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penuch
11-18-2008, 03:03 PM
ESPN NEWS just announced it. Pedroia MVP (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081118&content_id=3683215&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos)!!!!!!!!!

He received 16 of the 28 1st place votes.


Congrats to Pedroia on a great season!!!!

METS4LIFE1988
11-18-2008, 03:04 PM
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q318/YANUKAWHYTEBOY/eB9oMbn9.jpg


BOSTON -- Just call him Mr. November. Or better yet, refer to Dustin Pedroia as the Most Valuable Player of the American League.

The second baseman of the Boston Red Sox continued his rapid burst into the national spotlight on Tuesday, when he was recognized with that impressive honor.

Though most pundits expected the race for MVP to be agonizingly close, Pedroia won in comfortable fashion, outdistancing a solid field that included, among others, Red Sox first baseman Kevin Youkilis, Twins first baseman Justin Morneau, Rangers outfielder Josh Hamilton and Angels closer Francisco Rodriguez.

Following a 2007 season in which Pedroia helped fuel the Red Sox to a World Series championship and won the American League Rookie of the Year Award, the right-handed hitting machine staged quite an encore.

Pedroia joins Cal Ripken Jr. and Ryan Howard as the only players to win Rookie of the Year and MVP in consecutive years.

For his performance in 2008, Pedroia received a Gold Glove Award, a spot on the American League's Silver Slugger team and now the MVP.

By prevailing in the Baseball Writers' Association of America voting, Pedroia became the first Red Sox player to cart home the coveted MVP Award since Mo Vaughn in 1995. But unlike Vaughn, one of the most physically imposing figures in club history, Pedroia will go down as one of the slightest.

Officially listed at 5-foot-9 in the Boston media guide, Pedroia is probably two or three inches shorter than that.

After a grand slam at Yankee Stadium on Aug. 27, a revved-up Pedroia informed his teammates that he was "the strongest 165-pound man in baseball."

It was that type of infectious enthusiasm that earned Pedroia the rare ability to be considered a team leader at the age of 25.

But as much as Pedroia said in the clubhouse and dugout, his bat spoke the loudest.

With 213 hits, Pedroia tied Ichiro Suzuki for the Major League lead. His 54 doubles led the Majors. He led the AL in runs (118) and multihit games (61).

Backed by a .326 average, Pedroia lost the batting title by just four points to Minnesota catcher Joe Mauer. Pedroia finished fourth in total bases (322) and seventh in extra-base hits (73).

An elite tablesetter, Pedroia also chipped in with power (17 homers, 83 RBIs) and speed (20 stolen bases).

From a team standpoint, Pedroia and the Red Sox fell just one win shy of getting back to the World Series after a heartbreaking 3-1 loss to the Rays in Game 7 of the AL Championship Series.

Considering the obstacles the Red Sox faced (David Ortiz missed seven weeks with a left wrist injury, Mike Lowell and J.D. Drew missed considerable time, Jason Varitek had a sharp decline at the plate), it's doubtful they could have gotten to the postseason without the performances of Pedroia and Youkilis.

Before Pedroia's final red-hot surge of late August and early September, Youkilis was the Boston player getting a lot of mention in MVP discussions.

And the first baseman, who also played third base when Lowell was injured, had a big year in his own right. Youkilis established career highs in batting average (.312), home runs (29), RBIs (115) and slugging percentage (.569).

As for Pedroia, he became the fifth second baseman in Major League history to have 200 hits, 50 doubles, 100 runs and 15 homers in the same season, joining Charlie Gehringer (1936), Craig Biggio (1998), Jose Vidro (2000) and Alfonso Soriano (2002).

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081118&content_id=3683215&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

ritz
11-18-2008, 03:04 PM
Awesome

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 03:04 PM
what a joke

McJoe
11-18-2008, 03:04 PM
:pity: Pedroia didnt deserve this...hes not the MVP of the Red Sox numbers wise

King Henrik
11-18-2008, 03:07 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:07 PM
this is probably the biggest joke of an MVP award since ...god, I don't even know. Larkin in 1995? Baseball writers are huge failures. This is unbelievable.

Brooke
11-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Very well deserved. He was big for the Red Sox down the stretch

tomno00
11-18-2008, 03:08 PM
wow what joke.... i guess playing in boston has its privledges

GrkGawdofWalkz
11-18-2008, 03:08 PM
:pity: Pedroia didnt deserve this...hes not the MVP of the Red Sox numbers wise

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: WOOHOO!!!!! Either Youkilis or Dusty winning makes my day. He may not have all the numbers as Joe will argue for all time, but hell if you can tell me he's not valuable.

Tkais9009
11-18-2008, 03:10 PM
congrats i guess

gocubs2118
11-18-2008, 03:10 PM
Wow, too bad Quentin had to injure himself. He would have been the MVP hands down.

bagwell368
11-18-2008, 03:10 PM
about 9 guys had an argument to be considered, but the right guy got it. betcha he never wins another.

Testaverde16
11-18-2008, 03:11 PM
disappointing but I saw it coming.

He didn't really have any competition.

The Intimidator
11-18-2008, 03:11 PM
The right man for the award. no one deserved it more than him, and if anyone doubts that, just look at the numbers.

Max Power
11-18-2008, 03:13 PM
Scraptacular

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:13 PM
Screw all of you doubters. Pedroia was the best player in the AL this year, and it showed. He can do it all, so suck on it.

cocky ****ing boston.... this **** makes me sick.

acecrusher06
11-18-2008, 03:13 PM
congrats. he definitely was the best player in the league this year. giving the award to mourneau would of been a travesty simply because mourneau had more rbis. it's easily overlooked by mourneau is a clean-up hitter with more rbi opportunities than dustin. as hitter for his position, mourneau is very average. while pedroia's production at second base is above average. not to mention good leadership and consistency throughout the year.

nygiants242
11-18-2008, 03:14 PM
Pedroia deserved this woooo!!

Max Power
11-18-2008, 03:15 PM
this is probably the biggest joke of an MVP award since ...god, I don't even know. Larkin in 1995? Baseball writers are huge failures. This is unbelievable.

1995 when Mo Vaughn inexpicably got it over Albert Belle

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 03:16 PM
Mauer, Hamilton and A-Rod were all more deserving than Pedroia.

whitesoxfan83
11-18-2008, 03:19 PM
The right man for the award. no one deserved it more than him, and if anyone doubts that, just look at the numbers.


kinda curious what numbers your looking at

AROD

.306/.389/.578/.967

Pedroia

.326/.376/.493/.869

as i said yesterday in the other AL MVP thread. AROD should win it, Pedroia will win it.

there wasnt a better choice but to say pedroia won it because of his numbers is just ********. also had Carlos Quentin stayed healthy hes your MVP, hes the one who was the best player in the AL when he played. All the people in contention for this award got more lucky than anything that Q got hurt and missed all of september (the only month these jerk off writers pay attention too)

Raidaz4Life
11-18-2008, 03:21 PM
glad to hear way to go Pedy!:clap::clap::clap: he was absolutely huge for us going down the stretch

tomno00
11-18-2008, 03:21 PM
i think the writters got tired of giving it to arod

nygiants242
11-18-2008, 03:21 PM
Mvp! Mvp! Mvp!

zambo4president
11-18-2008, 03:23 PM
Wow what a joke

MrBloop
11-18-2008, 03:26 PM
Jeter had this same season about 4-5 times already and never got it, what does that say about this AL MVP class of 2008, fckn pathetic.

This further illustrates the Pro Boston disease thats rampant around all the sports writers in and around baseball. The Red Sox Nation conspiracy lives on.

Gimme a break.

GrkGawdofWalkz
11-18-2008, 03:28 PM
As a Redsox fan yes, I'm ecstatic. I don't think he would have won the award if Quentin was healthier. Morneau, Youkilis, Alex Rodriguez were all valid winners as well. I won't say he was the best player in the AL this year, but he was a very good player in baseball. His numbers were great, and it's a shame that you cannot even say congrats instead you say, WOW what a joke. Any team would love to have a player who goes out every day and plays the game right.

torontocubs
11-18-2008, 03:29 PM
********

McJoe
11-18-2008, 03:29 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: WOOHOO!!!!! Either Youkilis or Dusty winning makes my day. He may not have all the numbers as Joe will argue for all time, but hell if you can tell me he's not valuable.

I guess ill post the numbers since he told me too...lol

Kinsler
Pedroia: .326/.376/.493/.869, 17 homers, 83 rbis
Kinsler: .319/.375/.517/.892, 18 homers, 71 rbis
Kinsler is NOT the MVP but he missed all of september and part of august and matched Pedroia in alot of numbers and beat him in the rest.

Youkilis
Pedroia: .326/.376/.493/.869, 17 homers, 83 rbis
Youkilis: .312/.390/.569/.958, 29 homers, 115 rbis
Youkilis beats Pedroia in every important statistic except batting average

Others
Pedroia: .326/.376/.493/.869, 17 homers, 83 rbis
A-rod: .302/.392/.573/.965, 35 homers, 103 rbis
Quentin: .288/.394/.571/.965, 36 homers, 100 rbis
Hamilton: .304/.371/.530/.901, 32 homers, 130 rbis
Cabrera: .292/.349/.537/.887, 37 homers, 127 rbis
There are others like Morneau, Markakis, Huff, Bradley but the point being that they ALL have better numbers than Pedroia

good for Dusty but this is a joke

PHX-SOXFAN
11-18-2008, 03:30 PM
kinda curious what numbers your looking at

AROD

.306/.389/.578/.967

Pedroia

.326/.376/.493/.869

as i said yesterday in the other AL MVP thread. AROD should win it, Pedroia will win it.

there wasnt a better choice but to say pedroia won it because of his numbers is just ********. also had Carlos Quentin stayed healthy hes your MVP, hes the one who was the best player in the AL when he played. All the people in contention for this award got more lucky than anything that Q got hurt and missed all of september (the only month these jerk off writers pay attention too)

the difference is that one of those guys carried his team on his back and willed them to wins and eventually the playoffs while the other wilted in big situations and set a GIDP record for the month of August. That's a huge difference in coming through when you need to.

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:31 PM
As a Redsox fan yes, I'm ecstatic. I don't think he would have won the award if Quentin was healthier. Morneau, Youkilis, Alex Rodriguez were all valid winners as well. I won't say he was the best player in the AL this year, but he was a very good player in baseball. His numbers were great, and it's a shame that you cannot even say congrats instead you say, WOW what a joke. Any team would love to have a player who goes out every day and plays the game right.
plays the game right by being a cocky douche? come on. there are hundreds of players who play the game right. i'm not going to say congrats to a guy who barely deserved top 5 consideration and who has been overhyped all year.

acecrusher06
11-18-2008, 03:34 PM
not a joke,well-deserved!

King Henrik
11-18-2008, 03:36 PM
wow lot of Boston haters out here, that doesnt mean you have to hate on Pedroia. The man took a team that lost the best hitter in baseball, had a banged up Ortiz, and no Lowell, and took that team to game 7 of the ALCS. if thats not MVP then i dont know what is. yeah the competition was weak and other years he may not have won it, but that doesnt take away from his immense value.

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 03:36 PM
ARod should have won this...

Hell Kinsler had a better year.

JDIsMyGod23
11-18-2008, 03:38 PM
Congrats on his first, and for sure his last MVP award.

Max Power
11-18-2008, 03:40 PM
wow lot of Boston haters out here, that doesnt mean you have to hate on Pedroia. The man took a team that lost the best hitter in baseball, had a banged up Ortiz, and no Lowell, and took that team to game 7 of the ALCS. if thats not MVP then i dont know what is. yeah the competition was weak and other years he may not have won it, but that doesnt take away from his immense value.


They had Pujols and "lost" him? When? How?

Oh, you mean Manny. They didn't lose him, they gave him away, little bit of a difference. And then proceeded to rip him and blame him for the problems of the world. Every chance they get.

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:40 PM
I never thought of Pedroia as an MVP. He's not the power hitter type that usually wins it but, he did have a good season with the bat (.326 avg, lead the league in doubles, runs and hits) and was very good defensively too.
don't use runs. he doesn't have any control over those besides getting on base. and his on base percentage wasn't that good.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:41 PM
What a J O K E

acecrusher06
11-18-2008, 03:41 PM
pedy's value is also measured on impact on the team. some of the players named were just complimentary pieces. pedroia carried the team throughout the season.

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:41 PM
wow lot of Boston haters out here, that doesnt mean you have to hate on Pedroia. The man took a team that lost the best hitter in baseball, had a banged up Ortiz, and no Lowell, and took that team to game 7 of the ALCS. if thats not MVP then i dont know what is. yeah the competition was weak and other years he may not have won it, but that doesnt take away from his immense value.

they lost manny and replaced him with jason bay, who was just as productive as manny had been/would have been unhappy. lateral move. big deal.

jaysfan4ever
11-18-2008, 03:41 PM
Wow, too bad Quentin had to injure himself. He would have been the MVP hands down.

I totally agree... and out of NOWHERE too.

YankeeFan28
11-18-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't think this should come as a shock. He had a good year, definitely top 5 in the AL IMO. Plus he had the best numbers of any players who's team made it to the playoffs.

Saint Brian
11-18-2008, 03:42 PM
First, the award is for the regular season so what Pedroia did in the post season is irrelevant. The ballots have to be in before the post season begins.

All that said, Josh Hamilton's numbers are much better than Pedroia's. The fact that Hamilton didn't win it is sad. Heck, Youklis' was the offensive leader of that team. Without Pedroia, do the Sox make the playoffs? Probably not. Without Youklis, do the Red Sox make the playoffs? Nope.

Josh Hamilton was more valuable to the Rangers than Pedroia was to the Red Sox.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:43 PM
the difference is that one of those guys carried his team on his back and willed them to wins and eventually the playoffs while the other wilted in big situations and set a GIDP record for the month of August. That's a huge difference in coming through when you need to.

Yes and his name was not Pedroia It was Kevin Youkilis

King Henrik
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
ARod should have won this...

Hell Kinsler had a better year.

hell maybe if this was Fantasy MVP except its not and Kinsler and Arod both failed to lead their teams to the playoffs so no, they should not have won it

bosox3431
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
kinda curious what numbers your looking at

AROD

.306/.389/.578/.967

Pedroia

.326/.376/.493/.869

as i said yesterday in the other AL MVP thread. AROD should win it, Pedroia will win it.

there wasnt a better choice but to say pedroia won it because of his numbers is just ********. also had Carlos Quentin stayed healthy hes your MVP, hes the one who was the best player in the AL when he played. All the people in contention for this award got more lucky than anything that Q got hurt and missed all of september (the only month these jerk off writers pay attention too)

You do realize that the MVP isnt supposed to be based on stats right? Its not the best player in the league award. Its supposed to be given to the player most valuble to his team, and if Quentin missed a whole month and his team still made the playoffs, how exactly is he the most valuable?

PHX-SOXFAN
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
Yes and his name was not Pedroia It was Kevin Youkilis

the youk v. pedroia discussion is legitimate. the pedroia v. a-rod is laughable considering the GIDP numbers from August alone.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
I don't think this should come as a shock. He had a good year, definitely top 5 in the AL IMO. Plus he had the best numbers of any players who's team made it to the playoffs.

No Youkilis did

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:47 PM
hell maybe if this was Fantasy MVP except its not and Kinsler and Arod both failed to lead their teams to the playoffs so no, they should not have won it

Tell that to Pujols

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:47 PM
You do realize that the MVP isnt supposed to be based on stats right? Its not the best player in the league award. Its supposed to be given to the player most valuble to his team, and if Quentin missed a whole month and his team still made the playoffs, how exactly is he the most valuable?

because the White Sox are nowhere NEAR a playoff team without Quentin. Just because he missed the last month doesn't mean he shouldn't be recognized. If it was the first month he missed instead of the last he probably would have won it, but baseball writers are ********. The wins in April count just as much as the wins in September. And if Pedroia was hot to start the year and then you replaced his Aug/Sept with his April/May, is he winning it? No. That's why this is stupid.

unwantedplayer
11-18-2008, 03:48 PM
Wow i love how all the people who are saying pedy isnt great. If you have ever watched a red sox game, youll understand. If not, stop talking, your just a liar.

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:48 PM
the youk v. pedroia discussion is legitimate. the pedroia v. a-rod is laughable considering the GIDP numbers from August alone.
oh please. don't think you can take one obscure stat in one month and pass it off and definitive evidence. pedroia had a .669 OPS in may, can I use that as definitive evidence?

weebs
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
Wow i love how all the people who are saying pedy isnt great. If you have ever watched a red sox game, youll understand. If not, stop talking, your just a liar.

he's not great. he's very good. this is the MVP award though.

bomber0104
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
wow what a joke.

They should have given the Cy young to Beckett while they're at it.

He is taking over for Jeter as the most overrated player. But again, Jeter never won an MVP

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 03:50 PM
i have to say watching every sox game, that pedroia carried us, youk helped out alot, but pedroia was our mvp, all you haters just look at stats

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:51 PM
wow what a joke.

They should have given the Cy young to Beckett while they're at it.

I think Wakefield has that one hands down

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 03:51 PM
Tell that to Pujols

Pujols has said it himself that the mvp is a person that took their team to the playoffs

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 03:52 PM
hell maybe if this was Fantasy MVP except its not and Kinsler and Arod both failed to lead their teams to the playoffs so no, they should not have won it

I know it is ARod's and Kinslers fault they couldn't pitch and get their teams into the playoffs. Damn Kinsler should be on that mound leading his team to the playoffs.

Red_Sox_89
11-18-2008, 03:53 PM
:pity: Pedroia didnt deserve this...hes not the MVP of the Red Sox numbers wise

You guys are ridiculous. Just spell out MVP for me, would ya. Well, I'll do it. Most VALUABLE player, not the most successful or the best hitter... it's the most VALUABLE. And I don't know if you didn't watch Pedroia during the playoffs, but he was the only Sox player that hit well throughout the playoffs. During the regular season, he had clutch hits when the Sox needed him most, as well as during the post season. That's what the MLB writers look for. So no, they're not a joke, they analyze more aspects of the game than just stats.

Pedroia earned it, hands down, good job Pedroia!

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 03:53 PM
the youk v. pedroia discussion is legitimate. the pedroia v. a-rod is laughable considering the GIDP numbers from August alone.

The reason Arod shouldnt win MVP is because he hit into a bunch of double plays, despite that he has much much better numbers? Seriously?

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:53 PM
i have to say watching every sox game, that pedroia carried us, youk helped out alot, but pedroia was our mvp, all you haters just look at stats

I did, Every stat favors Youkilis, except batting average

And if you really watched every game you'd know that Youk plays exceptional defense @ 3rd and 1st while pedroia plays the easiest position IMO in 2nd base

You cant possibly be serious, Youk carried you not Pedroia, he had a good season,Not MVP worthy, this is the product of dumb writers and overhype by ESPN

hawk88
11-18-2008, 03:55 PM
You do realize that the MVP isnt supposed to be based on stats right? Its not the best player in the league award. Its supposed to be given to the player most valuble to his team, and if Quentin missed a whole month and his team still made the playoffs, how exactly is he the most valuable?

i dont think ur right here. its called the American League MVP, the award title clearly states this, it has nothing to do with value to your team, its about overall talent, which includes hitting and fielding stats. It makes no difference if you make the playoffs, win the world series, or finish last, the award is for the player, not the team around him.

congrats to dustin, but hes not the most valuable in the AL.

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 03:55 PM
You guys are ridiculous. Just spell out MVP for me, would ya. Well, I'll do it. Most VALUABLE player, not the most successful or the best hitter... it's the most VALUABLE. And I don't know if you didn't watch Pedroia during the playoffs, but he was the only Sox player that hit well throughout the playoffs. During the regular season, he had clutch hits when the Sox needed him most, as well as during the post season. That's what the MLB writers look for. So no, they're not a joke, they analyze more aspects of the game than just stats.

Pedroia earned it, hands down, good job Pedroia!

I guess Howard should have won it over Pujols then. :rolleyes:

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:55 PM
Pujols has said it himself that the mvp is a person that took their team to the playoffs

His team finished 4th in his division and he still won it this year

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 03:56 PM
your just looking at stats, pedroia carried us

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:57 PM
I cant believe red sox fans are trying to make a case for Pedroia, even when he won it unfairly over another member of their team

Tell me one thing Red Sox fans, If you had to trade one of the 2

Who would you trade right now Pedroia or Youk?

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 03:57 PM
your just looking at stats, pedroia carried us

:laugh:

This is going on my SIG

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 03:57 PM
your just looking at stats, pedroia carried us

Prove it.

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 03:58 PM
His team finished 4th in his division and he still won it this year

back when ryan howard won it, pujols said that the mvp is a person that carried their team to the playoffs and that howard didn't deserve it, do i have to look for a link?

Red_Sox_89
11-18-2008, 03:58 PM
I guess Howard should have won it over Pujols then. :rolleyes:

Um, yeah, those strikeouts put Howard above Pujols

Red_Sox_89
11-18-2008, 03:59 PM
I cant believe red sox fans are trying to make a case for Pedroia, even when he won it unfairly over another member of their team

Tell me one thing Red Sox fans, If you had to trade one of the 2

Who would you trade right now Pedroia or Youk?

I'm fine with it, although I'd rather Youk have won it. But people saying he has NO reason to win it is absurd.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:00 PM
back when ryan howard won it, pujols said that the mvp is a person that carried their team to the playoffs and that howard didn't deserve it, do i have to look for a link?

No you dont, I know thats what he said but it doesnt ****ing matter MVP is the b est player in the league OVERALL doesnt matter if you m ake the playoffs or not and bottom line is PEDROIA wasnt the best player in the AL not even on his ****ing team

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:00 PM
I'm fine with it, although I'd rather Youk have won it. But people saying he has NO reason to win it is absurd.

You didnt answer my question

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 04:02 PM
Um, yeah, those strikeouts put Howard above Pujols

Strikeouts? That it?

You forgot Pujols lead Howard in every meaningful stat out there.

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:03 PM
the thing that nobody seems to understand is that the first 2 months of games matter just as much as the past two. pedroia was not good those first 2 months.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:03 PM
St Louis couldve finished last in the NL and if Pujols didnt win the MVP it wouldve been wrong
He truly was the best in the NL No argument

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:03 PM
the thing that nobody seems to understand is that the first 2 months of games matter just as much as the past two. pedroia was not good those first 2 months.

Actually he wasnt good until after the allstar break

R. Johnson#3
11-18-2008, 04:04 PM
Wow

Matchstckman
11-18-2008, 04:04 PM
I really wish they'd do away with this MVP ******** and simply elect the BEST player. Because it gives Red Sox fan a reason (albeit a stupid one) to defend this MVP choice.

TheKid
11-18-2008, 04:04 PM
Congrats to Pedey!

For all those who are thinking he's not deserving, take a look at his actual value to the team. He's the spark plug. When they needed someone to make a big play defensively, who stepped up? Pedroia won the gold glove with sensational defense. When they needed someone to fill the 4 hole behind papi, who stepped up? Pedroia stepped into the 4 spot down the stretch and in the three games he was there once provided 5 rbis, and another time was 4-4.
Ask Jose Guillen about Dustin.... He intentionally walked Pedroia...... because he would rather his hitter face david ortiz. that's scary.

You guys are getting too worked up over the numbers. You've been cursed with the A-rod's, the Howards, the Pujols'. When the Red Sox needed someone to step up. Pedroia was the man doing it all season long. Offensively, defensively, it didn't matter, he did it all. He meant more to this team then you are giving him credit for and the writers saw that. For the first time, they voted in the most valuable PLAYER, not the most valuable HITTER.

Congrats to Pedroia, he deserved this.

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:07 PM
Congrats to Pedey!

For all those who are thinking he's not deserving, take a look at his actual value to the team. He's the spark plug. When they needed someone to make a big play defensively, who stepped up? Pedroia won the gold glove with sensational defense. When they needed someone to fill the 4 hole behind papi, who stepped up? Pedroia stepped into the 4 spot down the stretch and in the three games he was there once provided 5 rbis, and another time was 4-4.
Ask Jose Guillen about Dustin.... He intentionally walked Pedroia...... because he would rather his hitter face david ortiz. that's scary.

You guys are getting too worked up over the numbers. You've been cursed with the A-rod's, the Howards, the Pujols'. When the Red Sox needed someone to step up. Pedroia was the man doing it all season long. Offensively, defensively, it didn't matter, he did it all. He meant more to this team then you are giving him credit for and the writers saw that. For the first time, they voted in the most valuable PLAYER, not the most valuable HITTER.

Congrats to Pedroia, he deserved this.

Pedrioa won the gold glove because he plays for a winning team in Boston. Not because he was the best defensive 2nd baseman. He wasn't.

He was great down the stretch, but where was he in those equally important games the first several months?

Jose Guillen plays for the Royals in the outfield.

He didn't do it all season long. He did it in the 2nd half.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:07 PM
Congrats to Pedey!

For all those who are thinking he's not deserving, take a look at his actual value to the team. He's the spark plug. When they needed someone to make a big play defensively, who stepped up? Pedroia won the gold glove with sensational defense. When they needed someone to fill the 4 hole behind papi, who stepped up? Pedroia stepped into the 4 spot down the stretch and in the three games he was there once provided 5 rbis, and another time was 4-4.
Ask Jose Guillen about Dustin.... He intentionally walked Pedroia...... because he would rather his hitter face david ortiz. that's scary.

You guys are getting too worked up over the numbers. You've been cursed with the A-rod's, the Howards, the Pujols'. When the Red Sox needed someone to step up. Pedroia was the man doing it all season long. Offensively, defensively, it didn't matter, he did it all. He meant more to this team then you are giving him credit for and the writers saw that. For the first time, they voted in the most valuable PLAYER, not the most valuable HITTER.

Congrats to Pedroia, he deserved this.

I think you mean Ozzie

and as far as the rest of your post goes....NO!

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:07 PM
No you dont, I know thats what he said but it doesnt ****ing matter MVP is the b est player in the league OVERALL doesnt matter if you m ake the playoffs or not and bottom line is PEDROIA wasnt the best player in the AL not even on his ****ing team

so MVP stands for Best Overall in the League?

CityofChamps924
11-18-2008, 04:07 PM
I cant believe red sox fans are trying to make a case for Pedroia, even when he won it unfairly over another member of their team

Tell me one thing Red Sox fans, If you had to trade one of the 2

Who would you trade right now Pedroia or Youk?

If I had to chose one, I would rather trade Youk. And then sign Teixerra :D. But seriously, both of these candidates had legitimate cases. In most years, neither of these two get serious consideration. But this year, there were a lot of good but not great seasons. So, the writers gave it to a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger winning 2nd baseman who was tied for the ML lead in hits, led the league in doubles, and led his team to the playoffs. We can argue over whether Pedroia was the MOST deserving, but he was absolutely one of the possible deserving candidates, and to say otherwise is ridiculous.

Matchstckman
11-18-2008, 04:08 PM
Congrats to Pedey!

For all those who are thinking he's not deserving, take a look at his actual value to the team. He's the spark plug. When they needed someone to make a big play defensively, who stepped up? Pedroia won the gold glove with sensational defense. When they needed someone to fill the 4 hole behind papi, who stepped up? Pedroia stepped into the 4 spot down the stretch and in the three games he was there once provided 5 rbis, and another time was 4-4.
Ask Jose Guillen about Dustin.... He intentionally walked Pedroia...... because he would rather his hitter face david ortiz. that's scary.

You guys are getting too worked up over the numbers. You've been cursed with the A-rod's, the Howards, the Pujols'. When the Red Sox needed someone to step up. Pedroia was the man doing it all season long. Offensively, defensively, it didn't matter, he did it all. He meant more to this team then you are giving him credit for and the writers saw that. For the first time, they voted in the most valuable PLAYER, not the most valuable HITTER.

Congrats to Pedroia, he deserved this.

Thanks. I needed a laugh and all the bolded stuff really did it for me.

hawk88
11-18-2008, 04:08 PM
Congrats to Pedey!

For all those who are thinking he's not deserving, take a look at his actual value to the team. He's the spark plug. When they needed someone to make a big play defensively, who stepped up? Pedroia won the gold glove with sensational defense. When they needed someone to fill the 4 hole behind papi, who stepped up? Pedroia stepped into the 4 spot down the stretch and in the three games he was there once provided 5 rbis, and another time was 4-4.
Ask Jose Guillen about Dustin.... He intentionally walked Pedroia...... because he would rather his hitter face david ortiz. that's scary.
You guys are getting too worked up over the numbers. You've been cursed with the A-rod's, the Howards, the Pujols'. When the Red Sox needed someone to step up. Pedroia was the man doing it all season long. Offensively, defensively, it didn't matter, he did it all. He meant more to this team then you are giving him credit for and the writers saw that. For the first time, they voted in the most valuable PLAYER, not the most valuable HITTER.

Congrats to Pedroia, he deserved this.

wanna talk about scary? how bout when madden walked hamilton with the bases loaded in the 9th inning this year he didnt want hamilton to jack a game winning homer? and u cant say madden is stupid, he helped his team get to the world series.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:08 PM
so MVP stands for Best Overall in the League?

Uh..at least its supposed to

redsox08!
11-18-2008, 04:10 PM
this is weebs

man stfu u dont know what your talking about pedroia is the mvp this guy carried a team without manny, and injured ortiz, and injured lowell. plus mvp dosnt mean best player it means most VALUABLE which means who lifted there team and became a leader. some guys out there might have better numbers but they might have not produced big when it really matters.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:11 PM
If I had to chose one, I would rather trade Youk. And then sign Teixerra :D. But seriously, both of these candidates had legitimate cases. In most years, neither of these two get serious consideration. But this year, there were a lot of good but not great seasons. So, the writers gave it to a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger winning 2nd baseman who was tied for the ML lead in hits, led the league in doubles, and led his team to the playoffs. We can argue over whether Pedroia was the MOST deserving, but he was absolutely one of the possible deserving candidates, and to say otherwise is ridiculous.

Then who plays third base? Lowell with half his back? Good Job :clap:

Possibly deserving candidate, yes, everyone playing is a Possibly deserving candidate

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 04:11 PM
this is weebs

man stfu u dont know what your talking about pedroia is the mvp this guy carried a team without manny, and injured ortiz, and injured lowell. plus mvp dosnt mean best player it means most VALUABLE which means who lifted there team and became a leader. some guys out there might have better numbers but they might have not produced big when it really matters.

Prove it.

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:12 PM
this is weebs

man stfu u dont know what your talking about pedroia is the mvp this guy carried a team without manny, and injured ortiz, and injured lowell. plus mvp dosnt mean best player it means most VALUABLE which means who lifted there team and became a leader. some guys out there might have better numbers but they might have not produced big when it really matters.
when it really matters is all year long. in april. in may. in september. it matters the same every month. how do people not understand this? and stop with this without manny stuff. jason bay was a more than adequete replacement.

kevin youkilis was all of those things.

MeTaL
11-18-2008, 04:12 PM
Congrats I guess... Nice to see Portuguese people succeeding in baseball

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:17 PM
Damnit Victorino was cheated of the MVP he carried the team while the Cardinals finished 4th in their division

Freel for prez
11-18-2008, 04:17 PM
Dont hate the playa hate the game...being small can only help you in baseball...your strike zone is only meatballs

whitesoxfan83
11-18-2008, 04:17 PM
Actually he wasnt good until after the allstar break

actually his tear began on june 8th

from that point on til the end of the season this was his line

.365/.416/.571/.987

which means he just didnt show up in the spring. i dont like this selection at all but i keep hearing pedroia wasnt good until after the break, and this just isnt the case because even from june 8th to july 13th this was his line:

.404/.442/.618/1.060

jaysfan4ever
11-18-2008, 04:21 PM
And although Pedroia was a decent pick, I gotta go with McJoe on this one. Pedroia's on-base pct. wasn't outstanding, as my top five candidates (Quentin, Morneau, Youkilis, A-Rod and Hamilton) all had similar or better OBPs. If you're looking at slugging, there's no way he gets it. Personally I would look at Runs + RBIs as being how valuable a hitter is to the offence, so how does Hamilton's 98R and 130RBI or Morneau's 97R and 129RBI get snubbed? Quentin was on pace for 120R and 124RBI as well, and he would've got my vote if he had stayed healthy. A-Rod would've gotten 122R and 121 RBI. Kinsler would've gotten 137R and 95RBI. Granted a team might have had a great supporting cast, so I'd divide that by a teams total runs, so it measures the pct. of a team's runs that a player contributed to. The results are:

A-Rod: 30.8%
Quentin: 30.1%
Morneau: 27.3%
Kinsler: 25.7%
Hamilton: 25.3%
Youkilis: 24.4%
Pedroia: 23.8%

Granted, A-Rod, Kinsler and Quentin were both injured for a significant portion of the season, so I wouldn't consider them MVPs.

Basically Morneau was in on 3.5 more % of his team's runs than Pedroia, which equals to about 30 runs. Hamilton was in on 1.5% more of his team's runs than Pedroia, which equals to about 13 runs.

My question: does 20SBs and great defence really add up to 30 runs? I personally don't think so. I'm really not sure if it's worth the 13 run-difference between him and Hamilton.

And really, if Morneau didn't drive in the runs for the Twins, who would've? Granted Pedroia was one of the few guys that could get on base for the Red Sox sluggers, so maybe they both filled very large needs. That being said, Morneau was a bit more effective and I would definitely give him the award.

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:21 PM
Uh..at least its supposed to

Well if it was suppose to MLB would have it be changed to BOPITL (best overall player in the league)... I don't think pedroia was the best in the league, but he was the most valuable

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:22 PM
I just remember i traded him in my fantasy league exactly the week before he started owning lol

bosox3431
11-18-2008, 04:23 PM
i dont think ur right here. its called the American League MVP, the award title clearly states this, it has nothing to do with value to your team, its about overall talent, which includes hitting and fielding stats. It makes no difference if you make the playoffs, win the world series, or finish last, the award is for the player, not the team around him.

congrats to dustin, but hes not the most valuable in the AL.

I believe I am


Prior to the 1910 season, Hugh Chalmers of the Chalmers Automobile Company announced a new promotion to capitalize on baseball's burgeoning popularity: he promised a Chalmers Model 30 automobile to the player with the highest batting average in the majors. Sherry Magee led the National League with a .331 average and was out of the running for the car but controversy abounded in the run for the American League batting championship; Ty Cobb and Nap Lajoie entered the final day of the 1910 season, neck-and-neck. The St. Louis Browns, playing Lajoie's Cleveland team, played their infield back, allowing Lajoie to beat out six bunt singles in a doubleheader and win the title. Debate raged over the outcome, including whether this action was sportsmanlike (St. Louis's manager Jack O'Connor was fired for his role in the affair). [1] Chalmers, attempting to stay above the debacle, awarded automobiles to both players.

For 1911, Chalmers decided that batting average was too narrow a focus for an award. He announced the Chalmers Award, which was to be given to the player in each league who "should prove himself as the most important and useful player to his club and to the league at large in point of deportment and value of services rendered." [2] This was the first attempt to recognize a player for overall contributions to his team's success—hence the designation Most Valuable rather than "player of the year", a distinction which remains today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Most_Valuable_Player_Award

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:25 PM
Well if it was suppose to MLB would have it be changed to BOPITL (best overall player in the league)... I don't think pedroia was the best in the league, but he was the most valuable

You My Friend Are BeyonD Ridiculous

AMERICAN LEAGUE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
Not
Player Most Valuable To His Team

And still, My point is Youkilis was more valuable than Pedroia

Red_Sox_89
11-18-2008, 04:25 PM
You didnt answer my question

I'd rather have Youk. The reason I was making an argument for Pedroia is because if Youk had won, people would be saying someone else deserved it. Youk deserved it over Pedroia in my opinion, but these two guys were the top candidates for the MVP.

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:26 PM
This was the first attempt to recognize a player for overall contributions to his team's success—hence the designation Most Valuable rather than "player of the year", a distinction which remains today.

Thank you bosox

MrBloop
11-18-2008, 04:26 PM
Barry Larkin part II but w/e...the fact that we're talking bout says a lil something about its validity.


....thats all I'm sayin, congrats Pedroia, he's a damn good ball player.

Thank god Youk didn't get it.

CityofChamps924
11-18-2008, 04:27 PM
Then who plays third base? Lowell with half his back? Good Job :clap:

Possibly deserving candidate, yes, everyone playing is a Possibly deserving candidate

Ok, first of all, Lowell is fine to play 3rd, but that isn't the point. I gave a stupid answer to your stupid question about who would a Red Sox fan rather trade. Neither are going anywhere. Second, Pedroia was absolutely one of the top candidates for the award. He beat the other competitors in some statistical categories, and was behind in others, we have gone over all of this in this thread multiple times. That's what happens in a year when there is no clear cut winner. Instead of ripping a guy who in his second season was the best at his position and led the league in several categories, you can acknowledge his success and disagree with the choice a little more thoughtfully.

natepro
11-18-2008, 04:28 PM
Ah well. They couldn't get them all right.

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:28 PM
AMERICAN LEAGUE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
Not
Player Most Valuable To His Team

Pedroia was more valuable to his team than any other player in the league

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:30 PM
And although Pedroia was a decent pick, I gotta go with McJoe on this one. Pedroia's on-base pct. wasn't outstanding, as my top five candidates (Quentin, Morneau, Youkilis, A-Rod and Hamilton) all had similar or better OBPs. If you're looking at slugging, there's no way he gets it. Personally I would look at Runs + RBIs as being how valuable a hitter is to the offence, so how does Hamilton's 98R and 130RBI or Morneau's 97R and 129RBI get snubbed? Quentin was on pace for 120R and 124RBI as well, and he would've got my vote if he had stayed healthy. A-Rod would've gotten 122R and 121 RBI. Kinsler would've gotten 137R and 95RBI. Granted a team might have had a great supporting cast, so I'd divide that by a teams total runs, so it measures the pct. of a team's runs that a player contributed to. The results are:

A-Rod: 30.8%
Quentin: 30.1%
Morneau: 27.3%
Kinsler: 25.7%
Hamilton: 25.3%
Youkilis: 24.4%
Pedroia: 23.8%

Granted, A-Rod, Kinsler and Quentin were both injured for a significant portion of the season, so I wouldn't consider them MVPs.

Basically Morneau was in on 3.5 more % of his team's runs than Pedroia, which equals to about 30 runs. Hamilton was in on 1.5% more of his team's runs than Pedroia, which equals to about 13 runs.

My question: does 20SBs and great defence really add up to 30 runs? I personally don't think so. I'm really not sure if it's worth the 13 run-difference between him and Hamilton.

And really, if Morneau didn't drive in the runs for the Twins, who would've? Granted Pedroia was one of the few guys that could get on base for the Red Sox sluggers, so maybe they both filled very large needs. That being said, Morneau was a bit more effective and I would definitely give him the award.

Why on earth would you use two team-dependent stats to determine individual worth? A player can't do anything but get on base, after that it's up to the hitters after him to determine whether he scores or not. So why not use on base percentage? Conversely, a batter can't effect if there's anybody on base in front of him, so why use RBIs? This is why we use stats like OPS instead.

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:30 PM
I was just pointing that out. I don't think most writers are that involved in sabermetrics and look more at the raw stats than anything.

on base percentage isn't sabermetrics?

hoggin88
11-18-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm not a Pedroia hater, but I am kind of surprised that so many people say he was hands down the MVP. The two major things that stick out to me are the fact that his slugging was not all that spectacular for an MVP, and his OBP wasn't out of this world either.

Is it his defense that has everyone saying he was definitely the MVP or what? I am more just confused than anything by all the support. And even if you bring into question his team's success, Youk had a better season.

Can someone just clarify why so many are so PedroiaMVP crazy? I mean I know he is a great player, but how is he THAT great.

Living Legend
11-18-2008, 04:33 PM
His numbers are inflated because he hits in front of Papi

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 04:33 PM
Pedroia was more valuable to his team than any other player in the league

Pujols.

PHX-SOXFAN
11-18-2008, 04:34 PM
oh please. don't think you can take one obscure stat in one month and pass it off and definitive evidence. pedroia had a .669 OPS in may, can I use that as definitive evidence?


use whatever you want, but typically those that push or defend a-rod end up quoting april and may stats:o

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:35 PM
I'd rather have Youk. The reason I was making an argument for Pedroia is because if Youk had won, people would be saying someone else deserved it. Youk deserved it over Pedroia in my opinion, but these two guys were the top candidates for the MVP.

theres always people who disagree, but I bet if Youk won it, a lot less people would disagree with it. I know i wouldnt...

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293791&page=2


Pedroia was more valuable to his team than any other player in the league

No No, Youkilis was

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:36 PM
Pujols.

league meaning AL

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:37 PM
Pujols.

AL :rolleyes:

Matchstckman
11-18-2008, 04:38 PM
Pedroia was more valuable to his team than any other player in the league

For the love of God, say something you can at least prove.

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 04:39 PM
the youk v. pedroia discussion is legitimate. the pedroia v. a-rod is laughable considering the GIDP numbers from August alone.

It is laughable because A-Rod is ten times better than Pedroia.

jaysfan4ever
11-18-2008, 04:39 PM
this is weebs

man stfu u dont know what your talking about pedroia is the mvp this guy carried a team without manny, and injured ortiz, and injured lowell. plus mvp dosnt mean best player it means most VALUABLE which means who lifted there team and became a leader. some guys out there might have better numbers but they might have not produced big when it really matters.

True, that's why he would be in the top 3 for sure, with youkilis & morneau. Youkilis was in the same situation and stepped up big as well. Morneau had a very similar situation, with cuddyer missing almost 90 games, and he was the guy that was supposed to replace torii hunter as the guy hitting behind Morneau. They were also missing a key table-setter in alexi casilla, and the acquisition Delmon Young was supposed to offset the loss of Hunter but he did practically nothing.

But my big selling point with Morneau is: How did the Twins finish 3rd in the AL in runs by playing small-ball using average players, one great hitting catcher and one run-producer. Easy, the run producer came up HUGE, and I'm talking about Morneau. Boston had several guys who could produce: the Manny & Bay tandem in LF, Youkilis, Ortiz (he still finished with 89 RBI), Lowell still finished with 73 RBI in limited action, and Drew with 64RBI. Ellsbury was also a good leadoff hitter.

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:40 PM
use whatever you want, but typically those that push or defend a-rod end up quoting april and may stats:o

so? ALL GAMES COUNT THE SAME. Those games are just as important.

TickTickBoom
11-18-2008, 04:40 PM
wow what joke.... i guess playing in boston has its privledges

How do you figure that? David Ortiz was robbed 2 times in the MVP voting. The last Red Sox player to win the MVP was Mo Vaughn in 95. Dustin Pedroia deserved this award more than anyone else.

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:41 PM
For the love of God, say something you can at least prove.

his AL MVP award :rolleyes:

spechtacular18
11-18-2008, 04:41 PM
well you have to take in consideration that pedroia for most of the year batted in the 2 hole and then made his way to the clean up hitter towards the end.

morneau only had 6 more home runs than pedroia, yes morneau had a whole heck of alot of rbis then pedroia but you have to look at the position in the order that he batted in. pedroia is a table setter, someone who will score runs, and morneau is the rbi guy.

the reason why arod didnt get it is because this year was considered a down year for him, which is sad because his year would be amazing for any other guy, but since he is arod he is expected to hit 40-45 hrs and 130-150 rbis a year

and yes if quentin didnt get hurt he would have more then likely won the award. he was having an amazing season, but too bad for him he got hurt.

pedroia deserved this award and i think that he was a perfect person to win it. all you other people who like the yankees or what not, you can deal with it. im a phillies fan. i can accept pujols winning the award over howard because pujols deserved it. he was more consistent during the year and he should have one it. so i tihnk all you other fans should accept that the person that won it is the person that deserved it. bottom line

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:41 PM
My first two choices were Morneau or Youk

CityofChamps924
11-18-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm not a Pedroia hater, but I am kind of surprised that so many people say he was hands down the MVP. The two major things that stick out to me are the fact that his slugging was not all that spectacular for an MVP, and his OBP wasn't out of this world either.

Is it his defense that has everyone saying he was definitely the MVP or what? I am more just confused than anything by all the support. And even if you bring into question his team's success, Youk had a better season.

Can someone just clarify why so many are so PedroiaMVP crazy? I mean I know he is a great player, but how is he THAT great.

I think its just a lot of Red Sox fans trying to defend him with everyone else saying this was a terrible choice. I certainly wouldn't say he was definitely the MVP, he doesn't fit the mold of a normal winner. I just think the voters saw the great defense, the league lead in hits, doubles, and runs, and the fact that he is considered to be the catalyst for a team that was one win away from the World Series. Many other candidates were equally viable, Youkillis and others included, like I have said before in this thread. No matter who won, there would have been arguments and people would have been unhappy depending on their own team loyalties.

Matchstckman
11-18-2008, 04:42 PM
his AL MVP award :rolleyes:

Haha I actually like that response. I still think you haven't show me anything to warrant him actually deserving the award but that was funny at least.

C1Bman88
11-18-2008, 04:43 PM
How do you figure that? David Ortiz was robbed 2 times in the MVP voting. The last Red Sox player to win the MVP was Mo Vaughn in 95. Dustin Pedroia deserved this award more than anyone else.

You can't really "rob" a DH from winning an MVP, in my opinion.

weebs
11-18-2008, 04:44 PM
I think its just a lot of Red Sox fans trying to defend him with everyone else saying this was a terrible choice. I certainly wouldn't say he was definitely the MVP, he doesn't fit the mold of a normal winner. I just think the voters saw the great defense, the league lead in hits, doubles, and runs, and the fact that he is considered to be the catalyst for a team that was one win away from the World Series. Many other candidates were equally viable, Youkillis and others included, like I have said before in this thread. No matter who won, there would have been arguments and people would have been unhappy depending on their own team loyalties.
Voters are idiots. Why is leading the league in doubles impressive? It's not. I'd rather have 40 doubles and 30 homers than 50 doubles and 15 homers, wouldn't you? And you can thank his team for the runs, he had nothing to do with that.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:44 PM
How do you figure that? David Ortiz was robbed 2 times in the MVP voting. The last Red Sox player to win the MVP was Mo Vaughn in 95. Dustin Pedroia deserved this award more than anyone else.

Youkilis did


well you have to take in consideration that pedroia for most of the year batted in the 2 hole and then made his way to the clean up hitter towards the end.

morneau only had 6 more home runs than pedroia, yes morneau had a whole heck of alot of rbis then pedroia but you have to look at the position in the order that he batted in. pedroia is a table setter, someone who will score runs, and morneau is the rbi guy.

the reason why arod didnt get it is because this year was considered a down year for him, which is sad because his year would be amazing for any other guy, but since he is arod he is expected to hit 40-45 hrs and 130-150 rbis a year

and yes if quentin didnt get hurt he would have more then likely won the award. he was having an amazing season, but too bad for him he got hurt.

pedroia deserved this award and i think that he was a perfect person to win it. all you other people who like the yankees or what not, you can deal with it. im a phillies fan. i can accept pujols winning the award over howard because pujols deserved it. he was more consistent during the year and he should have one it. so i tihnk all you other fans should accept that the person that won it is the person that deserved it. bottom line

I agree on Arod on Quentin on Morneau etc except on the bold part

Youkilis was far more valuable to the red sox than pedroia

hoggin88
11-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Barry Larkin part II but w/e...the fact that we're talking bout says a lil something about its validity.


....thats all I'm sayin, congrats Pedroia, he's a damn good ball player.

Thank god Youk didn't get it ;)

Isn't it worse? I mean, Larkin's '95 season was better than Pedroia's this year as far as I can tell.

Matchstckman
11-18-2008, 04:45 PM
To all the people who think Morneau should have won it, hell I'd rather have Pedroia. Morneau is one of the worst defensive 1B in the league.

I'll take Mauer, ARod, Youk, or Sizemore as my MVPs

CityofChamps924
11-18-2008, 04:45 PM
You can't really "rob" a DH from winning an MVP, in my opinion.

Especially not Ortiz, that is one big man. I wouldn't want to rob that guy.

PHX-SOXFAN
11-18-2008, 04:47 PM
The reason Arod shouldnt win MVP is because he hit into a bunch of double plays, despite that he has much much better numbers? Seriously?

it's because of how it translates into him not being the most "valuable". the most "valuable" player doesn't fold up like a lawnchair towards the end of the season and not come through in clutch situations, let alone hit into double plays to worsen the outcome. the most "valuable" player leads his team to places they wouldn't be without him. the yankees may have been better off without someone going GIDP so many times down the stretch

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 04:48 PM
Watch Pedroia hit 15 HRs with 70 RBIs next season

spechtacular18
11-18-2008, 04:49 PM
Youkilis did



I agree on Arod on Quentin on Morneau etc except on the bold part

Youkilis was far more valuable to the red sox than pedroia

yeah i guess i have to agree with that. i didnt realize that youk had such a good year. i was too worried about what everyone else was sayin about arod and all that ****. youk was pretty amazing for them this year. but i guess you could also have the opinion and argument that when papi was hurt and manny left that youk was given a more rbi role, but youk probably should have gotten. you cant say that pedroia didnt deserve though either

TickTickBoom
11-18-2008, 04:49 PM
I haven't heard one person on Sportscenter or, ESPN News, or anybody in the real world say that Pedroia should not have won the MVP award. The only people who disagree are on this thread. All the experts said Pedroia was the clear cut winner before the results were even in and, all you wanna-be experts disagree. LOL

johnnylee722
11-18-2008, 04:50 PM
Right move without a question.

Without him Red Sox don't make the playoffs.

Does everything well and plays hard. Definition of MVP.

Might not have the best numbers, but he was the most valuable player in the AL.

Good work and congrats Dustin... you deserve it. Great season.

CityofChamps924
11-18-2008, 04:51 PM
Watch Pedroia hit 15 HRs with 70 RBIs next season

Watch him hit 21 Hrs with 97 RBIs, 52 doubles, a .328 batting average, 211 hits, 22 steals, 11 errors, eat 208 Fenway Franks, yell **** you 2,989 times, and shrink a couple of inches so he becomes even scrappier.

pedrofan45
11-18-2008, 04:52 PM
all the people who disagree don't watch every sox game, youk had an amazing year, but in my opinion and most sox fans opinions, pedroia was the mvp

hoggin88
11-18-2008, 04:53 PM
I haven't heard one person on Sportscenter or, ESPN News, or anybody in the real world say that Pedroia should not have won the MVP award. The only people who disagree are on this thread. All the experts said Pedroia was the clear cut winner before the results were even in and, all you wanna-be experts disagree. LOL

I'm seriously just curious as to why he deserved it? Offensively he was nothing out of this world. He was a pretty good baserunner, a very good defender, but not an MVP caliber offensive threat. I'm not trying to sound like I'm an expert I just seriously want to know why so many think he undoubtedly deserved it.

And as I said earlier, I don't want to hear anything about him carrying his team without Manny or any of that, because Youkilis did that as well, but did it better.

Matchstckman
11-18-2008, 04:53 PM
I haven't heard one person on Sportscenter or, ESPN News, or anybody in the real world say that Pedroia should not have won the MVP award. The only people who disagree are on this thread. All the experts said Pedroia was the clear cut winner before the results were even in and, all you wanna-be experts disagree. LOL

Haha you just put Sportscenter/ESPN and Experts in the same post.

Bravo.

con_artist
11-18-2008, 04:54 PM
Wow, i was shocked to see that he was, he was beyond undeserving of this award :pity:

spechtacular18
11-18-2008, 04:54 PM
I'm seriously just curious as to why he deserved it? Offensively he was nothing out of this world. He was a pretty good baserunner, a very good defender, but not an MVP caliber offensive threat. I'm not trying to sound like I'm an expert I just seriously want to know why so many think he undoubtedly deserved it.

And as I said earlier, I don't want to hear anything about him carrying his team without Manny or any of that, because Youkilis did that as well, but did it better.

if you ever watched any games, you would see why pedroia is the MVP. comes up with big hits, huge defense(gold glover), and just plays all around great baseball

MrBloop
11-18-2008, 04:56 PM
Your Pedrofan thing kinda works for pedroia too. Thats good news.

hoggin88
11-18-2008, 04:57 PM
if you ever watched any games, you would see why pedroia is the MVP. comes up with big hits, huge defense(gold glover), and just plays all around great baseball

Well yes you're right I hardly watched any Red Sox games. I just am looking at the stats and Youkilis was FAR AND AWAY better offensively than Pedroia. I mean, it was a big difference and I really doubt the defensive aspect comes close to making up for that gap in offensive production.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 04:59 PM
Only Sizemore and A-Rod would have deserved it more if you disregard the teams. Maybe Mauer. Out of the playoff teams, Pedroia deserved it by far.

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 04:59 PM
Honestly he's pretty overrated. Look who hit behind him this year, Ortiz (Ramirez for half the season), Bay and Youkilis. He get's to see the best pitches. He hit's for average, that's about it. A-rod, Morneau and Hamilton did that plus much more. Not one person can carry a team so stop saying he carried the team because the real leader of that team is Varitek.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:02 PM
Well yes you're right I hardly watched any Red Sox games. I just am looking at the stats and Youkilis was FAR AND AWAY better offensively than Pedroia. I mean, it was a big difference and I really doubt the defensive aspect comes close to making up for that gap in offensive production.

Youkilis was worth about 1 win offensively over Pedroia, but once defense and position are taken into account, Pedroia was the more valuable player.

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:06 PM
use whatever you want, but typically those that push or defend a-rod end up quoting april and may stats:o

No, oh Red Sox fan, they don't.


A-Rod in July 2008: .337/.413/.621/1.034

Pedroia in July 2008: .350/.398/.485/.884

Did I mention that that was from July? Did you know July is a month that is not either of April or May? Did you know, in fact, that July is almost right in the middle of the season, and a full month separated from May? July and April/May don't even touch each other on those big desk calendars. And there's A-Rod, in a month that is neither April or May, killing baseballs with that deadly weapon he likes to call a bat. Silly A-Rod.

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:09 PM
it's because of how it translates into him not being the most "valuable". the most "valuable" player doesn't fold up like a lawnchair towards the end of the season and not come through in clutch situations, let alone hit into double plays to worsen the outcome. the most "valuable" player leads his team to places they wouldn't be without him. the yankees may have been better off without someone going GIDP so many times down the stretch

Oh... you must mean the 1 double play he hit into in all of September. Good call there.:up:

PHX-SOXFAN
11-18-2008, 05:10 PM
No, oh Red Sox fan, they don't.


A-Rod in July 2008: .337/.413/.621/1.034

Pedroia in July 2008: .350/.398/.485/.884

Did I mention that that was from July? Did you know July is a month that is not either of April or May? Did you know, in fact, that July is almost right in the middle of the season, and a full month separated from May? July and April/May don't even touch each other on those big desk calendars. And there's A-Rod, in a month that is neither April or May, killing baseballs with that deadly weapon he likes to call a bat. Silly A-Rod.

oh I watched him with that weapon. I watched him try to kill groundhogs with it as he drove the ball into the ground the entire month of august, right before a middle infielder grabbed it and started a twin killing.:o

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:10 PM
Watch him hit 21 Hrs with 97 RBIs, 52 doubles, a .328 batting average, 211 hits, 22 steals, 11 errors, eat 208 Fenway Franks, yell **** you 2,989 times, and shrink a couple of inches so he becomes even scrappier.

That is what baseball needs! More scrappy, gritty players who just play the game the right way. :clap:

weebs
11-18-2008, 05:11 PM
I haven't heard one person on Sportscenter or, ESPN News, or anybody in the real world say that Pedroia should not have won the MVP award. The only people who disagree are on this thread. All the experts said Pedroia was the clear cut winner before the results were even in and, all you wanna-be experts disagree. LOL

these are the same "experts" that gave K-Rod votes for MVP and Cy Young. Just because they have a job writing about baseball or reporting it doesn't mean they're experts.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:11 PM
Alex Rodriguez OPS in month of Sept:

.915

Dustin Pedroia in month of Sept:

.914

A-Rod didn't play up to his talent level, which can happen in any given month and does, yet he was still as productive as Pedroia (by OPS, which I don't really like, but wOBA splits aren't available).

PHX-SOXFAN
11-18-2008, 05:11 PM
Oh... you must mean the 1 double play he hit into in all of September. Good call there.:up:

I was talking about the month that his team fell out of contention, you know, that month where you really need momentum to get to the postseason, instead of GIDP's in mass quantity

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:12 PM
oh I watched him with that weapon. I watched him try to kill groundhogs with it as he drove the ball into the ground the entire month of august, right before a middle infielder grabbed it and started a twin killing.:o

You better make sure of that. It's possible you got him confused with David Ortiz and his 8 GIDP in April. It is another month that starts with A, I could see where the confusion could arise.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:12 PM
That is what baseball needs! More scrappy, gritty players who just play the game the right way. :clap:

Yes, and 2B with really good defense and a good bat....

LeBrowns
11-18-2008, 05:14 PM
Dustin Pedroia the leagues most valuable player?! Hes not even the most valuable red sock. hahahaha

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:14 PM
Dustin Pedroia the leagues most valuable player?! Hes not even the most valuable red sock. hahahaha

No, he actually was in 2008.

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Dustin Pedroia the leagues most valuable player?! Hes not even the most valuable red sock. hahahaha

According to Red Sox fans he's the one who carried the team so that makes him the MVP. Maybe he was the MVP on the Sox, but in the AL he shouldn't have even been considered.

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 05:16 PM
I'm sure this will be Pedroia's last MVP award.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:17 PM
According to Red Sox fans he's the one who carried the team so that makes him the MVP. Maybe he was the MVP on the Sox, but in the AL he shouldn't have even been considered.

No, he actually should have. A 2B with a .377 wOBA and good defense is more valuable than whatever Justin Morneau did.

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:17 PM
I was talking about the month that his team fell out of contention, you know, that month where you really need momentum to get to the postseason, instead of GIDP's in mass quantity
Yes, what A-Rod should've done was not let his pitchers throw up an ERA of 4.90 in games started, and maybe then they would've stayed in contention. A-Rod can't even come through in the clutch in a position he doesn't even play. :pity:

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 05:18 PM
No, he actually should have. A 2B with a .377 wOBA and good defense is more valuable than whatever Justin Morneau did.

what is wOBA? Is that just another useless stat?

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:19 PM
what is wOBA? Is that just another useless stat?

If by "useless" you mean "statistic built on logic, facts, and studies and that is better than batting average, RBIs, OPS, etc." then yes.

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:19 PM
what is wOBA? Is that just another useless stat?

No, it's another useful stat, actually.


Remember now, this is the part where you make a joke about Seamhead living in his mother's basement.

MarkieMark48
11-18-2008, 05:19 PM
wow what joke.... i guess playing in boston has its privledges

exactly what i was thinking

TickTickBoom
11-18-2008, 05:24 PM
Well yes you're right I hardly watched any Red Sox games. I just am looking at the stats and Youkilis was FAR AND AWAY better offensively than Pedroia. I mean, it was a big difference and I really doubt the defensive aspect comes close to making up for that gap in offensive production.

Pedroia had a .326 batting average, 213 hits, 118 runs, 54 doubles, 20 stolen bases, and he only struck out 52 times. Those aren't MVP numbers? Please

ugafan
11-18-2008, 05:25 PM
LOL

His .869 OPS is ****ing terrible for an MVP candidate, especially when there's 7+guys with OPS.'s higher than Pedroia, this award is a joke. baseball awards have become a joke too. ****ing ridiculous.

natepro
11-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Pedroia had a .326 batting average, 213 hits, 118 runs, 54 doubles, 20 stolen bases, and he only struck out 52 times. Those aren't MVP numbers? Please
Number of strikeouts doesn't really matter, AVG is a less-than-great stat, number of hits doesn't really matter, number of runs doesn't matter at all, stolen bases are overrated.

You're welcome.

con_artist
11-18-2008, 05:26 PM
LOL

His .869 OPS is ****ing terrible for an MVP candidate, especially when there's 7+guys with OPS.'s higher than Pedroia, this award is a joke. baseball awards have become a joke too. ****ing ridiculous.

I know, i looked that up and laughed, it reminded me of when rollins won it last year in the NL

I guess all the writers must really like boston or something

hammerinhank
11-18-2008, 05:28 PM
I haven't heard one person on Sportscenter or, ESPN News, or anybody in the real world say that Pedroia should not have won the MVP award. The only people who disagree are on this thread. All the experts said Pedroia was the clear cut winner before the results were even in and, all you wanna-be experts disagree. LOL

The same experts who gave Edinson Volquez ROY votes when he wasnt even eligable... Oh yeah those experts.

Sabres39
11-18-2008, 05:32 PM
The same experts who gave Edinson Volquez ROY votes when he wasnt even eligable... Oh yeah those experts.

Some of those very same experts didn't even put Roy Halladay on their ballots.

Havoc Wreaker
11-18-2008, 05:34 PM
If by "useless" you mean "statistic built on logic, facts, and studies and that is better than batting average, RBIs, OPS, etc." then yes.

:laugh:

quiksilver2491
11-18-2008, 05:34 PM
Wow some of you are overreacting majorly. Pedroia was arguably the most deserving player from any of the AL playoff teams so get over it. The only other players that should even be argued here are A-Rod, Sizemore and Mauer. Of the bunch only Mauer played in the playoffs, which seems to be big with the writers.

76YazwSideburns
11-18-2008, 05:34 PM
Number of strikeouts doesn't really matter, AVG is a less-than-great stat, number of hits doesn't really matter, number of runs doesn't matter at all, stolen bases are overrated.

You're welcome.

Hits don't matter? I've seen exactly one team - ever - get no hit and win.

Runs don't matter at all? - You'll have a great deal of difficulty winning without scoring any, but you're probably right.

If you're stealing bases at above a 75% success rate, Bill James will tell you they're pretty useful. Pedroia - 20/22 this season = useful.

If you extrapolate the individual and apply to the team, your statements strike me as flimsy, if not totally incorrect.

spechtacular18
11-18-2008, 05:36 PM
im sorry but josh hamiltons home/away splits took him right out of contention

StryderSox
11-18-2008, 05:36 PM
This board is exactly why Pedroia deserves to be MVP. He puts up great numbers for a second baseman and still can't get any respect outside of Boston.

And for all of you who are comparing Pedroia's numbers with A-Rod and Morneau get a clue. He is a completely different kind of player with a completely different role. You can't compare the production numbers of a cleanup hitter with a leadoff or number 2 hitter.

Pedroia hit for an incredibly good average was a stealing threat and played gold glove defense. More importantly he stepped it up and became the life of a Red Sox team who was riddle by injury and had major players deliver sub-par preformances (Ortiz, Vartiek).

Bottomline is that if you think he snot deserving then you weren't watching. Its about being Most Valuable to your team not padded statistics

Towelie
11-18-2008, 05:37 PM
Number of strikeouts doesn't really matter, AVG is a less-than-great stat, number of hits doesn't really matter, number of runs doesn't matter at all, stolen bases are overrated.

You're welcome.

So every stat doesn't matter I guess. This forum is hilarious. One guy *****es over one stat for him not deserving it.

lincecum98
11-18-2008, 05:38 PM
This board is exactly why Pedroia deserves to be MVP. He puts up great numbers for a second baseman and still can't get any respect outside of Boston.

And for all of you who are comparing Pedroia's numbers with A-Rod and Morneau get a clue. He is a completely different kind of player with a completely different role. You can't compare the production numbers of a cleanup hitter with a leadoff or number 2 hitter.

Pedroia hit for an incredibly good average was a stealing threat and played gold glove defense. More importantly he stepped it up and became the life of a Red Sox team who was riddle by injury and had major players deliver sub-par preformances (Ortiz, Vartiek).

Bottomline is that if you think he snot deserving then you weren't watching. Its about being Most Valuable to your team not padded statistics

No it's not, it's about being the best overall player in the league and statistics should be the main thing used in determining an MVP not because you think he carried your team.

JAYZFAN9
11-18-2008, 05:39 PM
joke!

76YazwSideburns
11-18-2008, 05:41 PM
Aaron Hill deserved it.

papipapsmanny
11-18-2008, 05:42 PM
apparently he many here believe he shouldnt win because they are so used to thinking that u have to have homeruns and rbis to get the award. People here find it unbelievable that a guy with less than 25 homeruns is mvp.


O well i welcome all the hate, he got it nothing u can do about it now.

chisox..YES!
11-18-2008, 05:46 PM
WOW. Quentin would have won by a landslide if he played the last month of the season. He still finished fifth.

hammerinhank
11-18-2008, 05:46 PM
apparently he many here believe he shouldnt win because they are so used to thinking that u have to have homeruns and rbis to get the award. People here find it unbelievable that a guy with less than 25 homeruns is mvp.


O well i welcome all the hate, he got it nothing u can do about it now.

I dont care about homeruns but there are plenty of other stats more meaningful that Pedroia wasnt tops in... There were 17 guys with a better ops then him.

Im not saying it was a bad choice and that he wasnt deserving but if you gave arod pedroia's numbers I gurantee you he wouldnt win MVP.

Whatever he wond congrats to him. :clap:

JonnyBrav000
11-18-2008, 05:47 PM
What a weak year for AL MVP candidates, to think this guy has one and so many great players in the hall of fame and future hall of famers don't have it, he played well, can't say I'm upset he won it, but I bet he will never even finish in the top 3 again. Personally I would have voted for Justin Morneau mainly because of how he played and how inferior his team was compared to how well they played.

This goes to show that the NL does have the top players Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez, CC Sabathia, however the AL is better because they have more good players than the NL does.

Sabres39
11-18-2008, 05:48 PM
Im sorry when did Most Valuable turn into be best in the league? Did I miss something? Pedroia was most valuable to his team, without him Sox don't go anywhere.

Look at all the Jays fans :laugh: Maybe it should of went to Wells :laugh:

Good, the Red Sox can give him a team MVP.

If Youkilis won it, I wouldn't have had a problem because the stats he put up are much better. But I don't agree with Pedroia at all.

StryderSox
11-18-2008, 05:48 PM
No it's not, it's about being the best overall player in the league and statistics should be the main thing used in determining an MVP not because you think he carried your team.

Okay so by this criteria then a guy who bats leadoff, hits .320 35 HR and 120 RBIs is not MVP material beause a cleanup hitter who is setup to bat with runners in scoring position hits .300 40 HR and 140 RBIs?

I dont know about you but the guy who puts up top numbers for his position, plays hard everyday, is great in the locker room and steps up whenh his team needs it is much more valuable to me than a guy like A-Rod or Manny who is concerned only with their statistics and their next paycheck

JonnyBrav000
11-18-2008, 05:49 PM
Good point from HammerinHank, makes alot of sense.

I dont care about homeruns but there are plenty of other stats more meaningful that Pedroia wasnt tops in... There were 17 guys with a better ops then him.

Im not saying it was a bad choice and that he wasnt deserving but if you gave arod pedroia's numbers I gurantee you he wouldnt win MVP.

76YazwSideburns
11-18-2008, 05:52 PM
^^^^

He did play pretty good defense too - that hasn't much been discussed.

Not Aaron Hill calibre defense, but, hey, there's only one Aaron Hill.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 05:52 PM
^^^^

He did play pretty good defense too - that hasn't much been discussed.

Or the fact that he plays a premium defensive position.

StryderSox
11-18-2008, 05:53 PM
I dont care about homeruns but there are plenty of other stats more meaningful that Pedroia wasnt tops in... There were 17 guys with a better ops then him.

Im not saying it was a bad choice and that he wasnt deserving but if you gave arod pedroia's numbers I gurantee you he wouldnt win MVP.

Whatever he wond congrats to him. :clap:

Don't compare Pedroia with ARod. Pedroia works hard everyday, is the definition of a team player and is all heart. ARod is baby that only cares about his stats, his paycheck and giving it to Madonna

Towelie
11-18-2008, 05:54 PM
I dont care about homeruns but there are plenty of other stats more meaningful that Pedroia wasnt tops in... There were 17 guys with a better ops then him.

Im not saying it was a bad choice and that he wasnt deserving but if you gave arod pedroia's numbers I gurantee you he wouldnt win MVP.

Whatever he wond congrats to him. :clap:



So cause in one stat he was 17 he doesn't deserve it?

2009mvp
11-18-2008, 05:57 PM
Or the fact that he plays a premium defensive position.

Like Joe Mauer??

hammerinhank
11-18-2008, 05:58 PM
So cause in one stat he was 17 he doesn't deserve it?

Where in my post did I saw he was non deserving...

JonnyBrav000
11-18-2008, 05:58 PM
No not cause of 1 stat actually, even if you don't look at OPS what about the fact that he only had 83 RBI's Mornaue had 129, plus dude only had 17 HR and he has a bunch of good players around him too, Mornaue doesn't have that luxury of having such a good team around him, but he did help his overachieving team almost make it to the post season.

Plus if you look at the last 5 MVP, it's seems pretty funny to see Pedrioa's name up there, doesn't make any sense.

hammerinhank
11-18-2008, 05:59 PM
Don't compare Pedroia with ARod. Pedroia works hard everyday, is the definition of a team player and is all heart. ARod is baby that only cares about his stats, his paycheck and giving it to Madonna

So Barry Bonds worked hard everyday when he won his awards? I never knew that was criteria in mvp voting.

mattz1212
11-18-2008, 06:02 PM
Well 5/6 isn't bad I actually applaud sports writers for getting it right (for the most part) this year.

Pedroia isn't an unworldly terrible selection, but it has to be mentioned above earning the award a few had to fall (mainly the injury to Quentin) for him to get it.

bleedpinstripes
11-18-2008, 06:03 PM
down year in terms of prototypical MVP #'s in the AL, but he deserved it...congrats dusty

bagwell368
11-18-2008, 06:03 PM
Stats?

2nd BA; 1st Runs; 1st Hits; 1st 2B (in ML), 4th Total Bases; 4th runs created; 3rd times on base; GG; silver slugger

Granted if a big time hitter was around this year - its not Pedroia, but about 10 guys had a claim; some faded because teams faded; others faded because they stupidly cost themselves games played due to bad temper;

in these circumstances, a plucky, good fielding dirt dog has his day. come back in about 9 years, there will be another 2B/SS that gets in the AL or NL.

In the NL this Pedroia is probably 3rd - 5th

2009mvp
11-18-2008, 06:05 PM
So Barry Bonds worked hard everyday when he won his awards? I never knew that was criteria in mvp voting.

Maybe. I hate when people question a player's work ethic/dedication/desire to win. Unless you know the guy personally or happen to travel with the ballclub, no one should assume stuff like that.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 06:05 PM
LOL

His .869 OPS is ****ing terrible for an MVP candidate

OPS, the stat that seriously undervalues OBP and is full of many, many flaws. Dustin Pedroia happens to be awesome at getting on base. Look at wOBA, which actually gives correct weighs to every event.


,especially when there's 7+guys with OPS.'s higher than Pedroia,

You're completely forgetting about defense and positional scarcity.


this award is a joke.

Yes, for the most part.

natepro
11-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Hits don't matter? I've seen exactly one team - ever - get no hit and win.

Runs don't matter at all? - You'll have a great deal of difficulty winning without scoring any, but you're probably right.

If you're stealing bases at above a 75% success rate, Bill James will tell you they're pretty useful. Pedroia - 20/22 this season = useful.

If you extrapolate the individual and apply to the team, your statements strike me as flimsy, if not totally incorrect.

We're talking about individual stats as a means of evaluating a player. Thanks for playing though.

viktor06
11-18-2008, 06:08 PM
Well, wasnt the worst choice, at least they gave it to a guy with good defense playing thin position. I'd still give it to Joe Mauer I think, with Youkilis second and A-Rod third.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 06:08 PM
Like Joe Mauer??

Yup. It's pretty close between Joe Mauer and Pedroia. I'd give it to Joe Mauer, probably. It really depends how you value catcher defense, which is something that is not easy to measure. I'd give it to Grady and A-Rod over Pedroia, but Pedroia was not really a bad pick.

natepro
11-18-2008, 06:09 PM
So every stat doesn't matter I guess. This forum is hilarious. One guy *****es over one stat for him not deserving it.

I didn't realize I'd named every stat. I must type faster than I thought.

mattz1212
11-18-2008, 06:09 PM
So Barry Bonds worked hard everyday when he won his awards? I never knew that was criteria in mvp voting.

Well last year also proved that a random guarantee by a player plays a role in MVP voting so I wouldn't put anything past voters.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 06:11 PM
We're talking about individual stats as a means of evaluating a player. Thanks for playing though.

Using the linear weight values of a SB and CS, Pedroia was worth about 2 runs via base stealing. Not very significant.

viktor06
11-18-2008, 06:11 PM
Actually Brian Roberts was almost as good as Pedroia, and Sizemore would be my MVP

JonnyBrav000
11-18-2008, 06:13 PM
Actually Bonds did work hard like he always did, he just had a little extra help, don't forget Bonds did win 3 MVP's b4 the juice, but I think it's pretty rediculous for someone to say A-rod doesn't work hard, have you ever gone to the gym with him and seen him slack off, what makes you think A-rod doesn't work hard??? The guy is a major league hitter

natepro
11-18-2008, 06:14 PM
Using the linear weight values of a SB and CS, Pedroia was worth about 2 runs via base stealing. Not very significant.

This is what I'm saying.

TickTickBoom
11-18-2008, 06:20 PM
Number of strikeouts doesn't really matter, AVG is a less-than-great stat, number of hits doesn't really matter, number of runs doesn't matter at all, stolen bases are overrated.

You're welcome.

Since when does hits, runs, and stolen bases not count when your picking the leagues most valuable player? What are you ****ing soft or something?

natepro
11-18-2008, 06:21 PM
Since when does hits, runs, and stolen bases not count when your picking the leagues most valuable player? What are you ****ing soft or something?

Since people discovered there are better ways to evaluate a player's true talent. :shrug:


Progress isn't a bad thing.

weebs
11-18-2008, 06:22 PM
OPS, the stat that seriously undervalues OBP and is full of many, many flaws. Dustin Pedroia happens to be awesome at getting on base. Look at wOBA, which actually gives correct weighs to every event.



You're completely forgetting about defense and positional scarcity.



Yes, for the most part.

.376 OBP is awesome at getting on base?

I don't subscribe to positional scarcity the same way every saber-head (i'm among saberheads 99% of the time) does too. Just because the position is typically weak-hitting doesn't mean his offensive numbers should somehow get an automatic boost.

viktor06
11-18-2008, 06:22 PM
Since when does hits, runs, and stolen bases not count when your picking the leagues most valuable player? What are you ****ing soft or something?

It's not as important as OBP, OPS+, defense, position.

viktor06
11-18-2008, 06:23 PM
Grady Sizemore .268/.374/.502 128OPS+, top defense in CF, 38SB 5CS...that's my MVP.

Silent
11-18-2008, 06:30 PM
Grady Sizemore .268/.374/.502 128OPS+, top defense in CF, 38SB 5CS...that's my MVP.

and that's why u ain't a mlb news writer. the man deserved the award



Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
2006 22 BOS AL 31 89 5 17 4 0 2 7 0 1 7 7 .191 .258 .303 42 27 1 0 0 1 1
2007 23 BOS AL 139 520 86 165 39 1 8 50 7 1 47 42 .317 .380 .442 112 230 5 2 1 7 8 RoY-1
2008 24 BOS AL 157 653 118 213 54 2 17 83 20 1 50 52 .326 .376 .493 122 322 7 9 1 7 17 SS,AS
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+

Mythman13
11-18-2008, 06:30 PM
You people are crazy
pedroia deserved it just as much as the next guy
And yes was the most valuable to his team

TickTickBoom
11-18-2008, 06:31 PM
It's not as important as OBP, OPS+, defense, position.

OBP and OPS are more important stats than hits, runs, and stolen bases? Defense should be considered and, he won a gold glove. Leading the league in hits, runs, doubles, and coming in 3rd in batting average don't count win you pick the most valuable player? You guys are a not funny ****ing joke.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 06:33 PM
.376 OBP is awesome at getting on base?

That's pretty good, but for some reason I thought his OBP eas .390. That might have been last year.


I don't subscribe to positional scarcity the same way every saber-head (i'm among saberheads 99% of the time) does too. Just because the position is typically weak-hitting doesn't mean his offensive numbers should somehow get an automatic boost.

It's not just because of that. It's also because not many players are able to play the position he does effectively, or at least good enough to stay on a MLB roster.

It's also a defensive adjustment. Albert Pujols would not be a 2 win defensive player at 2B.

weebs
11-18-2008, 06:34 PM
OBP and OPS are more important stats than hits, runs, and stolen bases? Defense should be considered and, he won a gold glove. Leading the league in hits, runs, doubles, and coming in 3rd in batting average don't count win you pick the most valuable player? You guys are a not funny ****ing joke.

gold gloves are a joke, please don't use them as evidence. pedroia was not the best 2nd baseman defensively in the AL this year. Nate McLouth was the worst CF in baseball and he won a gold glove.

weebs
11-18-2008, 06:35 PM
That's pretty good, but for some reason I thought his OBP eas .390. That might have been last year.



It's not just because of that. It's also because not many players are able to play the position he does effectively. It's also a defensive adjustment. Albert Pujols would not be a 2 win defensive player at 2B.
I get the argument, I just disagree with it. I don't believe scarcity of position bonuses should be rewarded to players because they have weaker peers at that position.

Seamhead
11-18-2008, 06:36 PM
I get the argument, I just disagree with it. I don't believe scarcity of position bonuses should be rewarded to players because they have weaker peers at that position.

They have weaker peers for a reason. If it were just random, then positional metrics would have no year-to-year correlation.

northsider
11-18-2008, 06:37 PM
I really don't think he was the number one choice for MVP. I guess that is baseball though I also find it funny how it is mostly Redsox fans agreeing with this decision.

Either way I guess congrats to him I don't catch many redsox games so they must have seen something we all didn't.

xander
11-18-2008, 06:38 PM
That's awesome. I was hoping he would win it.

natepro
11-18-2008, 06:38 PM
OBP and OPS are more important stats than hits, runs, and stolen bases? Defense should be considered and, he won a gold glove. Leading the league in hits, runs, doubles, and coming in 3rd in batting average don't count win you pick the most valuable player? You guys are a not funny ****ing joke.

Ah well. You can't have everyone be part of the smart kids. Who would they make fun of, then?

weebs
11-18-2008, 06:43 PM
They have weaker peers for a reason. If it were just random, then positional metrics would have no year-to-year correlation.

Weaker peers for what reason though? Has this been clearly defined? Great hitting infielders often get moved to the outfield because the organization would rather have their best hitters in the OF and put a premium on infield defense. The only time I think that positional scarcity should really come into play is when a player is outstanding defensively at 2B or SS (this is why I don't buy the Jeff Kent for HOF argument). Pedroia is good defensively, but I'm not sure I'm ready to crown him elite.

hoggin88
11-18-2008, 06:44 PM
Youkilis was worth about 1 win offensively over Pedroia, but once defense and position are taken into account, Pedroia was the more valuable player.

See now if this is accurate, then I can more easily accept the fact that Pedroia won it. I was just hearing people spouting off about how Pedroia undoubtedly deserved it, even over Youkilis, but before this no one was REALLY saying why besides "he came up big down the stretch".

Thanks!

Tragedy
11-18-2008, 06:48 PM
Deserved it or not, I'm so happy.

I still remember all the WEEI calls the beginning of 2007 about how he'll never do good. :laugh2:

Nighthawk
11-18-2008, 07:01 PM
this is probably the biggest joke of an MVP award since ...god, I don't even know. Larkin in 1995? Baseball writers are huge failures. This is unbelievable.

It was you, you bastard!!

LOL


I remember plenty of arguments with you over the fact of weather or not Dustin Pedroia was Gold Glove caliber or. You said he wasnt..Well no matter what argument u wanna thow at me now, it doesnt matter. He owns this yrs Gold Glove award so to that.. i say keep hating. This MVP award just make it sweeter for me when theres people like you out there. :D

Anyways CONGRATS 2 Pedroia. This guy has done nothing but work since hes been a pro and its been ridiculous fun to watch. Ill admit im shocked because i thought Youk would take this. But **** i have been on the Pedroia bandwagon since day 1 so this is awesome 2 see.

HipSlappyJoe
11-18-2008, 07:12 PM
not a ton of great players this year in the AL who played a full season (Arod, quentin, hamilton) if anything pedroia deserves it for consistency

Raidaz4Life
11-18-2008, 07:22 PM
not a ton of great players this year in the AL who played a full season (Arod, quentin, hamilton) if anything pedroia deserves it for consistency

exactly we have a winner here, nobody is saying he was the best player but he played on a winning team and came up big throughout most of the year. I will be the first to admit he won do to a weak class this year

EddieB
11-18-2008, 07:30 PM
He is nothing special, and done nothing special, no way he should of won MVP, what a joke

Nighthawk
11-18-2008, 07:34 PM
He is nothing special, and done nothing special, no way he should of won MVP, what a joke

Well then who should have won wit Ed?

weebs
11-18-2008, 07:43 PM
It was you, you bastard!!

LOL


I remember plenty of arguments with you over the fact of weather or not Dustin Pedroia was Gold Glove caliber or. You said he wasnt..Well no matter what argument u wanna thow at me now, it doesnt matter. He owns this yrs Gold Glove award so to that.. i say keep hating. This MVP award just make it sweeter for me when theres people like you out there. :D

Anyways CONGRATS 2 Pedroia. This guy has done nothing but work since hes been a pro and its been ridiculous fun to watch. Ill admit im shocked because i thought Youk would take this. But **** i have been on the Pedroia bandwagon since day 1 so this is awesome 2 see.
and a bunch of other players won gold gloves who didn't deserve it, what's your point? that reputation of playing a major market gets you recognition you don't deserve?

this boston "us vs. the world" attitude is so annoying. people question players all the time here, k-rod, ryan howard, but as soon as it's anybody from boston it's like "KEEP HATING HATERZ"

CityofChamps924
11-18-2008, 07:47 PM
dustn is the worst player in baseball. he is terible. the righters are so stupid what were they thinking omg. what a joke i am better than pedroai

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 07:48 PM
dustn is the worst player in baseball. he is terible. the righters are so stupid what were they thinking omg. what a joke i am better than pedroai

Winner

natepro
11-18-2008, 07:52 PM
dustn is the worst player in baseball. he is terible. the righters are so stupid what were they thinking omg. what a joke i am better than pedroai

u r write eye culdnt agre moore wit wat u sed pedroai suks he shuldnt even b playng basbal he shuld b a garbge man or sumting f u pedroai!!1

hoggin88
11-18-2008, 07:52 PM
dustn is the worst player in baseball. he is terible. the righters are so stupid what were they thinking omg. what a joke i am better than pedroai

haha, this was good. :clap:

And before anyone goes off on this post I quoted, take a look at his sig. I thought it was serious at first.

EddieB
11-18-2008, 07:53 PM
Well then who should have won wit Ed?

K rod

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 07:54 PM
haha, this was good. :clap:

And before anyone goes off on this post I quoted, take a look at his sig. I thought it was serious at first.

Yeah I don't care that it is sarcasm it was hilarious.

natepro
11-18-2008, 07:56 PM
K rod



No.

weebs
11-18-2008, 07:57 PM
I really don't hate Pedroia. He's a fantastic player. i just think MVP is ridiculous.

1-800-STFU
11-18-2008, 07:58 PM
I really don't hate Pedroia. He's a fantastic player. i just think MVP is ridiculous.

I think that is pretty much what everyone outside of Boston thinks.

Gigantes4Life
11-18-2008, 07:59 PM
Should have been Sizemore :(.

The stupid you have to be on a winning team thing is ridiculous.

weebs
11-18-2008, 08:00 PM
I think that is pretty much what everyone outside of Boston thinks.

but noooo, it's US Vs. THE WORLD KEEP HATING HATERSSSSSSS

cwilson21
11-18-2008, 08:00 PM
He is nothing special, and done nothing special, no way he should of won MVP, what a joke

So that justifies your pick of Rodriguez? It's a joke K Rod got votes for MVP.

nady4president
11-18-2008, 08:08 PM
Im a huge Yanks fan but i looked it up and after the All star break he hit .345 and matched his offense total from the first half (395 AB 9HR 47RBI) in the second half (258AB 8Hr 36RBI) He even bat .376 in August, the month in which they needed him most.

bosox3431
11-18-2008, 08:14 PM
No it's not, it's about being the best overall player in the league and statistics should be the main thing used in determining an MVP not because you think he carried your team.

i already posted it once. The MVP award is not meant to be based of of stats, but of of who meant more to their team. dont believe me look it up.

UNETOWNBAYAREA
11-18-2008, 08:18 PM
a little surprised at this... but who cares...