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View Full Version : Why does T-mac get sooo much blame for losing?



JordansBulls
10-08-2008, 11:57 AM
Why does T-mac get sooo much blame for losing?

My thing is this. With T-mac the only times you can blame him is in 2006-2007 and perhaps 2007-2008. I feel that whenever your team has the homecourt advantage and the better record as well as if your team is the top seed and they lose, that really no excuses can be given because you were in a favorable situation.

Now the problem with this is that people try to compare him to all time greats and base his success on what someone like MJ or Magic have done as leaders. He isnít them, nor should he be compared to them.

What does that mean for T-mac? Well many other great players have lost with the Homecourt Advantage. T-mac has lost twice with the HCA. Magic lost 3 times with Homecourt Advantage and as a top seed (and to a team below .500 in round 1), Kareem 5 times and as a top seed (and to a team below .500 in round 1), Bird 7 times and as a top seed and Bird never in his career won a series in the playoffs w/o HCA. Wilt lost 5 times with HCA and as a top seed (and to a team below .500 in round 1), Russell 1 time as a top seed (although he got injured later in the series), Shaq 3 times and as a top seed, Kobe 1 time and also another time as a top seed, Hakeem 2 times with the Homecourt Advantage, and Duncan has lost 3 times with the Homecourt Advantage and all 3 times as the top seed.

In fact, if we used the same criteria above, in reality Jordan is the only player in the top 30 Players All Time to never lose a series with Homecourt Advantage, the better record, the same record, the same seed (only can happen in the finals), higher seed, etc. He was 24-0 in series with the HC Advantage and 25-0 in series where he had the same record or better.

So if T-mac is going to get the blame for losing when the favorite, than so should all of those other legends who have lost series with the homecourt advantage or a top seed and to teams far inferior to them as the case was in a few of those cases aboves.

Another point is that Yao has been considered the best player on the team since 2006-2007 and he hasn't played as well as he should and in 2007-2008 he was injured. I think when your team is the favorite the best player should get the blame for the success of the team if he doesnít play, however if they do play well, then the 2nd star is the one who should get the blame if they are the one that doesnít play well.

JayW_1023
10-08-2008, 12:11 PM
Houston looks really great on paper...if they share the ball as well as last year and if Artest only adds to their defensive nuclues, I see T-Mac and Yao advancing further than the first round given that everyone is healthy.

Frank Costanza
10-08-2008, 12:52 PM
i think tmac gets the blame rathre than those stars cause his losses were in round 1, now some of those players lost in round one too but at some point in their careers and many points held up the trophy, i think if tmac consistently lost in the conference finals even if his team was first and had HCA i think he would not have the heat that sits with him today,

I do however feel this yr is gonna be different and that us in HOU have put together one of the best overall teams in the West and expect a HOU-BOS Finals with HOU winning in a dramatic 7th game at the Toyota Center

kntresistheheat
10-08-2008, 01:23 PM
The reason is because he is the star of the team and he is supposed to be the leader, But how can he when he is always hurt and cant get out of the first round!!!! So since he is the star of the team he gets the finger pointed at all the time....Plain and simple!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Joshtd1
10-08-2008, 01:39 PM
He gets blamed because didnt he say to blame him if they lost??

Plus, also the fact that his team has never been out of the 1st round doesnt help either, since he is supposed to be the star/main guy.

barreleffact
10-08-2008, 02:12 PM
basically, its life. in life the blame always falls onto the leader. it doesnt help that he made a guarantee or said to blame him if they lost...then they lost. granted that was just one time, but you dont see many HoF caliber talents that never escape the first round. If he cant get out this time, it is him. plain and simple.

Even if he goes on to win a ring tho, it doesnt change who he is in my eyes. He's an injury riddled talent that is too weak to lead w/o an allstar team. KG, ray, and pierce all went to their conference finals at one point or another...and KG is a huge clutch choker but he still got there. thats the difference. if you're good enough, you take your team and drag them if you have to.

JordansBulls
10-08-2008, 02:23 PM
The reason is because he is the star of the team and he is supposed to be the leader, But how can he when he is always hurt and cant get out of the first round!!!! So since he is the star of the team he gets the finger pointed at all the time....Plain and
simple!!!!!!!:rolleyes:



the only year Mcgrady was hurt really was in '05-06 where he played 47 games.

The other years he played 78, 71 and 66 games in Houston

Yao on the other hand has played 82, 80, 57, 48, 55 since being with the Rockets and T-mac.

Yeah he has missed games, but what star hasn't? Jordan missed literally a whole season with the Bulls in 1986 and Pippen missed half a season with the Bulls in 1998. Also Rodman played like 55 games with the Bulls in 1997 and Longley was playing 59 games and Kukoc played 57 games.

In 2000 Kobe played 66 games for the Lakers, In 2001 he played 68 games and Shaq played 74 games. In 2002 Shaq played 67 games. In 2004 Shaq played 67 games and Kobe played 65 games.

This year for 2008, Garnett played 71 games and Allen played 73 games.

In 2005 Duncan played 66 games.

The point is that guys will miss games and even great players will as well. And Mcgrady really hasn't played any less than any of those top players in MJ, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, Allen, etc.

Also while T-mac may be the star on the Rockets, he isn't the best player. Yao is considered the best player on the team because he is more productive and efficient.

Chronz
10-08-2008, 02:23 PM
Thats a ******** way of looking at it, just because your the higher seed doesnt mean your the better team. Obviously it does if your a 1 seed or 2 seed or something like that but 4-5 seeds are even. The Jazz were the better team, just that Tmac and Yao were so great the Rockets overachieved and got 1 game ahead of the Jazz, but it was the Jazz who had the winning record versus playoff teams, they just lost a few gimme's. It showed in the playoffs when no one other than Yao or Tmac could do anything.

And how can you blame Tmac for losing last year, NO YAO remember.

But the reason he gets so much blame is because hes an easy target due to the whole never getting past the first round thing, its really stupid but people dont know any better I guess.

JordansBulls
10-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Thats a ******** way of looking at it, just because your the higher seed doesnt mean your the better team. Obviously it does if your a 1 seed or 2 seed or something like that but 4-5 seeds are even. The Jazz were the better team, just that Tmac and Yao were so great the Rockets overachieved and got 1 game ahead of the Jazz, but it was the Jazz who had the winning record versus playoff teams, they just lost a few gimme's. It showed in the playoffs when no one other than Yao or Tmac could do anything.

And how can you blame Tmac for losing last year, NO YAO remember.



I'm saying that if a player gets blamed for losing it has to be that his team was good enough to win and that the circumstancias were favorable for him to win. Such as the case with having the HC Advantage.

Last year I don't even think Yao was the problem, the problem was not having Rafer for the 1st 2 games. Remember that he was part of the streak of like 12 in row once Yao went down.

frizbo72
10-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Because he is the ultimate Loser!!!!!!!!!

Coqui77
10-08-2008, 02:43 PM
Because he sign with Orlando all those years ago and not with the HEAT.
He would have had a ring by now if he would have signed with us.

DreamShaker
10-08-2008, 02:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RtGzevZV1Y

BoltLakerPadre
10-08-2008, 03:02 PM
When you have such a great level of talent, and you never get out of the first round of the playoffs, its seen as a major disappointment. Sorry if it's unfair, but sports, and especially sports fans are unfair. They have expecations, and when they aren't meet, they get upset and start laying blame.

muninade
10-08-2008, 03:09 PM
i know it seems such a bad situation for T-Mac but he wasnt the same as he was orlando, ever since he hurt his back, which is a major problem because it keeps on returning. but i think when he left orlando, he was amazing, but when he went to houstan he was hurt, even though he might play games through the back pain it doesnt mean he is full recoverd, so houston was stuck with a T-mac with bad back and it affected his preformance and that can be observed from his numbers droping from the nba leader to a substancively lower, one can argue in orlando he was the number 1 option, but the numbers do not decrease as much as it did for t-mac.

JJ81
10-08-2008, 03:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuOdf8tQXKQ

Chronz
10-08-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm saying that if a player gets blamed for losing it has to be that his team was good enough to win and that the circumstancias were favorable for him to win. Such as the case with having the HC Advantage.
I know what you were trying to say but having HC doesnt make it so. For the reasons I gave above.


Last year I don't even think Yao was the problem, the problem was not having Rafer for the 1st 2 games. Remember that he was part of the streak of like 12 in row once Yao went down.
Not having Yao was a major problem, not having Rafer only made things worse.

Beno7500
10-08-2008, 03:23 PM
Because he can't get HIS team out of the first round

Leftcoast_yg
10-08-2008, 09:55 PM
can anyone say "Rockets Forum"....move it on out fellas!

TMAC94
10-08-2008, 10:00 PM
tmac blamed himself for all the games we lost. he was in a video saying " its on me " " if we dont get past the first round its on me "

Hawkeye15
10-08-2008, 10:39 PM
Because he gets paid the money he makes, is the #1 guy on his team, is widely considered a top 10 player. Welcome to KG's world before last year. No matter how good you are, you need help. And the right equation hasn't surrounded him yet. He could stand to toughen up a bit as well.

NYMetros
10-08-2008, 10:43 PM
I get what you're saying JordansBulls, and this has always been something that has somewhat annoyed me. He shouldn't get all the blame for losing. Last time I checked, 1 guy cannot carry a team to a Championship ring. Yao has not been healthy in the playoffs the last few years, and so McGrady has not had any supporting cast because of that. Now McGrady has Artest and Yao (if he stays healthy). This will be the year we can judge Mcgrady IMO.

JOSETHEALLSTAR
10-08-2008, 11:04 PM
he get the blame bevause he is star of the team and leader its not fair

LakerzDQ
10-09-2008, 05:26 AM
McGrady has never played a full season, but it's not like he's missing 30 games per season. he just gets alot of annoying injuries that keep him from playing his best. I guess he gets alot of blame because he has had a really good season in 02-03, but never repeated that performance.

Big Quett
10-09-2008, 05:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuOdf8tQXKQ

Yeah that was an instant classic. I think that ranks up there with the Sheed "both teams played hard" clip and the A.I "Practice" one

lakers4sho
10-09-2008, 08:22 AM
I think a 41% FG, 29% 3PT, 68% FT, and a drop in PPG kinda speaks for itself...

rhino17
10-09-2008, 11:46 AM
he is one of the best playoff performers ever. I remember people were blaming him in that game 7 vs. the Jazz, yet he had a stat line of something like 30 pts, 15 ast, and 8 rbs

He has rarely had a team around him that was capable of making it into the 2nd round. There was 1 year when both he and yao were healthy, and they made it to game 7, but their supporting cast was awful. Last year yao and rafer missed the playoffs, in 05 they got cheated by donaghy

rhino17
10-09-2008, 11:48 AM
can anyone say "Rockets Forum"....move it on out fellas!

yeah, because "Lamar odom starting at pg tonight" is even more relevant in here

MiamiHeat
10-09-2008, 12:03 PM
because he is so blameable...

lordjkingjames
10-09-2008, 12:37 PM
is for the same reason Dirk Nowitzki gets all the blame when the mavs lose then again he got his team to the finals with josh as he second best player while t mac in houston has yao, i like t-mac but never out of the 1st round come on man dont take it personal its not like you personally know that guy he just loses and he is tha main star in the team, so he gets all the blame no matter who he is playing with just like Dirk.

Leftcoast_yg
10-09-2008, 12:40 PM
yeah, because "Lamar odom starting at pg tonight" is even more relevant in here

WOW i did'nt start that thread and if i did it would be in the Lakers forum, don't get mad it's the truth this belongs in the rockets forum, if you want news and talk about rocket players than you go to the rockets forum this is a forum for nba topics not team player topics, a thread about a team moving, or new rules is more suitable for this forum than this one:eyebrow:

Cali4rnia
10-09-2008, 12:52 PM
he gets blamed for it because some rocket fans thinks he is good as kobe ROFL

JordansBulls
10-09-2008, 02:27 PM
he gets blamed for it because some rocket fans thinks he is good as kobe ROFL

I don't think anyone thinks that nowadays.

astrosmaniac
10-09-2008, 04:59 PM
can anyone say "Rockets Forum"....move it on out fellas!

no one movs all the kobe or bynum threads, so why should this one get moved?

rhino17
10-09-2008, 05:46 PM
WOW i did'nt start that thread and if i did it would be in the Lakers forum, don't get mad it's the truth this belongs in the rockets forum, if you want news and talk about rocket players than you go to the rockets forum this is a forum for nba topics not team player topics, a thread about a team moving, or new rules is more suitable for this forum than this one:eyebrow:
Do you know how many threads in here are about Kobe and Bynum? Thats pretty much the reason I rarely post in here anymore. Its become another version of the Lakers forum. Dont get your panties in a knot because people want to talk about another team/player

DreamShaker
10-09-2008, 06:30 PM
Do you know how many threads in here are about Kobe and Bynum? Thats pretty much the reason I rarely post in here anymore. Its become another version of the Lakers forum. Dont get your panties in a knot because people want to talk about another team/player

Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau Kobe Bynum Pau

ramansingh3
10-09-2008, 06:36 PM
Because he has never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs. He had that one year with the magic where they did horrible but he put up like 30 points a game.

IversonIsKrazy
10-09-2008, 11:28 PM
when he had Vince, 1st round exit.
when he Grant Hill + Mike Miller, 1st round exit.
when he had Yao, 1st round exit.
he has a horrible fg percentage, lower than 43%, horrible 3-point percentage as well. i mean stats wise, and playoffs, i wouldn't nessecarly say hes a SUPERSTAR as i would say he is an ALL STAR. and i h8 it when ppl rank t-mac in prime over ai in prime. ai took philly 2 tha finals w/ who?

T-Mac is an ALL-STAR more than a SUPERSTAR. hopefully he'll FINALLY prove me wrong this year w/ the addition of artest. i dont noe how much more loaded up the *** he can get.
Hes got now yao, artest, battier and alston. If it's another 1st round exit,then once again he'll prove me rite.

BlondeBomber41
10-10-2008, 08:11 AM
he is one of the best playoff performers ever. I remember people were blaming him in that game 7 vs. the Jazz, yet he had a stat line of something like 30 pts, 15 ast, and 8 rbs

He has rarely had a team around him that was capable of making it into the 2nd round. There was 1 year when both he and yao were healthy, and they made it to game 7, but their supporting cast was awful. Last year yao and rafer missed the playoffs, in 05 they got cheated by donaghy

They did not get cheated by Donaghy, dont get into that stupid crap again. All that was reported there was that Donaghy reported that the NBA asked the refs to pay more attention to Yao's illegal screens. If you wanna be completely ignorant and try to construe that into thinking it meant the Rockets were cheated, then like TMac said, "Its On You."

rhino17
10-10-2008, 08:31 AM
They did not get cheated by Donaghy, dont get into that stupid crap again. All that was reported there was that Donaghy reported that the NBA asked the refs to pay more attention to Yao's illegal screens. If you wanna be completely ignorant and try to construe that into thinking it meant the Rockets were cheated, then like TMac said, "Its On You."

oh yeah, i forgot, during that time in the nba, you were allowed to steal the ball from out of bounds (finley steals from barry winning the game).

BlondeBomber41
10-10-2008, 08:52 AM
oh yeah, i forgot, during that time in the nba, you were allowed to steal the ball from out of bounds (finley steals from barry winning the game).

Man you are too funny.

First of all, why you think that means the Rockets would of ultimately won the game was beyond me.

Secondly, a ref not seeing something and a ref calling the game wrong on purpose are two different things. Unless there was a ref standing on the baseline watching feet they probably wouldnt see that. Especially since in that scenario Barry had just got a rebound and the refs were probably already turned and on their way back to the other end of the court.

DLeeicious
10-10-2008, 11:25 AM
I notice most of your posts revolve around T-Mac. Why do you like the guy so much? Just curious...

Chronz
10-10-2008, 04:31 PM
when he had Vince, 1st round exit.
when he Grant Hill + Mike Miller, 1st round exit.
when he had Yao, 1st round exit.
he has a horrible fg percentage, lower than 43%, horrible 3-point percentage as well. i mean stats wise, and playoffs, i wouldn't nessecarly say hes a SUPERSTAR as i would say he is an ALL STAR. and i h8 it when ppl rank t-mac in prime over ai in prime. ai took philly 2 tha finals w/ who?

T-Mac is an ALL-STAR more than a SUPERSTAR. hopefully he'll FINALLY prove me wrong this year w/ the addition of artest. i dont noe how much more loaded up the *** he can get.
Hes got now yao, artest, battier and alston. If it's another 1st round exit,then once again he'll prove me rite.
Iverson isnt as crazy as you are, Iverson had the best team in the east and he almost cost his team a trip to the finals, he shouldve gone to the Finals with a team that wins every award imaginable. In the playoffs hes even better than the regular season.

barreleffact
10-10-2008, 05:56 PM
Iverson isnt as crazy as you are, Iverson had the best team in the east and he almost cost his team a trip to the finals, he shouldve gone to the Finals with a team that wins every award imaginable. In the playoffs hes even better than the regular season.

SOOOO lost...when did AI have the best team in the east? I know you arent talkin roster wise cuz he NEVER had a squad that should have gone to the finals. What do you mean he almost cost his team a trip to the finals? no AI meant no playoffs, let alone finals. hell if Tmac was there instead of AI, I guarantee you what would have happened....1 and out

Ballah0liC1
10-24-2008, 01:47 PM
when he had Vince, 1st round exit.
when he Grant Hill + Mike Miller, 1st round exit.
when he had Yao, 1st round exit.
he has a horrible fg percentage, lower than 43%, horrible 3-point percentage as well. i mean stats wise, and playoffs, i wouldn't nessecarly say hes a SUPERSTAR as i would say he is an ALL STAR. and i h8 it when ppl rank t-mac in prime over ai in prime. ai took philly 2 tha finals w/ who?

T-Mac is an ALL-STAR more than a SUPERSTAR. hopefully he'll FINALLY prove me wrong this year w/ the addition of artest. i dont noe how much more loaded up the *** he can get.
Hes got now yao, artest, battier and alston. If it's another 1st round exit,then once again he'll prove me rite.

in toronto most of the time he was a backup, grant hill? are you serious they barely played together hill was always injured and mike miller was traded for gooden the only other good player in orlando was armstrong,oh yeah the year iverson won the mvp almost all of tmacs stats were better fg%,3pt%,ppg,rpg, same apg,bpg and tmac almost averaged one less turnover a game

cmellofan15
10-24-2008, 03:27 PM
T Mac gets blamed b/c he has no motivation, and when he gets that motivation he has no Yao. T Mac and Vince are one in the same, they're not inspired to play their hardest, and they don't. T Mac really doesn't have anything to prove, he's capable of winning games but when injuries come around, it hurts the team.

l GeArs l
10-24-2008, 03:46 PM
he gets blamed for it because some rocket fans thinks he is good as kobe ROFL

:confused: Who said that?

Chronz
10-24-2008, 03:55 PM
SOOOO lost...when did AI have the best team in the east?

The year they went to the finals obviously, you know the year his team won every individual award possible.


I know you arent talkin roster wise cuz he NEVER had a squad that should have gone to the finals.
Incorrect


What do you mean he almost cost his team a trip to the finals?
By playing like **** and letting series that had no business going 7 to go 7. I give him his props for playing like a man possessed in each of those game 7's but he had the best team around him regardless.


no AI meant no playoffs, let alone finals. hell if Tmac was there instead of AI, I guarantee you what would have happened....1 and out
Tmac wouldve taken that team to the Finals as well, he was simply better on both sides of the court.

hockeypro68
10-24-2008, 04:08 PM
Because he ALWAYS misses a *****load of games

Ballah0liC1
10-24-2008, 04:25 PM
Because he ALWAYS misses a *****load of games

prove it
give me some other great players missed games

JordansBulls
10-29-2008, 10:36 AM
Because he ALWAYS misses a *****load of games

He has had one season where he played 47 games. Every other season he has played at least 66 games since 2000.

KnicksorBust
10-29-2008, 12:12 PM
He gets so much blame because he's been a "franchise" player whose talent is through the roof. A guy who can contribute so much to every aspect of the game. Shooting, passing, rebounding, defense.

And yet he's been so unsuccessful in the playoffs.