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Kiss Ma Grits
11-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Since Lebron has entered the nba there has been question marks concerning the talent around him. Well his team is averaging 99.6 points thru the first seven games of this young season and at least 3 other players are averaging double digit numbers and Daniel Gibson is .6 under 10 with an average of 9.4. The Cavs have made large runs with Lebron on the bench (Refer to both games against the Bulls and one game against the Mavericks IN DALLAS). It's a long season folks and things could change fast but barring any major injuries there are no excuses for Lebron as far as having talent around him.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2008, 11:03 PM
Mo Williams is all right I guess, but Big Z has declined big time, and what help does he have outside a few role players? He is still surrounded by not much talent. Sorry.

madiaz3
11-09-2008, 11:08 PM
Since Lebron has entered the nba there has been question marks concerning the talent around him. Well his team is averaging 99.6 points thru the first seven games of this young season and at least 3 other players are averaging double digit numbers and Daniel Gibson is .06 under 10 with an average of 9.4. The Cavs have made large runs with Lebron on the bench (Refer to both games against the Bulls and one game against the Mavericks IN DALLAS). It's a long season folks and things could change fast but barring any major injuries there are no excuses for Lebron as far as having talent around him.

You mean he's .6 lol.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-09-2008, 11:12 PM
Z has declined? His averages don't seem to think so. A player hasn't declined until his numbers start to drop drastically and if you look at z's numbers this year so far and his numbers of last year you'll see that they're actually up lol. So tell me how Z has declined again?

Kiss Ma Grits
11-09-2008, 11:13 PM
You mean he's .6 lol.
thanks for the correction lmao

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-09-2008, 11:15 PM
He has talent around him. Not super star talent though. Usually, a team needs at least 2 players of very high skill level. Lebron has a very good defensive team around him though. A.I. got the Sixers to the finals with a similar type team, I think Lebron can do that again and have a real chance to win.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-09-2008, 11:22 PM
He has talent around him. Not super star talent though. Usually, a team needs at least 2 players of very high skill level. Lebron has a very good defensive team around him though. A.I. got the Sixers to the finals with a similar type team, I think Lebron can do that again and have a real chance to win.

I agree with alot of what you said but whenever you have almost guys averaging double figures (Lebron, Mo, Delonte, and Z. Gibson fell short at 9.4) it really shows that your playing TEAM ball. Those numbers also show that he has help now and that on any night any one of those guys could step up and score more then their ppg averages.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2008, 11:22 PM
Z has declined? His averages don't seem to think so. A player hasn't declined until his numbers start to drop drastically and if you look at z's numbers this year so far and his numbers of last year you'll see that they're actually up lol. So tell me how Z has declined again?

oh, I don't know, I have only watched 4 of their games. He gets less minutes, he can't rebound, and can't guard anyone. Listen, when your second leading scorer is Big Z, your team is not talented. Are you a LeBron hater wanting him to fail? Do you really think he has the talent around him similar to Kobe Bryant?????? If you do, check yourself.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2008, 11:24 PM
He has talent around him. Not super star talent though. Usually, a team needs at least 2 players of very high skill level. Lebron has a very good defensive team around him though. A.I. got the Sixers to the finals with a similar type team, I think Lebron can do that again and have a real chance to win.

kind of agree. In order to win it all, you need 2 all stars, the Pistons being the only exception, and they set all sorts of standards for exceptions. You need 2 all stars, vets who need it, and a great bench. Cleveland has none of these. Whatever success Cleveland has is simply because LeBron is the best player in the world

tru
11-09-2008, 11:33 PM
lebron aint that good, get off his nuts

SAVAGE CLAW
11-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Talent?

Lets see

Center : Ilgauskas, Better starting centers than him Now? JO*,Dalembert,Randolph*,Okafor*,Horford*,Dwight,Sh eed*,Bogut,Bynum,Shaq,Biedrins*,Miller,Kaman,Ming, Chandler,Nene. So...Top... 17......

Power F: Worn Out Wallace is not better than these starters: Bosh,Garnett,Brand,Lee,M Williams,Lewis*,Beasley,Jamison*,Gooden,Pau,Camby* ,Stou,Dirk,TD,West,Aldrige,Boozer,Wilcox So top....... 18 and that not having on account "reserves" as ODOM.

SG: Pfff Scerbiak...Here we Go....:Parker,Allen,Iggy,Crawford,Richardson,Joe J,Turkoglu*,Wade,Deshawn,Redd,Gordon,Rip,Kobe,Mart in,Jackson,Diaw,OJ,Peterson,T-mac,Terry*,Finley,Roy,Jr,Brewer,Mike Miller..... so top 26.... forgetttign abotu rserves such as Manu, Rudy Fernandez or Barbosa.......

PG: Williams is not better than: Calderon,Devin Harris,Miller,Bibby,Arenas,Rose,Tj Ford,Iverson*,Baron D,Nash, C Paul, Tony Parker, Kidd,Deron,Billups. so top 16....


So you call a top 16 second option a top 17 third Option and a top 26 third option with a top 18 final starter help?????????

I wonder what would happen if you just Took Lebron and changed his place with Either T-mac or Kobe.....





* Players that are currently playing out of their natural position.

Lebron23
11-09-2008, 11:39 PM
All i can say that LeBron James always owned the Chicago Bulls in the regular season.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2008, 11:41 PM
Talent?

Lets see

Center : Ilgauskas, Better starting centers than him Now? JO*,Dalembert,Randolph*,Okafor*,Horford*,Dwight,Sh eed*,Bogut,Bynum,Shaq,Biedrins*,Miller,Kaman,Ming, Chandler,Nene. So...Top... 17......

Power F: Worn Out Wallace is not better than these starters: Bosh,Garnett,Brand,Lee,M Williams,Lewis*,Beasley,Jamison*,Gooden,Pau,Camby* ,Stou,Dirk,TD,West,Aldrige,Boozer,Wilcox So top....... 18 and that not having on account "reserves" as ODOM.

SG: Pfff Scerbiak...Here we Go....:Parker,Allen,Iggy,Crawford,Richardson,Joe J,Turkoglu*,Wade,Deshawn,Redd,Gordon,Rip,Kobe,Mart in,Jackson,Diaw,OJ,Peterson,T-mac,Terry*,Finley,Roy,Jr,Brewer,Mike Miller..... so top 26.... forgetttign abotu rserves such as Manu, Rudy Fernandez or Barbosa.......

PG: Williams is not better than: Calderon,Devin Harris,Miller,Bibby,Arenas,Rose,Tj Ford,Iverson*,Baron D,Nash, C Paul, Tony Parker, Kidd,Deron,Billups. so top 16....


So you call a top 16 second option a top 17 third Option and a top 26 third option with a top 18 final starter help?????????

I wonder what would happen if you just Took Lebron and changed his place with Either T-mac or Kobe.....





* Players that are currently playing out of their natural position.


While I am totally agreeing with you, left out Big Al Jefferson. Sorry, gotta stick up for my boy.

SteveNash
11-09-2008, 11:51 PM
I challenge anyone to make better moves than Danny Ferry has with the Cavs. The talent has been brought in, they just fail to live up to expectations as soon as they come to the Cavs.


Talent?

Lets see

Center : Ilgauskas, Better starting centers than him Now? JO*,Dalembert,Randolph*,Okafor*,Horford*,Dwight,Sh eed*,Bogut,Bynum,Shaq,Biedrins*,Miller,Kaman,Ming, Chandler,Nene. So...Top... 17......

Power F: Worn Out Wallace is not better than these starters: Bosh,Garnett,Brand,Lee,M Williams,Lewis*,Beasley,Jamison*,Gooden,Pau,Camby* ,Stou,Dirk,TD,West,Aldrige,Boozer,Wilcox So top....... 18 and that not having on account "reserves" as ODOM.

SG: Pfff Scerbiak...Here we Go....:Parker,Allen,Iggy,Crawford,Richardson,Joe J,Turkoglu*,Wade,Deshawn,Redd,Gordon,Rip,Kobe,Mart in,Jackson,Diaw,OJ,Peterson,T-mac,Terry*,Finley,Roy,Jr,Brewer,Mike Miller..... so top 26.... forgetttign abotu rserves such as Manu, Rudy Fernandez or Barbosa.......

PG: Williams is not better than: Calderon,Devin Harris,Miller,Bibby,Arenas,Rose,Tj Ford,Iverson*,Baron D,Nash, C Paul, Tony Parker, Kidd,Deron,Billups. so top 16....


So you call a top 16 second option a top 17 third Option and a top 26 third option with a top 18 final starter help?????????

I wonder what would happen if you just Took Lebron and changed his place with Either T-mac or Kobe.....





* Players that are currently playing out of their natural position.

Cavs have one of the best frontcourt rotation in the NBA. Quality PG play with Mo, Delonte, and Booby. SG is there weakest area, but they have combo guards and it's not like Wally is terrible, just overpaid for what he does.

SAVAGE CLAW
11-09-2008, 11:54 PM
While I am totally agreeing with you, left out Big Al Jefferson. Sorry, gotta stick up for my boy.

Yes you are true, i just forgot, is hard to remind from the top of your head 150 starters....

Hawkeye15
11-09-2008, 11:58 PM
Yes you are true, i just forgot, is hard to remind from the top of your head 150 starters....

true dat

cmstophe
11-10-2008, 12:01 AM
I like Lebron's supporting cast. They play good defense, are scrappy and can keep a lead going (finally) when Lebron is on the bench getting a breather.

barreleffact
11-10-2008, 12:43 AM
Lebron, like many, needs a low post threat that can command double teams and get you 20 and 10. He has sooters around him, so a post threat would get him a serious edge over most others....say...BOSH???? lol...na, i think he needs a center

philab
11-10-2008, 01:20 AM
oh, I don't know, I have only watched 4 of their games. He gets less minutes, he can't rebound, and can't guard anyone. Listen, when your second leading scorer is Big Z, your team is not talented. Are you a LeBron hater wanting him to fail? Do you really think he has the talent around him similar to Kobe Bryant?????? If you do, check yourself.


Z's getting less minutes to preserve him for the playoffs, sort of like the Suns are doing with Shaq. I wouldn't trash Z too much; he's a solid player and a dying breed. He's no Pippen, certainly not a superstar, and not the ideal complement to LeBron, but he's no slouch.

The Cavaliers certainly have the best supporting cast around LeBron since he's been here. That's really undeniable. They also have a versatile supporting cast, capable of playing big or small, running the fast break or half-court, rocking the 3ball or going down low . . .

Still, it's no Gasol, Bynum, Radman, etc. . . .

I like this team so far, but who knows how it will turn out. The consensus is still that Wally is heading out by the deadline. Whatever deal is made should only make the team better (or else it won't be made).

Basically, though, I think the Cavaliers finally have a team capable of winning it all. This doesn't mean they're the favorites (or anywhere near it) or that they will -- just that it's possible.

Lakers and Celtics are still the teams to beat, with New Orleans and Detroit looking hungry, too. I can't really see any teams outside of those five making the Finals unless somehow the Spurs get healthy and going in a hurry once Ginobli and Parker return.

LeBrowns
11-10-2008, 01:31 AM
Talent?

Lets see

Center : Ilgauskas, Better starting centers than him Now? JO*,Dalembert,Randolph*,Okafor*,Horford*,Dwight,Sh eed*,Bogut,Bynum,Shaq,Biedrins*,Miller,Kaman,Ming, Chandler,Nene. So...Top... 17......

Power F: Worn Out Wallace is not better than these starters: Bosh,Garnett,Brand,Lee,M Williams,Lewis*,Beasley,Jamison*,Gooden,Pau,Camby* ,Stou,Dirk,TD,West,Aldrige,Boozer,Wilcox So top....... 18 and that not having on account "reserves" as ODOM.

SG: Pfff Scerbiak...Here we Go....:Parker,Allen,Iggy,Crawford,Richardson,Joe J,Turkoglu*,Wade,Deshawn,Redd,Gordon,Rip,Kobe,Mart in,Jackson,Diaw,OJ,Peterson,T-mac,Terry*,Finley,Roy,Jr,Brewer,Mike Miller..... so top 26.... forgetttign abotu rserves such as Manu, Rudy Fernandez or Barbosa.......

PG: Williams is not better than: Calderon,Devin Harris,Miller,Bibby,Arenas,Rose,Tj Ford,Iverson*,Baron D,Nash, C Paul, Tony Parker, Kidd,Deron,Billups. so top 16....


So you call a top 16 second option a top 17 third Option and a top 26 third option with a top 18 final starter help?????????

I wonder what would happen if you just Took Lebron and changed his place with Either T-mac or Kobe.....





* Players that are currently playing out of their natural position.

I agree with most of that besides PG. TJ Ford, Bibby, Miller, Harris? Really?

As far as everything else, the cavs really don't have a great bigman which is where McDyess could help heal the wound. Z has become a more of a jumpshooting center and spends less time inside as well as Ben Wallace not ever having a good offensive game to begin with. If McDyess goes back to Detroit its the hope that the Cavs can pickup a bigman at the deadlien with Szerbiaks enormous exp contract. He doesn't have the Shaq or Pippen that Kobe Wade and Jordan did.

Lakers4ItAll
11-10-2008, 08:07 AM
Lebron still has no help....

LakerzDQ
11-10-2008, 08:27 AM
Lebron's got no real help. Mo Williams is nice, Zydrunas is alright, Ben Wallace is still pretty active, but compared to the supporting casts of many playoff teams, it's nothing.

JayW_1023
11-10-2008, 08:52 AM
^^^

I agree, when your second most reliable player is Delonte West I'd say your team still has alot of holes. LeBron is still why the Cavs are competitive...without him, The Cavs are worse than the Thunder.

Lakerfan8032
11-10-2008, 09:19 AM
The rest of the team is not good enough, not even close, to being a good enough supporting cast to help LeBron win a championship. Dumb thread. He truly needs more help. You remove James from that team and they would challenge the '73 76ers (may be off by a year) for the worst record in NBA history. I'm surprised they do well enough to go deep in the playoffs. That is more a compliment on James than anything good from the rest of the team. He's just that good.

sixer04fan
11-10-2008, 09:55 AM
lebron definitely does not have the help he needs yet... in my opinion the rest of the team is pretty horrible (mo williams or not)

JayW_1023
11-10-2008, 12:08 PM
Something tells me Cleveland went after the wrong Bucks guard...Ramon Sessions would probably alot more valuable to Cleveland now than Mo Williams, not to mention alot cheaper.

Maybe Sessions was the reason Milwaukee wanted to let Williams go in the first place. That probably is more likely.

cmstophe
11-10-2008, 01:29 PM
The rest of the team is not good enough, not even close, to being a good enough supporting cast to help LeBron win a championship. Dumb thread. He truly needs more help. You remove James from that team and they would challenge the '73 76ers (may be off by a year) for the worst record in NBA history. I'm surprised they do well enough to go deep in the playoffs. That is more a compliment on James than anything good from the rest of the team. He's just that good.

He got to the Finals with a team that was much much much much much worse.

So, I can't agree. Sorry.

tru
11-10-2008, 06:53 PM
Lebron still has no help....



you think chris paul has more help than james??? maybe yall are overrating his soft ***

JIDsanity
11-10-2008, 07:02 PM
He doesn't have great talent, its better than what he had

chicagowhitesox
11-10-2008, 07:04 PM
his team still sucks. adding mo williams does not instantly make the cavs a good surrounding team. z is old. they're bench is terrible. boobie is average. if you replace lebron with virtually any other small forward in the nba, they would be a god awful team. but with him, they're contenders for the east.

Faneik
11-10-2008, 07:07 PM
you think chris paul has more help than james??? maybe yall are overrating his soft ***

West, Chandler and Peja are proven solid players.

tru
11-10-2008, 07:19 PM
West, Chandler and Peja are proven solid players.

williams and sczerbiak are more than proven "solid" players, illgauskus has been to the all-star game and wallace is a 3 time defensive player of the year, west and varajeo are also "solid" players, sorry you have NO point...............maybe just maybe if you guys took your heads out of lebrons *** for a minute you would see that he's just another iverson, no matter how good he is or how many points he scores........he's not a winner and will never hold that trophy, sorry to all lebron nut riders but he's got plenty of help

Lebron23
11-10-2008, 07:19 PM
How can you say that LeBron is soft? He just totally owned your favorite team last week. Back to back 41 points performance againts the Chicago Bulls.

G-Funk
11-10-2008, 07:31 PM
He's in Kobe's postion a year ago. he has the role players. he just needs that PF to be a contender.

G-Funk
11-10-2008, 07:33 PM
williams and sczerbiak are more than proven "solid" players, illgauskus has been to the all-star game and wallace is a 3 time defensive player of the year, west and varajeo are also "solid" players, sorry you have NO point...............maybe just maybe if you guys took your heads out of lebrons *** for a minute you would see that he's just another iverson, no matter how good he is or how many points he scores........he's not a winner and will never hold that trophy, sorry to all lebron nut riders but he's got plenty of help

Good point.

Lebron23
11-10-2008, 07:42 PM
Good point.

That is an idiot point. Only Shaq and Duncan has proven that they can win multiple NBA Championships rings in this decade as the no.1 options of their respective teams.

@Tru


I don't think this loser is watching the Cavaliers in the last 2 years because Wallace, and Wally are no longer in the prime of their NBA Career that's why they got traded to the Cavs last year.

Wally is no longer our starting SG because he's a horrible defender. Cavs management are going to trade him before the NBA Trading Deadline.

You are not even a real Bulls fan because Wallace was struggling when he played for your team, and he's no longer the same dominant Center that was a 4 time NBA Defensive Player of the Year.

Ilgauskas and Williams are playing consistently in the regular season, and they are averaging 16 ppg, and 14.1 ppg respectively, that's a good sign that the Cavaliers are having a good team chemistry with LeBron James leading their team in scoring, assists, and rebounds per game.

Faneik
11-10-2008, 07:42 PM
williams and sczerbiak are more than proven "solid" players, illgauskus has been to the all-star game and wallace is a 3 time defensive player of the year, west and varajeo are also "solid" players, sorry you have NO point...............maybe just maybe if you guys took your heads out of lebrons *** for a minute you would see that he's just another iverson, no matter how good he is or how many points he scores........he's not a winner and will never hold that trophy, sorry to all lebron nut riders but he's got plenty of help

1st of all, chill man! You're way too upset! Quit the steroids.

Instead of solid I should have used good players, starter material.

Sczerbiak and wallace are done.

Paul>>>>Williams
Mo Peterson=Delonte West
Peja<<<<<Lebron
West>>>Wallace or Varejao
Chandler>>Ilgauskas

Chris Paul has a better supporting cast than Lebron, that's all I was saying.

Lebron23
11-10-2008, 07:46 PM
1st of all, chill man! You're way too upset! Quit the steroids.

Instead of solid I should have used good players, starter material.

Sczerbiak and wallace are done.

Paul>>>>Williams
Mo Peterson=Delonte West
Peja<<<<<Lebron
West>>>Wallace or Varejao
Chandler>>Ilgauskas

Chris Paul has a better supporting cast than Lebron, that's all I was saying.


Good Point :clap::clap::clap:

Lakersfan2483
11-10-2008, 08:11 PM
Since Lebron has entered the nba there has been question marks concerning the talent around him. Well his team is averaging 99.6 points thru the first seven games of this young season and at least 3 other players are averaging double digit numbers and Daniel Gibson is .6 under 10 with an average of 9.4. The Cavs have made large runs with Lebron on the bench (Refer to both games against the Bulls and one game against the Mavericks IN DALLAS). It's a long season folks and things could change fast but barring any major injuries there are no excuses for Lebron as far as having talent around him.

He has decent talent around him, but he still needs another big time performer to help him. He needs a better low post player and or a better shooting guard. If the Cavs were out west, they would struggle to make it to the 7th or 8th seed.

JordansBulls
11-10-2008, 09:01 PM
Talent?

Lets see

Center : Ilgauskas, Better starting centers than him Now? JO*,Dalembert,Randolph*,Okafor*,Horford*,Dwight,Sh eed*,Bogut,Bynum,Shaq,Biedrins*,Miller,Kaman,Ming, Chandler,Nene. So...Top... 17......

Power F: Worn Out Wallace is not better than these starters: Bosh,Garnett,Brand,Lee,M Williams,Lewis*,Beasley,Jamison*,Gooden,Pau,Camby* ,Stou,Dirk,TD,West,Aldrige,Boozer,Wilcox So top....... 18 and that not having on account "reserves" as ODOM.

SG: Pfff Scerbiak...Here we Go....:Parker,Allen,Iggy,Crawford,Richardson,Joe J,Turkoglu*,Wade,Deshawn,Redd,Gordon,Rip,Kobe,Mart in,Jackson,Diaw,OJ,Peterson,T-mac,Terry*,Finley,Roy,Jr,Brewer,Mike Miller..... so top 26.... forgetttign abotu rserves such as Manu, Rudy Fernandez or Barbosa.......

PG: Williams is not better than: Calderon,Devin Harris,Miller,Bibby,Arenas,Rose,Tj Ford,Iverson*,Baron D,Nash, C Paul, Tony Parker, Kidd,Deron,Billups. so top 16....


So you call a top 16 second option a top 17 third Option and a top 26 third option with a top 18 final starter help?????????

I wonder what would happen if you just Took Lebron and changed his place with Either T-mac or Kobe.....





* Players that are currently playing out of their natural position.

:speechless:

cb4#1fan
11-10-2008, 09:03 PM
james hmmm

Lakers4ItAll
11-10-2008, 09:16 PM
I agree




Sczerbiak and wallace are done.

Paul>>>>Williams
Mo Peterson=Delonte West
Peja<<<<<Lebron
West>>>Wallace or Varejao
Chandler>>Ilgauskas

Chris Paul has a better supporting cast than Lebron, that's all I was saying.

LeBrowns
11-10-2008, 11:27 PM
1st of all, chill man! You're way too upset! Quit the steroids.

Instead of solid I should have used good players, starter material.

Sczerbiak and wallace are done.

Paul>>>>Williams
Mo Peterson=Delonte West
Peja<<<<<Lebron
West>>>Wallace or Varejao
Chandler>>Ilgauskas

Chris Paul has a better supporting cast than Lebron, that's all I was saying.

I agree with pretty much all of this, at center Z is probably more offensively gifted but Chandler is a beast on the boards.

SAVAGE CLAW
11-11-2008, 01:22 AM
Whats so surprising Jordanbulls?

dannyy08
11-11-2008, 01:48 AM
. . . Correction. We will see if he can get to the finals. He is already a really good player. Almost went to the finals at least twice with garbage. Tired of people saying, now we will see how good he is. Tune into TNT man, he is already great.

arlubas
11-11-2008, 03:09 AM
In order for lebron to be succesful (and by that I mean win a title cause that's how high the bar is for him) he must get at least one more all star on his team. And I'm not talking washed up all stars like Ben Wallace, Ilgauskas or have beens like Hughes in the past. He needs some guy that is playing at an all star level right now and not 4 years ago to take some of the pressure off him and also get the ball in critical situations near the end of games. Lebron is a beast but he can't do it all on himself which is what the Cavs seem to be thinking.

Another thing that has strike me is that the Cavs FO for some reason believe putting scoring guards around Lebron is gonna get this team over the hill. while adding such players ain't bad by any means it doesn't really make the Cavs a valid contender either. The thought of Lebron having great court vision and wanting to share the rock therefor he needs scorers around him should just stop now. The Cavs need a guy that will also be a pain in the arse for oppossing coaches and that don't mean just scoring buckets but also play defense, grab the occasional offensive board and help team chemistry out.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-11-2008, 01:58 PM
It puzzles me when people say "He needs another star beside him" after watching an 4-0 Pistons team trade for a player who is individually is better then Billups in Allen Iverson only to drop 2 straight and watching their team ppg take a nose dive suggests that adding an all star doesn't always result in good results. How about Philly? How has Brand helped them? I mean they added a star player to a supporting cast that went to the playoffs the year before only to start the season off 2-4 and Toronto don't look much better. YET with all these supposedly mediocre players that play in Cleveland they STILL managed to get off to an 5-2 start which could have easily been 7-0 if not for Lebron turning the ball over in both loses at Boston and New Orleans. CONTINUITY is very important and until most of yall start to understand that, you'll stay scratching your heads when sub-proven teams trade for all stars who don't improve them like you all thought they would. Look, I'm going to enjoy my teams solid start and continue reading the nonsense that most of you type.

arlubas
11-11-2008, 06:51 PM
It puzzles me when people say "He needs another star beside him" after watching an 4-0 Pistons team trade for a player who is individually is better then Billups in Allen Iverson only to drop 2 straight and watching their team ppg take a nose dive suggests that adding an all star doesn't always result in good results. How about Philly? How has Brand helped them? I mean they added a star player to a supporting cast that went to the playoffs the year before only to start the season off 2-4 and Toronto don't look much better. YET with all these supposedly mediocre players that play in Cleveland they STILL managed to get off to an 5-2 start which could have easily been 7-0 if not for Lebron turning the ball over in both loses at Boston and New Orleans. CONTINUITY is very important and until most of yall start to understand that, you'll stay scratching your heads when sub-proven teams trade for all stars who don't improve them like you all thought they would. Look, I'm going to enjoy my teams solid start and continue reading the nonsense that most of you type.
While I will agree with what you are saying up to a certain point, I'm pretty sure your post is worthless after the season a team like the Boston Celtics experienced last year.

Getting another all star won't guarantee you a ring. But continuing to throw good role players around Lebron when it is evident year after year that this team doesn't have what it takes to get over the hump is laughable to say the least. That is unless Lebron is satisfied with having some good playoff runs instead of actually contending for the title.

Tblaze
11-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Talent?

Lets see

Center : Ilgauskas, Better starting centers than him Now? JO*,Dalembert,Randolph*,Okafor*,Horford*,Dwight,Sh eed*,Bogut,Bynum,Shaq,Biedrins*,Miller,Kaman,Ming, Chandler,Nene. So...Top... 17......

Power F: Worn Out Wallace is not better than these starters: Bosh,Garnett,Brand,Lee,M Williams,Lewis*,Beasley,Jamison*,Gooden,Pau,Camby* ,Stou,Dirk,TD,West,Aldrige,Boozer,Wilcox So top....... 18 and that not having on account "reserves" as ODOM.

SG: Pfff Scerbiak...Here we Go....:Parker,Allen,Iggy,Crawford,Richardson,Joe J,Turkoglu*,Wade,Deshawn,Redd,Gordon,Rip,Kobe,Mart in,Jackson,Diaw,OJ,Peterson,T-mac,Terry*,Finley,Roy,Jr,Brewer,Mike Miller..... so top 26.... forgetttign abotu rserves such as Manu, Rudy Fernandez or Barbosa.......

PG: Williams is not better than: Calderon,Devin Harris,Miller,Bibby,Arenas,Rose,Tj Ford,Iverson*,Baron D,Nash, C Paul, Tony Parker, Kidd,Deron,Billups. so top 16....


So you call a top 16 second option a top 17 third Option and a top 26 third option with a top 18 final starter help?????????

I wonder what would happen if you just Took Lebron and changed his place with Either T-mac or Kobe.....





* Players that are currently playing out of their natural position.

that reply answers the question asked. he has "more" help now, but that doesn't meen it's that good.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-11-2008, 10:44 PM
While I will agree with what you are saying up to a certain point, I'm pretty sure your post is worthless after the season a team like the Boston Celtics experienced last year.

Getting another all star won't guarantee you a ring. But continuing to throw good role players around Lebron when it is evident year after year that this team doesn't have what it takes to get over the hump is laughable to say the least. That is unless Lebron is satisfied with having some good playoff runs instead of actually contending for the title.

How can my statement be worthless when trading for all stars didn't work for the Nuggets, the Mavericks, the Nets, wizards and countless other teams? Boston just didn't get one allstar, they got TWO allstars. So for you to compare them to what everyone else is doing in the league is nonsense. There are COUNTLESS teams with multiple stars just like Boston who DON'T have their success because CONTINUITY is just as important or even more then trading for a star. Teams that trade for a star just for the sake of trading for stars don't fair well in the nba. Go and ask Wizard fans how well has it worked out for them.

cmstophe
11-11-2008, 10:46 PM
Some of you people take this so seriously.

I dunno. I just watch basketball, and Lebron showed me how good he is tonight. ;)

Hawkeye15
11-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Some of you people take this so seriously.

I dunno. I just watch basketball, and Lebron showed me how good he is tonight. ;)

as all greats do, haters nitpick. "He can't shoot!" Yeah, well, getting 41 however he gets it if fine with me. It was the same deal with Shaq, it wasn't pretty with fadeaways, and dribbling all over the place, so people called him unskilled. 30-7-7 is just that. Unmatchable.

cmstophe
11-12-2008, 12:02 AM
as all greats do, haters nitpick. "He can't shoot!" Yeah, well, getting 41 however he gets it if fine with me. It was the same deal with Shaq, it wasn't pretty with fadeaways, and dribbling all over the place, so people called him unskilled. 30-7-7 is just that. Unmatchable.

Beautifully stated, can't say I disagree.

LeBrowns
11-12-2008, 12:36 AM
It puzzles me when people say "He needs another star beside him" after watching an 4-0 Pistons team trade for a player who is individually is better then Billups in Allen Iverson only to drop 2 straight and watching their team ppg take a nose dive suggests that adding an all star doesn't always result in good results. How about Philly? How has Brand helped them? I mean they added a star player to a supporting cast that went to the playoffs the year before only to start the season off 2-4 and Toronto don't look much better. YET with all these supposedly mediocre players that play in Cleveland they STILL managed to get off to an 5-2 start which could have easily been 7-0 if not for Lebron turning the ball over in both loses at Boston and New Orleans. CONTINUITY is very important and until most of yall start to understand that, you'll stay scratching your heads when sub-proven teams trade for all stars who don't improve them like you all thought they would. Look, I'm going to enjoy my teams solid start and continue reading the nonsense that most of you type.

are you from the old cavsboard?

Lebron23
11-12-2008, 12:47 AM
LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. The Cavs are also the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East.

IndiansFan337
11-12-2008, 01:19 AM
Mo Williams is all right I guess, but Big Z has declined big time, and what help does he have outside a few role players? He is still surrounded by not much talent. Sorry.

He has solid talent around him. No one else on the team is at All-Star level, but LeBron might not even need that much help.

I am fairly confident that our squad right now could win the Finals. But we all know that a lot could still change between now & June. Trades can be made, injuries can strike, etc. So it is obviously way too early to be picking the conference's top team quite yet.

theuuord
11-12-2008, 01:42 AM
Whats so surprising Jordanbulls?

For me, i just hope you left off Vince Carter by accident and don't honestly think Wally Szczerbiak is better.

I mean, I'm pretty sure you did, and it's an honest mistake, so no worries.

ee
11-12-2008, 01:57 AM
They added MOwill, above average PG, not a star so this should be the year he gets to prove himself.....I don't even think they're better than the Pistons but still, every year, LBJ takes them as far as he can, losing only to the eventual champion team.....aging ben, aging BigZ, a few nice role players aint gonna cut it, he needs another star like everyone else......Celtics has 3 hall of famers for heavens sake....

tru
11-12-2008, 10:30 PM
LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. The Cavs are also the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East.

alright let me help you out real quick........lebron is not the best player in the nba, he is 4th behind kobe,cp3, and kg, sorry but its true, now as for most valuable to a teams success he isnt even top 5..........

kobe
cp3
kg
duncan
howard
_____________

lebron

tru
11-12-2008, 10:32 PM
How can you say that LeBron is soft? He just totally owned your favorite team last week. Back to back 41 points performance againts the Chicago Bulls.

no shitt sherlock, the bulls suck, hell al horford owned us, is he mvp too now???

JordansBulls
11-12-2008, 10:33 PM
In order for lebron to be succesful (and by that I mean win a title cause that's how high the bar is for him) he must get at least one more all star on his team. And I'm not talking washed up all stars like Ben Wallace, Ilgauskas or have beens like Hughes in the past. He needs some guy that is playing at an all star level right now and not 4 years ago to take some of the pressure off him and also get the ball in critical situations near the end of games. Lebron is a beast but he can't do it all on himself which is what the Cavs seem to be thinking.

Another thing that has strike me is that the Cavs FO for some reason believe putting scoring guards around Lebron is gonna get this team over the hill. while adding such players ain't bad by any means it doesn't really make the Cavs a valid contender either. The thought of Lebron having great court vision and wanting to share the rock therefor he needs scorers around him should just stop now. The Cavs need a guy that will also be a pain in the arse for oppossing coaches and that don't mean just scoring buckets but also play defense, grab the occasional offensive board and help team chemistry out.


Who can he get other than Carter right now?

tru
11-12-2008, 10:55 PM
1st of all, chill man! You're way too upset! Quit the steroids.

Instead of solid I should have used good players, starter material.

Sczerbiak and wallace are done.

Paul>>>>Williams
Mo Peterson=Delonte West
Peja<<<<<Lebron
West>>>Wallace or Varejao
Chandler>>Ilgauskas

Chris Paul has a better supporting cast than Lebron, that's all I was saying.


thats not how u do it einstein, i wasnt talking about position vs position, that not how u compare role players, it more like this

LEBRON fg% 48...... 3pt% 20

mo williams ( 17ppg....6.5apg last year...great scoring option)
illgauskas (7'3'' big man with inside scoring and jumpshots....14ppg 9rpg 08')
wallace( 3 time DPOY.....great rebounder)
sczerbiak ( proven deadly shooter if lebron would ever let him)
west ( 10ppg coming off bench)
varajeo( great defense/hustle...6rpg in 25mpg)
...and nobody else is allowed to touch the ball because they play with "prince" james
________________________________

CP3 fg% 51..........3pt% 41

chandler ( sucks on offense, only use is rebounds )
west (only scores because cp3 sets him up perfectly by passing)
peja( only good for occasional occasional 3's, just like szerbiak only difference is he's allowed to shoot the ball)
posey(minimal scoring with good defense/hustle)
peterson( peterson is no better than washed up eddie jones)
.....nobody else is even worth mentioning


besides, how can you even see anybody playing when your head is stuck up lebrons *******???

HE AINT THAT GOOD, JUST BECAUSE HE HOGS THE BALL AND PUTS SOME POINTS UP DONT MEAN ****, MITCH RICHMOND SCORED AS MUCH AS LEBRON AND NEVER WON **** CUZ HE WASNT A TEAM PLAYER, PLAYERS DONT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS........TEAMS DO! THAT WHY LEBRON WILL NEVER GET A RING

Master Mind
11-12-2008, 10:59 PM
He has more help than D-Wade...

tru
11-12-2008, 11:09 PM
He has more help than D-Wade...

AMEN...................

and vince carter
and zach randolph
and derrick rose
and kevin durant
and baron davis
and dwight howard

Lebron23
11-13-2008, 12:15 AM
LeBron a one man superstar is already better than the Chicago Bulls

rosesbulls
11-13-2008, 01:05 AM
you think chris paul has more help than james??? maybe yall are overrating his soft ***

So a All Star in West and some1 almost an allstar in chandler isnt better then Big Z and Mo Williams are you kidding. Big Z is weak defense mediocre offense. Mo Williams is a average pg mayb slightly above average. West was an allstar last year and might be 1 this year. Chandler is a great alley oop type of guy with long arms good at dunking and great defense. Cavs are garbage without James.

rosesbulls
11-13-2008, 01:23 AM
thats not how u do it einstein, i wasnt talking about position vs position, that not how u compare role players, it more like this

LEBRON fg% 48...... 3pt% 20

mo williams ( 17ppg....6.5apg last year...great scoring option)
illgauskas (7'3'' big man with inside scoring and jumpshots....14ppg 9rpg 08')
wallace( 3 time DPOY.....great rebounder)
sczerbiak ( proven deadly shooter if lebron would ever let him)
west ( 10ppg coming off bench)
varajeo( great defense/hustle...6rpg in 25mpg)
...and nobody else is allowed to touch the ball because they play with "prince" james
________________________________

CP3 fg% 51..........3pt% 41

chandler ( sucks on offense, only use is rebounds )
west (only scores because cp3 sets him up perfectly by passing)
peja( only good for occasional occasional 3's, just like szerbiak only difference is he's allowed to shoot the ball)
posey(minimal scoring with good defense/hustle)
peterson( peterson is no better than washed up eddie jones)
.....nobody else is even worth mentioning


besides, how can you even see anybody playing when your head is stuck up lebrons *******???

HE AINT THAT GOOD, JUST BECAUSE HE HOGS THE BALL AND PUTS SOME POINTS UP DONT MEAN ****, MITCH RICHMOND SCORED AS MUCH AS LEBRON AND NEVER WON **** CUZ HE WASNT A TEAM PLAYER, PLAYERS DONT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS........TEAMS DO! THAT WHY LEBRON WILL NEVER GET A RING

You really think lebron will never win a ring if you do you dont watch him play. Lebron isnt a ball hog thats just you hating on him for no reason other then because he is so dominant. Chandlier does suck on offense but he also is probably one of the best people in the League to alley oop to so he is a good pg's dream player. West is a great scorer and if you really think that West only scores because of CP3 you have never seen a hornets game. Peja is twice as good a shooter as Wally. Wally misses so many open 3s its sad. While Peja is a consistant good shooter. Wally proven deadly shooter are you kidding. Did you see the two Cavs/ Bulls games. Lebron got Wally close to probably more then 5 open 3s and Wally missed all of them. Just becaues a player made the allstar team by some fluke 5 years ago doesnt mean he is still a sharp shooter. Ilgauskus a great big man are u joking terrible defender weak inside he is a terrible 3rd scoring option. Saying Wallace is still in his 3 time dpoy is like saying Wally is still an Allstar. Laughable. And that was Mo last season this season he is missing open shots (that lebron gets him) his floaters are hitting the front of the rim and he has no rythm with team he is probably going to be the rebirth of hughes but waaay to early to say. Lebron James is a tremendous player and passer he gets his teammates open shots all the time so you saying he is a ball hog is you either hating or you dont look at anything for your knowledge and your making it up because statistic wise lebron is averaging 7 apg and game wise he should be averaging 10apg so really i dont know if your either making your stuff up, hating or just plan dont know anything about basketball.

rosesbulls
11-13-2008, 01:31 AM
It puzzles me when people say "He needs another star beside him" after watching an 4-0 Pistons team trade for a player who is individually is better then Billups in Allen Iverson only to drop 2 straight and watching their team ppg take a nose dive suggests that adding an all star doesn't always result in good results. How about Philly? How has Brand helped them? I mean they added a star player to a supporting cast that went to the playoffs the year before only to start the season off 2-4 and Toronto don't look much better. YET with all these supposedly mediocre players that play in Cleveland they STILL managed to get off to an 5-2 start which could have easily been 7-0 if not for Lebron turning the ball over in both loses at Boston and New Orleans. CONTINUITY is very important and until most of yall start to understand that, you'll stay scratching your heads when sub-proven teams trade for all stars who don't improve them like you all thought they would. Look, I'm going to enjoy my teams solid start and continue reading the nonsense that most of you type.

You honestly think Clevelands 7-0 without lebron :speechless::confused:

tru
11-13-2008, 01:36 AM
LeBron a one man superstar is already better than the Chicago Bulls


well the bulls suck so your not saying much, and since you have his picture as an avator and your name is lebron23 i wouldnt expect you to say anything different, your like a dad who wont admit that his daughter is ugly, sorry cleveland sucks, and i wouldnt love on lebron so much if i were you he's going bye bye in 2010 so you might as well pick a different cavalier to beat your meat to

tru
11-13-2008, 01:50 AM
You really think lebron will never win a ring if you do you dont watch him play. Lebron isnt a ball hog thats just you hating on him for no reason other then because he is so dominant. Chandlier does suck on offense but he also is probably one of the best people in the League to alley oop to so he is a good pg's dream player. West is a great scorer and if you really think that West only scores because of CP3 you have never seen a hornets game. Peja is twice as good a shooter as Wally. Wally misses so many open 3s its sad. While Peja is a consistant good shooter. Wally proven deadly shooter are you kidding. Did you see the two Cavs/ Bulls games. Lebron got Wally close to probably more then 5 open 3s and Wally missed all of them. Just becaues a player made the allstar team by some fluke 5 years ago doesnt mean he is still a sharp shooter. Ilgauskus a great big man are u joking terrible defender weak inside he is a terrible 3rd scoring option. Saying Wallace is still in his 3 time dpoy is like saying Wally is still an Allstar. Laughable. And that was Mo last season this season he is missing open shots (that lebron gets him) his floaters are hitting the front of the rim and he has no rythm with team he is probably going to be the rebirth of hughes but waaay to early to say. Lebron James is a tremendous player and passer he gets his teammates open shots all the time so you saying he is a ball hog is you either hating or you dont look at anything for your knowledge and your making it up because statistic wise lebron is averaging 7 apg and game wise he should be averaging 10apg so really i dont know if your either making your stuff up, hating or just plan dont know anything about basketball.

excuses excuses excuses

ok i'll end it like this.............

jordan = 6 championships
duncan= 4 championships
shaq= 4 championships
kobe = 3 championships
wade= 1 chamionship
kg= 1 championship
billups= 1 championship............................

mark madsen= 2 championships
crybaby james = 0,ziltch,none,zip,zero,nothing................

lets see him rockin a gold ring before we stick our heads up his pooper

Lebron23
11-13-2008, 01:53 AM
Kobe won an NBA Championships because of Shaq. Check his Finals Stats, and he was never a legendary player in the Finals.

He sucked in the 2000 and 2001, 2004, and 2008 NBA Finals. Heck even Allen Iverson drop 48 points on his @$$.

You only use the ring argument, when an NBA player is the no.1 options of his team, and if already have a Finals MVP under his resume.

KB24PG16
11-13-2008, 02:13 AM
crappy z has has sucked this all time hes lucky to have lebron to make him look a little bit better

tru
11-13-2008, 02:20 AM
Kobe won an NBA Championships because of Shaq. Check his Finals Stats, and he was never a legendary player in the Finals.

He sucked in the 2000 and 2001, 2004, and 2008 NBA Finals. Heck even Allen Iverson drop 48 points on his @$$.

You only use the ring argument, when an NBA player is the no.1 options of his team, and if already have a Finals MVP under his resume.

what in the hell is that susposed to mean, iverson dropped 60 in a game and kobe dropped 82, lebron only got 56.................iverson is and was a better scorer than lebron will ever be and he's 8 inches shorter and almost 100 pounds lighter...........so forget about championships, lebrons the best right????

wilt= 100
kobe= 81
d.robinson= 71
jordan= 69
t-mac= 62
shaq= 61
k.malone= 61
gilbert= 60
iverson= 60
bird= 60........................
....................
..................
.........
lebron= 56


oh but he's the best right??? lol just accept it my man

tru
11-13-2008, 02:21 AM
crappy z has has sucked this all time hes lucky to have lebron to make him look a little bit better

or maybe lebron's lucky to have big Z ?????

Lebron23
11-13-2008, 02:29 AM
LeBron already broken some of the records in the NBA. Just last week he became the youngest and fastest player to reach 700 steals, 10,000 points, 2,500 rebounds, 2,500 assists and 300 blocks. The 23-year-old did it in 395 games. Michael Jordan was the second fastest (417 games) and Kobe Bryant (26) the second youngest.

He's leading the NBA in scoring this year
Top 10 in assists per game
Leading the NBA in Per and Efficiency ratings
Cavaliers have their best start since the 2005-06 NBA Season

He almost dunked from the Free Throw Line yesterday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZTRCRIjJcI

James is also the first player since Michael Jordan in 1991 to have three 40-point games in his team's first eight games.

or maybe you are the biggest idiot on the planet.

Just admit that LeBron is the best player in the NBA, and he was robbed in the 2006 NBA Season, when Steve " I have Zero NBA Finals appearance" Nash defeated him in the MVP Race.

tru
11-13-2008, 02:35 AM
LeBron already broken some of the records in the NBA. Just last week he became the youngest and fastest player to reach 700 steals, 10,000 points, 2,500 rebounds, 2,500 assists and 300 blocks. The 23-year-old did it in 395 games. Michael Jordan was the second fastest (417 games) and Kobe Bryant (26) the second youngest.

He's leading the NBA in scoring this year
Top 10 in assists per game
Leading the NBA in Per and Efficiency ratings
Cavaliers have their best start since the 2005-06 NBA Season
He almost dunked from the Free Throw Line yesterday


LMAO............

1. yes he is leading the league in scoring, but his team is nowhere near leading the league in the standings

2. top 10 assists??? but hows he getting all those assists??? i thought his team sucked??? lmao better points my man..better points

3.that per/effenciency **** aint worth 2 cents, bunch of waldos with too much free time came up with that goofy system

4. 2005-2006???lmao...wow thats a LONG time ago, i didnt know that!!!!!! theyre definitly gonna win the championship now!!!!!!! lmao

5. jordan did dunk from the freethrow line plenty of times, lol, hell even brent barry did

Lebron23
11-13-2008, 02:43 AM
1. The Cavaliers Record are 6 wins and 2 losses. They won their last 5 games, and still undefeated at home. LeBron have a better team record than Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, and Dwight Howard, and he's also reigning NBA Player of the Week.

2. Because LeBron James is the best passing SF in the NBA. He's a better Point Forward than Prime Grant Hill and Prime Scottie Pippen

3. Per and Efficiency ratings also has proven that Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan are the 3 best players in their respective era's.

4. That's the farthest in game dunk in the history of the NBA since Eddie Jones $hitted on the Charlotte Hornets in the 1995 or 1996 NBA Season.

tru
11-13-2008, 02:51 AM
1. The Cavaliers are 6 wins and 2 losses. They won their last 5 games, and still undefeated at home. LeBron have a better team record than Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, and Dwight Howard, and he's also reigning NBA Player of the Week.

2. Because LeBron James is the best passing SF in the NBA. He's a better Point Forward than Prime Grant Hill and Prime Scottie Pippen

3. Per and Efficiency ratings also has proven that Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan are the 3 best players in their respective era's.

4. That's the farthest in game dunk in the history of the NBA since Eddie Jones $hitted on the Charlotte Hornets in the 1995 or 1996 NBA Season.


1. lmao....notice you didnt say kobe (the real king)
2.ooooh grant hill and scottie pippen, well there you have it lebron is the best ever lmao
3. hmm, you must be a scientist?
4.oh my god!!!! are you serious??? holy macaroni, well thats it, arguments over, lebron is the best ever, he did the coolest dunk in a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lebrons gonna to need surgery to add some fingers to his hand cuz he's gonna win so many rings, you know with those cool dunks and everything, watch out kobe!!! i heard lebron can do a windmill!!!!!!! lol

Lebron23
11-13-2008, 02:56 AM
Because the Lakers are still winning despite Kobe Bryant shooting 5/15 againts the New Orleans Hornets.

tru
11-13-2008, 03:02 AM
Because the Lakers are still winning despite Kobe Bryant shooting 5/15 againts the New Orleans Hornets.

alright whatever, agree to disagree, im done arguing with you just let me know when the weddings gonna be mrs.james

theuuord
11-13-2008, 03:33 AM
PER is an excellent tool for rating efficiency... It's not perfect - no one statistic is - but it's definitely better than just looking at the bare stats with no context.

rosesbulls
11-13-2008, 07:31 PM
1. lmao....notice you didnt say kobe (the real king)
2.ooooh grant hill and scottie pippen, well there you have it lebron is the best ever lmao
3. hmm, you must be a scientist?
4.oh my god!!!! are you serious??? holy macaroni, well thats it, arguments over, lebron is the best ever, he did the coolest dunk in a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lebrons gonna to need surgery to add some fingers to his hand cuz he's gonna win so many rings, you know with those cool dunks and everything, watch out kobe!!! i heard lebron can do a windmill!!!!!!! lol

Yea Grant Hill and Scottie Pippen are probably two of the best passing sf of all time. You can probably add to that list Larry Bird in passing were he was very underated but very good. No1 said he was the best ever your just hating on him because at the end of his career he has a chance to be the best ever. People were always hating on kobe because he is so good but now every1 seems to love to hate on James because he is so much better then every1 besides Kobe were I think Kobe might still be better it is extremely close. and he made the comment to show you not only does he put up the # he also has incredible abilitys so everything you posted was not just a terrible argument it was weak and childish. You didnt make a single good argument in your entire post on why Lebron isnt good all you did was make weak haters comments.