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Fribbles
10-05-2008, 08:29 PM
Maroney sucks im sick of him. He is the reason why we have a running back by committe. He is never healthy (really I think he is just a ***** who can't take a hit) he doesnt even lead the team in carries, he can't hit a hole for the life of him, and he dances around more than Jason Taylor on dancing with the stars. He totally blew a wide open hole against SF, he went outside as oppose to cutting inside and then ran outta bounds like a ***** who is afraid to get hit and missed the first down.

I say its time to get rid of him...anyone else agree?

BTownTeamsRKing
10-05-2008, 09:07 PM
no, your overreacting to Faulk's success.

Maroney will find it again soon. i have confidence in him. he always seems to start slow for some reason, but last year he was a big reason why we won some games down the stretch

The Intimidator
10-05-2008, 10:53 PM
Maroney sucks im sick of him. He is the reason why we have a running back by committe. He is never healthy (really I think he is just a ***** who can't take a hit) he doesnt even lead the team in carries, he can't hit a hole for the life of him, and he dances around more than Jason Taylor on dancing with the stars. He totally blew a wide open hole against SF, he went outside as oppose to cutting inside and then ran outta bounds like a ***** who is afraid to get hit and missed the first down.

I say its time to get rid of him...anyone else agree?

No, you're overreacting. Does he dance too much? Yes. Is he a bit indecisive at times? Sure. But the guy has shown some serious flashes of dominance in the past. The reason why the run game isn't that effective is Brady's injury. Opposing teams feel that with Cassel in there, they can just put all of their efforts into eliminating the run game, and force Cassel to beat them. Now you might notice that once the Pats aired it out a bit more today, the running game was able to develop. So bottom line: Don't overreact. Maroney will have you eating your words by season's end.

KingJamsI
10-06-2008, 12:47 AM
I would have to agree with the choir here, step back from the ledge. Maroney has his issues, but easy to ignore is this line- light, fast, and (relatively) weak. Runners like Maroney need big road-grader lines to put up the consistent big numbers. Guys who can lower their head and bang out 3-4 yards a carry (like Jordan or Morris) will find easier success. Corey Dillon had that 60%-40% blenk of power/explosiveness and that's what made him so successful here.

I digress. Laurence has his role, it is not as a feature back, but he is a weapon and will likely be responsible for some key victories down the line. He is a team player, a character guy, and has loads of raw ability...I promise you he will be in NE throughout his rookie contract.

griff141
10-06-2008, 02:52 AM
I'm with everyone else, your overreacting. Maroney has been fighting injuries thus far in the season. He will come on more when the passing game comes to fruition and defenses aren't crowding the line of scrimmage like they have been lately.

doesntmatter1
10-06-2008, 04:31 AM
i have seen him do some good stuff once he gets out of the backfield. he needs a fullback at all times. i dont think we should trade him yet but i dont think he was worth a 1st round pick. Though there weren't that many good backs to choose from when they drafted him they need to admit they made a mistake and draft a new franchise back. Someone in the mold of corey dillon maybe.

Lastly, if the pats don't pick up a 1st round running back next year i hope they get Trendon Holliday. He's a special back who can possibly make us forget about maroney.

BRADY4MVP
10-06-2008, 11:35 AM
i have seen him do some good stuff once he gets out of the backfield. he needs a fullback at all times. i dont think we should trade him yet but i dont think he was worth a 1st round pick. Though there weren't that many good backs to choose from when they drafted him they need to admit they made a mistake and draft a new franchise back. Someone in the mold of corey dillon maybe.

Lastly, if the pats don't pick up a 1st round running back next year i hope they get Trendon Holliday. He's a special back who can possibly make us forget about maroney.

im not about to trade him, but he certainly needs to remember how to run. too much dancing....lower your shoulder and pick up some yards...... his career so far in a microcosm....2nd down yesterday, 3rd quarter i think??? he is close to the near sideline...can lower his shoulder into the defender (P.willis) to get the 1 extra yard for a first down, or bail out of bounds... he stepped out, and the ref marked him about a half yard short. brings the pats into a unnecessary 3rd down, which thankfully they converted

??? 2006 NFL draft....#30 overall....to the Colts....Joseph Addai....#60...jacksonville...Maurice Jones-Drew......

both are pretty good running backs, although their numbers might not indicate it right now. I would take either of them over maroney.

bagwell368
10-06-2008, 11:41 AM
I have been somewhat frustrated with him since he got here. But in his defense the way he closed out last year was very impressive.

My belief is that he will end up like Watson. Both are very talented, oft injured, and have not quite made the grade to A level player - that's a pretty good way to be ignored at contract time. When his contract is up, the Pats will make a small effort to keep him (designed to be too low to take), and then be quietly pleased when he leaves.

ZHawk1123
10-06-2008, 11:42 AM
You act like an NFL trade is as common as a trade in the MLB or the NBA... Not gonna happen...

The Intimidator
10-06-2008, 02:09 PM
You act like an NFL trade is as common as a trade in the MLB or the NBA... Not gonna happen...

That's another factor to consider. You rarely see trades in the NFL, except in the offseason/draft.

griff141
10-06-2008, 03:37 PM
That's another factor to consider. You rarely see trades in the NFL, except in the offseason/draft.

agreed

BostonHooligan1
10-06-2008, 04:17 PM
i agree with everyone here, he isnt the best back in the league but he does break em loose everyonce and awhile...and hell you cant expect to have a good year running while every team is basicly playing you for the run....knowing that cassel will make mistakes and possibly cause many turnovers.

The Intimidator
10-06-2008, 04:58 PM
And here's another factor to consider: the running back by committee system can really work for us.

When we need a speed run to the outside, we can give the ball to Maroney.

When we're in a goal line situation, we give the ball to Old Reliable: Kevin Faulk.

When we need 3 big yards for a first down, we have LaMont Jordan pound the ball down the defense's throat.

When Maroney needs a breather, we give it to Sammy Morris. He also gets more carries as the game goes on, and shows the ability to break the big run.

Crickr
10-06-2008, 07:15 PM
Now don't get me wrong here. maroney has the ability to be a real stud. He has several weak spots however, First he dances way to much. We all saw more of that yesterday. The other is he can't stay healthy. Now I don't think the Pats should trade him his position on the team really needs t be looked at and re-examine him throughly.I know he showed flashes last year but this is aother year of injuries and indecisivness. He needs to improve IMO.

kazzy4080
10-07-2008, 01:18 AM
i think maroney is turning out to be a bust, he showed flashes of brilliance his rookie year, and last year had good games and even strings of good games but when the pats need him the most he seems to fade (the superbowl, this year now that bradys gone and we need maroney to step the **** up).

i have lost all confidence in this kid and if he doesnt improve this year we have to find a good running back in the offseason or in the draft

steelcityroller
10-07-2008, 07:11 AM
I gave him his walking papers. I fired his *** and picked up La'ron McClain in my fantasy league.

The Intimidator
10-07-2008, 09:42 AM
That's a good move for you...Maroney isn't a good fantasy back.

bagwell368
10-07-2008, 12:06 PM
BB again shows his genius - this time with the RB slot.

He avoids a feature back:


that will cost a lot to keep

more likely to end up with a lot of injury problems.

If you look around the league there are less the 10 teams that now have a obvious #1 back, that's way down in the past 3 years alone.

With this rotation of older guys that just cost $$ (and not picks), and an occasional pick in the top 3 rounds to stay fresh the Pats can have a good solid and cheap if not brilliant corps of RB's.

Obviously we'd like to have the next LT, but go look at how many #1 RB's have been pick in round 1 since LT that are not as good, its a boat load. RB's have the shortest positional life in the NFL - blowing a #1 on a brilliant (say Gayle Sayers), but short lived back (GS) isn't as smart as retread and a #1 on a DL, LB, LG, TE, etc.

pc4celts39
10-07-2008, 02:09 PM
That's a good move for you...Maroney isn't a good fantasy back.

He isnt a good NFL back either, awful first round pick, not saying i knew that at the time but i think its time to give up on him

The Intimidator
10-07-2008, 04:51 PM
He isnt a good NFL back either, awful first round pick, not saying i knew that at the time but i think its time to give up on him

I'm glad you aren't running the team then...

bagwell368
10-07-2008, 07:41 PM
Let's see, he'll be 24 in Feb, the same age as a lot of 2nd year backs. His life time yards per carry is 4.3 (pretty damn good), let's review the RB's with career 4.3 averages :eyebrow::

Tony Dorsett
Marshall Faulk
Joeseph Addai
Earl Campbell
Corey Dillon
Lawrence McCutheon
Chuck Muncie
Larry Csonka

Here are guys that are at 4.2 or lower:

Emmitt Smith
Edgerrin James
Marcus Allen
Herschel Walker
Thurman Thomas
Roger Craig

Since Dec 16th last year he has played in 8 games (including 3 playoff games) and averaged 4.9 YPG.

12/16/07 26 for 104
12/23/07 14 for 156
12/29/07 19 for 46
01/12/08 22 for 122
01/20/08 25 for 122
02/03/08 14 for 36
09/07/08 10 for 51
09/14/08 8 for 16
10/05/08 10 for 26

That's some nice run. If he can maintain that, then he is in Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown territory. His first game this year was 10 for 5.1 (5.1 average). now he's had two crummy games since, and all of a sudden you want to cut him? trade him? get real.

Crickr
10-08-2008, 09:16 AM
Remember the noock on him ae his hjealth and his dancing. I know he has a lot of talent but all the talent in the world doesn't mean crap if he is not healthy enough to play--- thus the 4 running backs that the pats nopw have.

bagwell368
10-08-2008, 10:46 AM
Remember the noock on him ae his hjealth and his dancing. I know he has a lot of talent but all the talent in the world doesn't mean crap if he is not healthy enough to play--- thus the 4 running backs that the pats nopw have.

I did not forget.

Do not forget the following:

The season ending injury to Morris was probably the #1 underlying cause for the SB loss. Morris had a very unusual and dangerous injury for a NFL player, he could go at any moment, and IMO probably will be hung onto if he can play because he gets $750k if cut before the end of 2009.

If Jordan had been available the same time as Morris when we got him for the same terms, I am sure he would have been taken over Morris because of his ability out of the backfield. He has been hurt in his career before as well as this year. Jordan has a one year contract for $850k with no bells or whistles, he may be gone too.

Faulk isn't a comp for anyone else and is making $2.8M per year, and that's good as long as he puts out, which could end at any time. Jordan would be used as a replacement this year.

According to Wiki, the average career length of a RB in the NFL is 2.6 years. When you have 4 guys that are all higher then that - 3 of them by quite a bit, it's a good idea to have spares - like every other team. Our spares are just better then most teams. Good for us.

Don't get me wrong. I wish he was better, but given the set of circumstances coming up for '09 and '10, you have to fit what you do with him into all of that:

Need:

ILB - replace the hopefully retiring Tedy
TE, maybe two - to replace Watson, and the crap behind him
LT - move Light to RT
G - get a fresh body
CB - get a real one
RB - with 3 guys close to retirement, and a guy probably going FA (Maroney) they have a lot of need here.
WR - start grooming whats next.

Hang onto:

as much of the DL as they can which is going to put them in poor house - either Green or Seymour are most likely to go.

Brady? Back full speed? or time to cut ties?

Crickr
10-08-2008, 12:01 PM
I did not forget.

Do not forget the following:

The season ending injury to Morris was probably the #1 underlying cause for the SB loss. Morris had a very unusual and dangerous injury for a NFL player, he could go at any moment, and IMO probably will be hung onto if he can play because he gets $750k if cut before the end of 2009.

If Jordan had been available the same time as Morris when we got him for the same terms, I am sure he would have been taken over Morris because of his ability out of the backfield. He has been hurt in his career before as well as this year. Jordan has a one year contract for $850k with no bells or whistles, he may be gone too.

Faulk isn't a comp for anyone else and is making $2.8M per year, and that's good as long as he puts out, which could end at any time. Jordan would be used as a replacement this year.

According to Wiki, the average career length of a RB in the NFL is 2.6 years. When you have 4 guys that are all higher then that - 3 of them by quite a bit, it's a good idea to have spares - like every other team. Our spares are just better then most teams. Good for us.

Don't get me wrong. I wish he was better, but given the set of circumstances coming up for '09 and '10, you have to fit what you do with him into all of that:

Need:

ILB - replace the hopefully retiring Tedy
TE, maybe two - to replace Watson, and the crap behind him
LT - move Light to RT
G - get a fresh body
CB - get a real one
RB - with 3 guys close to retirement, and a guy probably going FA (Maroney) they have a lot of need here.
WR - start grooming whats next.

Hang onto:

as much of the DL as they can which is going to put them in poor house - either Green or Seymour are most likely to go.

Brady? Back full speed? or time to cut ties?


You are right my frieind.

Patsfan56
10-08-2008, 12:10 PM
I did not forget.

Do not forget the following:

The season ending injury to Morris was probably the #1 underlying cause for the SB loss. Morris had a very unusual and dangerous injury for a NFL player, he could go at any moment, and IMO probably will be hung onto if he can play because he gets $750k if cut before the end of 2009.

If Jordan had been available the same time as Morris when we got him for the same terms, I am sure he would have been taken over Morris because of his ability out of the backfield. He has been hurt in his career before as well as this year. Jordan has a one year contract for $850k with no bells or whistles, he may be gone too.

Faulk isn't a comp for anyone else and is making $2.8M per year, and that's good as long as he puts out, which could end at any time. Jordan would be used as a replacement this year.

According to Wiki, the average career length of a RB in the NFL is 2.6 years. When you have 4 guys that are all higher then that - 3 of them by quite a bit, it's a good idea to have spares - like every other team. Our spares are just better then most teams. Good for us.

Don't get me wrong. I wish he was better, but given the set of circumstances coming up for '09 and '10, you have to fit what you do with him into all of that:

Need:

ILB - replace the hopefully retiring Tedy
TE, maybe two - to replace Watson, and the crap behind him
LT - move Light to RT
G - get a fresh body
CB - get a real one
RB - with 3 guys close to retirement, and a guy probably going FA (Maroney) they have a lot of need here.
WR - start grooming whats next.

Hang onto:

as much of the DL as they can which is going to put them in poor house - either Green or Seymour are most likely to go.

Brady? Back full speed? or time to cut ties?

Bagwell, I swear when I see you have posted on a thread its like I don't even need to weigh in at all, except to commend you on a good post.

bagwell368
10-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Jeez... you guys make me blush.

Hopefully I will get a job shortly, and then I'll be down to about 2 posts a week... oh well, all things must end.

But the Pats will go on!

pc4celts39
10-08-2008, 02:33 PM
I'm glad you aren't running the team then...

well look at the guy who is running the team, he has a running back by committee so obviously he isn't sold on maroney either.....if maroney was as good as he is supposed to be then we wouldnt need to have signed jordan in the offseason

The Intimidator
10-08-2008, 03:23 PM
well look at the guy who is running the team, he has a running back by committee so obviously he isn't sold on maroney either.....if maroney was as good as he is supposed to be then we wouldnt need to have signed jordan in the offseason

No, it means that we have different backs for different situations. Jordan is the back that you go to when you need a couple yards in a big situation, Faulk is our 3rd down playmaker, Maroney is our featured speed back and Morris can pick up chunks of yards at will. It's a great system, actually. Most teams, if not every team, are going to a multiple RB rotation where carries are split, including:

Patriots (Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris, Kevin Faulk, LaMont Jordan)
Bills (Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson)
Dolphins (Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams)
Jets (Thomas Jones, Leon Washington)
Ravens (Le'Ron McClain, Willis McGahee, Ray Rice)
Bengals (Cedric Benson, Chris Perry)
Steelers (Willie Parker, Mewelde Moore)
Browns (Jamal Lewis, Jason Wright)
Texans (Steve Slaton, Ahman Green)
Jaguars (Fred Taylor, Maurice Jones-Drew)
Titans (Chris Johnson, LenDale White)
Colts (Joseph Addai, Dominic Rhodes)
Broncos (Selvin Young, Michael Pittman)
Raiders (Justin Fargas, Darren McFadden)
Chiefs (Larry Johnson, Jamaal Charles)
Chargers (Tomlinson, Sproles)
Cowboys (Marion Barber III, Felix Jones)
Redskins (Clinton Portis, Ladell Betts)
Eagles (Brian Westbrook, Correll Buckhalter)
Giants (Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward)
Bears (Matt Forte, Kevin Jones)
Lions (Rudi Johnson, Kevin Smith)
Packers (Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson)
Vikings (Adrian Peterson, Chester Taylor)
Falcons (Michael Turner, Jerious Norwood)
Panthers (DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart)
Saints (Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas, Deuce McAllister)
Buccaneers (Earnest Graham, Warrick Dunn)
Seahawks (Julius Jones, Maurice Morris, T.J. Duckett)
Rams (Steven Jackson, Brian Leonard)
Cardinals (Edgerrin James, Tim Hightower)
49ers (Frank Gore, DeShaun Foster)

So, as you can see, every team in the league at least utilizes their backup RB many times throughout their games. The Pats are the only team that uses a four back rotation, but as you can see, there are three other teams who use a three back rotation (Seattle, New Orleans, Baltimore). So no, it's not that the Pats have no confidence in Maroney, it's just that they want different backs to play in different situations.

bagwell368
10-08-2008, 03:50 PM
well look at the guy who is running the team, he has a running back by committee so obviously he isn't sold on maroney either.....if maroney was as good as he is supposed to be then we wouldnt need to have signed jordan in the offseason

Thanks Intimidator... great response.

Did you notice the injury Morris sustained last year and his age? And the age of Faulk? Even if Maroney was less injured and more successful he would likely have brought Jordan in, at that price? Why not?

The Intimidator
10-08-2008, 04:07 PM
Thanks Intimidator... great response.

Did you notice the injury Morris sustained last year and his age? And the age of Faulk? Even if Maroney was less injured and more successful he would likely have brought Jordan in, at that price? Why not?

Exactly, and when you see a guy like LaMont Jordan available for next to nothing, you pick him up. The more depth you have at any position is a positive thing. The fact that we play all four of our backs means that they're talented, not that the team doesn't have confidence in the starter.

NYMETS6986
10-08-2008, 10:34 PM
i completely agree, maroney has been a bust and i cant stand him any longer, package him up and try to get larry johnson ( i hear hes available) so we can have a running threat this year since our passing attack is mediocre right now at best...

J-E-T-S
10-08-2008, 11:55 PM
You should also trade Tom Brady since he is injured and not doing anything to benefit the team at this point in time.

MAroney is a good Rb and could be a great, but he cant stay healthy! Hopefully he is able to get over this hump, but as of right now his status is up in the air. Hey at least he is not Cadillac Williams who's career is over!

ERLynx
10-09-2008, 09:29 AM
Yes lets trade him. Either for LT or Peterson. Nothing less than that.

What do you guys who are calling for a trade think we can get for him? Someone way better? Get real. This isn't Madden.

bagwell368
10-09-2008, 09:59 AM
Yes lets trade him. Either for LT or Peterson. Nothing less than that.

What do you guys who are calling for a trade think we can get for him? Someone way better? Get real. This isn't Madden.

Given the salary cap, in season trades are almost impossible. In between, you could but since he is only under contract through the end of '10, his value is limited to the difference of him and a FA that could be had for less money (say a clone of Jordan), what's that difference a 4th? The same could be said of almost any non "A" level player.

He is going to play here until (in order of being likely IMO):

#1 his contract is over, and not picked up
#2 new contract signed (extension of existing deal, or new one)
#3 he gets injured and cut
#4 he gets traded for a pick
#5 he gets cut for being bad

BRADY4MVP
10-09-2008, 11:36 AM
i completely agree, maroney has been a bust and i cant stand him any longer, package him up and try to get larry johnson ( i hear hes available) so we can have a running threat this year since our passing attack is mediocre right now at best...

while we are at it, have the chiefs add dorsey as a "throw in"......

Bean
10-09-2008, 01:17 PM
while we are at it, have the chiefs add dorsey as a "throw in"......

I don't know... We might have to offer a 3rd or 4th round pick to make the little orange bar flip over to green.

Maroney's good, but he wasn't worth the first round pick. I've been thinking lately about how the Patriots could've had Addai or MJD, and it seems like this is one of the two first picks that Belichick has dropped the ball on. As has been said, everyone but Maroney is getting older and all of the RBs on the roster except Faulk are injury prone. I would hope the Patriots pick up another RB in the draft this year after they take care of the OL and ILB. We don't need Marion Barber, but it would be nice to have somebody who can plow through the middle after Faulk is retired.

ERLynx
10-09-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't know... We might have to offer a 3rd or 4th round pick to make the little orange bar flip over to green.

Maroney's good, but he wasn't worth the first round pick. I've been thinking lately about how the Patriots could've had Addai or MJD, and it seems like this is one of the two first picks that Belichick has dropped the ball on. As has been said, everyone but Maroney is getting older and all of the RBs on the roster except Faulk are injury prone. I would hope the Patriots pick up another RB in the draft this year after they take care of the OL and ILB. We don't need Marion Barber, but it would be nice to have somebody who can plow through the middle after Faulk is retired.

Funny you should mention Barber. He is arguably better than Maroney right now, and was nowhere near as heralded in college. I like him better than Addai and MJD as well, but maybe that's just me.

Bean
10-09-2008, 01:44 PM
Funny you should mention Barber. He is arguably better than Maroney right now, and was nowhere near as heralded in college. I like him better than Addai and MJD as well, but maybe that's just me.

Barber is definately better than Maroney, I'm not sure how you could argue otherwise if you've been watching the NFL this season. I just used Addai and MJD because they were both in the same draft as Maroney.

ERLynx
10-09-2008, 03:22 PM
thats what i said.

Patsfan56
10-10-2008, 07:54 AM
It is a weird thing with Maroney. I can see the guy has talent, and speed, but for some reason he is not committing- "dancing" too much as they said on NESN this morning. Is he having a hard time seeing the hole? Are they not utilizing the right kind of plays for him? Is the line not doing their job? Or is he just hurt?

I think Maroney has shown glimpses of what he can bring to the table. Given how good BB is at exploiting payer strengths, I just don't get it. I like him as a player and would love to see him break a game open.

The Intimidator
10-10-2008, 09:51 AM
The bottom line is that the trade deadline is in a few days, and Maroney is staying. I love how no one responded to my rotation argument though. Apparently, the only way to judge a running back is by how many times he runs for 100 yards. :rolleyes:

bagwell368
10-10-2008, 10:25 AM
Intimidator - with you man, and add posts #18, 21, 23, 42 as supporting arguments.

Maroney stays.

I mean is this guy as hopeless as Donald Hayes or Monty Beisel or Eugene Wilson after the injury? No.

Maroney was 10th in all purpose yards in 2006. Last year I proposed this solution right here:

start to turn him into a 3rd down and rec back. when in space he runs well (he had 3-4 games in '06 when his hands were good and he was elusive). He does seem to have more trouble when the area is jammed up with lineman, why beat a dead horse? He isn't much bigger then Faulk. It will be a major effort to make him as good a blocker as Faulk or to have hands like Faulk, but 5-11 215 is pretty small for a 25 carry a game back also, so a tweener type isn't a bad idea either.

Faulk shows no signs of being done, so I would groom Maroney for the job while continuing to help him figure out how to hit the holes better.

He goes no place. There are only a few Pats coming off the books in '10 - Brady, Light, Moss, Morris, and Maroney (many more in '08, '09). IMO Moss and Morris are gone. Light will be signed cheap to play RT for a year or two. Brady and Maroney are more open to speculation. If Maroney never breaks out as a runner or a receiver - then he's gone.

The Intimidator
10-10-2008, 10:38 AM
Intimidator - with you man, and add posts #18, 21, 23, 42 as supporting arguments.

Maroney stays.

I mean is this guy as hopeless as Donald Hayes or Monty Beisel or Eugene Wilson after the injury? No.

Maroney was 10th in all purpose yards in 2006. Last year I proposed this solution right here:

start to turn him into a 3rd down and rec back. when in space he runs well (he had 3-4 games in '06 when his hands were good and he was elusive). He does seem to have more trouble when the area is jammed up with lineman, why beat a dead horse? He isn't much bigger then Faulk. It will be a major effort to make him as good a blocker as Faulk or to have hands like Faulk, but 5-11 215 is pretty small for a 25 carry a game back also, so a tweener type isn't a bad idea either.

Faulk shows no signs of being done, so I would groom Maroney for the job while continuing to help him figure out how to hit the holes better.

He goes no place. There are only a few Pats coming off the books in '10 - Brady, Light, Moss, Morris, and Maroney (many more in '08, '09). IMO Moss and Morris are gone. Light will be signed cheap to play RT for a year or two. Brady and Maroney are more open to speculation. If Maroney never breaks out as a runner or a receiver - then he's gone.

:cheers:

TheRedMarauder
10-10-2008, 03:23 PM
The Boston Globe's Christopher Gasper believes Laurence Maroney's shoulder injury is partially to blame for his hesitancy at the line of scrimmage.

Maroney danced at the line even more than normal against the 49ers in Week 5, and running backs coach Ivan Fears reportedly grew very frustrated with him during the game.

rotoworld

kobynum2417
10-12-2008, 02:39 AM
get rid

kobynum2417
10-12-2008, 02:39 AM
now

celticfan
10-12-2008, 11:47 AM
He will come around.

SwaggaIke
10-12-2008, 12:06 PM
LMAO @ Maroney being a bust when he ONLY carried the ball 185 times last year for a 4.5 ypc average and 6 td's. You can't stop an illness from overcoming you. Had the Pats not been a 70/30 team last year he would have put up monster numbers. A 4.5 ypc average and only 185 attempts? And he's a bust, are you serious? A 4.3 ypc average for his career and he's a bust? This thread is truly laughable IMHO.

doesntmatter1
10-24-2008, 09:55 AM
i am tired of maroney and i said this earlier in this post i believe but someone was wondering if it was him or the play calling and it is a little bit of both. Yes he likes to dance but i can't be the only one to notice how obvious it is when the pats run the ball with maroney but for someone reason i am never 100 percent sure what they are going to do when faulk is in the game. And maroney likes to see whats developing ahead of him because it seems like he is always thinking about taking it to the house instead of a good run of 4-5 yards so he gets caught in the backfield(something that almost never happens to morris). I noticed maroney runs better when he has a fullback or when they run a hb counter because it holds the lbs just a little. He also runs very good out of shotgun. I wish i could find his shotgun run statistics.

ERLynx
10-24-2008, 10:03 AM
You act like an NFL trade is as common as a trade in the MLB or the NBA... Not gonna happen...

exactly. plus the trade deadline passed.

i'd love to see them pick up another RB in the draft, though. having maroney as a Reggie Bush type option on specific downs could be cool. not that he's as good as Bush.

bagwell368
10-24-2008, 10:09 AM
plus he is on IR, I believe that precludes any trades. only roster moves, and if you are going to cut a guy with his flashes of brilliance for nothing (actually take a big $$ hit) watch the suitors line up to get him.

Only if he is some bizarre clubhouse cancer, or is failing ink blots does that happen. Get real.

TheRedMarauder
10-24-2008, 10:38 AM
After this injury I think'd be pretty dumb for the Pats to trade as they wouldn't get near any good value for him.

The Intimidator
10-24-2008, 01:01 PM
After this injury I think'd be pretty dumb for the Pats to trade as they wouldn't get near any good value for him.

Exactly.

Vthockeydad
10-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Maroney sucks im sick of him. He is the reason why we have a running back by committe. He is never healthy (really I think he is just a ***** who can't take a hit) he doesnt even lead the team in carries, he can't hit a hole for the life of him, and he dances around more than Jason Taylor on dancing with the stars. He totally blew a wide open hole against SF, he went outside as oppose to cutting inside and then ran outta bounds like a ***** who is afraid to get hit and missed the first down.

I say its time to get rid of him...anyone else agree?

I disagree 100 %. A lot of us are frustrated with his injuries. He is hurt, what do you do ? He is a great running back when he is healthy and we would not get 30 cents on the dollar

The Intimidator
10-25-2008, 11:20 AM
I disagree 100 %. A lot of us are frustrated with his injuries. He is hurt, what do you do ? He is a great running back when he is healthy and we would not get 30 cents on the dollar

That being said, I fully expect the Pats to spend a draft pick on a RB next April. Maroney puts up his best numbers when he's splitting carries with another solid RB. That's why he put up such good numbers at U Minnesota, IMO. He had Marion the Barbarian there with him.

Crickr
10-25-2008, 04:49 PM
If you read between the lines Josh McDanniels said that he liked Benjarvus Green-Ellis (sp)because he didn't dance at the line.

The Intimidator
10-25-2008, 05:23 PM
If you read between the lines Josh McDanniels said that he liked Benjarvus Green-Ellis (sp)because he didn't dance at the line.

You got the spelling right. :D

The Intimidator
10-25-2008, 06:58 PM
Okay, I'm sitting here in my dorm room because pouring here in New Jersey, and I'm really bored, so I decided to hit up this topic again. Here's a list of running backs I think the Pats will take a serious look at in the upcoming draft. I don't rank these players on their overall ranking, but rather by how good they are and if they will be available when the Pats pick. This list is subject to change, of course. Enjoy!

1. LeSean McCoy-Pittsburgh (5-11, 207 lbs.)
Analysis: McCoy is the best RB around not named Wells or Moreno, and he plays in Dave Wannstedt's pro-style offense at Pitt. Furthermore, McCoy runs a 4.4 in the 40 yard dash, is averaging 5.1 yards per carry, and has 14 touchdowns so far this season. The Pats would most likely have to spend a first round pick if they want McCoy, so take that for what it's worth.
2. Javon Ringer-Michigan State (5-9, 203 lbs.)
Analysis: Ringer is in the midst of a potential Heisman winning season, as he has rushed for over 1,300 yards already, along with 15 touchdowns and a 4.6 yards per carry average. His 40 yard dash time isn't as great as some of the other backs in this draft class, but he is extremely elusive. He will have to put on some weight if he wants to be successful in the NFL, however. If the Pats want Ringer, he should drop to the second round.
3. Rashad Jennings-Liberty (6-1, 232 lbs.)
Analysis: If you haven't heard of this guy, you're not alone. He is a big back from 1-AA, and he has absolutely carried the Liberty Flames this season, with 873 yards, 9 touchdowns, and a 5.9 yards per carry average. Also, despite being so big, his 40 yard dash time is an impressive 4.45. Jennings would be a great option for the Pats, as he will probably be available in the fourth round, and just like Matt Forte of the Bears, could be a draft steal.
4. C.J. Spiller-Clemson (5-11, 192 lbs.)
Analysis: Known as "Lightning", Spiller and teammate James Davis have been a great combo during their time at Clemson. He could be a fit for the Pats because he, like Laurence Maroney, is mainly a platoon back. Spiller has 48 carries for 314 yards (6.5 yards per carry) and 5 touchdowns this season, and also has big play capability out of the backfield. Spiller's most impressive feature is his 4.3 40 yard dash time, hence the nickname of "Lightning". Spiller will probably be a second round pick, so once again take that for what it's worth.
5. P.J. Hill-Wisconsin (5-11, 233 lbs.)
Analysis: Hill's stock has fallen this year, but that is due mainly to the lackluster season Wisconsin is having, and the lack of an offensive line the Badgers have. Hill does not have an impressive 40 yard dash time, just 4.6, but is averaging almost 5 yards per carry and will be available in the 6th-7th round. He very well could be a quality NFL back.

bagwell368
10-25-2008, 11:18 PM
Besides Maroney the Pats under BB have not drafted another RB 1st or 2nd round - I believe 3rd round too but I don't have time to check. I doubt that they will this time. Plan on some other Sammy Morris type pick up.

Ironic I think that Ben Watson who plays a position that suffers far less injuries then RB's and has a longer track record then Maroney - and at least as disapointing if not more dissapointing then Maroney gets a bye around here while you all pound Maroney.

Watson was a #1 pick. His hands are like brikcs. He can't block very well. He is hurt a lot. And yet not a wimper. IMO Watson is a bigger bust then Maroney any day of the week.

Probably both will not be resigned. But it is almost inconceivable that the Pats would eat all of Maroney's salary and bonus package - nuts in fact. Get used to having both of them until the original rookie deal runs its course.

The Intimidator
10-25-2008, 11:44 PM
Besides Maroney the Pats under BB have not drafted another RB 1st or 2nd round - I believe 3rd round too but I don't have time to check. I doubt that they will this time. Plan on some other Sammy Morris type pick up.

Ironic I think that Ben Watson who plays a position that suffers far less injuries then RB's and has a longer track record then Maroney - and at least as disapointing if not more dissapointing then Maroney gets a bye around here while you all pound Maroney.

Watson was a #1 pick. His hands are like brikcs. He can't block very well. He is hurt a lot. And yet not a wimper. IMO Watson is a bigger bust then Maroney any day of the week.

Probably both will not be resigned. But it is almost inconceivable that the Pats would eat all of Maroney's salary and bonus package - nuts in fact. Get used to having both of them until the original rookie deal runs its course.

My theory was that the Pats hold onto Maroney and draft someone to split carries with him. And I agree, it's unlikely that a first round pick is spent on a RB, I was just throwing out names of guys who would fit our system. As for Watson, I think you will agree with me when I say that the position of tight end is not as glamorized as the position of running back. Watson has certainly been a disappointment, but last year nobody noticed because of the 16-0 regular season, and the offensive records the Pats set while compiling that record. His injury problems have not been talked about this season most likely because of the fact that we have sustained a barrage of injuries this season, and Watson just kind of gets lost in the shuffle. Another reason is that the tight end position is not really utilized in our offense, like it is in San Diego, Kansas City, or Washington. For those reasons, I don't think that fans have as much concern about Watson. Has he been a bust so far? Yes. But compared to the slow start to Maroney's career, it's nothing.

bagwell368
10-26-2008, 12:27 AM
Has he been a bust so far -Watson -? Yes. But compared to the slow start to Maroney's career, it's nothing.

I'm forced to disagree. It doesn't matter how glam a position is, it matters that both are #1's that a lot was expected of.

Watson has played 44 games in 4.33 years (10.1 games per year). He has averaged 12.7 yds on 122 career receptions - 2.7 catches per game. He is well known for drops. He is a **** blocker.

Maroney has averaged 12.9 games per year pace in his 2.33 year long career. He owns a career 4.3 YPC - which he has in common with quite a few HOF backs. He had a stretch of about 7 games last year wrapping into this year (which I posted here before) where he average 5.1 YPC - that's Gale Sayers and Jim Brown territory. When he gets the two years Watson has over him we will see if Maroney is great, OK, or a bust.

But to claim Maroney is a bigger bust then Watson at this date is an argument built on a very thin foundation - esp considering the rate of injury that RB's have over TE's, and the fact that Watson's draft date puts his career at 40% longer then Maroney's at this point in time.

The Intimidator
10-26-2008, 12:43 AM
I'm forced to disagree. It doesn't matter how glam a position is, it matters that both are #1's that a lot was expected of.

Watson has played 44 games in 4.33 years (10.1 games per year). He has averaged 12.7 yds on 122 career receptions - 2.7 catches per game. He is well known for drops. He is a **** blocker.

Maroney has averaged 12.9 games per year pace in his 2.33 year long career. He owns a career 4.3 YPC - which he has in common with quite a few HOF backs. He had a stretch of about 7 games last year wrapping into this year (which I posted here before) where he average 5.1 YPC - that's Gale Sayers and Jim Brown territory. When he gets the two years Watson has over him we will see if Maroney is great, OK, or a bust.

But to claim Maroney is a bigger bust then Watson at this date is an argument built on a very thin foundation - esp considering the rate of injury that RB's have over TE's, and the fact that Watson's draft date puts his career at 40% longer then Maroney's at this point in time.

Look, I'm not saying that Maroney is a bust yet by any means, I'm just saying that at this point in his career, he has not lived up to any of his expectations. You could also make the argument that Maroney's yards per carry rate is in a much smaller sampling than any of the guys you mentioned before. He is not taking on the kind of workload that a normal starting NFL RB does. But enough about Maroney. Watson, at least for his first three seasons in New England, was splitting time with Daniel Graham for the most part. This could very well explain his lack of offensive numbers. And while he has had some injury trouble, so do a great deal of TE's. Now, I can't excuse his poor blocking, but one can only assume that a lack of timing could explain that. He has been bitten by the injury bug, like Maroney, and there's no question that both have underachieved as first round picks. But IMO, whenever Watson is out there on the playing field, he is a TE with big play capability.

futureheisman
10-26-2008, 11:47 AM
I would give him one more season but i think he will cut

The Intimidator
10-26-2008, 01:15 PM
Dude, you really lack football knowledge. You don't cut someone like that. My god.

futureheisman
10-26-2008, 03:08 PM
you dont have any football knowledge someone who is not perfroming you cut them. He is injury prone and gets drop for losses way too much. You tell me why he wouldnt be a candidate to get cut

The Intimidator
10-26-2008, 04:15 PM
you dont have any football knowledge someone who is not perfroming you cut them. He is injury prone and gets drop for losses way too much. You tell me why he wouldnt be a candidate to get cut

I'll steal this stat from Bagwell: 4.3 career yards per carry. That doesn't warrant being cut. What the Pats need to do is draft someone to split carries with him.

bagwell368
10-26-2008, 10:38 PM
He is not taking on the kind of workload that a normal starting NFL RB does.

The Patriots like other teams have been in a rotation system at RB for several years. They did it at S until Harrison went down, they did it at TE as you mention below. They rotate the DL line out also. Stay fresh and healthy - good idea, and not Maroney's fault.

In the pre game show today on WBCN, when asked if the Kraft's were upset about Maroney dancing at the line Jonathan Kraft said that Maroney "suffered a material injury" and tried to play through it. "any drop off in performance was due to the injury" and "he has been an excellent back when healthy".


I guess he gets negative points for being hurt, which is odd because every other Pat gets a bye for injuries.




But enough about Maroney. Watson, at least for his first three seasons in New England, was splitting time with Daniel Graham for the most part. This could very well explain his lack of offensive numbers.

I think you have your dates wrong. The first year - Watson was gone for the season after the first game. The following two years that they were on the team together Graham caught 16 and 21 passes respectively - in 11 and 12 games played. Hardly a roadblock to Watson since they are totally different players. However Watson's hands are so bad that he is like Graham without the ability to block. I can't wait until some stupid team comes along and signs him for big money. He'll be a big a bust as Patten.


And while he has had some injury trouble, so do a great deal of TE's. Now, I can't excuse his poor blocking, but one can only assume that a lack of timing could explain that. He has been bitten by the injury bug, like Maroney, and there's no question that both have underachieved as first round picks. But IMO, whenever Watson is out there on the playing field, he is a TE with big play capability.

Wow! I needed a laugh. Watson is a massive failure. It almost looked like he might be that player in '06, but once Welker and Moss showed up, Watson has been relegated to #5 option after Gaffney and Faulk.

06: 49 for 643
07: 36 for 389
08: 06 for 057

The Intimidator
10-27-2008, 12:35 AM
I meant "big play" as in his yards per catch, which is extremely high.

bagwell368
10-27-2008, 09:30 AM
you dont have any football knowledge someone who is not perfroming you cut them. He is injury prone and gets drop for losses way too much. You tell me why he wouldnt be a candidate to get cut

This isn't High School. There is a salary cap, and there are severe repercussions in cutting someone with a guaranteed contract. To wit:

If he is cut today, it will cost the Pats $3,192,500 paid to Maroney thru 2010. They cannot replace that money on the roster.

You really honestly believe that a guy who played through an injury before he shut it down should be paid $3M+ to sit at home, and then have to put a team on the field minus his money? Given your stadards, this would be a team of Hank Poteats. No thanks.

Think first.

Patsfan56
10-27-2008, 09:43 AM
This isn't High School. There is a salary cap, and there are severe repercussions in cutting someone with a guaranteed contract. To wit:

If he is cut today, it will cost the Pats $3,192,500 paid to Maroney thru 2010. They cannot replace that money on the roster.

You really honestly believe that a guy who played through an injury before he shut it down should be paid $3M+ to sit at home, and then have to put a team on the field minus his money? Given your stadards, this would be a team of Hank Poteats. No thanks.

Think first.

Cutting Maroney makes absolutely zero sense. There is no upside to cutting him- no advantage for the Pats to do so. Why not leave him on the IR and see how next preseason goes? It is true, when healthy, he is great. But he is hurt a lot. I don't think the injuries are his fault, as frustrating as it is. Hell, everyone is going down it seems. I commend Maroney for trying to play through the injury. But I am concerned that if he can't stay healthy then we will need to start looking for someone who can next season.

This is also just huge bad luck with Morris and Jordan hurt as well, which just makes the issue more apparent. Maybe instead of blaming Maroney we should be asking why so many of our players are getting injured. Are all of these clean injuries, or is there a chance other teams are still pissed about last season and lighting up our players. So far, I haven't seen one Pats injury that looked dirty. Just a question. How do our injury stats line up with other teams?

bagwell368
10-27-2008, 09:46 AM
I meant "big play" as in his yards per catch, which is extremely high.

In 2007, when the Pats were shattering passing records left and right, Watson was 36 for 389 - 10.8 ypc

Here are some of the more productive TE's in the NFL in 2007:

Tony G 99 for 1172 - 11.9
Gates - 75 for 984 - 13.1
Whitten - 96 for 1145 - 11.9
Cooley - 66 for 786 - 11.9

Watson's impressive ypc years were in '05 (29 - 441 - 15.2 ypc) and '06 (49 for 643 - 13.1 ypc) where he was still vastly less productive then guys like these due to the simple fact that he wasn't catching that many balls. Not an elite receiver - perhaps average, but a brutally useless blocker = near bust. Unless he comes back for $1M a year, he's going someplace else where they can wonder how they got ripped off so bad.

Ewagner
10-27-2008, 11:27 AM
I agree with the opinion that the patriots need to draft a second running back to go with maroney. they need 1A and 1B. all the backs with the exception of faulk are all the same back. they need someone who can break that homerun. they need, i'm not saying these players specifically, a chris johnson, felix jones, or mjd. someone with just breakaway speed.

i think watson suffers from the same problem. i had mentioned this in another thread. they need another TE who can block and go out and catch 18-20 balls a year and can be a 6th o-line man. that was the plus of having graham. he was an amazing blocker and he kept teams honest because they were never sure if watson or graham were going out. teams just line up a pass rusher on watson side and make him look dumb.

cmoneytakemoney
10-27-2008, 03:29 PM
In 2007, when the Pats were shattering passing records left and right, Watson was 36 for 389 - 10.8 ypc

Here are some of the more productive TE's in the NFL in 2007:

Tony G 99 for 1172 - 11.9
Gates - 75 for 984 - 13.1
Whitten - 96 for 1145 - 11.9
Cooley - 66 for 786 - 11.9

Watson's impressive ypc years were in '05 (29 - 441 - 15.2 ypc) and '06 (49 for 643 - 13.1 ypc) where he was still vastly less productive then guys like these due to the simple fact that he wasn't catching that many balls. Not an elite receiver - perhaps average, but a brutally useless blocker = near bust. Unless he comes back for $1M a year, he's going someplace else where they can wonder how they got ripped off so bad.



I totally agree. After the game yesterday me and my Dad were talking about how Watson has completely disappeared this year when the tight end should be one of the biggest weapons for a young inexperienced QB like Cassel. Remember how much Brady used Jermain Wiggens in 2001? I definitively think Watson is a bust and, I believe the Patriots will draft or sign his replacement in the offseason.

futureheisman
10-27-2008, 03:53 PM
has ben watson playes this year. I havent heard much about him

The Intimidator
10-27-2008, 08:25 PM
Yeah, he's played the last 5 games dude.

Crickr
10-28-2008, 07:38 PM
Maroney will stay. He is to deep into the cap to dump him. My thoughts are this.. He will stay as one of the RB ( hopefully stopping his dancing ) and the Pats will pick up a free agent RB vs a high draft. They will probably draft one in the later round. Maroney will be used as a running back by comittie as he was this year.

NCBoSoxfan21
10-29-2008, 12:01 PM
Maroney is going to be a solid back, but I agree this 'made of glass' act needs to stop. I would say if he can't produce next year trade him away. I wish the Pats had grabbed Alexander or Benson over LaMont Jordan. They especially need to do something at RB if Morris is more hurt than he lets on.

The Intimidator
10-29-2008, 12:21 PM
Maroney is going to be a solid back, but I agree this 'made of glass' act needs to stop. I would say if he can't produce next year trade him away. I wish the Pats had grabbed Alexander or Benson over LaMont Jordan. They especially need to do something at RB if Morris is more hurt than he lets on.

Morris says he'll be back ASAP, so I wouldn't be too concerned...