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View Full Version : Howard makes the Nuggets; 5 others cut (article in post #43)



DenButsu
10-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Now that we've seen some preseason games, who do you think should be signed or cut?

chaugh970
10-18-2008, 10:08 PM
assuming we can keep 3, i say keep Cleeves, Howard, and Patterson.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
10-18-2008, 10:33 PM
anyone as long as we dont sign patterson.

BRAVE KID
10-18-2008, 10:35 PM
assuming we can keep 3, i say keep Cleeves, Howard, and Patterson.I believe that may be it there. I want howard and patterson (I still believe he can give us solid D) on the team for sure.

DenButsu
10-18-2008, 10:53 PM
There are only two open spots.

The 13 already on the roster: Melo, AI, K, Nene, JR, LK, Chucky, AC, Birdman, Balkman, Hunter, Jones, Weems.

Juwon should definitely get signed, imho. I really do not want to see Patterson get signed, though. He's a basketcase. I like his energy at times, but he doesn't always know how to direct it (see totally ****ing stupid technical in a preseason game that almost lost the game for us the other day). It's not that he wouldn't have anything to offer, it's that he introduces an element of instability into the locker room that definitely doesn't need to be there.

I'd be fine with just Howard. Leave one spot open. We can always sign someone later. Maybe see who gets waived by other teams.

avsman05
10-19-2008, 12:51 AM
I'm in agreeance with most people here Howard and Patterson. Remember what Patterson did for us before we traded him hes a hustler and a good role player we need that.

JO/<ERô
10-19-2008, 02:29 AM
Please god not Patterson, I agree he is a basket case and his defensive skills are not what they used to be.

F15Eagle
10-19-2008, 02:56 PM
I like Paterson, Smush Parker,Cleaves and Howard. Paterson is a must. He will together with Balkman erase the no defense image. Teams will no longer dream of attacking the Nuggets's small forward position. Melo will have defenders that can and will help show him how to guard people. Ruben Patterson has the intensity, energy, physique, and has game. Afterall, he is the Kobe stopper !!!! He is what the Nuggets need. He needs to keep working himself into game shape after 1 yr layoff. Howard should work himself into game shape, He may help the Nuggets in rebounding. Smush Parker and Cleaves are not bad and should be given serious considerations.Fazekas and Mays can improve and should be kept around in the D-league. Patterson is the one !!!!

DJiC
10-19-2008, 03:02 PM
just keep howard cut the rest....patterson is not the kobe stopper...at his age kobe would prob drop 90 on patterson.....parker/cleaves/patterson/fazekas are players that arent even worth signing...the only person out of those 4 that would get signed is parker and that would be if every pg on a team gets injured i.e. clips last year they lost livingston/cassel so they went out and got him but other than that we should only be keeping howard

F15Eagle
10-19-2008, 03:38 PM
Howard is older than Patterson. Patterson is the Kobe stopper!!!!! He can guard Kobe anytime anywhere. He will make the team. I like Howard but, his numbers with Dallas is anemic. He was used occasionally and contributed little. I hope he contributes more for the Nuggets. La might not have been a favorable environment for Smush Parker. He never played along side a combo guard like Iverson (the best). Cleaves is not bad.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
10-19-2008, 04:12 PM
I'm pretty sick of pre-season...

eman
10-19-2008, 04:29 PM
I am glad someone other than myself has noticed Mateen Cleaves. I thought I must have been seeing things, but he does bring steadiness, court awareness, a halfway decent outside shot and good defense. I know it is only preseason but he looks better to me than AC and that is without a heathy AI to make things just that much more easier. I think chaugh970 has it right, I think we keep all three as I also think that the guaranteed contracts are not set in stone, especially with Hunter and Chucky nursing injuries.

BRAVE KID
10-19-2008, 04:48 PM
since Karl isn't going to bother playing Hunter get rid of him, and with chucky it isn't any better.

BRAVE KID
10-19-2008, 04:53 PM
I like Paterson, Smush Parker,Cleaves and Howard. Paterson is a must. He will together with Balkman erase the no defense image. Teams will no longer dream of attacking the Nuggets's small forward position. Melo will have defenders that can and will help show him how to guard people. Ruben Patterson has the intensity, energy, physique, and has game. Afterall, he is the Kobe stopper !!!! He is what the Nuggets need. He needs to keep working himself into game shape after 1 yr layoff. Howard should work himself into game shape, He may help the Nuggets in rebounding. Smush Parker and Cleaves are not bad and should be given serious considerations.Fazekas and Mays can improve and should be kept around in the D-league. Patterson is the one !!!!I completely agree with you, him and balkman are the defensive stoppers that we need and that Karl is actually going to put out there, we had two defensive stoppers last year but karl didn't want to put in bobby jones or diawara, these two are better. These two are going to help immensely with the perimeter defense.

chaugh970
10-19-2008, 07:12 PM
i feel you eman. Cleaves has played extremely well. He plays tough hard nosed defense, makes smart passes, isnt afraid to score,he's bulky and has some size.

DJiC
10-19-2008, 11:03 PM
theres a reason why patterson didnt play for a full year....cause noone wants him...atleast with howard he'll give us a PF with patterson were going to play a 6 people SG/SF rotation? we already have smith/melo/kleiza/balkman/jones/ai so with patterson he's totally expendable and wont be used at all

DenButsu
10-20-2008, 01:24 AM
he looks better to me than AC

Ah, the lofty standards the Denver Nuggets have of their point guards...

Not to bag on Cleaves, he has done better than I'd been expecting him to.

But when the best selling point he's got is "better than Anthony Carter", what does that really say? :shrug:

DJiC
10-20-2008, 01:34 AM
it says the nuggets at the pg spot are as good as the grizzles at the PF spot....absolutely PATHETIC

C-Dub
10-20-2008, 07:04 PM
we should keep howard and smush or cleaves, get rid of atkins

DenButsu
10-20-2008, 09:56 PM
we should keep howard and smush or cleaves, get rid of atkins

How would you propose getting rid of Chucky? Buying him out?

C-Dub
10-20-2008, 10:20 PM
idk, i just want him gone, trade him or something, maybe sign and trade one of the people and add Hunter too for a really descent PG, lol, just get rid of him

DJiC
10-21-2008, 02:17 AM
well thats why the proposed trade of tinsley for atkins/hunter came up...but our FO is ********

DenButsu
10-21-2008, 09:15 PM
well thats why the proposed trade of tinsley for atkins/hunter came up...but our FO is ********

Why, because they want to insist on the inclusion of a pick and/or $3 million in the deal? That's the very least we should expect as an antidote to the potential locker room poison that Tinsley is...

C-Dub
10-21-2008, 09:53 PM
idk, i just think if we dont use atkins or hunter then maybe we should get rid of them for someone we will use, thats all, there is no reason to have them except to fill the roster and the trainers table

DenButsu
10-21-2008, 11:20 PM
idk, i just think if we dont use atkins or hunter then maybe we should get rid of them for someone we will use, thats all, there is no reason to have them except to fill the roster and the trainers table

A couple things about this:

Tinsley is the greater financial liability. Chucky at least comes off the books next summer, and Hunter the summer after that. Tinsley has 3 years left on his contract, and his contract will be virtually impossible to move if we pick him up (look at how much difficulty Indiana is having doing it now).

Tinsley is just as great an injury liability as Chucky, although probably not as much as Hunter. If we don't make this deal, we could probably still dump off Chucky's expiring at the deadline to a team looking to cut salary, but if we pick up Tinsley and he goes down, we're totally stuck. Getting him for Atkins and Hunter maintains our injury risk while decreasing our flexibility.

And more importantly than all of the above: locker room, locker room, locker room. By all accounts, he's a total cancer. The risk just isn't worth the reward, especially since the reward is nothing to write home about in the first place (he's just a terrible shooter).

DJiC
10-21-2008, 11:37 PM
hey if we have less injured players we spend less money on trainer tables...so we can give them the 3mil or give them a second rd pick i mean honostly why keep people we dont use?

DenButsu
10-22-2008, 12:11 AM
hey if we have less injured players we spend less money on trainer tables...so we can give them the 3mil or give them a second rd pick i mean honostly why keep people we dont use?


Pretty much because...

3 Pacers Involved in Bar Fight
The Associated Press
Wednesday, February 7, 2007; 6:25 PM (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/07/AR2007020701156.html)
(then later they avoided (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3297721) a trial)

Sunday, March 23, 2008
Knee to reportedly keep Tinsley out for rest of season (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3308826&type=story)

Sunday, December 9, 2007
Pacers' Tinsley was target; equipment manager suffered gunshot wounds (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3147811&type=story)

Pacers' Tinsley misses fourth straight game
Jan. 4, 2008
CBSSports.com wire reports (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10559165)

Report: Tinsley hires security guard after third incident in 14 months
ESPN.com news services
Updated: December 16, 2007, 8:48 AM ET (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3157018)


Seriously, this guy's pretty much nothing but bad news.

The Pacers are refusing (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/playerNews?categoryId=71252) to buy him out, but they're also refusing to let him in the locker room:



That right there should tell you everything you need to know about why he shouldn't be welcome in our locker room, either. Trouble follows the guy wherever he goes, both injury trouble and behavioral trouble.

We just got J.R. on track. Let's not mess with that. :smoking:

:cool:

DenButsu
10-22-2008, 12:12 AM
Or in other words, because a little dead weight is less harmful (its uselessness being annoying but benign) than a whole lotta cancer.

DJiC
10-22-2008, 12:45 AM
well half of those reports are like him as a target isnt it? i mean maybe im reading it wrong but equipment suffer gunshot wound and tinsley is the target, and he hires a security gaurd for protection so from the 2 that i see arent exactly showing he's a cancer...granted the bar fight isnt exactly a good thing but look at all the pacers who were in the det brawl change of scenery did them good jackson is starting to play to his potential and artest just landed in the best situation he could possibly land in....

DenButsu
10-22-2008, 12:58 AM
well half of those reports are like him as a target isnt it? i mean maybe im reading it wrong but equipment suffer gunshot wound and tinsley is the target, and he hires a security gaurd for protection so from the 2 that i see arent exactly showing he's a cancer...granted the bar fight isnt exactly a good thing but look at all the pacers who were in the det brawl change of scenery did them good jackson is starting to play to his potential and artest just landed in the best situation he could possibly land in....

Well, don't just take my word for it, then. Go read the Pacers forum and see what the fans there have to say about him. They just can't wait to be rid of him. Being on the receiving end of a trade involving a player like that is almost never a good thing.

Bottom line for me, behavioral/attitude issues aside: He just not that much better than Anthony Carter, but he's six times as expensive, and his contract is three years longer, so why bother? :shrug:

We can do better if we just want to find a way to dump off Chucky and Hunter, and we can do better (albeit probably not until next summer) in the way of a point guard for our future.

DJiC
10-22-2008, 01:03 AM
kinda wish we got artest last season or kinda wish we traded for kg when the twolves shopped him

DenButsu
10-22-2008, 01:37 AM
kinda wish we got artest last season or kinda wish we traded for kg when the twolves shopped him

I don't really regret the Artest thing much. I still doubt we'd have gotten past the Lakers (although we might have at least won a game or two :cool: ), and then he'd have gone FA and we'd be minus two assets (LK and Eddie) instead of one (only Eddie).

Hard to say about KG... I have no idea what we'd have had to give up for him, but I'm sure it would have been bigtime.

DJiC
10-22-2008, 01:51 AM
maybe kleiza,nene,eddie? not sure i would have loved to see the nuggets have attempt a trade for him or atleast hear a rumor of a trade for him......i think artest couldve easily replaced kleiza and well eddies gone so ya

DenButsu
10-22-2008, 01:56 AM
maybe kleiza,nene,eddie? not sure i would have loved to see the nuggets have attempt a trade for him or atleast hear a rumor of a trade for him......i think artest couldve easily replaced kleiza and well eddies gone so ya

My main worry about Artest was that he's a flight risk. We get into the playoffs and go out in the first round, is he really sticking around for more, or is he opting out and chasing a ring?

DJiC
10-22-2008, 02:30 AM
well i guess we found our answer right? he stayed with the kings, but then they traded him so ya

DenButsu
10-22-2008, 04:38 AM
well i guess we found our answer right? he stayed with the kings, but then they traded him so ya

But the guy ain't exactly mentally stable. He must have reversed his position on whether he'd opt out or not at least 20 times last season.

At least. It was ridiculous. Every week - hell, more than once a week - he'd go, "Nah, I'm not gonna opt out." - "Nah, I'm gonna opt out." - "Nah, I'm not gonna opt out." It would have been a hell of a gamble.

b_rock007
10-23-2008, 07:25 AM
I haven't been able to see any games but the indian wells one.
I have been reading the box scores and liking what I see from smush parker. Maybe he is someone who can fill our point guard void?

eman
10-23-2008, 09:56 AM
I wish I would've put this up earlier as I would've looked prophetic but GK has decided to start Dahntay Jones in Carmelo's absence for the first two games. This is a trend that I was noticing throughout the preseason as DJ started half of the games at the 2 or the 3 and played significant minutes in all. GK says he wants a defensive minded player in the starting lineup prefering to have the offensive minded JR and LK in their usual roles off the bench. As for who is going to be cut I don't think any of the non-guaranteed pgs is going to make it and we are going to have to get ready for a whole lot of AC especially with AI ailing (sorry I couldn't resist the pun). Don't think at this late date that the FO can swing a trade for Tinsley especially with their laundry list of demands. Juwan Howard probably will be retained as RB and the Birdman had late preseason injuries and with SH out the Nuggets need another big body.

One other thought I think the offense will start out with the ball in Carmelo's hands more with him playing more of a point forward role ala Scottie Pippen just something I also noticed in the short clips of the games I have seen.

BkOriginalOne
10-23-2008, 04:51 PM
That answers that, the only player to make the team was Howard. Still one spot open... I bet their saving for a pg.

DJiC
10-23-2008, 06:15 PM
see didnt i tell you EVERYONE but howard got cut...told you cleaves/parker/patterson/fazekas are not people we need...we need a PG who is big enough to pressure the other team PG making them TO and etc....

C-Dub
10-23-2008, 09:36 PM
hmm, no smush or cleaves, i wonder what they are gonna do then.....Chauncey! LOL, JK

Big R
10-23-2008, 10:08 PM
we cut smush? :(

DenButsu
10-23-2008, 11:08 PM
Nuggets keep Juwon Howard, cut Smush Parker, Ruben Patterson, Mateen Cleaves, Nick Fazekas, James Mays


Nick Fazekas, a 6-foot-11 forward from Ralston Valley High School, is expected to be among the five players the Denver Nuggets cut on Thursday.

The cuts mean that veteran center Juwan Howard made the team's 14-man regular-season roster. Howard, who played for Denver in 2001-03, is trying to resurrect his NBA career.

The other players cut were swing man Ruben Patterson, who played for the Nuggets in 2006; guards Smush Parker and Mateen Cleaves; and forward James Mays.

Fazekas, who played collegiately at Nevada, appeared in four preseason games, averaging 2.0 points and 2.5 rebounds.

Patterson played in six preseason games, averaging 7.3 points, 1.8 rebounds and 1.2 assists. In four games, Parker averaged 5.3 points, 3.3 assists and 1.3 rebounds. Cleaves, in five games, averaged 3.4 points, 2.0 rebounds and 2.0 assists, and Mays, in two games, averaged 4.5 points and 3.5 rebounds.

The Nuggets roster now stands at 14 players.rocky (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/23/hometown-boy-fazekas-among-nuggets-cuts-howard-mak/)


I really like this move. Howard, imho, was the only one worth keeping. Smush and Ruben might have some skills, but they've also got some issues, and this team doesn't need any more of those (same reason I don't want Tinsley). Howard is a very solid acquisition, veteran presence, can really shoot (unlike practically everyone else at the 4-5), and can pull down some boards. I don't know how the minutes break down exactly, but Melo/K/Nene/LK/Balk/Bird/Howard is a pretty damn tight frontcourt. Hopefully with a (non-Tinsley) trade before the deadline, using Chucky/Hunter/TE, we can reinforce the backcourt as well. That's probably one reason why Karl is testing Jones, so he and the FO can measure him up to see if he can be a legit part of that reinforcement or not.

DJiC
10-24-2008, 12:25 AM
lets trade chucky/hunter/TE for chauncey...end of story its a done deal....smush should change his name to smudge and patterson was just straight up fat and old...i cant believe we brought him back same with shawn kemp 1 or 2 years ago....they are over the hill...i saw the live nuggets camp on nba tv and howard look FANTASTIC....while the others looked like they were walking up and down the court

C-Dub
10-24-2008, 07:28 AM
haha, i love chauncey, i dont think the pistons would let him go for those players though, but anything can happen

he would pretty much be perfect for us, a little bigger and stronger, good shooter and good defender, end of story, great assist man too

Big R
10-24-2008, 07:47 AM
nooooooooooooooooo


smush and iverson would of been the greatest backcourt this league has ever seen :mad:

DenButsu
10-24-2008, 09:11 AM
smush and iverson would of been the greatest backcourt this league has ever seen :mad:

No.

I'm sorry, but no.


Now AI and JR, on the other hand, that could be something special, if Karl allows it to be.

TheFuture6
10-24-2008, 10:05 AM
The other players cut were... Smush Parker

Thank god. :D