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Lakersfan2483
10-05-2008, 06:17 AM
What will Vince Carter's legacy be after he retires? Is he an underachiever? Overrated? Should he be considered for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has accomplished thus far? What are your overall impressions of Vince Carter as a player?

arlubas
10-05-2008, 06:33 AM
I'd say he's an underachiever. No disrespect to him, I've always loved his game but the guy had so much talent and never really came close to competing at the upper levels in the playoffs. Still though he was an explosive scorer and a pretty all rounded player in general but certainly not the guy that would get your team to victory or will his way upon other teams. He'd be amazing on a team as the second option with a big post presence as the first though. As for him being a HOF I don't really think he deserves to be one based on his achievements but other players have gotten in as well which I didn't think were all time best talents either.

Faneik
10-05-2008, 06:53 AM
He'll be remembered for being a great dunker, nothing else...

No chance in being a HOF'er.

JJ81
10-05-2008, 07:00 AM
underachiever

JayW_1023
10-05-2008, 08:13 AM
He'll be remembered as a great scorer and for prolly being the best in game dunker of his generation. But not for his wins, that for sure. He has always been suited as a complementary star as opposed to being the main guy.

Raidaz4Life
10-05-2008, 08:17 AM
He'll be remembered for being a great dunker, nothing else...

No chance in being a HOF'er.


underachiever

those are the two that I will always remember him by

JordansBulls
10-05-2008, 09:53 AM
What will Vince Carter's legacy be after he retires? Is he an underachiever? Overrated? Should he be considered for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has accomplished thus far? What are your overall impressions of Vince Carter as a player?

He needs to go the Mavs and win a title to have a shot. I say the Mavs because they need a SG the most followed by Utah. He would have a huge role on either team.

jellywuoo
10-05-2008, 09:58 AM
I like him more than T-Mac.
He is the guy that can bring passion to the team.
Still impressed by the 7-set series of the Eastern Semi-Finial featuring Vince and AI(Forget which year it is)

marvILLous
10-05-2008, 11:42 AM
He needs to go the Mavs and win a title to have a shot. I say the Mavs because they need a SG the most followed by Utah. He would have a huge role on either team.

It's funny but the raptors need a player exactly like vince to put us over the top

oshea225
10-05-2008, 11:51 AM
I'd say he's an underachiever. No disrespect to him, I've always loved his game but the guy had so much talent and never really came close to competing at the upper levels in the playoffs. Still though he was an explosive scorer and a pretty all rounded player in general but certainly not the guy that would get your team to victory or will his way upon other teams. He'd be amazing on a team as the second option with a big post presence as the first though. As for him being a HOF I don't really think he deserves to be one based on his achievements but other players have gotten in as well which I didn't think were all time best talents either.

agree with all that

xxepo
10-05-2008, 12:03 PM
a cry baby

JOSETHEALLSTAR
10-05-2008, 12:35 PM
good play but not a HOF

_Sn1P3r_
10-05-2008, 12:56 PM
It's funny but the raptors need a player exactly like vince to put us over the top

I know which sucks. If only he had left on a good note..

JIDsanity
10-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Hof

RapsGuy23
10-05-2008, 01:58 PM
Underachiever.....NOT A HOF!!! Vince's name could have been mentioned with the greats but he always seemed to lack the determination, passion, and commitment (to improving his game, to making his team better etc...) necessary to become a hof caliber player. Vince's Legacy of mediocrity will undoubtedly fade as the years pass by. If anything his dunking may be remembered (especially the famous Olympic leap and his appearances in the all star slam dunk comp).

Allow me to preemptively respond to those of you who will criticize my assertion that Vince's career was one of mediocrity. I know what Vince's career numbers are and if compared to the entire league they're well above average. Some would argue that his above average career numbers and his dunking achievements would make him anything but average and far from mediocre. But when you taken into account the praise and high expectations that the media, the public, and the NBA community gave to Vince in the early years of his career (to become a great player, and elieit HOF caliber superstar player) and the way his career his turned out to date he did not live up to the hype (he didn't even come close).

SaimoNETS
10-05-2008, 02:05 PM
Hof

SensandRaps
10-05-2008, 02:23 PM
hof for sure

JordansBulls
10-05-2008, 02:31 PM
It's funny but the raptors need a player exactly like vince to put us over the top

If Jermaine is healthy I agree that Vince could be the final piece of the puzzle.

C_Mund
10-05-2008, 02:52 PM
I think Vince truly could have been the next Jordan if he just wanted to win. There was always some outside force that was controlling his attitude, and he never made the commitment to winning. However, he was for sure one of the best players in the league when he was in his prime, dropping like 26-5-5, almost kobe-like numbers. The thing that upset me the most was how easy he was able to score ANY time he wanted to, but decided that shooting 3's was gonna be his thing.
I'd say that if he wins a chip (or makes it to the finals or something) he should be in the HOF. Best dunker of all time, and a great player to boot.
Suck it up and come back to Toronto!!

Chronz
10-05-2008, 02:58 PM
He shouldve never left Toronto but people will always see him as an underachiever but really the only thing that went wrong for him was the fact that he couldnt stay healthy. He was a great talent and despite what people think, he got the most out of his talent when he was completely healthy. After his injuries people wanted him to attack more not realizing thats what got him hurt in the first place, he altered his game and found ways to stay effective. At one point he was atop of the sporting world, the fact that he couldnt sustain that isnt entirely his fault so why fault him for it.

Easily a HOF caliber player but HOF is chosen by the dumbest of standards so he probably wont make it.

kntresistheheat
10-05-2008, 03:58 PM
If he goes to orlando and win a title, He might be a HOF?????


Howard
Lewis
Turk
Carter
Nelson:speechless::clap::speechless::clap:

JIDsanity
10-05-2008, 04:39 PM
He shouldve never left Toronto but people will always see him as an underachiever but really the only thing that went wrong for him was the fact that he couldnt stay healthy. He was a great talent and despite what people think, he got the most out of his talent when he was completely healthy. After his injuries people wanted him to attack more not realizing thats what got him hurt in the first place, he altered his game and found ways to stay effective. At one point he was atop of the sporting world, the fact that he couldnt sustain that isnt entirely his fault so why fault him for it.

Easily a HOF caliber player but HOF is chosen by the dumbest of standards so he probably wont make it.

word

Nets fan 93
10-05-2008, 06:45 PM
He needs to go the Mavs and win a title to have a shot. I say the Mavs because they need a SG the most followed by Utah. He would have a huge role on either team.
What the hell is up with you always wanting him to go to the mavs... it is getting old everyone knows already.. the question wasnt where should he go.. it is, what is his legacy after retirement.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2008, 07:08 PM
His numbers, all star apperances, etc will get him into the HOF. But he is an underachiever in my book. Easy response

Hawkeye15
10-05-2008, 07:09 PM
He shouldve never left Toronto but people will always see him as an underachiever but really the only thing that went wrong for him was the fact that he couldnt stay healthy. He was a great talent and despite what people think, he got the most out of his talent when he was completely healthy. After his injuries people wanted him to attack more not realizing thats what got him hurt in the first place, he altered his game and found ways to stay effective. At one point he was atop of the sporting world, the fact that he couldnt sustain that isnt entirely his fault so why fault him for it.

Easily a HOF caliber player but HOF is chosen by the dumbest of standards so he probably wont make it.

yeah right, the NBA HOF is the easiest to get into of all major sports. He will get there with his 23 ppg, and 10 all star games.

Chronz
10-05-2008, 07:11 PM
His numbers, all star apperances, etc will get him into the HOF. But he is an underachiever in my book. Easy response

OK since its the theme of the thread, what exactly did he fail to accomplish that we can put the underachiever tag in his resume? Every player has his shortcomings but what make VC's so glaring that he deserves such a distinguishing title..?

Hawkeye15
10-05-2008, 07:25 PM
OK since its the theme of the thread, what exactly did he fail to accomplish that we can put the underachiever tag in his resume? Every player has his shortcomings but what make VC's so glaring that he deserves such a distinguishing title..?

The fact that he doesn't play hard most of the time. The fact that here is a man, who could attack the rim at will, yet settles for jumpers. He won't play defense, rebound, and disappears for games at a time. All this with the physical talent of Kobe or LeBron. You can bring up injuries all you want. He and his cousin somehow are always hurt, yet they never go to the rim, or dive for a loose ball, so I find it hard to believe that they aren't just experiencing the same day to day soreness and pain that every other 35 mpg player faces. He is an underachiever. Plain and simple.

MAC10TIZZY
10-05-2008, 07:33 PM
heard he was ***** in real life, but if he went to a team like oh.......the magic.....he would ball out and definitely help bring us back to the finals...+

MAC10TIZZY
10-05-2008, 07:34 PM
all i said was the a word(UP THERE) and they bleeped it out. WIERD!!!!!!!!!

JIDsanity
10-05-2008, 09:09 PM
OK since its the theme of the thread, what exactly did he fail to accomplish that we can put the underachiever tag in his resume? Every player has his shortcomings but what make VC's so glaring that he deserves such a distinguishing title..?

Ignore Hawkeye, he disses every team, but Minni.

JIDsanity
10-05-2008, 09:12 PM
The fact that he doesn't play hard most of the time. The fact that here is a man, who could attack the rim at will, yet settles for jumpers. He won't play defense, rebound, and disappears for games at a time. All this with the physical talent of Kobe or LeBron. You can bring up injuries all you want. He and his cousin somehow are always hurt, yet they never go to the rim, or dive for a loose ball, so I find it hard to believe that they aren't just experiencing the same day to day soreness and pain that every other 35 mpg player faces. He is an underachiever. Plain and simple.

But he puts up the same numbers as he did when he attacked the rim. Your argument is weak. It's the same thing over and over with you. You have a one track mind. Your so cocky you think your always right. Get over yourself.

Chronz
10-05-2008, 09:26 PM
The fact that he doesn't play hard most of the time. The fact that here is a man, who could attack the rim at will, yet settles for jumpers.
Attacking the rim is what made him injury prone remember, isnt that what everyone says of Wade that he has to diversify his game. Its damned if you do, damned if you dont if thats what your arguing..



He won't play defense, rebound, and disappears for games at a time. All this with the physical talent of Kobe or LeBron.
Who says he doesnt defend(That never stopped Gervin from being an all-time great)? Hes a great rebounder, and its not that he disappears its that his teams rely on him more than most so when they fail to help him it only magnified his impact on the outcome of the game. The fact that hes not Kobe Bryant or LeBron doesnt mean hes not a great player so that doesnt really help your argument.



You can bring up injuries all you want. He and his cousin somehow are always hurt, yet they never go to the rim, or dive for a loose ball, so I find it hard to believe that they aren't just experiencing the same day to day soreness and pain that every other 35 mpg player faces.
This just in people, Tmac's bad back is his fault. Bill Walton and Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway are all underachievers, Larry Bird was weak because he never attacked the rim at will and let his bad back affect his play.


He is an underachiever. Plain and simple.
Clearly nothing is that cut and dry.

nickmacera
10-05-2008, 09:36 PM
1 word SUCK carter is a suck always has and always will he will never win anything

Hawkeye15
10-05-2008, 10:32 PM
But he puts up the same numbers as he did when he attacked the rim. Your argument is weak. It's the same thing over and over with you. You have a one track mind. Your so cocky you think your always right. Get over yourself.

If you seriously think Vince Carter was not capable of having a better career than he did, than you don't understand basketball. And I don't think I am always right. I have my opinions, that are based on so many hours of watching and following basketball that it is ridiculous, so I have a hard time being convinced otherwise. Now, there are many teams I don't follow all the time, I try to avoid some of those judgments. BUt I have seen Carter play his whole career. He could have been a lot better. That is all I am trying to say.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2008, 10:35 PM
Attacking the rim is what made him injury prone remember, isnt that what everyone says of Wade that he has to diversify his game. Its damned if you do, damned if you dont if thats what your arguing..



Who says he doesnt defend(That never stopped Gervin from being an all-time great)? Hes a great rebounder, and its not that he disappears its that his teams rely on him more than most so when they fail to help him it only magnified his impact on the outcome of the game. The fact that hes not Kobe Bryant or LeBron doesnt mean hes not a great player so that doesnt really help your argument.



This just in people, Tmac's bad back is his fault. Bill Walton and Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway are all underachievers, Larry Bird was weak because he never attacked the rim at will and let his bad back affect his play.


Clearly nothing is that cut and dry.


throwing Larry Bird, a top 3 player ever, in with those players is a joke bro. You're better than that. Wade has an excuse, he attacks. How are Vince and TMac always hurt? This is such a stupid argument. I think they both could have done better. You don't. Excuses and almost don't get it done. You either do, or you don't.

Chronz
10-05-2008, 11:02 PM
throwing Larry Bird, a top 3 player ever, in with those players is a joke bro. You're better than that.
Chop that up to your youth, you obviously werent getting the example, what do you think prevented Bird from reaching GOAT status and he definitely isnt top 3. His bad back crippled him, now by your logic thats his fault.


Wade has an excuse, he attacks. How are Vince and TMac always hurt?
Years of going all out is whats happened to them.


This is such a stupid argument. I think they both could have done better. You don't. Excuses and almost don't get it done. You either do, or you don't.

Its only a stupid argument because you cant answer any of the questions or come to grips with the reality of the situation. Feel free to disengage whenever you wish.

Chronz
10-05-2008, 11:05 PM
If you seriously think Vince Carter was not capable of having a better career than he did, than you don't understand basketball. And I don't think I am always right. I have my opinions, that are based on so many hours of watching and following basketball that it is ridiculous, so I have a hard time being convinced otherwise. Now, there are many teams I don't follow all the time, I try to avoid some of those judgments. BUt I have seen Carter play his whole career. He could have been a lot better. That is all I am trying to say.

People have always said that about every great player from Bird to Hakeem,Barkley to Wilt etc...

What matters is what theyve actually accomplished, not what you THINK they shouldve. Its a stupid argument because youve yet to even say what you expected from them regarding the game itself.

JJ_JKidd
10-05-2008, 11:33 PM
1. One of the most talented to play the game ever

2. Sadly, his EQ (drive, will etc.) doesnt equal his skill level.

JIDsanity
10-05-2008, 11:50 PM
1 word SUCK carter is a suck always has and always will he will never win anything

Your opinion is so valuable, especially since your a Raps fan. It means so much, I guess your not like the others. :rolleyes:

JIDsanity
10-05-2008, 11:51 PM
throwing Larry Bird, a top 3 player ever, in with those players is a joke bro. You're better than that. Wade has an excuse, he attacks. How are Vince and TMac always hurt? This is such a stupid argument. I think they both could have done better. You don't. Excuses and almost don't get it done. You either do, or you don't.

Did you read what you typed? :pity:

IversonIsKrazy
10-06-2008, 12:00 AM
he was great w/ tha raps, but kinda went down-hill since he left. he'll just not make hof, but will still be remembered as a very good player.

JayW_1023
10-06-2008, 08:04 AM
I think he just lacks the mentality to be the top dog on a basketball team. You saw in the Sydney Olympics he was much more comfortable, he had a mean streak there. That famous dunk over Frederic Weis will go down as the best in-game dunk of all time.

He would've been much better suited as the second or third option on a team...I think he would really be more effective and comfortable. His talent level is not the issue...it's always been a mentality thing for VC.

His years as a Raptor were a joy to watch...he made jaw dropping plays look easy. I think he deserves to be in the HOF...because he did things on the court no other players have ever done as well.

JordansBulls
10-06-2008, 10:46 AM
throwing Larry Bird, a top 3 player ever, in with those players is a joke bro. You're better than that. Wade has an excuse, he attacks. How are Vince and TMac always hurt? This is such a stupid argument. I think they both could have done better. You don't. Excuses and almost don't get it done. You either do, or you don't.

Bird is generally considered around 5 or 6 all time not top 3.

Ballah0liC1
10-06-2008, 11:40 AM
it pisses me off that his playoff flaws were all him its a team sport i u ppl didnt realize, every year he made the playoffs he stepped, michael jordan wasnt a one man team without pippen and rodman and kukoc or bench players stepping he would have never won so many championships and if you didnt know jordan didnt win a playoff game until 28,
and jordanbulls i like the quote on your sig "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" which just explains everything i wrote

Frank Costanza
10-06-2008, 11:50 AM
i dont disregard his talent, no i dont by any means, but this is a guy who lost something along time ago and he just isnt able to find it again. if you watch old videos of him dunking in games in toronto, hitting game winning shots, the look on his face, that fierce intensity has been no wehre to be found since his exit from toronto, He will be remembered as by far the best person to ever dunk a basketball, one of the most explosive first steps ever, one of the WORST franchaise players and teamates , not an easy player to coach(not as bad as the worst but not good) underacheived the second part of his career after a great start, injury proned, least tough individuals when it comes to WARRIOR mentality what it takes to be in the HOF are many of the quailities he once showed but now lacks, the dunking alone with career avgs might get him there but i dont think he deserves it anymore, ask me that quieston in 2002-2003 and its a while differnt story

JordansBulls
10-06-2008, 11:54 AM
it pisses me off that his playoff flaws were all him its a team sport i u ppl didnt realize, every year he made the playoffs he stepped, michael jordan wasnt a one man team without pippen and rodman and kukoc or bench players stepping he would have never won so many championships and if you didnt know jordan didnt win a playoff game until 28,
and jordanbulls i like the quote on your sig "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" which just explains everything i wrote

:confused:

He won a playoff game his rookie year. He won his first title at 28. What are you talking about?

Besides what does this have to do with any other player besides Vince Carter? Aren't we talking about him in this thread?

Ballah0liC1
10-06-2008, 12:24 PM
:confused:

He won a playoff game his rookie year. He won his first title at 28. What are you talking about?

Besides what does this have to do with any other player besides Vince Carter? Aren't we talking about him in this thread?

ok i meant to put he didnt win a chmp till 28, and i wasnt attacking you but im comparing the greatest player saying he had great teams even if they werent great which was never they all stepped up in the playoffs with vince carter nobody else steps up on his team and the same thing with tmac my favorite player u should know your always in the rockets forum

mjt20mik
10-06-2008, 02:29 PM
This thread is getting off topic. When it comes down to the bottom line, Carter will make the HOF (as hard as it is for me to say it, since I'm a Raps fan) because he has a pretty good resume that includes pretty solid numbers, multiple all-star sitings, and a pretty legit playoff career. What would seal the deal would be a championship, but I don't see that coming unless he is moved to a contender.

theuuord
10-06-2008, 02:43 PM
lol @ thinking Carter doesn't deserve the Hall of Fame.

Vince Carter is a great player who was unduly hated for his prime years and underappreciated by most fans who yell about how overrated he is so much that they actually made him underrated.

AFlagRules
10-06-2008, 02:51 PM
Everyone in Toronto will remember Vince Carter for not trying 100% every single night when things got down. We'll remember him for crying to much and for the quote "I don't want to dunk anymore"..

Ballah0liC1
10-06-2008, 04:57 PM
him dunking no more is kinda like ocho cinco not celebrating there gonna do it but not to the point of it messing with team aspect of ball

Hawkeye15
10-06-2008, 06:43 PM
Chop that up to your youth, you obviously werent getting the example, what do you think prevented Bird from reaching GOAT status and he definitely isnt top 3. His bad back crippled him, now by your logic thats his fault.


Years of going all out is whats happened to them.


Its only a stupid argument because you cant answer any of the questions or come to grips with the reality of the situation. Feel free to disengage whenever you wish.

wow dude. You are full of excuses. I am 33. I saw Bird play in his prime. The reason his back was bad, was he dove on the floor in day 1, training camp. He was the definition of a leader. Comparing VC to him is an insult to the game of basketball. What is your question? DOes Vince produce? Yes. Could he have done better? Hell yes. That is my point. Defend him all you want. Still can't avoid the fact that he doesn't play hard, and hasn't lived up to his potential.
ANd Larry Bird is a top 3 player ever. MJ, Magic, Larry. 1-2-3

Hawkeye15
10-06-2008, 06:44 PM
Bird is generally considered around 5 or 6 all time not top 3.

not by me brother. And regardless, VC isn't top 50 ever, so comparing him to Bird is laughable, at best.

Lakersfan2483
10-06-2008, 08:27 PM
Vince Carter is one of the biggest underachievers I have seen. He had so much talent and promise, but never lived up to his expectations.

Beno7500
10-06-2008, 08:29 PM
he will be just like t mac, an under achiever that is overrated

S.J.Basketball
10-06-2008, 08:30 PM
What will Vince Carter's legacy be after he retires? Is he an underachiever? Overrated? Should he be considered for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has accomplished thus far? What are your overall impressions of Vince Carter as a player?

Vince...Good player that never truly got over the hump. If he goes to the hall of fame for anything it should be for his dunking. That guy was ridiculous in his younger years....

S.J.Basketball
10-06-2008, 08:31 PM
wow dude. You are full of excuses. I am 33. I saw Bird play in his prime. The reason his back was bad, was he dove on the floor in day 1, training camp. He was the definition of a leader. Comparing VC to him is an insult to the game of basketball. What is your question? DOes Vince produce? Yes. Could he have done better? Hell yes. That is my point. Defend him all you want. Still can't avoid the fact that he doesn't play hard, and hasn't lived up to his potential.
ANd Larry Bird is a top 3 player ever. MJ, Magic, Larry. 1-2-3

:clap::clap:

RapsGuy23
10-06-2008, 09:06 PM
wow dude. You are full of excuses. I am 33. I saw Bird play in his prime. The reason his back was bad, was he dove on the floor in day 1, training camp. He was the definition of a leader. Comparing VC to him is an insult to the game of basketball. What is your question? DOes Vince produce? Yes. Could he have done better? Hell yes. That is my point. Defend him all you want. Still can't avoid the fact that he doesn't play hard, and hasn't lived up to his potential.
ANd Larry Bird is a top 3 player ever. MJ, Magic, Larry. 1-2-3

Yes Yes Yes. Agree ^^ The fact that Mj and Birds names were brought into the same conversation as vince carters is insulting. Those two player embodied and exemplified (IN SPADES) the very qualities that vince so gravely lacked..which prevented him from living up to his potential/ hof etc...

JayW_1023
10-06-2008, 09:07 PM
Must be hard being a 6'6 shooting guard from North Carolina in the wake of the Jordan era. Stackhouse got the same high expectations.

It's strange that so many players see MJ as an example yet seem to be totally oblivious of the mentality MJ set the standard for in the game of basketball.

agnine
10-07-2008, 12:12 AM
Need to know what people's idea of defense, hustle and clutch are. There aren't but a handful of defensive stoppers in the NBA, never have been more than that in any decade. Defense is played mostly on a team level, knowing that people will get by you and funneling them to the right big. Stepping into passing lanes or picking your opponents pocket is a skill that not everyone has, Vince as a 1.2 spg average for his career. Not everyone boasts that. I've seen Vince carry every team he's been on offensively since he was a rookie. As good as Kidd was in the open court and defensively, he can't shoot for ****. Jefferson got more touches and lost his desire for perimeter D, like Maggette in LA. As for injuries, if anyone truly thinks that knee injuries don't slow a player down, then THEY don't know basketball. Foot and knee injuries are the hardest to recover from and play through, yet Vince has done both. Twice he came back early from injury to try and help his team win a playoff berth. He's always wanted the ball at crunch time, making a high percentage of game winning or game tying shots. And whoever said he doesn't rebound, needs to check stats. Kobe, Garnett and Duncan are special players who's production should never be a measuring stick for others, cause it's hard for players to be that good. However, it's not easy to put up the production that Vince, McGrady, Pierce and others like them, put up on a nightly basis.

BTW, any Top 3 that excludes Chamberlain, must be from a casual basketball fan.

theuuord
10-07-2008, 12:32 AM
to repeat this point, has anyone noticed that you guys (and not JUST you guys, but everyone else as well) scream "VC IS SO OVERRATED" so much that you guys actually underrate him?

Just saying.

Chronz
10-07-2008, 04:40 AM
wow dude. You are full of excuses. I am 33.
Then you shouldve known what I was talking about


I saw Bird play in his prime. The reason his back was bad, was he dove on the floor in day 1, training camp.
LOL He did alot more than dive on the floor one day


He was the definition of a leader. Comparing VC to him is an insult to the game of basketball.
Take a deep breath and re-read the comparison, blaming a player for his injuries is irresponsible.


What is your question? DOes Vince produce? Yes. Could he have done better? Hell yes. That is my point.
Your point is unfounded and irrelevant, people always said that about all the all-time greats, what matters is what they actually accomplished.


Defend him all you want. Still can't avoid the fact that he doesn't play hard, and hasn't lived up to his potential.
Alot of great players dont fulfill 100% of their potential, it doesnt change the fact that they are great players, and if injuries are what prevented players from reaching a certain stage then I can blame them for that.



ANd Larry Bird is a top 3 player ever. MJ, Magic, Larry. 1-2-3
LMAO Your not 33, Bird wasnt top 3.

Chronz
10-07-2008, 04:42 AM
Yes Yes Yes. Agree ^^ The fact that Mj and Birds names were brought into the same conversation as vince carters is insulting. Those two player embodied and exemplified (IN SPADES) the very qualities that vince so gravely lacked..which prevented him from living up to his potential/ hof etc...
Then your just as ignorant, feel free to read my actual post and then comment

Hawkeye15
10-07-2008, 01:17 PM
Then you shouldve known what I was talking about


LOL He did alot more than dive on the floor one day


Take a deep breath and re-read the comparison, blaming a player for his injuries is irresponsible.


Your point is unfounded and irrelevant, people always said that about all the all-time greats, what matters is what they actually accomplished.


Alot of great players dont fulfill 100% of their potential, it doesnt change the fact that they are great players, and if injuries are what prevented players from reaching a certain stage then I can blame them for that.


LMAO Your not 33, Bird wasnt top 3.


Wow. Well, good luck winning with Vince. If he is so bad ***, NJ should have no problems. You are a pile of excuses, just like he is. Goodnight

JIDsanity
10-07-2008, 01:29 PM
Wow. Well, good luck winning with Vince. If he is so bad ***, NJ should have no problems. You are a pile of excuses, just like he is. Goodnight

He's not a Net fan

JIDsanity
10-07-2008, 01:35 PM
This is so ******** it's not worth arguing anymore. You got Hawkeye the biggest hater on PSD, Laker fans who are known to hate Carter, Raptor fans who are known to hate Carter, and Knick fans who are known to hate Carter. The opinons in this thread are so biased that this should be closed. In fact I vote that mo one can make another thread in regard to this, because the outcome is a reoccurring thing.

Hawkeye15
10-07-2008, 01:38 PM
This is so ******** it's not worth arguing anymore. You got Hawkeye the biggest hater on PSD, Laker fans who are known to hate Carter, Raptor fans who are known to hate Carter, and Knick fans who are known to hate Carter. The opinons in this thread are so biased that this should be closed. In fact I vote that mo one can make another thread in regard to this, because the outcome is a reoccurring thing.

:violin:
fine with me. my opinion on Carter is well known.

RapsGuy23
10-07-2008, 02:11 PM
This is so ******** it's not worth arguing anymore. You got Hawkeye the biggest hater on PSD, Laker fans who are known to hate Carter, Raptor fans who are known to hate Carter, and Knick fans who are known to hate Carter. The opinons in this thread are so biased that this should be closed. In fact I vote that mo one can make another thread in regard to this, because the outcome is a reoccurring thing.

You're a self-righteous little bugger aren't you cheif. It always seems as if you feel that you're "preaching the gospel truth" or providing some objective viewpoint that's has not been tainted by personal opinion or bias. I'm going to pencil you in at 16 or 17 years of age so I'll blame your hypocrisy on your youth as oppose to an overall lack of intelligence. Lets face it, what semi articulate, self respecting adult would begin a sentence with "this is so ********??

You are extremely out of touch. Think before you speak.

Chronz
10-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Wow. Well, good luck winning with Vince. If he is so bad ***, NJ should have no problems. You are a pile of excuses, just like he is. Goodnight
Cmon man your pulling a Vince Carter by calling it quits, seriously though the NJ Nets are going to have alot of problems what exactly does that have to do with what Vince did in his PRIME and how he played throughout it?

Hawkeye15
10-07-2008, 06:04 PM
Cmon man your pulling a Vince Carter by calling it quits, seriously though the NJ Nets are going to have alot of problems what exactly does that have to do with what Vince did in his PRIME and how he played throughout it?

I have already stated he is a HOF. I think he could have done a lot more with his career. Not once did I say he sucked. Never. I simply said, and will always say, he could have been better. I refuse to stick up for players that don't play hard. Period. Injuries don't cause you to loaf. If you don't think he could have been better, than you need to put down the stat books and articles, and watch him play a few games.

JIDsanity
10-07-2008, 06:16 PM
You're a self-righteous little bugger aren't you cheif. It always seems as if you feel that you're "preaching the gospel truth" or providing some objective viewpoint that's has not been tainted by personal opinion or bias. I'm going to pencil you in at 16 or 17 years of age so I'll blame your hypocrisy on your youth as oppose to an overall lack of intelligence. Lets face it, what semi articulate, self respecting adult would begin a sentence with "this is so ********??

You are extremely out of touch. Think before you speak.

Bet that made you feel real big. I'm actually 24, and this is a sports forum.
This is exactly what I mean about these Carter threads. What was the point of that?

dre1990
10-07-2008, 06:28 PM
under acheiver, but will be hofer has been 2 8 all star games

Kaptain Kanada
10-07-2008, 06:42 PM
Carter is always loved by the out of market fans that only see his highlights on Sports Center. I remember watching games in Toronto and he had 2 big dunks, decent points, and a lot of weak defence and whining... but on the highlight reel you only catch his big dunks and his points.

VC should be known as a career underacheiver. All the talent in the world, but no heart, no passion, no championships!

SaimoNETS
10-07-2008, 08:14 PM
VC haters

RapsGuy23
10-07-2008, 10:08 PM
Bet that made you feel real big. I'm actually 24, and this is a sports forum.
This is exactly what I mean about these Carter threads. What was the point of that?

I'm not even sure where to began so I won't. How about this, you're right and everyone else who doesn't share your view on Vince is biased and wrong.

Why I continue to respond to an individual who once told me that I wasn't allow to disagree with someone who's posted more than me I'll never know.

My initial post in response to this thread outlines my feelings towards Vince's career.

nithanyo
10-07-2008, 10:39 PM
If he stayed in Toronto and stopped being such a cry baby he could have been a hall of famer. Still love his game hate his attitude

ee
10-07-2008, 11:30 PM
He'll be in the likes of the Mitch Richmonds, Jamal Mashburn, Latrell Sprewell......Players who were big in their prime but didn't accomplish much but a few all star games.....Unless he magically turns it around his last few years....

JordansBulls
10-07-2008, 11:31 PM
He'll be in the likes of the Mitch Richmonds, Jamal Mashburn, Latrell Sprewell......Players who were big in their prime but accomplish much but a few all star games.....

I think he could be considered a tad better than them though.

ee
10-07-2008, 11:33 PM
I think he could be considered a tad better than them though.

hopefully, still one of the most exciting players to watch though.....;)

Chronz
10-08-2008, 01:13 AM
I have already stated he is a HOF. I think he could have done a lot more with his career. Not once did I say he sucked. Never. I simply said, and will always say, he could have been better. I refuse to stick up for players that don't play hard. Period. Injuries don't cause you to loaf. If you don't think he could have been better, than you need to put down the stat books and articles, and watch him play a few games.
Are you completely irrational? Where did I say he couldnt have been better? Ive been saying this whole time that plenty of people have said that about several of the all-time greatest players(Shaq, Bird, Hakeem, Wilt, Barkley the list is endless), my stance is what you THOUGHT he couldve done is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is what hes actually accomplished. And he didnt play hard because he wanted out, he wouldnt be the first great to do so, but hes definitely one of the few who admitted it. When Vince had something to play for and was in shape to do so, he was amazing, I wont let a few games for a franchise that couldnt surround him with talent shape my opinion of his career as a whole. Vince sacrificed several of his greatest years for that franchise and stuck around alot longer than most would, he shouldve never left because Bosh was the player he needed beside him but that was a long time coming.

And your always mentioning stats but show me one stat Ive used in this debate? Frankly I dont bring them out until the debate gets started but so far youve had trouble understanding my point. And honestly I find that most people who tell me to put the stats down and watch games to be the easiest debaters to demolish... its really like they try to set a precedent so that I dont bring them up later but it never works and those who say that usually dont know jack about stats.

JIDsanity
10-09-2008, 01:23 PM
I'm not even sure where to began so I won't. How about this, you're right and everyone else who doesn't share your view on Vince is biased and wrong.

Why I continue to respond to an individual who once told me that I wasn't allow to disagree with someone who's posted more than me I'll never know.

My initial post in response to this thread outlines my feelings towards Vince's career.

I think you were trying to say allowed. Past tense.

JIDsanity
10-09-2008, 01:24 PM
i'm not even sure where to began so i won't. How about this, you're right and everyone else who doesn't share your view on vince is biased and wrong.

Why i continue to respond to an individual who once told me that i wasn't allow to disagree with someone who's posted more than me i'll never know.

my initial post in response to this thread outlines my feelings towards vince's career.

ok

JIDsanity
10-09-2008, 01:25 PM
Are you completely irrational? Where did I say he couldnt have been better? Ive been saying this whole time that plenty of people have said that about several of the all-time greatest players(Shaq, Bird, Hakeem, Wilt, Barkley the list is endless), my stance is what you THOUGHT he couldve done is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is what hes actually accomplished. And he didnt play hard because he wanted out, he wouldnt be the first great to do so, but hes definitely one of the few who admitted it. When Vince had something to play for and was in shape to do so, he was amazing, I wont let a few games for a franchise that couldnt surround him with talent shape my opinion of his career as a whole. Vince sacrificed several of his greatest years for that franchise and stuck around alot longer than most would, he shouldve never left because Bosh was the player he needed beside him but that was a long time coming.

And your always mentioning stats but show me one stat Ive used in this debate? Frankly I dont bring them out until the debate gets started but so far youve had trouble understanding my point. And honestly I find that most people who tell me to put the stats down and watch games to be the easiest debaters to demolish... its really like they try to set a precedent so that I dont bring them up later but it never works and those who say that usually dont know jack about stats.
word

theuuord
10-09-2008, 02:15 PM
I have already stated he is a HOF. I think he could have done a lot more with his career. Not once did I say he sucked. Never. I simply said, and will always say, he could have been better. I refuse to stick up for players that don't play hard. Period. Injuries don't cause you to loaf. If you don't think he could have been better, than you need to put down the stat books and articles, and watch him play a few games.

No, you're right. I'm actually a computer. I live in my mom's (yeah, that's right, computers have moms too) basement. All I do with my life is stare at different websites looking for "basketball" stats on 0111011001100011, which is my language for "Vince Carter."

I have never watched an actual basketball game. Actually, I'm not sure what this "basketball" thing is. I think it has something to do with computer chips, since I've been programmed just to pay attention to it. That or clowns. Yeah. It's probably about clowns.


This is what I hate so much about these "watch the game" elitist anti-statheads. We do watch the games. I GO to games. I went to every Nets playoff home game last year. I watched LeBron step on the court and dominate my team every time he had a chance. I KNOW how basketball works.
I play on a college basketball team for chrissakes. We see what happens. I live and DIE with my team - and with the Nets. To act like people who pay attention to stats are just mindless, emotionless drones is to be the lowest common denominator of fan, and it just makes me sick.

Jesus, all looking at stats does is gives you MORE information. It lets you know about things you might have missed while watching the game. It's not like stats are just made up from thin air - they are a representation of what happens on the court.



Now, to the point: I've watched Vince Carter a lot since he came to the Nets. BELIEVE IT OR NOT. I, a so-called stathead (previous word dripping with steamy condescension), actually watch my team's games. And you know what I see? I see a star. I see a player that looks so effortless doing what he does that people see it as laziness. I see a player who essentially had one ankle last year play his heart out. I can barely WALK on one ankle, and Vince was the most productive player on the Nets. He was in the top 10% of basketball players in the best basketball league on the planet. That is remarkable.
I've seen him make dunks. I've seen him make game-winning threes from seemingly impossible distances. I've seen him do 360 layups with four defensive men around him.
I see a star.

And guess what?

The stats back it up.

ramansingh3
10-09-2008, 06:22 PM
What will Vince Carter's legacy be after he retires? Is he an underachiever? Overrated? Should he be considered for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has accomplished thus far? What are your overall impressions of Vince Carter as a player?

Hall of Famer no way unless he somehow wins a few rings. As a explosive guard and one of the best dunkers ever to play the game. A great player when he tries, he is very hard to guard.

Hawkeye15
10-09-2008, 07:28 PM
Are you completely irrational? Where did I say he couldnt have been better? Ive been saying this whole time that plenty of people have said that about several of the all-time greatest players(Shaq, Bird, Hakeem, Wilt, Barkley the list is endless), my stance is what you THOUGHT he couldve done is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is what hes actually accomplished. And he didnt play hard because he wanted out, he wouldnt be the first great to do so, but hes definitely one of the few who admitted it. When Vince had something to play for and was in shape to do so, he was amazing, I wont let a few games for a franchise that couldnt surround him with talent shape my opinion of his career as a whole. Vince sacrificed several of his greatest years for that franchise and stuck around alot longer than most would, he shouldve never left because Bosh was the player he needed beside him but that was a long time coming.

And your always mentioning stats but show me one stat Ive used in this debate? Frankly I dont bring them out until the debate gets started but so far youve had trouble understanding my point. And honestly I find that most people who tell me to put the stats down and watch games to be the easiest debaters to demolish... its really like they try to set a precedent so that I dont bring them up later but it never works and those who say that usually dont know jack about stats.

Stats support him being a great player. They are hollow stats. They mean nothing. He doesn't play hard. Period. You and you're personal attacks bro. If you think you are demolishing me, I beg to differ. If you want to continue to drink the VC koolaid, go right ahead. He is on the bottom end of superstars I would take to lead a team. You can have him. Nothing you can say will change my opinion. I don't care for guys like him, Derrick Coleman, Tim Thomas, or anyone who has unreal talent, and underperforms. I don't care what their bottom line numbers are. If you don't give 100% with the money they make, you don't deserve respect. How many ****ing times have I said, he will be in the HOF? A lot. I just don't respect the guy, and could care less about you're little personal attacks on this subject, or that Nets fan who obviously jerks off to a picture of VC dunking on someone 8 years ago.

JR-FIGHTER
10-10-2008, 03:06 AM
Vince carter has acomplished next to nothing in his career...but a few all star games and a dunk contest....maybe he could pull a gary payton or pj brown and go to a contending team further in his career...

JIDsanity
10-10-2008, 11:21 AM
Stats support him being a great player. They are hollow stats. They mean nothing. He doesn't play hard. Period. You and you're personal attacks bro. If you think you are demolishing me, I beg to differ. If you want to continue to drink the VC koolaid, go right ahead. He is on the bottom end of superstars I would take to lead a team. You can have him. Nothing you can say will change my opinion. I don't care for guys like him, Derrick Coleman, Tim Thomas, or anyone who has unreal talent, and underperforms. I don't care what their bottom line numbers are. If you don't give 100% with the money they make, you don't deserve respect. How many ****ing times have I said, he will be in the HOF? A lot. I just don't respect the guy, and could care less about you're little personal attacks on this subject, or that Nets fan who obviously jerks off to a picture of VC dunking on someone 8 years ago.

He's not a Nets fan as I already stated, and that comment was unnecessary. If you don't respect him that's fine, but you keep stating that he underperformed, as VC admitted to doing in Toronto. That's in the past, and it's a sin to hold grudges.

Chronz
10-10-2008, 09:08 PM
Stats support him being a great player. They are hollow stats. They mean nothing.
What makes you think they are any different than anyone else?


He doesn't play hard. Period.
Lets pretend you have a point, the fact that hes this good without playing "hard" shows how great he is, thus proving my point.


You and you're personal attacks bro.
Which one?


If you think you are demolishing me, I beg to differ.
Either learn to read or figure out ways of better comprehending my point:

MY EXACT WORDS: And honestly I find that most people who tell me to put the stats down and watch games to be the easiest debaters to demolish

I NEVER said I was demolishing YOU, so either Im in your head or your just a tad slow upstairs.


If you want to continue to drink the VC koolaid, go right ahead
Will it come with a slice of swiss Al Jefferson cheese?


He is on the bottom end of superstars I would take to lead a team. You can have him. Nothing you can say will change my opinion. I don't care for guys like him, Derrick Coleman, Tim Thomas,
Yes because obviously Vince is in that group of players......


or anyone who has unreal talent, and underperforms.
Again it doesnt matter what you THOUGHT they shouldve done, but what they ACTUALLY accomplish, and Vince for all his flaws was a great player, and will go down underappreciated because of how his marriage with Toronto ended.


I don't care what their bottom line numbers are.
Obviously you wont care, you havent shown me a reason why your opinion on statistics should be valued anyways. All youve been telling me is to throw my stats outta the argument but Ive yet to use any, your pre-emptive attacks are pointless... can we move on already...


If you don't give 100% with the money they make, you don't deserve respect.
If money factors into your decision of what makes a player I wouldnt want your respect.


How many ****ing times have I said, he will be in the HOF? A lot. I just don't respect the guy, and could care less about you're little personal attacks on this subject,
Please stop crying to me, what personal attacks? Why do you keep bringing up the HOF? We both agreed he would get into the HOF, its really not a telling sign of how great a player is.


or that Nets fan who obviously jerks off to a picture of VC dunking on someone 8 years ago.
Realistically wouldnt a Nets fan jerk off to a picture of Vince dunking when he played for the NETS. Good attempt at trying to sound witty though. :clap:

Chronz
10-10-2008, 09:12 PM
He's not a Nets fan as I already stated, and that comment was unnecessary. If you don't respect him that's fine, but you keep stating that he underperformed, as VC admitted to doing in Toronto. That's in the past, and it's a sin to hold grudges.

Im pretty sure he was talking about you, or theuuord, its hard keeping track he doesnt really specify. Vagueness is a sign of indecision, or hes not putting much thinking effort into his responses.

alexander_37
10-10-2008, 09:32 PM
VC is probably the greatest dunker ever or 2nd to MJ

idk HOF is iffy

canzano55
10-10-2008, 11:05 PM
Vince "was" (and I emphasize the word was) a great player but his career has been anything but great.

Getting right to the guts of it; when your specialty is living above the rim, if you can't maintain that in your late 20's then there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach to the game.

Basically Vince already peaked at age 26 when traditionally HOF players peak in their early 30's. Bottom line is Vince was never going to have a fulfilling career because he never took the proper measures in training to ensure that his body would sustain the brunt of physical trials over a 10 year period.

He was doomed from the get-go because he never put in the time that was needed to sustain his overall game.

Unfortunately he will live out his NBA days in some mediocre team so he can keep his 12 million and retire as a player that gave the world memorable highlights but constantly dwelled in obscurity.

JIDsanity
10-10-2008, 11:20 PM
What makes you think they are any different than anyone else?


Lets pretend you have a point, the fact that hes this good without playing "hard" shows how great he is, thus proving my point.


Which one?


Either learn to read or figure out ways of better comprehending my point:

MY EXACT WORDS: And honestly I find that most people who tell me to put the stats down and watch games to be the easiest debaters to demolish

I NEVER said I was demolishing YOU, so either Im in your head or your just a tad slow upstairs.


Will it come with a slice of swiss Al Jefferson cheese?


Yes because obviously Vince is in that group of players......


Again it doesnt matter what you THOUGHT they shouldve done, but what they ACTUALLY accomplish, and Vince for all his flaws was a great player, and will go down underappreciated because of how his marriage with Toronto ended.


Obviously you wont care, you havent shown me a reason why your opinion on statistics should be valued anyways. All youve been telling me is to throw my stats outta the argument but Ive yet to use any, your pre-emptive attacks are pointless... can we move on already...


If money factors into your decision of what makes a player I wouldnt want your respect.


Please stop crying to me, what personal attacks? Why do you keep bringing up the HOF? We both agreed he would get into the HOF, its really not a telling sign of how great a player is.


Realistically wouldnt a Nets fan jerk off to a picture of Vince dunking when he played for the NETS. Good attempt at trying to sound witty though. :clap:

pwned

JIDsanity
10-10-2008, 11:22 PM
Vince "was" (and I emphasize the word was) a great player but his career has been anything but great.

Getting right to the guts of it; when your specialty is living above the rim, if you can't maintain that in your late 20's then there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach to the game.

Basically Vince already peaked at age 26 when traditionally HOF players peak in their early 30's. Bottom line is Vince was never going to have a fulfilling career because he never took the proper measures in training to ensure that his body would sustain the brunt of physical trials over a 10 year period.

He was doomed from the get-go because he never put in the time that was needed to sustain his overall game.

Unfortunately he will live out his NBA days in some mediocre team so he can keep his 12 million and retire as a player that gave the world memorable highlights but constantly dwelled in obscurity.
:shrug: last time I checked 21, 6 and 5 were great #'s for a NBA player. That's what he did last season. If he got so much worst then I fear what he was when he was younger.

GunFactor187
10-10-2008, 11:57 PM
An underachieving All-Star dunker.

Chronz
10-11-2008, 05:20 AM
Vince "was" (and I emphasize the word was) a great player but his career has been anything but great.

Getting right to the guts of it; when your specialty is living above the rim, if you can't maintain that in your late 20's then there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach to the game.

Injuries took a toll on him, the man's actual skill set is great. What do you mean he couldnt maintain his living above the rim in your late 20's, thats when players begin to lose their jumps, its the dreaded 30 and even then Vince still has some above average hops.


Basically Vince already peaked at age 26 when traditionally HOF players peak in their early 30's. Bottom line is Vince was never going to have a fulfilling career because he never took the proper measures in training to ensure that his body would sustain the brunt of physical trials over a 10 year period.
Yea he peaked early but he had a slight resurrection in his first half stint in New Jersey, and are you sure about that traditional HOF'ers. There are ALOT of players in the HOF.


He was doomed from the get-go because he never put in the time that was needed to sustain his overall game.

Then why is he still performing at a high level? Hes incredibly skilled, and a great set shooter.



Unfortunately he will live out his NBA days in some mediocre team so he can keep his 12 million and retire as a player that gave the world memorable highlights but constantly dwelled in obscurity.
We shall see, it really doesnt change who he WAS at his BEST.

canzano55
10-11-2008, 12:57 PM
:shrug: last time I checked 21, 6 and 5 were great #'s for a NBA player. That's what he did last season. If he got so much worst then I fear what he was when he was younger.21 points a game is great, but when you're taking most of the shots on a respectively bad team then how is last year and the year before a fair measuring stick?


Injuries took a toll on him, the man's actual skill set is great. What do you mean he couldnt maintain his living above the rim in your late 20's, thats when players begin to lose their jumps, its the dreaded 30 and even then Vince still has some above average hops.His skill set revolved around the obscene air time that he had but once his hops vanished - against good double teams he takes very poor shots.

Granted in the lane he's a very good assist man but now that people realize Carter is a more linear player these days defenders don't play him as close as they used to because they know Carter is afraid of attacking the rim.


Then why is he still performing at a high level? Hes incredibly skilled, and a great set shooter. This made me laugh and I'll tell you why. Vince Carter in all his glory is the only active player that insists on taking fade-away three pointers. Any other player in the league regardless of their star-status would be prohibited from such a reckless approach to the game but because Vince is "Mr. Amazing" he gets away with it every time. I mean what would you think of a player that only thrived on the perimeter when there's a hand in his face but when wide open he can't make a field goal consistently if his life depended on it.

He's a cocky shooter and that attitude is what makes the difference between the Ray Allen and Vince Carters of the world.


We shall see, it really doesnt change who he WAS at his BEST.My point is who he was at his best didn't last very long at all.

Chronz
10-11-2008, 04:44 PM
Ill only respond to those that were directed at me



His skill set revolved around the obscene air time that he had but once his hops vanished - against good double teams he takes very poor shots.
The fact that he still requires double teaming is enough, and you may find them to be poor shots but on a team devoid of players that can create their own look its a higher percentage shot than you think. And overall hes not a ball hog so its not like hes a cancerous chucker.


Granted in the lane he's a very good assist man but now that people realize Carter is a more linear player these days defenders don't play him as close as they used to because they know Carter is afraid of attacking the rim.
Its not that hes scared, its that hes incapable of finishing the way he USED to, and if they dont play him close he burns them with a jumper. Hes still versatile enough to score EFFICIENTLY


This made me laugh and I'll tell you why. Vince Carter in all his glory is the only active player that insists on taking fade-away three pointers.
Funny that made me laugh because its so ridiculous, look man this is a serious argument so please argue with FACTS, he doesnt take fadeaway 3's.


Any other player in the league regardless of their star-status would be prohibited from such a reckless approach to the game but because Vince is "Mr. Amazing" he gets away with it every time.
What are you talking about, when has he gotten away with it?


I mean what would you think of a player that only thrived on the perimeter when there's a hand in his face but when wide open he can't make a field goal consistently if his life depended on it.

Hes a great set shooter, if he didnt have to create every look for himself this would be a more obvious fact.


He's a cocky shooter and that attitude is what makes the difference between the Ray Allen and Vince Carters of the world.

VC is no Ray Allen when it comes to shooting, last I checked nobody is. Hard to take that as a diss when its Ray FREAKING Allen


My point is who he was at his best didn't last very long at all.

His best was cut short due to injuries, thats not his fault. It was a result of his reckless style of play, he changed his game and found ways to regain some of his luster, he deserves respect for developing his all-around game.

Zefflin
10-11-2008, 04:51 PM
He might make the HOF...his career is far from over.

I'd be surprised if they make the playoffs next year.

kelkath
10-11-2008, 04:54 PM
He is an underachiever, but he will be a Hall Of Fame player. If he could have only maximized his ability, he could have led Raptors and the Nets in a Finals game, especially with the Nets.

He has J KIDD and Jefferson on his side but he could not take advantage of it.

Nets fan 93
10-11-2008, 04:58 PM
Why do all you people think he doesnt try hard? Everytime I watched he played decent D, allways doing the dirty things like diving for loose balls knocking it out of bounds... you guys are homers. Maybe Toronto was different but it makes me laugh that you guys think you know so much when you really dont...

Chronz
10-11-2008, 05:02 PM
He is an underachiever, but he will be a Hall Of Fame player. If he could have only maximized his ability, he could have led Raptors and the Nets in a Finals game, especially with the Nets.

He has J KIDD and Jefferson on his side but he could not take advantage of it.

He did take advantage, thats why they were as good as they were, unless you think a team with zero quality bigmen could compete at the ultimate level, Im starting to see a trend here. Those who have been saying hes underachieved expected the impossible, FINALS? Are you serious man, some of you need a reality check

Nets fan 93
10-11-2008, 05:04 PM
He did take advantage, thats why they were as good as they were, unless you think a team with zero quality bigmen could compete at the ultimate level, Im starting to see a trend here. Those who have been saying hes underachieved expected the impossible, FINALS? Are you serious man, some of you need a reality check
Great point... back then a young Kristc and a no offense Jason Collins is basically nothing

RoyalG333
10-11-2008, 05:30 PM
super talented
underachiever
wussy


unless of course he wins a championship.

RapsGuy23
10-11-2008, 05:44 PM
I think you were trying to say allowed. Past tense.



Thanks Chief!!!! I know I can count on your wisdom when I need it most. I bet you think my comments are "********". ******** this ******** that....Oh Chief how you make me laugh. Your comments take me on a journey back to high-school where simpler minds prevail.

You silly little feller you! Please, PLEASE don't stop commenting. Your insight is a blessing to all of us.

Peoples champ, you.....enough said!!!

(PS: In this message there is at least one grammatical error, can you spot it? Can you spots more than one error?)

RapsGuy23
10-11-2008, 05:45 PM
Nets fans + Vince Carter = Circle Jerk

Nets fan 93
10-11-2008, 05:47 PM
^Wow... your so cool!
:pity:

kelkath
10-11-2008, 06:18 PM
nets fans + vince carter = circle jerk

lol

kelkath
10-11-2008, 06:21 PM
thanks chief!!!! I know i can count on your wisdom when i need it most. I bet you think my comments are "********". ******** this ******** that....oh chief how you make me laugh. Your comments take me on a journey back to high-school where simpler minds prevail.

You silly little feller you! Please, please don't stop commenting. Your insight is a blessing to all of us.

Peoples champ, you.....enough said!!!

(ps: In this message there is at least one grammatical error, can you spot it? Can you spots more than one error?)

lol

JIDsanity
10-11-2008, 06:27 PM
Thanks Chief!!!! I know I can count on your wisdom when I need it most. I bet you think my comments are "********". ******** this ******** that....Oh Chief how you make me laugh. Your comments take me on a journey back to high-school where simpler minds prevail.

You silly little feller you! Please, PLEASE don't stop commenting. Your insight is a blessing to all of us.

Peoples champ, you.....enough said!!!

(PS: In this message there is at least one grammatical error, can you spot it? Can you spots more than one error?)

Your welcome.
When did I say your comments were ********? Not my fault you used incorrect english.

kelkath
10-11-2008, 06:31 PM
He did take advantage, thats why they were as good as they were, unless you think a team with zero quality bigmen could compete at the ultimate level, Im starting to see a trend here. Those who have been saying hes underachieved expected the impossible, FINALS? Are you serious man, some of you need a reality check

With what VC achieved over the years as an NBA player, I think that the only way he can be a HOF player is to be in the Finals.

If you don't agree with me, too bad, I'm not going to reply to your answer. That is just my humble opinion.

JIDsanity
10-11-2008, 06:32 PM
Nets fans + Vince Carter = Circle Jerk

Yep that's what I'm doing right now. Mr. "Lets face it, what semi articulate, self respecting adult would begin a sentence with "this is so ********??"" I added a quote at the end of your sentence, because you forgot it on your initial post.

JIDsanity
10-11-2008, 06:32 PM
With what VC achieved over the years as an NBA player, I think that the only way he can be a HOF player is to be in the Finals.

If you don't agree with me, too bad, I'm not going to reply to your answer. That is just my humble opinion.

kool

RapsGuy23
10-11-2008, 07:20 PM
Yep that's what I doing right now. Mr. "Lets face it, what semi articulate, self respecting adult would begin a sentence with "this is so ********??"" I added a quote at the end of your sentence, because you forgot it on your initial post.

Oh Chief, when will you learn? I want you to read aloud the bolded comment ^ you wrote. Do you see what I'm getting at here or do I need to elaborate?

Are you feeling grumpy? Is it past your bed time?

I came prepared for a battle of wits but was saddened to see my opponent came unarmed.

Nets fan 93
10-11-2008, 07:35 PM
Oh Chief, when will you learn? I want you to read aloud the bolded comment ^ you wrote. Do you see what I'm getting at here or do I need to elaborate?

Are you feeling grumpy? Is it past your bed time?

I came prepared for a battle of wits but was saddened to see my opponent came unarmed.
Shut up and get over the fact VC left the way he did... you seriously need to shut up

bogdanrom
10-11-2008, 07:38 PM
I think he has underachieved a little. Sometimes he seems like he's not giving 100% and I'm not talking about when the game is over or something like that. It would be a heated close game and he seems to just zone out. But if he wins a couple of titles he'll probably be in the HOF. Also he's one of the most if not the most athletically gifted basketball players ever.

JIDsanity
10-11-2008, 07:45 PM
Oh Chief, when will you learn? I want you to read aloud the bolded comment ^ you wrote. Do you see what I'm getting at here or do I need to elaborate?

Are you feeling grumpy? Is it past your bed time?

I came prepared for a battle of wits but was saddened to see my opponent came unarmed.

Yeah, but don't tell on me.
You came prepared for a battle of wits in a sports forum? :rolleyes: Right......

Nets fan 93
10-11-2008, 07:48 PM
yeah, but don't tell on me.
You came prepared for a battle of wits in a sports forum? :rolleyes: Right......
lol

GCOOKIE7
10-11-2008, 07:48 PM
All i can say is when the raps took the Nets out of playoff contention last year Vince and RJ were smiling and making jokes. Vince has no drive or determination. He left the Raps cuz he didn't feel like rebuilding and now look at the Nets..... rebuilding.
He's a lazy player and he will never be in the NBA Hall Of Fame.

JIDsanity
10-11-2008, 07:52 PM
All i can say is when the raps took the Nets out of playoff contention last year Vince and RJ were smiling and making jokes. Vince has no drive or determination. He left the Raps cuz he didn't feel like rebuilding and now look at the Nets..... rebuilding.
He's a lazy player and he will never be in the NBA Hall Of Fame.

Ok Poon Pounder

JIDsanity
10-11-2008, 08:17 PM
Oh Chief, when will you learn? I want you to read aloud the bolded comment ^ you wrote. Do you see what I'm getting at here or do I need to elaborate?

Thanks for letting me know. I edited it for your sake. Have fun reading it as you please... Chief

Chronz
10-11-2008, 10:59 PM
With what VC achieved over the years as an NBA player, I think that the only way he can be a HOF player is to be in the Finals.

If you don't agree with me, too bad, I'm not going to reply to your answer. That is just my humble opinion.

Thinking he shouldve led a HIS New Jersey team to the Finals isnt a humble opinion. Too bad? LOL For whom?

RapsGuy23
10-12-2008, 11:09 AM
Shut up and get over the fact VC left the way he did... you seriously need to shut up

Tisk tisk Chief, no need to be so harsh.

We're so far away from the original discussion of this forum...

RapsGuy23
10-12-2008, 11:10 AM
Thanks for letting me know. I edited it for your sake. Have fun reading it as you please... Chief

Ahahahha....You actually edited it. Do you know what it is to be patrinized?

RapsGuy23
10-12-2008, 11:12 AM
lol

I see you drove head first back into the circle jerk. You boys just cannot get enough of each other!

I can see future secret santas in the making.

Nets fan 93
10-12-2008, 01:19 PM
Tisk tisk Chief, no need to be so harsh.

We're so far away from the original discussion of this forum...
aww, i'm sorry i was so harsh...:p

1. I am not a chief
2. Get over the fact Vince didnt like Toronto, Like I would understand if you were still upset if a family member left you but VC doing what he did to the raps was nothing compared to what other on this earth has done... Get over it people it is a sport.

RapsGuy23
10-12-2008, 02:16 PM
[QUOTE=Nets fan 93;6972877]aww, i'm sorry i was so harsh...:p

1. I am not a chief
2. Get over the fact Vince didnt like Toronto, Like I would understand if you were still upset if a family member left you but VC doing what he did to the raps was nothing compared to what other on this earth has done... Get over it people it is a sport.[/QUOTE

Ok Chief sounds good. Perhaps a quick proof read would be beneficial ^^.

The manner in which Vince left toronto certainly speaks to his character. It also provides a glimpse into a professional athlete who is a clear underacheiver (an underacheiver in the sense of what he could have been and what he has produced so far in his career). What frustrates me about Vince is not that he left toronto, but rather that when he was there (in the later years in TO) he didn't give it his all....he underacheived....he even addmitted it himself.

Nets fan 93
10-12-2008, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=Nets fan 93;6972877]aww, i'm sorry i was so harsh...:p

1. I am not a chief
2. Get over the fact Vince didnt like Toronto, Like I would understand if you were still upset if a family member left you but VC doing what he did to the raps was nothing compared to what other on this earth has done... Get over it people it is a sport.[/QUOTE

Ok Chief sounds good. Perhaps a quick proof read would be beneficial ^^.

The manner in which Vince left toronto certainly speaks to his character. It also provides a glimpse into a professional athlete who is a clear underacheiver (an underacheiver in the sense of what he could have been and what he has produced so far in his career). What frustrates me about Vince is not that he left toronto, but rather that when he was there (in the later years in TO) he didn't give it his all....he underacheived....he even addmitted it himself.
Aww he didnt give it his all... My god again who cares? You have a decent team now dont ya? He is the reason you ave a 20-10 big... why do you all STILL care?

canzano55
10-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Ill only respond to those that were directed at me


The fact that he still requires double teaming is enough, and you may find them to be poor shots but on a team devoid of players that can create their own look its a higher percentage shot than you think. And overall hes not a ball hog so its not like hes a cancerous chucker.


Its not that hes scared, its that hes incapable of finishing the way he USED to, and if they dont play him close he burns them with a jumper. Hes still versatile enough to score EFFICIENTLY


Funny that made me laugh because its so ridiculous, look man this is a serious argument so please argue with FACTS, he doesnt take fadeaway 3's.


What are you talking about, when has he gotten away with it?


Hes a great set shooter, if he didnt have to create every look for himself this would be a more obvious fact.


VC is no Ray Allen when it comes to shooting, last I checked nobody is. Hard to take that as a diss when its Ray FREAKING Allen


His best was cut short due to injuries, thats not his fault. It was a result of his reckless style of play, he changed his game and found ways to regain some of his luster, he deserves respect for developing his all-around game.
Arguing all your points isn't needed because on a fundamental level you seem to agree with me.

Yes - VC has made efforts to round out his OFFENSIVE game (because his defense like everybody knows is non-existent) but ultimately he's more of a liability especially when his shot isn't falling because he simply can't attack the rim with any kind of consistency. When a player like Vince who was regarded as one of the greatest dunkers of all time and makes 12 million a year can barley take it to the lane anymore is a travesty.

Bottom line is his new look game sucks and its a shame he couldn't build it sooner because injuries were going to be an eventuality with kind of reckless approach he had for so many years.

Nets fan 93
10-12-2008, 05:42 PM
VC looked good today with some clutch free throws!

UofA
10-13-2008, 12:17 AM
I think he'll be remembered as a good player, but also remembered for how much more potential he could have reached but his work ethic cost him