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View Full Version : Billups for Iverson Deal official



JordansBulls
11-03-2008, 11:45 AM
Source: Boston (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2008/11/02/shaq_isnt_fading_away/?page=3)



NBA sources said the Nuggets have inquired about obtaining Denver native Chauncey Billups from the Pistons for Allen Iverson. Because of Iverson's lucrative contract ($20.8 million) it would take more than Billups ($11 million),



I think the Pistons need to do something like this. I don't think they can win it all with the same squad anymore.

PG Iverson
SG Hamilton
SF Prince
PF Wallace
C McDyess


I'm just not sure what else the Pistons would have to give up to make this work.

innovator
11-03-2008, 12:04 PM
maybe mcdyess and billups for iverson?

WindyCityFlyer
11-03-2008, 12:23 PM
A source close to Nuggets guard Allen Iverson is telling people in Denver that he expects to be traded to the Pistons for Chauncey Billups.
Wow. Billups makes half of what Iverson does, so more players would need to be involved for the deal to work. The Nuggets need a reliable point guard and Billups is known to be on the market, so this is a reasonable move for both teams. Nov. 3 - 11:13 am et
Source: Boston Globe

FOBolous
11-03-2008, 12:26 PM
so how would Iverson being in Detroit effect his fantasy value?

ShakeN'Bake
11-03-2008, 12:28 PM
Stephen A Smith on sportscenter says the deal could be done any minute now...

Idk if I believe him though.

WindyCityFlyer
11-03-2008, 12:29 PM
UPDATE:
The Pistons have reached a tentative agreement with the Nuggets to trade Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess in exchange for Allen Iverson.
Wow. The Nuggets need a reliable point guard and Billups is known to be on the market, so this is a reasonable move for both teams. Neither player attended today's shootaround, so it looks like this might be a done deal. Nov. 3 - 11:13 am et

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 12:31 PM
I don't get it...


Nuggets do need a reliable PG, but we need a reliable PG along with A.I......Not givin away A.I. for that reliable PG....We had a good PG in Andre Miller when A.I. wasn't here, and that didn't work out....But I guess it will be best to finally get J.R. in the startin line up so he can potentially flourish to be a possible allstar in this league.

jmoney23
11-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Stephen A. Smith just said on ESPN First Take that a deal, pending physicals, will send Iverson to the Pistons for Billups and McDyess...

mkool65
11-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Why wouldn't this have been done in the offseason? This is just gonna set both teams back for a couple weeks before it helps anybody. As a Pistons fan I really dont know how I feel about this. I love Chauncey but this could help us out a lot. We will see.

Ph1lly Diehard
11-03-2008, 12:35 PM
Fantastic, now we get to see AI in the East.

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 12:41 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 12:41 PM
The above link... Marc Spears was a sports columnist in Denver for years and years. I trust his word (No Vescey).

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 12:42 PM
I don't get it...


Nuggets do need a reliable PG, but we need a reliable PG along with A.I......Not givin away A.I. for that reliable PG....We had a good PG in Andre Miller when A.I. wasn't here, and that didn't work out....But I guess it will be best to finally get J.R. in the startin line up so he can potentially flourish to be a possible allstar in this league.

Yep, it's a vote of confidence in J.R. and the future of the young core of the Nuggets - JR, Melo, Nene.

JordansBulls
11-03-2008, 12:47 PM
Do you like this move?

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 12:51 PM
Do you like this move?


Its like this....The reason we have been unable to start J.R., is because A.I. doesn't play PG....So instead we had Anthony Carter as our starting PG and A.I. as our starting SG......Chauncey Billups comin to this team, will give Karl a chance to start J.R.....And J.R. will be the most improved player, and in my mind, an ELITE PLAYER....Our GUARD POSITION will have size, and wont be small, and Billups brings that wining mentality to the team, that he;s been livin with in Detroit.....OVERALL, I rather have kept A.I....But I can realize that this does more good then harm, because Chauncey seems to still have it in him to get things done.

Sixerlover
11-03-2008, 12:54 PM
AI in detroit. Farewell to Chauncey leading the team, it looks kinda weird.

mkool65
11-03-2008, 01:00 PM
It will take a long time for me to get used to seeing someone else leading this team out there. The big question is what number will AI wear?

innovator
11-03-2008, 01:01 PM
so is this a done deal?

charlsdq7
11-03-2008, 01:01 PM
wow good trade, who makes it further Detroit or Nuggets??

mkool65
11-03-2008, 01:03 PM
Detroit because we are in the East.

Pharoe18
11-03-2008, 01:05 PM
crazy trade. JR Smith is gone to get much much better as will Carmello. AI will help Detroit score some points, but should hurt the production of Rip and Prince

IndiansFan337
11-03-2008, 01:09 PM
Denver just got a lot better. Now they can start JR Smith alongside Billups without being extremely undersized.

Detroit just sped up their rebuilding process. Sheed & AI are F/A's after this year with contracts worth in excess of $30 million.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Would be an amazing trade for Denver. Billups would be a great leader for them, and fits in with their new defensive mindset.

I really don't understand it from Detroit's standpoint. If this team needs anything to get back to the finals, it's a center IMO. Trading for Iverson is just going to take away chemistry in the back court, and potentially reduce Rip Hamilton's production.

SouljahPhil...
11-03-2008, 01:10 PM
nice trade for the nuggets..imagine if they should have done this before the season started and would have not traded away camby for nothing...
Billups
JR
Melo
Nene
Camby

bench
Mcdyess.,kleiza.,martin...what a nice team...

IndiansFan337
11-03-2008, 01:10 PM
so is this a done deal?

No, not as of now.

ESPN.com link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3679931)

cmstophe
11-03-2008, 01:11 PM
Not a very good deal for Detroit...IMO.

Vidball
11-03-2008, 01:12 PM
I disagree with most. IMO the Nuggets will still struggle to make the playoffs. Det is a better team than they were before the trade. With AI/Rip/Prince/Sheed they can go far.

IndiansFan337
11-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Billups played his college ball in Denver. They've been trying to get him back for years. He has improved so much since his previous stint with the Nuggets.

SouljahPhil...
11-03-2008, 01:14 PM
stuckey will be their pg of the future...Pistons will have lots of capspace this summer..

SouljahPhil...
11-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Both team win in this trade......

Philapsychosis
11-03-2008, 01:15 PM
I want AI to get a ring...........

Still don't think this is going to do it, but I think it's a better shot then he had in Denver

AIMelo=KillaDUO
11-03-2008, 01:16 PM
wat nnumber is Stucky gonna wear?? wat number is chauncey gonna wear? cuz Stucky and AI are number 3 and JR and Chauncey are number 1

IndiansFan337
11-03-2008, 01:17 PM
I disagree with most. IMO the Nuggets will still struggle to make the playoffs. Det is a better team than they were before the trade. With AI/Rip/Prince/Sheed they can go far.

AI is overrated. he doesn't fit their team concept. I don't see how you can make the case for them being better. They're now smaller, weaker on D, lost one of the most "clutch" players in the NBA, and lost their top playmaker. AI likes to dribble. That's not going to get open looks for Prince/Hamilton.

They're going to end up playing Stuckey more & more as the season goes on. They are not getting past the 2nd round this year unless they have another deal in the works.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rip Hamilton shopped now too.

OY!
11-03-2008, 01:18 PM
i like this trade better for the nuggets. unlike AI, Billups is a true PG, a better shooter, a much better defender, and karl can now start J.R. Smith. He's also about 2 years younger then AI i think.

while for the pistions, they get a first shoot guy, a less better defender, and pretty much the only thing he can do better then billups is scoring, but that's really it.

for the first time, good job nugs.

IndiansFan337
11-03-2008, 01:19 PM
wat nnumber is Stucky gonna wear?? wat number is chauncey gonna wear? cuz Stucky and AI are number 3 and JR and Chauncey are number 1

You need a new username now. ;)

AIMelo=KillaDUO
11-03-2008, 01:25 PM
You need a new username now. ;)

I just thought about that to..... :laugh2: but I'm excited to see AI play with Sheed.

OY!
11-03-2008, 01:28 PM
I just thought about that to..... :laugh2: but I'm excited to see AI play with Sheed.

Let's call the AI/Sheed combo the "Foul out duo"! :laugh2:

I'm not kidding with those 2, they are combined to like, 32 TF this season lol.

king4day
11-03-2008, 01:29 PM
This will officially eliminate Denver from any Marbury sweepstakes

AIMelo=KillaDUO
11-03-2008, 01:31 PM
Let's call the AI/Sheed combo the "Foul out duo"! :laugh2:

I'm not kidding with those 2, they are combined to like, 32 TF this season lol.

:laugh: AI doesn't get that many T's tho...

mkool65
11-03-2008, 01:35 PM
In my mind AI has always been a very solid defender. At the very least I think he has been at the top of the league in steals almost every year for quite some time now. I like this deal for Detroit because now after this year we have about 33 million coming off the books so we can start making things better for the future by using that money well. This is also keeping this team as contenders in the east and we can keep this cap space to get one of the big time free agents in 2010. I like this deal a lot.

rrude
11-03-2008, 01:36 PM
ESPN is reporting Iverson going to Pistons for Billups, McDyess, Samb.

One less place for Steph to goto.

6deep
11-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Allen Iverson: Name Comes Up in Trade Talks

RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com Nov 2, 5:53 pm EST


Update: NBA sources are saying the Nuggets have offered Iverson to the Pistons for Denver-native Chauncey Billups, the Boston Globe reports.

Recommendation: The Pistons would let Iverson finish out his contract while making a run in the playoffs, or go with Rodney Stuckey at point guard and trade Iverson’s contract later. A deal like this would likely close Denver’s interest in Jamaal Tinsley.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvOI3KL5g16QrceiMa8Jsp6YPaB4?slug=rotowi re-llenversonameomespin&prov=rotowire&type=fantasy

29$JerZ
11-03-2008, 01:37 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/76872-allen-iverson-traded-to-pistons-espn-reports

hyp21
11-03-2008, 01:40 PM
Pretty good deal, imo. A.I. was bound to get outta Denver sooner or later. Best fit that it's sooner. JR needs to get his shine and most people I'm sure around Denver felt like the A.I./Melo experiment wasn't working out like they planned it to. Billups is a pure point and he can really help J.R./Melo and co. gel and possibly make the team better. However, I wonder how A.I.'s gonna work out at the point. The team is undoubtedly experienced with Rip/Prince/Sheed and all, but I dunno...maybe it'll be best for both teams. A.I. will be bringing a lotta ppg to the Pistons to help Rip

Living Legend
11-03-2008, 01:40 PM
Lol Denver rape job.

AI plays no defense and Billups is best defensive PG in the game.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 01:41 PM
When you consider the cap space being created by this, it doesn't seem so bad for the Pistons. Especially since they've got Stuckey to step in after Iverson leaves (if the plan is to just let his contract run out).

6deep
11-03-2008, 01:42 PM
This is a weird match:

Iverson on Detroit in between stuckey & Rip?

Billups in denver w/carmelo & JR smith?

It's just bizzaro combinations IMO.

dnnug
11-03-2008, 01:44 PM
Billups is home baby!:clap: When will he be in uniform for the nuggets I wonder?

SteveNash
11-03-2008, 01:44 PM
I hate this deal. While the most likely reason for it to happen is looking at the future. Dumars takes a gamble either AI works out in Detroit or they have money to play with in the summer. However I don't really see a great future ahead for Detroit as there are only so many scenarios that I can see playing out.

1. AI in Detroit works they win the championship led by AI. Dumars wants to resign AI leaving almost no money, losing Rasheed and having an Amir/Kwame PF/C while having a third of your cap space tied to an aging player.

2. AI is a failure in Detroit, Dumars lets him go along with Rasheed Wallace trying to make a splash in free agency. However it's not a great free agent markets and the Pistons end up overpaying for a guy that can't be a star (Rashard Lewis).

3. AI fails in Detroit but they resign aging Rasheed while boosting their bench a bit in free agency. Their fate then lies in the development of their young players, Stuckey, Amir, Tayshuan. 3 players that haven't shown they can consistently be good.

4. Detroit decides to rebuild for 2010 but doesn't have an advantage where there are a lot of teams that have space has a down year and still has to overpay to get players to come here.

I think Dumars has way too much faith in his young players just like he had too much faith in Darko. Hopefully there is another Matt Geiger to stop this deal.

29$JerZ
11-03-2008, 01:44 PM
This is a weird match:

Iverson on Detroit in between stuckey & Rip?

Billups in denver w/carmelo & JR smith?

It's just bizzaro combinations IMO.

1 - Pistons want Iverson for a Playoff push.
2 - Billups Plays nice defense and is a leader so he can make Carmelo and Smith work together better then Iverson.

AntiG
11-03-2008, 01:45 PM
Lol Denver rape job.

AI plays no defense and Billups is best defensive PG in the game.

Not to mention McDyess is one of the more reliable big men out there.

MTar786
11-03-2008, 01:47 PM
on paper AI is a lot better than billups n mcdyess

but...... i think this works out for both teams.. not positive about the pistons because he might ruin their chemistry and their whole 'team' thing.. but then again its the first time AI (an offensive force) has a team that has tons of defense to help them.. i see their line-up possibly being like this ONLY cuz AI is not productive as pg

stuckey
ai
rip
prince
wallace

small fast and has D

now for denver. it think this REALLY works out for them.. i always thought ai n melo would fail n it was proven.. now they can start JR smith and he'll thrive on the oppertunity and i think be great.. heres their line-up

billups/carter
smith/ atkins
melo/kleiza (6th man)
martin/ howard
nene/ mcdyess

good team.. defense will be an issue again.. but i think now they'll take the 8th spot.. but the ball is in the blazers court

rrude
11-03-2008, 01:48 PM
All I can guess is Detroit thinks Iverson's got the hunger to push them forward. I am actually surprised about McDyess. In a couple of the playoff games last year, he was the only forward that looked good for them for stretches. But I know they are high on their young guys. Now Maxiell and Amir get the mins.

6deep
11-03-2008, 01:51 PM
detroit will miss billups

DerekRE_3
11-03-2008, 01:53 PM
I like it for Denver. And McDyess is going back to Denver.

6deep
11-03-2008, 01:55 PM
Iverson, Billups expect trade
Posted by Marc J. Spears, Globe Staff November 3, 2008 12:00 PM

According to sources, Nuggets guard Allen Iverson and Detroit guard Chauncey Billups have been telling friends that they expect to be traded for one another today. An NBA source also said that the deal that would bring Billups back to his hometown of Denver is being worked on right now, but not officially completed.

Iverson makes $20 million this year. Billups makes half of that. The deal cannot be executed unless the Pistons involve more players to match Iverson's cap figure. The Pistons might have to include the likes of ex-Nuggets forward Antonio McDyess to make the deal work.

Billups has seemed open-minded to finishing his career back home and is a big fan favorite in Colorado. He has played for the Nuggets previously, appearing in 45 games in 1998-99 and 13 games in 1999-00. Iverson will be a free agent next summer, which would give Detroit major salary cap space after this season and also allow them to give the starting point guard job to young star Rodney Stuckey next season.

Iverson to Pistons?
Posted by Marc J. Spears, Globe Staff November 3, 2008 10:53 AM

A source close to Nuggets guard Allen Iverson is telling people in Denver that he expects to be traded to the Detroit Pistons for Chauncey Billups.

Iverson makes $20 million this year. Billups makes half of that. The deal can not be executed unless the Pistons involve more players to match Iverson's cap figure.

Billups, a Denver native, has seemed open-minded to finishing his career back home. He has played for the Nuggets previously, appearing in 45 games in 1998-99 and 13 games in 1999-00.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/

someone has a scoop.

THE MTL
11-03-2008, 01:58 PM
This is great for Detriot. Dumars does it again!

Draco
11-03-2008, 02:00 PM
Denver part of this trade is irrelevant; they're still not going anywhere. I'm curious what Detroit will do after this season when Iverson's contract expires.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 02:01 PM
There's already a thread for this:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288626


This is great for Detriot. Dumars does it again!

It's not that good for Detroit. Dumars is basically saying 'We're not winning a championship, lets cut some salary'.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 02:02 PM
Denver part of this trade is irrelevant; they're still not going anywhere. I'm curious what Detroit will do after this season when Iverson's contract expires.

I don't think Iverson will fit with the Pistons at all. Seems to me like they're just another team looking to the summer of 2010 now.

6deep
11-03-2008, 02:03 PM
it's all about the future for detroit. one last push? or are the dominoes falling.

SteveNash
11-03-2008, 02:04 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_10887199


The Denver Nuggets have agreed to trade all-star guard Allen Iverson today to the Detroit Pistons for Denver native and fellow guard Chauncey Billups, as well as Antonio McDyess, two sources close to the deal said this morning.

A call has been set up with the NBA office to finalize the trade.

Billups won NBA Finals MVP honors during his tenure with the Pistons. He now returns home to bolster his hometown team's backcourt.

Denver plans to buy out McDyess's contract so it appears he won't actually play for the Nuggets.


So I guess it might be a little bit better for Detroit.

theimortalone
11-03-2008, 02:04 PM
That trade has become official. Its gonna be weird seeing AI in a detroit uni.

mkool65
11-03-2008, 02:07 PM
That is not how I interpret this trade at all. We could have won with the team as it was. Dumars thought we needed a little extra push to get us over the edge. I am like 50-50 on wether this trade will work or not. I just can not decide.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 02:07 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_10887199




So I guess it might be a little bit better for Detroit.

I don't understand why Denver wouldn't want McDyess.

Whether McDyess suits up for Denver or not, it doesn't mean much for Detroit. Unless they're letting him go so that he can resign with Detroit?

Hawkeye15
11-03-2008, 02:10 PM
Good trade both ways. Iverson is a great offensive player, something the Pistons could use, and Billups/McDyess are both reliable, good defenders, something Denver could use.

KH12
11-03-2008, 02:11 PM
Good trade for both teams IMO. Denver gets a PG that plays great defense, Pistons get a huge shake up which was needed plus the $20+M expiring contract.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 02:11 PM
That is not how I interpret this trade at all. We could have won with the team as it was. Dumars thought we needed a little extra push to get us over the edge. I am like 50-50 on wether this trade will work or not. I just can not decide.

I don't see how getting Iverson at the expense of Billups could be seen as a push for a title. Their back court is their biggest strength, IMO. If they needed to add anything, it was a C, so that Rasheed could play the midrange to longrange game, and they'd have someone to draw attention in the middle.

All Iverson does is mess up a perfect backcourt. The only way this could make sense is if they're just trying to drop salary for 2010.

king4day
11-03-2008, 02:19 PM
If McDeyss goes back to Detroit, I hope that gets investigated.
A ton of teams will be interested in him.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 02:23 PM
If McDeyss goes back to Detroit, I hope that gets investigated.
A ton of teams will be interested in him.

McDyess is 34 years old, I would think that he just wants to finish off his career in Detroit. I don't think there's anything the league can say about that.

SteveNash
11-03-2008, 02:24 PM
I don't understand why Denver wouldn't want McDyess.

Whether McDyess suits up for Denver or not, it doesn't mean much for Detroit. Unless they're letting him go so that he can resign with Detroit?

Well McDyess has said he doesn't want to play for another team. So if they release him, he's happy, and the Nuggets will at least get some money back.

thesparky33
11-03-2008, 02:25 PM
I wonder where McDyess will go... if I were him, I'd probably want to go to the team with the best chance of getting a ring... which would probably be Boston IMO, especially since they could use him as well.

LAKERMANIA
11-03-2008, 02:25 PM
It is a good trade for both teams, Denver gets a team leader in Billups who can run the offense and run it through Melo, and Detroit now has AI to play the point who can score more down the stretch..

I like it more for Denver though

ink
11-03-2008, 02:35 PM
I'll be interested to see how much more Karl gets out of his players now that he has Billups instead of AI.

Storch
11-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Good trade.

Iverson is a fast break specialist... Who would run with him in detroit? Theyre a half court team.

SwaggaIke
11-03-2008, 02:46 PM
A.I can be a very solid defender when he has a good shot blocker behind him. I know he had Camby in Denver, but who played defense in Denver? Diawarra? Lol. I still think Rip was emerging as the Pistons go to guy, and all this does is sit Stuckey on the bench even longer but its a good trade for both sides. Joe D gets a solid chance at a run, if it doesn't work out he has plenty of cash to blow this offseason.

SwaggaIke
11-03-2008, 02:48 PM
And Chauncey was easily the worst defender in the starting lineup. I love what he does as a player, but they won't miss him that much defensively. They will miss his big body and decision making when Stuckey isn't in the game though.

JordansBulls
11-03-2008, 02:52 PM
McDyess is the intriguing part here. Where does he go?

JordansBulls
11-03-2008, 02:53 PM
And Chauncey was easily the worst defender in the starting lineup. I love what he does as a player, but they won't miss him that much defensively. They will miss his big body and decision making when Stuckey isn't in the game though.

Chauncey was a much better defender than Rip

KniCks4LiFe
11-03-2008, 02:57 PM
Both teams get better, Detroit gets under the salary cap and sets up a big FA haul for 09' and possibly King James in 2010. :(

marques724
11-03-2008, 02:59 PM
I think this is a good trade for both teams. Denver is now a lock for the playoffs in my opinion. Detroit has the go-to scorer they have been lacking. McDyess is the interesting part if he is bought out. A lot of contenders will be giving him a call.

IndyRealist
11-03-2008, 02:59 PM
I like this trade for both teams.

Denver - Gets the PG they desparately need. Only Denver fans seem to think their PG situation was fine. This moves JR Smith to starting SG, where he was never going to get to as long as AI was on the team. Whether you like their approach or not, they are retooling their team on the fly to try to compete THIS year. I think they're doing a fine job. At least they're not afraid to make big moves and spend a little money.

Detriot - They're clearing cap space. AI + Rasheed Wallace = $31M less in salary next year. And if you look at it long term, Billups and McDyess are owed $60M over 4 years, AI's owed $20M for one year. If you need to retool your team, this is the way to do it. If AI works out, great. They can sign him for $10M/year for two years. If he doesn't, you're building around Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, Maxiell, and $20M in cap space for free agents. In two years, Hamilton comes off the books and you're at $31M under the cap, plus your young talent you've been hoarding on the bench. Not a bad situation to be in.

Joshtd1
11-03-2008, 03:00 PM
I like this trade for both teams.

Pistons- It finally gives them a true #1 option, and he will be able to help them out when they get into scoring slumps like they are known to.

Nuggets- It gives them a true PG with size, and will allow JR Smith to finally start. Also it will mean that they wont have to have Anthony Carter always guarding the teams opposing SG's who are usually 6 inches taller or so since AI was that bad on D. Also I see Billups really helping Melo out and will allow him to be the man. Plus Mcdyess is a solid backup.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Detriot - They're clearing cap space. AI + Rasheed Wallace = $31M less in salary next year. And if you look at it long term, Billups and McDyess are owed $60M over 4 years, AI's owed $20M for one year. If you need to retool your team, this is the way to do it. If AI works out, great. They can sign him for $10M/year for two years. If he doesn't, you're building around Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, Maxiell, and $20M in cap space for free agents. In two years, Hamilton comes off the books and you're at $31M under the cap, plus your young talent you've been hoarding on the bench. Not a bad situation to be in.

Agreed. I can't see how anyone would think Iverson makes Detroit a better team. They've gotten to the Conference Finals every year, and won a championship with defense and chemistry. They're basically trading that for some highlights. This just looks like Detroit rebuilding and looking to 2010 to me.

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 03:07 PM
I
Only Denver fans seem to think their PG situation was fine.

HAHAHA...What Denver fans has thought that?????? Denver fans would've rather had A.I. and Billups on the same team, which was bound to NEVER HAPPEN.....But I don't know no denver fans who viewed our PG situation as fine...I guarantee if you look at all of NUGGEST fans posts in the forum, you would see that we emphasized gettin another PG, because Anthony Carter is a backup who was startin for us!!!!! All Nuggets needed was a PG, to go along with A.I.

Nuggets fans are takin this trade as is.....As I said on the first page of this thread, it will be interesting to start J.R., and hopefully his startin role will fuel what it takes for him to prove to critics that he will be an all star in this game.

But nahh, you're wrong homey....NO Denver fan was fine with the PG situation!! We aren't dumb.

SwaggaIke
11-03-2008, 03:09 PM
Chauncey was a much better defender than Rip

That statement is COMPLETELY false. Rip is the second best defender in the starting lineup after Tayshaun EASILY. Chancey doesn't even have enough speed on the perimeter to keep up w/ the faster guards. Rip locks up on the routine basis, Chauncey pulls a hammy.

KniCks4LiFe
11-03-2008, 03:11 PM
This just looks like Detroit rebuilding and looking to 2010 to me.

And a damn good one at that. Dude Billup's salary extends for 3 yrs. the Pistons waived it off, they get A.I. and can pawn him off by the deadline or let him expire. In 2009 thier salary will be at 34 million, can you imagine the FA haul Joe Dumars will go after in the next 2 yrs. Not just a good rebuilding move but a damn smart one because Stuckey is showing he can play in the NBA.

North Yorker
11-03-2008, 03:13 PM
That statement is COMPLETELY false. Rip is the second best defender in the starting lineup after Tayshaun EASILY. Chancey doesn't even have enough speed on the perimeter to keep up w/ the faster guards. Rip locks up on the routine basis, Chauncey pulls a hammy.

Billups is one of the best defensive PG's in the league.

Chronz
11-03-2008, 03:13 PM
Chauncey was a much better defender than Rip

Its hard to say one was clearly better than the other when they each masked eachothers weakness (Chauncey footspeed, Rip physicality) they often just cross matched eachothers players. I think RIP will suffer defensively without Billups and the Pistons as a unit will take a hit but they still have a buttload of great defenders on that team.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 03:15 PM
And a damn good one at that. Dude Billup's salary extends for 3 yrs. the Pistons waived it off, they get A.I. and can pawn him off by the deadline or let him expire. In 2009 thier salary will be at 34 million, can you imagine the FA haul Joe Dumars will go after in the next 2 yrs. Not just a good rebuilding move but a damn smart one because Stuckey is showing he can play in the NBA.

I don't disagree that it's a great way to get under the cap. I just don't understand how people can say that Iverson makes the Pistons a better team right now.

Lakersfan2483
11-03-2008, 03:18 PM
Source: Boston (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2008/11/02/shaq_isnt_fading_away/?page=3)




I think the Pistons need to do something like this. I don't think they can win it all with the same squad anymore.

PG Iverson
SG Hamilton
SF Prince
PF Wallace
C McDyess


I'm just not sure what else the Pistons would have to give up to make this work.

The Pistons traded both Mcdyess and Billups for Iverson. So, the lineup will look like this:

Iverson/Stuckey
Hamilton
Prince
Maxiell
Wallace

I think the balance of power may swing out east, that is a huge signing for Detroit, especially if Iverson provides more scoring during the playoffs. Come playoff time, this will be a tough team to beat.

I like the trade for Denver also, they needed a true point guard. Billups will provide stability in the backcourt and add leadership to the team. Melo will be the "clear" no. 1 option again, the deal makes sense for both teams.

Epic89
11-03-2008, 03:18 PM
Pistons are still good as ever. Iverson plays PG well, makes what was already the best backcourt in the East even better.

Hunger is a powerful thing; if AI wants a ring, he's got a great chance.

Chauncey, thanks for everything. My favorite Piston of all time. Once a Piston, always a Piston.

SwaggaIke
11-03-2008, 03:20 PM
Billups is one of the best defensive PG's in the league.

Out of a weak crop? Who are the GREAT defensive PG's of the NBA? Chris Paul who gambles for multiple steals per game? Royal Ivey who doesn't even see enough floor time to show off his defensive capabilities? Deron Williams? There isn't even a great crop of defensive point guards in the day in age...so it doesn't even matter. Chauncey is a HEADY defender, but he is not great by any stretch of the imagination. His feet are slow and he tends to defend w/ his hands. Rip can get inside of any 2 guard in the league and hassle them w/ full court pressure. Chauncey can't do that. Rip does lack the bulk but that doesn't mean he isn't wirey strong. Rip has been a better on ball defender than Chauncey for the past 2 seasons. Anybody who watches Piston basketball regularly knows this.

KniCks4LiFe
11-03-2008, 03:22 PM
I don't disagree that it's a great way to get under the cap. I just don't understand how people can say that Iverson makes the Pistons a better team right now.

Eastern Conference is a bit weak. A.I. adds speed and a go to guy almost like an upgrade offensively, remember A.I. took a Larry Brown coached team w/ no offensive options other than KVH to the NBA Finals it's not like he can't do it again. It really doesn't matter they'll waive him or trade him. Right now Rodney Stuckey is the future PG of Detroit and his game has been compared to DWade either way salary cap fixed and Dumars can go after Boozer, or DWade in a few yrs., or LeBron or Bosh or both.

Lakersfan2483
11-03-2008, 03:24 PM
I like this trade for both teams.

Pistons- It finally gives them a true #1 option, and he will be able to help them out when they get into scoring slumps like they are known to.

Nuggets- It gives them a true PG with size, and will allow JR Smith to finally start. Also it will mean that they wont have to have Anthony Carter always guarding the teams opposing SG's who are usually 6 inches taller or so since AI was that bad on D. Also I see Billups really helping Melo out and will allow him to be the man. Plus Mcdyess is a solid backup.

I agree with everything you said, good post. Both teams will benefit from the trade.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Eastern Conference is a bit weak. A.I. adds speed and a go to guy almost like an upgrade offensively, remember A.I. took a Larry Brown coached team w/ no offensive options other than KVH to the NBA Finals it's not like he can't do it again. It really doesn't matter they'll waive him or trade him. Right now Rodney Stuckey is the future PG of Detroit and his game has been compared to DWade either way salary cap fixed and Dumars can go after Boozer, or DWade in a few yrs., or LeBron or Bosh or both.

They already had speed and a go to guy, called Rip Hamilton. Now, with AI running the point, what happens is you lose chemistry, and defense. On the court, it's going to be a lateral move, at best. Off the court, the lost salary is going to be great, but it's going to be a slow season for the Pistons now.

Nexus
11-03-2008, 03:32 PM
Would be an amazing trade for Denver. Billups would be a great leader for them, and fits in with their new defensive mindset.

I really don't understand it from Detroit's standpoint. If this team needs anything to get back to the finals, it's a center IMO. Trading for Iverson is just going to take away chemistry in the back court, and potentially reduce Rip Hamilton's production.

I think everyone's production will suffer in some facet with the true point guard heading for Denver. Barring stellar production from the youngsters, I still don't see Detroit as a contender.

North Yorker
11-03-2008, 03:38 PM
Out of a weak crop? Who are the GREAT defensive PG's of the NBA? Chris Paul who gambles for multiple steals per game? Royal Ivey who doesn't even see enough floor time to show off his defensive capabilities? Deron Williams? There isn't even a great crop of defensive point guards in the day in age...so it doesn't even matter. Chauncey is a HEADY defender, but he is not great by any stretch of the imagination. His feet are slow and he tends to defend w/ his hands. Rip can get inside of any 2 guard in the league and hassle them w/ full court pressure. Chauncey can't do that. Rip does lack the bulk but that doesn't mean he isn't wirey strong. Rip has been a better on ball defender than Chauncey for the past 2 seasons. Anybody who watches Piston basketball regularly knows this.

Yes out of a weak crop. There arent too many good defensive pgs in the league and from the times i've watched him he's been pretty good. Just my opinion.

DET UNIT
11-03-2008, 03:38 PM
At first I was NO now I like it alot$$$$ AI will drive to the hoop we needed that and that will open up my boy rip for u know 3333333

king4day
11-03-2008, 03:39 PM
Eastern Conference is a bit weak. A.I. adds speed and a go to guy almost like an upgrade offensively, remember A.I. took a Larry Brown coached team w/ no offensive options other than KVH to the NBA Finals it's not like he can't do it again. It really doesn't matter they'll waive him or trade him. Right now Rodney Stuckey is the future PG of Detroit and his game has been compared to DWade either way salary cap fixed and Dumars can go after Boozer, or DWade in a few yrs., or LeBron or Bosh or both.

I thought Van Horn came up with the Nets. Is it another KVH ur talkin about?

mkool65
11-03-2008, 03:43 PM
Having Rip, Stuckey and AI on the court on the same time gives us one of the fastest teams in the league, let alone when you throw in the times where we have Maxiell and Amir in the post. Should be fun to watch at the very least.

yaowowrocket11
11-03-2008, 03:54 PM
I think this is a winning trade for both parties involved. Detroit needed a shakeup, since they haven't been improving the past 3+ years. Denver needed to concentrate on defense and reliability, and they got that with Billups and McDyess. A very even deal if you ask me. Great work by the GMs.

LAKERS 24/7
11-03-2008, 03:59 PM
It will take a long time for me to get used to seeing someone else leading this team out there. The big question is what number will AI wear?

Yea, because thats the biggest question mark at this point :rolleyes:

Gunzito22
11-03-2008, 04:09 PM
I wonder where McDyess will go... if I were him, I'd probably want to go to the team with the best chance of getting a ring... which would probably be Boston IMO, especially since they could use him as well.

this is the most interesting wrinkle about this trade to me... Mcdyess says he only wanted to play in Denver... did he say this just to trick denver into buying him out? if so, then will he re-sign in Detriot? does he now try and sign in LAL/BOS/maybe CLE? Will he resign in Detriot, and if so does Detriot become the real contender only losing Billups in the deal????

EXTREMELY intriguing, this could be the trade that shakes out the league in 08-09...

petski
11-03-2008, 04:16 PM
will stuckey give up his number for A.I.? that is the question the answer needs to know.

charlsdq7
11-03-2008, 04:18 PM
AI will prolly change his #..

lavis
11-03-2008, 04:20 PM
So they'll use the rotation of Iverson, Rip and Stuckey at the 1 and 2?

$KnicksAndKobe$
11-03-2008, 04:22 PM
MaXiel should get more minutes now ... watch out

bostncelts34
11-03-2008, 04:23 PM
love the trade for both teams.

Although i think Denver could of got more for Iverson than they did.

But now detroit has that go to scorer to take over games, and denver has an expierenced pg.

bagwell368
11-03-2008, 04:28 PM
AI is a cancer, and an aging one. You've taken a great D team, and thrown in a top notch scorer, but removed the PG. Chemistry would seem to be a big question. When AI's contract is up however, they will have a max slot for whomever is available.

Denver has gained a wise PG, and Melo doesn't have to compete with AI, but they don't figure to be that much better.

Jay22Redd
11-03-2008, 04:38 PM
i think its a pretty good trade for both teams

Zefflin
11-03-2008, 04:41 PM
As do I.

ackar
11-03-2008, 04:43 PM
so how would Iverson being in Detroit effect his fantasy value?


See I have a real issue with that. Screw Fant. worse thing to happens to sports but that is another rant entirely.

NYMetros
11-03-2008, 04:43 PM
As a Pistons fan, I hate to see Billups go. He meant so much to our team. Great leader, shooter, passer, great defense. But Iverson is the better player, so it was the right decision for us. Iverson makes everyone around him better because he attracts double and triple teams, I can't wait to see him out there on the court. It should be exciting.

GCOOKIE7
11-03-2008, 04:56 PM
pesonally I like the move becuase that means Neither Billups, MAC D, or Iverson will be in the starting lineup in wednesdays game when the Raps RAPE the Pistons BUM

TheFuture6
11-03-2008, 05:14 PM
Amazing trade, I'm so excited.

pebloemer
11-03-2008, 05:17 PM
pesonally I like the move becuase that means Neither Billups, MAC D, or Iverson will be in the starting lineup in wednesdays game when the Raps RAPE the Pistons BUM

Little overconfident? Pistons are still a great team without Billups and I have heard nowhere that AI won't be ready for Wednesday. But unless you've heard differently. . .

_Sn1P3r_
11-03-2008, 05:17 PM
I think that trade is good for both teams.

goku
11-03-2008, 05:18 PM
how will this work because AI is not really a pg and rip is starting there

Catfish1314
11-03-2008, 05:25 PM
Had the Nuggets held onto Camby, this team would be as formidable as most in the West.

C-Camby
PF-Martin
SF-Anthony
SG-Smith
PG-Billups

Bigger, stronger, better defense, etc. If Nene can fulfill their expectations, they've got a shot to be a pretty high seed in the West. Both teams improve a little off this deal, but only in the short term.

Catfish1314
11-03-2008, 05:28 PM
For Detroit, this trade eliminates the only real advantage they had over the Celtics and that's Billups over Rondo. Iverson can't post up like Chauncey can, so that matchup becomes much easier for the Celtics.

bleedprple&gold
11-03-2008, 05:28 PM
I wonder if the Pistons will go small and start Stuckey at PG, AI at SG, with Rip and Prince at the forward spots.

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 05:31 PM
Had the Nuggets held onto Camby, this team would be as formidable as most in the West.

C-Camby
PF-Martin
SF-Anthony
SG-Smith
PG-Billups

Bigger, stronger, better defense, etc. If Nene can fulfill their expectations, they've got a shot to be a pretty high seed in the West. Both teams improve a little off this deal, but only in the short term.



I'll repeat for the 99999999999999999th time.....NENE IS BETTER THEN CAMBY....All NENE needs to do is stay healthy...Camby is hurt right now...What good would he be????? Ya dig?

THE_FLASH_21
11-03-2008, 05:38 PM
Pistons = Celtics ......

THE_FLASH_21
11-03-2008, 05:39 PM
I'll repeat for the 99999999999999999th time.....NENE IS BETTER THEN CAMBY....All NENE needs to do is stay healthy...Camby is hurt right now...What good would he be????? Ya dig?

Nene can't play "D" like Camby... or grab 15 rebs when ever we wants to!

Nighthawk
11-03-2008, 05:45 PM
Pistons = Celtics ......

?????

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 05:45 PM
Nene can't play "D" like Camby... or grab 15 rebs when ever we wants to!



What you mean he can't playb D like Camby????All Camby did was BLOCK....Blocking is not all defense consists of....NENE is a lot more physical, and he isn;t as fragile...Whenever Camby went against a physical Center, he was absolutely uselesss.....Denvers DEFENSE has improved this season, due to the fact we got NENE out there playin aggresive......The only reason Camby was even gettin as much rebounds, was because NENE was out all last season......

You're right...NENE cant play D like Camby, because he's play more well rounded D....He takes charges, he has fast hands that can steal balls, and he plays physical against other physical CENTERs.

Big Quett
11-03-2008, 05:48 PM
For Detroit, this trade eliminates the only real advantage they had over the Celtics and that's Billups over Rondo. Iverson can't post up like Chauncey can, so that matchup becomes much easier for the Celtics.

Yeah bucause guarding a career 27 point a game scorer and maybe the best scroer under 6 feet in history is easier. Im pretty sure the Celts or any other team in the league would rather guard Billups than IVO
Just because he doesn't post doesnt mean its an easier matchup.



I'll repeat for the 99999999999999999th time.....NENE IS BETTER THEN CAMBY....All NENE needs to do is stay healthy...Camby is hurt right now...What good would he be????? Ya dig?

Yeah thats asking alot considering he hasnt done that in 2 years.

Catfish1314
11-03-2008, 05:58 PM
I'll repeat for the 99999999999999999th time.....NENE IS BETTER THEN CAMBY....All NENE needs to do is stay healthy...Camby is hurt right now...What good would he be????? Ya dig?

That remains to be seen. I'll wait until I see Nene put up 9, 13, and 3 for a season. Nene is bigger, younger and stronger and more fit to play in the post, sure. But he hasn't been as productive as Camby yet.


Yeah bucause guarding a career 27 point a game scorer and maybe the best scroer under 6 feet in history is easier. Im pretty sure the Celts or any other team in the league would rather guard Billups than IVO

Rondo has the lateral quickness to defend Iverson well. But he never had the strength to defend Chauncey when he would post him up. That happened on several occassions during the regular season and the playoffs.

JordansBulls
11-03-2008, 05:59 PM
For Detroit, this trade eliminates the only real advantage they had over the Celtics and that's Billups over Rondo. Iverson can't post up like Chauncey can, so that matchup becomes much easier for the Celtics.

Great Point. But I also think it was hard for Detroit to score on Boston and Iverson makes it a little easier in that regard.

NFLNBA
11-03-2008, 06:01 PM
Okay lets look at these 2 players and these 2 teams...........

Denver has 1 of the best offenses in the league but 1 of the worst defenses

Pistons pretty much vise-versa

A.I Great Speed and quickness possibly the best scoring PG in NBA, bad defense except 1 of best in stealing. Better suited for run and gun offense

Billups Better 3 pt shooter, better passing pg, can post smaller pg, and a little better D. Better suited for half court offense but can run and gun a little.

A.I to the pistons.......Does the Pistons play more fast tempo now? Do you start Stucky so A.I can play SG? I dont like this trade for the Pistons, they got a guy who can burn you every now and then but isnt the leader Billups was, i think this really changes there style of play. But playing in the East will have the Pistons in the Playoffs where anything can happen.

Billups to the Nuggets......It seems as the the Nuggets want to slow it down and be more of a Defense team. Billups is a better passer and leader and now they wont be small at SG. A.I finds himself at the FT line alot and can beat anyone off the dribble so they will miss is Offense and Stealing. I like this trade for the Nuggets! They wont score as many points as they used to being out of control but they will have a pretty good half court offense and a better defense and some-one to be the vocal leader.
BUT they play in the west and i this doesnt make them better then the Lakers,Hornets,Spurs,Suns,Rockets,Jazz,Mavs so they will be fighting for the 8th or 7th seed.

so all in all i think nothing really changes......or i will say we will have to see what pg wioll adapt to his new team better!

GspLAL
11-03-2008, 06:01 PM
Not sure if anyone mentioned this but on ESPN they just said the Pistons gave McDyess also.

dnnug
11-03-2008, 06:02 PM
That remains to be seen. I'll wait until I see Nene put up 9, 13, and 3 for a season. Nene is bigger, younger and stronger and more fit to play in the post, sure. But he hasn't been as productive as Camby yet.

thats the key word.

Catfish1314
11-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Great Point. But I also think it was hard for Detroit to score on Boston and Iverson makes it a little easier in that regard.

True. Another good point. Regardless of his age, AI can still break down a defense with the best of them, so it does help Detroit in that regard. I think Rondo could stick with him pretty well though.

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 06:06 PM
That remains to be seen. I'll wait until I see Nene put up 9, 13, and 3 for a season. Nene is bigger, younger and stronger and more fit to play in the post, sure. But he hasn't been as productive as Camby yet.



Well then you get my point!!!!...IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, if the nuggets were better with or without CAMBY..So people should stop assuming...NENE gets it done effectively on offense, and does more on defense then just block.

dnnug
11-03-2008, 06:14 PM
Im going to say the same thing I said on another forum about this trade.

The nuggets have the talent to be a top contender in this league. With Melo, J.R,Nene,K-mart and now Billups. With AI they really didn't have a ball distributer to find that open man when someone is double guarding melo, now with Billups not only do they have that distributer but they also have someone that can spread the court along with Jr and Melo.

Last seasons teams basically double, trippled and I actually saw a box and one defense used against them because they knew AI can't consistantly hit the jumper and once the ball got into Melo's hands they would jump on him like kids fighting for candy thats fallen out of a pin'ata(sorry im a bad speller). That not going to happen now with Billups helping him out. If teams do that he'll simply pass the ball to Billups and he'll find the open man.

Sure you are saying that Billups won't make the nugs a contender but he makes the whole team better. And when a gets better who knows what will happen.

MiamiHeat
11-03-2008, 06:15 PM
coolcool Nuggets and Pistons are making trades
Miami is our turn :D

Westbrook36
11-03-2008, 06:16 PM
Actually like it for Det.

SensandRaps
11-03-2008, 06:23 PM
this imo is a good deal for the nuggets they get help inside and a relible pg and this helps smiths development. but this is good for the pistons cuz they get to give time to stuckey to develop.

jacquewho?
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
In financial terms, Detroit wins this...easily. Please realize that they could have over 45M in expirings this offseason...I'm not too sure about the FA class, but that could easily get you some top notch FA's.

Talent wise i think Detroit wins it barely. But this kinda is bad for Stuckey. Good news for Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson though. Denver fills a need and gets a true PG. It could go either way. But IMO, Detroit wins.

laker1000
11-03-2008, 06:28 PM
Nice deal for both teams.

mgthompson
11-03-2008, 06:33 PM
Good trade for Pistons cause I believe that they are making a way for Stuckey, so they will no longer need Billups.

I like it for the Nuggets because we no longer will have to start Carter and Billups can make JR and Melo better.

goku
11-03-2008, 06:38 PM
isnt ai a sg so how will he play the pg

_Sn1P3r_
11-03-2008, 06:40 PM
He'll work it out. Rip will play the SG. ^

ShaunRiching9
11-03-2008, 06:45 PM
Wow this is a surprise i had heard nothing about this well i heard Iverson rumors btu i did not see billups going any where.....wow

SteveNash
11-03-2008, 06:49 PM
isnt ai a sg so how will he play the pg

Prince will probably run the point some, AI and Stuckey should get some minutes together.

Tai_chi_bbc
11-03-2008, 07:08 PM
good for both teams IMO

Rockets Fanatic
11-03-2008, 07:19 PM
I dont see why The Pistons just cant go small

PG: Stuckey
SG: AI
SF: Rip
PF: Tay
C: Rasheed

They could run and play pretty good D. Stuckey would flourish in this lineup. AI is a SG. Tayshaun has the length and quickness to play the PF. Rasheed is good at C. I like Rip at the SF cuz he would be an offensive mismatch for a SF or possibly a PF sometimes and he plays good enough D that he could guard sufficiently. If this doesnt work they can just do

PG: AI
SG: Rip
SF: Tay
PF: Maxiell
C: Rasheed

jgonboricua
11-03-2008, 07:37 PM
if i were the pistons i would run a lineup of
Stuckey
Ai/Rip
Prince
Maxiel
Wallace

SteveNash
11-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Probably has something to due with Tayshaun being stick thin.

I still remember Game 7 of the 05 Finals. Our bigs got in foul trouble during the second half, Brown decided to put Tayshaun on Duncan, he just killed him and the Spurs won the championship.

Also, Amir Johnson has been the starter this season and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

superkegger
11-03-2008, 07:46 PM
I like the deal for the nuggets. I think chauncey and melo could be stellar together, and if JR smith can be consistent, wow. Plus their d just got better. Not sure how i feel about it for the pistons....it could be good, but it seems like it could be a play for somethign more by getting a 20 mil expiring...

greg_ory_2005
11-03-2008, 07:46 PM
Wow, just found out about this! Big news!! I kinda like it more for the Pistons.

THE_FLASH_21
11-03-2008, 08:01 PM
What you mean he can't playb D like Camby????All Camby did was BLOCK....Blocking is not all defense consists of....NENE is a lot more physical, and he isn;t as fragile...Whenever Camby went against a physical Center, he was absolutely uselesss.....Denvers DEFENSE has improved this season, due to the fact we got NENE out there playin aggresive......The only reason Camby was even gettin as much rebounds, was because NENE was out all last season......

You're right...NENE cant play D like Camby, because he's play more well rounded D....He takes charges, he has fast hands that can steal balls, and he plays physical against other physical CENTERs.


I'll give u that Nene is much bulkier, and more athletic... But a center is considered a good defender if he can block shots.. a Guard is consisdered a good defender if he can steal the ball.... Camby is not a Guard...

THE_FLASH_21
11-03-2008, 08:03 PM
?????

No way the the Celtics run away with the east... Detroit always had great defense... Now let's see what Rondo can do against A.I .... I'm saying the Celtics are equal to the Pistons....

superkegger
11-03-2008, 08:06 PM
I'll give u that Nene is much bulkier, and more athletic... But a center is considered a good defender if he can block shots.. a Guard is consisdered a good defender if he can steal the ball.... Camby is not a Guard...

that might be what a novice would consider a good defender, but by those standards, bruce bowen and raja bell are not good defenders, when we all know they are.

DreamShaker
11-03-2008, 08:23 PM
Huge risk....but it will be fun to watch.....Billups will be goodv for Melo...

number1nykfan25
11-03-2008, 08:25 PM
there both leaving these teams next year though right? this is just a one year thing for both right? I like the deal for Detroit and Denver i kinda feel for billups though its just like thanks for what you've done don't let the door hit you on the way out. apparently being a aging point guard doesn't get you very far in the NBA these days.

_Sn1P3r_
11-03-2008, 08:27 PM
Huge risk....but it will be fun to watch.....Billups will be goodv for Melo...

Agreed. Wouldn't be surprised if Melo's PPG increases since Billups doesn't really need to take shots.

Swoosh
11-03-2008, 08:28 PM
I can't tell you guys how happy I am right now. I came home from and extremely loooong day of work to hear that they finally got A.I. here....man o man.

I actually like both deals.

cmellofan15
11-03-2008, 08:30 PM
:clap:

Heard about it earlier, but didn't get to post.

Great Move!!!

Lakers4ItAll
11-03-2008, 08:37 PM
AI is a bad fit for any team IMO, he is prolly the best player ever for his size but I just don't think he will ever lead a team to a championship.

I think this is a bad trade for both teams

pippsux
11-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Wierd trade. Nuggets don't seem to be interested in competing anymore. First they trade Camby for nothing and then the trade Iverson in a contract year. Billups is a good fit for the nuggets, he can run the show but will struggle with having to guard the best in the west more than once a year.

Iverson in Detroit is not a good fit. Iverson is a "ball stopping" "coach killer". I don't think it works, but hey I might be wrong. It will be fun to watch. This NBA SEASON is turning out to be a great season. Lot of great basketball in the near future.

JayW_1023
11-03-2008, 08:42 PM
The Nuggets get the better end of the deal...they have a legit two way player and a veteran who plays unselfish. It will also allow JR Smith to slide at big guard and get more touches.

The Pistons will totally miss Chauncey if this deal goes down...how will A.I. co-exist with Rip Hamilton? Will he play point or shooting guard...and how will it affect Stuckey, who has been making strides. He will have less playing time if AI gets major minutes.

I think Chauncey can help the Nuggets more than Iverson can help the Pistons. I'm really sceptic about this deal and if I were Dumars I wouldn't do this deal. A player like Chauncey is hard to find, an unselfish clutch scorer, playmaker and defender on the perimeter...who else will guard the Kobes, Manu's, McGrady's, JJ's and Allens? It's not like they can get 30 something minutes out of Lindsey Hunter. Maybe Stuckey can be that guy but he is largely unproven as a reliable wing defender.

JayW_1023
11-03-2008, 08:47 PM
Of course they have Prince as a good wing defender...but still, Chauncey diminished the chance of the Pistons getting the bad end of defensive mismatches because of his size and strength. Iverson will not improve a team whose foundation is defense.

It will give Pistons fans some flashbacks from them old Isiah days though lol.

dre1990
11-03-2008, 09:03 PM
if i were joey dumars i wouldnt have done it, but who knows what miight happen. Denver just struck gold

dre1990
11-03-2008, 09:04 PM
WHat if they kept Marcus Camby

Wilson
11-03-2008, 09:05 PM
Wierd trade. Nuggets don't seem to be interested in competing anymore. First they trade Camby for nothing and then the trade Iverson in a contract year. Billups is a good fit for the nuggets, he can run the show but will struggle with having to guard the best in the west more than once a year.

I don't understand how you can say that. Their biggest weaknesses are their PGs, and defense. How could trading for a very good, defensive PG be a bad thing? It's obvious Iverson wasn't working for them, so they shipped him out for a great player who fills a need.

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-03-2008, 09:16 PM
WHat if they kept Marcus Camby

Then we would be in the same position, because Camby is hurt.

wwwhat
11-03-2008, 09:26 PM
Hmm, what could Detroit's line-up be?

Will they go:
Iverson
Hamilton
Prince
A. Johnson
Wallace

IMO, they should see if they can trade for a point-forward (Hedo for Prince? I think Prince is far better, but Hedo may be better in this situation) so they can play Iverson/Hamilton in the backcourt.

Or will they start Stuckey at the point, Iverson at the 2 and then trade Hamilton for young talent (if they can find a young C for him?) or just bring him off as a 6th man.

Or can they go for a rather ballsy small line-up of
Stuckey
Iverson
Hamilton
Prince
Wallace

I really have no clue what they accomplished with this trade other than making cap space for this coming off-season. They need to make another deal, IMO.

Wilson
11-03-2008, 09:33 PM
Hmm, what could Detroit's line-up be?

Will they go:
Iverson
Hamilton
Prince
A. Johnson
Wallace

IMO, they should see if they can trade for a point-forward (Hedo for Prince? I think Prince is far better, but Hedo may be better in this situation) so they can play Iverson/Hamilton in the backcourt.

Or will they start Stuckey at the point, Iverson at the 2 and then trade Hamilton for young talent (if they can find a young C for him?) or just bring him off as a 6th man.

Or can they go for a rather ballsy small line-up of
Stuckey
Iverson
Hamilton
Prince
Wallace

I really have no clue what they accomplished with this trade other than making cap space for this coming off-season. They need to make another deal, IMO.

That's exactly it, IMO.

JordansBulls
11-03-2008, 09:41 PM
if i were joey dumars i wouldnt have done it, but who knows what miight happen. Denver just struck gold

The Pistons had to do something. They can't get past the conference finals anymore.

JayW_1023
11-03-2008, 09:41 PM
I think Denver will be better because now Smith can finally step in as a starter. Detroit will give up some defense and add some offense.

Looks like AI will be Isiahs heir apparent as the speedy go to guy for Detroit. It'll be interesting how he'll fit in with an established, balanced core. This is without a doubt the most talent he has ever had around him and it'll be very intriguing to see how it'll affect his game. He's going to have to share the ball alot more.

dgo24
11-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Should help both teams.

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 09:53 PM
Poll added.

I didn't include any "stays the same" answers just to make the results clearer... so go with what you're leaning towards, even if it's really close.

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 09:54 PM
Hmm, what could Detroit's line-up be?

They'll have a lot of different lineups that all include AI, because he'll still play 40+ minutes.

DerekRE_3
11-03-2008, 10:15 PM
I like it for both teams. The Nuggets get a real point guard and open things up for JR Smith, who could explode this year with Billups running the team. The Pistons, with AI and Rasheed's expiring contracts they will have almost 35 million coming off the books. Not only that, they can still win now. It will be interesting to see how AI meshes with Prince, Rasheed, and Hamilton.

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 10:16 PM
WHat if they kept Marcus Camby

I'm not going to go back and read all 12 pages of this thread, but reading the first few I saw a lot of comments like this.

What people need to understand is that the Camby salary dump was a prerequisite to this deal getting done. Denver's entire financial situation hinged on AI's expiring $21 million contract coming off the books and finally moving them towards getting out from under being buried by all their huge contracts.

It's also why they might buy out McDyess, and why they didn't extend Linas Kleiza for around the MLE. I think the numbers speak for themselves, if you look at the guaranteed salary pictures in comparison, going into next season and beyond (and keep in mind that the luxury tax is $71.15 million):


With Camby and Dyess
2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
Kenyon Martin 14431818 15613636 16545455
Carmelo Anthony 14410581 15779913 17149244 18518575
Nene 9680000 10520000 11360000 11600000
JR Smith 5000000 5500000 6000000
Steven Hunter 3862600 3696000
Renaldo Balkman 1369920 2112417
Sonny Weems 442114 736420 854389
Marcus Camby 10000000 9650000
C. Billups 11050000 12100000 13150000 14200000
Antonio McDyess 6500000 6836000
Total 76747033 82544386 65059088 44318575


Without Camby and Dyess
2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
Kenyon Martin 14431818 15613636 16545455
Carmelo Anthony 14410581 15779913 17149244 18518575
Nene 9680000 10520000 11360000 11600000
JR Smith 5000000 5500000 6000000
Steven Hunter 3862600 3696000
Renaldo Balkman 1369920 2112417
Sonny Weems 442114 736420 854389
C. Billups 11050000 12100000 13150000 14200000
Total 60247033 66058386 65059088 44318575

ink
11-03-2008, 10:20 PM
I like the Nuggets' chances better now. Good deal.

Lakers4ItAll
11-03-2008, 10:30 PM
I thought DEN was trying to move Melo since he doesn't play D

DenButsu
11-03-2008, 11:03 PM
I thought DEN was trying to move Melo since he doesn't play D

More like half the teams in the league were drooling over the prospect of prying him away from us for a steal due to a disappointing playoff series.

superkegger
11-03-2008, 11:15 PM
Of course they have Prince as a good wing defender...but still, Chauncey diminished the chance of the Pistons getting the bad end of defensive mismatches because of his size and strength. Iverson will not improve a team whose foundation is defense.

It will give Pistons fans some flashbacks from them old Isiah days though lol.

So winning championships would be bad?

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-03-2008, 11:23 PM
Have not been able to see what everyone is saying about this trade but I like it for both teams. I have always thought that the Nuggets were too small with both A.I. and Anthony Carter in the back court. Now they have one of the bigger teams in the league. Billups and Smith should be a very good back court and put Carter on the bench where he belongs.

The Pistons stay very competitve. And if it does not work out they can dump A.I's salary and Wallaces and have some serious cap money for next year or maybe even 2010.

scrumptiousduck
11-03-2008, 11:38 PM
good move for detroit AI will average 22 points and 8 assists over there

JordansBulls
11-04-2008, 01:15 AM
Why did Denver trade Andre Miller in the 1st place?

SUNDUNDIDIT
11-04-2008, 01:18 AM
Why did Denver trade Andre Miller in the 1st place?

To get A.I.....wE WASN'T doing anything with Andre Miller, so the Nuggets took the risk on gettin A.I. to see if he changed anything.

MTar786
11-04-2008, 01:21 AM
Chauncey was a much better defender than Rip

LoL are u joking?

DenButsu
11-04-2008, 01:24 AM
Why did Denver trade Andre Miller in the 1st place?

Because it was for Allen Iverson.

Even if the gamble didn't pay off like they hoped it would, when you have the chance to get not just a superstar but a legendary player of that caliber, you simply don't pass it up.

lakerboy
11-04-2008, 02:30 AM
Detroit wins IMO.

Billups have two good years left, so does Iverson. But Detroit could start rebuilding next year.

michaellui11
11-04-2008, 03:04 AM
billups=AI
mcdyess=old man who can't walk
both teams get worse
detroit gets older (again)
denver lost their franchise for a reliable pg

Leftcoast_yg
11-04-2008, 03:29 AM
i talked about this deal about two seasons ago wow now it came true not surprised atll it benefits both teams because denver has a legit point guard who is experienced in running the point as a play maker unlike iverson who is a shoot first player, billups aso brings perimeter D and a clutch 3pt shot which the nuggets needed from someone else besides jr, melo is gonna have more working room to drive than when iverson did and not to mention billups can post up and kick out jr or melo

UnWantedTheory
11-04-2008, 04:19 AM
really doesnt make sense for the Pistons IMO...Denver on the other hand had no choice but to shake it up and I feel this deal actually suits them quite fine...

UnWantedTheory
11-04-2008, 04:22 AM
Well other than a possible salary dump.

Chronz
11-04-2008, 07:23 AM
so how would Iverson being in Detroit effect his fantasy value?

Fantasy values are based off of per game stats, AI went from one of the fastest paced teams in the league to one of the slowest ones. That never helps per game averages.

DenButsu
11-04-2008, 07:50 AM
billups=AI
mcdyess=old man who can't walk
both teams get worse
detroit gets older (again)
denver lost their franchise for a reliable pg

Melo is our franchise - and J.R. and Nene - and the thing all three of them precisely needed to thrive was a point guard who can facilitate the offense.

Not only is this huge for Melo, but Denver might just have the #1 and #2 leading MIP candidates in their starting 5. And that's no exaggeration.

Chicagofan911x
11-04-2008, 07:51 AM
interesting and spicy gotta love it

Jamaal60
11-04-2008, 12:13 PM
I have no idea of what Denver is doing. They GAVE away Camby to clear some cap space and now they trade Iverson's expiring 21 million $ contract for long term contracts. What in the world is that ?
Hopefully their backourt has become a threat with Smith joining the starting lineup and Billups who can DEFEND, pass and hit clutch shots. They also get a great bench player with McDyess.

However Detroit is definitely the winner. If the team doesn't do well with A.I. (it will probably happen since Detroit is a defensive team) this summer they will still be 20 million $ under the salary cap. That's enough money to sign a good free agent isn't it ?

The Nuggets got better for this season but will probably look bad in one or two years.
The Pistons will be fine this season and will have enough money this summer to sign someone like Boozer or, if they wait one more year, someone like Lebron, Wade, Bosh, etc... Moreover their team will still look decent, especially after resigning Rip Hamilton.

ramansingh3
11-04-2008, 02:29 PM
The good thing about this deal is that the pistons add another much needed scorer in iverson. Iversons deal is only 1 year so they could let him go if this doesn't work out and maybe pursue James in 2010 from what I heard. For denver this gives them a point guard that they needed and JR Smith some valuable playing time.

BADizzleBoY
11-04-2008, 05:15 PM
*this just in*

iverson will wear the number one and billups will wear number 7.

BADizzleBoY
11-04-2008, 05:19 PM
how bout that, iverson will look weird without his trademark number 3

maybe this is a fresh start for him or something :shrug:

marvILLous
11-04-2008, 05:24 PM
the press conference is on nbatv.

Ryan328
11-04-2008, 05:36 PM
Yea I saw that Iverson will wear #1, but where did you find the Billups info?

BADizzleBoY
11-04-2008, 05:41 PM
go on to nba.com, go to the nba store

once at that page you will see an ad in the mid right hand corner of you rpage, and it says get the new iverson and billups uniforms, and it shows on that ad a number 1 ai uniform and a number 7 billups uniform

hdxstunts1
11-04-2008, 05:41 PM
Denver gets a scoring and assisting PG that has been highly needed so they're better! Detroit gets a ball-hogging guard that is too small and cant shoot well enough to be a Sg but doesnt want to be a PG so i say they got screwed!

BADizzleBoY
11-04-2008, 05:44 PM
meh it will take a little for the newbie pistons coch to figure this whole thing through, but come playoff time this team will be clicking

and not to mention straight up scary

Ryan328
11-04-2008, 05:44 PM
go on to nba.com, go to the nba store

once at that page you will see an ad in the mid right hand corner of you rpage, and it says get the new iverson and billups uniforms, and it shows on that ad a number 1 ai uniform and a number 7 billups uniform

Ahhh ok, found it...thanks

DenButsu
11-04-2008, 11:55 PM
I have no idea of what Denver is doing. ...

The Nuggets got better for this season but will probably look bad in one or two years.

In one or two years we'd have lost both AI and Camby for nothing when their contracts expired. Instead we get a) salary relief immediately (which enable the J.R. signing), b) a $10 million trade exception (which we probably won't use all of now, but will enable us to get a solid - and younger - player who can fill a hole in our roster), and c) not only a good but a fantastic point guard who will facilitate the growth and development of our young, rising star core of Melo, Nene and J.R.

We're better off now, and in the future with this move.

THE_FLASH_21
11-05-2008, 07:42 PM
that might be what a novice would consider a good defender, but by those standards, bruce bowen and raja bell are not good defenders, when we all know they are.


The whole Pistons teamis great Defensevly..... They just can't score enough points!.. Now with A.I they'll be a force to be recond with...

3RDASYSTEM
11-05-2008, 08:26 PM
Detroit got better deal n if McDyess gets bought out its a landslide like how Obama won, come on guys/girls yall all talk like those ESPN/Foxsports/tv cats, how many people on here have actually played any kind of basketball, organized or park ball, now if u trade a sure lock Hall of Famer/9time all star/league MVP/4 time scorin champ still in his prime yrs(30-36) and playin at ALL NBA level for a 3 time all star/Finals MVP thats basically the same age and all he has lost is a half step after 12 full seasons, its just as easy as if u were to choose between those two in 1998, i agree tho its a good trade for both parties, now come playoff time i guarantee ya Iverson will match WADE/LEBRON/PIERCE or whoeva, those 3 players basically took those Detroit teams out(06-08) cuz they all carry that SUPERSTAR tag and thats why Dumars went out and got a big time scorer/Superstar for big time games.

Sox Appeal
11-06-2008, 01:48 AM
Of course they have Prince as a good wing defender...but still, Chauncey diminished the chance of the Pistons getting the bad end of defensive mismatches because of his size and strength. Iverson will not improve a team whose foundation is defense.

It will give Pistons fans some flashbacks from them old Isiah days though lol.

The Pistons will still be one of the best defensive teams in the Eastern Conference. Like you said, they still have Prince who's obviously one of the best perimeter defenders in the game today, they also have Richard Hamilton, who's another solid perimeter defender, and we also have Rasheed who's obviously one of the better post defenders in the game. We also have, Kwame and Maxiell who are both solid defenders to come off the bench.

Sox Appeal
11-06-2008, 01:54 AM
Chauncey was a much better defender than Rip

No way. Chauncey's defense is somewhat overrated because of the defensive talent that he's been surrounded by the last few years in Detroit. Put him on almost any other NBA team, and he'll become an average defender once again. Rip on the other hand, is a VERY solid defender. He has length, and quick feet, which give him the ability to matchup very well with almost any perimeter player in the NBA today.

theimortalone
11-06-2008, 02:16 AM
Honestly I think that Denver got the better end of the deal. They trade away there true PG for a SG who only shoots :confused: I think that Denver gets better because of Chauncey. They will have a starting 5 of:
Billups
JR Smith(Assuming Karl starts him.)
Melo
K-Mart
Nene

That team definitly did improve, and now Melo has the capability of scoring 35ppg with Billups feeding him the rock, and he doesnt have to worry about AI scoring like him, he will get more points because of no AI. The trade makes Denver a much better team.

How is AI going to make Detroit better?
So it will be
AI
Rip
Prince
Johnson
Sheed

So now they have two Shooting Guards starting...Gotta love it. Denver gets the better end of the deal. I honestly think Det getting AI will make them drop down in the seeds.

Er1c
11-06-2008, 02:21 AM
iverson gives the piston offensive games and billups gives the nuggets experience and outside shooting. so both team gets the beneficial

innovator
11-06-2008, 07:58 AM
iverson is better but both teams get better, nuggets get a pass first mentality PG which they need and the pistons get a go to guy which they need

JJ81
11-06-2008, 07:23 PM
http://i36.tinypic.com/deme8j.gif

dangrant75
11-06-2008, 09:22 PM
Honestly I think that Denver got the better end of the deal. They trade away there true PG for a SG who only shoots :confused: I think that Denver gets better because of Chauncey. They will have a starting 5 of:
Billups
JR Smith(Assuming Karl starts him.)
Melo
K-Mart
Nene

That team definitly did improve, and now Melo has the capability of scoring 35ppg with Billups feeding him the rock, and he doesnt have to worry about AI scoring like him, he will get more points because of no AI. The trade makes Denver a much better team.

How is AI going to make Detroit better?
So it will be
AI
Rip
Prince
Johnson
Sheed

So now they have two Shooting Guards starting...Gotta love it. Denver gets the better end of the deal. I honestly think Det getting AI will make them drop down in the seeds.


I agree, I think Denver got the better end of the deal. Billups will also deflect a lot of attention off of Mello as well. I don't think Det will drop in the rankings though, the only team that can overtake them in the Central is Cleveland and they might, but probably not by much.

Come playoff time Det will miss Billups ability to get everyone else involved, Stuckey and AI are shoot first type point guards. They may make it to the Conference finals though in the improving Eastern Conference.

Oh what could have been if Detroit had of only drafted Mello instead of Darko.

THE_FLASH_21
11-07-2008, 01:38 PM
^ So are u saying that A.I < Billups ????

dangrant75
11-07-2008, 05:46 PM
Billups/McDyess' contract = AI

sometimes teams believe in addition by subtration ie: 2008 Red Sox

Wilson
11-07-2008, 10:36 PM
^ So are u saying that A.I < Billups ????

It's not just about who the better player is, it's about how well the player's involved fit with their teams. IMO, Billups fits with the Nuggets a LOT better than Iverson fits with the Pistons.

DenButsu
11-08-2008, 12:14 AM
It's not just about who the better player is, it's about how well the player's involved fit with their teams. IMO, Billups fits with the Nuggets a LOT better than Iverson fits with the Pistons.

I'm not totally sure about that. I mean, I do think Billups is exactly what the Nuggets needed.

If you look at the other side, though, I think it depends on what perspective you're viewing it from. If you're a Pistons fan, evaluating whether AI is the player you really want for your squad, I'm not sure you can definitively say so. But in several previous conversations in this forum, when the question has been "What would be the best team for AI to have success on?", I've repeatedly answered the Pistons. He needs to be on a squad of solid defenders is the short version. So from the AI point of view, I think he's got to like his chance to be on a roster whose strengths will compliment and cover his weaknesses. It's a good fit for him.

Kiss Ma Grits
11-09-2008, 11:08 PM
Pistons with Billups 4-0, Pistons with Iverson 0-2. I think it was a bad move for the Pistons. If it's not broke don't fix it. To all of you young people who think All Stars instantly makes a team better I want you to refer to the 76ers and the Pistons. Heck Toronto don't look at swell themselves.