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SAVAGE CLAW
10-19-2008, 11:24 PM
Has they way David Stern marketed the league since Jordan hurt the younger generations of fans and the game in the Same Way Mtv has spoiled Music?

Ok i Will Explain Myself.

The way Nba is marketed is all about Star power, Big dunks , about made up legends it relies on Brands as gatorade, Espn, Nike etc etc.

They showcase their players as gods, they buy journalists to hype their players.

They state dogmas such as Jordan was the best thing since the Big Mac and no one will ever be better. ( In fact i think he is the goat , but ive seen him play his whole career, i know what im talking about , not repeating a mantra, and im damm sure someone will be better than him someday).

They have lose focus on the game and put it into Flashiness.

If you are not on the Media you are a nobody no matter what you do on the court.

Somehow they have supressed viewers critic vision on the game, they just chew it for you and you have to repeat it blindly.

Thats why there are Legions of Kobe or Lebron Adorers that blindly follow what they do or say no matter if its right or wrong.

While at the same time Rarely you find that kind of followers for a Player like Tim Duncan, because he is not so media oriented so he does not generate the same amount of Love and Hate that Sterns Chosen Player " Puppets" Do.

Young people does not care about fundamentals, just how good did look that dunk or how good do that stats seem.

And the game...how many Jordans wannabes have we to bear? since he retired all of the players Nba focus are Shooting Guards who want to be him, growing up dudes want to be Mj clones, and whats worst they most young generations dont want to clone Mj they want to clone his Clones ( we all know who they are).

When was the last time you catched a good Prospect saying, I want to be like Larry, or I want to be like Dr J or like Magic?

Worst, how many young point guards want to be like Stockton or like Kidd? no they want to be Arenas or Iverson , shoot shoot shoot make the stats, Make the Highlights.


Im comparing this to Mtv, because they have done a similar thing, they have brainwashed kids, back in the 60s and 70s it was about the music, you had a good band you got success your music was good you had success , no matter how awfull you were ( think in Jeff Lyne for example or Patti Smith) or how bad you were dressed ( John " Cougar" Mellencamp anybody)?

But now its all about flashy videos, about being more gangsta that the other gangsta, all pose.

Its about being beautifull and have your hair perfectly modeled into the "voge du jour"

Music does not matter anymore, and they make it all for kids to just consume this months Cd now throw it away and buy a new one.

They Take Kids to play for kids as they grow and after 4 5 years then throw the artist away and get a new one, because the kid fan has grown and does not care for the band anymore and of course new kid wont buy an old record.

Come on what happened to trying to complete your Gratefull Dead collection? or Your Neil Young Collection?

Investigate in the most Obscure singles by the Stones.?


The world is turning into a Fast food, fast Sport idol, Fast Use and then to the trashcan Music world.

Is sad.

Do you agree?

lakers4sho
10-19-2008, 11:45 PM
Yep it's all true...it all comes down to advertising and promotion.

Same goes with Lebron, with Nike and ESPN all over his nuts.

lakers4sho
10-19-2008, 11:46 PM
my bad, I didn't know that people below 28 aren't supposed to respond...

ARMIN12NBA
10-20-2008, 12:00 AM
MTV plays music? I thought it was reality show television...

AntiG
10-20-2008, 12:02 AM
It's also one of the reasons that the US has struggled in international basketball so much over the past decade.

Everyone became so focused on copying MJ's flashiness, they missed out on his, Bird's, Magic's, Barkley's, Drexler's, etc fundamentals and jumpshooting.

obrpunk
10-20-2008, 12:10 AM
well, yes it's true. sports (as well as music) in general have been bought and are owned and operated by corporate entities whos first and only interest is profit. that means packaging people and placing them on shelves. how many players since jordan have held the tiltle of "the next jordan" since mike left the league? hill, stackhouse, tmac, vince carter, kobe, lebron, the list goes on. and as soon as these players are not "the next jordan" they are taken off the self to make room for the next false idol (with the exception of kobe and lebron). and to compare the nba to music, i would say its like the search for the "next nirvana". how many flash in the pan, crap alternative rock bands were overplayed on mtv and FM radio in the mid 90s? without faces to place on the merchandise you dont have the advertisers' interest, and sadly thats who decides who we as a public get to choose from as our flavor of the month. without the advertisers the corporations dont make their money. its all screwed up...

SAVAGE CLAW
10-20-2008, 12:16 AM
^It started a bit earlier, with Hair Bands, ok Guns and Roses were great, Motley Crue were solid but come on!!! Warrant, Poison, Faster Pussycat....anybody who could dress like a Whore and do some noise was aired like crazy on the TV.....

Then when they saw the profit was going lower decided to sweep them all away ( Inlcuding the good bands) and susbstituting them with Seattle "Grunge".

And it ws the same thing Nirvana? Great, Pearl Jam, Awesome Alice in chains? Cool ..... ten thousend i wanna kil myself clones? Yukkkkkk.

And every time goes worst.

Now there arent even good bands out of the Fashion of the week Musical movements ...

You know any Emo band that is good ? yuks...........

I hope that it does not happen with players too...

obrpunk
10-20-2008, 12:19 AM
^It started a bit earlier, with Hair Bands, ok Guns and Roses were great, Motley Crue were solid but come on!!! Warrant, Poison, Faster Pussycat....anybody who could dress like a Whore and do some noise was aired like crazy on the TV.....

your right....i was just picking a genre closer in the time line to Jordans later years in the league when people started asking who the second coming would be....but your absolutly right about the hair band craze of the 80s, lol...what a time...

Max Power
10-20-2008, 12:41 AM
Your argument makes it sound almost as if Jordan wasn't fundamentaly sound because he was "flashy". Which would be completely untrue. Played hard on both ends of the court. Lead his teams to multiple titles. Never missed practice. Made NBA all defensive team 9 times. 5 MVPs. Why wouldn't a player want to be like him?


When was the last time you catched a good Prospect saying, I want to be like Larry, or I want to be like Dr J or like Magic?

Part of that is due to the fact that current group of prospects didn't see any of those players players play in their primes.

For example, Derrick Rose was three when Bird retired. He might of seen some of Magic's final comeback when he was 7-8. But that Magic hardly THE Magic. And Dr. J retired before he was born. Plus, MJ was better than all those guy, as well.

And as far as the marketing end of things, the NBA doesn't control the shoe companies or other companies who hand out endorsement deals. Those companies sign as many young guys as they can in hopes of catching the next big star. Those companies have wasted a good amount of money merely hoping for the next big thing. There are very few sure things, like LeBron when he came into the league. That's why he got the big deals right away.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-20-2008, 12:44 AM
I never said Jordan wasnt Fundamentally sound, check the " next Jordan will come from africa thread".

Max Power
10-20-2008, 12:47 AM
Using MJ as the basis of your arguement, then making statements, such as the following sure implies it:


They have lose focus on the game and put it into Flashiness.


Young people does not care about fundamentals, just how good did look that dunk or how good do that stats seem

If they all wanted to be the next MJ, as you imply, they would, indeed, care about fundamentals.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-20-2008, 12:51 AM
^Trouble is Advertisings didnt care to showcase his fundamnetals just his "air" Dunk from teh free throw line Abilities.

How much fundamentals does he display in Space Jam?

ever played Michael Jordan in flight the Video game?

They had little pills of Jordan, the pills the media wanted them to see.

They should have eaten the Whole Pie.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-20-2008, 12:52 AM
Adn they should have looked into more than 1 player.

Jordan Himself looked for Dr J AND Wilkes ANd Baylor to model his game.

Max Power
10-20-2008, 01:03 AM
^Trouble is Advertisings didnt care to showcase his fundamnetals just his "air" Dunk from teh free throw line Abilities.

How much fundamentals does he display in Space Jam?

ever played Michael Jordan in flight the Video game?

They had little pills of Jordan, the pills the media wanted them to see.

They should have eaten the Whole Pie.

The fundamentals were showcased by watching him play the game of basketball. If players were/are serious about patterning their game after his, that is what they'd do. Not play video games. Not admire 30 second commercials. Not a consider 75 minute cartoon movie a gameplan, but 82 game seasons follwed by how ever many games it took to get 15 wins in the playoffs.

You are putting way too much emphasis on advertisers shaping a players game. That isn't even their intention. If a player is stupid enough to try to follow a cartoon or a commercial in shaping his game, that's his problem, not MJ's(or any other endorser), not a shoe company's, and not the NBA's.

barreleffact
10-20-2008, 01:07 AM
i guess i wont respond since its obvious you dont want an equal/broad/un biased opinion. just saying if you want to understand why something is the way it is, you have to ask the people who are most affected by it. you gotta see the reasons those people want to be like X or play like X or w/e. same with MTV. its easy for an older group to say, hey this and that and we dont like w/e cuza this, but when you were young your parents and elders said the same thing about your generation. just saying... cuz its always good to know what both sides have to say

Max Power
10-20-2008, 01:08 AM
Adn they should have looked into more than 1 player.

Jordan Himself looked for Dr J AND Wilkes ANd Baylor to model his game.

How do know that hey haven't?

Jordan may have followed Ervings path, but i am pretty sure he didn't even know who Baylor was before he got to the NBA. ANd I am not sure which Wilkes you are referring to. Jamaal? MJ's game was nothing at all like his.

SAVAGE CLAW
10-20-2008, 01:10 AM
When i was young i had to go find the music i wanted and didnt rely on press saying it was good or bad to take my decisions.

DreamShaker
10-20-2008, 01:31 AM
I'm too young to post....i'll go sit at the kiddy table now:p

DenButsu
10-20-2008, 02:40 AM
I'm too young to post....i'll go sit at the kiddy table now:p

I'm still :laugh2: at "28" being "old age". You kids can just call this 36-year-old "Grandpa", I guess. And while you're at it, get off my damn lawn!

barreleffact
10-20-2008, 02:46 AM
I'm still :laugh2: at "28" being "old age". You kids can just call this 36-year-old "Grandpa", I guess. And while you're at it, get off my damn lawn!

lol

pete_one
10-20-2008, 02:46 AM
The world is constantly changing. Yeah

Chronz
10-20-2008, 02:55 AM
I dont care what age you are, if you let the media influence your stance on a player or the state of the game, your opinion is close to worthless (Not trying to be rude). Obviously the only way we can be introduced to a sport growing up is through the media but you dont have to be 28 years old to know that the game runs deeper than being a form of entertainment. What the league SELLS is just that, its to attract the people who arent yet hooked on the game. And if you dont understand why the comman man has a special admiration for those high flyers then your a lost cause. I dont see why its such a problem for a league to attract as many fans as possible.

But when it comes to legacies and actual basketball debates, it'll be the true fans who know what theyre talking about. I like the fact that I consider myself to be a part of a group and I love that there are so many that are the same on these boards.



As for the part of this influence having an effect on the actual players growing up, Im sure it does but really doesnt it just make it that more special when a CP3 or Deron does come along to carry the tradition. Its not like they are completely extinct and you would think their coaches and trainers at every level have more of an influence on who they become as players.

Hellcrooner
10-20-2008, 03:09 AM
I agree Mtv Sucks i disagree Mj was the goat.

i agree Media blew out of proportion Jordan.

I disagree Poison was a bad band.

DenButsu
10-20-2008, 03:11 AM
I agree Mtv Sucks i disagree Mj was the goat.

i agree Media blew out of proportion Jordan.

I disagree Poison was a bad band.

Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad (http://usuarios.lycos.es/hardrockbuenosaires/caratulas_cds/caratulas_cds/poison_lookwhatthecatdraggedin_front.jpg).

Hellcrooner
10-20-2008, 03:14 AM
^:d

Chronz
10-20-2008, 04:17 AM
Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad (http://usuarios.lycos.es/hardrockbuenosaires/caratulas_cds/caratulas_cds/poison_lookwhatthecatdraggedin_front.jpg).

What exactly is the media feeding or doing to brainwash us about MJ being the UNDISPUTED GOAT, but also why would this guy be questioning the media for telling us something he finds to be true? Is he the only one allowed to possess this knowledge, anyways the whole MJ is the most hyped up athlete never holds any relevance in his standing as a player, he was the right athlete at the right time but he was the RIGHT ATHLETE.

DenButsu
10-20-2008, 04:45 AM
What exactly is the media feeding or doing to brainwash us about MJ being the UNDISPUTED GOAT, but also why would this guy be questioning the media for telling us something he finds to be true? Is he the only one allowed to possess this knowledge, anyways the whole MJ is the most hyped up athlete never holds any relevance in his standing as a player, he was the right athlete at the right time but he was the RIGHT ATHLETE.

I used to root against the Bulls (except when they played against Utah, SA or LA). I was so damn tired of hearing about them, and specifically of hearing about Jordan.

Jordan was the greatest, in my opinion. He's the GOAT, unsurpassed.

But damn it, following the NBA in the 90s, nobody could be blamed about getting sick of hearing about Jordan. I sure did.

Now, whenever I watched him play, my jaw still hit the floor every damn time. He was, in fact, awe inspiring, and in retrospect it's hard to hold a grudge against the media for being all over his nuts as hard as they were.

But I'm pretty good at holding a grudge sometimes (not a quality to be proud of, I know, but I'll own up to it), so I still kind of do resent the excessive adoration. Sports journalism is never held to the same standards as hard news on politics and business should be, and that just goes with the content and I don't think it should be completely objective because I don't think it can. But there is at least some burden on sports media outlets to try to be at least somewhat balanced in their coverage, and during the peak of his career they really did allow themselves to drown everything else out with Jordan to an excessive and counterproductive degree, in my opinion.

Verbal Christ
10-20-2008, 09:58 AM
The difference IMO between today's youth and yesteryear's is the simple fact that back in the day we actually WANTED to be the best, kick your ***, pick you back up and then do it again. I see players now a days who only want to look good dribbling, have to make sure their shoes and uni's match, have the headband kind of cocked to one side, etc.. etc.. but they cant shoot free throws or make routine passes. Jordan for all the hype would straight up kick your teeth in, simple as that. Players today just want to shine, even if they dont score a single point. damn shame.

barreleffact
10-20-2008, 11:01 AM
The difference IMO between today's youth and yesteryear's is the simple fact that back in the day we actually WANTED to be the best, kick your ***, pick you back up and then do it again. I see players now a days who only want to look good dribbling, have to make sure their shoes and uni's match, have the headband kind of cocked to one side, etc.. etc.. but they cant shoot free throws or make routine passes. Jordan for all the hype would straight up kick your teeth in, simple as that. Players today just want to shine, even if they dont score a single point. damn shame.

old man...you are obviously talking about scrubs. most people care about winning. the few that are lucky enough to make it to the league definately do. idc about some scrubs taht are limited and play on the street. apparently they arent doin anything, unless they make it to and1, but as a whole people in the league want to win. that mentality is really horrible. how many people do we have to compare to jordan before you realize that people still want to be the best? even if you are talking about limited players in the league, most players have designated roles. for instance an analyst a few days ago was talking about kyle korver. he said how in college he had this complete game and could do sooo much more than the kyle korver you see today. thats because they have more freedom at that level and once the competition gets steeper(nba) you have to become a specialist if you want to keep your job.

AtlFANATIC
10-20-2008, 11:19 AM
Great post Savage Claw......you are sooooooo right. I cringe watching today's version of the NBA because it IS ALL ABOUT BRANDING. Carmelo complains if he doesn't get the ball 20+ times a game etc. It's all about Branding and what shoe company you can look good for. Jordan was the best ever(to no fault of his own), but he was so damn good, that the shoes he wore turned into gold. He is partly to blame because he was soooo dammnnn good. Unfortunately though, Nike and others may as well be jockeys. They are just riding the coattails of the athletes. This is turn makes the NBA completely disfunctional and very boring. God forbid teams could get a show deal or an espn commercial for playing good defense.

ramansingh3
10-20-2008, 11:28 AM
For one their is advertising in everything these days and of course all major sports. Also refering to Kobe Bryant and LeBron James as MJ clone wannabees you are strongly mistaken. LeBron James game is completely different than Michael Jordans. LeBron is a Small Forward Jordan was a Shooting Guard, LeBron took is team to the finals with no supporting cast of what Jordan had like Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, Robert Parish. I do agree with you that the media hypes players as being the next MJ, but players can only play and do their job if they are a 6-6 shooting guard who has good fundamentals with a bit of flash, whats wrong with that? What you consider flash is just part of what the game is today, people in the 50's thought that putting the ball through your legs was flash but it came to be regular in the game even before Jordan. What about Magic and the Showtime Lakers people considered that flash, but he got the job done he won titles and took his team over the top.

DenButsu
10-20-2008, 11:40 AM
Carmelo complains if he doesn't get the ball 20+ times a game

Link, please. :eyebrow:

philab
10-20-2008, 11:45 AM
From about 1998-2005, I'd agree with you on most points here. The league was dealing with the strike, the loss of Jordan, the influx of HS age players who often weren't ready, the "thug" image, an increasingly slowed-down, lower scoring game, and finally, the brawl. Some of these issues were of their own making, but others weren't. The league was desperately looking for a marketable superstar to assume Jordan's throne, but there just wasn't much there. Iverson and Kobe were the closest, but Iverson's "40 bars" and Kobe in Shaq's shadow made it hard.

Today, I think things are WAY, WAY different. The league has moved way past the strike and mostly past the brawl, two of the worst PR moments of its history. There's still no Jordan, but there are a TON of young, exciting, marketable players today. LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Howard, Rose, Beasley, Oden, Durant, Mayo, Paul, Williams, Bosh, Stoudemire, Parker. Throw in some of the older guys, Duncan, Nash, Nowitzki, Ginobli, Kobe, Arenas, Davis, Yao, McGrady, and you have a lot of talent there. Sure, LeBron is forced down your throat, but at least he's lived up to the hype about as much as one can.

Basketball has become an international game now and doesn't even have to compete with soccer, being a winter sport (although in Australia, Brazil, and Argentina, things might be different). The one-and-done college rule has helped the NBA. The next big superstars are already household names when they enter the league. Who really knew anything about McGrady or Garnett when they hit the league? Now, everyone knows who Rose, Beasley, and Mayo are. (The NCAA can complain all they want, btw, but it helps them too. NONE of these guys would have even sniffed a college court otherwise.) New rules have allowed for faster-paced, higher-scoring, and ultimately more exciting games. Finally, Stern has tried to combat the "thug" image. Personally, I couldn't care less how players dressed, but I'm sure many do. I do find problems in numerous arrests, on-court fights, and the like, but it seems like these things happen less these days.

Do you ever go the gym and play basketball? It's not all LeBron, Kobe, LeBron, Kobe. People follow the game now. Everyone loves Chris Paul, and frankly, he's a great player to idolize. There's always talk of D-Ho, Pierce, Nash, Garnett, Davis, and, yes, LeBron and Kobe. These are great players and many of them do not fit into the mold you described. Partly due to Stern (and partly despite his incompetence) and mostly due to luck, the NBA is getting a lot more exciting. The growth of the NBA has really just begun, too. It'll be interesting to see where the league can go with this.

rrude
10-20-2008, 11:45 AM
It's weird that people are taking this post as a dis to MJ. The point is that MJ was such a huge star, NBA wanted to try to keep the ball rolling after him. So they manufactured a bunch of pseudo-stars in the '90's, anointing dudes as franchise players before they ever played a game in the NBA. here's a couple examples: Marbury and Eddie Jones. Now both of these guys are decent players in their own way, but you'd of thought Jesus was being drafted when they came out. In Marbury's case, I think the over-hyping ruined his career. He never figured out that he wasn't THAT good. And has been carrying an MJ ego ever since.

I actually think they have toned this stuff down in the last few years. They don't reach for guys to make into stars in quite the same way. Yeah, LBJ was hyped, but he's the real deal. Durant/Oden didn't get the treatment that those guys did back in the '90's. I think the NBA learned a lesson. You don't want to market and hype players before they show their true colors in the league. I think the Palace brawl took a lot of wind out and the league wants to be careful who the face players are.

(no dis to Ron, 'cause I am a big fan).

philab
10-20-2008, 11:58 AM
The difference IMO between today's youth and yesteryear's is the simple fact that back in the day we actually WANTED to be the best, kick your ***, pick you back up and then do it again. I see players now a days who only want to look good dribbling, have to make sure their shoes and uni's match, have the headband kind of cocked to one side, etc.. etc.. but they cant shoot free throws or make routine passes. Jordan for all the hype would straight up kick your teeth in, simple as that. Players today just want to shine, even if they dont score a single point. damn shame.


I'm confused. Are we talking about the NBA here or are we talking about players at your local gym?

In the NBA, this just isn't true. LeBron, Paul, Wade, Howard, Rose, Durant -- these guys only want to look good? No, these players want to be the best. Sure, no one wants to get posterized, so players step out of the way of a dunk, but c'mon, that's not a big deal. In the '80s players didn't challenge half the layups or dunks down low.

At the gym, there's a bunch of players like you described. They're mostly just guys who weren't good enough to make it past HS basketball (and probably for a lot of the reasons listed in your post), but still think they're hot ****. It's certainly not everyone, though, and it doesn't really have much to do with basketball. You see these types everywhere.

Wilson
10-20-2008, 12:02 PM
Your argument makes it sound almost as if Jordan wasn't fundamentaly sound because he was "flashy". Which would be completely untrue. Played hard on both ends of the court. Lead his teams to multiple titles. Never missed practice. Made NBA all defensive team 9 times. 5 MVPs. Why wouldn't a player want to be like him?


I think the point being made is that people watch the NBA, then they see all the commercials, then they go to the park and try to pull off whatever Kobe, LeBron or Wade did last night. How many kids do you see trying to imitate Duncans footwork? Do you see a group trying to imitate Boston's team defense?

So kids would have seen everything Jordan did on the floor, but they wouldn't have gone outside and practised everything he did, just the flashy stuff.

Not all the blame can go to the media though. If your going through the student-athlete path in the States, there should be plenty of coaches there to teach you all the other stuff.

Wilson
10-20-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm confused. Are we talking about the NBA here or are we talking about players at your local gym?

In the NBA, this just isn't true. LeBron, Paul, Wade, Howard, Rose, Durant -- these guys only want to look good? No, these players want to be the best. Sure, no one wants to get posterized, so players step out of the way of a dunk, but c'mon, that's not a big deal. In the '80s players didn't challenge half the layups or dunks down low.

At the gym, there's a bunch of players like you described. They're mostly just guys who weren't good enough to make it past HS basketball (and probably for a lot of the reasons listed in your post), but still think they're hot ****. It's certainly not everyone, though, and it doesn't really have much to do with basketball. You see these types everywhere.

Yes it is. lol.

AntiG
10-20-2008, 12:16 PM
If they all wanted to be the next MJ, as you imply, they would, indeed, care about fundamentals.

No, many of these players copied MJ's commercialized talent and ignored most of his understated ones.

MJ's fundamentals were excellent.

But what do people think of when they remember MJ?

- Ridiculous athletic dunks
- Ridiculous athletic layups
- last second juke and turn around shots flying through the air
- Tongue wagging
- Wannabe like Mike commercials
- That semi-gay Hanes underwear commercial with Cuba Gooding

SteveNash
10-20-2008, 03:33 PM
Here are some of the reasons why I think the game has declined in the mind of viewers:

-SportsCenter, there was a good article I read some time ago that went into details about SC ruining the game. How it got focused on the highlights of players instead of commending players for the fundamentals. Which led to younger players trying to get on SC instead of winning games.

-NBPA and NBA Owners, now I'm never against players getting their money, and am one of the few who thinks players should be getting more, but there was definitely a negative effect by the way they handled things. From taking to long to take advange of the NBA boom which pissed off vetrans who were locked up in contracts while guys like Jon Koncak are getting huge deals. Or not coming to an agreement leading to the lockout in '99 immediately after Jordan retired.

-Becoming a Jordan league, hyping him above all else even when his career was winding down. Being unprepared with what to do when he was gone.

-Being a mostly black league still leads to racism by fans. When Allen Iverson went to the cornrows and tats the league went from an MC Hammer style of rap to Tupac.

-NBC switch to ABC/ESPN which was horrible and can be documented here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_on_ABC#Criticisms.7FUNIQ600767df6b7757d0-nowiki-0000002B-QINU.7F4.7FUNIQ600767df6b7757d0-nowiki-0000002C-QINU.7F

-Small/Young markets being successful. Knicks were a mess and no one cared about New Jersey, San Antonio is small and boring, Miami was a new an up and coming star, until they completely fell off the map, etc.

Most of this stuff I really wouldn't blame David Stern on as he really doesn't have that much power.

philab
10-20-2008, 05:19 PM
Yes it is. lol.

It's not what I'd like to see, but if that's the only problem it's not big deal.

It'll likely just be a foul if someone did challenge it.

In the playoffs or at the end of a game, it's a different situation and players do challenge it. In the second quarter of game 35, though, it's just an unnecessary injury risk half the time.

philab
10-20-2008, 05:35 PM
Here are some of the reasons why I think the game has declined in the mind of viewers:

-SportsCenter, there was a good article I read some time ago that went into details about SC ruining the game. How it got focused on the highlights of players instead of commending players for the fundamentals. Which led to younger players trying to get on SC instead of winning games.

-NBPA and NBA Owners, now I'm never against players getting their money, and am one of the few who thinks players should be getting more, but there was definitely a negative effect by the way they handled things. From taking to long to take advange of the NBA boom which pissed off vetrans who were locked up in contracts while guys like Jon Koncak are getting huge deals. Or not coming to an agreement leading to the lockout in '99 immediately after Jordan retired.

-Becoming a Jordan league, hyping him above all else even when his career was winding down. Being unprepared with what to do when he was gone.

-Being a mostly black league still leads to racism by fans. When Allen Iverson went to the cornrows and tats the league went from an MC Hammer style of rap to Tupac.

-NBC switch to ABC/ESPN which was horrible and can be documented here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_on_ABC#Criticisms.7FUNIQ600767df6b7757d0-nowiki-0000002B-QINU.7F4.7FUNIQ600767df6b7757d0-nowiki-0000002C-QINU.7F

-Small/Young markets being successful. Knicks were a mess and no one cared about New Jersey, San Antonio is small and boring, Miami was a new an up and coming star, until they completely fell off the map, etc.

Most of this stuff I really wouldn't blame David Stern on as he really doesn't have that much power.


This was all definitely true 5 and 10 years ago, but today I think it's completely different (except for ESPN/ABC being ******). Even with the Knicks being horrible, the league is in a much better place.

Seriously, think of all the franchises with young franchise players to build around. Of course teams like the Celtics, Lakers, and Rockets don't have young players, but they're good already.

Knicks, Nets, Pacers, Kings, Bucks, TWolves, Clippers, Bobcats. Those are the only teams I can think of without a real "franchise" player, and some of those are iffy (Redd, Harris, Love, Davis on their respective teams).

SAVAGE CLAW
10-20-2008, 08:52 PM
Sports Center culture, that is the problem

JJ_JKidd
10-20-2008, 09:36 PM
Its all about money. The world is all about money. The sucking of the economy was brought about by greed for money.

Screw em.