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JordansBulls
10-27-2008, 05:00 PM
Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2009&week=0)



The defending champs, as always, start out at No. 1 in the opening night edition of our weekly, fully non-automated pulse check of the league,





2008-09 Power Rankings: Preseason

1. Celtics 66-16 He hasn't done too much in Charlotte, but Michael Jordan has fired up at least one Celtic amid all those doubts about Boston's hunger to repeat. Sayeth Ray Allen: ''MJ told me when you win one, you've just [been] lucky.''

2. Lakers 57-25 The Lakers were a popular choice to win it all even before Lamar Odom was shifted to sixth man. If that move works, they might even live up to such lofty billing.

3. Hornets 56-26 Too soon to say Posey's arrival is already paying off? The Hornets have already won something -- they were preseason ''champs'' at 7-0 -- and are third favorites to win it all according to the league's annual survey of GMs.

4. Cavaliers 45-37 Q: Why are folks like me making such a big deal about the Mo Williams acquisition? A: Because LeBron's Cavs took Boston to seven games in the second round without a No. 2 scorer/shooter in Williams' class.

5. Spurs 56-26 Is Pop's long, gray, unruly beard meant to mock folks who have written off the Spurs as too old? Better question: Have you considered how dangerous they might be if Manu is healed and rested come playoff time?

6. Rockets 55-27 Who knows how many games T-Mac, Yao and Ron-Ron actually play together? But I question anyone saying Artest might mess up Houston's chemistry. Mess up what? Rockets haven't won a playoff series since 1997.

7. Pistons 59-23 Who doesn't think the Pistons are slipping? In that league survey of GMs, more than half (55.6 percent) picked the team that didn't make a major offseason move over Cleveland (44.4 percent) to win the Central Division.

8. 76ers 40-42 Funny old game, isn't it? You can go to Duke, go No. 1 overall in the draft, play in major media markets with the Bulls and Clips . . . and you can still, as Elton Brand would tell you, find a whole new level of scrutiny in Philly.

9. Jazz 54-28 An early injury scare with D-Will isn't the best of starts, but he's the last guy I'd worry about in Jazz country. Far bigger question marks, to me, are Utah's suspect D and the pitfalls of having eight potential free agents.

10. Mavericks 51-31 Just thinking out loud (again): If they won 51 games last season when everyone in Mavsland was so miserable, shouldn't we hold off on all those obituaries until we see how the Mavs look (and feel) under Carlisle?

kswissdaf
10-27-2008, 05:12 PM
GRR the heat r 2 low

Verbal Christ
10-27-2008, 05:18 PM
Cavaliers in front of the ROX??? Yeah Right.

lakers4sho
10-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Cavaliers are too high.

Well, why am I surprised? It's ESPN, after all.

Lakersfan2483
10-27-2008, 05:36 PM
Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2009&week=0)

I don't think the Cavs should be ranked above Houston, San Antonio, and Utah. No surprise though, ESPN is already crowning Lebron the MVP before the season even begins.

STAT1
10-27-2008, 05:38 PM
76ers 8th? Mavs 10th? that's a little questionable.

ARMIN12NBA
10-27-2008, 05:40 PM
Cavaliers in front of the ROX??? Yeah Right.

Lebron is on the Cavs...Hence the Cavs being overrated and too high on the list. It's ESPN, they HAVE to slurp Lebron up. He has been the pre-season MVP for what, the last 3 years...

kobe24>jordan23
10-27-2008, 06:47 PM
^^^ no probably his whole career lol!

Draco
10-27-2008, 06:51 PM
I'm surprised to find myself fine with these rankings/explanations.. seem fair to me.

LAKERS 24/7
10-27-2008, 06:52 PM
I think people are also underrating the spurs. Yes they're older and have lost a couple steps, but how many times have we said that? They still made the wcf, and could have progressed further had manu been healthy (I'm glad he wasn't though, for obvious reasons).

IversonIsKrazy
10-27-2008, 06:55 PM
i gotta agree w/ the above. spurs ahead of rockets. thas tha way it should b!

kntresistheheat
10-27-2008, 07:35 PM
Pacers,Bucks,Clippers are in front of the heat?:confused::crazy::pity::rolleyes:

stevefrancis
10-27-2008, 07:41 PM
cavs in front of rockets and jazz? we all know theres two teams that are with the western conference and thats boston and maybe detroit.

MiamiHeat
10-27-2008, 07:43 PM
ESPN sure loves some Lebron James

BADizzleBoY
10-27-2008, 07:49 PM
ehh wtf do we know guys, they no a hell of a lot more then us

we tend to forget that..

Sox Appeal
10-27-2008, 08:00 PM
The Cavs being ahead of the Pistons is laughable.

BADizzleBoY
10-27-2008, 08:03 PM
meh i could argue they are overrated, but come on

lbj is lbj

it could happen

dre1990
10-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Pistons are top 4 and jazz are a lil bit higher IMAO

philab
10-27-2008, 08:30 PM
ESPN sure loves some Lebron James

I think everyone's making a little too much of all this.

LeBron is a very likely candidate for MVP. It's not absurd that ESPN would pick him. The whole "best player not to win the MVP" argument will definitely work in his favor, whether that's fair or not. I don't think it's outrageous think he might win the MVP; he's got an equal or better chance as Kobe and Paul.

Cavaliers at #4 might be outrageous to some. I don't really have any problems with people questioning that. It's not that big of a deal, though. These outlets that make predictions like to take some chances to make it more interesting. We don't need 15 posts about how "ESPN is just sucking off LeBron again."


I don't know -- just my $0.02.

ARMIN12NBA
10-27-2008, 08:36 PM
I think everyone's making a little too much of all this.

LeBron is a very likely candidate for MVP. It's not absurd that ESPN would pick him. The whole "best player not to win the MVP" argument will definitely work in his favor, whether that's fair or not. I don't think it's outrageous think he might win the MVP; he's got an equal or better chance as Kobe and Paul.

Cavaliers at #4 might be outrageous to some. I don't really have any problems with people questioning that. It's not that big of a deal, though. These outlets that make predictions like to take some chances to make it more interesting. We don't need 15 posts about how "ESPN is just sucking off LeBron again."


I don't know -- just my $0.02.

It's absurd that they have picked him the last three years.

How does he have a better chance than Chris Paul or Kobe Bryant? The MVP award usually goes to the teams with the top record and probably to a western conference team. The Hornets and Lakers will have a much better record than the Cavs and they are in the western conference.

People are just speaking the truth. It is ESPN's job and Nike's job to do that. His marketing failed big time in the Olympics (Bryant stole the show in China) and they have to restore that lost marketing in China to the US.

b_rad23
10-27-2008, 09:04 PM
Heat up, pacers down. The east rankings need a shakeup.

l GeArs l
10-27-2008, 09:09 PM
ehh wtf do we know guys, they no a hell of a lot more then us

we tend to forget that..

Yeah and you tend to forget that, 99.99% of the time ESPN is wrong. The only differance between Us and ESpn is that they actually come out on t.v. :mad:

philab
10-27-2008, 09:34 PM
It's absurd that they have picked him the last three years.

How does he have a better chance than Chris Paul or Kobe Bryant? The MVP award usually goes to the teams with the top record and probably to a western conference team. The Hornets and Lakers will have a much better record than the Cavs and they are in the western conference.

People are just speaking the truth. It is ESPN's job and Nike's job to do that. His marketing failed big time in the Olympics (Bryant stole the show in China) and they have to restore that lost marketing in China to the US.


I don't remember if they've picked him the last three years. If they have, it is a little ridiculous. He had more than a legitimate shot each year, but so did a handful of other players.

I'd say he has an equal (maybe better) chance than Paul or Bryant. First, there's the "best player not to win" argument that I referred to earlier. There are a lot of people in the media who, whether correct or not, think LeBron is the best player in the NBA.

Remember, this is an award voted on by the media. As far as I'm concerned, MVP votes and the like have very little meaning. These aren't "basketball experts" for the most part -- they're just columnists for large media outlets. Regardless, the award lies in their hands.

I expect the Cavaliers to win more games this year. Around 50 or so. If they only win 45 again, it'll be real tough for him to win. I don't see the Hornets winning more than 55-57. Lakers COULD win somewhere in the low-to-mid 60s. If they do and Kobe's numbers are anywhere close to LeBron's, it's probably Kobe's again.

If the Cavaliers win 50 or more and LeBron wins the scoring title along with putting up around 8 and 8, he's got a pretty damn good shot. It's just my opinion, so disagree with it if you want. I really don't care too much about MVP voting to be honest.

Also, I wasn't faulting anyone for saying things about ESPN favoring LeBron. I just thought it was a bit ridiculous that everyone assumes that the Cavaliers are only up there because Stein is following some order sent down from the heads of ESPN and Nike or some garbage. Is it not possible that Stein just believes the Cavaliers will be good? It's just one man's opinion.

This ESPN/Nike conspiracy about LeBron is pretty goofy. Sure, they may hype him to create a "face", a marketable superstar, etc. I really doubt that MARC STEIN has any interest in helping ESPN and Nike (with whom he has no affiliation) recover lost marketing money from the Olympics in CHINA that took place almost four months ago. And I really doubt that anyone thought MARC STEIN's NBA preview on ESPN.COM would generate whatever money was lost. I was gone for the Olympics so I didn't get the chance to see what happened, by the way. Say it's all part of a bigger picture or whatever, fine. A little thing called "Occam's razor" makes me think the case is just that Marc Stein thinks the Cavaliers will be better than other people think.

The Intimidator
10-27-2008, 10:03 PM
All that matters is that #1 ranked team baby!!! Celtics will repeat!

cmstophe
10-27-2008, 10:03 PM
The Cavs being ahead of the Pistons is laughable.

What happened last time the Pistons played the Cavaliers in a meaningful series?

Just playing devil's advocate to all the Cavs haters this forum seems to be infested with. I like the Cavs. I like LBJ. I think they are underrated this year, which they are probably glad of.

NYMetros
10-27-2008, 10:06 PM
How are the Cavs higher than the Pistons? Someone enlighten me. It is only rankings though. We will let our play on the court do the talking.

cmstophe
10-27-2008, 10:14 PM
How are the Cavs higher than the Pistons? Someone enlighten me. It is only rankings though. We will let our play on the court do the talking.

What are you, a Pistons/Steelers/??? fan? Or what? I'm a little confused.

Like I said, what happened last time the Cavs and Pistons played a meaningful series? The Pistons went home with their tail between their legs. Everyone knows the Cavs sleep walk the regular season and step it up in the playoffs. I think people should be skeptical on how good the Cavs will be in the regular season but a lot of people are drastically underrating them.

ARMIN12NBA
10-27-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't remember if they've picked him the last three years. If they have, it is a little ridiculous. He had more than a legitimate shot each year, but so did a handful of other players.

I'd say he has an equal (maybe better) chance than Paul or Bryant. First, there's the "best player not to win" argument that I referred to earlier. There are a lot of people in the media who, whether correct or not, think LeBron is the best player in the NBA.

Remember, this is an award voted on by the media. As far as I'm concerned, MVP votes and the like have very little meaning. These aren't "basketball experts" for the most part -- they're just columnists for large media outlets. Regardless, the award lies in their hands.

I expect the Cavaliers to win more games this year. Around 50 or so. If they only win 45 again, it'll be real tough for him to win. I don't see the Hornets winning more than 55-57. Lakers COULD win somewhere in the low-to-mid 60s. If they do and Kobe's numbers are anywhere close to LeBron's, it's probably Kobe's again.

If the Cavaliers win 50 or more and LeBron wins the scoring title along with putting up around 8 and 8, he's got a pretty damn good shot. It's just my opinion, so disagree with it if you want. I really don't care too much about MVP voting to be honest.

Also, I wasn't faulting anyone for saying things about ESPN favoring LeBron. I just thought it was a bit ridiculous that everyone assumes that the Cavaliers are only up there because Stein is following some order sent down from the heads of ESPN and Nike or some garbage. Is it not possible that Stein just believes the Cavaliers will be good? It's just one man's opinion.

This ESPN/Nike conspiracy about LeBron is pretty goofy. Sure, they may hype him to create a "face", a marketable superstar, etc. I really doubt that MARC STEIN has any interest in helping ESPN and Nike (with whom he has no affiliation) recover lost marketing money from the Olympics in CHINA that took place almost four months ago. And I really doubt that anyone thought MARC STEIN's NBA preview on ESPN.COM would generate whatever money was lost. I was gone for the Olympics so I didn't get the chance to see what happened, by the way. Say it's all part of a bigger picture or whatever, fine. A little thing called "Occam's razor" makes me think the case is just that Marc Stein thinks the Cavaliers will be better than other people think.

They have picked him.

I guess that's your opinion that the Cavs will win 50 games+. I personally don't feel they will win that many games so I think either Chris Paul or Kobe Bryant will win the award. I could be wrong and the writers may give the award to Lebron anyways.

There was an article about how Nike was disappointed in the Olympics because Kobe got more play on TV than Lebron and was more likable in China than Lebron. I'm sure they and ESPN are trying to make up that lost money as we speak. It is no conspiracy. It is business and they have the most money invested in LBJ.

cmstophe
10-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Well you could have made a case for LBJ winning MVP the past two years, so it isnt outlandish.

#1Mavericksfan
10-27-2008, 10:26 PM
Thoes Power Rankings look about right to me...no complaints here.

philab
10-27-2008, 10:33 PM
They have picked him.

I guess that's your opinion that the Cavs will win 50 games+. I personally don't feel they will win that many games so I think either Chris Paul or Kobe Bryant will win the award. I could be wrong and the writers may give the award to Lebron anyways.

There was an article about how Nike was disappointed in the Olympics because Kobe got more play on TV than Lebron and was more likable in China than Lebron. I'm sure they and ESPN are trying to make up that lost money as we speak. It is no conspiracy. It is business and they have the most money invested in LBJ.

I'm a little curious why you don't think the Cavaliers win will around 50 games (you have a tendency to amp up my statements to the next level -- I didn't say 50+). They won 50 the two seasons prior to the last one, and have most likely gotten better, if only very slightly. The East has gotten better, I guess . . .

(I wouldn't be surprised if they only win 45 or so, but my best judgment says around 50.)

ESPN and Nike trying to make up lost money is not what I was referring to as a "conspiracy". Of course they're trying to make it up. I was referring to the "conspiracy" that MARC STEIN's ESPN.com NBA Preview has anything to do with this attempt to recover money. Again, Occam's razor here: the conclusion that requires the least assumptions is the preferable one. Marc Stein just believing that the Cavaliers are the 4th best team, however crazy that may sound, requires far fewer assumptions than the heads of ESPN and Nike deciding to make up money by employing Marc Stein's massive influence on the general consumer and having him write an NBA preview that slightly to moderately overrates the Cavaliers.

cmstophe
10-27-2008, 10:41 PM
the reason the Cavs didnt win 50 games last year is due to holdouts, injuries which contributed to the slow start that they never recovered from.

philab
10-27-2008, 10:51 PM
the reason the Cavs didnt win 50 games last year is due to holdouts, injuries which contributed to the slow start that they never recovered from.


W-L of 45-30 with LeBron, for what it's worth.

michaellui11
10-27-2008, 11:00 PM
i agree with it mostly but i think houston should be way up there

goku
10-27-2008, 11:17 PM
its just preseason predictions after the first couple of weeks of the season we will see who belongs in the top 10

Lebron23
10-27-2008, 11:50 PM
Well you could have made a case for LBJ winning MVP the past two years, so it isnt outlandish.

I hope LeBron James win his first MVP Next year because Steve Nash already destroyed the credibility of that award by being the only 2 time MVP, that never lead his team in the NBA Finals.

Lebron23
10-27-2008, 11:56 PM
W-L of 45-30 with LeBron, for what it's worth.



Cavaliers are going to win 53 games next year, and I hope we out rank the Celtics as the best defensive team in the Eastern Conference.

cmstophe
10-27-2008, 11:58 PM
Cavs get a ton of hate on these forums, more than any other board I've seen which is weird since all the Cavs fans (like all 2 of you) on these boards seem very respectable (especially you, LBJ23) and realistic in their opinions.

I think people are just jealous of how Cleveland has Lebron James and choose to hate on the Cavaliers.

Lebron23
10-28-2008, 12:28 AM
Cavs get a ton of hate on these forums, more than any other board I've seen which is weird since all the Cavs fans (like all 2 of you) on these boards seem very respectable (especially you, LBJ23) and realistic in their opinions.

I think people are just jealous of how Cleveland has Lebron James and choose to hate on the Cavaliers.


People forget that the Cavaliers are the best defensive team in the playoffs last year even better than the Boston Celtics. The reason that we acquired Mo Williams from the Bucks is to improve our offense because Coach Mike Brown wants to implement the pick and roll play next season.

Here is the quote from NBA.com



When the Cavs reached the NBA Finals in 2006-07, they were the fourth-best defensive team in the league in the regular season, with a rating of 102.8. And they were the best defensive team in the playoffs, with a rating of 101.4.

Last season, the Cavs fell off defensively in the regular season, ranking 11th in the league with a rating of 107.9. But they were once again the top defensive team in the postseason (even better than the Celtics), with a rating of 103.2. And of course, they were a possession or two from knocking off Boston in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals.


http://www.nba.com/2008/news/features/john_schuhmann/10/26/mowilliams/

Mo Williams is going to be a good addition to the Cavs because he can create his own shoot, good scorer, and last year he averaged 17 ppg, 6 apg as the 2nd scoring option of the Milwaukee Bucks.

The Cavs will have a better record next season because our team was well prepared in training Camp, and LeBron James is inspire to play next season after winning an Olympic Gold Medal.

lakers4sho
10-28-2008, 12:55 AM
Cavs get a ton of hate on these forums, more than any other board I've seen which is weird since all the Cavs fans (like all 2 of you) on these boards seem very respectable (especially you, LBJ23) and realistic in their opinions.

I think people are just jealous of how Cleveland has Lebron James and choose to hate on the Cavaliers.

I guess you haven't seen (or at least heard of) 23LBJCleBrowns

lakers4sho
10-28-2008, 12:56 AM
People forget that the Cavaliers are the best defensive team in the playoffs last year even better than the Boston Celtics. The reason that we acquired Mo Williams from the Bucks is to improve our offense because Coach Mike Brown wants to implement the pick and roll play next season.

Aren't the Cavs doing the pick and roll in 99.9% of their possessions already?? :eyebrow:

Master Mind
10-28-2008, 01:17 AM
Pacers,Bucks,Clippers are in front of the heat?:confused::crazy::pity::rolleyes:

I'm puzzled as well...:confused:

LAKERS 24/7
10-28-2008, 01:33 AM
I guess you haven't seen (or at least heard of) 23LBJCleBrowns

Guess not, otherwise he would retract his statement of 23LBJCleBrowns being a respectable poster.


I'm a little curious why you don't think the Cavaliers win will around 50 games (you have a tendency to amp up my statements to the next level -- I didn't say 50+). They won 50 the two seasons prior to the last one, and have most likely gotten better, if only very slightly. The East has gotten better, I guess . . .

(I wouldn't be surprised if they only win 45 or so, but my best judgment says around 50.)

ESPN and Nike trying to make up lost money is not what I was referring to as a "conspiracy". Of course they're trying to make it up. I was referring to the "conspiracy" that MARC STEIN's ESPN.com NBA Preview has anything to do with this attempt to recover money. Again, Occam's razor here: the conclusion that requires the least assumptions is the preferable one. Marc Stein just believing that the Cavaliers are the 4th best team, however crazy that may sound, requires far fewer assumptions than the heads of ESPN and Nike deciding to make up money by employing Marc Stein's massive influence on the general consumer and having him write an NBA preview that slightly to moderately overrates the Cavaliers.

You seem to be a good poster however, very well thought out points. Lebron James probably will win the MVP this year unless one of the following does not happen:

1. Lebron James has great all-around stats (no reason to doubt he won't)

2. Cavaliers win at least 50 games (probably will in a weak eastern conference)

There are other factors to consider as well. Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant both deserved it last year because no only did they have the above requirements, but they also had something extra. Chris Paul took a team that didn't make the playoffs the previous year to within one game of the conference title. Kobe Bryant received the award because everyone knew he deserved at least one, and this was it (AKA Lifetime Achievement Award). If he didn't get it this year after fulfilling every requirement necessary to achieve it, then it loses ALL credibility whatsoever.

In summary, Lebron will win it unless someone else severely outplays his team (It would take around 62+ wins and great stats to take it away from him).

philab
10-28-2008, 09:17 AM
Guess not, otherwise he would retract his statement of 23LBJCleBrowns being a respectable poster.



You seem to be a good poster however, very well thought out points. Lebron James probably will win the MVP this year unless one of the following does not happen:

1. Lebron James has great all-around stats (no reason to doubt he won't)

2. Cavaliers win at least 50 games (probably will in a weak eastern conference)

There are other factors to consider as well. Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant both deserved it last year because no only did they have the above requirements, but they also had something extra. Chris Paul took a team that didn't make the playoffs the previous year to within one game of the conference title. Kobe Bryant received the award because everyone knew he deserved at least one, and this was it (AKA Lifetime Achievement Award). If he didn't get it this year after fulfilling every requirement necessary to achieve it, then it loses ALL credibility whatsoever.

In summary, Lebron will win it unless someone else severely outplays his team (It would take around 62+ wins and great stats to take it away from him).

Oh, I never said LeBron deserved it last year. I don't think he did. In my book, he was 3rd behind Paul and Kobe.

Also, I wasn't guaranteeing that LeBron wins the MVP if he has the stats and the wins -- just that he's got a very good shot.

cmstophe
10-28-2008, 09:33 AM
I guess you haven't seen (or at least heard of) 23LBJCleBrowns


Hahahah, I forgot about him. But I mean, all fanbases have guys like that. The other ones I have seen are very well informed and make good points.


Guess not, otherwise he would retract his statement of 23LBJCleBrowns being a respectable poster.


Well, right, I forgot about him, but I never mentioned him by name. I said Lebron23, not 23LBJCleBrowns. So not all of them are respectable, but please, wold you like me to cite all the ridiculous Kobe homers I've come across not just on these forums but other boards too? I don't let a few bad apples mess up my opinion of people. Some of you need to chill on the Cavs hate.

mrblisterdundee
10-28-2008, 11:48 AM
The Mavericks should not be ranked that high. Dirk Nowitzki is a head case choke artist, and Jason Kidd is a bit too old. Josh Howard and Jason Terry are good, but overall they don't have enough telented depth.

theimortalone
10-28-2008, 01:38 PM
The Mavs at #10???? :confused: