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Lost Art
11-11-2008, 01:28 PM
As we know, Tim Duncan has often been thought of as the ultimate winner. His teams have always been near the top of the league and he has always gotten a lot of credit for his team's success despite having a consistently stacked lineup. Now this season with Manu Ginobili injured, and now Tony Parker as well, he's getting a taste of what it's like to be on a team where the success of the team falls solely on his shoulders. If he doesn't have a huge night, they're not going to win.........simple as that. They've started out 1-4 and things don't look to improve for quite some time with his two sidekicks scheduled to be out for quite some time. So the question is, how far will they fall? How long before Duncan starts trying to put this team on his back and starts putting up monster numbers? Can he keep them playing 0.500 basketball until Ginobili and Parker return? This is the first time in Duncan's career that he hasn't played on a team with a lot of help, it will be interesting to see how he responds.

Just so you know, this isn't a bash Tim Duncan thread..........cause he's one of my favorite players and I think he's the best PF of all time. The purpose of this thread is to show those of you who bashed players like Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade for their lack of success in years prior that nobody can do it all by themselves. Tim Duncan is always used as the example of leadership, success, and the ultimate winner. But this just goes to show that nobody can win without help and a leader is only a good as the teammates that he has around him. Some players in the NBA just aren't blessed with a good supporting cast, and that alone can drastically change how that player is perceived by us fans, the media, and the league as a whole. I remember a lot of people in the past saying "put Duncan on _______ team and they'd easily be a top 4 team in the NBA" which I always thought was bogus. IMO a crap team is a crap team and no one player can turn a bottom feeder into a true contender. I just think it is interesting how much a players reputation is dependent on the help that he has around him. Granted, once a player does have a sufficient supporting cast they need to utilize it and take advantage..........but many players just aren't in situations where it is possible to win and I think that Duncan is in that situation right now for the first time in his career.

I also think we'll see Duncan start putting up more shots and bigger numbers, which shows that its not selfish to put a team on your back and try to will them to a win...........its necessary. So if you have Duncan on your fantasy team this should be a great time for you. I don't think he'll let them slide too far before he decides it's time to take matters into his own hands...........or at least for the sake of the Spurs and their fans, I hope not.

Anyway, I thought I'd share my two cents on the Duncan situation and how I see it relating to how we've perceived players and situations in the past. Any thoughts?

wolf3742
11-11-2008, 01:37 PM
Looking at the Spurs roster. Even if duncan put on a monster performance, his team might still loose. During the manu sideline, duncan has been a monster both in rebounds and points but still keep on loosing. It is just that the players around here are really not that good. Like what I read in one of SI's areticle the Spurs is now left with Duncan and players from YMCA. That is how bad the situation is with the Spurs

Raidaz4Life
11-11-2008, 01:40 PM
Tim Duncan is not the best PF of all time! argh!

Lost Art
11-11-2008, 02:27 PM
Looking at the Spurs roster. Even if duncan put on a monster performance, his team might still loose. During the manu sideline, duncan has been a monster both in rebounds and points but still keep on loosing. It is just that the players around here are really not that good. Like what I read in one of SI's areticle the Spurs is now left with Duncan and players from YMCA. That is how bad the situation is with the Spurs

This is exactly my point. Was it possible for Kobe to win with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, and Smush Parker in the starting lineup? Was it possible to win for Dwyane Wade with an old fat Shaq, Antoine Walker, and White Chocolate in the starting 5? Did that stop people from bashing these two relentlessly? No. It's all about the TEAM, people didn't seem to realize that in years past.

JordansBulls
11-11-2008, 02:32 PM
As we know, Tim Duncan has often been thought of as the ultimate winner. His teams have always been near the top of the league and he has always gotten a lot of credit for his team's success despite having a consistently stacked lineup. Now this season with Manu Ginobili injured, and now Tony Parker as well, he's getting a taste of what it's like to be on a team where the success of the team falls solely on his shoulders. If he doesn't have a huge night, they're not going to win.........simple as that. They've started out 1-4 and things don't look to improve for quite some time with his two sidekicks scheduled to be out for quite some time. So the question is, how far will they fall? How long before Duncan starts trying to put this team on his back and starts putting up monster numbers? Can he keep them playing 0.500 basketball until Ginobili and Parker return? This is the first time in Duncan's career that he hasn't played on a team with a lot of help, it will be interesting to see how he responds.

Just so you know, this isn't a bash Tim Duncan thread..........cause he's one of my favorite players and I think he's the best PF of all time. The purpose of this thread is to show those of you who bashed players like Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade for their lack of success in years prior that nobody can do it all by themselves. Tim Duncan is always used as the example of leadership, success, and the ultimate winner. But this just goes to show that nobody can win without help and a leader is only a good as the teammates that he has around him. Some players in the NBA just aren't blessed with a good supporting cast, and that alone can drastically change how that player is perceived by us fans, the media, and the league as a whole. I remember a lot of people in the past saying "put Duncan on _______ team and they'd easily be a top 4 team in the NBA" which I always thought was bogus. IMO a crap team is a crap team and no one player can turn a bottom feeder into a true contender. I just think it is interesting how much a players reputation is dependent on the help that he has around him. Granted, once a player does have a sufficient supporting cast they need to utilize it and take advantage..........but many players just aren't in situations where it is possible to win and I think that Duncan is in that situation right now for the first time in his career.

I also think we'll see Duncan start putting up more shots and bigger numbers, which shows that its not selfish to put a team on your back and try to will them to a win...........its necessary. So if you have Duncan on your fantasy team this should be a great time for you. I don't think he'll let them slide too far before he decides it's time to take matters into his own hands...........or at least for the sake of the Spurs and their fans, I hope not.

Anyway, I thought I'd share my two cents on the Duncan situation and how I see it relating to how we've perceived players and situations in the past. Any thoughts?

I wrote this in another post.

John Havilicek once said IIRC: "Everyone needs talent to win, however everyone doesn't win with talent"

Lost Art
11-11-2008, 02:36 PM
I wrote this in another post.

John Havilicek once said IIRC: "Everyone needs talent to win, however everyone doesn't win with talent"

You used to give Kobe crap for not winning too and always pulled out the Duncan reference :confused:

.........but that quote from Havilicek is on the money

MoBASS
11-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Tim Duncan is not the best PF of all time! argh!

You are ridiculous. Who's a better power forward?

Karl Malone? Charles Barkley? LOL

JordansBulls
11-11-2008, 06:02 PM
You used to give Kobe crap for not winning too and always pulled out the Duncan reference :confused:

.........but that quote from Havilicek is on the money

Because Duncan has actually proven that he can win as the best player and has done so that is why.

SteveNash
11-11-2008, 06:03 PM
This is exactly my point. Was it possible for Kobe to win with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, and Smush Parker in the starting lineup? Was it possible to win for Dwyane Wade with an old fat Shaq, Antoine Walker, and White Chocolate in the starting 5? Did that stop people from bashing these two relentlessly? No. It's all about the TEAM, people didn't seem to realize that in years past.

Didn't they steal the championship with Wade, old fat Shaq, Antoine Walker, and Jason Williams?

MilfHunter07
11-11-2008, 06:03 PM
As we know, Tim Duncan has often been thought of as the ultimate winner. His teams have always been near the top of the league and he has always gotten a lot of credit for his team's success despite having a consistently stacked lineup. Now this season with Manu Ginobili injured, and now Tony Parker as well, he's getting a taste of what it's like to be on a team where the success of the team falls solely on his shoulders. If he doesn't have a huge night, they're not going to win.........simple as that. They've started out 1-4 and things don't look to improve for quite some time with his two sidekicks scheduled to be out for quite some time. So the question is, how far will they fall? How long before Duncan starts trying to put this team on his back and starts putting up monster numbers? Can he keep them playing 0.500 basketball until Ginobili and Parker return? This is the first time in Duncan's career that he hasn't played on a team with a lot of help, it will be interesting to see how he responds.

Just so you know, this isn't a bash Tim Duncan thread..........cause he's one of my favorite players and I think he's the best PF of all time. The purpose of this thread is to show those of you who bashed players like Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade for their lack of success in years prior that nobody can do it all by themselves. Tim Duncan is always used as the example of leadership, success, and the ultimate winner. But this just goes to show that nobody can win without help and a leader is only a good as the teammates that he has around him. Some players in the NBA just aren't blessed with a good supporting cast, and that alone can drastically change how that player is perceived by us fans, the media, and the league as a whole. I remember a lot of people in the past saying "put Duncan on _______ team and they'd easily be a top 4 team in the NBA" which I always thought was bogus. IMO a crap team is a crap team and no one player can turn a bottom feeder into a true contender. I just think it is interesting how much a players reputation is dependent on the help that he has around him. Granted, once a player does have a sufficient supporting cast they need to utilize it and take advantage..........but many players just aren't in situations where it is possible to win and I think that Duncan is in that situation right now for the first time in his career.

I also think we'll see Duncan start putting up more shots and bigger numbers, which shows that its not selfish to put a team on your back and try to will them to a win...........its necessary. So if you have Duncan on your fantasy team this should be a great time for you. I don't think he'll let them slide too far before he decides it's time to take matters into his own hands...........or at least for the sake of the Spurs and their fans, I hope not.

Anyway, I thought I'd share my two cents on the Duncan situation and how I see it relating to how we've perceived players and situations in the past. Any thoughts?

Well said. :clap:

_Supreme_
11-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Didn't they outhustle, outsmart and outplay Dallas and their flawed game plan on all fronts to win the championship with Wade, old fat Shaq, Antoine Walker, and Jason Williams?

Fixed that for you ;)

Lakersfan2483
11-11-2008, 06:12 PM
As we know, Tim Duncan has often been thought of as the ultimate winner. His teams have always been near the top of the league and he has always gotten a lot of credit for his team's success despite having a consistently stacked lineup. Now this season with Manu Ginobili injured, and now Tony Parker as well, he's getting a taste of what it's like to be on a team where the success of the team falls solely on his shoulders. If he doesn't have a huge night, they're not going to win.........simple as that. They've started out 1-4 and things don't look to improve for quite some time with his two sidekicks scheduled to be out for quite some time. So the question is, how far will they fall? How long before Duncan starts trying to put this team on his back and starts putting up monster numbers? Can he keep them playing 0.500 basketball until Ginobili and Parker return? This is the first time in Duncan's career that he hasn't played on a team with a lot of help, it will be interesting to see how he responds.

Just so you know, this isn't a bash Tim Duncan thread..........cause he's one of my favorite players and I think he's the best PF of all time. The purpose of this thread is to show those of you who bashed players like Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade for their lack of success in years prior that nobody can do it all by themselves. Tim Duncan is always used as the example of leadership, success, and the ultimate winner. But this just goes to show that nobody can win without help and a leader is only a good as the teammates that he has around him. Some players in the NBA just aren't blessed with a good supporting cast, and that alone can drastically change how that player is perceived by us fans, the media, and the league as a whole. I remember a lot of people in the past saying "put Duncan on _______ team and they'd easily be a top 4 team in the NBA" which I always thought was bogus. IMO a crap team is a crap team and no one player can turn a bottom feeder into a true contender. I just think it is interesting how much a players reputation is dependent on the help that he has around him. Granted, once a player does have a sufficient supporting cast they need to utilize it and take advantage..........but many players just aren't in situations where it is possible to win and I think that Duncan is in that situation right now for the first time in his career.

I also think we'll see Duncan start putting up more shots and bigger numbers, which shows that its not selfish to put a team on your back and try to will them to a win...........its necessary. So if you have Duncan on your fantasy team this should be a great time for you. I don't think he'll let them slide too far before he decides it's time to take matters into his own hands...........or at least for the sake of the Spurs and their fans, I hope not.

Anyway, I thought I'd share my two cents on the Duncan situation and how I see it relating to how we've perceived players and situations in the past. Any thoughts?

Well said, this is actually one of the best threads I have read in quite sometime. Duncan is in a difficult situation for the first time in his career, he's in a situation similar to the situation that players like, Kobe and D. Wade were in a few yrs. ago. As you mentioned in your thread, it doesn't matter how great you are, if you have an average roster, you won't be in the hunt.... Hopefully, Tim can hold down the fort until Tony and Manu get back.

IndyRealist
11-11-2008, 06:14 PM
Duncan's teams haven't really been stacked, outside of having Robinson that first year. The most recent championship incarnation, with Ginoboli, Parker, Duncan, and Barry, had those four players accounting for almost all the Spurs wins. Barry's gone, Ginoboli's injured, and now Parker's out. Without Manu and Brent they were down probably 40% of their production, and now without Parker a good 70% of their normal efficiency is gone. That is not a stacked team, that is a team with three superior players. While that has proven to be a winning combination, when one or more go down, it gets ugly. Fast.

_Supreme_
11-11-2008, 06:14 PM
All those other players still had a lot better supporting casts left than what Duncan has without Parker and Manu though.

Combine the age of the Spurs and the injuries, and I think Duncan will indeed be very lonely out there, unfortunately.

Lakersfan2483
11-11-2008, 06:19 PM
Because Duncan has actually proven that he can win as the best player and has done so that is why.

Tim Duncan is one of my favorite players, but you have to admit this is a test for him. I am curious to see if he can keep his team playing .500 ball until Parker gets back.

#1Mavericksfan
11-11-2008, 06:25 PM
I just hope the Spurs don't try to tank there season just so they could get a top 10 pick like they did when David Robinson was hurt, then they picked Tim Duncan in the draft and the rest is history.

I Don't think Duncan will be loney for long because I was reading something about the Spurs seeing if Ginobili could come back before December, so Duncan might not be loney for long.

Raidaz4Life
11-11-2008, 06:27 PM
You are ridiculous. Who's a better power forward?

Karl Malone? Charles Barkley? LOL

Malone easily and yes even Barkley was better

JermanJaysFan
11-11-2008, 06:40 PM
I see your point, and I myself am very curious to see what happens. I think Duncan will do well, though. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a few 30/20 nights while those guys are out.