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View Full Version : Should The Nets Be Last In The East?



Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 04:14 PM
I saw rankings about the Nets being last in the east... Almost every PR's had the Nets last.
Not only did we win our 1st game against the Wizards by 10 points, but was also have just won against the Pistons by 7 points.
I seriously have never watched the nets beat the pistons.. like ever. Nets lost all four games against the Pistons last year with a better team...
I seriously see us making the playoffs. No way are the Nets last...
I woulda posted this in the Nets forum but they would all just say yes because they are fans...
how do you guys feel though...
Please just post you honest opinion...
Also no "VC sux" either :pity:

superkegger
11-08-2008, 04:28 PM
well PR's are worthless when it comes to the NBA, but they probably shouldn't be no.

as far as playoffs go, I don't know. It's early, and I don't kow that they have enough to compete for the whole season. They're a very young team and with Yi, Boone, Sean Williams, Brook and CDR, I'm not sure I buy them in the playoffs.

njnets
11-08-2008, 04:35 PM
nf93, you know me and of course i WANT them to make the playoffs, but it was too early. maybe they are hot or something idk. but as the season progresses, we should get a clearer view about the expectations of the team.

as far as the worst team i think we have already set the tone for not being the worst team. this team as great potential but everything is not screwed in yet, so for now, we just have to go with it. but we are definitely not the worst team in the east or nba at all.

superkegger
11-08-2008, 04:39 PM
I would also expect a few transactions on the Nets part to tweak the roster, they've got a few guys like Najera, Hayes, and dooling who might be attractive to contenders to fill out the bench.

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 04:42 PM
I would also expect a few transactions on the Nets part to tweak the roster, they've got a few guys like Najera, Hayes, and dooling who might be attractive to contenders to fill out the bench.
We just signed Najera, Hayes and Dooling... maybe.. but im not sure that is very likely
They can take Dooling though...He plays like a rookie

scrumptiousduck
11-08-2008, 04:43 PM
nets they have no big man presence

superkegger
11-08-2008, 04:45 PM
We just signed Najera, Hayes and Dooling... maybe.. but im not sure that is very likely
They can take Dooling though...He plays like a rookie

well, I'm just saying, if things go south, those guys are attractive pieces to fill out a bench if young talent and picks can be had in return, which it looks like thats the way the Nets are going, especially after dealing RJ.

Of course now they're in the Bobby Simmons Era. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/bobby_simmons_under)

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 04:46 PM
nets they have no big man presence
Actually Brook has a very nice post game...
Boone is a nice hustle player.. 18pts 14 rebs
Yi is a big but not a post threat...
Don't underestimate the Nets.. we have gotten into the playoffs with Collins starting center...

SteveNash
11-08-2008, 04:47 PM
Wizards should probably be the worse team, but there's no real reason why you should think power rankings after 1 1/2 weeks is really going to hold up anyway.

Also, AI makes us 10x worse and we should be the second worse team in the East.

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 04:48 PM
well, I'm just saying, if things go south, those guys are attractive pieces to fill out a bench if young talent and picks can be had in return, which it looks like thats the way the Nets are going, especially after dealing RJ.

Of course now they're in the Bobby Simmons Era. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/bobby_simmons_under)
LOL where did you find that?

_Sn1P3r_
11-08-2008, 06:33 PM
well, I'm just saying, if things go south, those guys are attractive pieces to fill out a bench if young talent and picks can be had in return, which it looks like thats the way the Nets are going, especially after dealing RJ.

Of course now they're in the Bobby Simmons Era. (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/bobby_simmons_under)

Was he serious??

Ragun
11-08-2008, 06:51 PM
vc sux

laker1000
11-08-2008, 06:55 PM
vc sux

x2

JordansBulls
11-08-2008, 07:05 PM
vc sux

Are you kidding me? Vince Carter is one of the most underrated players in the league. Compare him to two guys in the league who many would consider top 5 such as Kobe or Wade.
Sure both Kobe and Wade have titles, but Vince never played with a player that was in their prime or better than him on the team. You can't say Kidd was in his prime because the Kidd that Vince played with is the same one in Dallas now.

Just compare them for instance.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp

Vince is #9
Wade #13
Kobe #21

Vince vs Wade vs Kobe in the season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=cartevi01&y1=2009&p2=bryanko01&y2=2009&p3=wadedw01&y3=2009)


Now I am not going to say Vince is better than them or as good, but to say things like Vince sucks and overrated when he has put up similar career numbers as guys who are considered top 5 is simply not true.
Hell I think Vince is only a handfull of guys who has even scored 50 in a playoff game along with Dirk (1x), Iverson (3x), Kobe (1x)

CHief_0_o_Wahoo
11-08-2008, 07:16 PM
Nets will most likely be on that bottom rung in the east. I don't know about last, but probably bottom five.

Ragun
11-08-2008, 07:17 PM
i saw rankings about the nets being last in the east... Almost every pr's had the nets last.
Not only did we win our 1st game against the wizards by 10 points, but was also have just won against the pistons by 7 points.
I seriously have never watched the nets beat the pistons.. Like ever. Nets lost all four games against the pistons last year with a better team...
I seriously see us making the playoffs. No way are the nets last...
I woulda posted this in the nets forum but they would all just say yes because they are fans...
How do you guys feel though...
Please just post you honest opinion...
also no "vc sux" either :pity:


are you kidding me? Vince carter is one of the most underrated players in the league. Compare him to two guys in the league who many would consider top 5 such as kobe or wade.
Sure both kobe and wade have titles, but vince never played with a player that was in their prime or better than him on the team. You can't say kidd was in his prime because the kidd that vince played with is the same one in dallas now.

Just compare them for instance.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/player.jsp

vince is #9
wade #13
kobe #21

vince vs wade vs kobe in the season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=cartevi01&y1=2009&p2=bryanko01&y2=2009&p3=wadedw01&y3=2009)


now i am not going to say vince is better than them or as good, but to say things like vince sucks and overrated when he has put up similar career numbers as guys who are considered top 5 is simply not true.
Hell i think vince is only a handfull of guys who has even scored 50 in a playoff game along with dirk (1x), iverson (3x), kobe (1x)

:p

b_rad23
11-08-2008, 07:23 PM
Actually Brook has a very nice post game...
Boone is a nice hustle player.. 18pts 14 rebs
Yi is a big but not a post threat...
Don't underestimate the Nets.. we have gotten into the playoffs with Collins starting center...

That was with J-Kidd and RJ in stead of Devin Harris and Yi.


nets they have no big man presence

No big man presence on the offensive end. Agreed.


Nets will most likely be on that bottom rung in the east. I don't know about last, but probably bottom five.

Yup.

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 08:54 PM
Are you kidding me? Vince Carter is one of the most underrated players in the league. Compare him to two guys in the league who many would consider top 5 such as Kobe or Wade.
Sure both Kobe and Wade have titles, but Vince never played with a player that was in their prime or better than him on the team. You can't say Kidd was in his prime because the Kidd that Vince played with is the same one in Dallas now.

Just compare them for instance.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp

Vince is #9
Wade #13
Kobe #21

Vince vs Wade vs Kobe in the season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=cartevi01&y1=2009&p2=bryanko01&y2=2009&p3=wadedw01&y3=2009)


Now I am not going to say Vince is better than them or as good, but to say things like Vince sucks and overrated when he has put up similar career numbers as guys who are considered top 5 is simply not true.
Hell I think Vince is only a handfull of guys who has even scored 50 in a playoff game along with Dirk (1x), Iverson (3x), Kobe (1x)
They will never understand bro...

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 08:57 PM
That was with J-Kidd and RJ in stead of Devin Harris and Yi.

You mean the Kidd and RJ that lost to the Pistons 8 straight times?
And the Yi and Harris who won against a piston team with AI?

superkegger
11-08-2008, 09:39 PM
They will never understand bro...

Vince is a very talented guy, no doubt, and his stats are pretty stellar. No doubt, but this article kind of put what I never could into words.

Read that article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Vince-Carter-doesn-t-care-what-Phil-Jackson-thin?urn=nba,105774#remaining-content)

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 09:41 PM
Vince is a very talented guy, no doubt, and his stats are pretty stellar. No doubt, but this article kind of put what I never could into words.

Read that article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Vince-Carter-doesn-t-care-what-Phil-Jackson-thin?urn=nba,105774#remaining-content)
All Phil does is rip on players from other teams... I wouldnt care either

superkegger
11-08-2008, 09:44 PM
All Phil does is rip on players from other teams... I wouldnt care either

Not really the point of the article...


As long as, at the end of the season, he gets his 20-plus per game, VC is cool. Doesn't matter how he gets it. Doesn't matter if he should be living at the line, or tearing up the baseline where nobody could guard him. Or working in the post, where no mortal could guard his fadeaway. He's akin to the sort of player whose stereotype nearly downed the NBA in the 1970s and 1980s; oblivious to trends and the purportedly ambivalent to the win/loss column, just as long as he got his 20.

Some of that's wrong, though.

Vince does care who wins or loses. And he has shown signs, on and off, since becoming a Net in December of 2004. This guy does care, he feels it, he gets it, and he has a head on his shoulders.

Whether he decides to do something with that or not is his call. And, sadly, his consistent clarion call for years has been to take ‘er easy.

Yes, he should be at the point in his career (turning 31 last January) where the output should start to slip. But we watched the games.

The Nets had no chance last year, I told that to anyone that would listen but nobody would listen, and once the team wised up and initiated the rebuilding process, Carter packed it in. That wasn't age catching up to him. That was a player barely showing up, while still having the talent and touch to muster 21, six rebounds, and five assists.

He didn't just stand on the perimeter and chuck three-pointers, the attempts actually went down last season, he just sort of showed up without showing up. He wasn't lost in the mix as Jason Kidd replacements like Marcus Williams and Devin Harris flailed away, he was willing to be part of the crowd, and rarely put his imprint on the game. He floated. As he's done for years.

Phil Jackson was one of millions to notice. And it's VC's right to shoot PJ down in the Telegraph (I'm a Guardian man myself, though I do appreciate the stylings of James May), but it's also Jackson's right to speak for the lot of us that still expect great things from Vince Carter. We're idiots for expecting as much, I know, but we still remember his rookie year, and 1999-00. God, he was great.

And we remember how scary things looked in 2000-01, when Vince first started to meander, and rely on talent alone to throw in heaps of fadeaway jumpers while failing to take that next step. Raptor fans killed me for it, they killed me for any honest thing that I wrote about Vince until that Nelly concert or (for the diehards) his trade early in 2004-05, but I was right. The guy was on a path toward basketball oblivion.

He's ended up the Michael Ray Richardson of his generation, without the excuse of being strung out. Impressive numbers on talent alone, no impact, while still giving us assorted stretches of dominance (how great was his work as a Net in 2004-05?) while we still knew better.

In the end, Vince is right. He doesn't care what Phil Jackson thinks. He shouldn't care what Phil Jackson thinks, ideally, and all his on-court machinations pale in comparison to what he does off the court. Joke all you want about him attending his graduation ceremony in 2001 on the morning of a Game 7, but his Raptors shouldn't have made it to a Game 7 that year against a superior 76er team. He got them that far, and his work in the early morning hours had nothing to do with that last-second jumper bouncing off the rim.

And in England, where the footballers must be pretty useless when it comes to this sort of stuff, he came off pretty well:

"'First comes the student, then the athlete,' Carter, sporting a gargantuan track suit, tells his wide-eyed audience at the Larkhall Park basketball court in the south London borough. The money you can make in the NBA is nothing compared to the riches that you can achieve through education.'

Hardly the stuff that normally rolls out of your average Premier League footballer's mouth."

So, the Telegraph was impressed. I just don't expect, this late in the game, to be nearly as impressed with Vince's on-court work in 2008-09. I hope I'm wrong, but it's a pretty safe bet that I'm spot on.

OrderOfCook
11-08-2008, 10:04 PM
I try not to discuss Vince Carter all that much because it always leads to nonsense, and in the interest of full disclosure I am a life-long Raptors fan, but the reason Vince is not considered amongst the best (or even great) players in the NBA has very little to do with his stats. It has to do with his poisonous personality, his absolute inability to play defense unless it has to do with a personal competition with an opposing player, and finally because of the way he left the Raptors. To flesh those things out a bit for you, Vince has an incredibly selfish personality--even when he was the leader of the Raps and I was cheering madly for him as a part of our team (but not as an individual) he had problems of sulking when he disagreed with coaches or referees, giving up when he was bested by opponents and getting into small off-court disagreements with virtually every player he has played with. Look around the league, lots of guys like Vince, but the vast majority don't comment too positively on the effect he has on his team-mates. Defense: Vince Carter is arguably the laziest career defender that I can think of. It's not that his defense is always terrible, it's that he has the potential to be one of the best defenders in the NBA. Look at Jordan, Kobe etc, they play ridiculously good defense because they are ridiculously athletic--it's easy to play defense when you can out-run and out-jump almost anyone you face. Add in the fact that he rarely has tough defensive assignments and it's completely inexcusable that he would not play top-quality defense at all time. Finally, the way he left the Raptors. As far as I'm concerned, any player who openly admits that they are playing poorly because they want a trade (or that they refuse to play for a certain team in other player's cases) should be suspended from the league for two years without pay. And I mean that. To cause such a disservice to the fans of the team, fans of the game and other players is irresponsible at the least and I think more accurately points towards a mental focus on the "I'm gonna get mine" more than "I love playing basketball and I get paid millions of dollars to do so." Vince will no doubt go down as one of the greatest wastes of a career that the NBA has ever seen.

Nets fan 93
11-08-2008, 10:13 PM
^
Vince will no doubt go down as one of the greatest wastes of a career that the NBA has ever seen.
I dont think so...
I've seen worse... in fact he has been an all star 8 times. scored 50 points in a playoff game... averaged 21-6-5..

I have in fact seen WAY worse

OrderOfCook
11-08-2008, 10:18 PM
See if you can find a copy of the 1999 March Madness issue of SI and see what they say about his potential. Read a dozen or so articles from his rookie year and see what they say about him. Vince could have been Kobe, Vince could have been anyone, other than Lebron he is perhaps the most physically gifted basketball athlete to come into the NBA in 20 years. I want to stress that I'm not saying that Vince hasn't had a nice career--his numbers and all-star appearances would undermine that--all I'm saying is that when he retires people will forever remember the career Vince didn't have, not the career he had. And the only one responsible for that is Vince Carter.

superkegger
11-09-2008, 10:33 AM
^
I dont think so...
I've seen worse... in fact he has been an all star 8 times. scored 50 points in a playoff game... averaged 21-6-5..

I have in fact seen WAY worse

You're obviously not listening to what we're saying then.

Yes, Vince is a good player and puts up good stats. We all know that.

That's not the point at all.


See if you can find a copy of the 1999 March Madness issue of SI and see what they say about his potential. Read a dozen or so articles from his rookie year and see what they say about him. Vince could have been Kobe, Vince could have been anyone, other than Lebron he is perhaps the most physically gifted basketball athlete to come into the NBA in 20 years. I want to stress that I'm not saying that Vince hasn't had a nice career--his numbers and all-star appearances would undermine that--all I'm saying is that when he retires people will forever remember the career Vince didn't have, not the career he had. And the only one responsible for that is Vince Carter.

Well said.

Kaptain Kanada
11-09-2008, 10:56 AM
I would say that Carter could be a real superstar in the WNBA.... but that would be a big putdown for all the women in that league who actually play with heart.

JJ81
11-09-2008, 11:05 AM
I saw rankings about the Nets being last in the east... Almost every PR's had the Nets last.
Not only did we win our 1st game against the Wizards by 10 points, but was also have just won against the Pistons by 7 points.
I seriously have never watched the nets beat the pistons.. like ever. Nets lost all four games against the Pistons last year with a better team...
I seriously see us making the playoffs. No way are the Nets last...
I woulda posted this in the Nets forum but they would all just say yes because they are fans...
how do you guys feel though...
Please just post you honest opinion...
Also no "VC sux" either :pity:

Don't brag about beating the last-place, winless wizards. Detroits first game with Iverson so maybe they were adjusting?

Anyway, there not last in the East and I didn't predict that.

philab
11-09-2008, 12:11 PM
Was he serious??

No. It's from The Onion, a satirical newspaper.

It's good stuff -- read it sometime.

theuuord
11-09-2008, 01:57 PM
If the Nets win 30+ games I'll be happy with this season.
They definitely won't be last in the East, though.

njnets
11-09-2008, 02:01 PM
averaged 21-6-5.

enough said. 3 players who did that last year? do you want to know who? ok hears the answer:

kobe, lebron (both fighting for the best player in the league recognition) AND VINCE CARTER! sorry nf93, other people piss me off when they say VC sucks. while he is not the greatest player and nets fans don't go out saying that, they have to be @$$holes about it and start baiting with us.

anyways, ill answer the question again, and no they should not be last in the east.

superkegger
11-09-2008, 05:39 PM
averaged 21-6-5.

enough said. 3 players who did that last year? do you want to know who? ok hears the answer:

kobe, lebron (both fighting for the best player in the league recognition) AND VINCE CARTER! sorry nf93, other people piss me off when they say VC sucks. while he is not the greatest player and nets fans don't go out saying that, they have to be @$$holes about it and start baiting with us.

anyways, ill answer the question again, and no they should not be last in the east.

no one's baiting or saying VC sucks. You're clearly not reading what was said.

Yogi
11-09-2008, 05:52 PM
The Wizards should because they suck.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2008, 05:54 PM
Vince Carter does not suck. But he could have been so much better. That is the problem many have with him. His athletic potential was that of a top 10 player ever. He just doesn't have the work ethic, or desire to be a top player. What happened to the guy in this video? And injuries is a bs excuse, because he has never had a bad injury
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdBXzid3m7E

Nets fan 93
11-09-2008, 06:00 PM
Don't brag about beating the last-place, winless wizards. Detroits first game with Iverson so maybe they were adjusting?

Anyway, there not last in the East and I didn't predict that.
Where the hell am i bragging idiot?
As a fan i am happy coz We lost to the pistons 8 straight times.
And the wizards were a playoff team last year...

njnets
11-09-2008, 06:29 PM
no one's baiting or saying VC sucks. You're clearly not reading what was said.

people are saying vc sucks when it does not pertain to the topic, they don't support their answer, and they do it because they hate vc. i see that here, maybe you just have a different view idk.

DJ CHACH
11-09-2008, 06:33 PM
let me say one thing to u so called nets fans...if harris doesnt flop for 26 freethrows everygame for the rest of the way, u guys wont go anywhere...and just wait till they start fining him for flopping...i have a theory with the nets, if they dont get to the line at LEAST 30 times, they wont win..look it up, its true..u guys have a gameplan to foul everyone out and not play real basketball..and someo ne should tell boone to shave his nose, it may have caused him to get rejected by the rim against teh pacers

Nets fan 93
11-09-2008, 11:04 PM
let me say one thing to u so called nets fans...if harris doesnt flop for 26 freethrows everygame for the rest of the way, u guys wont go anywhere...and just wait till they start fining him for flopping...i have a theory with the nets, if they dont get to the line at LEAST 30 times, they wont win..look it up, its true..u guys have a gameplan to foul everyone out and not play real basketball..and someo ne should tell boone to shave his nose, it may have caused him to get rejected by the rim against teh pacers
Would you like to show me some evidence of us trying to "foul everyone out" LMAO... Get over the fact your team doesnt have Harris...
BTW if we didnt have Harris we would have Kid "If you guys didnt have Harris blah blah blah...

Also that was an awful pass from Dooling... if it were Harris it would have been on target... Boone is a good player... look up his stats bro...

LMAO are gameplan is fouling everyone out.. please:rolleyes:
:laugh: