and you really wanted me to explain why your post is ********?

Tblaze
11-22-2008, 09:30 AM
when comparing Rose to Wade I ment playstyle, not quality. And who says Rose won't be a 2 guard for most of his career? He hasn't played a full season yet. He has the capabilities to do so.

JordansBulls
11-22-2008, 10:43 AM
when comparing Rose to Wade I ment playstyle, not quality. And who says Rose won't be a 2 guard for most of his career? He hasn't played a full season yet. He has the capabilities to do so.

I think he is better at the point.

The Prodigy
11-22-2008, 11:22 AM
Rose is already a star. by the end of the year hell be around 20 and 8. thats almost as good as paul now and basically the same as deron tho hes not deron yet

Rose is already in the Running for MVP on Nba.com, He isnt top 10 but his named is metioned underneath so thats already an acommplishment. I also thin Rose has the possibility to make allstar this year. There really aint that many good pgs beside harris, calderon, and iverson will play sg and maybe u can consider tj ford

dre1990
11-22-2008, 11:29 AM
Derrick Rose in the "short run", and "long run