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hoog
10-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Here's what I'd do if I were Dave this winter:

A: I'd sign all mid-level to low priced FA. My choices would be at shortstop, Ceasar Izturis, and then a better utility guy to replace Rayburn such as Jerry Hairston or Willie Bloomquist. At the bullpen spots I'd go after Juan Cruz and Dan Wheeler on the right side, then Jeremy Affeldt, Joe Beimel, and Mark Hendrickson (I know he was a starter but he did some nice relief work this year) on the left side. I'd also see what the bidding was for Fuentes but wouldn't go too high so we'd probably miss out. At catcher I'd look to sign Miguel Olivo or do a trade with Texas for Gerald Laird.

B: I'd look around to see what, if anything, I could get for Robertson and Rodney. Just getting rid of their salaries would be worth it. Anything else would be a bonus.

C. Starting pitching I'd give Verlander and Galarraga a spot and then have Bonderman, Minor, Willis, Garcia (if he'd sign a two way contract), and some prospects such as Lambert, Vasquez, Porcello, or a wild card like Guillermo Moscoso who's an older prospect who throws strikes and doesn't walk many. I'd also keep an eye on the FA market to see if I could squeeze an innings eater cheap.

D. I'm not trading any of my everyday guys no matter how much I need pitching at this point. The only one I'd consider would be Sheffield and I doubt he'll get any takers. If someone even sniffs around him he's gone.

E. Here's my first choice for roster next year:

1B- Cabrerra, Larish
2B- Polonco, Hairston
SS- Izturis, Santaigo
3B- Inge, Larish (Hairston)
C- Olivo, Ryan
DH- Sheffield, Larish
LF- Guillen, Joyce (Hairston)
CF- Granderson, Hairston (Joyce)
RF- Ordonez, Joyce (Hairston)

Starters- Verlander, Galaragga, and three from above (hopefully Willis, Minor, and Bonderman)

Bullpen-
Cruz and Zumaya- closer/set-up
Jeremy Affeldt (LH) and Freddy Dolsi (RH)- long/middle
Bobby Seay- LH specialist
*Other possibles include Robertson, Rodney, Lopez

Nizzle20
10-08-2008, 05:40 PM
Sure. And no other team plans on making a move with one of the guys you suggested. not to mention I did not see Thames name on that list. And you are expecting BOTH Bonderman and Zumaya to be healthy, let alone effective.

Lets be real here everyone. There are very few options we have. We are pretty much stuck with what we have in the bigs and minors. I expect one mid-level trade and one MAYBE two low-level free agents. Look for most of the moves made to be in house.

Kenny Rogers for bullpen coach and Jack Morris as pitching coach? Your thoughts???

Bondomania
10-08-2008, 08:52 PM
Bonderman will be healthy and ready to go.. he will start throwing next month.. currently he is at his home rehabing... Kenny went through the surgery and was fine.. it wasn't a major surgery to repair anything other than a blood clot.. so it isn't like Tommy John Surgery.. if anything the surgery will make bonderman more effective and better.. the blood clot was making his arm feel heavy, which makes me believe he was having trouble getting on top of his slider, and probably throwing off his mechanics because he was trying to pitch through it.. he should pick up a few more MPH on his fastball and his slider will be back to being as nasty as ever

stanpapi
10-08-2008, 10:37 PM
Bonderman's not a shoe-in to be fine. I mean, I half expect him to be okay, but we'll see. I am intrigued by Kenny as BP coach and Jack as pitching coach. Problem is we have the same coach-coach.

Nizzle20
10-08-2008, 10:44 PM
I have sold myself on Kenny as the bullpen coach. The preperation that man goes through before each start? The way he analyses film and tendencies of batters? And I know every pitcher on that team right now repects him and his knowledge of the game. I have little doubt that, by years end, he could have the rotation and pen more prepared then ever and very fundamentaly sound.

JackB
10-09-2008, 07:32 AM
Theres still one problem. They have to throw strikes. Or get the near the plate. I'm not trying to sound negative about Rogers but he isn't the one throwing the ball. Something was written about trying to get Leo Mazzone. He is one of the best pitching coaches ever. Baltimore had him working with Danny Cabrera a kid with all kinds of potantial.It didn't work out. I'm not saying in might not happen. I'm just making a point.

Bondomania
10-09-2008, 10:53 AM
well... it kind of worked out with Daniel Cabrera.. he got him to pitch better, but the kid is mentally weak.. and Leo cannot fix that

JackB
10-09-2008, 08:39 PM
But we are talking over two years. And you are right. He is a head case. As are Zumaya and Rodney.

Bondomania
10-10-2008, 11:04 PM
eh, Zumaya is young and immature.. i wouldn't say mentally weak.. Rodney is for sure.. Zumaya just needs to put together a full healthy season, and learn to use his curve and changeup more effectively

Dalionking
10-11-2008, 11:34 AM
if we dont go out and get a closer then we just added 10 -15 losses to next years total prior to the season.

as far as the pitching goes, we could go after burnett, lowe, pedro martinez but CC and sheets would be my #1 option

FatSacks
10-16-2008, 07:11 PM
if we dont go out and get a closer then we just added 10 -15 losses to next years total prior to the season.

as far as the pitching goes, we could go after burnett, lowe, pedro martinez but CC and sheets would be my #1 option

Bondo should be given a shot as the closer.

He has two effective pitches, fastball with a slider, but he's never been able to develop a change up. He's not the top of the rotation guy everyone thought he'd become and now he's having more health issues.

It may be the only way that Bondo can be effective and helpful to the team for an entire season.

mark1125
10-16-2008, 10:31 PM
Bondo should be given a shot as the closer.

He has two effective pitches, fastball with a slider, but he's never been able to develop a change up. He's not the top of the rotation guy everyone thought he'd become and now he's having more health issues.

It may be the only way that Bondo can be effective and helpful to the team for an entire season.


Considering Bondermans history in his first inning, the prospect of him in relief does not excite me.

Nizzle20
10-17-2008, 10:48 AM
Bondo should be given a shot as the closer.

He has two effective pitches, fastball with a slider, but he's never been able to develop a change up. He's not the top of the rotation guy everyone thought he'd become and now he's having more health issues.

It may be the only way that Bondo can be effective and helpful to the team for an entire season.


I absolutley love this idea. And, quite frankly, a bit perturbed at myself for not thinking about it.



Considering Bondermans history in his first inning, the prospect of him in relief does not excite me.

I highly doubt that this would be an issue. Starting and closing are completely different. Bonderman's thought process in starting would be to set up batters for later innings. Pitch selection changes throughout the game. Both hitters and pitchers adjust. But closing, he comes in, throws as hard as he can. Makes knees buckle with the nasty slider. No thoughts what so ever of what will happen next time through the order. Because there will be no next time.

Nizzle20
10-17-2008, 10:53 AM
Which leads me to another thought. Zumaya as a starter. He was developed in the farm system as a starter. I think getting him out of the pen and into a 1 in every 5 day position will be perfect for him. No more downing 5-6 Red Bulls just before running onto the field. Let him relax. Let Zumaya know that he has to be out there for 6+ inning. This more then likely will calm him down. Extend his career. We dont need him to through 100+. Ease back a bit. 94-96 range with his curve and a decent off speed pitch will make for a good starter.

Bondo to close, Zoom-Zoom to start.... Your thoughts?

Bondomania
10-17-2008, 01:01 PM
first off, bonderman only had 1 year in which he wasn't able to finish the season.. the guy is a horse and consistantly gives you 200+ innings.. and it isn't like the guy has been a failure, he just isn't an ace.. neither is Verlander.. no shame in that.. but he is a legit #2 or #3 starter.. and even though he lacks a consistant 3rd pitch, his two pitches a plus plus pitches that are hard to hit if they are going good.. he does have a changeup and he was starting to actually throw it more often this last year but then he got hurt...

Zoom will never be a starter.. you would have to send him down for an entire season to stretch him out first and foremost.. second, people question bonderman's health.. what about Zumaya, he cannot stay healthy to save himself.. what makes you think he can pitch 150 to 200 IP?? especially since his shoulder had a fracture which he had to be shut down for... and what decent offspeed offering??? his changeup is at the same stage as Bonderman's.. and he never really showed an ability to control his curve this last year...

Epic89
10-17-2008, 01:44 PM
Ladies and gentleman, your 2008 Detroit Tigers pitching coach...


...Rick Knapp, former minor league coordinator for the Minnesota Twins

Nizzle20
10-17-2008, 04:28 PM
and he never really showed an ability to control his curve this last year...

thats because he pitched hurt. He should never have pitched this year. They rushed him back in hopes to salvage a lost season.

And please dont think I was degrading Bonderman in any way. I love the guy. He is still young. Has a fabulous fastball and slider. I love his mentality. In fact I still get grief from my friends cause I claimed he is the second coming of Roger Clemens. I wonder where Bonderman would be with a good pitching coach. For 3 years he didnt improve. I blame that on the coaching. If this new guy is worth anything, Bonderman will be a top 20 pitcher for many years.

I am still intrigued with him as a closer. I think he would be fabulous in that position. But the more I think about it, he is too valuable as a starter. The first inning woes were an aberation that will be remedied.