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View Full Version : Steven A's convo with Tracy



barreleffact
11-04-2008, 07:24 PM
Tracey has gone from being an injured star that cant win, to being a selfish loser in my eyes. Multiple times he downed his teammates present and future. He admitted that last year he had no expectations, and he also said he doesnt know why people blame him because he elevates "his" game.

He needs to stfu in all honesty. The fact is the man lost when up 3-1. The fact is he lost at home against utah in 7. the fact is the man is a supposed star. man up and take responsibility for being the best player and leader of the team. take responsibility for what you led to happening.

This conversation to me just cemented that he is a loser and has a loser's mentality. He obviously has a frail mentality IMO. If they win this year, or even if they advance out of the first round, its because of artest. Artest has been leading this team and has been a stud. He is that defensive piece but also that big brother looking out for everybody on the team. Yes, T-mac did give credit to artest a lot, but idk. it just seems too late for me to care after everything else he said. he's a loser. a scrub of a star.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
11-04-2008, 07:40 PM
yeah wow its horrible that he lost 3-1 when he was the 8 seed hey?
and projected to get swept
also in game 7 at home vs. utah idk if u watched the game but he did do what he could single handly do to keep his team in it

marvILLous
11-04-2008, 07:42 PM
it's Tracy still..

JOSETHEALLSTAR
11-04-2008, 08:06 PM
okay nothing really new

t-mac1nukka
11-04-2008, 09:20 PM
he said the same thing everyone else has/is saying.

USMCLaker
11-04-2008, 09:41 PM
Link?

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 12:28 AM
^ just go to espn.com n the basketball page. the video is on it. but i dont fault the man for losing. I honestly dont. and i dont care at all, but to diss your teammates and act as if you have no blame is selfish. he isnt a leader, he isnt even a good character person anymore. this video just ruined him for me. and if i was ever a teammate of his id hope he stayed injured and never got out of the first round.

BTownTeamsRKing
11-05-2008, 01:11 AM
if he doesnt play defense, his team isnt goin anywhere. Ray Ray lit him up tonight

prash
11-05-2008, 02:17 AM
if he doesnt play defense, his team isnt goin anywhere. Ray Ray lit him up tonight

seriously... Allen was schooling him all over the court.

McGrady is going to have to be a proper leader for the Rockets to succeed... or give space to Artest so he can. The rox still have their scoring droughts and McGrady needs to be a leader when those situations arise.

LA_Raiders
11-05-2008, 02:48 AM
he suxs

Lakersfan2483
11-05-2008, 03:31 AM
^ just go to espn.com n the basketball page. the video is on it. but i dont fault the man for losing. I honestly dont. and i dont care at all, but to diss your teammates and act as if you have no blame is selfish. he isnt a leader, he isnt even a good character person anymore. this video just ruined him for me. and if i was ever a teammate of his id hope he stayed injured and never got out of the first round.

He's a great player, but he lacks the ability to lead a team, he has superstar ability, but does not seem to want to be the main guy on a team. In order for the Rockets to win, they need Tracy to step up and lead and take over close games. If he fails to do it this year, the Rockets may have to move in another direction.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 05:12 AM
He's a great player, but he lacks the ability to lead a team, he has superstar ability, but does not seem to want to be the main guy on a team. In order for the Rockets to win, they need Tracy to step up and lead and take over close games. If he fails to do it this year, the Rockets may have to move in another direction.

agreed 100

Chronz
11-05-2008, 05:27 AM
Tmac is a brutally honest person, for better or for worse, and the man is right. He always raised his game come playoff time relative to how well he did in the regular season. What more could you ask of your player, its not like he can rebound for all his teammates or make shots for them. Its never on 1 player so the whole its his fault for not making the playoffs or not manning up doesnt make any sense. Hes manned up and has admitted defeat but it doesnt prevent him from telling it how it is. If the Rockets win Tmac will have a say in it, your hatred is just dumb.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 05:28 AM
if he doesnt play defense, his team isnt goin anywhere. Ray Ray lit him up tonight

He cant move laterally right now, hes not fit to play defensively, every Rocket fan knew this coming into the season. Give him time, hes a pretty bad defender but hes not THIS bad.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 07:47 AM
Tmac is a brutally honest person, for better or for worse, and the man is right. He always raised his game come playoff time relative to how well he did in the regular season. What more could you ask of your player, its not like he can rebound for all his teammates or make shots for them. Its never on 1 player so the whole its his fault for not making the playoffs or not manning up doesnt make any sense. Hes manned up and has admitted defeat but it doesnt prevent him from telling it how it is. If the Rockets win Tmac will have a say in it, your hatred is just dumb.

brutally honest??? lol hilarious. what you are calling honesty, is in fact immaturity. man up and accept some responsibilty for losing. accept that you are the best player and thus the leader. who cares if you lost, but have class. do not degrade your teammates. did jordan? did kg? kobe did in ways, but anyone else? he elevated "his" game, but what about his teammates? if the rockets win, he will have a say in it. but artest will have just as big a say. artest should be the leader. he can handle the pressure better than a frail minded mcgrady. he can defend better and score almost as well. but i digress. the fact is the man apparently sucks as a star and as a teammate. he speaks all woa is me. dont blame me, im scared and hurt by the blame. eff that. why should he care what anyone else thinks? if he didnt maybe things wuold go differently. maybe hed get out of the 1st round. chris paul has never complained about his team. as limited as they are, he makes them better. as limited as they are, he took them to the 2nd round when everyone said theyd lose in the 1st. he took SA to 7 games when ppl thought sweep. just be honest with yourself and stp making excuses for him. he isnt a leader, he cant accept criticism w/o taking it to heart, he isnt a great teammate, and overall he is weak. he has the package when healthy body wise but not mentally. put bird in his body and he might have been the best ever. but mac should be happy if he gets to the hall of fame.

bostncelts34
11-05-2008, 11:23 AM
After watching t-mac play boston last night. I lost so much respect for him. He has NO defense. He doesnt even try to fight through picks o anything. Just lazy. Houston will NOT win anything if he doesnt learn to play defense. Artest needs to have some 1 on 1 lessons or something. i was disgusted.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 03:10 PM
brutally honest??? lol hilarious. what you are calling honesty, is in fact immaturity.
Its not immature to tell the truth, and the man has taken alot of undeserved crap for his teams lack of post season success. You cannot fault a man for telling it how it is, what you find to be immature I find refreshing, hes a athlete who doesnt say the politically correct things, he just tells it how it is.



man up and accept some responsibilty for losing. accept that you are the best player and thus the leader. who cares if you lost, but have class. do not degrade your teammates.
He saying he lost to better teams, thats not degrading your teammates. Thats showing respect for the opposition, doesnt get any classier than that.


did jordan?
Yes


did kg?
Yes



kobe did in ways, but anyone else?
Dirk, Shaq, Wilt ......


he elevated "his" game, but what about his teammates?
He cant rebound for them, he cant make the shots for them. He did his job PERIOD.


if the rockets win, he will have a say in it. but artest will have just as big a say.
Probably dont really care



artest should be the leader. he can handle the pressure better than a frail minded mcgrady.
Yao will always be the leader, and neither are frail minded


he can defend better and score almost as well. but i digress.
They will have different roles on the team, Tmac will be a facilitator and make Ron's job easier, Yao will be a finisher and primary scorer, Artest may come off the bench and carry the team or he will stay with the starting unit and be the secondary option offensively.



the fact is the man apparently sucks as a star and as a teammate.
Actually hes a great teammate, and a very coachable player, Ill take the word of his peers over yours thank you very much


he speaks all woa is me. dont blame me, im scared and hurt by the blame.
Its called defending yourself from unjust criticism


eff that. why should he care what anyone else thinks?
What??



if he didnt maybe things wuold go differently. maybe hed get out of the 1st round.
lol yea man, somehow someway, him not talking to the press would make his teammates better. Thats not much of an argument




chris paul has never complained about his team. as limited as they are, he makes them better. as limited as they are, he took them to the 2nd round when everyone said theyd lose in the 1st.
Who said they would lose in the 1st round? His team has never been limited theyve just never been healthy, and CP3 > Tmac at this stage in his career so what exactly are you trying to get at?



he took SA to 7 games when ppl thought sweep. just be honest with yourself and stp making excuses for him. he isnt a leader, he cant accept criticism w/o taking it to heart, he isnt a great teammate, and overall he is weak.
I dont know where your getting your facts but NOBODY thought it would be a sweep, well maybe the kids who dont know much about the game but their opinion shouldnt matter now should it. Again all your criticism is pretty much regurgitated garbage.


he has the package when healthy body wise but not mentally. put bird in his body and he might have been the best ever. but mac should be happy if he gets to the hall of fame.
Yes its his fault he gets injured all the time right

EDIT) Its also Tmac fault that Grant Hill got injured in Orlando and that Yao broke his foot last year. OH and that Battier is still out right now, and if Artest ever gos postal in houston it will be Tmacs fault right...

Chronz
11-05-2008, 03:12 PM
After watching t-mac play boston last night. I lost so much respect for him. He has NO defense. He doesnt even try to fight through picks o anything. Just lazy. Houston will NOT win anything if he doesnt learn to play defense. Artest needs to have some 1 on 1 lessons or something. i was disgusted.
The fact that hes even playing it out right now is enough to demand respect. It would be like me losing respect for Pierce if he played hurt and couldnt play at the same level hes used to.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 03:28 PM
LMFAO barrel, from this point forward your opinion on Tmac is invalid. He talks highly of his teammates in the damn interview. Sayin his team isnt very talented without his dominant BIG and only PG on the team is COMMON SENSE. If you have a problem with the truth then find someone else to hate on. Tell me ONE thing Tmac was wrong about in this interview, so you have a problem with his style, nobody cares so long as hes telling it how it is. If hes making up excuses that are just out of line or completely inaccurate then go ahead. But until that happens get a clue


LMAO this is one Tmac's best interviews. Thanks for the heads up though

Rockets4Life
11-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Tracey has gone from being an injured star that cant win, to being a selfish loser in my eyes. Multiple times he downed his teammates present and future. He admitted that last year he had no expectations, and he also said he doesnt know why people blame him because he elevates "his" game.

He needs to stfu in all honesty. The fact is the man lost when up 3-1. The fact is he lost at home against utah in 7. the fact is the man is a supposed star. man up and take responsibility for being the best player and leader of the team. take responsibility for what you led to happening.

This conversation to me just cemented that he is a loser and has a loser's mentality. He obviously has a frail mentality IMO. If they win this year, or even if they advance out of the first round, its because of artest. Artest has been leading this team and has been a stud. He is that defensive piece but also that big brother looking out for everybody on the team. Yes, T-mac did give credit to artest a lot, but idk. it just seems too late for me to care after everything else he said. he's a loser. a scrub of a star.

So then your telling me the only reason the Celtics won last year was because of Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. Nobody wins championships by themselves. If we win, it will not be because of artest. He will be part of the reason by not the sole reason, just like kevin Garnett and ray were not only reason boston won.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 03:56 PM
chronz- get off his nuts. to say that this is one of his best interviews implies that the rest are even worse. thats terrible.

this interview and many more just prove his weakness: his false guarantee in 07, his its my fault rant in 08, to his my teammates suck here and in orlando in 09's season. the man refuses to accept blame and instead says thing like we have no expectations. players go down. man up and make up as best you can. even his tone was degrading to his teammates. he defends himself like a child. hey it wasnt my fault...look at him. no all he has to say is i led the team, and we lost. it is my fault, but not only my fault. as a unit we didnt get it done but its over

You know what will seperate him form any true great? their ability to elevate their own games and their teams. all the greats have donw it and maybe tmac was always meant to be a 2nd or 3rd option guy. he even spoke of how he needs like 2 other elite people or someone far better than he could dream of on this interview. this ability to actually carry a team is why i brought up cp3.


yes, cp3's team is very limited. chandler is only defense and rebounding, but paul made him an offensive threat. west was a nobody to most people, but we all know him now. stoya cant defend, and mo pete is the starting sg...doesnt matter. cp3 turned them into contenders. he elevates "his" game, by elevating everyone elses as well as his own scoring.

yes, most espn analysts suggested the hornets would lose to dallas due to j kidd and the mavs playoff experience. yes most people though the hornets would ony get 5-6 games max against the spurs. thats fact

and i said if he didnt let things get to him, he might be able to play well enough to get out the first round. that anxiety and pressure from the media gets to him and it limits him. it makes him feel he'll let everyone down if he loses and that negativity is a factor.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 04:08 PM
So then your telling me the only reason the Celtics won last year was because of Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. Nobody wins championships by themselves. If we win, it will not be because of artest. He will be part of the reason by not the sole reason, just like kevin Garnett and ray were not only reason boston won.

the celtics werent going to do anything last year without garnett. allen OR pierce could have gone down and it would have been ok. no kg meant maybe no playoffs.

KG changed the entire team with "his" defence but also elevating the rest of his team. he molded the entire team to commit to D. it just wouldnt have happen if russel never made that trade for KG.

In all honesty, Mac is a factor this year. how big I cannot say. the fact is though, that artest is the most likely to be healthy and play all 82 games. he is the best defender on the team or at least top 2, and he is a monster on offense. he should actually be the one who is the leader. if they get out, artest put them over the top. he's already looking like a big brother to me. he's getting his numbers and playing D, but also getting techs by protecting mcgrady and yao. thats what i meant by its because of artest. he is the one doin w/e possible to put them over the top

LD V2.0
11-05-2008, 04:14 PM
Tracey has gone from being an injured star that cant win, to being a selfish loser in my eyes. Multiple times he downed his teammates present and future. He admitted that last year he had no expectations, and he also said he doesnt know why people blame him because he elevates "his" game.

He was always a selfish. Don't you remember how he left Orlando? I can't fault him for wanting out of Toronto because they screwed with him but he totally quit on Orlando. It was disgraceful how he turned on them.

goku
11-05-2008, 04:29 PM
After watching t-mac play boston last night. I lost so much respect for him. He has NO defense. He doesnt even try to fight through picks o anything. Just lazy. Houston will NOT win anything if he doesnt learn to play defense. Artest needs to have some 1 on 1 lessons or something. i was disgusted.

he's playing with a slow healing knee what you expect his lateral movement to be good he still had 3 steals

Chronz
11-05-2008, 04:29 PM
chronz- get off his nuts. to say that this is one of his best interviews implies that the rest are even worse. thats terrible.
Only in opposite land where telling it how it is hurts.


this interview and many more just prove his weakness: his false guarantee in 07, his its my fault rant in 08, to his my teammates suck here and in orlando in 09's season. the man refuses to accept blame and instead says thing like we have no expectations. players go down. man up and make up as best you can. even his tone was degrading to his teammates. he defends himself like a child. hey it wasnt my fault...look at him. no all he has to say is i led the team, and we lost. it is my fault, but not only my fault. as a unit we didnt get it done but its over
What false gaurantee in 07? And he takes the blame, he just doesnt take undeserved blame. Key difference, again you have proven nothing.


You know what will seperate him form any true great? their ability to elevate their own games and their teams. all the greats have donw it and maybe tmac was always meant to be a 2nd or 3rd option guy. he even spoke of how he needs like 2 other elite people or someone far better than he could dream of on this interview. this ability to actually carry a team is why i brought up cp3.

CP3 never had to carry the crap Tmac had in Orlando nor did he have to face as tough of an opposition to get out the first round. Again did CP3 make the shots for his teammates, did he rebound for them. No they did THEIR JOB. He spoke of how he needs talent around him, you know kind of how every winning team has that talent. And again Tmac now isnt at CP3's level so holding them to same standards proves your level of ridiculousness.


yes, cp3's team is very limited. chandler is only defense and rebounding, but paul made him an offensive threat. west was a nobody to most people, but we all know him now. stoya cant defend, and mo pete is the starting sg...doesnt matter. cp3 turned them into contenders. he elevates "his" game, by elevating everyone elses as well as his own scoring.

NO CP3's team isnt very limited, I dont see what you listing his teammates is suppose to prove they are all talented, especially when healthy. And no, IGNORANT people didnt know who West was, dont hold me to the same standards you do the common man. I KNOW who the players are and why they play that way. CP3 is a great player, greater than Tmac now but I dont know where your going with this. Its not Tmac's fault that his teammates couldnt deliver despite him giving them QUALITY shots. Not every player can be made better, you can only put them in a position to succeed, whether they do or dont ultimately falls on the player, not the leader.


yes, most espn analysts suggested the hornets would lose to dallas due to j kidd and the mavs playoff experience. yes most people though the hornets would ony get 5-6 games max against the spurs. thats fact

Name them and Ill show you why your a fool for believing them, nobody I respected thought they would lose, there was simply no basis for it.


and i said if he didnt let things get to him, he might be able to play well enough to get out the first round. that anxiety and pressure from the media gets to him and it limits him. it makes him feel he'll let everyone down if he loses and that negativity is a factor.

He already played well enough to get out the first round, your still not getting that. Its his teammates who couldnt raise THEIR game.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 04:32 PM
He was always a selfish. Don't you remember how he left Orlando? I can't fault him for wanting out of Toronto because they screwed with him but he totally quit on Orlando. It was disgraceful how he turned on them.
Whats disgraceful about it? And no, hes never been selfish. Unless wanting to win is selfish.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 04:34 PM
the celtics werent going to do anything last year without garnett. allen OR pierce could have gone down and it would have been ok. no kg meant maybe no playoffs.
LOL maybe?? Wow what great arguments you have. The Celtics werent going to win anything without Pierce either, stop dealin in absolutes.


KG changed the entire team with "his" defence but also elevating the rest of his team. he molded the entire team to commit to D. it just wouldnt have happen if russel never made that trade for KG.
Russell???? Are you ever accurate in your assessments?

Thib, Posey, Pierce, there were alot of reasons why the Celtics became a great defensive team. KG was the main force behind it but there was alot of credit the be spread around.


In all honesty, Mac is a factor this year. how big I cannot say. the fact is though, that artest is the most likely to be healthy and play all 82 games. he is the best defender on the team or at least top 2, and he is a monster on offense. he should actually be the one who is the leader. if they get out, artest put them over the top. he's already looking like a big brother to me. he's getting his numbers and playing D, but also getting techs by protecting mcgrady and yao. thats what i meant by its because of artest. he is the one doin w/e possible to put them over the top

Regular season wont be where they prove their worth.

sep11ie
11-05-2008, 04:38 PM
Yea, he lost the game...
Cause it was just him on floor..
Your just an idiot.

That dude is still a top five player in the league WHEN HEALTHY
And his D is way underrated. Try watching every game, not just what you see and hear on ESPN and ****. That station is trash now anyways.

LD V2.0
11-05-2008, 04:39 PM
Whats disgraceful about it? And no, hes never been selfish. Unless wanting to win is selfish.

He totally quit on his team, thats what.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 04:48 PM
He totally quit on his team, thats what.

You mean when they were out of the playoffs within the first half of the year. He carried them for 3 straight years with ZERO support, you would have a point if it was his first year and he stopped trying but for a guy with Tmac's health it wouldnt be in the best interest for his career/legacy to go all our on a team that wasnt going anywhere. If you cant understand that, then your just as big of a hater as barrel is. Should we start blaming all the players who stop trying once their team is obviously not going anywhere because I can tell you its a very long list with established players, heck even KG stopped playing and started missing games with "injuries".

He didnt play as hard as he could but he didnt go Vince Carter and not even try either, and Vince quit at the start of the season THATS disgraceful. What Tmac did was the SMART career move, let me ask you this. Would you rather have seen Jermaine play last year when he was with the Pacers and possibly be a lesser player for you guys now? Or would you rather him be fit and ready to play for your team? Jermaine made the same career move by not playing, in Tmac's case he was saving his back.

king2218
11-05-2008, 04:56 PM
why is everybody hating on T-Mac for saying the truth??? His teammates did suck in orlando!!! When you're starting center was Andrew Declerq or Steven hunter.....???? Are they even in the league??? And Tyron Lue as you starting point guard??? Drew Gooden as a starting power forward?? yea we saw how much BETTER Lebron made Gooden in Cleveland huh??? Tracy said the truth and there's no reason to be mad at him...Yea he lost his starting center and point guard last year which put an end to his playoffs hopes...Who can win without TWO starters (especially a top 5 center)??? Kobe lost in the finals and everybody were saying its because he didn't have andrew bynum...?

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 04:57 PM
Yea, he lost the game...
Cause it was just him on floor..
Your just an idiot.

That dude is still a top five player in the league WHEN HEALTHY
And his D is way underrated. Try watching every game, not just what you see and hear on ESPN and ****. That station is trash now anyways.

yea..im the idiot:rolleyes:

mac isnt even a top 5 perimter player when healthy. let alone top 5 in the league. i can name at least 5 wings off the top of my head that are hands down better or at least debateable.

lebron, wade, deron, cp3, kobe, joe johnson. looks like he may be at best a top 7 perimeter player...unless someone thinks melo, allen/pierce, or arenas are better.

so yea, im an idiot...must make you flat out ********

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 05:02 PM
why is everybody hating on T-Mac for saying the truth??? His teammates did suck in orlando!!! When you're starting center was Andrew Declerq or Steven hunter.....???? Are they even in the league??? And Tyron Lue as you starting point guard??? Drew Gooden as a starting power forward?? yea we saw how much BETTER Lebron made Gooden in Cleveland huh??? Tracy said the truth and there's no reason to be mad at him...Yea he lost his starting center and point guard last year which put an end to his playoffs hopes...Who can win without TWO starters (especially a top 5 center)??? Kobe lost in the finals and everybody were saying its because he didn't have andrew bynum...?

the man seriously asked if anyone else he played with is even in the league anymore....wtf? hill, was injured, but gooden is a very good player. lue is decent at best, but regardless...if he never let it get to him, it wouldnt matter. all i want is for him to say he is part of it.that it is partly his fault. hell, we've seen upsets before. lebron went to the finals, AI went to the finals, the warriors beat the mavs...why? heart...something he doesnt have. he wants better players...eff him.

king2218
11-05-2008, 05:08 PM
He did admit it was his fault as well as his team mates.....watch the interview, he said he tried his best.....and is anyone else besides tyron lue and drew gooden even in the league any more?

Chronz
11-05-2008, 05:25 PM
the man seriously asked if anyone else he played with is even in the league anymore....wtf? hill, was injured, but gooden is a very good player. lue is decent at best, but regardless...if he never let it get to him, it wouldnt matter. all i want is for him to say he is part of it.that it is partly his fault. hell, we've seen upsets before. lebron went to the finals, AI went to the finals, the warriors beat the mavs...why? heart...something he doesnt have. he wants better players...eff him.

Youve just proven tmacs point, what about the REST of the team?

And no it wasnt heart that won those series, and since when was AI going to the finals an upset? Barrel your just full of inaccuracies, its a trend Ive been noticing for awhile but will now start to point out. Your officially on my hitlist.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 05:30 PM
Only in opposite land where telling it how it is hurts.


What false gaurantee in 07? And he takes the blame, he just doesnt take undeserved blame. Key difference, again you have proven nothing.


CP3 never had to carry the crap Tmac had in Orlando nor did he have to face as tough of an opposition to get out the first round. Again did CP3 make the shots for his teammates, did he rebound for them. No they did THEIR JOB. He spoke of how he needs talent around him, you know kind of how every winning team has that talent. And again Tmac now isnt at CP3's level so holding them to same standards proves your level of ridiculousness.


NO CP3's team isnt very limited, I dont see what you listing his teammates is suppose to prove they are all talented, especially when healthy. And no, IGNORANT people didnt know who West was, dont hold me to the same standards you do the common man. I KNOW who the players are and why they play that way. CP3 is a great player, greater than Tmac now but I dont know where your going with this. Its not Tmac's fault that his teammates couldnt deliver despite him giving them QUALITY shots. Not every player can be made better, you can only put them in a position to succeed, whether they do or dont ultimately falls on the player, not the leader.


Name them and Ill show you why your a fool for believing them, nobody I respected thought they would lose, there was simply no basis for it.


He already played well enough to get out the first round, your still not getting that. Its his teammates who couldnt raise THEIR game.

the common man? get off ur damned pedestal dude. wtf you think this is....world of warcraft? get off your pedestal its a freakin basketball forum and you are the same as everyone else.

no tmac isnt on cp3's level. and he NEVER has been. cp3 has already done things mac could only dream of. he's already comparable to isaiah and is somewhat comparable to magic. regardless...it shows your rediculousness or maybe just your inept abilities, o other worldly god, to not be able to understand my point. instead you attack it like it wasnt right just because cp3 is better. please, lebron took his team further and who has he ever had? who has AI ever had? get out of here with them excuses dude. that seems to be all you're good for.

i believe it was 07 when he did that its on me if we lose. then whats he saying now? it still wasnt my fault...you said it was on you tmac...deal with it

cp3 has the crap mac did...and in a tougher conference. who is mo pete anymore? nobody. stoya...a shooter...replaceable. gooden and chandler are comparable. they are both rebounders and defenders and gooden is better at offense. west is the biggest difference in the 2 teams, but he alone doesnt make up for the conference gap of the east and west.

no paul cant make the shot for them...but he can make that shot much easier. i wont even argue how he, jordan, or many other greats have made their teammates better. if you cant see that, you really do have issues guy. cuz if you take paul away for that team, they do nothing. memphis would probably contend with them regularly.

and my KG statement was valid. im not the first to say that. He changed the mentality and culture of th eteam. he enabled it all to happen. yes, there were other pieces but non bigger than KG. Allen or pierce could have gone down. KG and the one that remained would have been enough to definately buy them some time. hell they still would have been contenders without one of them.

and please correct me if im wrong but wasnt it russel and mchale that enabled the trade to happen? something along those lines...again, i could be wrong, but russel definately had something to do with it.

and no, the regular season isnt where you prove your worth, but it IS more important than people like you give it credit for. its like the popular vote vs electoral college. you need 1 for the other. here you need th ereg season to set up the post season seedings. seedings are EVERYTHING. make it easiest on yourself to advance. but we've already had that discussion before. this is all beside the point tho. artest will be the regular season leader, but it seemed you suggest he wont do anything special in the post season...he will definately be more crucial to their success than mcgrady in th epost season because tehy'll rely on him on both ends.

and yep...what tmac did by quitting on orlando was brilliant. instead of staying in th ekiddie conference and drafting dwight, he got traded, and still hasnt won anything more...great career move. and please...dont call me a hater. i respect everyone that deserves it. but once you dont, i lose respect for you. when you degrade your teammates and act like a kid, like you deserve no blame...you lose my respect. he had my respect back when. he used to be a fav of mine. back in the day havin his shoes and jersey and stuff. that boi was cold. now hes washed up at age 30 and takes it out on others when he was the leader. at least when lebron complains he still can elevate his team and push everyone further

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 05:34 PM
Youve just proven tmacs point, what about the REST of the team?

And no it wasnt heart that won those series, and since when was AI going to the finals an upset? Barrel your just full of inaccuracies, its a trend Ive been noticing for awhile but will now start to point out. Your officially on my hitlist.

on ur hitlist?? who the heck are you? fidel castro? jason bourne??? im sooo lost, cuz i thought you were a normal person. i forgot...ur not a common man. eff that dude. and yes, it was heart that got them by. AI had nobody on his team...his number 2 option was who??? Mckie??? Lebron hasnt had quality talent either but they got past detroit. honestly, as much as i dont prove...u r very much the same. often instead of sticking to a point or understanding it...you try to downgrade it, teh writer, or instead you go off an outlying part of the bigger argument to make things more favorable for yoy. dude. ur just like tmac.

I could have proven his point before and I will now. greatness(championships) require great teams. nobody will, has, or ever will do it on his own. however, i argued against his point. by throwing out that AI and Lebron, and even the warriors have gone far with nothing(or in the warriors case trumped a 1 seed as an 8)...tell me...how does that work for him?

Rockets4Life
11-05-2008, 05:36 PM
the man seriously asked if anyone else he played with is even in the league anymore....wtf? hill, was injured, but gooden is a very good player. lue is decent at best, but regardless...if he never let it get to him, it wouldnt matter. all i want is for him to say he is part of it.that it is partly his fault. hell, we've seen upsets before. lebron went to the finals, AI went to the finals, the warriors beat the mavs...why? heart...something he doesnt have. he wants better players...eff him.

Please dude? The warriors beat the mavs cause the warriors just ran all over them. The warriors simple wanted it more. Plain and simple. If you watched that series, the mavs didnt want to play. They went into the playoffs thinking playing the number 8 seed was going to be a walk in the park. It wasn't cause they had heart. I guess when the warriors played a better team in utah there heart failed on them. Lebron is just a younger T-mac in his orlando years. Scoring 30 a night and playing in the Eastern conference. Soon enough Lebron will be having injuries. Gooden was not a very good player 5-6 years ago. Lue is crap. T-mac has done everything he can possible do. Every year T-mac does not have a walk in the park first round series like alot of people have. Lebron is playing the wizards every year. Please, let the rockets play them in the first round and for sure T-mac will get to the 2nd round. T-mac has nothing but heart. The only thing T-mac has is bad luck.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 05:41 PM
He did admit it was his fault as well as his team mates.....watch the interview, he said he tried his best.....and is anyone else besides tyron lue and drew gooden even in the league any more?

i have NEVER seen him admit it was him unless he was being sarcastic. he didnt there either. he kept arguing that he elevated "his" game so it mustve been someone else. Ive been in his position on a lesser level. and it sucks. that you score soooo much and you dont win. that you embarrass your opponent but they beat you...it sucks terribly. but you know what i did? i blamed myself and thought of what i was doing wrong and how to improve myself and my teammates. you know what he does???makes excuses and places blame on others.

Chronz
11-05-2008, 05:42 PM
on ur hitlist?? who the heck are you? fidel castro? i forgot...ur not a common man.
If you think your a common basketball fan then I have even less respect for you. And yes my hitlist, as in whenever you point out inaccuracies I will be there to correct you.


and yes, it was heart that got them by.
Nope and Ill prove it;


AI had nobody on his team...his number 2 was who???
Dikembe Mutombo, and since when does a team of nobodies win EVERY INDIVIDUAL AWARD? See how easy your posts are man, put some effort PLEASE!!


Lebron hasnt had quality talent either but they got past detroit.
Hes had quality talent but Bron is a special case, hes the exception that proves the rule but even he needed a surprise role player to step up (BOOBIE) to get past Detroit. But more than anyone Bron raises his game in the playoffs, giving his depleted team an even great chance of winning. No question there.



honestly, as much as i dont prove...u r very much the same.
We are nothing alike, I attack your posts directly, you summarize your thoughts, a rinse and repeat is the type of poster I would describe you as.


often instead of sticking to a point or understanding it...you try to downgrade it,
Incorrect, I downgrade its importance BECAUSE I understand it. To me its like you telling me 3+2=4 and me going on saying that its not accurate.



teh writer, or instead you go off an outlying part of the bigger argument to make things more favorable for yoy. dude. ur just like tmac.

Youve yet to name them so Im pretty confident in my opinion of them. Im willing to bet the same people that thought Dallas would win were the same morons who thought trading for Kidd was a great move.


Ive got to go to work now, so Ill destroy your other post another day.K BYE

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 05:49 PM
Please dude? The warriors beat the mavs cause the warriors just ran all over them. The warriors simple wanted it more. Plain and simple. If you watched that series, the mavs didnt want to play. They went into the playoffs thinking playing the number 8 seed was going to be a walk in the park. It wasn't cause they had heart. I guess when the warriors played a better team in utah there heart failed on them. Lebron is just a younger T-mac in his orlando years. Scoring 30 a night and playing in the Eastern conference. Soon enough Lebron will be having injuries. Gooden was not a very good player 5-6 years ago. Lue is crap. T-mac has done everything he can possible do. Every year T-mac does not have a walk in the park first round series like alot of people have. Lebron is playing the wizards every year. Please, let the rockets play them in the first round and for sure T-mac will get to the 2nd round. T-mac has nothing but heart. The only thing T-mac has is bad luck.

you contradicted yourself. you say the warriors wanted it more, and then said they didnt have heart. which one is it? they had heart, and yes, the mavs had less heart but the warriors definately had heart.

Lebron is better now than tmac ever was statistically. yes, the scoring is about equal but the assists and rebounds arent. And it could be argued that im a huge lebron hater because ive said numerous times that he hasnt played anyone real, and the finals was a fluke....it was a fluke. but it did show the importance of seedings, but he still had to beat the pistons to get there. if mcgrady wanted an easier 1st round then win or lose more and affect where you place...or better yet, he couldve stayed in the soft east and had dwight howard. lol.

ur a rockets fan tho...of course ur gonna defend tmac. just like id defend kobe.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 06:04 PM
If you think your a common basketball fan then I have even less respect for you. And yes my hitlist, as in whenever you point out inaccuracies I will be there to correct you.


Nope and Ill prove it;


Dikembe Mutombo, and since when does a team of nobodies win EVERY INDIVIDUAL AWARD? See how easy your posts are man, put some effort PLEASE!!


Hes had quality talent but Bron is a special case, hes the exception that proves the rule but even he needed a surprise role player to step up (BOOBIE) to get past Detroit. But more than anyone Bron raises his game in the playoffs, giving his depleted team an even great chance of winning. No question there.



We are nothing alike, I attack your posts directly, you summarize your thoughts, a rinse and repeat is the type of poster I would describe you as.


Incorrect, I downgrade its importance BECAUSE I understand it. To me its like you telling me 3+2=4 and me going on saying that its not accurate.



Youve yet to name them so Im pretty confident in my opinion of them. Im willing to bet the same people that thought Dallas would win were the same morons who thought trading for Kidd was a great move.


Ive got to go to work now, so Ill destroy your other post another day.K BYE

ok jason bourne...be there to correct me. im glad i mean that much to a lame warcraft guy. it does feel good to be a target.

mutumbo averaged less than 12 per game in both years he played for them. if that counts as a second option, you more than proved my point...see how easy your posts are??? make it more difficult, PLEASE!!!! lame.

and wow...boobie gibson...lol, the man cant even start. yes, he stepped up. thats his job, but seriously...if you have to name a bench player as the reason that they won a series, your arguments are worse than you claim mine are. lebron had no significant help...the finals proved that.

i summarize my thoughts? actually my problem is i expound upon them too much instead of making them point blank and simple.

no...you downgrade because you dont see the main point. we proved that before when we argued about weed. you are too inept to see a valid point...its okay. i mean, maybe you cant help it.

and i dont have to name them when its already happened earlier. read my and your earlier posts just in this thread if you want examples. stop bein so ignorant. PLEASE!!!

and its cool. i have to go to the gym now then work...i know...ive got a better body than you probably do mr warcraft. its ok tho. when you get home, you can watch your games, play warcraft, and laze around gettin fatter. not saying that you definately are fat, but it wouldnt surprise me. you seem like a huge lame...no offense. lol.

LD V2.0
11-05-2008, 06:05 PM
You mean when they were out of the playoffs within the first half of the year. He carried them for 3 straight years with ZERO support, you would have a point if it was his first year and he stopped trying but for a guy with Tmac's health it wouldnt be in the best interest for his career/legacy to go all our on a team that wasnt going anywhere. If you cant understand that, then your just as big of a hater as barrel is. Should we start blaming all the players who stop trying once their team is obviously not going anywhere because I can tell you its a very long list with established players, heck even KG stopped playing and started missing games with "injuries".

He didnt play as hard as he could but he didnt go Vince Carter and not even try either, and Vince quit at the start of the season THATS disgraceful. What Tmac did was the SMART career move, let me ask you this. Would you rather have seen Jermaine play last year when he was with the Pacers and possibly be a lesser player for you guys now? Or would you rather him be fit and ready to play for your team? Jermaine made the same career move by not playing, in Tmac's case he was saving his back.

Tmac looked defeated on the court. Jermaine's story is different. He was coming back from horrible injuries. Jermaine never gave up, he gave it his all while on the court. He just didn't have as much to give last year.

Rockets4Life
11-05-2008, 06:08 PM
you contradicted yourself. you say the warriors wanted it more, and then said they didnt have heart. which one is it? they had heart, and yes, the mavs had less heart but the warriors definately had heart.

Lebron is better now than tmac ever was statistically. yes, the scoring is about equal but the assists and rebounds arent. And it could be argued that im a huge lebron hater because ive said numerous times that he hasnt played anyone real, and the finals was a fluke....it was a fluke. but it did show the importance of seedings, but he still had to beat the pistons to get there. if mcgrady wanted an easier 1st round then win or lose more and affect where you place...or better yet, he couldve stayed in the soft east and had dwight howard. lol.

ur a rockets fan tho...of course ur gonna defend tmac. just like id defend kobe.


No I said The warriors wanted it more, you said they had heart. I then said when they played Utah the next round, there heart must of failed cause they lost. I'm not defending him just cause I'm a rockets fan. I'm just stating my own opinion of what I think of him. You cant tell me that every year in the playoff's he has elevated his game. In the playoffs, he is a monster. Look at his stats. Dont get me started on Kobe. Kobe crying before last year he wanted out, trade me. Phil had to talk him out of it. Then they get Paul Gasol and he loves the Lakers and crap like that. I'm not saying T-mac has done nothing wrong or that he is god. I'm simply saying that he has done everything he could have possibly done in his career to get by the first round. Not his fault. He tried.

Jay22Redd
11-05-2008, 06:18 PM
if he doesnt play defense, his team isnt goin anywhere. Ray Ray lit him up tonight

True. That's why I hope Battier comes back in full affect to hold Ray Ray.

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 06:28 PM
No I said The warriors wanted it more, you said they had heart. I then said when they played Utah the next round, there heart must of failed cause they lost. I'm not defending him just cause I'm a rockets fan. I'm just stating my own opinion of what I think of him. You cant tell me that every year in the playoff's he has elevated his game. In the playoffs, he is a monster. Look at his stats. Dont get me started on Kobe. Kobe crying before last year he wanted out, trade me. Phil had to talk him out of it. Then they get Paul Gasol and he loves the Lakers and crap like that. I'm not saying T-mac has done nothing wrong or that he is god. I'm simply saying that he has done everything he could have possibly done in his career to get by the first round. Not his fault. He tried.

honestly, you misunderstand...i do not care at all how well he plays. i care that he doesnt want blame. i care that he doesnt acknowledge any teammate which to me shows no comradery back when they played together. he didnt deserve to win. teams are like families...boston...wade n shaq...kobe and shaq r str8,...jordan and pip...his inability to recall his teammates and only give them blame says they werent close. thats the business side of it though.

the warriors did have heart. thats what it means to want it more. to defy the odds...that hunger...its called heart where im from...guess you call heart something different. regardless it was a matchup thing. the jazz matched up waaay better than dallas did. the jazz had a lot more heart than dallas did too. but its beside my point. my point is that upsets can happen. there is always more you can do. thats the truth, no matter how hard the situation or it is to believe.

kobe is a great talent; yes, he has done thing people would disagree with. yes, he wanted a better situation and team, and yes now that they have that, he is happier. what can i really say about that? its human nature. but even when he lost...he could actually take blame. thats all i want from mac. kobe got his *** handed to him in the finals, but he handles himself charismaticly in every interview. he isnt crying anymore, hes saying yes it happened, it hurt badly, but lets move on. see the difference in the 2?

8kobe24
11-05-2008, 07:06 PM
Tmac has great offensive skills, and I have always admired him for that. The fact remains that his D is inconsistent and he doesn't like being blamed for his team's short coming. Tmac is not a leader, nor will he ever be.

Rockets4Life
11-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Blame? thats all you want? T-mac said it last year in a conversation that if they dont win it's all on him. He's the one to blame. Its all on his shoulders. What more do you want from the guy?

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 07:36 PM
8kobe24- i agree 100

rockets4life- you cant really count that. he said IF we lose, blame it on me. that was 2 years ago, and he was baited or even pushed into saying that since, he still acts like he cant take blame. last year was his sarcastic "its my fault" rant. this year, its this convo...for now at least. he doesnt accept criticism nor blame. he doesnt carry himself well..or at least how he should. but its like 8kobe24 said, he isnt a leader. he doesnt want to be the leader either.

Lakers4ItAll
11-05-2008, 10:45 PM
Tmac got lucky by getting Artest as a Teamate

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 11:30 PM
i wouldnt really call it luck. id just call it having a good GM. a little fortunate because he could have gone to LA or miami, but its ok. it would have been something if he went to LA, but it wouldve cost us our 6th man, and it seems ariza is stepping up quite nicely

barreleffact
11-05-2008, 11:50 PM
You guys see Stephen A's convo with kobe? He didnt degrade his team. he never once said anything negative. He said it doesnt matter, its in the past, and we got beat by a better defensive team and defense wins championships. he didnt get baited, flustered, anything. thats what it is to be a leader. he accepted the loss, but said we gotta push forward. he wants to be a laker. he wants to have a great image. his image is imprortant to him, but you will see him and accept him for who he is and he wants us all to see him for who he is.

CHRONZ...that was a great interview...tmacs was garbage

tonyd3b54
11-06-2008, 12:14 AM
barrel is completely blinded by his hatred for tmac... that interveiw was not bad at all...

Lakers4ItAll
11-06-2008, 12:20 AM
Exactly!


You guys see Stephen A's convo with kobe? He didnt degrade his team. he never once said anything negative. He said it doesnt matter, its in the past, and we got beat by a better defensive team and defense wins championships. he didnt get baited, flustered, anything. thats what it is to be a leader. he accepted the loss, but said we gotta push forward. he wants to be a laker. he wants to have a great image. his image is imprortant to him, but you will see him and accept him for who he is and he wants us all to see him for who he is.

barreleffact
11-06-2008, 02:03 AM
barrel is completely blinded by his hatred for tmac... that interveiw was not bad at all...

his interview was the same as his past ones. ever since at least the 07 season he's a whiner and not a winner. he places blame instead of accepting it and using it as motivation. when even once did he praise anyone not named artest in that video? not once, but he did admit to giving up. he did degrade his teammates. he even almost came out and said he doesnt want to be a leader. stephen A tried to get him to say that he is the leader and all that, but he was like "maybe...idk"...it just wasnt good. he isnt meant to be a number 1 guy. and im not a tmac hater at all. i just dont respect him anymore. he used to be a great player, but now he's frail mentaly. and as a player i respect him, but i refuse to respect a weak mentality...esp in a supposed star or leader.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:41 AM
the common man? get off ur damned pedestal dude. wtf you think this is....world of warcraft? get off your pedestal its a freakin basketball forum and you are the same as everyone else.
Ive never played world of warcraft so your example is lost on me, either way what are you talking about, we are all abviously not the same. I highly doubt the majority here take basketball as seriously as I do, and the ones that do I value above everyone else. Those are the posters I respect the most, so again if you think your the same as the average poster here on PSD then I have even less respect for you and probably wont continue this foolish debate.




no tmac isnt on cp3's level. and he NEVER has been. cp3 has already done things mac could only dream of. he's already comparable to isaiah and is somewhat comparable to magic.
Coming from you that means next to nothing, Tmac has had several incredible seasons CP3 has only 1 truly great one but the rest were damn good just not T-Mac in his prime caliber, but what has CP3 done that Mac can only dream of? What are these insane accomplishments that Tmac is utterly incapable of. If you say get out of the first round then your more predictable than I even imagined but Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you actually have some sort of analysis on the subject.



regardless...it shows your rediculousness or maybe just your inept abilities, o other worldly god, to not be able to understand my point. instead you attack it like it wasnt right just because cp3 is better. please, lebron took his team further and who has he ever had?

Inept abilities? LOL is that you trying to sound articulate. Anyway instead of copying my insults just keep it simple. And no you werent right, you rarely are.


who has AI ever had? get out of here with them excuses dude. that seems to be all you're good for.
They're called logical deductions, and you asking me who AI has ever played with proves my point. Thanks


i believe it was 07 when he did that its on me if we lose. then whats he saying now? it still wasnt my fault...you said it was on you tmac...deal with it
He said that to relieve his teammates of pressure, he sensed they were pressing and he was right (look at their play in the postseason compared to the regular season), he still takes responsibility for his play (which he raised vs regular season Mac) but when it comes to why the team didnt advance, the rest of the squad played well below their abilities. If they had just played somewhat well, the Rockets wouldve won, despite the Jazz being a more complete team.


cp3 has the crap mac did...and in a tougher conference. who is mo pete anymore? nobody. stoya...a shooter...replaceable. gooden and chandler are comparable. they are both rebounders and defenders and gooden is better at offense. west is the biggest difference in the 2 teams, but he alone doesnt make up for the conference gap of the east and west.

Oh man your getting pathetic, Gooden a defender (LMFAO.....) and yes a 10 million dollar a year shooter is EASILY replaced (how good were they without him since hes been a Hornet?), obviously he wasnt worth his contract but hes more than a shooter, hes an ELITE SHOOTER, CP3 has never had to carry a team the way Tmac carried the Magic, not even close. Gooden and Chandler are comparable LOL except for the fact that Tyson is way better, thats why Chandler got a huge contract when he was sucking in Chicago while Gooden in a career year couldnt get Chandler money. West is an All-Star, Mo Pete wouldve started in some of those years in Orlando, so if hes a nobody then I guess that makes Giricek a nobody who cant defend.


no paul cant make the shot for them...but he can make that shot much easier. i wont even argue how he, jordan, or many other greats have made their teammates better. if you cant see that, you really do have issues guy. cuz if you take paul away for that team, they do nothing. memphis would probably contend with them regularly.

Are you suggesting that the Magic without Tmac wouldve been legit contenders? Whats the point of mentioning that without him they wouldnt be great? They would still be much better than the Magic without Tmac. And Tmac is one of the best passers at his position so your basically backing my point. Hes easily the best interior passer in the league (Among SG's) and great at running an offense. Artest will benefit from playing with such a gifted passer. He provides the easy opportunities, its up to them to make it. If Tmac can get Chuck FREAKIN Hayes easy opportunities then it says alot about his ability to make players around him better.


and my KG statement was valid. im not the first to say that. He changed the mentality and culture of th eteam. he enabled it all to happen. yes, there were other pieces but non bigger than KG.
I never said it wasnt, re-read my post


Allen or pierce could have gone down. KG and the one that remained would have been enough to definately buy them some time.
Thats an entirely different stance, but Ill play along. They wouldnt have won without Pierce, and they didnt exactly struggle in the games KG missed so you thinking that the team would suddenly fall apart without him is pretty ironic. He was their MVP, but without Pierce they arent contenders, regardless of what bs you come up with.


hell they still would have been contenders without one of them.
KG didnt think so, its why he didnt allow himself to be traded until they got Ray WITH Pierce. Again Id rather take KG's opinion over yours, have any problem with that stance or will you simply ignore it the way you always do when I have you trapped in a corner?


and please correct me if im wrong but wasnt it russel and mchale that enabled the trade to happen? something along those lines...again, i could be wrong, but russel definately had something to do with it.
Nope youd be wrong, AGAIN. Danny Ainge made the trade happen, Ainge stockpiled the young talent to make it possible.


and no, the regular season isnt where you prove your worth, but it IS more important than people like you give it credit for. its like the popular vote vs electoral college. you need 1 for the other. here you need th ereg season to set up the post season seedings. seedings are EVERYTHING. make it easiest on yourself to advance. but we've already had that discussion before. this is all beside the point tho. artest will be the regular season leader, but it seemed you suggest he wont do anything special in the post season...he will definately be more crucial to their success than mcgrady in th epost season because tehy'll rely on him on both ends.
How would you know how much stock I put into the regular season? Artest wont be the leader, he didnt go there to be the leader, he came to be the enforcer that gets them over the hump and he knows this, its why hes already said its Yao and Mac's team, and everyone knows Yao is the MIP for the Rockets. And how important both will be this season depends on their roles and how they fulfill them, they really dont have an identity yet with Artest being new and Battier not around, Tmac recovering from knee surgury and Yao still regaining his strength. This is another reason people should take your opinion on the Rockets with a grain of salt, the team is a virtual unknown this early in the season yet here you are, already acting like you know more about the team than the team itself. Facts are, we havent seen this team at full strength so suggesting anything at this point is fallible, thus your logic is fallible. As for you thinking Im saying Artest wont do **** in the post-season, you couldnt be more wrong (maybe you could be Im being polite here). I was merely stating the playoffs is where this team will make a name for themselves, everyone knows they are going to win 50+ and be one of the top teams in the West, theyve done that every year Tmac and Yao have been healthy. And that considering Tmac's history I expect his level of play to raise dramatically in the post season, whereas Artest will level off and be the same player. Im hoping he exceeds expectations because I want to see the Rockets succeed but the difference in Artest's level of play (regular season vs playoffs) isnt as glorious as Tmacs, so even if Artest is better than Mac I wouldnt expect that to be the case in the playoffs. Tmac's body is breaking down, hes simply incapable of sustaining greatness for 82 games, but come playoff time he always dials it up a notch. He did it last year with a bum knee and a bad shoulder so I cant even imagine what he could do if hes atleast relatively healthy come playoff time.



and yep...what tmac did by quitting on orlando was brilliant. instead of staying in th ekiddie conference and drafting dwight, he got traded, and still hasnt won anything more...great career move.
Your such a child, so now your blaming Tmac for not being able to predict the future (HS Kid or emerging All-Star in Yao???). I was expecting more from you man, I will not be making that mistake again, (maybe I shouldnt give you the benefit of the doubt). But lets pretend you did have a point, what does that say other than he wanted a challenge? So your either dumb enough to blame Tmac for not being able to predic the future, or idiotic enough to blame Tmac for wanting a better situation but more of a challenge, which is it, I guess it doesnt matter.


and please... dont call me a hater. i respect everyone that deserves it. but once you dont, i lose respect for you. when you degrade your teammates and act like a kid, like you deserve no blame...you lose my respect. he had my respect back when. he used to be a fav of mine. back in the day havin his shoes and jersey and stuff. that boi was cold. now hes washed up at age 30 and takes it out on others when he was the leader. at least when lebron complains he still can elevate his team and push everyone further

Your a hater because your criticism isnt justified, when Tmac talks the way he does its for people like you. Name something he wasnt right about, and yes Tmac is so washed up. Answer me this, if a washed up Tmac can be an MVP candidate (top 10) and an All-League performer, then how good was he in his prime? SCARY GOOD

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:43 AM
Tmac looked defeated on the court. Jermaine's story is different. He was coming back from horrible injuries. Jermaine never gave up, he gave it his all while on the court. He just didn't have as much to give last year.

No man Jermaine said so himself, and he didnt give his all, in fact he didnt even play despite being fit to and having a team that was actually in the playoff race. He said it was a career move and Bird didnt agree with it.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:49 AM
ok jason bourne...be there to correct me. im glad i mean that much to a lame warcraft guy. it does feel good to be a target.
Again with the war craft.


mutumbo averaged less than 12 per game in both years he played for them. if that counts as a second option, you more than proved my point...see how easy your posts are??? make it more difficult, PLEASE!!!! lame.

LOL I never said he was an offensive player


and wow...boobie gibson...lol, the man cant even start. yes, he stepped up. thats his job, but seriously...if you have to name a bench player as the reason that they won a series, your arguments are worse than you claim mine are. lebron had no significant help...the finals proved that.

Think about it, if a player who nobody expects to explode it gives his team a huge boost, think Kareem Rush when he played the T'wolves. Its his job to go off the way he did? Not likely hes not that good.


i summarize my thoughts? actually my problem is i expound upon them too much instead of making them point blank and simple.

You summarize because you dont directly attack my posts. And if thats you expanding I feel really bad for you.


no...you downgrade because you dont see the main point. we proved that before when we argued about weed. you are too inept to see a valid point...its okay. i mean, maybe you cant help it.

Show me the post


and i dont have to name them when its already happened earlier. read my and your earlier posts just in this thread if you want examples. stop bein so ignorant. PLEASE!!!

Exactly, you cant provide the facts. Whats happened earlier, your english typing abilities arent very coherent.


and its cool. i have to go to the gym now then work...i know...ive got a better body than you probably do mr warcraft. its ok tho. when you get home, you can watch your games, play warcraft, and laze around gettin fatter. not saying that you definately are fat, but it wouldnt surprise me. you seem like a huge lame...no offense. lol.

Can you be any more pathetic? Yes mr buff man, you know youve lost when you resort to these tactics.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:52 AM
You guys see Stephen A's convo with kobe? He didnt degrade his team. he never once said anything negative. He said it doesnt matter, its in the past, and we got beat by a better defensive team and defense wins championships. he didnt get baited, flustered, anything. thats what it is to be a leader. he accepted the loss, but said we gotta push forward. he wants to be a laker. he wants to have a great image. his image is imprortant to him, but you will see him and accept him for who he is and he wants us all to see him for who he is.

CHRONZ...that was a great interview...tmacs was garbage

Yes because Kobe has NEVER, not a once, degraded his teammates, heck Kobe loves players on other teams.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:59 AM
his interview was the same as his past ones. ever since at least the 07 season he's a whiner and not a winner. he places blame instead of accepting it and using it as motivation. when even once did he praise anyone not named artest in that video? not once, but he did admit to giving up. he did degrade his teammates. he even almost came out and said he doesnt want to be a leader. stephen A tried to get him to say that he is the leader and all that, but he was like "maybe...idk"...it just wasnt good. he isnt meant to be a number 1 guy. and im not a tmac hater at all. i just dont respect him anymore. he used to be a great player, but now he's frail mentaly. and as a player i respect him, but i refuse to respect a weak mentality...esp in a supposed star or leader.

Tmac has a ton of motivation, if you knew more about him you would know this. He accepts the criticism just so long as its justified. Nothing weak about telling it how it is, unless logical deductions = garbage in your mind.... er wait it does.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 06:10 AM
Look barrel if you want to debate then it would help if you quoted me but if thats too hard for you to manage then dont waste both of our times. Ive been able to keep up thus far but as the conversation lengthens it will only result in me asking you what the **** are you talking about. I noticed that you were on and were replying what I assume was a lengthy post so I hope that your taking my advice, but please Im asking you with the utmost respect, QUOTE ME.

barreleffact
11-06-2008, 06:31 AM
Chronz....I dont care enough to dissect every sentence or paragraph so i will summarize(although itll be a long summary)

1. You may have never played world of warcraft, you may not be a fat lazy piece of ..., but you have the personality of a warcraft fanatical nerd(and i hope no1 else takes that offensively. its cool to like a game or anime or anything but some people go overboard...like when you think you arent on the level of others...hilarious o god)

I understand your point of thinking you know soooo much, but you dont. I dont. I know enough to get by and definately enough to argue something, otherwise I generally dont like to waste my time. who likes to lose? so yea, get a grip on reality mr bourne

2. Getting out of the first round is pretty big actually. But no matter what I say, you wouldnt agree nor even understand. If i cant pull out plaques or awards or anything else...it wont be a valid enough reason to you.

Paul is a winner and a leader...mac implies he doesnt want to be a leader(this interview isnt the first time ive gotten that from him either). Paul elevates his team...mac elevates "his" game.

Actual accomplishments- how about the fact that Paul led his team to 2nd in the west with a decent supporting cast, but no real superstar? Has Mac? How about the fact that Paul was 2nd in MVP voting ALREADY...how high has mac ever gotten?

thats enough n my mind to warrant that he is a dream player and above anything mac has ever been. Mac may go down as a HoFer...scratch that, he probably will. Paul is already making a case to be in th egreatest of all time category. If he just maintains, he will go down anywhere from 3rd-20th best EVER!!! He could seriously surpass Magic...Mac was a stud back in teh day, but he wasnt ever gonna be in that elite company IMO(and dont say he would have been. hed've had to do some seriously rediculous stuff to even come close to being anywhere near top 50)

3- yes...i called you inept. you are. prove me wrong. you think im wrong a lot, but you are just as much if not more. You may be able to support a false argument better(at times) but generally the point that you are arguing is wrong...like here.

4- umm no...asking you who he's played with wasnt a literal question mr bourne. it was meant to say that AI has never had anyone great if you are too inept to understand that.

5- actually he was goated into saying it by Stephen A. Stephen wanted to pull the most out of him. He wasnt trying to relieve pressure from anyone. He was saying that that was his best opportunity so far to have gotten out...and it was. it was NOT to take pressure off anyone.

6- stop putting words in my mouth. i never said he was "easily" replaceable. i said he's replaceable. he is. korver is just as good, posey is all around better...just to name a couple. and Tyson is NOT waay better. Gooden is better at creating his own offense and probably offensive rebounding. Rebounding as a whole is pretty equal. but tyson has the defensive edge...all around, they are pretty comparable talent wise- not style/athleticism wise. West is only an allstar because of paul. itd be fruitless to argue against that. he isnt an elite rebounder and a lot of his shots are wide open by cp3's penetration.

7- no, im not implying that a macless orlando team would have been anything, but a paulless hornet club certainly isnt either. mac is one of the better passers for his position...so what. passing alone doesnt make them better. maybe its execution, not the actual occurrance because they both draw doubles, and they both hit up their teammates. but maybe paul does it at the perfect time...or maybe...just MAYBE...paul actually trusts and respects his team.IDK..mac seems like a selfish jerk/*******...regardless the fact remains that paul elevates his team and mac doesnt to that extent. that was the entire point. how many ways do i have to spell it out for your inept non point seeing tail?

8- championships follow big men. You can get by in the regular season w/o 1 and his team stepped up.(though it was only what? like 2 weeks or so?) they played well. in the post season, where a post presence matters...they wouldve been nothing without KG. Allen proved my point that he AND pierce arent entirely necessary. He had an abismal 1st 2 series.

9-Who the hell wanted to go to boston??? nobody wanted to go there. They were losers for how long? they had no direction nor anything else to put him in a better position than he was in minnesota. When Ray got traded, he wouldve been stupid to not go to a team that has 2 legit allstars already. that proves your point right? taht he didnt think so. however...who else did they get? it wasnt just KG and Allen. there were a lot of changes that offseason. and the fact that there were more, helps mine. ONE could go down. during the season they had the depth to make up for it.

10- Ainge..russel...russel is part of the office is he not?

11- I know exactly how much you value theregular season...is your memory so lacking that you cannot recall our earlier arguments? some have been pretty big...liek when we spoke on weed...another time you proved how unable to understand a point, when you thought i was arguing that weed is only to certain people when in fact i had already said weed doesnt discriminate. its everywhere. the other huge argument was about THIS...you argued taht its dumb to lose to have a better seeding. you said always win or you lack heart, etc, etc. you couldnt be more wrong. make it easiest on yourself and advance as far as possible with the weakest competition you can.

Yes! Artest has admitted he isnt going to be the leader. only an idiot would think he will be. I said, he SHOULD be. he will be the most consistant player they have. by that I mean He is the most likely to play EVERY game and the most likely to guard the best player.

again, you make sooo many excuses for mac. its his job to play. injured or otehrwise. what the hell did jordan say when he was sick in the playoffs? put me in the game..wait he may not have said anything. he just went out and dropped an unearthly amount to win. AI is ALWAYS injured yet they went to the finals. I read he had something like 13 injuries that ECF series. I dont give a flip about mcgrady's injuries. they happen. no excuses.

12- no...im not saying mac could predict the future. Im jusat saying that karma is a B...He got what he deserved. Nothing more...sure it seemed smart at the time to walk from what was eventually D12. thast great that he made the smarter choice...how'd it work out for him? not too well. Players are drafted every year that are the next HUGE thing. having the number 1 pic means he shouldve thought a little deeper.

13- mac was great in his prime... i dont recall ever saying anything bad nor untrue about him. i just said hes selfish, cant elevate his team, and isnt a leader. he was still a good scorer.

14- you never "said" he was an offensive player, however i said who was AI's second option. everyone knew mutumbo was a defensive beast, but option is obviously ann offensive term....or ar you too inept to understand that?

15- if i summarized, it would be short mr bourne. that is an implication of a summary. a summary is str8 and too the point. how is it a summary to attack outlying details? it isnt. can you be more difficult to disprove...please!!! i could use an actual challenge instead of wasting my time with your argument. you suck dude. you really do. your incompetence is unreal at times.

16- look for it. i dont have time to say when and where you did something. in all honesty i couldnt care less. you seem like the type to love to disprove someone. look it up mr bourne. I am on your "hitlist" remember??? pathetic

17- You didnt say you arent fat and lazy so i mustve been right. lol.

18- so...ur saying this interview sucks because kobe has had other bad ones??? thats odd. i think mac's interview sucks because of what he said in this one...maybe you just couldnt argue against my actual point so you bring up the past...its cool. thats a loser's mentality. you seem to fit the bill. just admit that kobe had a nice interview and handled the situation/ questions on a level tmac cant(or at least didnt)

19- again, you picked out 1 thing and couldnt argue the rest. i never said tmac has no motivation, i said he doesnt use the blame as motivation. how can he if he doesnt accept the blame? prove to me one time where he does accept it...please, by all means do. regardless if his team was trash, that isnt something you let out. it was YOUR team...you have to man up and accept that. thats all. w/e tho. kobe handled his interview very well and i hope mac learns from it.

barreleffact
11-06-2008, 06:34 AM
Look barrel if you want to debate then it would help if you quoted me but if thats too hard for you to manage then dont waste both of our times. Ive been able to keep up thus far but as the conversation lengthens it will only result in me asking you what the **** are you talking about. I noticed that you were on and were replying what I assume was a lengthy post so I hope that your taking my advice, but please Im asking you with the utmost respect, QUOTE ME.

its too long to quote. honestly i dont care enough to do it like you do. you cut up every piece and its just...too much for me. i did however number my post so it shouldnt be too hard to understand. it goes from the oldest post to the newest one. starts with the top of the oldest post and works down, then works to the next post and starts from the top of that one..."rinse and repeat"

regardless...im on your "hitlist" you should be more than willing to do the research. by any means necessary you HAVE to disprove me...:)

Faneik
11-06-2008, 07:52 AM
And no, IGNORANT people didnt know who West was, dont hold me to the same standards you do the common man.


I highly doubt the majority here take basketball as seriously as I do...

You get this recognition by me: you're arrogant.

Don't take this post too seriously, I'm just one of the common average posters in PSD.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 02:03 PM
You get this recognition by me: you're arrogant.

Don't take this post too seriously, I'm just one of the common average posters in PSD.
Yea Ive never seen your posts so you probably are, dont take offense, but I KNOW high basketball IQ when I see it. And there are a ton of them on PSD, its why I come here so often. If you want to talk ball, this really is the best place to do it and learn from the best.

Rockets4Life
11-06-2008, 02:09 PM
Tmac got lucky by getting Artest as a Teamate

Just like Kobe got lucky by getting Paul Gasol as a teamate

Lakers4ItAll
11-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Touche


Just like Kobe got lucky by getting Paul Gasol as a teamate

Faneik
11-06-2008, 03:20 PM
Yea Ive never seen your posts so you probably are, dont take offense, but I KNOW high basketball IQ when I see it. And there are a ton of them on PSD, its why I come here so often. If you want to talk ball, this really is the best place to do it and learn from the best.

"Learn to talk ball"? What hell is that anyway?
Do you think that's why we common average posters come to these boards?
To learn to talk ball?

"Learn from the best" - I'm pretty sure you put yourself in that category. I also think you suffer from somekind of illusion of greatness...

If I want to learn more about basketball:
- I play it;
- I watch it.

If I want to learn about the NBA I read it's history.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 03:48 PM
"Learn to talk ball"? What hell is that anyway?
I never said learn to talk ball.


Do you think that's why we common average posters come to these boards?
To learn to talk ball?

To interact with other fans of the game, you cannot deny the existence of intelligent posters (Den, LD, JB, GO, Gr824, Cracka, joshtd, dontfirenedco, delaju, kegger) there are really too many to name off the top of my head and those are just the ones Ive encountered on these forums. I dont know why you think Im insulting anyone by saying Im not average. Do you consider yourself to be an average fan?



"Learn from the best" - I'm pretty sure you put yourself in that category. I also think you suffer from somekind of illusion of greatness...
You mean delusions of grandeur, Id rather suffer from that than regard myself as average, wouldnt you?


If I want to learn more about basketball:
- I play it;
- I watch it.
If I want to learn about the NBA I read it's history.

You dont share your knowledge of the game?

Lakers4ItAll
11-06-2008, 03:54 PM
Shut up already damn

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:02 PM
Chronz....I dont care enough to dissect every sentence or paragraph so i will summarize(although itll be a long summary)
You can play it off like you dont care, but in reality its because you want to be selective with which arguments you want to counter, and ignore the ones Ive completely cornered you in. Its ok I wont hold it against you, it makes it easier for me anyways.


1. You may have never played world of warcraft, you may not be a fat lazy piece of ..., but you have the personality of a warcraft fanatical nerd(and i hope no1 else takes that offensively. its cool to like a game or anime or anything but some people go overboard...like when you think you arent on the level of others...hilarious o god)
Its called self esteem, I KNOW Im smarter than the average fan, so if that makes me a nerd then thank god Im not you.



I understand your point of thinking you know soooo much, but you dont. I dont. I know enough to get by and definately enough to argue something, otherwise I generally dont like to waste my time. who likes to lose? so yea, get a grip on reality mr bourne

Who likes to lose? What does that have to do with anything, and listen you saying **** without any substance to it, doesnt make it true. I know alot more than just enough to get bye, I know enough to know that Im definitely not an average fan, Ive been studying the game for far too long to put myself on your level.



2. Getting out of the first round is pretty big actually. But no matter what I say, you wouldnt agree nor even understand. If i cant pull out plaques or awards or anything else...it wont be a valid enough reason to you.

So when you say Tmac can only dream of doing things that CP3 has done you really mean, Tmac's team have never been past the first round the way CP3 has done. So far your lengthy post has been pretty easy to dismantle.


Paul is a winner and a leader...mac implies he doesnt want to be a leader(this interview isnt the first time ive gotten that from him either). Paul elevates his team...mac elevates "his" game.

What makes you think he doesnt want to be the leader, I highly question your english comprehension abilities, from the way you carry yourself and your typing style so whenever you accuse someone please do show the evidence as to how you came to that conclusion. WHAT DID HE SAY???


Actual accomplishments- how about the fact that Paul led his team to 2nd in the west with a decent supporting cast, but no real superstar? Has Mac? How about the fact that Paul was 2nd in MVP voting ALREADY...how high has mac ever gotten?

Getting to the 2nd round is a team accomplishment, plenty of players have gotten to the 2nd round and very few of them have been as great as Tmac. Tmac has been top 6, top 4 twice, top 7 3x, but heres the thing he was behind only Duncan, KG and Kobe when they were at the top of their games. So again what historical things has CP3 accomplished that Tmac could never imagine?



thats enough n my mind to warrant that he is a dream player and above anything mac has ever been. Mac may go down as a HoFer...scratch that, he probably will. Paul is already making a case to be in th egreatest of all time category. If he just maintains, he will go down anywhere from 3rd-20th best EVER!!! He could seriously surpass Magic...Mac was a stud back in teh day, but he wasnt ever gonna be in that elite company IMO(and dont say he would have been. hed've had to do some seriously rediculous stuff to even come close to being anywhere near top 50)

Of course CP3's potential is high right now, hes young and no different than Tmac when he was young. Lets just hope injuries dont alter his career path. And Mac was most definitely in that class, you saying he wasnt doesnt make it so. His level of play proves this.


3- yes...i called you inept. you are. prove me wrong. you think im wrong a lot, but you are just as much if not more. You may be able to support a false argument better(at times) but generally the point that you are arguing is wrong...like here.

Dude your "no Im not, you are" routine is getting old. Is that really all your going to do? And Im not laughing at you calling me inept, Im laughing at your sentence structures, its clear your trying too hard to sound articulate. Next time use the word ineptitude. What inept abilities



4- umm no...asking you who he's played with wasnt a literal question mr bourne. it was meant to say that AI has never had anyone great if you are too inept to understand that.

Yea I know what you were trying to get at, sadly Ive already answered this question you just didnt respond to it (SHOCK)

Please stop saying Im inept, when its you who cant seem to keep up, again allow me to repeat myself:

Since when does a team of nobodies win EVERY INDIVIDUAL AWARD? See how easy your posts are man, put some effort PLEASE!!




5- actually he was goated into saying it by Stephen A. Stephen wanted to pull the most out of him. He wasnt trying to relieve pressure from anyone. He was saying that that was his best opportunity so far to have gotten out...and it was. it was NOT to take pressure off anyone.

Evidence please, Tmac said it to take the pressure off of his teammates, his own words and the words of his team.



6- stop putting words in my mouth. i never said he was "easily" replaceable. i said he's replaceable. he is. korver is just as good, posey is all around better...just to name a couple. and Tyson is NOT waay better. Gooden is better at creating his own offense and probably offensive rebounding. Rebounding as a whole is pretty equal. but tyson has the defensive edge...all around, they are pretty comparable talent wise- not style/athleticism wise. West is only an allstar because of paul. itd be fruitless to argue against that. he isnt an elite rebounder and a lot of his shots are wide open by cp3's penetration.

I never put words in your mouth, merely pointing out the insignificance of saying without CP3 they wouldnt be great. Korver isnt as good as Peja, Tyson is WAY better. LOL here come the probably arguments, look man if your not going to supply evidence then you cant pass off your BS as factual knowledge. Let me know when Drew Gooden puts up a rebounding rate of 20% or when he leads the league in rebounding%. As for your West comment go ahead and post that in New Orleans forum. Tell them West is only an all-star because of CP3. The fact that he can hit that mid range jumper with the best of them is why CP3 can be so effective, they make eachother better. NEXT





7- no, im not implying that a macless orlando team would have been anything, but a paulless hornet club certainly isnt either. mac is one of the better passers for his position...so what. passing alone doesnt make them better. maybe its execution, not the actual occurrance because they both draw doubles, and they both hit up their teammates. but maybe paul does it at the perfect time...or maybe...just MAYBE...paul actually trusts and respects his team.IDK..mac seems like a selfish jerk/*******...regardless the fact remains that paul elevates his team and mac doesnt to that extent. that was the entire point. how many ways do i have to spell it out for your inept non point seeing tail?

Passing and drawing double teams play a large part of making players around you better so you saying so what kinda proves your downplaying huge factors in hopes that I wont expose you. Tmac has excellent execution hence I said he was great at running an offense, please do try to keep up. There are too many maybes in this post, please be more assertive in your next response, I cant take anyone who isnt sure of themselves seriously.


8- championships follow big men. You can get by in the regular season w/o 1 and his team stepped up.(though it was only what? like 2 weeks or so?) they played well. in the post season, where a post presence matters...they wouldve been nothing without KG. Allen proved my point that he AND pierce arent entirely necessary. He had an abismal 1st 2 series.

They wouldve been nothing without Pierce either. And how did Allen prove your point are the playoffs only 2 rounds long and how does them beating someone in the first round prove anything, if anything the fact that they struggled to put away the Haws of all teams proves how important Allen and Pierce are, and how good was KG in the finals compared to the rest of the playoffs? Their championship was the very definition of a TEAM EFFORT. By the way you type its almost as if you believe KG won the finals MVP.


9-Who the hell wanted to go to boston??? nobody wanted to go there. They were losers for how long? they had no direction nor anything else to put him in a better position than he was in minnesota. When Ray got traded, he wouldve been stupid to not go to a team that has 2 legit allstars already. that proves your point right? taht he didnt think so. however...who else did they get? it wasnt just KG and Allen. there were a lot of changes that offseason. and the fact that there were more, helps mine. ONE could go down. during the season they had the depth to make up for it.

They had Pierce, the same guy you just said with they wouldve been contenders with. KG didnt believe so, the addition of Ray Allen made it a no brainer. Your basically saying that if you added 2 role players (House and Posey) to that boston team KG wouldve accepted the trade.


10- Ainge..russel...russel is part of the office is he not?
Ainge is the GM, he calls the shots on what trades happen. Russel is like Kareem, an adviser out of respect for his contributions to the team.


11- I know exactly how much you value theregular season...is your memory so lacking that you cannot recall our earlier arguments? some have been pretty big...liek when we spoke on weed...another time you proved how unable to understand a point, when you thought i was arguing that weed is only to certain people when in fact i had already said weed doesnt discriminate. its everywhere.
Yea I remember you not being able to respond back then either. Go ahead bring up the topic if you have the balls, Ill show you the parts that answered your rinse and repeated arguments.



the other huge argument was about THIS...you argued taht its dumb to lose to have a better seeding. you said always win or you lack heart, etc, etc. you couldnt be more wrong. make it easiest on yourself and advance as far as possible with the weakest competition you can.

Bring up that post and the post proceeding it, I already answered this question. And with this team now regular season isnt what matters. Obviously you want the easiest path but it wont be at the expense of health, that was my point. They arent going to tank to get the better matchup, thats what weak teams do, name a team that has ever won a championship by tanking.


Yes! Artest has admitted he isnt going to be the leader. only an idiot would think he will be. I said, he SHOULD be. he will be the most consistant player they have. by that I mean He is the most likely to play EVERY game and the most likely to guard the best player.

So now you think you know more than the coach? Yao SHOULD be the leader, its his team. Tmac is the facilitator of the offense and directs traffic when Rafer sits. So Artest knows he didnt come to be the leader yet you think he should be. And Im the one with a superiority complex???


again, you make sooo many excuses for mac. its his job to play. injured or otehrwise. what the hell did jordan say when he was sick in the playoffs? put me in the game..wait he may not have said anything. he just went out and dropped an unearthly amount to win. AI is ALWAYS injured yet they went to the finals. I read he had something like 13 injuries that ECF series. I dont give a flip about mcgrady's injuries. they happen. no excuses.

LOL so being sick equates to being injured now, your acting as if he didnt play, and of course you dont care about his injuries they totally destroy your argument. You cant recover from having a balky back, you can only live with the pain and adjust your style of play, the fact that Tmac has remained an elite player is a testament to his work ethic and skill level.


12- no...im not saying mac could predict the future. Im jusat saying that karma is a B...He got what he deserved. Nothing more...sure it seemed smart at the time to walk from what was eventually D12. thast great that he made the smarter choice...how'd it work out for him? not too well. Players are drafted every year that are the next HUGE thing. having the number 1 pic means he shouldve thought a little deeper.

Hindsight is 20/20, your point is invalid.


13- mac was great in his prime... i dont recall ever saying anything bad nor untrue about him. i just said hes selfish, cant elevate his team, and isnt a leader. he was still a good scorer.

You just said alot of untrue things. He did all of the above.


14- you never "said" he was an offensive player, however i said who was AI's second option. everyone knew mutumbo was a defensive beast, but option is obviously ann offensive term....or ar you too inept to understand that?

Nope Im playing head games with you man, I thought you would be smart enough to recognize that asking about 1 side of the court will only set yourself for future failure, since you couldnt recognize my preemptive strike I have to continue embarrassing you. Again since when does a 1 man team win every individual award possible? He had the best team in the East, he was SUPPOSE to go to the finals and he almost lost it by letting inferior teams make it a series.



15- if i summarized, it would be short mr bourne. that is an implication of a summary. a summary is str8 and too the point. how is it a summary to attack outlying details? it isnt. can you be more difficult to disprove...please!!! i could use an actual challenge instead of wasting my time with your argument. you suck dude. you really do. your incompetence is unreal at times.

Study my posting style, this is how you attack directly. If you want me to show you why you summarize then just ask, I can show you a few of my arguments you still havent recognized. Whether it be because you cant or wont is irrelevant, facts are you arent debating, your cherry picking.


16- look for it. i dont have time to say when and where you did something. in all honesty i couldnt care less. you seem like the type to love to disprove someone. look it up mr bourne. I am on your "hitlist" remember??? pathetic

Cowardice at its finest, why would I have to look up something that your using as the foundation of YOUR OWN ARGUMENT?


17- You didnt say you arent fat and lazy so i mustve been right. lol.
Yes Im fat and lazy, cmon man the reason I didnt react to that is because I dont stoop to such childish levels. But lets pretend I was fat and lazy, how does that change anything Ive been saying. Are you some kind of bully at middle school?


18- so...ur saying this interview sucks because kobe has had other bad ones??? thats odd. i think mac's interview sucks because of what he said in this one...maybe you just couldnt argue against my actual point so you bring up the past...its cool. thats a loser's mentality. you seem to fit the bill. just admit that kobe had a nice interview and handled the situation/ questions on a level tmac cant(or at least didnt)

I never said Kobes interview sucked, but dont act like hes some kind of angel.


19- again, you picked out 1 thing and couldnt argue the rest. i never said tmac has no motivation, i said he doesnt use the blame as motivation. how can he if he doesnt accept the blame? prove to me one time where he does accept it...please, by all means do. regardless if his team was trash, that isnt something you let out. it was YOUR team...you have to man up and accept that. thats all. w/e tho. kobe handled his interview very well and i hope mac learns from it.

Defending himself from unjust criticism doesnt mean its not adding fuel to the fire, again if you had seen other interviews from him you would know this. Kobe handled the blame very well didnt he, degrading his teammates and asking for a trade is truly heroic. Now that hes winning of course hes going to be all fine and dandy. Your living in the moment instead of seeing all the precursors that led up to this point.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Shut up already damn

Nope, but I hope you keep posting, it was funny seeing that Rockets4life own you

Faneik
11-06-2008, 04:05 PM
I never said learn to talk ball.

If you want to talk ball, this really is the best place TO DO IT and LEARN from the best.
:confused:


"You mean delusions of grandeur..." - english is not my natural language, my bad.

"You dont share your knowledge of the game?" - No, I'm just an average common poster that comes here to learn to talk ball with the best like you...

Faneik
11-06-2008, 04:09 PM
You keep saying that you have better than average basketball knowledge.

Relax man, if you have it the rest of us will recognize it, you don't have to preach it us.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:13 PM
You keep saying that you have better than average basketball knowledge.

Relax man, if you have it the rest of us will recognize it, you don't have to preach it us.

Im not preaching it to anyone. Im only answering the questions your asking me, and defending myself from barrel, and believe me Ive already been recognized. Im not trying to brag but just dont tell me something I already know. I worked my way from the bottom every where Ive been, eventually I want to make a career out of this but thats not until the distant future. I seriously dont understand how people could have a problem with me having a high amount of respect for myself, its not like Im saying the ONLY smart guy here. Thats how you know barrell is overreacting, he keeps calling me an other worldly god, when Ive said nothing of the sort. I give credit where its due


PS SORRY LUBES, I cant believe I forgot to mention you

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:19 PM
:confused:


"You mean delusions of grandeur..." - english is not my natural language, my bad.

"You dont share your knowledge of the game?" - No, I'm just an average common poster that comes here to learn to talk ball with the best like you...

The commas are used to separate 2 word fragments. I come here to talk ball, but you can learn from the best here. God knows I have

Faneik
11-06-2008, 04:23 PM
Im not preaching it to anyone. Im only answering the questions your asking me, and defending myself from barrel, and believe me Ive already been recognized. Im not trying to brag but just dont tell me something I already know. I worked my way from the bottom every where Ive been, eventually I want to make a career out of this but thats not until the distant future. I seriously dont understand how people could have a problem with me having a high amount of respect for myself, its not like Im saying the ONLY smart guy here. Thats how you know barrell is overreacting, he keeps calling me an other worldly god, when Ive said nothing of the sort. I give credit where its due


PS SORRY LUBES, I cant believe I forgot to mention you

Yeah Lubes, don't worry you're still elite around here along with Chronz and others.

"high amount of respect for myself" - I've read your posts in this thread and it seemed like arrogance to me.

"Thats how you know barrell is overreacting, he keeps calling me an other worldly god" - he's making fun of you b/c you think too much of yourself and he noticed that.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:29 PM
Yeah Lubes, don't worry you're still elite around here along with Chronz and others.

"high amount of respect for myself" - I've read your posts in this thread and it seemed like arrogance to me.

"Thats how you know barrell is overreacting, he keeps calling me an other worldly god" - he's making fun of you b/c you think too much of yourself and he noticed that.

LOL Thinking Im not average is thinking too much of myself? And read the context of my posts, its not arrogance. He was saying everyone was saying how CP3 wouldnt get past the first round, I said dont hold me to the same standards as you do those morons.

myoo2182
11-06-2008, 04:37 PM
brutally honest??? lol hilarious. what you are calling honesty, is in fact immaturity. man up and accept some responsibilty for losing. accept that you are the best player and thus the leader. who cares if you lost, but have class. do not degrade your teammates. did jordan? did kg? kobe did in ways, but anyone else? he elevated "his" game, but what about his teammates? if the rockets win, he will have a say in it. but artest will have just as big a say. artest should be the leader. he can handle the pressure better than a frail minded mcgrady. he can defend better and score almost as well. but i digress. the fact is the man apparently sucks as a star and as a teammate. he speaks all woa is me. dont blame me, im scared and hurt by the blame. eff that. why should he care what anyone else thinks? if he didnt maybe things wuold go differently. maybe hed get out of the 1st round. chris paul has never complained about his team. as limited as they are, he makes them better. as limited as they are, he took them to the 2nd round when everyone said theyd lose in the 1st. he took SA to 7 games when ppl thought sweep. just be honest with yourself and stp making excuses for him. he isnt a leader, he cant accept criticism w/o taking it to heart, he isnt a great teammate, and overall he is weak. he has the package when healthy body wise but not mentally. put bird in his body and he might have been the best ever. but mac should be happy if he gets to the hall of fame.

I have been a Tmac fan for a while but yea.. if you look at other teams who have lost, their star will accept responsibility. You can't have your leader and franchise player telling interviewers that they had garbage teammates, even if its somewhat true in Orlando. In Houston he has a good team that should have already been out of the first round. He talks about elevating his game and refers to his scoring average. Even if the other numbers follow, that just kind of shows where he is mentally. Theres so much more you can do that do not come out in numbers in the playoffs. He needs to really lead his team in the playoffs. Look at what Lebron has done with the Cavs... christ... he doesn't have much help. Like you said... look at Chris CP3 Paul.. as amazing as he is, he doesn't have much help... and I say that because most of his teammates are great because of him, not great beacuse they are simply great players.

Tyson Chandler was a wash before CP3 lifted him up. D.West is not an all-star if he doesn't play the season with Chris Paul. Peja at this point in his career, can not put up those numbers without a Chris Paul.

McGrady can't just worry about elevating himself, he needs to elevate his team... it is his responsibility as the face of the franchise to do that. Even if he believes his teammates are not great.. he needs to keep that to himself... plus.. now he has a top 3 Center in the league in Yao when healthy. Lets hope they stay healthy this year and if they lose they have no excuses. If they win, people will largely give Ron Artest the credit he deserves.

Faneik
11-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Im not preaching it to anyone. Im only answering the questions your asking me, and defending myself from barrel, and believe me Ive already been recognized. Im not trying to brag but just dont tell me something I already know. I worked my way from the bottom every where Ive been, eventually I want to make a career out of this but thats not until the distant future. I seriously dont understand how people could have a problem with me having a high amount of respect for myself, its not like Im saying the ONLY smart guy here. Thats how you know barrell is overreacting, he keeps calling me an other worldly god, when Ive said nothing of the sort. I give credit where its due


PS SORRY LUBES, I cant believe I forgot to mention you

LOL

You want to be a professional basketball internet forum writer?

You're going to charge us to read your posts?

Lakers4ItAll
11-06-2008, 04:38 PM
Own me? What are you 10?


Nope, but I hope you keep posting, it was funny seeing that Rockets4life own you

barreleffact
11-06-2008, 04:50 PM
o my gosh this thread is hilarious...chronz ima get back at you soon. im havin fun reading and i got some things to do, but probably later tonight expect a full response.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:54 PM
LOL

You want to be a professional basketball internet forum writer?

You're going to charge us to read your posts?

What you wouldnt pay 50 bucks a month to read my junk? Seriously though I hope you know I was talking about being an analyst if not then probably a coach, at least for a youth team or something.

Chronz
11-06-2008, 04:56 PM
Own me? What are you 10?
Yes own you, in a battle of wits you were most definitely owned. But on a serious note, its much more mature to tell someone to shut up isnt it?


o my gosh this thread is hilarious...chronz ima get back at you soon. im havin fun reading and i got some things to do, but probably later tonight expect a full response.

I hope its a FULL response, take all the time you need sweetness.

Lakers4ItAll
11-06-2008, 04:57 PM
Carry on........

barreleffact
11-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Yes own you, in a battle of wits you were most definitely owned. But on a serious note, its much more mature to tell someone to shut up isnt it?



I hope its a FULL response, take all the time you need sweetness.

you gay??? lol. jp, but trust i dont need time to think. just time to chill. kind of feel like bein lazy before work and responding after. but yea, itll be a full response. till then, i bid you adieu

xDjEpYOnx
11-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Carry on........

I agree its fun watching a one-sided slugout

Chronz
11-06-2008, 05:29 PM
you gay??? lol. jp, but trust i dont need time to think. just time to chill. kind of feel like bein lazy before work and responding after. but yea, itll be a full response. till then, i bid you adieu

Believe me man I know where your coming from, these kind of battles can get exhausting, Im in no rush. You could respond next week and Id still get back at you. Well Im off to work....

barreleffact
11-08-2008, 03:17 AM
Chronz- to start it off, i appologize for being insulting. You said something that I found offensive, but lookin back on it now, I just started acting retardedly for no real reason....back to the debate tho

1- yes, I pick and choose parts of arguments for one of two reasons: I agree with it, or I cant argue against it. human nature, but Ive already said I pick parts out before. regardless, it isnt that big of a deal. this, like many of our debates, seems to be one where neither of us will be swayed to the others belief. thats kind of funny considering the biggest disagreement isnt even about his skil, but rather his willingness and ability to lead and accept criticism.

2- There is nothing wrong with knowing you are smarter. I think Im smarter than 90-95% of america...so what. Im not gonna call attention to it. If I do it usually isnt in a way that makes me seem overly arrogant.

Yes, you are right that a lot of us who debate on this site pay attention more than your average viewers. Generally We see the game as more than a sport and as something we truley love. I agree with that part full heartedly. I have only loved one thing in my life more than basketball that isnt my family. Saying that wouldnt have been off tha wall in the least, but to say phrases like "the common man" and stuff...its just over doing it IMO.

3- Youve been studying too long to accept that you are on my level...there's a difference, cuz you are on my level. I know enough to get by on anything Im willing to debate. Can I always convince someone to believe my beliefs or understand why I think a certain way? No. And I choose to not argue the ones I know I couldnt win. What is wrong with that? Plus, what have I said that has lacked substance?? it has seemed a lot of people have agreed with what I have said; some have even been able to state my view in better ways than I did, so I do not think I have said anything without substance.

4- No...when I say Tmac basically cant compare to CP3 its because CP3 is in this elite level of greatness that isnt seen anywhere close to often. He raises the level of his play by raising other peoples play. He does so many intangibles that cant be seen in stats or awards. He is a true leader, and Mac isnt. Mac doesnt want to be a leader, he doesnt want blame, he doesnt respect his teammates often times, so how could Mac compare with what CP3 can do? regardless, CP3 has led his subpar team to 2nd in the west, the 2nd round, and has gotten 2nd in MVP voting. a lot of 2nd's there that tmac has not tasted yet, and may never. CP3 and mac just dont compare IMO and it isnt even close even when mac was in his prime.

5- have you seen his interviews??? even in this last one he implied he didnt want to be the leader. in this last one stephen A asked him do you get the blame because you are the best player and its expected of you, and he hesitated to say yes...in fact he didnt say yes. he said maybe and he doesnt know. in the 06 interview Stephen A had to bait him repeatedly to say he's the leader. in 07 he ranted and even chose names of people who's fault it was. he pointed out 1 thing scola did wrong and called attention to others mistakes like his play was flawless. no...that isnt a good leader, that doesnt say you want to be a leader...what more can i really say? this interview he even said how he never had that player that was surreally better than he is that could draw pressure...meaning he never had someone who could lead for him like shaq or duncan. its ok. not everyone can lead, and he is one of them.

6- overall sucess with a subpar team as a leader...it hasnt happened. probably wont happen. cp3 is just better man. he has taken a garbage hornet team on paper into being a very solid team by playing to others strengths.

7- no...mac has never been anywhere close to cp3. cp3 came into the league with the highest rookie PER since magic johnson from what ive been told. yes, he is potential filled, and i hope he doesnt get injured, but cp3 may go down as a top 5 player EVER!. mac was never going to be that high. mac was always a scorer and thats about it. cp3 can do it all.

8- lol, you are talking to me about grammar. I type how I speak. this isnt formal at all. if it was a formal essay, paper, article, etc...id type differently. outside that, I do not care to type in any other way than this. btw, you are mistaken if you think i am trying to sound articulate. I dont have to try. my IQ is 140...wth would i have to try to sound articulate for when i know im smart??? i just chjose to say you have an nept ability to do something. sounded better to me.

9- When does a team of the greatest players win every individual award??? it doesnt happen. A team of nobodies does it when they overachieve. Mckie is a nobody, AI definately made his team overachieve to get that MVP award and scoring championship, and Mutumbo had to be that defensive anchor or AI's greatness would have been wasted. thats when it happens. when you are overachieving because on paper, they were nothing. I aint the only one(by far) to think that.

10- no, tmac was baited into saying he felt he's the leader and that it was on him if he lost. he was pissed/ riled up when he said it. Stephen just gaoted him to see some intensity. All he was saying was that it was his best shot at getting out of the first round(and it was).

11- i shouldnt even have to argue with you about CP3's team. CP3 is his team. you are the ONLY person I've ever heard of that doesnt think so. Provide me with any way in hell West would be an allstar w/o CP3...he gets west so many open looks its unreal. I have said already that tyson is a better rebounder and defender, but gooden still can get you about 10 rpg and he is better at making his own offense. all in all they are comparable. korver isnt as good as Peja, but he isnt bad either. you cant seriously think that Korver on that team instead of Peja would make them worse...Korver is solid...we've all seen how his shooting sparked the jazz last year.

12- what did you really expect me to say? If it was that easy to know how Jordan or Cp3 can make people better, anyone could do it. It has to be the intangibles, respect, and trust in your teammates IMO. Jordan was fierocious but if it was the ight play, he made it and you knew that he trusted you to hit it or you had to answer to him. CP3 loves his team...he has never disrespected any of them as far as I can tell... Mac has and does(as seen in the interview). Mac just doesnt seem at all to have that comradery nor leadership that a CP3 has. what he lacks is the reason CP3 is leagues ahead of him.

13- how did allen not prove my point??? did they win while he was horrible? yes!!! so please, end that. they got to the ECF with allen being terrible. my point is they could be ontenders with only KG and one of the other big 3...well since they got to the ECF with only 1 other being remotely productive...that made them still able to be contenders. and give the Hawks their respect. They are solid and faaaar more athletic. Plus, JJ is one of the most underrated in the league. JJ is so solid all around its unreal. add that with J-smooth realizing his potential during that series, and horford going str8 at KG and that team could have taken on most teams. give them their dues.

no, i realize KG shrank on offense like he usually does in big moments. However, he is the reason they got the opportunity to be there.

14- Maybe he would have...posey has always been underrated. But allen did make it a no brainer. with JUST KG, Pierce, Rondo(who was very unproven), and Perkins(see Rondo), and no depth at all...they wouldnt have been that great. playoffs definately but, not championship, and he wanted to go to a contender.

15- so...u basically said russuel is still in the front office, right????

16- have the balls??? really??? I dont think yo uwant to go there with me...it wouldnt be recommended and besides..its a forum guy. It aint like you live up the street. if you do, just come see me and i would be glad to show you my testicular fortitude...if not, please, dont challenge me. drop it here and now.

regardless, ive already brought it up. you dont interpret people well...or at least not me. we debated weed, and i stated multiple times that it doesnt descriminate, but you still thought i was saying that its limited to failures, and the poor. We spoke of the regular season and you said you think losing to play a better team is disrespectful to your fans, and it is a waste because to be the best, you have to face the best...thats all good, but i guarantee you, your fans would rather see you in the WCF against the Lakers(because you played competition you knew you can beat) that to see you lose in the first round because of pride. so please, tell me when i could not respond. Basically in both topics, it was you who looked foolish.

17- how does losing affect health??? never heard any correlation that would imply that losing could make someone injured. stars get injured in the game...not on the bench. regardless, teams dont usually tank for more favorable matchups and those that win are often times seeded well. w/e. if you cant win it all, go as far as you can. that is my point. play the best 1st round opponent that you can and then worry about round 2 after.

18- How does my thinking SOMEONE ELSE should be the leader make ME have a superiority complex??? it has nothing to do with me. I dont care at all. I aint a rocket fan. Yao cant be the leader, he hasnt shown any consistancy thus far, and he isnt mentally tough enough, plus he cant stay on the floor enough to be a leader. Same with tracey. Artest has the entire package they need. He isnt and wont be the leader, and thats fine, but since he is the best player that is most likely to be there EVER night, he shoudl be the leader.

19- I have NEVER questioned macs skill. I have said repeatedly that he is a great talent. HOWEVER, others have done more while being injured. Jordan had a fever and the flu yet dropped like 60...but ok, since it wasnt an injury lets talk about AI(whom you failed to mention)...he had like 13 injuries during that run...how can you counter that??? or will you just overlook it like you already have tried? You said yourself Tmac just has to live with his back...so if he has to live with it, he can moderately get used to the pain. AI's injuries were new...what is harder to adjust to? new injuries or recurring problems?

20- ok...you are the wise one that decides what is valid and not..i forgot, im dealing with an uncommon man:rolleyes: disprove me before you say something is invalid. arent all the BEST players drafted? Didnt they have the 1st pick??? how is what I said invalid??? it isnt. It seemed smart, but thats if you dont evaluate the talent you're about to get. It was pretty much a given that yao wasnt going to remain healthy. he's too freakishly large. taking it all in, he got what he deserved.

21- NO...he is everything I said. He is selfish...prove me wrong. he cant elevate his team...prove me wrong(you cant cuz he's 0-7)...he isnt a leader...prove me wrong(you cant is tmac himself has implied on multiple occasions that he doesnt want to lead, and he cant even remember any of his teammates, and the only time any teammate has come out of his mouth is when he is placing blame) you cant prove me wrong. instead, when you disagree but cant validate anything , you do your whole...im right, all you say is untruths, and im not a common man BS.

22- funny, i thought ud be smart enough to understand that we all recognize mutumbo and what he brings defensively. i thought ud understand that it was offense that was theachilles heel of that team...maybe i gave you too much credit.

23- your posting style sucks!!!! jp..i isnt that bad if you care enough to quote and disect every part. I do not. it isnt summarizing for me. I expound too much. I still have all the information in my post...its just framed differently.

24- it isnt cowardice at all. honestly man, you are really making me want to take back my appology. i will let it go for now, but for the future, u arent about to talk to me just any way that you feel...k, cupcake????

regardless, if you really want to disprove me, you will look up my past posts...it shouldnt be difficult. all you have to do is click an earlier page.

25- maybe i am a bully:mad:...regardless, its ok if you are fat and lazy. ur the type that would say if you werent...its cool. do you(meaning do what you do). and for the record you have disproven yourself. to say that you arent on a childish level of insulting, yet how many insults have been in your posts???? just pointing it out.

26- never said he is an angel. i just said kobe's interview is what you expect of a leader. it was to the point and didnt place blame. it just said this is what we lacked as a team, and we all realize it and are better and stronger now.

27- so...instead of proving me wrong, you avoid it and attack kobe now. great!!! regardless, i never said kobe always was the definition of a class act nor leader. but now he is. now, he does what is expected of the best. mac has never acceoted blam, but please...im asking you again...PROVE ME WRONG...show me one time he accepts the blame.

barreleffact
11-08-2008, 03:18 AM
I have been a Tmac fan for a while but yea.. if you look at other teams who have lost, their star will accept responsibility. You can't have your leader and franchise player telling interviewers that they had garbage teammates, even if its somewhat true in Orlando. In Houston he has a good team that should have already been out of the first round. He talks about elevating his game and refers to his scoring average. Even if the other numbers follow, that just kind of shows where he is mentally. Theres so much more you can do that do not come out in numbers in the playoffs. He needs to really lead his team in the playoffs. Look at what Lebron has done with the Cavs... christ... he doesn't have much help. Like you said... look at Chris CP3 Paul.. as amazing as he is, he doesn't have much help... and I say that because most of his teammates are great because of him, not great beacuse they are simply great players.

Tyson Chandler was a wash before CP3 lifted him up. D.West is not an all-star if he doesn't play the season with Chris Paul. Peja at this point in his career, can not put up those numbers without a Chris Paul.

McGrady can't just worry about elevating himself, he needs to elevate his team... it is his responsibility as the face of the franchise to do that. Even if he believes his teammates are not great.. he needs to keep that to himself... plus.. now he has a top 3 Center in the league in Yao when healthy. Lets hope they stay healthy this year and if they lose they have no excuses. If they win, people will largely give Ron Artest the credit he deserves.

exactly how i feel!!!!

Chronz
11-08-2008, 09:46 AM
1- yes, I pick and choose parts of arguments for one of two reasons: I agree with it, or I cant argue against it. human nature, but Ive already said I pick parts out before. regardless, it isnt that big of a deal. this, like many of our debates, seems to be one where neither of us will be swayed to the others belief. thats kind of funny considering the biggest disagreement isnt even about his skil, but rather his willingness and ability to lead and accept criticism.
He accepts criticism so long as its justified, him not getting past the first round isnt on him when hes played so well.


2- There is nothing wrong with knowing you are smarter. I think Im smarter than 90-95% of america...so what. Im not gonna call attention to it. If I do it usually isnt in a way that makes me seem overly arrogant.

The minute you brought up the opinions of ignorant people is when I told you not to hold me to the same standards.



Yes, you are right that a lot of us who debate on this site pay attention more than your average viewers. Generally We see the game as more than a sport and as something we truley love. I agree with that part full heartedly. I have only loved one thing in my life more than basketball that isnt my family. Saying that wouldnt have been off tha wall in the least, but to say phrases like "the common man" and stuff...its just over doing it IMO.
To debate with phrases such as, "no one thought the Hornets would make it the 2nd round" is underdoing it, your not putting much effort into your analysis. Thats what the common man does...


3- Youve been studying too long to accept that you are on my level...there's a difference, cuz you are on my level. I know enough to get by on anything Im willing to debate. Can I always convince someone to believe my beliefs or understand why I think a certain way? No. And I choose to not argue the ones I know I couldnt win. What is wrong with that? Plus, what have I said that has lacked substance?? it has seemed a lot of people have agreed with what I have said; some have even been able to state my view in better ways than I did, so I do not think I have said anything without substance.

Like Ive said before, we are nothing alike. Its not about changing beliefs, believe me Ive seen countless like you. Most of your analysis on players has been very half assed, you dont bring up any aspects of a players game and the ones you do turn out to be incorrect. Gooden and defense for example...



4- No...when I say Tmac basically cant compare to CP3 its because CP3 is in this elite level of greatness that isnt seen anywhere close to often. He raises the level of his play by raising other peoples play.
Tmac in his prime did the same, he just wasnt blessed with the team CP3 has around him in his prime.


He does so many intangibles that cant be seen in stats or awards.
As does Tmac


He is a true leader, and Mac isnt.
Youve yet to prove this, Tmac's teams have always overachieved aside from that pathetic 04 season when all the heavy lifting and lack of support finally caught up to the team. He also began his regression


Mac doesnt want to be a leader, he doesnt want blame, he doesnt respect his teammates often times, so how could Mac compare with what CP3 can do?
Mac loves being the leader, he takes the blame and has said he understands why people criticize his play, he just doesnt agree that its his fault the team didnt get past the first round and most knowledgeable experts and his teammates agree, Tmac gets an unfair amount of criticism. CP3 hasnt been in those situations so comparing their situations isnt very telling.


regardless, CP3 has led his subpar team to 2nd in the west, the 2nd round, and has gotten 2nd in MVP voting. a lot of 2nd's there that tmac has not tasted yet, and may never.
The context of those accomplishments dont match up to Tmacs. When Tmac was in the MVP race, Duncan, KG, and Kobe were all playing at similarly dominant levels and both possessing much more wins necessary to rank highly in the award race. MVP awards are based largely on TEAM success, its not bad logic but its entirely possible for the better player to rank lower on the MVP scale. 2nd round was also a team accomplishment, CP3 never had to carry such an abysmal team against teams much more talented than his.


CP3 and mac just dont compare IMO and it isnt even close even when mac was in his prime.

Thats because you dont know much about Tmac's game.


5- have you seen his interviews??? even in this last one he implied he didnt want to be the leader.
What were his exact words?


in this last one stephen A asked him do you get the blame because you are the best player and its expected of you, and he hesitated to say yes...in fact he didnt say yes. he said maybe and he doesnt know.
He doesnt get why people put so much blame on him when there are more GLARING factors as to why the team failed to win.



in the 06 interview Stephen A had to bait him repeatedly to say he's the leader. in 07 he ranted and even chose names of people who's fault it was.
No he didnt, he wasnt baited into anything, he said that its on him to relieve his teammates of any sort of playoff pressure. And what did he say?


he pointed out 1 thing scola did wrong and called attention to others mistakes like his play was flawless. no...that isnt a good leader, that doesnt say you want to be a leader...what more can i really say? this interview he even said how he never had that player that was surreally better than he is that could draw pressure...meaning he never had someone who could lead for him like shaq or duncan. its ok. not everyone can lead, and he is one of them.

Show me the evidence, from the way youve interpreted this interview I highly doubt you understand the context of anything that may have been addressed.


6- overall sucess with a subpar team as a leader...it hasnt happened. probably wont happen. cp3 is just better man. he has taken a garbage hornet team on paper into being a very solid team by playing to others strengths.

CP3 is not just better man, lol. Overall success with a subpar team has happened, look at the trash he carried in Orlando. No matter how often you say the Hornets are garbage it just doesnt make it true. Just like the Sixers werent garbage.


7- no...mac has never been anywhere close to cp3. cp3 came into the league with the highest rookie PER since magic johnson from what ive been told.
Please dont talk about PER unless you know the details of the numbers, and even if you did Tmac's peak PER was higher than CP3's. In fact he posted the highest PER from a perimeter player since Michael Jordan, see how much potential he had before the back problems arrived?


yes, he is potential filled, and i hope he doesnt get injured, but cp3 may go down as a top 5 player EVER!. mac was never going to be that high. mac was always a scorer and thats about it. cp3 can do it all.

Incorrect, Mac was always more than a scorer, he was one of the best all-around players in the league and he wasnt the defensive liability that CP3 has been.


8- lol, you are talking to me about grammar. I type how I speak. this isnt formal at all. if it was a formal essay, paper, article, etc...id type differently. outside that, I do not care to type in any other way than this. btw, you are mistaken if you think i am trying to sound articulate. I dont have to try. my IQ is 140...wth would i have to try to sound articulate for when i know im smart??? i just chjose to say you have an nept ability to do something. sounded better to me.

What inept abilities do I possess?


9- When does a team of the greatest players win every individual award??? it doesnt happen. A team of nobodies does it when they overachieve.
LMAO, nope 6th man is given to the best player off the bench, the DPOY is given to the best defender, MVP is given to the best story on the most surprising team, well thats how it works in theory anyway.


Mckie is a nobody,
Everybody is a nobody to you, sadly the facts dont agree with you.


AI definately made his team overachieve to get that MVP award and scoring championship, and Mutumbo had to be that defensive anchor or AI's greatness would have been wasted. thats when it happens. when you are overachieving because on paper, they were nothing.
Exactly, you just admitted that regardless of how great AI was he NEEDED someone to mask his weaknesses, he NEEDED Snow to gaurd the players he could not while simultaneously running the offense he refused to.


I aint the only one(by far) to think that.
You arent the only person Ive seen fail to support this theory that AI carried a bunch of scrubs, when in reality he had the best defensive team in the conference built perfectly around his ability to chuck.


10- no, tmac was baited into saying he felt he's the leader and that it was on him if he lost. he was pissed/ riled up when he said it. Stephen just gaoted him to see some intensity. All he was saying was that it was his best shot at getting out of the first round(and it was).

Yes, Tmac was excited going into the playoffs. Thats all youve proven


11- i shouldnt even have to argue with you about CP3's team. CP3 is his team. you are the ONLY person I've ever heard of that doesnt think so.
I never said it wasnt CP3's team, and if Im the only person youve heard say that CP3 has a good team around him your alittle behind.


Provide me with any way in hell West would be an allstar w/o CP3...he gets west so many open looks its unreal.
Its his ability to hit that mid range jumper that opens up the floor for CP3, he sets so many great screens to free up CP3 that its unreal. They compliment EACHOTHER.


I have said already that tyson is a better rebounder and defender, but gooden still can get you about 10 rpg and he is better at making his own offense. all in all they are comparable.
I dont deal in REBOUNDS PER GAME, they are influenced by minutes, shots missed, and the overall pace of the game. If your still dealing with the least accurate measures of rebounding prowess then your opinion on how good of a rebounder they both are is moot. You simply dont know enough about the players.



korver isnt as good as Peja, but he isnt bad either.
I never said he was bad


you cant seriously think that Korver on that team instead of Peja would make them worse...Korver is solid...we've all seen how his shooting sparked the jazz last year.
They are pretty similar but Korver is still a downgrade, THATS ALL Ive been saying. Why are you still arguing this?




12- what did you really expect me to say? If it was that easy to know how Jordan or Cp3 can make people better, anyone could do it.
What? This is why you should quote me, whats so hard about it?


It has to be the intangibles, respect, and trust in your teammates IMO.
What intangibles, if you cant name them then why should I believe in your ability to recognize them? Obviously there must be respect and trust but players could hate eachother and bring out the best in one another (Bird/McHale Kobe/Shaq).


Jordan was fierocious but if it was the ight play, he made it and you knew that he trusted you to hit it or you had to answer to him. CP3 loves his team...he has never disrespected any of them as far as I can tell... Mac has and does(as seen in the interview).
So Kobe is a bad leader because he dissed Bynum? Was MJ a bad leader for punching his players in practice? Was Rodman a bad leader because he partied the night before games? Mac didnt diss his teammates and his teammates love playing with him, as far as superstars go Tmac has always been unselfish. Your ability to comprehend Tmacs words are in question, he speaks the truth and talks highly of his teammates. Saying that the opposition is more talented ISNT disrespecting your teammates, not if its true.



Mac just doesnt seem at all to have that comradery nor leadership that a CP3 has. what he lacks is the reason CP3 is leagues ahead of him.

Thats because you dont know jack about Tmac?


13- how did allen not prove my point??? did they win while he was horrible? yes!!! so please, end that.
The game runs deeper than winning and losing, its how you won and how you lost that shows the impact a player has on the team. The fact that the Celtics struggled to put away a clearly inferior team with Ray Allen proves his value because if he wouldve been playing up to par this team wouldve looked as good as it did in the regular season, it wasnt until Ray got it going did the Celtics become title contenders again. I and many other Laker fans can attest to this guarantee, if Ray had played as poorly as he did in the earlier rounds the Celtics wouldnt have won so easily.


they got to the ECF with allen being terrible. my point is they could be ontenders with only KG and one of the other big 3...well since they got to the ECF with only 1 other being remotely productive...that made them still able to be contenders. and give the Hawks their respect. They are solid and faaaar more athletic. Plus, JJ is one of the most underrated in the league. JJ is so solid all around its unreal. add that with J-smooth realizing his potential during that series, and horford going str8 at KG and that team could have taken on most teams. give them their dues.
They got to the ECF because they were that much better than the opposition but once Ray Allen started playing like Ray Allen they became contenders, its why they bounced Detroit in 6 and were finally able to win on the road. Dig deeper in your analysis



no, i realize KG shrank on offense like he usually does in big moments. However, he is the reason they got the opportunity to be there.

And Pierce, and Ray Allen, and Posey.... etc...


14- Maybe he would have...posey has always been underrated. But allen did make it a no brainer. with JUST KG, Pierce, Rondo(who was very unproven), and Perkins(see Rondo), and no depth at all...they wouldnt have been that great. playoffs definately but, not championship, and he wanted to go to a contender.

Exactly they wouldnt be contenders without RAY ALLEN, the same guy you said the Celtics could be still be elite WITHOUT.......


15- so...u basically said russuel is still in the front office, right????
I doubt hes on the pay roll, seems to me like your hoping I tell you hes part of management, curiously what would you do if I were to say no hes not part of the front office?


16- have the balls??? really??? I dont think yo uwant to go there with me...it wouldnt be recommended and besides..its a forum guy. It aint like you live up the street. if you do, just come see me and i would be glad to show you my testicular fortitude...if not, please, dont challenge me. drop it here and now.

You dont have to get punched out on the streets to hurt your ego, words are just as powerful.


regardless, ive already brought it up. you dont interpret people well...or at least not me. we debated weed, and i stated multiple times that it doesnt descriminate, but you still thought i was saying that its limited to failures, and the poor. We spoke of the regular season and you said you think losing to play a better team is disrespectful to your fans, and it is a waste because to be the best, you have to face the best...thats all good, but i guarantee you, your fans would rather see you in the WCF against the Lakers(because you played competition you knew you can beat) that to see you lose in the first round because of pride. so please, tell me when i could not respond. Basically in both topics, it was you who looked foolish.

Bring up the thread and Ill show you your own words.


17- how does losing affect health??? never heard any correlation that would imply that losing could make someone injured. stars get injured in the game...not on the bench. regardless,
WTF are you talking about, Im looking at the last time you used the number 17 and its the comment where you called me fat. Again quote me, its not that hard to do and actually could save you time. Im literally reading your post as I go thru it.


teams dont usually tank for more favorable matchups and those that win are often times seeded well. w/e. if you cant win it all, go as far as you can. that is my point. play the best 1st round opponent that you can and then worry about round 2 after.
And Im saying the Rockets dont care because to them its more important to be healthy than make a run for the highest seed, and as far as tanking is concerned it depends on the teams character. Tanking can and has backfired, teams lose the momentum they had going into the playoffs. The point isnt to make it to the 2nd round, not for teams that view themselves as LEGIT contenders.


18- How does my thinking SOMEONE ELSE should be the leader make ME have a superiority complex???
Because you have very little understanding of the Rockets as a team and their history, the player himself doesnt want to be the leader and wasnt brought in to be the leader in the first place. We havent seen them at full strength so suggesting anyone else other than Yao should be the leader is foolish.


it has nothing to do with me. I dont care at all. I aint a rocket fan. Yao cant be the leader, he hasnt shown any consistancy thus far, and he isnt mentally tough enough, plus he cant stay on the floor enough to be a leader.
I can tell your not a Rocket fan, you dont know jack about their players. Yao has shown amazing consistency what exactly isnt he consistent with? And obviously Im not talking about his ability to lead from the sidelines, Im talking about when the team is healthy because, frankly if Yao isnt healthy it doesnt matter who on the floor remaining is left to be the leader. Yao is and will always be the driving force behind their championship aspiration. Thus hes the leader, hes the one who hits or sets up the clutch shots, Artest isnt a great enough passer or shot maker to do what Yao or Tmac can.


Same with tracey. Artest has the entire package they need. He isnt and wont be the leader, and thats fine, but since he is the best player that is most likely to be there EVER night, he shoudl be the leader.

More of your historical inaccuracies he isnt their best player, and he lacks the entire package to be a great number 1 option.

Chronz
11-08-2008, 09:46 AM
19- I have NEVER questioned macs skill. I have said repeatedly that he is a great talent. HOWEVER, others have done more while being injured. Jordan had a fever and the flu yet dropped like 60...but ok, since it wasnt an injury
Why would you waste time bringing up the flu if you know it wasnt an injury? More of you trying to sound like you know something?


lets talk about AI (whom you failed to mention)...he had like 13 injuries during that run...how can you counter that??? or will you just overlook it like you already have tried? You said yourself Tmac just has to live with his back...so if he has to live with it, he can moderately get used to the pain. AI's injuries were new...what is harder to adjust to? new injuries or recurring problems?
LOL I never run from any of your arguments. But to answer your question why dont you just ask Larry Bird. Back spasms are far more dehibilitating to a player than any of the injuries AI sustained in that finals run. You can adapt your game but your never again the same player. If Tmac were to return to his agressive style of play where he defends with proper low stance, boxes out and draws contact, protect the rim, keeping low dribbles he would be out half a season again. If you can play with your injuries its obviously not as severe.


20- ok...you are the wise one that decides what is valid and not..i forgot, im dealing with an uncommon man:rolleyes: disprove me before you say something is invalid. arent all the BEST players drafted? Didnt they have the 1st pick??? how is what I said invalid??? it isnt. It seemed smart, but thats if you dont evaluate the talent you're about to get. It was pretty much a given that yao wasnt going to remain healthy. he's too freakishly large. taking it all in, he got what he deserved.
LMAO your getting ridiculously easy man, 2 words KWAME BROWN POTENTIAL isnt a certainty and neither are injuries. Yao up to that point played 80+ games on the regular. Not every single number 1 draft pick makes it to the franchise level. Hindsight is 20/20, nobody knew how long it would take for Dwight to dominate and Tmac wasnt about to wait to find out, especially not with that idiotic hockey manager screwing up the team.


21- NO...he is everything I said. He is selfish...prove me wrong.
Watch more of his games and you would see what Jeff Van Gundy once called " a player who makes the RIGHT play, based on the players around him.

When JVG first got for Tmac he had a sour reputation for being a selfish player, JVG started breaking down film on Tmac and immediately defended him (Still does to this day). George Karl has noted Tmac for his unselfish style of play hes even gone as far as telling Carmelo to be more like him and stop being so selfish, again hes one of the best passers in the game and he makes the right passes not just the assist passes.


he cant elevate his team...prove me wrong(you cant cuz he's 0-7)
Why dont you prove to me how his team failing to advance proves he cant elevate his team before I dignify that with a response....


...he isnt a leader...prove me wrong(you cant is tmac himself has implied on multiple occasions that he doesnt want to lead, and he cant even remember any of his teammates, and the only time any teammate has come out of his mouth is when he is placing blame) you cant prove me wrong.
He is a leader, I can prove you wrong by pointing at how much his teams have overachieved.


instead, when you disagree but cant validate anything , you do your whole...im right, all you say is untruths, and im not a common man BS.

NOPE


22- funny, i thought ud be smart enough to understand that we all recognize mutumbo and what he brings defensively. i thought ud understand that it was offense that was theachilles heel of that team...maybe i gave you too much credit.

So if you understand what he brought then why would you limit the support AI has to the OFFENSIVE side of the court? Arent you suppose to be smarter than that?


23- your posting style sucks!!!! jp..i isnt that bad if you care enough to quote and disect every part. I do not. it isnt summarizing for me. I expound too much. I still have all the information in my post...its just framed differently.

Like I said before, if this is you expanding then I feel bad for you.


24- it isnt cowardice at all. honestly man, you are really making me want to take back my appology. i will let it go for now, but for the future, u arent about to talk to me just any way that you feel...k, cupcake????

How can I make you take back an apology that wasnt present at the time of this writing? If I had known you werent purposely trying to be a dick I may have worded my thoughts differently, or not I really dont know but that was cowardice. Asking me to look up something that you are using to support your own argument is pathetic. Why dont you support your own arguments? Is it because you know I will just pick it apart any ways?



25- maybe i am a bully:mad:...regardless, its ok if you are fat and lazy. ur the type that would say if you werent...its cool. do you(meaning do what you do). and for the record you have disproven yourself. to say that you arent on a childish level of insulting, yet how many insults have been in your posts???? just pointing it out.

I question your intelligence, not your lifestyle. There are certain boundaries that do not pertain to basketball that I will not cross, I may be immature but Im not at your level of immaturity.


26- never said he is an angel. i just said kobe's interview is what you expect of a leader. it was to the point and didnt place blame. it just said this is what we lacked as a team, and we all realize it and are better and stronger now.

And Kobe trashing his teammates behind their back is exactly what you would expect from a leader huh.... nobody fits the idea of the perfect leader. Basing ones leadership off of interviews is sad, you dont know what gos on behind the scenes, you can only go off of what a players peers says about him. And thus far, Ive heard nothing but great things about Mcgrady, Ive seen plenty of supporting situations that promote great leadership (such as him embracing teammates despite their lack of success)


27- so...instead of proving me wrong, you avoid it and attack kobe now. great!!! regardless, i never said kobe always was the definition of a class act nor leader. but now he is. now, he does what is expected of the best. mac has never acceoted blam, but please...im asking you again...PROVE ME WRONG...show me one time he accepts the blame.


Nope Kobe proves my point, of course hes going to act peaches and cream now, Bynum has more than justified the Lakers choice to retain him. How stupid would Kobe look if he continued his stance? Your only proving that Kobe is not a moron.

Chronz
11-08-2008, 09:47 AM
please delete, double post

Chronz
11-08-2008, 09:49 AM
I agree its fun watching a one-sided slugout

There will be more where that came from, IF this continues

barreleffact
11-08-2008, 06:33 PM
He accepts criticism so long as its justified, him not getting past the first round isnt on him when hes played so well.

To debate with phrases such as, "no one thought the Hornets would make it the 2nd round" is underdoing it, your not putting much effort into your analysis. Thats what the common man does...

Like Ive said before, we are nothing alike. Its not about changing beliefs, believe me Ive seen countless like you. Most of your analysis on players has been very half assed, you dont bring up any aspects of a players game and the ones you do turn out to be incorrect. Gooden and defense for example...

Tmac in his prime did the same, he just wasnt blessed with the team CP3 has around him in his prime.

Youve yet to prove this, Tmac's teams have always overachieved aside from that pathetic 04 season when all the heavy lifting and lack of support finally caught up to the team. He also began his regression

Mac loves being the leader, he takes the blame and has said he understands why people criticize his play, he just doesnt agree that its his fault the team didnt get past the first round and most knowledgeable experts and his teammates agree, Tmac gets an unfair amount of criticism. CP3 hasnt been in those situations so comparing their situations isnt very telling.

Thats because you dont know much about Tmac's game.

What were his exact words?

He doesnt get why people put so much blame on him when there are more GLARING factors as to why the team failed to win.

No he didnt, he wasnt baited into anything, he said that its on him to relieve his teammates of any sort of playoff pressure. And what did he say?

Show me the evidence, from the way youve interpreted this interview I highly doubt you understand the context of anything that may have been addressed.

Please dont talk about PER unless you know the details of the numbers, and even if you did Tmac's peak PER was higher than CP3's. In fact he posted the highest PER from a perimeter player since Michael Jordan, see how much potential he had before the back problems arrived?

Incorrect, Mac was always more than a scorer, he was one of the best all-around players in the league and he wasnt the defensive liability that CP3 has been.

What inept abilities do I possess?

LMAO, nope 6th man is given to the best player off the bench, the DPOY is given to the best defender, MVP is given to the best story on the most surprising team, well thats how it works in theory anyway.

Exactly, you just admitted that regardless of how great AI was he NEEDED someone to mask his weaknesses, he NEEDED Snow to gaurd the players he could not while simultaneously running the offense he refused to.

Yes, Tmac was excited going into the playoffs. Thats all youve proven

I dont deal in REBOUNDS PER GAME, they are influenced by minutes, shots missed, and the overall pace of the game. If your still dealing with the least accurate measures of rebounding prowess then your opinion on how good of a rebounder they both are is moot. You simply dont know enough about the players.

What intangibles, if you cant name them then why should I believe in your ability to recognize them? Obviously there must be respect and trust but players could hate eachother and bring out the best in one another (Bird/McHale Kobe/Shaq).
So Kobe is a bad leader because he dissed Bynum? Was MJ a bad leader for punching his players in practice? Was Rodman a bad leader because he partied the night before games? Mac didnt diss his teammates and his teammates love playing with him, as far as superstars go Tmac has always been unselfish. Your ability to comprehend Tmacs words are in question, he speaks the truth and talks highly of his teammates. Saying that the opposition is more talented ISNT disrespecting your teammates, not if its true.

The game runs deeper than winning and losing, its how you won and how you lost that shows the impact a player has on the team. The fact that the Celtics struggled to put away a clearly inferior team with Ray Allen proves his value because if he wouldve been playing up to par this team wouldve looked as good as it did in the regular season, it wasnt until Ray got it going did the Celtics become title contenders again. I and many other Laker fans can attest to this guarantee, if Ray had played as poorly as he did in the earlier rounds the Celtics wouldnt have won so easily.

Exactly they wouldnt be contenders without RAY ALLEN, the same guy you said the Celtics could be still be elite WITHOUT.......

You dont have to get punched out on the streets to hurt your ego, words are just as powerful.

WTF are you talking about, Im looking at the last time you used the number 17 and its the comment where you called me fat. Again quote me, its not that hard to do and actually could save you time. Im literally reading your post as I go thru it.

Because you have very little understanding of the Rockets as a team and their history, the player himself doesnt want to be the leader and wasnt brought in to be the leader in the first place. We havent seen them at full strength so suggesting anyone else other than Yao should be the leader is foolish.
I can tell your not a Rocket fan, you dont know jack about their players. Yao has shown amazing consistency what exactly isnt he consistent with? And obviously Im not talking about his ability to lead from the sidelines, Im talking about when the team is healthy because, frankly if Yao isnt healthy it doesnt matter who on the floor remaining is left to be the leader. Yao is and will always be the driving force behind their championship aspiration. Thus hes the leader, hes the one who hits or sets up the clutch shots, Artest isnt a great enough passer or shot maker to do what Yao or Tmac can.


More of your historical inaccuracies he isnt their best player, and he lacks the entire package to be a great number 1 option.

this is how I am about to do things, I am goin to delete most of what you wrote instead of quoting it all. this is becoming far too long and its really growing rathe r annoying. if you actualy argued instead of just stating another is wrong, that would be one thing but the majority of the things you say lack substance. in fact, most of the time you chop part of what i said and ask a question into it that is clearly answered in the next part that you quote. not bringing up insults again, but that is why i called you inept. u fail to realize a persons point. you fail to understand or even follow what someone is getting at a lot of the time. moving on

1- you havent proven me wrong yet. show me one interview that he accepts some blame. idc what JVG says abouthim, yes he is his former coach, but apparently if he was labeled selfish it has to have at least a little truth to it. and when I called the man selfish, i wasnt referring to his willingness to pass. anyone who watches the game understands that the man can pass and run an offense. I am saying he is selfish because he takes all the blame for wins but when things go sour he wants none of it. maybe i should have stuck with immature like i called him in a far earlier post.

2- you still fail to understand my point. I am trying to show you how to convey yourself to thers. One way seemed respectable...your way seemed arrogant to say the least. I can see there is no hope for you thus far. again, not trying to insult, but rather advise. you should carry yourself better and actually stick to the point someone is trying to argue. In all honesty, I think you may just have a problem with admitting when you are wrong. I hope you can evolve and overcome that.

3- tell me..what did i say about gooden D that was incorrect?? I said Tyson is a better defender; did I not? I just said that Gooden was decent, and was a better offensive player...But you failed to argue against that. Instead you picked a mutual agreement and decided to try to degrade me with it...awkwaaaaard...no wait...half ***** on your part. I mean seriously, dont tell me what i know. Ive studied ball for as long as Ive been watching it.

and we are a lot alike actually. I see you as a less mature version of myself. Back in the day I couldnt allow anyone to be right, and I had a superiority complex...now, I know better.

4- you speak as if paul's team last year was actually championship caliber. his team was trash, but they tailored to each players individual game. CP3 allowed everyone to show off what they could really do. Mac cant be like CP3 in terms of leadership nor making people better.

Mac's teams in Houston have been better all around than CP3's teams. His teams in orlando were comparable. Gooden and Tyson are equal dude. One is a better rebounder and defender, one is a more capable offensive talent. Lue and Mo Pete are both scrubs that can occasionally perform very well. West is the biggest x factor for paul, but he doesnt make up for the competitive western conference. i mean GS won 48 games and stil didnt make the playoffs. 48 games in the east wouldve been a seed with HCA. get out of here. I am DONE with debating that.

5- Ive proven Tmac isnt a leader time and time again. Mac cant accept blame, he blames his players by name in interviews, and he has implied at least twice that he doesnt want to be the leader. for christs sake if you are the leader/want to be...you make it known to all that its your team. it should never be questioned at all.

6- when has he EVER said he understood why people criticize? all i have ever heard from him is he doesnt know or some way to divert the blame off him. your saying that he accepts it means little if you cant back it. i have given you titles or at least ways to fing his last 3 interviews(the ones that i refer to)

7- riiight...because I dont watch him riiight? Because I havent watched him since orlando....you know everything about me...you can tell everywhere Ive been and everything I know..i forgot...u arent a common man. please, guy...dont tell me what I know. I call em how I see them. and paul could be the best EVER. Mac was just a prolific scorer.

8- watch his last interview with Stephen A. please , dont disect half of my argument and aske questions that are answered in the other half

9- as the leader, its your fault.

10- watch the damned interview. He was baited into saying anything meaningful. He didnt have any emotion at all until Stephen A kept trying to pull some out of him. it had nothing to do with taking pressure off of his team. it was just to say that that had been his best chance to advance thus far, and at that point, it was.

11- look it up, at one point he started saying that it was other's faults and never said anything he couldve done. He even pointed out scola specifically. his "its my fault" rant was an absolute disgrace. it showed emphatically that he isnt a leader.

12- it took mac 5 years to have that peak...and it was FAR higher than any other part of his career...about 5 points higher actually. then he dropped back down. Let's see how effective Paul will be 5 years in.

13- You mean when CP3 was a rookie??? He;s an improved defender now, and besides...the man is only 6' tall. going against people with more size, reach, and strength every night would imply he will be a defensive liability. but he has improved leaps and bounds and is decent now. Mac was never a GREAT defender. He was decent at best.

14- you lack comprehension. you cant usderstand what people are trying to say. you lack the ability to properly interpret the point of ones argument.

15- and that proves that they didnt overachieve??? no. their ability to overachieve got them their individual awards. that isnt a knock, but its the truth.

16- everyone needs someone...whats your point?? mine was that his team sucked. they did OFFENSIVELY...defensively they wee solid.

17- come now...u arent the "common man" right? youve seen the interview...nvm. i doubt youve seen any of the 3 i refer to. No...I didnt prove that he was excited. I proved that Someone had to draw out of him passion. I proved that someone had to force him to understand that its his team and that failure is reflected negatively on him. thats what I proved.=

18- again, you try to tell me what i know. you seriously need to get a grip on yourself. you are very arrogant. regardless, your points are invalid to mine. I already said chandler is teh better rebounder. i just pointed out that gooden can get you 10 per. keep up please!!! this is why i called you inept. you fail to comprehend and then argue points ive either made or agreed to.

19- you just named superstars that respected but hated each other...we are talking about a start and role players...HUGE DIFFERENCE. Mac doesnt respect his, Paul does. thats a key as to why paul can draw the most out of his team IMO. it makes for less pressure. And as far as jordan...he drew the most out of his people by fear. thats okay. w/e works. and no...giving the team that beats you respect isnt a diss. kobe gave the celtics respect in his last interview. in fact giving opposition(that beat you) respect is actually respecting yourself. but saying your team was trash, none of them are in the league, that you had no expectations..thats dirsrespectful...see the difference? I doubt you do in all honesty.

20- UNDERSTAND MY POINTS.....I NEVER said Allen wasnt valuable. I said KG could have been a contender with only one of them and the same supporting cast. ALLEN PROOVED THAT!!!! KG and PP led them into the ECF without allen having any kind of impact. once you are in the ECF you are a legit contender. therefore, with KG and Pierce and no allen, they were still contenders. Allen was valuable and definately helped put them over the hump, but he proved that one of them could be expendable and they could still push through.

21- They would still have made the playoffs and definately been contenders without ray. However, I dont see them winning it all without him. I couldnt see them getting a ring without both, but being in the mix/contending...yes, I could easily see that in the east....BECAUSE THEY PROVED IT

22- sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. if anything, you seem like th type to talk over the computer, but you cant back anything up. I pity you for that.

23- we started talkin about tankin, and you brought up health...dumb comparison. and if you were saying dont win to preserve health at the risk of a less favorable seeding, thats ******** to. you want to win every game you can. Your argument is conflicting. pick a side. either you want to win them all, or you want to tank for a better matchup. which one is it?

24- Yao has not shown any consistancy SO FAR.... meaning this season...again, you cant comprehend. the man just came back from a foot injury, I figured you could put it together...you arent a common man right?

25- I NEVER said he's their best player. I said he's their best player THAT IS MOST LIKELY TO BE THERE ALL 82 GAMES....comprehension boi...please develope it

barreleffact
11-08-2008, 06:47 PM
Why would you waste time bringing up the flu if you know it wasnt an injury? More of you trying to sound like you know something?

LMAO your getting ridiculously easy man, 2 words KWAME BROWN POTENTIAL isnt a certainty and neither are injuries. Yao up to that point played 80+ games on the regular. Not every single number 1 draft pick makes it to the franchise level. Hindsight is 20/20, nobody knew how long it would take for Dwight to dominate and Tmac wasnt about to wait to find out, especially not with that idiotic hockey manager screwing up the team.

Why dont you prove to me how his team failing to advance proves he cant elevate his team before I dignify that with a response....

So if you understand what he brought then why would you limit the support AI has to the OFFENSIVE side of the court? Arent you suppose to be smarter than that?

Like I said before, if this is you expanding then I feel bad for you.

How can I make you take back an apology that wasnt present at the time of this writing? If I had known you werent purposely trying to be a dick I may have worded my thoughts differently, or not I really dont know but that was cowardice. Asking me to look up something that you are using to support your own argument is pathetic. Why dont you support your own arguments? Is it because you know I will just pick it apart any ways?


1- no, it was to state my point. people have to play through stresses and under many different limiting factors all the time...no excuses. if you can play then you cant complain

2- How many Kwame Browns have there been? I knew you were going to bring him up...that was to obvious. I expected better of you. Busts happen...but they dont happen often. Teams are built in the draft and his unwillingness to wait and see cost him a serious chance. He could have still done the trade later(maybe). but he picked what semed like the least risky choice. Kind of like stocks. You can invest in safe or risky. risky has a chance at some serious benefits while safe will be most consistant. he chose safe and has consistantly been bounced from teh first round.

3- Im done proving things to you. Its a wasted effort with your inability to comprehend nor admit when you are wrong.

4- Back and forth...just admit that you were wrong tracey...admit that please...you suck guy. its getting old. look, we were speaking of offense. everyone knew how they were very good on D. Snow and Mutumbo were solid defenders...mutumbo especially. Offense was their achilles heel. or could you not read that??? wait, ill answer that myself...no, you couldnt!! you fail when it comes to comprehension.

5- like i have said, use better word chioce and actually understand what you are saying. Its obvious that I expound when you can type one sentence and I type 3-5 to that. Summary would have meant Id only say a small amount.

6- I wrote the appology before I reread what you had said. Then I reread it and was like...you lucky you will never see me in your life. lol. Im going to end it there, but honestly its pointless arguing with you about anything. you dont understand much but think you are a god.

GspLAL
11-08-2008, 07:33 PM
And Kobe trashing his teammates behind their back is exactly what you would expect from a leader huh..

Go look at the Lakers roster when he said that, he had a garbage team.

Chronz
11-09-2008, 03:56 AM
this is how I am about to do things, I am goin to delete most of what you wrote instead of quoting it all.
What is the point of quoting me? Your not even directly attacking my post, save PSD the space and just respond.


this is becoming far too long and its really growing rathe r annoying. if you actualy argued instead of just stating another is wrong, that would be one thing but the majority of the things you say lack substance. in fact, most of the time you chop part of what i said and ask a question into it that is clearly answered in the next part that you quote. not bringing up insults again, but that is why i called you inept. u fail to realize a persons point. you fail to understand or even follow what someone is getting at a lot of the time. moving on
I ask you questions pertaining to the theme of your post, dont get mad just because you cant put it together and back up your point.


1- you havent proven me wrong yet. show me one interview that he accepts some blame. idc what JVG says abouthim, yes he is his former coach, but apparently if he was labeled selfish it has to have at least a little truth to it.
Of course you dont care what JVG said about him, but sadly he knows more about Tmac's game than anyone and the reason Tmac had a selfish tag is because thats what bulk scorers get when they are on a bad team.


and when I called the man selfish, i wasnt referring to his willingness to pass. anyone who watches the game understands that the man can pass and run an offense. I am saying he is selfish because he takes all the blame for wins but when things go sour he wants none of it. maybe i should have stuck with immature like i called him in a far earlier post.

So hes selfish because he speaks the truth? Yes you were better off with a different choice of words, feel free to change your stance now that you know better.


2- you still fail to understand my point. I am trying to show you how to convey yourself to thers. One way seemed respectable...your way seemed arrogant to say the least. I can see there is no hope for you thus far. again, not trying to insult, but rather advise. you should carry yourself better and actually stick to the point someone is trying to argue. In all honesty, I think you may just have a problem with admitting when you are wrong. I hope you can evolve and overcome that.

Thats because you have no point, there is nothing to understand because your full of false accusations.



3- tell me..what did i say about gooden D that was incorrect??
That he played any


I said Tyson is a better defender; did I not? I just said that Gooden was decent, and was a better offensive player...But you failed to argue against that. Instead you picked a mutual agreement and decided to try to degrade me with it...awkwaaaaard...no wait...half ***** on your part. I mean seriously, dont tell me what i know. Ive studied ball for as long as Ive been watching it.
Calling Gooden a defender is incorrect, hes a rebounder who can hit the mid range shot with some consistency. Nothing half assed about me exposing you. Youve obviously havent studied it enough...


and we are a lot alike actually. I see you as a less mature version of myself. Back in the day I couldnt allow anyone to be right, and I had a superiority complex...now, I know better.

Thats why you called me fat and a world of war craft nerd....


4- you speak as if paul's team last year was actually championship caliber.
No I didnt, show me where I said they were championship caliber.... still waiting.


his team was trash, but they tailored to each players individual game. CP3 allowed everyone to show off what they could really do. Mac cant be like CP3 in terms of leadership nor making people better.
They are different players, CP3 cant be like Mac in terms of defending, rebounding, scoring.



Mac's teams in Houston have been better all around than CP3's teams.
Mac in Houston wasnt as great as Mac in Orlando


His teams in orlando were comparable.
We will make a poll on this one, we shall see who had the better supporting cast.


Gooden and Tyson are equal dude. One is a better rebounder and defender, one is a more capable offensive talent.
Thats the extent of your analysis? How do you quantify their offensive and defensive abilities to the point where you can say they are equals despite not a single shred of evidence. Nobody would pay Gooden the type of money Tyson Chandler got and this was BEFORE he blew up.


Lue and Mo Pete are both scrubs that can occasionally perform very well.
They play different positions and Lue wasnt a Magic until that disastrous season.


West is the biggest x factor for paul, but he doesnt make up for the competitive western conference. i mean GS won 48 games and stil didnt make the playoffs. 48 games in the east wouldve been a seed with HCA. get out of here. I am DONE with debating that.

So you basically analyzed 3 players, if you can call that an analysis and mentioned the conference and thats suppose to prove their support was equal? How did you come to that conclusion, what factors influenced your decision? Without West, how good is that team?


5- Ive proven Tmac isnt a leader time and time again.
Nope


Mac cant accept blame, he blames his players by name in interviews, and he has implied at least twice that he doesnt want to be the leader. for christs sake if you are the leader/want to be...you make it known to all that its your team. it should never be questioned at all.

Mac can take blame so long as its justified, in an interview regarding why he hasnt gotten past the first round hes not to blame.


6- when has he EVER said he understood why people criticize? all i have ever heard from him is he doesnt know or some way to divert the blame off him. your saying that he accepts it means little if you cant back it. i have given you titles or at least ways to fing his last 3 interviews(the ones that i refer to)

Follow the Rockets, hes had games where he directly puts the loss on his shoulders, a game against the Pacers when Yao first went out. Hes done so on different occasions. What exactly do you want from me so I can shut your trap already.


7- riiight...because I dont watch him riiight? Because I havent watched him since orlando....you know everything about me...you can tell everywhere Ive been and everything I know..i forgot...u arent a common man. please, guy...dont tell me what I know. I call em how I see them. and paul could be the best EVER. Mac was just a prolific scorer.

You call it how YOU SEE IT, but you definitely dont call it HOW IT IS.
I dont doubt that youve seen him play, only that you know what it is that your watching.



8- watch his last interview with Stephen A. please , dont disect half of my argument and aske questions that are answered in the other half

Ive seen it, what are you talking about?


9- as the leader, its your fault.
Only if your a moron, in a team game the end result is obviously based on more than the performance of one man.


10- watch the damned interview. He was baited into saying anything meaningful. He didnt have any emotion at all until Stephen A kept trying to pull some out of him. it had nothing to do with taking pressure off of his team. it was just to say that that had been his best chance to advance thus far, and at that point, it was.

It had everything to do with taking pressure off of his teammates, why are we going back and forth on this? Your not going to change this fact, Ive seen the interview and the ones proceeding it, Ill take his word over yours.



11- look it up, at one point he started saying that it was other's faults and never said anything he couldve done. He even pointed out scola specifically. his "its my fault" rant was an absolute disgrace. it showed emphatically that he isnt a leader.

Look what up?


12- it took mac 5 years to have that peak...and it was FAR higher than any other part of his career...about 5 points higher actually. then he dropped back down. Let's see how effective Paul will be 5 years in.

LOL Tmac entered the league as an 18 year old remember. He had a peak at the age of 23, the same age CP3 was last year. Development curves have CP3 reaching an insane level this year but that has nothing to do with what they accomplished in the past. And CP3's performance last year was FAR higher than in any part of his career.


13- You mean when CP3 was a rookie??? He;s an improved defender now, and besides...the man is only 6' tall. going against people with more size, reach, and strength every night would imply he will be a defensive liability. but he has improved leaps and bounds and is decent now. Mac was never a GREAT defender. He was decent at best.

You know nothing about Tmac, he was an elite defender in Orlando ESPECIALLY come playoff time. Look up my past posts if you want the proof.


14- you lack comprehension. you cant usderstand what people are trying to say. you lack the ability to properly interpret the point of ones argument.

Thats why I breeze through your so called arguments, I understand the point you are TRYING to make its just not consistent with the reality of the situation.


15- and that proves that they didnt overachieve??? no. their ability to overachieve got them their individual awards. that isnt a knock, but its the truth.

What are you talking about, whos they?


16- everyone needs someone...whats your point?? mine was that his team sucked. they did OFFENSIVELY...defensively they wee solid.

What?


17- come now...u arent the "common man" right? youve seen the interview...nvm. i doubt youve seen any of the 3 i refer to. No...I didnt prove that he was excited. I proved that Someone had to draw out of him passion. I proved that someone had to force him to understand that its his team and that failure is reflected negatively on him. thats what I proved.=

Passion doesnt change truth



18- again, you try to tell me what i know. you seriously need to get a grip on yourself. you are very arrogant. regardless, your points are invalid to mine. I already said chandler is teh better rebounder. i just pointed out that gooden can get you 10 per. keep up please!!! this is why i called you inept. you fail to comprehend and then argue points ive either made or agreed to.

I KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO SAY. I was merely showing you why your analysis are so laughable. Re-read my sentence as to why if your still lost. You simply arent using the most accurate measures of rebounding prowess so your opinion on how well they can rebound is irrelevant, you know nothing of stats.


19- you just named superstars that respected but hated each other...we are talking about a start and role players...HUGE DIFFERENCE. Mac doesnt respect his, Paul does. thats a key as to why paul can draw the most out of his team IMO. it makes for less pressure. And as far as jordan...he drew the most out of his people by fear. thats okay. w/e works. and no...giving the team that beats you respect isnt a diss. kobe gave the celtics respect in his last interview. in fact giving opposition(that beat you) respect is actually respecting yourself. but saying your team was trash, none of them are in the league, that you had no expectations..thats dirsrespectful...see the difference? I doubt you do in all honesty.

Whats the difference? MJ punched Steve Kerr, is that respect enough? Of course Kobe isnt going to call the team that got him to the finals trash, but he did single out players on a team that failed to get him past the first round.


20- UNDERSTAND MY POINTS.....I NEVER said Allen wasnt valuable. I said KG could have been a contender with only one of them and the same supporting cast. ALLEN PROOVED THAT!!!!
I understand the point you were TRYING to make, its just not true. The evidence was in their play and how they struggled to put away teams they shouldve embarrassed, the reason? Ray Allen


KG and PP led them into the ECF without allen having any kind of impact.
Youve only proven that they could barely win against the Hawks and Cavs without Ray Allen, NOT that they are contenders.


once you are in the ECF you are a legit contender. therefore, with KG and Pierce and no allen, they were still contenders. Allen was valuable and definately helped put them over the hump, but he proved that one of them could be expendable and they could still push through.

Nope, you arent a contender until your play dictates that, the Celtics were contenders once Ray Allen recovered, if Ray had continued to suck then they wouldnt have won against the better teams.


21- They would still have made the playoffs and definately been contenders without ray. However, I dont see them winning it all without him. I couldnt see them getting a ring without both, but being in the mix/contending...yes, I could easily see that in the east....BECAUSE THEY PROVED IT

If by contenders you mean ECF contenders then yes, but not TITLE CONTENDERS. Moving on


22- sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. if anything, you seem like th type to talk over the computer, but you cant back anything up. I pity you for that.

I back EVERYTHING up


23- we started talkin about tankin, and you brought up health...dumb comparison. and if you were saying dont win to preserve health at the risk of a less favorable seeding, thats ******** to. you want to win every game you can. Your argument is conflicting. pick a side. either you want to win them all, or you want to tank for a better matchup. which one is it?

I said theyd rather be healthy than strive for the number 1 seed, please do keep up.


24- Yao has not shown any consistancy SO FAR.... meaning this season...again, you cant comprehend. the man just came back from a foot injury, I figured you could put it together...you arent a common man right?

So your basing who should be the leader on how hurt players are performing? Your not even the common man, the common man has more COMMON SENSE. Besides all of the big 3 have lacked consistency, theyve all pretty much sucked in different games.


25- I NEVER said he's their best player. I said he's their best player THAT IS MOST LIKELY TO BE THERE ALL 82 GAMES....comprehension boi...please develope it

82 games played equates to being the leader now? Hardly, Im talking about the team when its at its best for the 10th time, please do keep up.

Chronz
11-09-2008, 04:05 AM
1- no, it was to state my point. people have to play through stresses and under many different limiting factors all the time...no excuses. if you can play then you cant complain
Ill quote Charles Barkley on this one, You CAN play HURT, You CANT play INJURED.


2- How many Kwame Browns have there been? I knew you were going to bring him up...that was to obvious. I expected better of you. Busts happen...but they dont happen often. Teams are built in the draft and his unwillingness to wait and see cost him a serious chance. He could have still done the trade later(maybe). but he picked what semed like the least risky choice. Kind of like stocks. You can invest in safe or risky. risky has a chance at some serious benefits while safe will be most consistant. he chose safe and has consistantly been bounced from teh first round.
Its because I know better that I mentioned Kwame but just because you had to be a dick why dont you check out the previous HIGH SCHOOL lottery picks that were hyped up, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry. He chose the route of the sure thing, Yao > Dwight potential wise at that point. Either way why are we still talking about this, its only exposing your hatred for Tmac. Why bash a player for making a career decision? There is no guarantee either way and he chose the route of the pairing himself with the better player.


3- Im done proving things to you. Its a wasted effort with your inability to comprehend nor admit when you are wrong.

When did you ever start?


4- Back and forth...just admit that you were wrong tracey...admit that please...you suck guy. its getting old. look, we were speaking of offense. everyone knew how they were very good on D. Snow and Mutumbo were solid defenders...mutumbo especially. Offense was their achilles heel. or could you not read that??? wait, ill answer that myself...no, you couldnt!! you fail when it comes to comprehension.

If everyone knew this then why did you limit your choice to only the offensive side of the court? Why not say who did AI ever play alongside of? The answer wouldve been the DPOY, the 6TH man and a COY to boot. Obviously there was more to the team than just 2 guys but you wouldnt want me to acknowledge them either.


5- like i have said, use better word chioce and actually understand what you are saying. Its obvious that I expound when you can type one sentence and I type 3-5 to that. Summary would have meant Id only say a small amount.

GAIN SOME PERSPECTIVE, to me what you write is brief summary. You dont delve into any subject or even attempt to analyze a players contributions. Quite frankly Ive been waiting for this debate to begin but you continue to summarize.


6- I wrote the appology before I reread what you had said. Then I reread it and was like...you lucky you will never see me in your life. lol. Im going to end it there, but honestly its pointless arguing with you about anything. you dont understand much but think you are a god.

OK this changes nothing

Chronz
11-09-2008, 04:07 AM
Go look at the Lakers roster when he said that, he had a garbage team.
No doubt, Im not blaming him. Merely pointing out that no matter how great of a leader Kobe is, no one is perfect. Players let their feelings be known, it doesnt diminish their status so long as they are correct in their beliefs

barreleffact
11-09-2008, 04:44 AM
chronz...i would respond, but there is no hope for you. you suck tracey's dick too hard toaccept that he cant accept blame and isnt a good leader. w/e. if you are the only one to disagree, then i have made my point to everyone that isnt inept or isnt a rockets fan...lol. but seriously, i hope you can mature one day and that you improve your debating abilities, and comprehension. If you ever have ANY realistic aspirations of being an analyst, you need to vastly improve. Take what Ive said and use it as motivation because the you that you are now sucks big balls. the you that you could be...probably sucks smaller balls but only time will tell. peace

Chronz
11-09-2008, 06:47 PM
Cry me a river, your full of empty insults with no factual basis behind any of your arguments, you can never answer any of my questions regarding the points you do try to make and most importantly your too scared to directly attack my posts. You say you dont want to make the effort but if its so easy for me to dissect your arguments then what does that say about you? Whats so hard about it? It really takes less time than you think, unless your slower in the head than I originally thought.

Your opinion on my debating skills means about as much as your ability to break down a players rebounding prowess. Keep trying barrell you'll get it someday.

barreleffact
11-09-2008, 06:56 PM
Cry me a river, your full of empty insults with no factual basis behind any of your arguments, you can never answer any of my questions regarding the points you do try to make and most importantly your too scared to directly attack my posts. You say you dont want to make the effort but if its so easy for me to dissect your arguments then what does that say about you? Whats so hard about it? It really takes less time than you think, unless your slower in the head than I originally thought.

Your opinion on my debating skills means about as much as your ability to break down a players rebounding prowess. Keep trying barrell you'll get it someday.

Hilarious guy...the funnies thing youve said since your "common man" delusion. Regardless, if everyone else agrees with me, and you are the only one that doesnt....who is actually the ******** one??? hop off nuts and look at reality. deuce/peace/im out/ b-e-z/ holla/ goodbye(just in case you can not comprehend the previous closings)

Chronz
11-09-2008, 07:02 PM
LMAO Whos everyone? And youve tried to get out of this argument like 3 times already yet you continue to come back.

PS How old are you, every one of your posts is exactly the same as the other, you mention comprehension every time, is that the big boy word of the month for you. Anyone who breaks down your arguments is unable to comprehend your point in your mind, yet here you are, not answering the very questions necessary to support your opinion. Ive answered any of the questions youve asked of me and then some. Yet somehow I cant comprehend, lol now you got me saying it.

barreleffact
11-09-2008, 07:17 PM
LMAO Whos everyone? And youve tried to get out of this argument like 3 times already yet you continue to come back.

PS How old are you, every one of your posts is exactly the same as the other, you mention comprehension every time, is that the big boy word of the month for you. Anyone who breaks down your arguments is unable to comprehend your point in your mind, yet here you are, not answering the very questions necessary to support your opinion. Ive answered any of the questions youve asked of me and then some. Yet somehow I cant comprehend, lol now you got me saying it.

read the posts from others in this thread...majority of them...especially later in, agree with me. no, i use comprehension because i know you lack it. not word of the month...the word of the month for me is platitudinous actually....jp. but seriously...how old are you??? you seem very immature. you dont answer most of my questions at all. your general responses are along the lines of nope or youre wrong or something like that. the vast majority of your arguments lack any supporting facts. you still bring up rebounding which idc at all. gooden gets 10 per....stfu. i never said he's a better rebounder but u argue as if i did. thats why i say you are inept. thats why i say you lack comprehension. thats why i say you suck. I come back because im the final word type and because i refuse to let some pompous, arrogant, inept, immature, utter fool talk anything negative about me. at times you have strong arguments but those times are few and far between.

Faneik
11-09-2008, 08:45 PM
Hey Chronz, in your own words:

Barreleffact "owned" you, he totally won this "battle". LOL.

Guess it is not just me who thinks you act superior.

So you want to be an analyst, and think that dominating other posters will establish yourself as a great insider? I know you try really hard so let me tell you this: you take PSD way too seriously.

A little tip in the pursue of your analyst career:
Don't act so superior, it will draw a distance between you and your readers, and that's bad business.

Chronz
11-09-2008, 10:22 PM
Hey Chronz, in your own words:

Barreleffact "owned" you, he totally won this "battle". LOL.

Guess it is not just me who thinks you act superior.
For the sake of argument lets say that I was acting superior how does he own me on that premise if he still couldnt answer any of the questions and all of his absurd evaluations of the players.


So you want to be an analyst, and think that dominating other posters will establish yourself as a great insider? I know you try really hard so let me tell you this: you take PSD way too seriously.

Heres the funny part Im not really trying all that much. Im simply answering any and all questions. Dont see what would make you think Im taking any of this seriously. After all we have BOTH been engaged in this debate for awhile now.


A little tip in the pursue of your analyst career:
Don't act so superior, it will draw a distance between you and your readers, and that's bad business.

Thats your opinion I really dont care

Chronz
11-09-2008, 10:38 PM
read the posts from others in this thread...majority of them...especially later in, agree with me. no, i use comprehension because i know you lack it. not word of the month...the word of the month for me is platitudinous actually....jp. but seriously...how old are you??? you seem very immature. you dont answer most of my questions at all. your general responses are along the lines of nope or youre wrong or something like that. the vast majority of your arguments lack any supporting facts. you still bring up rebounding which idc at all. gooden gets 10 per....stfu. i never said he's a better rebounder but u argue as if i did. thats why i say you are inept. thats why i say you lack comprehension. thats why i say you suck. I come back because im the final word type and because i refuse to let some pompous, arrogant, inept, immature, utter fool talk anything negative about me. at times you have strong arguments but those times are few and far between.

So your EVERYBODY consists of 2 people? yadda yadda yadda Ive answered any and all of your questions, do you just sit on your computer and say the exact opposite of what I say? It doesnt make sense and I think Im beginning to understand why you never respond directly to my questions. Its simple FEAR

Notice how you never care about facts. Your ability to evaluate rebounds came into question and you didnt know how to respond. This debate never began but Im making the poll to see what the masses think...


Debate Issue #1 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7273920#post7273920): Gooden vs Tyson Chandler

CP3's impact on West (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7274154#post7274154)

Well Im off to see the game, have fun insulting me barrel you know Ill be back to respond.