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View Full Version : Closer proposal for 09'



AlStump
10-22-2008, 01:14 PM
I've got a wild but sound pitching theory for the Tigers closing roll for 09. We all know Leyland wants Zumaya setting up Rodney.Bla Bla Bla it didn't look good to me.We all know being a flame thrower with no control or movement doesn't work, you walk batters and they can take a 96-100 mph fast ball with no movement up in the zone and deposit a souvenir. Put them in the pen where they can be used situationally. Why not place Kenny Rogers or Freddy Garcia in the closer spot. They throw strikes they have good control they know when to change speeds and pitches. It worked for T. Jones(maybe a bad example) It saves their arm at their age to pitch one inning plus it gives them a veteran presence/coaching on bench and in the club house. In theory if every thing pans out with the starters(injury,control) it will clear up the rotation keeping it Verlander,Galaraga,Bonderman,Willis/Minor. Then we can go after a seasoned catcher and SS (even tho I like Santiago) and maybe some additional pen help. I believe with the new pitching coach, minor tweaks, a club house that's united, keep and develop young talent in the farm system we won't have to go after broke *** veterans, trade Maggs, or trade the young talent in the farm system.

Bondomania
10-22-2008, 04:31 PM
would never work with Rogers, his BB/K ratio was rough, i think he walked more than he struck out.. also occassionally closers need to blow guys away, or get a key strike out.. some Rogers cannot do anymore.. he has to pitch to a lot of contact and that could be dangerous in spacious COPA..

mark1125
10-22-2008, 06:21 PM
Rogers needs to retire. I would rather see Garcia get a shot than see Rodney in the role.

Nizzle20
10-22-2008, 08:48 PM
the closer role needs to have a strike out guy. Thats the definition of a closer. And why so many people didn't like Todd Jones. He didnt strike out batters and pitched to contact. That is fine in a lot of areas. But not the ninth when the game is on the line and you want to do every thing you can to keep the bases empty.

JackB
10-23-2008, 07:38 AM
I don't know if Garcia can continue to build up his arm strength to get over the 90 mph mark but look at Soria from KC. he doesn't hit more then 91-92. He does have a nasty slider.His numbers overall were as good or better then Papelbons.I agree with Rogers being put out to pasture.It may also be the same for Garcia. Its time we decided to get younger. A seasoned vet is great to have but not somebody that is at the end or even past their time.

AlStump
10-23-2008, 10:21 AM
yeah people said that about Rogers in 06' and many other aging vets in the recent past. You don't always need a 97-100mph to close outta game I've seen way too many of those turned on and sent into the stands. If Rodney can pitch fast ball strikes that have movement and find their location,and keep that change up from hanging, he's our closer.

hoog
10-23-2008, 12:41 PM
I'm sorry guys but I'm still holding out hope for JZ. I still think if he goes back to using the curve, fastball, change up and IF he can get a first pitch strike (God, I hope this new pitching coach helps with this!!!) then he's the guy. Barring that, look what Kerry Wood has done in Chicago. I think if Robertson get's an inning he'd be fine as a reliever. I always thought he had set up closer mentality anyway. He's definately out as a starter in my opinion but with his make up I think he could do it. Unless, of course, we go out and get Juan Cruz.

onlyallsports
10-23-2008, 01:05 PM
I think we go get a guy that can automatically can do that role either we go after K-Rod if we cant get him then either the Mets or Angeles have the best chance to snag him up in the case if the mets get him than i think we sign billy wagner he is a damn od closer when the team is winning and he likes where he plays. and hoffman is the all time save leader and a free agent the tigers like the Pistons are in a win now scenario you hear maggs being dealt if anything get rid of inge and shef sign texeria and move cabby back to third as fore shortstop i like furcal or we trade fore one hardy or wilson what do you think.

Lionsforlife
10-23-2008, 03:27 PM
I think we go get a guy that can automatically can do that role either we go after K-Rod if we cant get him then either the Mets or Angeles have the best chance to snag him up in the case if the mets get him than i think we sign billy wagner he is a damn od closer when the team is winning and he likes where he plays. and hoffman is the all time save leader and a free agent the tigers like the Pistons are in a win now scenario you hear maggs being dealt if anything get rid of inge and shef sign texeria and move cabby back to third as fore shortstop i like furcal or we trade fore one hardy or wilson what do you think.

Where are you getting the money to bring in both KRod and Teixeira. Plus no one will take on Inge or Sheff's salary.

But to the closer role, I wouldn't mind taking a look at some people already on the roster. I once had a crazy idea of just getting a look at Willis for closer. I know he walks too much, but knowing he only had one inning, maybe it wouldn't be as bad. I actually don't mind the thought of a "crafty" closer. As much as Jones scared me, he had some good years and never had over powering stuff.

I would like to believe that Zumaya could do it, but he will never be healthy again I don't think, so no use hanging your hat on that. I don't want to go out and break the bank for a big name closer, they don't pitch enough for what they cost. I am actually hoping maybe someone from the farm system could step up.

Detroit70
10-23-2008, 04:44 PM
I agree joel could handle the closer role very nice. Bottom line we should have never let jamie walker go he was a very nice set up man. We should use our farm system for the pitching woes in the middle relief area. As a SS goes we need speed and start stealing bases. Here's a wild idea Jimmy Rollins! I keep reading in other forums he could be traded this off season. Granted the WS could change thier mind if the they win the worldseries. Just IMO!!!!!!!!!!!

AlStump
10-23-2008, 04:45 PM
Yeah wonder if Blaine Neal is gonna give em a run for their money. Wishful thinking that the Tigers are gonna sign big money free agents who want long term contracts. Or give up another Jurrjens. I guarantee the only money spent this year will be on a seasoned catcher.

JackB
10-23-2008, 10:35 PM
Jason Varitek? Nah Just kidding. His best years are way behind him. Plus he might want to wear the C on his jersey in Detroit. God I hate that. Hockey this ain't. Does he really need that to prove he's the captain?

Lionsforlife
10-23-2008, 11:09 PM
I agree joel could handle the closer role very nice. Bottom line we should have never let jamie walker go he was a very nice set up man. We should use our farm system for the pitching woes in the middle relief area. As a SS goes we need speed and start stealing bases. Here's a wild idea Jimmy Rollins! I keep reading in other forums he could be traded this off season. Granted the WS could change thier mind if the they win the worldseries. Just IMO!!!!!!!!!!!

Jamie Walker was a left handed specialist. Not a set-up man. If we would have given him the money Baltimore did we would have regretted it.

On a different note, am I the only one who is sick of the talk about how we need to bring in high profile guys into every position. In my opinion, that's why we failed this year. We went out and grabbed big names and got burned. In my opinion, what we need is another Sean Casey. We need a veteran that can hold is own at the plate (not flashy numbers) who is a clubhouse guy. Now, granted Casey came to us late in 2006 but he is clubhouse glue. This year it seemed we had nothing like that whatsoever. Top name free agents usually crash and burn. We are not as far away as people think. We need more youth, not over priced veterans (I know Krod is young, but he falls under the overpriced variety-I hate FA closers).

Sorry this rant was a little off topic.

scottie
10-23-2008, 11:26 PM
STOP TYPING IMO, or IN MY OPINION. We already know that you guys have no clue what your talking about.

Epic89
10-24-2008, 12:28 AM
Guarantee you Eric Gagne is the closer next year. Dave Dombrowski is watching the Phillies and Brad Lidge right now, thinking "that's the way you do it; a no-risk, all-reward deal for a guy that was once lights out"

There's a slight problem though; Lidge never did HGH, Gagne did

Bondomania
10-24-2008, 09:10 AM
Wagner is done for next year... whoever mentioned signing wagner.. he had Tommy John surgery and wasn't a FA anyway

AlStump
10-24-2008, 09:52 AM
I'm sick of talking about signing big money free agents as well. Its not gonna happen. The Tigers are not gonna go the route the Yankees took. If Gagne signs in Detroit that equals the same deal we took with Percival, bastard prolly wont even pitch a game in a Tigers uniform. I say stay the route develop develop develop.

Detroit70
10-24-2008, 10:11 AM
Walker was a middle relief or set up man. He was a monster when he came in the game. They would have not regret signing him. I would rather they develop in house but SS is not a strong area for us in the minors. The tigers do need a base stealer in the top of order free agent or in house.

JackB
10-24-2008, 11:48 AM
Will somebody tell me what prolly means?

AlStump
10-24-2008, 02:55 PM
Well Mr.White, it's slang for probably.

CiscoKid
10-24-2008, 04:24 PM
What do you guys think of Huston Street? He is a low risk, high reward guy. Beane doesn't hang on to closers very long and we have Joey Devine to close in '09. What would the Tigers give to acquire Street?

jjrsle
10-24-2008, 09:09 PM
Next season, my conservative estimates:
AVE HR SB R RBI
CF Granderson .285 20 20 100 80
2B Polanco .295 10 8 90 70
RF Ordonez .320 20 3 100 110
1B Cabrara .300 35 1 90 130
DH Sheffield .270 20 10 70 70
LF Guillen .300 20 9 80 85
3B Inge .240 20 7 60 70
C Ryan .245 10 1 35 45
SS Santiago .280 5 8 40 40

OF Thames .245 20 1 40 50
U Rayburn .255 7 4 20 25
U Larish .270 15 0 25 35


ERA W- L SV
SP Burnett 3.64 15-10 0
SP Verlander 3.94 15-10 0
SP Bonderman 4.10 13-10 0
SP Galarraga 3.88 15- 10 0
SP Willis 5.14 10-15 0

RP Robertson 4.38 5-5 0
RP Minor 3.85 6-3 0
RP Zumaya 2.88 3-2 10
RP Rodney 4.56 2-4 5
RP Seay 3.05 2-1 0
RP Gagne 3.93 1-3 30

New ace, new closer, new pitching coach, a new outlook and 90+ wins! Tigers 09!

JackB
10-25-2008, 09:25 AM
Hmm. Its only one letter less then the word. Why not just type the full word?If you are talking its one thing but writing? And why are you saying Mr White? I ask a question and get this? Are you sure you aren't Scottie ?

scottie
10-25-2008, 11:26 AM
Will somebody tell me what prolly means?

It means your old and trying to start problems. Don't bring me into this old man!

JackB
10-25-2008, 11:30 AM
Didn't they ban your *** once before? I have another note in to the modarators about ou. It won't be long and we'll be saying goodbye to you.

scottie
10-25-2008, 12:39 PM
Hmm. Its only one letter less then the word. Why not just type the full word?If you are talking its one thing but writing? And why are you saying Mr White? I ask a question and get this? Are you sure you aren't Scottie ?

prolly= probably Jack. The king can attest I'm no spelling ace, but it is NOT ONLY 1 LETTER LESS.

scottie
10-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Next season, my conservative estimates:
AVE HR SB R RBI
CF Granderson .285 20 20 100 80
2B Polanco .295 10 8 90 70
RF Ordonez .320 20 3 100 110
1B Cabrara .300 35 1 90 130
DH Sheffield .270 20 10 70 70
LF Guillen .300 20 9 80 85
3B Inge .240 20 7 60 70
C Ryan .245 10 1 35 45
SS Santiago .280 5 8 40 40

OF Thames .245 20 1 40 50
U Rayburn .255 7 4 20 25
U Larish .270 15 0 25 35


ERA W- L SV
SP Burnett 3.64 15-10 0
SP Verlander 3.94 15-10 0
SP Bonderman 4.10 13-10 0
SP Galarraga 3.88 15- 10 0
SP Willis 5.14 10-15 0

RP Robertson 4.38 5-5 0
RP Minor 3.85 6-3 0
RP Zumaya 2.88 3-2 10
RP Rodney 4.56 2-4 5
RP Seay 3.05 2-1 0
RP Gagne 3.93 1-3 30

New ace, new closer, new pitching coach, a new outlook and 90+ wins! Tigers 09!

Do you really want Gagne?

scottie
10-25-2008, 01:13 PM
I would like to see Street close for us also. I think Z has a chance, but that guy has let us down befor. I do not want Gagne.

I do want to see Todd Jones on the scouting team though. One thing that guy always did well was scout opposing player or study them.

Bondomania
10-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Gagne isn't horrible.. i wouldn't want him to be our closer.. but in a setup role i think he could do very well

NO TO HUSTON STREET!! Beane would rape our farm system for him, and i have always thought he was overrated..

I think that projection is a little generous for some of the players... i don't think Inge will hit .240 or hit 20 bombs.. Larish could hit 15 but i think if he is a utility player he will be looking at around 5 to 10 maybe.. I don't get why you have Granderson's avg going down next year... his avg has essentially gone up every year and he is probably a .300 hitter at this point in his career.. and i think your Guillen HR numbers are way to high.. Guillen at this point seems like he will be around 15 hrs..

I would look for any way to move Robertson, and then i would sign Juan Cruz from the D-backs.. hard thrower and wouldn't cost a lot to get him... i think he is looking more for years, not money.. his line was

4-0
2.61 ERA
71 k's
31 BB
51.2 IP

JackB
10-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Cruz came up in the Oakland system didn't he? His bb to K's isn't that great but his K's for innings pitched is. ERA isn't something that bothers me. It can get inflated for one game .
I agree with not going after Street. And I'm not sold on Gagne either. His best days are behind him.
Yeah I guess I can see where prolly come from. My spelling is bad. Hmm only 1 letter? Oops. Should have said 2. . Now I know what it means anyway. Thanks for the help.

mark1125
10-26-2008, 09:56 AM
I wouldn't mind picking up Juan Cruz and give him a shot if Zumaya doesn't look sharp/gets hurt or when Rodney collapses.

Nizzle20
10-26-2008, 06:09 PM
I dont want Gagne and not a fan of Street.

I do agree Granderson's average is low too. And there is no way Burnett will be here.

mark1125
10-26-2008, 08:39 PM
I dont want Gagne and not a fan of Street.

I do agree Granderson's average is low too. And there is no way Burnett will be here.

I have a feeling that whoever signs Burnett will be disappointed in the bang for their millions of bucks.

Thames9
10-26-2008, 08:50 PM
Closer is such an overrated position. Just do a closer by committe like Rodney, Zumaya, maybe Seay, Lopez, Dolsi maybe. If that doesn't work out then make an urgent trade to get a closer.

mark1125
10-26-2008, 09:20 PM
Closer is such an overrated position. Just do a closer by committe like Rodney, Zumaya, maybe Seay, Lopez, Dolsi maybe. If that doesn't work out then make an urgent trade to get a closer.

I agree to a point. If you have a Papelbon or Rivera, it is huge. I don't want to see the Tigers shell out huge bucks for K-Rod, but I don't want to go in with the same bunch from last year. Add Juan Cruz and Wil Ohman. Maybe Furentes if the price is decent. 2 of those 3 would be alright with me.

JackB
10-27-2008, 07:38 AM
I believe I read Fuentes is going to want 3 yrs 36 million. Last I heard it would take 3 yrs 45 million to get FRod. Keeping Rodney in as the closer or a CBC will be a disaster. Zumaya may not even be ready . And even if he is he has to work in the minors for at least a couple of months . I still don't trust either guy with the end of the game. You may not want to spend any money on a closer but unless we can steal somebody the hand writing is on the wall.

stanpapi
10-27-2008, 11:00 PM
They've got to find somebody, take a flier on someone, and hope for the best. Zumaya has enough on his plate proving he can still do it. And Rodney, he hasn't been effective for a long time. I don't think Gagne's the answer. I'm talking about getting someone who is improving, someone who might be the closer of the future. I'm tired of seeing guys paid for what they did with another team. And getting into the Street or Gagne business is pretty much that. What I mean is that scouting isn't just about evaluating where a player is at. It's also about figuring out where a player is going -- that's the guy they have to find. Street and Gagne are just more of Sheffield, Pudge, and Willis.

Yes, We Deliver
10-29-2008, 02:28 PM
Rogers needs to retire. I would rather see Garcia get a shot than see Rodney in the role.
Keep in mind that Garcia hasn't even re-signed with Detroit. It might be difficult to pitch to him, "hey, we want you to compete for our closer role" while other teams would just hand him a starting role. Garcia will be a starter, unless he requests otherwise, which won't happen.

Detroit isn't going to spend a ton of money this offseason. I think that's relatively apparent. They'll probably acquire a lot of low-risk talent. Keep in mind that they also have Ryan Perry coming up their system, so they probably won't want to sign a closer to a long-term contract when they'll just be replaced in a year or two.

The only starter that I think could potentially be converted to closer is Bonderman, and I only say that because of his health. Bondo could be the next Kerry Wood or he could be the next Miguel Batista. Nobody knows.

grandy28
10-29-2008, 04:38 PM
why not try to get marte, fuente or even soria threw a trade or even go after john smoltz.he was one of the best closers atlanta ever had, kenny rogers might be good too. you gotta have attitude to be a closer.rodney doesnt have it and zumaya is alwasy hurt,they need to give up on these 2