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Jefferson25
11-16-2008, 12:30 AM
Well we are off to a 1-7 start. Obviously there are some actions that are going to be taken in the near future. We can use this forum to update and discuss what is going to happen to players, coaches, and management.

The first thing that will happen is the firing of Wittman. Timeline for that will be now until all-star break probably so we can get the new coach acquainted with the team and lead them after the break.

The second thing is the roster. What moves are going to be taken. This is harder to predict but it looks as though McCants and Foye are not part of the Wolves future plans. Look to see those guys moved.

The third thing is Kevin McHale. Is Glen Taylor going to make the move and give the keys over to Hoiberg soon? I feel it coming.

ryguy2k7
11-16-2008, 02:43 AM
We keep changing everything, and we don't seem to improve. We lost Mayo and Chalmers, of whom have shown more success already than Love and Miller. So many mistakes is so little time, it's depressing.

That being said, we have to fire Wittman because he has no idea how to close out games. We need another scorer that isn't Jefferson. We need to start running better plays and trade McCants and Foye.

This is a train wreck already.

boeknows
11-16-2008, 03:42 AM
I thought Whittman did a really good thing benching McCants when he started shooting stuid shots and didnt play him hardly at all this last game.

PurpleJesus
11-16-2008, 06:32 AM
really, your ripping on Foye after two solid games in a row? Foye defeinetly looks to be part of our future, we have him playing big minutes every game, and he plays the majority of the minutes at the point even though he is coming off the bench, plus we extended him through next season, so it appears to me that he is part of our future. Sure he turned the ball over at a critical time in the game today, but so did jefferson. of all of the guards on our team, Foye plays the most minutes, so clearly, out of all of our guards, Foye is who the team trusts the most, and even with his mediocre play this season, he is our best option at the guard position (with the exception of Miller).

Rumeye
11-16-2008, 07:50 AM
If this doesn't turn around quick Wittman will be walking the unemployment line. But then again, I said the same thing about McHale 3 years ago.

cwilson21
11-16-2008, 01:33 PM
^^^Haha true. The only way I see Wittman getting fired is if McHale is fired first. Wittman has proven that he can't coach at this level no matter where he's been though it looked like he may have had enough with McCants' foolishness out on the court after he took those 2 dumb shots and was immediately sent to the bench. McCants is a flat-out cancer IMO and needs to be off this team ASAP. Everytime he touches the ball it's guaranteed it will not be passed back to a Wolves player.

Preuss-is-right
11-17-2008, 12:42 AM
Jefferson has openly defended Wittman. Players dont like to go through coaching changes through the season. I think he has the season to work with and if there isnt a light at the end of the tunnel maybe we'll let him go. It would probably work out better that way considering Sam Mitchell's up and down relationship with the Raptors. I'd also like to see Trent Tucker get a chance considering the league is in need of unrecycled coaches.

taijes
11-17-2008, 12:50 AM
We better not get rid of Foye. We gave up Roy for him AND lost out on A.I. to keep him.

Preuss-is-right
11-17-2008, 12:56 AM
We wont give up Foye for that reason alone.

PurpleJesus
11-17-2008, 01:08 AM
We better not get rid of Foye. We gave up Roy for him AND lost out on A.I. to keep him.

good point, people always forget that philly was really trying to give us iverson for Foye. Could you imagine Foye and KG together, we would probably still have Garnett, and Boston wouldnt have won their championship. If we did give Philly Foye, i think Foye would be one of the elite youngsters in the league, Philly loved Foye and would have given him every chance to be a star, plus, in the east, his drives to the lane would be so open without all the interior defense the west has.

PurpleJesus
11-17-2008, 01:09 AM
after a terrible start, i think Foye has really done a good job, and deserves a second chances from fans

liondragonx5y
11-17-2008, 01:00 PM
the twolves stink.. but since I want a first overall pick we should wait till the season is over and then fire mcfail and wittman.. and then trade some players..

first off, Im sorry.. but there is no way we can have 2 starting SG's.. foye is a SG not a PG.. miller only got 4 shots off yesterday.. 4 SHOTS! And hes a SG... Since I'm starting to see foye's real potential I think its miller who has to go and move foye back to the SG where he belongs.. I like love and al but the problem is that big al really isnt a true center.. he doesnt have nearly the size to face the elite centers in the league.. even watching when he faced oden he looked overmatched.. but love should still get a starting job.. I just think that job should be at sf. he could be very good there and has the size to be a great player there.. but big al needs to be playing PF.. next off, mccants has to go.. he is a cancer and a ball hog on this team.. he is a decent scorer so maybe we could get something for him.. next after that would be brewer and telfair.. both of them are one sided players.. we will get something in return because they have good upside and are good at the one sided thing but they wont be in our future plans.. I dont think we should get rid of gnomes.. for some reason I just really like him..

so this is who we should trade

miller
telfair
brewer
mccants

maybe we could get an elite center for a combo of them and maybe one of our first round picks..

WSU Tony
11-17-2008, 01:09 PM
We just signed Telfair, Miller is our 2nd best player, and Brewer is as good as a lock to be on this team for the year. These get funnier and funnier.

Why don't we wait a while before we start a firesale?

Young guys with high upside BUILD value, trading only swaps value. We need a plethora of young guys so when a few of them turn into legit starters (hopefully) we build value though them. Trading young pre-matured assets for an older "established" player won't build value for us. The Celtics have 3 big established players but they aren't building value though them, they are declining in value every year. Needless to say the Celtics are at the peak of where they will be and can only go down in value year after year. Us, on the other hand, have tons of young talent which will develop and GAIN value. Whether or not we have more wins than the previous year is irrelevant in this discussion.

Think of the stock market and dividends if you want to relate to to real life. If your a young struggling team, why invest in bonds which will only bring back a "sure thing" 3-4% investment when you can hold onto your stock market portfolio which in time will yield 8-10%? When your young you take the risks to build value quickly since you don't have much to lose, when you grow older you tend to shift from the high risk/return to the lower risk/return to make sure you have the money for retirement. Bonds and low risk investments are recommended by many institutions later in life to keep the value you have earned. (This is just one of many ways people go about investing but like I said, many institutions recommend this thinking)

The Wolves are young and need to keep the high reward investments (Brewer & Foye) and don't want to give up the "sure thing" investments unless it brings back another high reward type guy.

This is about the best analogy I can give you as to how I look at it, I guess.

JBoog35
11-17-2008, 03:00 PM
This team has a couple "potential" pieces to a championship puzzle. Those are Al, Love, Brewer, and Telfair. I say that because on a great team, everyone needs that on the ball perimeter defender, that's Brewer. Everyone needs that steady Back up PG, that's Telfair. Love and Al can handle the Inside game and rebound well, and I see great potential with Love in the pick and roll game.

Problems: I'm not sold on Miller, 3 point shooters are great, but I prefer them in the Bowen mold. Play great D and hit the 3, Miller does 1 of 2. I'm not sold on Foye, but I'd love to see him in a pick and roll game like they run in Utah. I think he could excel in that kind of system. Al Jefferson needs to improve his Defense as well. Coaching is an issue as well, Whitt never seems to run any plays in the 4th and his substitutions are horrible.

Everyone on this team has things they need to improve on. We're a young team, but at least I can see a couple of pieces that are good. Who knows, Foye could put it all together, or Carney could suddenly get minutes due to an injury and take over??? All I'm saying is with improvement, there a potentially 4 pieces in place to a championship team, and maybe more if they improve, but this year is going to be about making the players better players.

taijes
11-17-2008, 06:22 PM
No way trade Brewer. That would be a mistake. He's the best defender we've got now, and he is truly fun to watch.

PurpleJesus
11-18-2008, 12:29 AM
only guy on our roster i would trade is McCants,

unless we could get a promising young center, then i would trade anyone with the exception to jefferson

liondragonx5y
11-18-2008, 01:14 AM
We just signed Telfair, Miller is our 2nd best player, and Brewer is as good as a lock to be on this team for the year. These get funnier and funnier.

Why don't we wait a while before we start a firesale?

Young guys with high upside BUILD value, trading only swaps value. We need a plethora of young guys so when a few of them turn into legit starters (hopefully) we build value though them. Trading young pre-matured assets for an older "established" player won't build value for us. The Celtics have 3 big established players but they aren't building value though them, they are declining in value every year. Needless to say the Celtics are at the peak of where they will be and can only go down in value year after year. Us, on the other hand, have tons of young talent which will develop and GAIN value. Whether or not we have more wins than the previous year is irrelevant in this discussion.

Think of the stock market and dividends if you want to relate to to real life. If your a young struggling team, why invest in bonds which will only bring back a "sure thing" 3-4% investment when you can hold onto your stock market portfolio which in time will yield 8-10%? When your young you take the risks to build value quickly since you don't have much to lose, when you grow older you tend to shift from the high risk/return to the lower risk/return to make sure you have the money for retirement. Bonds and low risk investments are recommended by many institutions later in life to keep the value you have earned. (This is just one of many ways people go about investing but like I said, many institutions recommend this thinking)

The Wolves are young and need to keep the high reward investments (Brewer & Foye) and don't want to give up the "sure thing" investments unless it brings back another high reward type guy.

This is about the best analogy I can give you as to how I look at it, I guess.

good point.. that is pretty spot on that concept..

though millions of people right now wish something was a "sure thing" 3% :laugh:

cwilson21
11-18-2008, 01:20 AM
Brewer is very fun to watch jacking up airballs and missing fast break layups. Honestly, he is fun to watch because he's all over the floor but for heaven's sake please work on your game.

WolvesFan08
11-18-2008, 01:22 AM
Lets try and find a way to nabb Biedrins from Golden State :)

WSU Tony
11-18-2008, 01:22 AM
It always goes up in time.

Now is a great time to put money in if you have it.

silverson
11-18-2008, 02:52 AM
Miller is underestimated guys. You say that he made only 4 shots. I say that 80% of our attacks went through his hands. He found 4 opportunities he shot, the rest he progressed the game. It's the thing McHale was saying. Basketball IQ. He has it, the team needs it. He was the one who fed Jefferson the most in the paint.
This team has a good defender in Brewer, a good back up PG in Telfair, 2 good role players in Gomes and Smith. They may not be starter quality but they are important to the team. And they want to be here. You can see it in the way they play.
I am leaning more to the solution of moving Foye back to SG and Miller to SF. Then trade McCants for a young PG. For example Bayless. I haven't looked at trading machines, so I don't know if it's possible. It's just an idea. After that you can take a starting C and even another PG with the drafts and the cap space.
Regarding Foye, I said it again in the Wolves vs. Portland thread, I think we are turning his virtue (that he is a SG capable of creating plays) to a flaw ( a PG prone to TOs).

Rumeye
11-18-2008, 03:07 AM
Brewer is very fun to watch jacking up airballs and missing fast break layups. Honestly, he is fun to watch because he's all over the floor but for heaven's sake please work on your game.

From what I hear from Jim Peterson and Kevin McHale, Brewer works on his game tirelessly. I don't think he missed one voluntary workout or training program, and he was in the Wolves training facility every day in the off-season. The guy is working hard, and that's all you can ask of him.

GOGOGOMEZ08
11-18-2008, 12:23 PM
From what I hear from Jim Peterson and Kevin McHale, Brewer works on his game tirelessly. I don't think he missed one voluntary workout or training program, and he was in the Wolves training facility every day in the off-season. The guy is working hard, and that's all you can ask of him.

not when he is an nba player, you should expect more results when you are getting paid to play a sport. I agree that I'm glad he is working hard and he is a tremendous defender but seriously make a layup.

taijes
11-18-2008, 03:26 PM
Anybody know Flip's number? :p

hyp21
11-19-2008, 12:38 PM
As an outsider looking in (cause I can't see my teams play so I watch the T-Wolves), these guys play good basketball but can't hold a lead to save their lives. That means there's a lack of defensive presence and yes, Wittman is part of that lack and he and McHale do need to go. This team can very well go 1-10 again and I'm sorry, but I dont think many can justify a start like that 2 years in a row and say that those guys shouldn't get the ax. The organization is pretty high on Foye I guess so they should try trading McCants. I really don't see the Wolves being able to obtain a true center to help Al Jeff out so maybe if they can get a good 2 guard like a Jamaal Crawford (19.5 ppg...he's going nowhere fast in NY and could be a star here i believe). That's just one thought. Move Foye maybe a future 1st to NY for Crawford, move Miller to the 3. You'd have a lineup of Telfair/J.Crawford/Miller/Big Al/Love. if ny would do it that is

WSU Tony
11-19-2008, 12:42 PM
The wolves have a potential 4 first round picks in next year's draft, why don't you see them being able to obtain a true center? Did I mention we have tons of money to spend in the off season in the next 2 years?

hyp21
11-19-2008, 12:57 PM
^I'm talking about thru trade as of right now. I don't think they'd be able get one. Unless you guys would be willing to bring Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph I think would probably be all that's available. and they're certainly not worth 1st picks

WSU Tony
11-19-2008, 01:45 PM
^I'm talking about thru trade as of right now. I don't think they'd be able get one. Unless you guys would be willing to bring Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph I think would probably be all that's available. and they're certainly not worth 1st picks

So then we won't trade for one right now.... in a matter of less than 9 months we can draft one. :rolleyes:

Mauersota
11-19-2008, 02:41 PM
So then we won't trade for one right now.... in a matter of less than 9 months we can draft one. :rolleyes:

Do we really want to assume McHale will make the right decision?

WSU Tony
11-19-2008, 02:45 PM
Do we really want to assume McHale will make the right decision?

If it comes to drafting a Big man, I have more faith in McHale than any other scinario we could put him in. Other than that spot, I'm with you as far as confidence level. :p

Mauersota
11-19-2008, 02:48 PM
If it comes to drafting a Big man, I have more faith in McHale than any other scinario we could put him in. Other than that spot, I'm with you as far as confidence level. :p

I can see it now "WOLVES WITH THE #1 PICK TAKE PF BLAKE GRIFFIN!"

WSU Tony
11-19-2008, 02:53 PM
LOL. Did you watch him play last night too? I kept my eyes on him (I don't know why) Curry and Law (UNC PG?)

Can't you see McHale drafting another fricken PF? We have 2 big needs and he'll get another guy he just "has to have." Eventually we'll have our plethora of PF's start playing guard and see what happens. Yikes.

I've come to the conclusion that McHale is here to draft and build and in a year or so he'll be gone. From that point we'll trade some of our young guys who's value has gone up for 5 real starters. McHale is the builder of the program and when enough talent is here we'll acutally find a good coach to teach them to win.

JBoog35
11-19-2008, 03:29 PM
Curry played Amazing as well. I would welcome either, but another PF??? Heck of a game by both though.

Mauersota
11-19-2008, 03:40 PM
Jennings, Rubio, Thabeet, and DeRozan I think are the ones we should look at most heavily right now I would give up all the picks we have to get one of Jennings or Rubio and then either DeRozan or Thabeet. Griffin I guess I would of been fine with if we took Mayo last year, I just worry McHale will want another big man that isn't a legit 7 footer I mean we took two of them last year.

But I think that this needs to be the year where he makes a splash I just worry that talent will start to drop and make it harder for anyone to get higher quality players and if that happens the FA market will be affected to.

WSU Tony
11-19-2008, 04:09 PM
Curry shot like 30 some precent from the field, that's not tremendous and not what the wolves need.

If we could get 1 of Mullens or Thabeet or Jordan (preferably the first two) and 1 of Rubio, Jennings or Holiday by using our top pick and trading our 3 other (maybe) first round picks to a 10-12 spot to pick the other, I'd be happy!

Mullens and Holiday
Rubio and Jordan

Those look realistic if we make the right moves.

ryguy2k7
11-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Honestly...McHale will choose the wrong player for our team no matter what. It's fate. Always has been always will be.

Except KG... that was dumb luck.

Roy > Foye, Mayo+Chalmers > Love + Miller.

Imagine a smart McHale and a lineup with Roy, Mayo and Chalmers. Baller.

IowaAJ
11-19-2008, 04:32 PM
Curry shot like 30 some precent from the field, that's not tremendous and not what the wolves need.

If we could get 1 of Mullens or Thabeet or Jordan (preferably the first two) and 1 of Rubio, Jennings or Holiday by using our top pick and trading our 3 other (maybe) first round picks to a 10-12 spot to pick the other, I'd be happy!

Mullens and Holiday
Rubio and Jordan

Those look realistic if we make the right moves.


I would love to see Curry in a Twolves uniform. I think he is probably the best scoring guard in the country. What he did last year in the NCAA tournament and yeah he shot 30% but he still scored 30 points and almost brought his team all the way back. If we could add Curry and a Center with all the picks we have I think we could improve a lot but I would still like to see improvement this year.

This is a very important year because we will see Foye play a lot of minutes and will give us a good idea on if he can be a good player and part of our future. Also Brewer has already showed he has improved plus we will also find out if Love and Jefferson can play together. I think this year will tell us a lot about what this team will do in the future.