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View Full Version : Why risk high picks on centers?



Hellcrooner
10-31-2008, 05:52 AM
Ok this is a list of top 16 picks on centers(or fake centers) in teh last 20 years and what they acomplished(the ones in the last 4 drafts i rate them for what they are right now, they may evolve in better players than they are now)(i dont include this years rookies nor oden because...who knows):


Mighty:Duncan,Shaq,RObisnson


Great:D Howard,Ming,Stoudemire,Pau,Sheed,Zo,Mutombo,


Good:Horford,Okafor,Al Jefferson,Chandler,Camby,D Coleman,R Smits,

Average starter:Bogut,Kaman,Curry,K thomas,Juwan Howard,Longley,Dal Davis,Bynum(Until he plays a full season)Seikaly,

Role Player:Biedrins,Nene,Swift,Battie,L Wright,Brian Grant,Bison Dele,t mills,Harvey Grant,Polynice,

Bench: , Noah,Hawes,Swift,Ely,Murphy,E Thomas,Keon Clark,Foyle,Cato,Dampier,Gatling,

Bench warmer:,Lafrentz,Doleac,FOrtson,Potapenko,Henderso n,S Bradley,Felton spencer,

Towel waiver:Armstrong,Araujo,Mihm(after all the injuries)Moiso,Collier,Mo taylor,Fuller,Trent,Parks,Sharone wright,Kessler,S King,Perrdue,Wolf.


Absolute bust: Obryatn,Sene,Fran Vazquez,May,Milicic,Haislip,Kwame,Kandiman,Traylor ,Reeves,Montross,Yinka Dare,Pervis ellison,Jose ortiz, Welp

So for every hoffer there are like 5 busts and for every great center there are 4 Towel waivers.......

Not many have been good players........


I wouldnt draft a center higher than 20!!!!

BullsFan_1
10-31-2008, 05:54 AM
Several of the players you listed arent even centers...

Hellcrooner
10-31-2008, 05:56 AM
i challenge you to do similar rankings with Pg, Sf, Pf and Sg, you will se the percentage of greatness vs suckiness is much lower.

Hellcrooner
10-31-2008, 05:57 AM
Yes and most of them are in the good side of it, Remove Duncan, Pau, Sheed, Stou that have played some center from the list, and you have a LOT of crap. It loks even worse

Kyben36
10-31-2008, 07:28 AM
Why, A player like Marc gasol came out one year earlier than he should have. Now he is a top 5 prospect for ROY. He was a like what, 50th pick and look at him now. any player can be good. they just have to work realy hard. just ask Gilbert Arenas

Draco
10-31-2008, 07:41 AM
That's a pretty superficial ranking structure.. It doesn't really mean anything that Noah comes off the bench. Gooden has more experience and is a better low post scoring option which the Bulls (specifically the Bulls) need more of at this point. It doesn't mean that Noah wouldn't be starting on a dozen other teams..

Another quick observation Bison Dele (or whatever his name was when he played 1 season for the Bulls) was much better than Luc Longley. Longley was as much a role player and Dele and Dele could score a hell of a lot easier than Longley which is exactly what the Bulls needed that year.

innovator
10-31-2008, 07:50 AM
no way horford is better than bynum lol.... other than that ur list is good

pebloemer
10-31-2008, 08:38 AM
Ok this is a list of top 16 picks on centers(or fake centers) in teh last 20 years and what they acomplished(the ones in the last 4 drafts i rate them for what they are right now, they may evolve in better players than they are now)(i dont include this years rookies nor oden because...who knows):


Mighty:Duncan,Shaq,RObisnson


Great:D Howard,Ming,Stoudemire,Pau,Sheed,Zo,Mutombo,


Good:Horford,Okafor,Al Jefferson,Chandler,Camby,D Coleman,R Smits,

Average starter:Bogut,Kaman,Curry,K thomas,Juwan Howard,Longley,Dal Davis,Bynum(Until he plays a full season)Seikaly,

Role Player:Biedrins,Nene,Swift,Battie,L Wright,Brian Grant,Bison Dele,t mills,Harvey Grant,Polynice,

Bench: , Noah,Hawes,Swift,Ely,Murphy,E Thomas,Keon Clark,Foyle,Cato,Dampier,Gatling,

Bench warmer:,Lafrentz,Doleac,FOrtson,Potapenko,Henderso n,S Bradley,Felton spencer,

Towel waiver:Armstrong,Araujo,Mihm(after all the injuries)Moiso,Collier,Mo taylor,Fuller,Trent,Parks,Sharone wright,Kessler,S King,Perrdue,Wolf.


Absolute bust: Obryatn,Sene,Fran Vazquez,May,Milicic,Haislip,Kwame,Kandiman,Traylor ,Reeves,Montross,Yinka Dare,Pervis ellison,Jose ortiz, Welp

So for every hoffer there are like 5 busts and for every great center there are 4 Towel waivers.......

Not many have been good players........


I wouldnt draft a center higher than 20!!!!

How mant great centers have been drafted after 20?

Rumeye
10-31-2008, 08:48 AM
I'll take a quality big man over a quality small man.

BkOriginalOne
10-31-2008, 08:51 AM
Your list needs a bit of tweaking, too many young players that you deem role players, or just good when we have yet to see how great they will be.
The reason you go big is because a good big is rare. If you get one, you're in position to win a title. Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem all have rings being the leaders of their teams.
Who was the last guard to lead their team to a ring, not named Michael Jordan?

Rumeye
10-31-2008, 09:02 AM
Your list needs a bit of tweaking, too many young players that you deem role players, or just good when we have yet to see how great they will be.
The reason you go big is because a good big is rare. If you get one, you're in position to win a title. Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem all have rings being the leaders of their teams.
Who was the last guard to lead their team to a ring, not named Michael Jordan?

Thomas?

pebloemer
10-31-2008, 09:11 AM
Your list needs a bit of tweaking, too many young players that you deem role players, or just good when we have yet to see how great they will be.
The reason you go big is because a good big is rare. If you get one, you're in position to win a title. Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem all have rings being the leaders of their teams.
Who was the last guard to lead their team to a ring, not named Michael Jordan?

Wade - but I agree with your point.

Tblaze
10-31-2008, 09:46 AM
Wade - but I agree with your point.

I think wade's a fine example but he still had a quite strong big man to go with...

JordansBulls
10-31-2008, 10:56 AM
Ok this is a list of top 16 picks on centers(or fake centers) in teh last 20 years and what they acomplished(the ones in the last 4 drafts i rate them for what they are right now, they may evolve in better players than they are now)(i dont include this years rookies nor oden because...who knows):


Mighty:Duncan,Shaq,RObisnson


Great:D Howard,Ming,Stoudemire,Pau,Sheed,Zo,Mutombo,


Good:Horford,Okafor,Al Jefferson,Chandler,Camby,D Coleman,R Smits,

Average starter:Bogut,Kaman,Curry,K thomas,Juwan Howard,Longley,Dal Davis,Bynum(Until he plays a full season)Seikaly,

Role Player:Biedrins,Nene,Swift,Battie,L Wright,Brian Grant,Bison Dele,t mills,Harvey Grant,Polynice,

Bench: , Noah,Hawes,Swift,Ely,Murphy,E Thomas,Keon Clark,Foyle,Cato,Dampier,Gatling,

Bench warmer:,Lafrentz,Doleac,FOrtson,Potapenko,Henderso n,S Bradley,Felton spencer,

Towel waiver:Armstrong,Araujo,Mihm(after all the injuries)Moiso,Collier,Mo taylor,Fuller,Trent,Parks,Sharone wright,Kessler,S King,Perrdue,Wolf.


Absolute bust: Obryatn,Sene,Fran Vazquez,May,Milicic,Haislip,Kwame,Kandiman,Traylor ,Reeves,Montross,Yinka Dare,Pervis ellison,Jose ortiz, Welp

So for every hoffer there are like 5 busts and for every great center there are 4 Towel waivers.......

Not many have been good players........


I wouldnt draft a center higher than 20!!!!


You need allstar big men to win titles.

DerekRE_3
10-31-2008, 01:22 PM
Guys like Hawes, Horford, Bynum, Biedrins, etc (young centers) shouldn't even be on the list. They are too young and haven't reached their prime yet.

Hellcrooner
10-31-2008, 01:26 PM
Yes i agree, but why risk on a rookie if yuo have a high pick? wait for Free Agenciy or wait for a trade to buy the FINISHED Product.

And the guards or forwards to lead teams to a title lately, Wade, Billups, Thomas, Bird, Dr J, Barry, Havliceck...... i guess thats quite a few.

Of course you cant win without at elast a decente center.

But how many teams have won without a decent player for each spot?

DerekRE_3
10-31-2008, 01:35 PM
I agree with you, picking a Center that high is very risky. Ask the Sonics, they picked a Center three years in a row in the lottery: Johan Petro, Robert Swift, Saer Sene, and none of them have produced anything.

I will say this, I'm glad the Kings took Spencer Hawes with the 10th pick last year. I believe he is in the perfect situation. At 20, Hawes may be already more skilled offensively than Brad Miller. Hawes can shoot (he can even hit 3's), he has some great moves in the post, good footwork, and has really worked to improve his rebounding and interior defense. What's even better is, he has 3 years to learn under Brad Miller, who I believe is a very solid Center and the two have similar games.

On Wednesday, Hawes had 12 points (5-8 shooting), 14 rebounds, and 6 blocks. Pretty good for a 20 year old. I doubt Miller could have put up those numbers when he was 20.

In the final preseason game against Houston, Hawes had 25 points and 16 rebounds, most of which were against Yao Ming.

IndyRealist
10-31-2008, 02:46 PM
The NBA adage is, "You can't teach size." Having a true 7fter on your team is valuable, even if he never averages a double-double, never earns more than the vet's minimum, never appears in an all-star game.

Case in point, last night Dallas lost to Houston, and part of the reason is that they had no one who could actually bother Yao's shot. They played 6'8" Brandon Bass on him at one point. Yao is 7'6". It honestly looked like Yao Ming was running drills against an assistant coach. Back down, back down, back down, hook shot. It was ugly.

theuuord
10-31-2008, 02:50 PM
There aren't a lot of great centers because there aren't a lot of people in the world over 7 feet.
It's really that simple.

The talent pool for guards is huge because there are like 500 times as many people 6'5" and under than there are 7'0 and above.

Plus once you hit the 7 area it's extremely difficult to remain coordinated.

junion
10-31-2008, 03:16 PM
Shawn Bradley is two steps higher than kwame? Shawn Bradley should be sitting on Kwame's lap on the Complete Bust list - and at least Kwame is physically strong. They both suck, but Kwame has strength.

Kings Faithful
10-31-2008, 03:23 PM
Guys like Hawes, Horford, Bynum, Biedrins, etc (young centers) shouldn't even be on the list. They are too young and haven't reached their prime yet.

Yeah thats what I think. All those guys still have a chance to be good-great players and you have them listed at bench-role which isn't fair. I think its worth the risk in many cases to draft centers because big men are what win championships. So, yeah you might get a bad player 3/4 the time, but getting just the slightest chance to pick up a "Dwight Howard' over just another 10-20 ppg guard might be worth it.

valade16
11-21-2008, 09:46 AM
Name a truly dominant Center taken after 20th?

Also, yes Wade "led" his team to the title, but he did have Shaq, the most dominant Center of our era...

The reason you take a Center because even if you miff 19 out of 20 times the result will be a Duncan (4 titles), Shaq (3 titles), Olajuwan (2 titles), Robinson (1 title), or Ewing (no title thanks to Jordan, but several Eastern Finals)...

Now lets go down the list of Guards who have taken a team with crappy big men to titles... Jordan..............

MooseWithFleas
11-21-2008, 12:12 PM
Biedrins role player :confused:

BTW you can do the same thing for guards and forwards

Lakers4ItAll
11-21-2008, 01:28 PM
Big men are hard to come by so it's deff worth the risk

MooseWithFleas
11-21-2008, 02:22 PM
Name teams that won the championship in the past 20 years that didn't have a great center. The Pistons... thats about it.

blackjack_119
11-21-2008, 02:35 PM
Ok this is a list of top 16 picks on centers(or fake centers) in teh last 20 years and what they acomplished(the ones in the last 4 drafts i rate them for what they are right now, they may evolve in better players than they are now)(i dont include this years rookies nor oden because...who knows):


Mighty:Duncan,Shaq,RObisnson


Great:D Howard,Ming,Stoudemire,Pau,Sheed,Zo,Mutombo,


Good:Horford,Okafor,Al Jefferson,Chandler,Camby,D Coleman,R Smits,

Average starter:Bogut,Kaman,Curry,K thomas,Juwan Howard,Longley,Dal Davis,Bynum(Until he plays a full season)Seikaly,

Role Player:Biedrins,Nene,Swift,Battie,L Wright,Brian Grant,Bison Dele,t mills,Harvey Grant,Polynice,

Bench: , Noah,Hawes,Swift,Ely,Murphy,E Thomas,Keon Clark,Foyle,Cato,Dampier,Gatling,

Bench warmer:,Lafrentz,Doleac,FOrtson,Potapenko,Henderso n,S Bradley,Felton spencer,

Towel waiver:Armstrong,Araujo,Mihm(after all the injuries)Moiso,Collier,Mo taylor,Fuller,Trent,Parks,Sharone wright,Kessler,S King,Perrdue,Wolf.


Absolute bust: Obryatn,Sene,Fran Vazquez,May,Milicic,Haislip,Kwame,Kandiman,Traylor ,Reeves,Montross,Yinka Dare,Pervis ellison,Jose ortiz, Welp

So for every hoffer there are like 5 busts and for every great center there are 4 Towel waivers.......

Not many have been good players........


I wouldnt draft a center higher than 20!!!!

1. You forgot Kevin Garnett (who should classify as mighty)... he is closer to a center than Pau Gasol
2. Why are so many picks wasted on centers... look at your list. 9 of the last 10 championships have been won by a player in the "Mighty" category (if you include KG) and the other was won by a guy in "Great" category (who was playing in the finals against a guy in the "Mighty" category.
3. If your Center pans out... you can build a dynasty around him. If your guard pans out... you can get lucky enough to lose to a dominant big man in the finals (unless your name is Michael Jordan)

blackjack_119
11-21-2008, 02:37 PM
Name teams that won the championship in the past 20 years that didn't have a great center. The Pistons... thats about it.

Chicago won half a dozen...

Lakers4ItAll
11-21-2008, 02:42 PM
LOL Touche'


Chicago won half a dozen...

MooseWithFleas
11-21-2008, 02:48 PM
Haha wow, skipped over them because of MJ. So besides a team with the best player of all time... ;)

Robbie7138
11-21-2008, 02:56 PM
although i do think garnett is great, i dont think hes in the mighty catagory

i personally wouldnt catagorize younger big men,for example last year biedrins was a average center and for the first few games this season, hes been playing like an all star..

other than that the list is pretty accurate
good post by the way

Lakers4ItAll
11-21-2008, 02:59 PM
Why wouldn't you?


although i do think garnett is great, i dont think hes in the mighty catagory
i personally wouldnt catagorize younger big men,for example last year biedrins was a average center and for the first few games this season, hes been playing like an all star..

other than that the list is pretty accurate
good post by the way

UofA
11-21-2008, 03:05 PM
Because big men win championships:
Ten of the last eleven champions have been won by Shaq, Duncan, or KG

blackjack_119
11-21-2008, 03:11 PM
Because big men win championships:
Ten of the last eleven champions have been won by Shaq, Duncan, or KG

9 of 10 actually... the Bulls won it in 1998, Duncan in 99; Shaq in 2000, 01, 02; Duncan 03; Pistons 04, Duncan 05, Shaq (Miami) 06; Duncan 07 and KG 08

UofA
11-21-2008, 03:17 PM
9 of 10 actually... the Bulls won it in 1998, Duncan in 99; Shaq in 2000, 01, 02; Duncan 03; Pistons 04, Duncan 05, Shaq (Miami) 06; Duncan 07 and KG 08

My bad

mrblisterdundee
11-21-2008, 03:21 PM
The game is definitely faster than it was before. Teams executing a half court offense choose a big man to plug the middle. Fast break teams choose a smaller big man to run and still plug the middle. The problem is choosing a player with balance and without a history of injury problems. Even then, you can still get a good player though. Look at how good Amare is doing on two surgical knees.