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jimbobjarree
10-13-2008, 02:58 PM
Hello all.

I messed up the title, I mean the 2009 FA lol

I was bored and was just checking into that cap situation again. I dont know if we've been through this or not, but here is my understanding.

we are definatly committed to pay $44,391,201 next season to AK, Harpring, Deron, CJ, Brewer and Kosta.

We have options on Almond and Fess. I'm presuming we pick up our option on Almond, and not on Fess, which means we gain an extra 1,156,920. Bringing our grand total to $45,548,121.

Next comes re-signing. We lose the contracts of Collins, Knight, Price, Millsap, Gabe Muoneke, Gerry McNamara and Kevin Lyde (if someone could tell me about the last 3 I'd love to know who they actually are, I think I've heard of Lyde. This is a definate cut of $7,298,225, and thank god Collins is gone. We will need to re-sign Price and Millsap out of these IMO and let the others walk (maybe re-sign Brevin on a 1 year min if he plays well)

Now on to the players opting out. Carlos Boozer the main talking point. How big a contract will he ask for? How long will he sign? Boozer will most likely opt out and recieve a much higher deal, but will we fork out for it.

Will Memo opt out? I really dont see him making any more than $9,000,000 anywhere else (which he is guarenteed next season if he stays with the Jazz). Is he the most likely to not opt out of his contract? And Kyle Korver, will anyone pay Korver more than $5,163,636 which he is guaranteed next season with our Jazz.

IMO opinion there is a chance of Memo not opting out, especially if he sees Koufos playing well. I really want Koufos to do well this season and eventually take over from Memo so this may be good. If he opts out though the main focus will be Booz.

So assuming we pick up our option on Almond we have a total salary of $45,548,121, which is still roughly $13,200,000 under the cap. so to re-sign Boozer, Memo, Korver, Price and Millsap we would have roughly a total of $25,601,879 to spend on those 5 before going over the luxury tax, which was set at $71.15m this season.

A max contract for a player who has been in the NBA 7 years (which will be Boozer) will be $16,509,600 (http://crashingthegoalie.com/2008/09/19/nba-nhl-max-min-salaries/) which I'm not sure Miami will have considering they are roughly 15 million over the cap with only Marion coming off the books next season (but please Miami fans come in and correct me if I'm wrong). We really then cant afford to sign Memo on for more money, and nobody else will offer him that type of money which means my guess would be that he opts to stay on, and these two alone take us up to the luxury tax.

We then cant let Millsap walk, we just cant....and I wonder how much he will want anyway, 4/5mil?

Korver, a very important piece will have to be let go as well, though hopefully CJ will be firing on all cylinders by then...but what happens if he opts to stay here and we go over the luxury tax, and larry doesnt want to pay for that?

Another question as well, would Larry Miller be prepared to go over the luxury tax for one season when Harprings 6.5 million comes off the books?

Personally, I really only see this as we either re-sign all our FAs and let Boozer walk, or re-sign Boozer and either Memo or Korver/Millsap/Price.

and what about our second rounders from this season, when do we start paying them, Tomic could be a handy player in this league IMO.

....or we trade AK for cap space and we can keep our core together, Slaon isnt even starting him this season, we really shouldnt let our sixth man screw us over with cap hell...the Bulls didnt let it happen. But the argument is this is our best team for a long time and we should keep it together this year at least with a crack at the championship.

....or Miller accepts that to have a winning team we have to go over the luxury tax threshhold, we keep out core together for 2 more seasons when we let AK walk if he hasnt been traded by then, and we have our top 5 pick from the Knicks and we sign Deron for life.

oh contracts I got were from http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm

Robbw241
10-13-2008, 03:28 PM
Orly!!!

jimbobjarree
10-13-2008, 04:21 PM
yeah scary isnt it.

I'm waiting for HotRod to come in and say everything will be fine....

futureman
10-13-2008, 04:53 PM
If we lose boozer and become a really crappy team we can pull a boston in 2010.

Trade#1
Send AK and his expiring 18 million dollar deal along with New Yorks Draft Pick to Orlando for a hopefully disgruntled dwight howard.

Trade #2
Send our High draft pick along with the rest of the team except for D-will to Sacramento for Kevin Martin.

jimbobjarree
10-13-2008, 04:56 PM
what about Amare. We will have some decent cap for the 2010 season. And will Amare want to re-sign with the Suns? They wont have any decent players...Nash will be very old and Shaq should have retired by then. Re-sign with them, or play with one of the best young point guards in the league with a shot at a championship...no brainer!

THE_FLASH_21
10-13-2008, 05:29 PM
Good stuff Jimbobjarrre... I agree with ur post!!

1. I think the Jazz shouldn't go over the cap with the same team
2. Okur will opt out, but will probably resgin
3. Milsap will probably want to start somewhere else, or on less we bring out the bills
4. Boozer should. but would he resign with the jazz??? I can't wait to find out!!
5. 15 million dollars for a 6th man??? it's a joke!!!!

jimbobjarree
10-13-2008, 05:32 PM
I think we make a mistake if we re-sign Okur for more money, is he worth it, I mean sometimes he doesn't show up to playoff games (I know Boozer doesnt either, but still)

I'm gunna miss Millie next season :(

Lo Porto
10-13-2008, 06:08 PM
This all looks right. Here is what I think happens:

Boozer opts out and re-signs with Utah for about $15 a year (raise of $3-4 million)
Okur does NOT opt out thus costing us $9 million.
Korver does NOT opt out this costing us around $11 million for 2 years.
Either Price or Knight or both will not return.

Here is how the salaries shake out:
AK $16.5
Deron $15
Harpring $6.5
Korver $5.2
CJ $3.7
Brewer $2.7
Koufos $1.2
Almond $1.2
Fesenko $.9

That's just under $52 million for 9 players. Add in Boozer ($15), Okur ($9), Millsap ($6 million if we are lucky) and Price or Knight or another PG ($2). That would be $83 million. That is about $13 million over the luxury tax. We could probably trade Harp pretty easily since he would be in the last year, but what help would that be? If you look at the numbers, roster and everything else, the answer is obvious - AK can be replaced on the court (with Harp, CJ and Korver) and dumping his salary would put us at the cap number we have to be at. TRADE AK to MEMPHIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

Lo Porto
10-13-2008, 06:13 PM
AK is the eye sore of this situation. If he's not good enough to start (don't get me the "spark off the bench" excuse), then he needs to go. I'd love him off the bench for $10 million or less a year. But he doesn't make that. If we lose Millsap because we weren't willing to trade AK, we are going to regret it in a big way.

In my opinion, all these guys are more important to the present and future of the Jazz because their position, their impact, their potential and their cost to value ratio:

Deron
Boozer
Millsap
Okur
Brewer
Korver
CJ Miles

We can't afford to lose one of those guys in order to keep AK. It's that simple.

jimbobjarree
10-13-2008, 06:20 PM
haha LoPorto the leader of the 'AK get the hell outta Utah' fanclub lol

I completely agree, we've shot ourselves in the foot, AK is a great player, I'd back him up in an argument, he's good at what he does, but the contract we gave is impossible to work witrh...max money coming off the bench is a joke....only the Knicks do that and we AREN'T the Knicks.

still if AK isnt traded we could be living the offseason that GSW or LAC did this season and just watch helplessly as our stars all walk away for more money.

also, another big question, will anyone pay out big bucks in this FA when the FA the year after is sooooooo much better, sooo much better. Still I can see Memphis going after Boozer, they've stayed quiet, but they said they would spend next season.

do we have any restricted FAs?

jimbobjarree
10-19-2008, 11:27 PM
erm nobody will have cap for Boozer?

Miami wont unless they make a trade and probably only Memphis can make a real go at Boozer, so I think that gives us the advantage, and we can offer him a lower contract, maybe starting at 12/13mil a year?

unless there are more teams with cap, but most team will save it for 2010 cus that FA will be crazy.

sportsnutzz
10-20-2008, 12:54 PM
Honestly we either sign our players again, or we will be fine in 2010 when all the major free agents hit and we have a lot of money to spend. By the way everyone is so down on Fess.... guys he is worth a chance on his size alone. He is really young, if he developed he could be that center the jazz have needed for the last 15 years. I think he is totally worth the minimum.

Lo Porto
10-20-2008, 02:08 PM
It probably seems that I am the leader of the "Trade AK" fan club. I guess I am, or I'm the leader of the "I'd rather have more affordable guys who never threw a tantrum fan club". AK is a valuable asset, but we just can't afford him while continuing to improve to a championship calibur team.

Why haven't the talks with Memphis started already.....

We should re-sign Fesenko next summer. It is unwise to drop a guy that young who already knows our system.

jimbobjarree
10-20-2008, 02:38 PM
lol I went into the Grizzlies forum and said 'ak for darko?' and they were like no way in hell, we are trying to drop a big contract for cap not get an even bigger one...I dont think they will be knocking for ak anytime soon.

JIDsanity
10-20-2008, 05:16 PM
Stromile Swift's expiring + Trenton Hassel's expiring + Sean Williams, or Josh Boone+ Mo Ager, for AK and a 3rd string PG(we need one)

JIDsanity
10-20-2008, 05:17 PM
It would never happen, but I wish.

jimbobjarree
10-20-2008, 08:46 PM
Stromile Swift's expiring + Trenton Hassel's expiring + Sean Williams, or Josh Boone+ Mo Ager, for AK and a 3rd string PG(we need one)

that would be awesome, but we cant give up a pg right now, maybe if this trade happens in a months time. We'd have to cut a few of those guys straight away as well.

Tisoykeis
10-21-2008, 07:46 PM
Lot's of questions and it really makes me nervous as a life long Jazz fan. What we do in the next couple of years determines what D-Will does when his 3 year contract extension runs out. I would hate to see him bolt (I know, its a long way out, but he is the future of this league).

Maybe it is unwise to sign Boozer to a long term deal. He can score and rebound, but cannot play a lick of defense. What would happen if Paul Milsap played 37 minutes a game? Where would his numbers be in comparison to Boozers? A rough estimate based on last years numbers would put him at 15-16 points/game and nearly 12 rebounds. If he were the focal point of the offense like Boozer is then I am sure he could average 18-20 points a game and he would also average 2 blocks and 2 steals per game.

He has continued to get better every year and I wonder if he really could be a 20-10 guy if he were given the minutes. He is a little undersized, but he is a better defender than Boozer and would come much cheaper that Boozer.

I just don't know that resigning Boozer and letting Milsap walk would do anything to make us more of a contender. If Milsap could come close to replacing Boozers numbers, the lower contract might allow us to get the missing piece (a defensive minded center that can block shots and rebound) like Chris Kaman or Samuel Dalembert.

Just my thoughts. I don't particuliarly want to see Boozer go, but wonder if resigning him to a max deal is really going to make us a contender.

jimbobjarree
10-21-2008, 08:00 PM
will he get a max deal though, if novody else has the cap, or are prepared to splash a large amount because they are saving it for 2010 could we get him back as cheap as 13mil?

but other than that I agree, I'd prefer to have Millsap long term, than Boozer on a big long contract where he'l be on a vast amount when he's 33/34.

Lo Porto
10-22-2008, 12:25 PM
You make good points Tiso. Millsap is a huge asset to this team. I also believe that Boozer is too. We have to find a way to keep both of these guys in order to compete for a championship. Boozer's offense is just too strong and Millsap's assets are enormous off the bench. We need to find a center better suited to make up for Boozer's defensive inabilities. We also need to find a way for that center to take part in a 3 man post rotation where Boozer, Millsap and that center take up a huge portion of the minutes at PF and C. Okur is very good, but we need a different type center in the future to be able to defend the bigs of the West.

wazzusucks
10-22-2008, 02:05 PM
I see a lot of people freaking out here -- and I'll admit that the Jazz could face a tumultuous offseason -- but Utah actually has put itself in an enviable position. Few teams in the league can boast Utah's quality depth and various affordable contracts.

It's easy for us to forget history, but Kirilenko was signed to a max contract in 2004: 1) before Boozer was swiped away from Cleveland, and 2) before the Jazz drafted Deron Williams. In fact, he was the lone max player on the team when he signed, and I would bet that most people here applauded the team's commitment to its young star. I know I did. Obviously, Kirilenko's growth was stunted (particularly on the offensive end) when Boozer came aboard, but those difficulties can be attributed entirely to Kirilenko moving to small forward, which isn't his natural position. Kirilenko was an all-star as a power forward, and the Jazz took the risk of signing Boozer thinking Kirilenko would successfully transition to the 3. So far, that move has failed for Kirilenko on all levels.

Kirilenko is built to play power forward, even if his physique suggests otherwise. On offense, he's quicker than his defenders and excellent at finishing second-chance opportunities. On defense, his explosiveness, length and weak-side awareness make him an elite shot blocker. He's a quality rebounder on both ends, too. When he plays small forward, however, all of those traits lose their value. On offense, he's pushed outside his shooting range, and he's too far from the basket defensively to contribute much in the way of blocked shots and rebounding.

This is why it makes perfect sense for Kirilenko to come off the bench. Sure, his contract is far from ideal, but I'm guessing he'll find his niche as a reserve as long as Jerry Sloan doesn't yank him around too much. Kirilenko can step in and contribute at two positions, and I think his return to the frontcourt as a backup will result in better, all-around basketball.

I'm betting most people here expect Paul Millsap to serve as the backup for Boozer and maybe even as Boozer's long-term replacement. Let's make it clear right now: Millsap has a fraction of Boozer's offensive ability and will NEVER be a full-time starter. I love his intensity and rebounding ability, but Millsap's offensive game is incredibly raw. If Boozer does decide to opt out and sign elsewhere, it will not be Millsap who replaces him in the starting 5.

Turns out, the answer has been there all along. Carlos Boozer's replacement will be Andrei Kirilenko.

jimbobjarree
10-22-2008, 02:12 PM
I agree completely, Paul shows his flashes of offensive talent with his ability to hit a mid ranger or pull off a great play, but his energy is ideal for the bench. Which leads me onto if Millsap asks for too much will we just let him go as we have AK and Booz at the 4, probably the best power forward duo in the league.

I wonder how valuable AKs contract will be in the 2010 offseason, a whopping 18 million expiring should be worth a bit right?

lets hope his role on the bench will revitalize his play this season.

wazzusucks
10-22-2008, 03:31 PM
It feels like 2010 is a looooong way away, and you could go crazy with hypotheticals. I mean, what if Boozer's hamstring becomes a problem? Or any other injury, for that matter? I think if EVERYTHING stays on course this year, the 2009 offseason will look like the following...

1) Boozer opts out, and the Heat (and maybe a couple more teams) offer him a max deal. The advantage that Utah possesses is that it can add a sixth year to its offer. No other team can offer more than five. I think Utah will offer somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 years, $80 million. Boozer will be 34 when the contract expires, and I think it makes sense for him to resign and secure his future. To be honest, I could probably talk myself into letting Boozer walk, but he is one of the five best power forwards in the league.

2) Mehmet Okur accepts the option year on his deal at $9 million.

3) I think Millsap will garner a lot of interest around the league, but is there a team that will offer $25 million over five years to chase Utah away? Odds are, he stays. He needs to develop a consistent 17-foot jumper and learn how to stay out of foul trouble. But he brings enough to the table and enough upside to warrant something like $4 million a year over four years.

4) I can't foresee Larry Miller reversing himself and suddenly willing to pay the luxury tax, even if it's for just one year or two. He may not have a choice, though. That may have been the price he had to pay to get Utah back into the championship picture. I expect the Jazz want to resign Morris Almond as the heir apparent to Matt Harpring, but the problem is Harpring is on the books through 2010. There may be a market for a 33-year-old with two bad knees, but I don't know where it is. Still, Utah is not going to let Almond walk away when it will cost only $1.1 million to keep him.

5) The Jazz can limit the bleeding in terms of Miller's luxury tax payment, but to get under the salary cap would require a combination of deals that likely would shake up the core of talent they have collected. Trading Kirilenko makes the most sense numbers-wise, but a deal of that magnitude typically runs into complications. Besides, Kirilenko is untradeable unless he reverses the perception that he's lost it on the basketball court. You can say goodbye to Brevin Knight and Jarron Collins. Fesenko will step in as Collins' replacement at $870,000 (saving $1.3 million over Collins' 2008 salary) and I think Ronnie Price will sign something similar to two years, $3.5 million.

In 2010, Williams will get his max contract. I expect Harpring to be gone. Okur will command money similar to what he makes in his current deal. If it costs more than $8 million a year to keep Kirilenko, I'm guessing he's gone, too. I think Larry's going to have to plunk down some cash this year, but he's built a team that should be a playoff lock for years. At least he got what he'll pay for.

jimbobjarree
10-22-2008, 03:53 PM
a few points, the Heat will not have anywhere near the cap required to give Boozer a max contract unless they make a trade possibly shifting Blount's ugly contract, I think the Grizzlies are the sleeper team in this, I reckon they come out with a max deal for him, forcing us to have to offer him the 6 year deal.

as for the luxury tax, isn't it out of Miller's hands, I mean if none of the three opt out wont we be forced into paying it anyway, and what if Deron doesn't opt out of the 4th year in his extension (isnt it up around 23million?) he'l be forced into paying it then.

we have Matts 6million expiring in 2010 if we do go slightly over the luxury tax, but then again we have to re-sign Brewer then so its still wise to stay under the threshold for this season.

I can see Memo not opting out, and fingers crossed Kosta having a decent sophmore season that we dont need to re-sign Memo, leading to him either leaving or re-signing cheaper (or probably going to europe for a huge amount)

Lo Porto
10-22-2008, 04:17 PM
wazzusucks - good points.

I agree on most of all of it. AK is a great player, and is better suited at the 4. However, I still don't think he plays the 4 the way that Sloan wants. Remember, this is still Sloan's team more than anybody's. Even is a player is great, he has to play the game Sloan's way. AK has been in and out of the doghouse, but one thing is for sure - he doesn't play AK at the 4. Sloan has had the chance to do so, but he's chosen to give all those minutes to Boozer, Millsap and even Okur when Collins and Okur play together. Sloan doesn't want AK playing the 4.

The rest makes sense. I think Okur doesn't opt out. I think Brevin and Collins are gone. I think Almond and Fes stay. I think that Millsap will get offers of $5 million a year. He has to. Think about what an asset he could be for a team with a great center. Imagine what he could do in an uptempo offense. Teams like Houston, New York, Phoenix, Golden State, Dallas, Cleveland, and Chicago will be all over Millsap. Most of those teams would spend their entire midlevel on the guy. We need to be prepared to give Millsap about $6 million a year next offseason. Anything less, and we could lose him. $6 million a year is worth it in my mind.

With all those numbers in mind, considering we re-sign Boozer to about $15-16 a year, I think it all will boil down to 3 options.
1. We pay the luxury tax because we go over the luxury limit by about $6-7 million
2. We trade AK before the deadline
3. We trade Harpring's expiring contract or AK next summer after we see what everyone else does.

Tisoykeis
10-22-2008, 08:16 PM
I see a lot of people freaking out here -- and I'll admit that the Jazz could face a tumultuous offseason -- but Utah actually has put itself in an enviable position. Few teams in the league can boast Utah's quality depth and various affordable contracts.

It's easy for us to forget history, but Kirilenko was signed to a max contract in 2004: 1) before Boozer was swiped away from Cleveland, and 2) before the Jazz drafted Deron Williams. In fact, he was the lone max player on the team when he signed, and I would bet that most people here applauded the team's commitment to its young star. I know I did. Obviously, Kirilenko's growth was stunted (particularly on the offensive end) when Boozer came aboard, but those difficulties can be attributed entirely to Kirilenko moving to small forward, which isn't his natural position. Kirilenko was an all-star as a power forward, and the Jazz took the risk of signing Boozer thinking Kirilenko would successfully transition to the 3. So far, that move has failed for Kirilenko on all levels.

Kirilenko is built to play power forward, even if his physique suggests otherwise. On offense, he's quicker than his defenders and excellent at finishing second-chance opportunities. On defense, his explosiveness, length and weak-side awareness make him an elite shot blocker. He's a quality rebounder on both ends, too. When he plays small forward, however, all of those traits lose their value. On offense, he's pushed outside his shooting range, and he's too far from the basket defensively to contribute much in the way of blocked shots and rebounding.

This is why it makes perfect sense for Kirilenko to come off the bench. Sure, his contract is far from ideal, but I'm guessing he'll find his niche as a reserve as long as Jerry Sloan doesn't yank him around too much. Kirilenko can step in and contribute at two positions, and I think his return to the frontcourt as a backup will result in better, all-around basketball.

I'm betting most people here expect Paul Millsap to serve as the backup for Boozer and maybe even as Boozer's long-term replacement. Let's make it clear right now: Millsap has a fraction of Boozer's offensive ability and will NEVER be a full-time starter. I love his intensity and rebounding ability, but Millsap's offensive game is incredibly raw. If Boozer does decide to opt out and sign elsewhere, it will not be Millsap who replaces him in the starting 5.

Turns out, the answer has been there all along. Carlos Boozer's replacement will be Andrei Kirilenko.

I personnally disagree that Kirilenko is better suited to play the 4 position in Sloans system. In Sloan's offense, the 4 has to be physical and have the ability to play with his back to the basket against big, physical defenders and needs to be able to set solid picks and hit a mid range jumper on pick and roll plays. If you look at Karl Malone and Boozer, you see the type of 4's Sloan wants in his system. Kirilenko doesn't fit that mold.

Kirilenko just isn't a physical enough player to play the 4 position in Sloans system. He was an all-star playing the 4 position on a pretty bad team when Boozer was out because we had no other option at the time and he was the go-to guy.

As for Milsap...I guess I disagree here as well. I have watched games where Milsap has made some incredible offensive moves going to the basket and where he finishes really well. His jump shot is getting much better as well. I am not saying that he is as polished as Boozer, but to say he has a fraction of Boozer's offensive talent and that he will never be a starter is IMO a crazy statement. He is already a better defender than Boozer is.

Personally, I think the Jazz have enough offensive weapons, that they don't need a 20-10 PF that can't play defense, they need a 13-10 PF that can play defense and spend the money they would throw at Boozer on a legitimate interior defending Center that can rebound and Block shots. Again, just my opinion, but until they become a better defensive team and have a shot blocking presence in the paint, they will never truly contend for a title. They will make the playoffs and may win a series or two, but not the title. Look at the recent teams that have won titles since the Jordan era ended: Lakers, Spurs, and Pistons have dominated and have always had a defensive presence in the middle.

I am just sick of watching Boozer and Okur step out of the way and give up lay up after lay up after lay up. Hopefully he steps up his game because I am sure the Jazz will offer him max money to stay.

Lo Porto
10-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Tiso - you are absolutely right about AK. He's a good player, but he was an All Star because there were no other players and he could do what he wanted. And the results of all those stats were not wins. AK is not the type player to play PF for Utah.

O'Connor - please trade AK to Memphis for Darko Milicic and Antoine Walker. We could waive Walker and add another big man who can block shots to our front court. Oh, and we get to save money too...

jimbobjarree
10-23-2008, 05:50 PM
I agree with Tiso, and I'm sick of the constant free lay ups, or that when an opponent goes attempts a lay up against us I just wait for the whistle, it get annoying.

Lo Porto
10-24-2008, 04:10 PM
Yep. Okur does help, but we could use a defensive center. I would give up a first rounder to trade AK and Okur to get Okafor and Gerald Wallace...

sportsnutzz
10-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Yep. Okur does help, but we could use a defensive center. I would give up a first rounder to trade AK and Okur to get Okafor and Gerald Wallace...

I agree with this trade idea Wallace is being shopped around I heard in the NBA forum.

Tisoykeis
01-20-2009, 08:44 PM
Currently, the Jazz have the following 10 players under contract for next year with Boozer and Okur having player options and I believe the Jazz have a team option on Fesenko:

Kirilenko $16,451,250
Boozer (Player Option) $12,657,233
Okur (Player Option) $9,000,000
Harpring $6,500,000
Williams $13,785,000
Korver $5,155,115
Miles $3,700,000
Brewer $2,717,161
Koufus $1,214,040
Fesenko (Team Option) $870,000

That is a total Cap of $72,049,799

The salary cap for the 2008-09 season will be $58.68 million. The luxury tax threshold will be $71.15 million, which means we will be on the brink of the luxury tax threshold to start next season if we don't make any moves.

Here are my concerns:

1. With Boozers injury and other NBA teams stocking piling cash
for the 2010 Free agents, I believe that both Boozer and Okur will take
the player option and stay with the Jazz next year (I know Boozer said
he would opt out, but with his injury more serious than originally thought, not sure many teams are going to shell out a max deal to him, including the Jazz).

2. Jazz have not shown any true urgency behind moving Kirlenko's
salary, so I assume he will be here as well.

3. Deron Williams new contract kicks in next year and I assume
we still need to resign Brevin Knight to be the backup point guard and
maybe even resign Price or bring in another PG (Sloan likes to have 3
PG's on the roster.)

4. But the bigger question is with the Jazz already at the luxury tax threshold or beyond, how do the Jazz sign Milsap to a long term deal with these Salary Cap issues? Is it conceivable that the Jazz will loose Milsap if Boozer doesn't opt out or would the Jazz be willing to pay the luxury tax for a season to keep Milsap?

jimbobjarree
01-20-2009, 09:33 PM
ooo i shud bump up my thread about this months ago and merge them

jimbobjarree
01-20-2009, 09:35 PM
bump in respnse to the other cap thread

Tisoykeis
01-21-2009, 05:13 PM
bump in respnse to the other cap thread

:bang:That other cap thread was 4 months ago. Things have changed since then and now my comments are burried 3 pages in a thread nobody is going to read.

There is a very real chance that Both Boozer and Okur exercise their options and the Jazz would find themselves with a salary cap of 72 million dollars and assuming no trades, will be required to pay the luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap.

That is a significant issue that I was hoping to get some thoughts on.

jimbobjarree
01-21-2009, 05:29 PM
^oh sorry.

and if that happens we dont pay luxury tax if we extend Millsap to a big contract because he was our draft pick, so we could totally do that...but it delays the inevitable that bit longer..but I suppose we can trade Booz over the summer as he'll be healthy.

and things havnt changed much since then, apart from boozer saying he was going to opt out and getting injured.

Tisoykeis
01-21-2009, 06:51 PM
^oh sorry.

and if that happens we dont pay luxury tax if we extend Millsap to a big contract because he was our draft pick, so we could totally do that...but it delays the inevitable that bit longer..but I suppose we can trade Booz over the summer as he'll be healthy.

and things havnt changed much since then, apart from boozer saying he was going to opt out and getting injured.

Haven't changed much? There have been huge changes since your previous post......

1. The economy has totally tanked and has become a much bigger issue and unless things improve, teams are probably not going to be able spend like they have in the past (increases Boozer and Okurs chance of exercising player options).

2. Boozer got hurt again and has missed the last 30 games, had surgery and doesn't even have a timetable yet for his return. What team is going to sign him to a max deal coming off a big injury like that? (significantly increases the chance that he exercises his player option).

3. Paul Milsap has emerged as the best player on the team this year and has surpassed Boozer's status in value in many peoples eyes. This means that Jazz are going to have to give Milsap a huge raise, if they want to keep him.

All of the above items significantly impact the Jazz's cap situation for the coming years.

Lo Porto
01-21-2009, 06:55 PM
There is a chance that Okur, Boozer and Korver stick around. Wouldn't that be terrible? We have no choice but to re-sign Millsap. Not re-signing him would be awful in every way. My estimation is that he will ask for anywhere from $8-10 a year, and he deserves it. So our cap would be terrible, and we'd probably try to move Harpring as soon as we could since he seems to be the most expendable and he would have an expiring contract.

I'd rather trade Boozer now than take the chance of him not opting out and blowing our chances at keeping Millsap. Millsap at $10 a year is better for us than Boozer at $15. Let's trade Boozer right now like this:

Miami gets Boozer, Eddy Curry, New York's 2009 2nd rounder & Utah's 2009 2nd rounder
New York gets Marion and Jarron Collins
Utah gets David Lee, Malik Rose and Udonis Haslem

Miami fans are skeptical about this trade, but they should be excited to get Boozer and another center.

jimbobjarree
01-21-2009, 07:15 PM
we dont pay luxury tax though through re-signing Millsap...so we'd have no luxury tax, and harpring (6.5), Booz (12), Memo (9), Korver (5) all coming off the books in the big 2010, with New Yorks pick...we could see quite the turnaround in Utah if none of them opt out, so IMO it would be good, also gives us another year to trade Booz

Tisoykeis
01-21-2009, 07:23 PM
There is a chance that Okur, Boozer and Korver stick around. Wouldn't that be terrible? We have no choice but to re-sign Millsap. Not re-signing him would be awful in every way. My estimation is that he will ask for anywhere from $8-10 a year, and he deserves it. So our cap would be terrible, and we'd probably try to move Harpring as soon as we could since he seems to be the most expendable and he would have an expiring contract.

I'd rather trade Boozer now than take the chance of him not opting out and blowing our chances at keeping Millsap. Millsap at $10 a year is better for us than Boozer at $15. Let's trade Boozer right now like this:

Miami gets Boozer, Eddy Curry, New York's 2009 2nd rounder & Utah's 2009 2nd rounder
New York gets Marion and Morris Almond
Utah gets David Lee, Malik Rose and Udonis Haslem

Miami fans are skeptical about this trade, but they should be excited to get Boozer and another center.

I like that trade a lot and it seems to make a lot of sense for all teams. According to the trade machine, we would need to throw in someone else to make it work...so I threw in Jaron Collins.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3188~1703~988~2184~510~990~277 2~739&teams=18~14~18~26~18~14~26~26&te=&cash=

Does work though and does seem to help each team. The Jazz wouldn't resign Rose but his expiring contract frees up space to help in signing Milsap.

Lo Porto
01-22-2009, 01:09 PM
I forgot to add Collins in place of Almond. My mistake. Thanks for correcting that. I think this trade should happen. Lee has been on fire, but I still think that New York would be more than willing to trade Lee if they can also dump Curry. Miami would be better suited getting Boozer than just hoping to get LeBron, Bosh or Stoudamire in 2010. Beasley might play PF some, but there are plenty of minutes in the game to have Beasley play SF some and every minute that Boozer is on the bench.

Jimbob - we can definitely sign Millsap no matter what this offseason whether we match on somebody else's offer or we re-sign him ourselves. However, we will go over the luxury tax (estimated in the $72 million range) if nobody opts out and we re-sign Millsap.

chipurmunki
01-22-2009, 02:51 PM
hmmmmm, i have no figures or anything solid to add to this conversation. i am just blown away by millsap's continued improvement. i think what's been lost w/ him in discussing how great a player he is now is that he's a jerry type player. he complains none, hustles, does the little things, but he also shows up to work. 'the team needs me, i was playing on one leg, but this is a MAN'S game'. i say trade booze because if we didn't, we'd basically be letting him decide the future of this team, in part. we'd be relying on chance. what we do if he comes back is drastically different than if he walks. millsap, deron, and okur are our #1 priorities, imo. korver and harpring are next. i wouldn't mind trading booze and ak. if it came down between the two, i'd rather keep ak. we have a very capable boozer replacement in millsap so we won't miss him. i know ak makes too much, but who do we have to replace him? he gets more steals and blocks than korver miles and harpring combined. i'm rambling, but i just see two possible futures for the jazz.... a bright one if booze leaves and a not-so-bright one if booze stays. what we do w/ booze, not ak, i think is the central factor.

as far as the trade goes. i'm all up on that. if we can pull something like that off i'd do nothing short of sacrificing a cow to o'connor.

HotRodsHair
01-22-2009, 02:54 PM
Wait, tell me how trading Boozer, just in case he doesn't choose to opt out of his deal, for other guys with deals that will count on our books just as much as Boozer's, will relieve our cap situation again?

Also, I believe if a team is simply re-upping their own FA's, they don't take the same hit against the salary cap.

jimbobjarree
01-22-2009, 03:01 PM
as mean as it sounds, its another reason to hate Booz, because although he has allowed us to see how great Millsap is, he's more or less doubled what Millsap would have earned, I can see Millsap signing an identical contract to the Booz one now....cap hell if KOC REALLY thinks we can re-sign Booz as well, he should be on the phone to everyone right now replying to their Booz trade offers IMO

Lo Porto
01-22-2009, 03:49 PM
If we trade Boozer for Haslem, Lee and Rose, here is that how that works for us financially:

Boozer will make $14-15 a year in his next contract. Lee will probably make around $8-10 with his next contract, but that won't be put into place as a full contract until the 2010-11 season since he's a restricted free agent after this season. Haslem has this year and next on his contract making about $6.5 a year. Rose makes $7 million in the last year of his deal. So, Lee and Haslem together would cost us around $9 million combined for next season (2009-10) whereas Boozer would cost us at least $12 should he not opt out. So we save money either way.

Now if Lee were to sign with another team and we match on it, then we could go over what Boozer would make, but we wouldn't have to match it if we didn't want. Plus, we could trade Haslem who would be pretty attractive since he would be in the last year of his deal and he's a solid player. Harpring could also be traded since he has an expiring contract.

Lo Porto
01-22-2009, 03:54 PM
I agree Jimbob. Millsap won't get an offer for more than $10 a year, but $10 a year is so much more than I thought he would ever make. At this point, I would love to sign Millsap to a 6 year $55 million deal at the end of the year: $8, $8.5, $9, $9.5, $10 with a 6th year team option for $10.

Tisoykeis
01-22-2009, 05:48 PM
Wait, tell me how trading Boozer, just in case he doesn't choose to opt out of his deal, for other guys with deals that will count on our books just as much as Boozer's, will relieve our cap situation again?

Also, I believe if a team is simply re-upping their own FA's, they don't take the same hit against the salary cap.


It doesn't relieve our cap situation, unless you are trading for expiring contracts. Then you would be able to use that money to sign Millsap to a long term deal.

Lo Porto
01-22-2009, 06:29 PM
We can re-sign Millsap to whatever number he wants even if we go beyond the luxury tax threshold. I think that if you draft a player, you can sign him to whatever you want, but signing free agents is near impossible outside of the midlevel exception ($6 a year). We can keep Millsap no matter what I believe because he is still restricted this summer. However, it would be hard to keep him and everyone else should they not opt out AND stay under the luxury tax.

jimbobjarree
01-22-2009, 07:13 PM
^thats exactly what I've been saying but everyone seems to be ignoring me, I've been trying to find the article that states that

Vidball
01-22-2009, 07:53 PM
If Miller is willing to pay the luxury tax dollars he can sign both Boozer and Millsap to max-extensions. When you are resigning your own player you can go over the max. The problem is Miller probably doesn't want to pay for both big men. If that's the case, trading Boozer doesn't do anything for the financial issues of the Jazz.

jimbobjarree
01-22-2009, 07:55 PM
no there is actually a rule in the NBA that if you go over the luxury tax resigning a player you drafted, you dont have to pay. That is the point I have been trying to make. sheesh

Robbw241
01-22-2009, 09:32 PM
There is always room to add Boki... He is just that GAWDLY

DrDEADalready
01-23-2009, 10:57 AM
no there is actually a rule in the NBA that if you go over the luxury tax resigning a player you drafted, you dont have to pay. That is the point I have been trying to make. sheesh


I don't know if anyone has said this. but I believe you can Sign a player you drafted without having to pay the Luxury tax. I think that is right? don't you think JIMBOB ;)

HA HA

jimbobjarree
01-23-2009, 11:08 AM
lol now people will actually start listening.

somebody try and find the article

JAZZNC
01-23-2009, 11:21 AM
There is always room to add Boki... He is just that GAWDLY

:horse:


We can resign Millsap and stay under the tax IF everybody else stays the same. If nobody opts out then isn't the only person who will have an increase in salary Deron? I dunno, I just hope that Boozer opts out and leaves. It'll be so hilarious if he ends up having to sign with a complete scrub team to get his max contract. Like OKC or the Bobcats or Griz. Actually, the Bobcats and Griz may be alright if they got him.

HotRodsHair
01-23-2009, 11:24 AM
If we trade Boozer for Haslem, Lee and Rose, here is that how that works for us financially:

Boozer will make $14-15 a year in his next contract. Lee will probably make around $8-10 with his next contract, but that won't be put into place as a full contract until the 2010-11 season since he's a restricted free agent after this season. Haslem has this year and next on his contract making about $6.5 a year. Rose makes $7 million in the last year of his deal. So, Lee and Haslem together would cost us around $9 million combined for next season (2009-10) whereas Boozer would cost us at least $12 should he not opt out. So we save money either way.

Now if Lee were to sign with another team and we match on it, then we could go over what Boozer would make, but we wouldn't have to match it if we didn't want. Plus, we could trade Haslem who would be pretty attractive since he would be in the last year of his deal and he's a solid player. Harpring could also be traded since he has an expiring contract.


Good stuff Lo Porto. I think where it gets sticky is in the timing of when contracts step up and how that impacts the numbers in future years. It looks like you have some semblence of a grasp on that.

Lo Porto
01-23-2009, 12:09 PM
Thanks HotRod and JimBob.

I just really hope that Utah trades Boozer instead of just letting him go. Losing a player for nothing has burned us the last 5 years - Pavlovic, Mo Williams, DeShawn Stevenson. Let's just get something for him....